Vortex of Opportunity with Sean and Cass

(upbeat music) ♪ Oh, you are an inch evening ♪ ♪ I don't know where you're coming from ♪ ♪ Oh, you are an inch dream ♪ ♪ I tell the world ♪ ♪ You'll sing the change now ♪ ♪ I tell the world what's wrong with your heart ♪ ♪ I can name ♪ ♪ I tell the world ♪ ♪ Welcome to Synchronicity ♪ ♪ An amazing guest-zuh ♪ Episode this week with Sean and Cass from the Very Eight Podcast. Sean and Cass are really my best friends. I don't know how to more clearly say that. They're the coolest people ever. We were planning a lot of cool live stuff in the works of it and doing our own show. That's gonna be coming back on.

I'm feeling alright when we're hanging out. You're here at the beginning of this one. It's kind of inevitable. But they're the best. Go check out all their stuff before, I mean listen, I'm telling you at the beginning of a podcast, it's not the best place to put a call to action to help people to do stuff. It'll be on the flip side. There's links on this podcast. But Very Eight.TV, it's a place worth checking out. Go check out their YouTube. They subscribe to their YouTube. They're putting out a ton of stuff. There may even be video of the second part of this podcast, which is gonna be on their podcast.

So this is part one. And they were doing part two over there. So yeah, it's fucking, they're the coolest. You're getting this a day early. That's how cool they are. I was like, I can't hold on to this shit. It's a fucking cracker. It's a corker. It's gotta let it fucking out into the ether. So that's why you're getting it. How have things been? Today has been a real gnarly day for me. It's worked out well because I remember that every difficult energy, challenging energy comes with it. It comes with an amazing lesson and some cool thing. And I don't think that is like some psychopathic person who's like, oh, you're gonna want the good stuff.

And someone's hitting me in the face. No, I mean, I get it. So I woke up today and I got kind of triggered. Someone I reached out to to be on the podcast. So here's the thing. I almost never ask people to be on the show. I just don't do it. I used to do it when I had guests all the time, but now it just kind of happens. But sometimes I'll have an inkling. I'll be like, you know what? This person's cool. So I reached out to this person and I was like, I can't wait for them to get back to me. It's gonna be great. Just 'cause I thought there was a friend. No pressure, no big deal. And then I kind of got the energy that I was getting ghosted a little bit.

Getting kind of the brush off. And I'm like, what the fuck is that? I'm not used to that. Didn't think much of it yesterday. Woke up this morning, saw a tweet, got triggered. Luckily of a partner who helps fucking work through this shit with me. Ego flared up. How dare they, how dare they do this to me? How dare they know who I am? And this whole fucking thing started to rage. And it like really started to like bring up some issues of insecurity, you know, abandonment, reliability, trust. And I think the main thing is, is when these things come up is to recognize the line of what's your energy, what's not your energy, but here's why it really doesn't matter.

Let's say this person, let's say this energy isn't mine at all. I feel great almost all the time. When left to my own device is I feel fucking amazing, right? So I kind of know what my energetic signature is, dominant energetic signature is. But when something like this comes in, I can get confused 'cause I reflect people's energy really efficiently and cool. So if they're putting out some energy of insecurity or ego issues or anything like that, I reflect it back and I can even pick up on it and then start thinking it's me. This is something you do if you're empathic or you're just really picking up on shit.

But here's why it doesn't actually matter outside of just kind of the fun subtleties of how this stuff works. Let's say I'm picking up on this person's energy. Or maybe they view me as a challenge or me as someone who is taking information, they're disseminating and doing it in a different way and maybe getting a better response or just maybe in their mind changing what the actual core meaning is or being too cavalier about how imagination is God and everyone's God, right? Maybe they're doing that, right? That's still incumbent on me to change that energy and basically be like, you know what? That's not a big deal.

They're just presenting a version of themselves that's kind of defensive and kind of egoic. It's no big deal. Everyone wants attention. Everyone wants to be loved into love. So it's still incumbent on me to kind of deal with that energy. Now, let's say it's just my energy. Let's say I'm a fucking lunatic and I am not psychic and I don't pick up on people's subtle intentions and what their dominant energetic signatures are. Let's say I'm just totally fucking crazy. It's still my responsibility to deal with that. So that's the trick there. It doesn't ultimately matter who's doing what to you 'cause ultimately it wasn't being really clear.

It's you doing this to yourself. You are literally co-creating these situations with everyone else to pull out these lessons and I don't know, I'm bringing it up because I don't want you guys to think here that especially during this Venus retrograde, especially as the world seemingly out there spirals out and we'll of course talk about what's going on with the rioting and the protesting and the social unrest and all of this stuff in this episode. We didn't skirt over that at all. You know, my Sean's ready to burn the whole fucking system down, we're obviously going to talk about it. But there's a lot of shit going on right now and these all present really good opportunities for us to figure out what we're showing ourselves in front of our faces in this world and that can be an interpersonal relationship where your feelings get hurt.

That can be something where you feel like you've been tragically wronged. That could be looking out in the world and seeing someone get their neck pinned down by police and having an insurmountable feeling of rage that you can't get over and that can be expressed in any variety of ways. One of the things that we're going to be talking about in the solo cast next week is the differential, the difference between on one hand discernment and forcefulness and the other rage and aggression, right? That, that isn't like that. Those are, that's a really important thing and we'll get into that more and next week when we go into that.

But essentially, just watch yourself. That's all I'm saying. Just watch yourself. If you get triggered and pushed over the edge of something that's objectively wrong, you're getting an opportunity. It's not to bury your head in the sand and not pay attention to what's going on. That's certainly not the lesson. But if you're not balanced and you don't approach injustices, objective injustices with balance and equanimity, you're not going to get the results you want. And like, you know, people can be like, "Yeah, that's being a pussy. "We got to burn shit down. "This shit is all fucked up. "We got to go in there."

Like with torches, that's cool. There are people who absolutely are supposed to do that, but the people who are supposed to do that are really balanced. They're really chill. They're not filled with rage and anger because you're more liable to make a mistake, do something unskillful to actually hinder and hurt your cause. So anyway, I don't want to get too much into that. I just want you to know, of course, I'm thinking about it. I'm not blind to what's going on in the world. I don't want to think that imagination is, you don't pay attention to what's going on around you, right? If it's being presented in your face, don't shy away.

Ultimately, you'll hear me talk about this in the episode, very optimistic about the future. This seems like a purge, a catalyst that is really pushing us towards something that to be honest, I know is pretty fucking amazing. So stay tuned for that in reality. Okay, I've rambled on enough. Information about Patreon and readings. On the flip side of this podcast, you can check me out at syncpodcast.com, Instagram, Twitter, all that stuff. That's it, go check out Sean and Cass everywhere you can fucking find him. There'll be links on this show, notes, page, and other places. Okay, Jesus, oh, how could I almost forget?

It's June. That means the wonderful people that Ned are gonna send me money for talking about their stuff because it's good and they're cool and I love them and you do. I got paid $12,000 to write that song. So go buy in some Ned stuff. It's really good, full spectrum CBD. Go to hello Ned.com. Use the code sink, S-Y-N-C at checkout. You get 15% off, whatever you order. They got a lot of new stuff there. The website is new, it looks great. The truth is, CBD is good. Get that divine feminine in ya, however you can. Whether you can smoke the good old THC, mix with the CBD, or whether you need to use CBD drops 'cause you've got some aches and pains or whatever it is.

I don't know, I don't take breaks and pains. I just do it to get in touch with weed, right? Go check it out, their full spectrum hemp oil is the only full spectrum hemp oil I use. That sounds like a made up fucking line, but it's actually true. Go ask anyone I know. I fucking shunned CBD. For so I smoke a lot of weed, what do I need CBD for? What the fuck do I need? I don't need that smoke. I don't need this shit. But then I spoke to the guys and they told me what was up. They sent me their shit and they're incredibly nice. They play binaural beats to their plants. They love their plants. They love their community that they're building.

They're cool fucking people. Go check out the episode I did with them. Rhett and Adrienne. So hello, Ned.com, use the code sink, S-Y-N-C. Check out Get 15% Off Your Order. Plus I magically bless this stuff with my imagination. So it's a catalyst for waking up, whatever. Cool, all right. Without further ado, officially, here are my dear friends, Sean and Cass. ♪ Shout out to get people, shout out to get people ♪ ♪ Shout out to get people, shout out to get people ♪ ♪ Shout out to get people, shout out to get people ♪ ♪ Shout out to get people, shout out to get people ♪ ♪ Get people who'll tell me what I gotta say ♪ ♪ That's just true, I don't know what to do ♪ ♪ I just know that I'll say it with a number to play ♪ ♪ And I'll say it for a moment ♪ ♪ When you don't have a body ♪ ♪ Easy young to fly around ♪ ♪ And you know that time doesn't really exist ♪ ♪ Outside of your mind ♪ ♪ And when you don't have a body firm ♪ ♪ You see this clearly here ♪ ♪ And when you relate to it ♪ ♪ Time doesn't exist ♪ ♪ Have a good time, okay ♪ ♪ Okay ♪ ♪ All right ♪ ♪ Make another car, make the star go up your mind ♪ ♪ Ow ♪ ♪ Ow ♪ ♪ 'Cause I was going through my mind ♪ ♪ Gotta do another time, ow ♪ ♪ Do another line of time ♪ ♪ Do another line of time ♪ ♪ Do another line of time ♪ (upbeat music)

I think this is just sign that we have to come visit you and be together in person. This is ridiculous.

Well, I mean, also like, to be clear, it's so fucking cool up here.

Yeah, yeah, we really wanna get up there. We have a couple ideas for like little summer adventures we could have.

Yeah, man, like it's really cool. Like this place is, there's a solarium. It's literally by the river. And it's like, it's fucking, the only crazy thing is, is there was a cop who committed suicide on the dock. He was involved in some internal investigation thing.

Whoa.

Dude, I was here. Okay, you don't even--

Wait, Wally, you've been living there?

Yeah, yeah, Ryan Cliff is the weirdest place. It's like, I have two addresses, by the way. I'm 21 Charles Street and I'm three Hutton Street. It's like, I'm both, but I'm neither. And like, I have to have this PO box, but the guy was gonna get me the PO box at the post office, died. We went there the other day. This dude I met, who's been working there for 20 years, now dead.

Whoa.

And this cop committed suicide after this internal investigations affair and a drugs. He just killed himself in the dock right down here.

Like with a gun.

She is fucking, I don't know how he did it. They didn't publish it, but I just remember being here one day and seeing all this commotion. I've never seen this many cop cars, like a movie. And then I walked outside, asked, you know, a neighbor what was going on. He's like, "Ah, it was a suicide."

Whoa.

That's fucking, no one said it was a cop. I didn't know what was going on. And then it came out. I was on ketamine and nitrous a few nights later. And a friend of ours has a news app that like updates shit that goes on and basically was like, "Hey, this cop committed suicide. "This must have been what it was down by Ryan Cliff." Anyway, it's weird up here. It's what I'm saying. It's like first small sleepy town. There's been some real big mysteries.

Sounds like a twilight zone or something.

Don't get caught up in a mystery, man. Just, just--

No, no, no, I already, just, I know, I trust you. (laughing) I already have the same thoughts. Listen, I found out all of this on ketamine. So like, I already went to like all timelines, or I'm like, do I really want to get wrapped up in a fucking, you know, murder mystery?

Dude, we were--

It is weird.

The other night we were doing ketamine and this is probably like, since we've started doing it, maybe like the seventh batch we've ever tried, like different kind we've ever tried, no two have ever been alike. And, I mean, I can't describe it. I did one line and I was like, I was scared, you know? I was like, "Whoa, I can't imagine never doing this again." 'Cause we've been treading lightly with the ketamine and like, it just hit me and I was like, "Whoa, I can't imagine never doing this again. "This is crazy." Like, I was scared, I felt very, very alone. I felt very real, but like psychedelic and healing too.

And gas was happening in opposite--

Isn't it interesting?

Isn't it interesting? I think like, different energies that like, pass through in linear time onto our planet and duality interface with where we are energetically. So at different times, like, I've also noticed like, I can be feeling really good. And then like, all of a sudden, like, I'll just have a regular, a teeny little amount of ketamine and I'll be walloped into like this other dimension of like, what the fuck is going on? And then sometimes, I'll be like, you know what? I feel weird, let me just do a little ketamine and then like, there'll be this nervousness that comes up like, I shouldn't, which is weird.

You know, if like, there's times where you just, all you wanna do is ketamine. It's like a wonderful, fun thing to do. And it'll jolt me out of this. I really do think it's like alchemy. It pops us out of our bodies. And what we do and what we learn there is like, critically useful information for what we can like, use energetically in this world. I know in like five to 10 years, like everyone, like most people in reality will be looking at ketamine and like, whoa, this is some really transformative medicine that we have here that, yeah, it's fucking something.

It's out there right now, but they're just overcharging for it. You need thousands of dollars to get what we get for hundreds of dollars, you know?

And like the settings that I hear and how they're presented in New York and LA, like that's the last place I would ever, like sometimes like I'll be here, like I was thinking of doing it like today. And I was like, you know what? The vibe is a little bit off. And the vibe here is amazing. You couldn't be better have all my music stuff. I have my guitar, but I was like, you know what? It doesn't feel energetically appropriate right now. So the idea that you're gonna just walk into a clinic with a doctor and a lab coat and they're gonna nail that energy. Even if they're a great therapist or like, I don't like the word healer, but someone who can hold space for healing to occur, I don't know how replicable that is.

And I just feel like, yeah, it's like a real powerful, I think it's alchemy. I mean, I was at your guys' place when that, that kind of like got that download, which was like the Greeks started talking to me about how this is alchemy and, yeah.

Yeah, I think it's what is a really important thing is to kind of take the power back in the way that we all learn to hold space for each other better so that we can have these adventures and we can launch further and further into space. 'Cause I don't know, doctors, and like there's a lot of training, obviously, that would be great for holding space. But, you know, we also could just be really good friends for each other where it's like, oh, don't worry. Nothing's gonna happen to your body. We're gonna be just fine. You can surf the cosmos and I got your back, you know. It'd be cool if we could become a ketamine clinic in our apartment.

I think you already are, number one. I was your first like guinea pig there. I just remember getting off the plane from LA once, or was it right before I went? I don't even know. - Before you went?

No, I think I just got, yeah, God. It was just, and I remember like, what the fuck? And then I got on a plane and I was like, what the fuck just happened? 'Cause that, remember those nights, and I think this speaks to what you're talking about, like the environment where you feel safest and most comfortable and I'm like, 'cause you go to some weird, like the other night, I was with a group of other people, and man, I was in two major K holes, but like in a good way, but I was out there and there was just like, I had my shuffle on, and like Fiona Apple songs are coming on, and I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

But like, when you know that like, this happens to me with nitrous sometimes, you ever notice like, this happens to me almost all the time with nitrous. The people I'm around, if there's like a dissonant energy, I immediately like get attracted to it and kind of have to like, smooth it out energetically. It literally feels like something like, (groans) and like, it's a very quick process, but if you have that safety and like comfort, you can go to like, the farthest out places and you come back, and you come back to like, your baseline of like, peace and grace and whatever it is, but--

Some of the farthest out I've ever gone in my life has involved nitrous, and I've just very recently come to very much respect that drug, and you know, we have that giant tank, and I just like, I literally just like, keep it tucked away, so we're like, it's not in my sight, 'cause like, that's my thing, like, I don't really have a problem with anything if I'm not looking at it, but if I'm like, looking--

If you're in your field of vision.

Yeah, I'm like, if I'm looking at like, like Rape and the pipes and everything, I'm gonna probably do it every day, but if I just put it away, it's like, it doesn't even matter. If I'm looking at a pile of tobacco, I'm gonna want to mix it into my joints, but if it's not around, I don't even think twice about it, you know, so--

I kind of like, I think I'm somewhere in the middle with that type of stuff, like, I have this thing that happens, I noticed it with food first, where like, if I go and get groceries, like, if I'm really hungry and I buy a bunch of groceries, when I get home and I have all the shit, I'm not hungry anymore, just like knowing I have it, like somehow satiated, whatever the itch was, rather than the hunger. So I guess like I have, I really like don't judge my tendencies, I guess, especially with drugs, because if I would've maintained the pace of initial ketamine use, like through today, like from when I started, yeah, I would've been like, oh my God, you have a problem.

But like, there are times, like, I won't touch it for a very long period of time and only in small doses, 'cause I'm like, you know, it doesn't feel like I need it right now. So like, I just kind of trust those cycles. I also feel like when we judge ourselves for habitual use, it actually strengthens that pattern of using, 'cause we're not getting the message there. Like tobacco, like, I also watch my resistance to stuff, like, especially tobacco, 'cause it's a cleanser, it's a purifier, it gets you to a baseline sometimes, but if you overuse it and become reliant on it, it's obviously, it loses its power and kind of beneficial aspects.

But yeah, I mean, I think people just are like playing around and having fun, and if you have that approach, you kind of fall into the natural patterns of these things, whether it's food or drugs or sex or love or like whatever it is, like, yeah.

Well, as long as you're doing it consciously, that's what it feels like for me. It's really easy because we do everything together, it's not like, I'm trying to sneak ketamine behind Cass's back or like, you know, or I don't want her to know that, like, I just did Rape, or like, like, we usually do everything together and like, we're encouraging of it, but like, we try to do it so consciously that it's like wrapped in ritual, even if it's just like us taking a moment to just like, say a prayer of protection and say like, okay, you know, like the other night I prayed to have fun and I had the opposite.

Yeah.

So you never know, but just taking that time and reminding yourself like, okay, I'm taking something that's about to take me really far out and I'm just remembering right now that I'm taking this and I want to take it and I want it to take me to a certain place and please--

Yeah, you already laid it out.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's the truth is like, you already laid this stuff out. I mean, I really do look at ourselves here as we're just running out the script that we were given by ourselves in a higher dimension, which is like a fancy way of saying like, you're just running a program here. It feels like we have, we do have, and I don't want to freak people out. It's not like you don't have this ability to modulate and direct to where you're going to go in the future or your relationship to the past. It's just, we have way less control than we think we do here with our conscious minds and like the genuine power of what we're doing is just below the surface most of the time.

When we take a psychedelics or ketamine or dissociatives or get into like a meditative state or just like blissful, you can get glimpses and start building a bridge, which is super useful, but like it's, I think people would be having lived in a psychedelic state, like overtly, like a very high-pitched one in my early 20s for like months at a time. It's overwhelming, like for me it was overwhelming and I'm weird as fuck, like I really have gone out, like you guys know this weird fucking like shaman time stuff out of nowhere. That was like my reality all of the time. Most people will go what is the finest psychotic, they'll just break from consensus reality and not know how to find their way back.

So like it's, but that is more accurate. That's more real, like this conception of linear time and how it's stretched out and everything. That's not, that's not really the real deal. It's just this game we're playing and it's important to kind of kind of remember that. Yeah.

Fuck man, we just lost you for a second there, but.

I know you were saying great stuff.

I know, it's okay. I have it from my end, you just have to piece it together. Luckily, we're recording locally.

It's funny when you record locally and you go to put these things back together, you forget there was even gaps in there. So it just seems like Cas and I are acting weird, you know.

I know. It's one of the fucking downsides of this digital stuff, but I mean, I don't know, like well, I'm sure we'll see each other pretty soon.

Oh yeah, yeah, totally. One of the ideas I was having, I was like, man, who would do this with us and I think you'd be the perfect person is like, I wanna, I don't feel like I'm due for like a heavy acid trip where we'd take it at like 8 p.m. And stay up all night and creep around the city and like, no one's out and just like, see what's doing, trip out, fucking go hang out a little bit. I'm craving one of those and I was like, no, it would do that with us, that'd be fun.

I would do that, some of my best times have been in urban areas on acid.

Oh yeah.

It's like, maybe we could do a seance on your pier and see what happened with that guy.

Yeah.

There are some dead people energy here. It's something real, real weird, every time, that's why I don't do, I think that's probably why I'm not doing drugs here. I smoke weed, but I don't haven't done any drugs here, really.

Oh, interesting.

Like I just, just 'cause I feel like you gotta be ready for that. I mean, did I tell you guys what happened when I went to LA and fucking dead baby energy came through? Like this girl's, oh my God. I keep it all anonymous, but you know, she was like, don't tell anyone about this. But okay, when I went to LA the last time when I was there for a month, I was up in Laurel Canyon. And Laurel Canyon, you know, there's like a storied history of, you know, what's going on. And I feel like you guys cut out, I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna wait. Did I cut out again?

No, you're fine.

Okay, great.

Move into you can like see.

All right, we'll just keep moving. All right, so Laurel Canyon, so Laurel Canyon, I was at this place and I met this dude one day. I had like a weird roommate there. It was his Airbnb. And this dude came in from jogging and I had just finished jogging. And immediately out of nowhere, somehow, I haven't recorded, it was up on Patreon. I put this thing. We just started talking about ketamine. Out of fucking blue. Just out of the blue. And this dude was like a really interesting guy. Interior designer really accomplished me. These amazing art at a like plaster. It was just like really accomplished musician.

I was like, who is this anomaly? Who lives on the top of Laurel Canyon? Like I was pretty high up there, but this is like the top. So I went, he's like, come over to my place. Like I had this like really nice sound system. You know, we can do some ketamine. I'm like, all right. That kind of sounds fun. So I go there and there are these two girls there. One is his roommate and one is his girl from visiting out of town. Very nice people, just chill. You know, like mid to late 30s, just regular people. And I had my cards with me, my tarot cards. And he was like, do a reading. And the vibe in the room got real different.

Like I know when people, so to back this up, like most people when they come to me for a reading are either friends. So they know what to expect. So they're open and they know who I am. Or they're paying me a sizable amount of money. So that barrier of like, I trust this person is already like, you're giving me money. You kind of trust me. But when you're doing it in kind of a context like that, people don't know what to expect. They don't know if I'm a huckster. They don't know what my intentions are. They don't know if some weird shit's gonna happen. But the whole vibe changed in the room. And I'm like, what's going on?

And I'll preface this while I also saying the whole day I was getting this like pressure right near my neck. Like right here. And like in the past, I used to be like, oh, there's something physically wrong with me. But I've learned to distinguish between what I call dead people pressure, which is literally like there's some connection to the other world. And like I've had it happen and it's fucking foolproof. And I fight this shit just to be clear. Like I actively try not to talk about this stuff, not to experience it just because it's like it's intense. But anyway, this is going on the whole day.

And I'm like, what the fuck is this is so weird. I was talking to Denise, talking to just like everyone I knew to see if there was any connection. But just to see if something came up naturally, I never, you know, asked questions over it. But anyway, so I'm reading this, this tarot thing, I'm about to read it. And I was gonna do it for this dude. But her, his roommate, she was being really weird about it. And she's like, you know what happened? The last time we did this. And I'm like, what do you, what does that mean? What happened last time? And so they start telling me they did a tarot reading and a poltergeist through something across the fucking room, like a lamp.

And they all saw it. And like you could tell this wasn't a ruse. Like they were all there. They had all seen some crazy shit, something flew off the thing. And I was like, fuck, weird. I was like, well, are you okay if I do the reading? So I started doing this reading. And it was pretty basic. I think it was like a three card spread. And she was being like, not super cagey, but I could tell she was holding something back. And I'm like, listen, I don't be weird about this, but it feels like there's some dead people energy. Like for real, like going on here, like for real. I don't know who it's related to.

I can't figure it out in the room. Like I'm not great at this. I don't do this for a living. This shit is weird. I acknowledge that. And she started getting like real odd about it. And she's like, you know, I had a older sibling who died when I was younger, you know, like before I was born. She was the older one and she died. Like right after birth. And she was strangled by the umbilical cord. And when she said that, this pain like flared up around my neck where it had been. And everyone in the room was like, what the fuck is going on? Like everyone got chills and was this thing. And so like we basically deduced that she was holding on.

This energy had like clung to her, but she didn't want to let it go because she felt like if she like exorcised, 'cause she thought I was trying to like exercise a demon or something like be gone. Like be gone, you like fucking ghost lady, like leave her alone. She's like, no, this is my sister. Like I love her. And this reading basically like laid out in the weirdest of terms that like she was gonna meet someone, have a kid with this person. And that kid was gonna be the same energy of her older sister who didn't incarnate. And like the whole vibe of the room, you could see it like smoothing out.

But like that's the type of shit that if you don't approach it kind of with this open mind and like energetically sensitive, you will never get to that point. You know what I mean? Like there wouldn't be a tarot spread that brought up that, you know she had to add, I would have had this weird pain that would have lined up with it. But like you can tell when it locks into place like that. So I'm pretty sensitive when it comes to like, you know like doing drugs that kind of dissolve you around this type of energy. But it does get you in touch with dead people. I mean, I know that. I know ketamine and dissociatives.

It's definitely some ancestral shit. Like I know that for sure.

Well, 'cause it takes you like just far enough for me at least where it's like I'm not in the story of Sean anymore. So, you know I believe that we are and will be everyone that's ever incarnated. And like this is just my turn to be Sean. But like I've already been everyone and everyone that ever will be. So it just takes you slightly out of the story of Sean. So you might be able to connect with one of your very near relatives that died or whatever, but I've definitely tapped into that energy. And like I mean, it spooks you, you know, because it takes you into like this uncomfortable new plane of reality where you could be in touch with that kind of thing.

And that kind of shatters some previous conceptions of what this world was that made you feel safe here. For me at least.

Yes.

Yeah, and I think that's good. I think that is usually inevitably followed by the acceptance, right? And just the allowance of like that feeling. And I think that's an important thing because that's pretty accurate. I like, I always love this "choke" I'm trunk book quote which is, you know, the bad news is you're falling through the air. There's no parachute. The good news is there's no ground. It's like you're good. It's like you're free falling for sure, but like there's no ground that's gonna come up and smack you. It can certainly feel like that sometimes. You can create those situations, but I don't know.

I find it, we were also noobs.

Yeah.

All of us to dissociatives like that. Like we really are like, and I don't forget that, but I mean, I've seen now people who have done it for a very long time, 20 plus years in some cases. And their experience is you see this collective arc. You know, what they're doing now, it seems different. Even if it's the same stuff, even if it was better or more pure or more strong, there's something that happens when you kind of dissolve yourself out. And like you said, sometimes you have the intention of having like a fun, silly time and you get fucking, boom, there's some other energy that wants to show up and say hi.

Yeah, yeah. Well, especially when it's just Cas and I, because it's like it's a little bit more of a free for all. Like I could go anywhere. For some reason when there was big groups of us over here and we're like, oh, let's put on the ween show in the background and like just zone out. I was like, I really, very much felt like we were all surfing the same wave, you know?

Yeah, 'cause it's the energy that's like showing up, right? - Yeah.

Well, what were you saying about people who have done it for a long time? What do you, can you finish that thought?

I've just heard like, yeah, I've just heard like a lot of different experiences. Like people who use it as an escape, like any other drug, people who have had profoundly negative experiences where it makes them desensitize to this world, to the point where they crave physical, like people, there's sort of stories of like people like hitting themselves of like trying to feel something 'cause they get in this weird loop, it feels like a dissociation. I've heard, you know, when I went to LA, a lot of people, my roommate there, it wasn't, you know, he owned the place. He was in the back, but like he had a real bad relation.

He kept trying to caution me about how bad it was. I'm like, dude, I think I got it. Like I think I get for you, it was a thing. But like for me, like this is, I take this like all drugs like ritualistically and like pretty, not seriously, but I honor it. Like I recognize this isn't me just, even if it is having a fun, silly time, like it's something potent there. But yeah, I mean, it's a club drug. Like that's when I first became aware of ketamine like heavily like impacting something I cared about was the music I really enjoyed. There has been several waves of it where it takes over kind of the club scene and like, you know, you guys know what it's like to be on ketamine, you're not dancing.

You're not dancing around, you know, maybe in your mind you are, you're fucking like, yeah, you're like, you know, so you'd notice people in the club who all of a sudden snorton doing a little bumpk and then they start kind of doing this weird ketamine shuffle. So like that's what you're gonna want. But like to me, I would never think to do ketamine on the dance floor. Like that to me is just like such a ridiculous way of doing it because I just can't go to the places I feel like it wants to like show me or I want to show myself if I have to worry about like locomotion, you know what I mean? Like that's, let me lose that one for a little bit.

It's just not a good club, really. There's no real way to pull that off and have it look good. And when you're, when you truly do get into that sacred place of the K-hole, you don't want to be standing up or around people. I'm sure that doesn't look very good either, you know? You want to go away. You want to be in a safe place where if someone like, you know, if you go out and you're not off, you're not going to slam your head on the table or someone can hold you up, you know what I mean? Like that's, I appreciate like it's, but I mean done in the right setting, I mean, it's just truly, it's one of the best things I think.

And like we also saw that what, a curious Corona. I joke, but there is the clinical study that says that it legitimately was helping with the war symptoms of COVID, which to me makes perfect sense. COVID, crown chakra, crown virus, spiritual wisdom. You know, I really think like, if you can latch onto some of these potent wisdom, this new reality that's always been there, but it's emerging that our consciousness really creates what we perceive out here. That's not for everyone to ride and make it look amazing. Some people ride that and get knocked off. Some people don't want to be on that ride at all.

They want to get off the ride, so.

Yeah.

I think ketamine is something that really prepares people. If they do want to ride that wave and have it look amazing, I think King of Cups. Ketamine feels like Big King of Cups.

Whoa, interesting, that was a card that we pulled the other night before our little odyssey, right?

That's my card. That's one of my strongest. I love that I identify with that card quite a bit. You're in the deep waters. You got the throne and the waters, you're floating. It's so cool. - Yeah, yeah. We like being in the deep waters. I mean, I think that's what life's all about. Like that free fall, that learning to swim in the deep end, that like just trying to surf the waves, at least trying as they come. And yeah, like you're saying, like, I don't know. I think we're all kind of, we're finding our legs. Like we're definitely having to assimilate to a new reality. Very quickly. - Yeah.

Right now. And not everyone is going to make that look good. I think a lot of people are going to look like toddlers. And I'm noticing a lot. Like I just, right before we got on here, I had to get it out of my system. So I didn't make this so much about that. But like, I had to be like, yo, I'm so disappointed in my community right now. Like, I just think that there's a lot of phoniness being exposed because this is the fight. This is like, we're in it now, we're doing it. And it's time to do it. And it's time to use our powers. And it's time to have an opinion. And it's time to let that opinion be known.

It's time to learn how to listen and learn how to adjust to this thing. And I'm just seeing people that are just much, much, much more concerned with their comfort than learning the truth about what solidarity really is. So I'm having a hard time right now.

That's a big spiritual lesson for everyone on every side of that perspective, right? There's this comfort versus equality, notion. I don't think, I think it's a false thing. I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I really do envision a world, like as corny as this sounds, given my beliefs, you know it's true, like what Martin Luther King Jr. spoke about as his dream, I believe is a world in which we eventually move to. This is the same idea of Shambhala or an enlightened Buddhist society or any like utopian vision where like people are like, hey, you know, fucking being difference of skin is the most rudimentary and ridiculous thing to separate us.

So of course that's not a thing. So I believe we're moving to that place no matter what. Now, what that doesn't mean is we just move there with no action. - Yeah.

But I think the only action that people can truly take is to go inside themselves and stabilize that stuff. I think we see enough evidence. And like I was talking this over with Denise the other day in the morning because I really try to figure out the place for righteous anger, power, forcefulness, which I believe are very important things and aggression. The fine line between those like really understanding like this is wrong, I'm using my power of discernment to see this is wrong. It's like me with Trump. Like when Trump is like, I don't get his like angry, I don't read, I don't see the dog whistles that a lot of other people say.

When he says forcefulness, that's just his approach to life. I don't see it as overtly racist. I understand all the arguments that could be saying that like this is clear indication that he is a racist person. You see how he were active with the central part five. Like this has always been part of his DNA going back to his father. I see that, but I see him as playing a role that provides a spectrum for other people to react to. And they're given an opportunity of how to best do that. I'm not someone who believes in completely non violent protests in the sense that there's never like actual violence committed in this world.

That's not realistic. It's not how this duality works for people. But it has to come from this place of balance because that's where real power is. When it tips over into emotions, not like emotions are a bad thing, but when it tips over into like judgment or anger, like how dare these people or how could they do that? Or, you know, karmic karma being this thing that like validates and someone doing something fucked up. So they had something bad happen. And then I saw this with the crossbow guy who got beat up and was lying about it. It's like, don't fall for the layer one and level one ruse of what that is.

There's some real cosmic fucking opportunities and lessons being presented here. And yeah, I mean, I think all of this is a testing ground for people who want to shape a new reality that's based on that sense of equality and fairness. And I do think just related to like the 3D politics of it, I've always said this as much as I can. I incarnated as a straight white male with a tremendous amount. Like I understand things, I'm smart, I can communicate to lots of different people. Like I don't take that for granted. Like I, you know, the people who I've, you know, like blue and all these other people, they come from completely different places.

So I recognize that as a place of privilege, but I also know intuitively at this point in my life, I'm not supposed to be out there protesting with people. I'm not supposed to be on the streets. I did that in high school. I protested at the Supreme Court when Bush beat Gore in a shaky Supreme Court decision. Like it's not my vibe. Like I'm more effective figuring out how to make myself right now the master of my universe and then effectively teaching other people how to do that. And of course, a lot of that is going to have to do with people going out there and protesting. Like I'm getting involved in activism.

So it's not denying anyone's reality. But, you know, I see this shit boil over so quickly from like righteous anger at an injustice to people taking an opportunity to just like, it's not like I care about target or property so much, but like, I don't want people taking advantage of a situation, don't co-op the situation for racial injustice, which is a legitimate objective problem and conflate it with like blowing up something 'cause you're angry or getting mad at something 'cause you're angry 'cause it just, it doubles back on each other. So that's kind of where I am with all this stuff. But I mean, it's going to get so much crazier just to be clear, like in the next six months, three to six months, it's going to be nuts.

The US has a record incoming. Pluto return, death, reincarnation, change. So much energy is getting resurfaced. It's like think of like all these dead Indians, Indians, Native Americans, all these dead slaves, all these dead like white people who didn't report like immigrants, all getting like their graves or getting like dug up to the top and they're like zombifying. That's basically what we're being asked to move through right now and you gotta be cool, calm and collected about it 'cause otherwise, man, it's easy again.

Well, I mean, the way I've been thinking about it lately is like, you know, like when you take ayahuasca or you go far out on ketamine or acid or whatever, it's like, it's an invitation into the shadow realm and to learn lessons there and figure out how to integrate them is one of the most sacred honors that you have as a human being and we're collectively right now as America, we've been resensitized by this quarantine and we have this beautiful invitation where we're all on George Floyd's death and being invited into the shadow realm and so many people wanna fucking just plug their ears and say, no, this isn't happening.

Peace and love, peace and love, kumbaya, kumbaya and I've just never seen more spiritual bypass and spiritual and intellectual gymnastics to justify a lack of action and to justify a lack of moving your heart to a place where you're like the only thing that we can demand is systemic change. The only thing we can demand is an end to police and an end to prison and end to the military industrial complex and really just like kind of like growing a spine and going there because like this, like I feel like we're such a powerful community and to see so many people like roll over in this time. It's like, yo, our brothers and sisters need us.

We've been doing all this work to show up and I see so many people fucking retreating into their own comforts and it's like, this ain't gonna be comfortable. No revolution has not had bloodshed. Let's be there for our brothers and sisters. Let's use our powers. Whatever happened to fucking putting hexes on people. We know how to do that, you know what I mean? Let's fucking do what we can do to help our brothers and sisters who don't have the privilege to avoid the reckoning the way we do. They're on the front lines of the reckoning. So that's where it just really, it enlives me and I feel like I'm a voice within our community to say like, yo, politics and spirituality are not separate.

Those are things that you need to have a revolution of your soul, figure out who the fuck you are and say who side you're on through this thing because it's gonna be a long hard fight and we gotta figure out who the fucking enemy is and what the enemy is and how to fight it properly and it's not people. That's the whole thing. I think people get very confused when we say we're anti cops or abolish police. That ain't about some guy with a job. That's about an institution that needs to go. Don't get it confused. Don't get confused that target is people. It's not, that's a corporation. These are algorithms that are playing out.

These are systems that are poison. So you, I don't know, to me, you work to dismantle those systems and it's all rooted in capitalism. So that's what we're here to do.

So my view of all of this stuff is everything exists. Every possible timeline, every possible iteration of everything exists. So our job is to do is pick the one that we would like to see out pictured and move to that timeline, ideally with the people we love and care about 'cause that's the fun game that this world is. And do it in a fun, happy way. I don't know that the idea that there is some systemic enemy, whether it's nebulous, energetic, parasitic, I hear a lot in kind of the galactic terms of how this stuff works. That's kind of, I feel like that, that's a very specific path towards cutting through this shit and changing it.

But the easier one is just selecting that vision of reality. Using, whether it's a Neville Goddard or some other technique I learned something, very interesting about Marcus Garvey and who was most likely Neville Goddard's teacher today. And he was very much involved and kind of got involved with Marcus Garvey, who's a black dude, he's Ethiopian too. Very interesting stuff. But basically selecting that reality where this shit doesn't, where the prison system doesn't look like this, selecting it in our minds, in our imaginations, knowing that that is what we will experience. If we experience it there, then it's true.

And then letting it play out. That way when we see this shit flash out in front of our eyes, we go, okay, fuck, Jesus Christ, this is crazy. But I know this is a necessary step that gets us one step closer to here. My only action is to maintain that perspective and viewpoint. And whether that involves me going out and protesting, throwing a brick through a fucking bank of America, whatever it is, or just making art, recording podcasts, making music, whatever my function is, I know I will naturally fall into it. I think if everyone does that, they serve their role and it doesn't feel at odds with what they're supposed to be doing.

Like there are people who are supposed to be on the mother fucking front lines as white people as black people as black people, whatever it is for their particular cause. Sometimes regardless of gender or fucking race has nothing to do with that, what they believe in, no one should be telling them don't go and express your discomfort and discernment here, but just make sure that it's not boiling over into something. I mean, capitalism to me is, it's just a system, it's just a word, it's a collection of things that we say is this and this is how it works. There's an element of greed that is seeped into that particular system, but to me rather than trying to completely abolish that greed, have it be agreed for love?

Have it be agreed for making the planet more, a better place environmentally? You can actually shift the energy of that, that's a cool hat by the way, I just saw it, that shift the energy of the system towards a more benevolent goal. That's the subversive trick. Rather than trying to blow up the death star by getting in close and hitting the specific spot, which is totally valuable. How do we shift these companies or people or ideas and that, oh, it's only so much of the pie, it's a scarcity model, that's how it works. How do we show them, that's not even true and you can even be more wealthy and abundant.

And if you wanna be the 1% of people who have special Lamborghinis, but it's not at the expense of other people, go for it, you can have cool shit and everyone has to have the same beige suit on, just whatever you want, but it doesn't need to harm other people as the motive. And I feel like that's what we're shifting into, it just probably will take like 20 years, which will seem like infinity for most of us. No, I think it's simple, it's like the goal is to transcend class, it's to end inequality. And I don't know, yeah, people wanna use it, but a private property is totally something that we worship in this country.

That's a whole different thing than your personal possessions. So I think that the world that we're trying to shift to empowers more people, it empowers the workers, it empowers, it ends class structures. And I think that the police are just such a beautiful and omnipresent example of how poison the thing. You know, well, that's the thing, it's not poison. And the thing I think that's really disturbing to people and where I'm butting heads with people in the spiritual community who just wanna say, look, the cops took a knee, we're back to peace and love, it's kumbaya time. And I'm like-- - That's bullshit, that's bullshit.

I'm like, no, you don't understand what's going on here. I don't think you fully can wrap your head around how deep this goes. And that this, what just happened with George Floyd is the system functioning perfectly and that it's not flawed. And that this is actually, we're living in peak perfection of capitalism. This is what happens. This is the way that the battle lines are drawn and this is what happens. So when people start to come around to that form of consciousness that like, no, this, all the death destruction, greed, all this shit that you see that you want an end to is actually the system functioning perfectly.

It makes you stand in solidarity with the people who wanna take this thing down and make completely new systems to take over this one because it's not as simple as like, oh, look, it's like the cops are, oh, cool, they're being cool now. They're gonna be peaceful. They understand, we sent a message and they understand and hopefully they'll reform themselves. It's like, no, this is gonna keep happening and not only is it gonna keep happening. Like you're saying, it's gonna keep getting worse. Anyone can predict that. You can see it. It's gonna keep getting worse because that's the whole thing. That it's driven by exploitation.

It's driven by greed and desperation and there's just certain people and they're becoming more and more. They're gonna be fucking backed into a corner and eventually they're gonna respond. And the protesting and the burning things and sending a message to the cops and the being in the streets and screaming and yelling, this is the easy part. This is the easy part of this whole thing. The hard part is to maintain that energy and to focus that energy into continuing to organize, to getting to know your neighbors, to making sure you're a good person, looking out for each other, organizing. It's not just about voting.

It's about knowing each other in a way that where we genuinely do have each other's backs where we genuinely are comrades. If that makes sense.

Trust and reliable.

Yeah, but that's where it starts at home. I think that's what you're talking about is like that's all I can do. I can work on myself. So I'm much more trustworthy people, a person and more reliable person. I can be counted on for things that when communities that aren't mine are going through something that they can count on me to be there and to speak to their play in an honest way that's not just rolling over back into my little comfort bubble. And no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I just wanna go back into La La Land and have my head in the clouds. Like, no, no, the cops should not be having their image repaired right now.

Capitalism should not be having its image repaired right now. Now is go time. We've resensitized, let's fucking do something, you know?

I mean, I hear that. Cass, what do you think? (laughing) You and I could argue, it's not even arguing. We could share our perspectives on this. We're not, we're talking about the same thing. I just try so, I don't even try hard anymore. I just, I don't like to send too much energy in a direction. I've found things really hit that resonant frequency of like, yeah, when I'm not pushing too hard or trying to grip too hard. And I feel like there's so much energy in this situation that if we can just hold it and like hold that vision of like, what you want, what we all want, which is that sense of trust and reliability.

And like, yeah, like of one of our friends, regardless of their skin color. But of course, the ones that are in more trouble that if they go out at night, like if a fucking black person walked out and rained back at like, you know, nine p.m. when the sun's going down, they're gonna be looked at differently. So we can't ignore that. But knowing that where there is a support system, that's what we all want. All of the other stuff I feel like really does fall in place. But if we recognize that that is something that's inevitable, rather than something we have to do something for, it doesn't mean we won't do those things.

It means we will probably necessarily do those things. It just means we hold that as something that's inevitable, that it's already happened. Without, that doesn't ever suppress action. I've never not finished a feeling, a song, a relationship. I've never not finished it when I've actually felt the feeling. Even if it felt like sometimes I was so far away from that. And I'm convinced consciously, like when I was moving, thought I was moving to LA. Do you know what I mean? Like I was convinced consciously that this is, this was just the right move, that I was gonna be moving somewhere, but it didn't happen and it shouldn't have happened.

And it's obvious to me now why it shouldn't have and it didn't. But at the time, like you just, I trusted, I knew I would end up exactly where I was supposed to be. And I was supposed to be even being in LA for that period of time. It's just not for as long as I thought it was.

That's supposed to be the game that you were supposed to be in LA.

Yeah, so like, but I hold the vision. Here's why I think I'm always so optimistic or what's perceived as optimism. I know what's happened for me and how I've been able to shape my reality just specifically and especially over the past year about. It's been about a year when I really been fucking applying this technique. I found an old journal that proved it right before Gabe was born. I know if that happens for me, that happens for everyone. It's not like I'm some special, unique, or there's only one person who gets to wake up. That's like, they'll be so lame anyway. So I know that if that happens for me, it happens for everyone.

Which means that we're, if that happens for everyone and we're collectively in that space, we're good. Like it literally, we're good. It doesn't mean we don't look out there and say, hey, this should be better. There shouldn't be fucking black people being killed. There shouldn't be fucking systemic poverty and racism and injustices. Like, doesn't mean we forget about that. It just means we know we're inevitably on the right track. And as long as we feel in resonance with that feeling, whatever action we're taking, even if it's more energy or more passive, it works out.

Well, that, I feel like that's what keeps me going. Like through all this, like even when I catch flack from people that I'm like, come on, you should fucking know better. Like, you know, even what I do genuinely know, and I think this is from stripping it all away with psychedelics, with meditation, with fucking fasting, with whatever the hell we've put ourselves through, that like, there really is something below all the ego games where we do all kind of have a shared vision for people being able to have a divine incarnation and explore and not be threatened and not feel pressured and, you know, actually experience freedom.

I think that we all crave that, we all want that. And we all have the ability to achieve that if we care about other people having it as much as we do. So I'm not as like, I think that's the difference. I've just really trained myself to, I don't know why, I'm just not as comfortable knowing that there's fucking bullshit going on out there.

Well, I think it's a, we all play our own roles. Like you were saying, Noah, like you're recognizing what your role is, your role is to share the knowledge that you've gotten about imagination and changing your reality and realize that that can be universally applied and does not discriminate. And so that's way that you're helping. And if you were asking me for kind of like what my take is on this whole thing, I mean, partly for me, like, I'm not the person who's gonna say something to crack someone's consciousness, but I understand what is happening right now is a collective consciousness crack where everyone has increased awareness, people I would never expect writing about the importance of being anti-racist, the importance of Black Lives Matter, people who have, I know, just gone about their days, you know, not done what we wanna do, which is like talk to the people about bail reform and all this sort of stuff and get in the nitty gritty.

And everyone's realizing that they have to, that they have to know a more true history of what's going on. And what I appreciate about Sean is that, well, I'm not interested in mixing it up on Facebook, I've found it to actually harm, be not helpful. I see how it is to Sean, like Sean is here to be a little bit of an agitator, to be someone who will say the unpretty thing who will call you out on your bullshit. And they will then take in that information and have push him away and they'll rev up their own ego and like play this game. But that's a game that Sean can play and will play. I'll play it because it helps me because I like, I get this metaphor every time I sit down to my computer, fucking little pop ups, update this, update that, update this, update that.

And you know what I say, I've, for years, remind me tomorrow, remind me tomorrow, remind me tomorrow. Well, life is offering you these opportunities to update your operating system, all the fucking--

I just updated mine.

Man. (laughs)

I just updated mine an hour ago, I never do it, I always hit it, remind me. But I bet you your shit is running so much better, it's more in alignment with the times.

Yeah, part of my operating system is up to the course.

Yeah, exactly. And like, we have an opportunity to do that every day. And those, and we hit remind me tomorrow, remind me tomorrow, remind me tomorrow. To me, the most potent ones are when things like water going down, when there's riots in the street, when there's like just clear injustice going on. And then when the reaction, I don't want people to have that, which is usually steeped in racism is happening. Man, is that those pop-ups are coming up saying, "Shaun, update your operating system, "update your operating system." These are people you share the planet with, you can't just write off racist, you can't just write off fucking white, liberal hacks.

And I mean, you can't just write these people off, you have to understand where they're coming from. So that's what I'm looking to do now, is just look at everything as the opportunity to like Cass is saying, like she mixes it up on Facebook, that doesn't work for her, for me it helps. Like, I mix it up on Facebook 'cause I get to hear what my opinion is, hear how it's affecting people and see in real time what it does to their defense systems. And I allow that to fucking update what my messaging is and how I wanna present it. Because I think like you were saying, this is what we do, I mean, this is all we can do right now, we're in a fucking mass lockdown, we can't go make films, we can't go make money in the way we usually do.

So we gotta hone our voice, work storytellers, we gotta figure out a way to look at what's going on in America 2020 and tell a story about this that helps people, that helps entice people into the revolution. That's what the artist's job is, is to help soften the revolution and entice people into it, make it look really inviting. And there's a way of looking at this as a beautiful pop up message that wants to update our collective operating system. And we could say, remind me tomorrow, but I'm so scared of what might happen if we keep hitting one, mind me tomorrow, or mind me tomorrow.

Well, don't be scared. I think this is-- - Well, 'cause there's more suffering, it's just gonna be more people suffering than dying. And we don't have to go there.

Suffering and death, I agree. Now, suffering death are inevitable in this world. We can't escape them, it's not a bad thing. Suffering can actually be a potent accelerator for us, realizing important lessons that help us and feel more integrated and resonant for sure. We know that everyone knows that. It's as simple as just like something bad happened to, and you learn a lot, it's as simple as that. But on a deeper level, suffering and injustice, which is certainly the awareness of injustice is a form of suffering, can be used as real opportunities to test our belief in some pretty powerful shit.

I think what I've been realizing lately with this imagination stuff, which is just saying what everyone is called God, or goddess, or anything, is just what's up here. It could be all those things too, but it's just this power of I am and this direction that we have here as individual, individuated states of consciousness. If that really does create this entire thing that we're perceiving here, how far does that extend up? Does that mean that by holding a vision of a world where racism actually isn't a thing, or the flashes or little minutias are like kind of polio in most places in the world, where there are these tiny little infinitesimal places that like, it's not a thing for the majority of the planet.

Is that a vision that's plausible and felt and believable? That's a potent use of imagination. If you need to build up to that by proving that you can achieve personal states of equanimity or peace or abundance, or just like some regular shit, like a fucking car, like a Tesla, I don't know, whatever it is for whoever it is, that's really potent stuff, because then that means we can start creating worlds and universes where this shit is just like an afterthought. And I do believe, like clearly, this is why I think I speak about it so confidently, it's like 10, 15, 20 years, like we will be looking back and be like shit.

Wow, we actually solved some big problems. I don't mean we solved racism. There's always gonna be people in duality who are basing their consciousness completely against or something else. That's what duality is in a lot of ways. And it's kind of a catalyst. It's not even a bad thing or a good thing at its core, but it is something that happens. But is the dominant mode of like figuring out who you are by saying dispersants lesser than or they're different? That's not gonna work. And I think a lot of people sense that that's not gonna work. I just trust it as an active process. I also feel like the calibration, we're moving through these cycles much more quickly.

For as much as this violence and protesting and all these things are amping up, it's not a duality judgment at all. I feel like it's cycling through pretty quickly. I also think it's very interesting how quickly and how limited the focus is at times. Like Corona was three weeks ago. It's all we're talking was Corona. All we're talking about Corona. One hyper-flamed incident. Now everyone, no one's thinking about Corona when they're out in the protesting really. I mean, they had the masks on and shit, but like it's a totally different situation. So it's interesting how these things are intertwined.

And I think feed ultimately what we care about, which is like people feeling safe and secure and good, no matter what, especially like it's definitely not because they look differently. Makes no fucking sense. But like, even if they think differently, can take you to some pretty weird places though, if you really follow those thoughts, but.

It's kind of crazy.

I think that's...

Sorry, I was gonna say it's kind of crazy how Corona led to a perfect storm for this incident to get as much traction as it has, you know, with George Floyd being murdered. You know, 'cause you, I mean, yeah, there'd be riots or protests, but you wouldn't necessarily see them across the nation the way we are. And it also given that Corona is happening right now, actually sends I think a stronger message. I don't think it's saying the people who are going out don't care. I think it's saying I care so much about this system changing, that I am willing to put my life and my body on the line for more humane first responders, for there not to be a system of oppression and abuse and police brutality and no accountability.

This is so important to me that I will risk going to prison myself, to jail myself. And you know the... - But it's a flip though. Oh, that's a flip though, 'cause we know that that could potentially be an accelerant that spreads something. Listen, my conception of what this virus is is very different. I'm just pointing out that it could be an accelerant that actually makes it easier to spread something that kills impoverished or marginalized communities. So there's this whole twisting thing that weaves and flows. So that desire to kind of die for your cause or for what you believe in in this world could actually be the thing that actually ends up harming a community.

To me, it comes down to intention with this stuff. I don't think there's anything wrong with willing to sacrifice oneself or die for what you believe in. I think that's very noble, but the intention that you bring to it, I think will determine the most effective way of expressing it. And I think it's a very special type of person who can go out in a protest. You see them on the videos. You see those people on the front lines who are fucking holding it down. They are not letting it escalate to violence, not because they're like pussies, but because they recognize in this particular situation, it's not gonna get the result they want.

It's not auspicious. It's not time to overtake the police and storm the fucking Bastille. That's not what's going on. So chill the fuck out. Let them know what's actually going on. Try to resonate with these people who are literally standing six feet away from you. Some energy send their way that even if they go home that night and think about it and like, holy shit, man, this guy could have fucking let these people come beat the shit out of me. I really don't think it's about buying that the police are turning a page, but there's this one image that I think was really powerful of this police officer who was separated from his team.

And there was a group of protesters protecting him from what the people wanted to beat the shit of him. That to me is kind of the energy you want to like. Those are the people who need to be on the front lines for me. If you're there for the most part are on the front lines. I mean, most people out there are not looking to harm another person. They're out there because they're tired of communities being. They're sending a message. They're sending a message. This is not about going out there and beating up a police officer. This is about peacefully protesting in the streets. And then there are people who are causing some harm, but mostly what I've been seeing from my friends who are in the protests and are filming this is that police are inciting violence.

Yeah. Undercover cops are inciting violence. Because it's a place of fear. It's a place of fear. Well, that's also what their system is. They're showing up with a gun. And that kind of tells you everything you need to know about what we're up against right now. And they're not hesitating to shoot. That's for fucking sure. They're using tear gas on peaceful protesters. That's illegal. We're not allowed to use tear gas in wars. And we use it on people here. Illegal, as we all know, is an highly subjective and relative term based on a variety of factors, not the least, which is the color of your skin.

So like, yeah, I mean, I do think like this is what I've been trying to reconcile, I think, a lot is-- I think we acknowledge that putting your head in the sand and just loving lighting over this, like it's not happening, it's not valid. But obviously on the flip side, getting too aggressive and rageful about it also doesn't have the efficacy or efficiency that we want. I guess it's like, how do we hold that vibe of knowing this shit is resolved? But also with the awareness that in linear time, what our senses are telling us that it's not, right? It's not resolved. It's not something that's going to happen overnight, right?

It's not this idea of if you go to sleep and imagine the place you want to be, you wake up the next morning and you're necessarily there. But it's knowing that you are moving towards that out picturing in your reality. How do we hold that? And do it in a way where people will actually listen who maybe hold perspectives that are dissonant with that. Who people maybe feel like they have a vested interest in there being a system of oppression, whose jobs or-- like, here's the thing about the police. It's the golden rule. If they found their system, let's say if they just had some resin and energy and their karmic path to become a police officer, like a UI, for instance, my son.

He's not going to be a police officer. I know that. But he loves the police. It's a cool fucking thing to him. It's the police. It's presented in culture. It's a cool thing. He's not doing it because he wants to fuck anyone up. It's just like the police. They're good guys. They do good shit. Whether that's the dominant reason if someone becomes a police officer or they just want to express their aggression is not the point. The point is is that those people need an off ramp to get off of that shit too. And usually, if someone who's going to have been in an aggressive authority position is not going to respond to someone saying, hey, fuck you, fucking police officer.

You shouldn't do that. So it doesn't mean that we don't have that spectrum of engagement. There are people who are going to need that. And it's going to be wrestling. And they're going to have to be subdued and be like, listen, motherfucker, this isn't how you do it. But there's going to be people who need to be like, I need to be pointed out in a way that makes me feel that this is wrong. That I know intuitively this is wrong. And I can't do this anymore because it just feels so wrong. And if those people happen to be in leadership positions within these organizations, I see this like, people come from me for readings in the medical field.

They're like, yo, the medical system is fucked. But there are these people who aspire to prominent positions within the nursing and doctoral field. Or even financial people. A lot of financial people are like, yo, the system's fucked. But I think I see a way of redistributing things more equally like that to me is how we probably, probably have this smooth out in a way where there's enough people who can like actually like have like, we also want the perspective of reformed police officers. Like you want the perspective of a reformed Ku Klux Klan member. You need that perspective to understand the psychology in some ways what someone is like when they're indoctrinated in that.

So everyone has their role. I know it's weird. I don't want to in any way make it seem like I'm not aware that this authoritarian, it's the natural fucking expression though of wanting your reality to take care of you. That's what it is. You have to take care of your shit. It is kind of like this ultimate pull yourself up by your bootstraps internally. It doesn't mean you won't have to fight against reality and work for everything you have for. But it is, that's kind of like, that's kind of the fucking gist of it. Shit harmonizes when you do that. Even if you die, even if you get killed, even if you fucking die for your cause, whether it's doing it like Malcolm X or Martin Luther King or fucking Che Guevart, like they really followed what they believed in and none was wrong.

Like Malcolm X, like a lot of people look at Malcolm X 'cause he was like white devil. Like you don't even fucking hate us. He'd be like, you fucking honkies. The fuck are you talking about? Are you on the streets with the guy to be like, no sir, I am not. But he fucking did what he believed in. And in the same way I, people hate it, I respect that. I really do. I respect it as much as I respect as a douchebag like Trump when he's being a douchebag. It's his reality. It's their reality. It's a role they're playing. It's not who they are at their essence. They're us too. They just, they didn't pick Sean and Cass.

They didn't pick Noah. They didn't pick Cool West Five. They didn't advertise. They picked. This time. This time. I think it's, I think what we're finding that it's important that we, if there is no balance that we balance it and that if people are scared of the cops, maybe the cops should be scared of people and are collective power. They are. They are though. That's why they come out with the guns. What do you do if you're really scared of someone? Do you peacefully go out there with no weapons? Like a bad ass or do you go out with guns? 'Cause you're afraid. Like that's what it is. It's like zombie apocalypse.

People are prepping. I was in a bunker the other day. We went to this property that was literally a bunker, a prep bunker. I was like, I don't, I don't live in this timeline. I wouldn't even want to be, I would definitely be dead before this happen. I don't want to live down here. This can tomatoes in a white fucking room. Please. Let the zombies eat me. Give me an overdose of ketamine before that. Yeah. Before it comes to that. You know what I mean? I do. Yeah. I don't, I don't want to live in that world. I don't want to live. I want to live in the world where these circumstances are bringing us closer together and not driving us further into separation and survivalism.

I want it to drive us further into humanism and say, and how are we alike? Why do I need to defend myself? What am I defending myself from? Who am I defending myself from? You know, how did I get caught up in all this? How am I like, like the others? Because I got caught up in all this too. So we got to get, you know. There you go. We go, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So that's why we got to always give each other an out. That no matter how worked up you get, that no matter how like. Always. I see people with Trump derangement syndrome and I'm like, man, that's going to poison it. Your feelings towards him and your hatred towards him is going to poison so many other future interactions that you have that have nothing to do with Trump.

Like, why are you going to willfully carry around that hate in your heart? Why don't you start seeing that the ways that Trump is just like you? And that's why it's killing you inside. That Trump. It's always like that. And that Trump is you. And that Trump is America, whether we like it or not, you know. There's no more, there's no more guilty white liberal thing than saying like, that's not my president. He doesn't represent what this country is. Yes, he does. He is to a T what this country is. And so is this incident with George Floyd. That is America to a T. And so is Joe Biden. He is so America.

It's fucking unbelievable. We have a dementia zombie who can't put together a sentence who's been campaigning from his basement with a fucking worst connection than we have right now. Guy can't get his shit together. He's not saying a goddamn thing. And like, that's going to be our choice against the worst president that America's ever produced. That's going to be our choice. Have you seen his Twitter icon? Oh my God, look up Joe Biden's Twitter picture. His mask is all crooked and his ears all flopped down. It's like, this is, it's like a joke. It's like, I think, you know? That's what you kind of was like the public access version of what it is.

It has like a Tim and Eric filter on it. His whole thing. I know, that's what it seems like. It's Big Burger produced all of these things. I know it looks like. It's fucking crazy. And like, this is the situation we're in. And, you know, to me, I'm like, I don't know. I don't find many things redeeming about it. It's a game, though. That's the thing. It's a game. You got to be able to recognize it's a game and still hold the objective suffering of the world in the other palm of your hand. Like, that's the whole dance. It's like this big two of Pentacles energy. Like that dude balancing that infinity symbol.

It's a dance. It's a performance. And I think we use these instances of objective suffering and injustice to calibrate towards a better system, feeling, state, where we're actually operating that. But yeah, I mean, it's a fear game. I mean, to me, the dominant energy of this year, next year, potentially up to 2024, especially for the United States, which is whether people like it or not, a global leader in terms of just how the world functions from a nuts and bolts basis right now, energetically even. Which, there is for a reason. Like, I'm not a United States hater. We spoke about this before the podcast.

Like, I keep getting these loans. I keep getting these fucking--

It's working out for you.

You know, huge amounts of money from federally government, you know, institution. There's a reason for that. And I genuinely do love this country and what its principles actually stand for, separated from the actual historical injustices. And that may feel like, you know, neoliberal cherry picking at times. But energetically, it's absolutely how you have to operate in this system. And that's also how like, you have to Robinhood shit. Like, if you really do want to see a system change, you got to operate from the loot that's already there. We're just recycling it and alchemizing it anyway, so.

Well, I mean, if it's a game, like definitely the way I see myself playing it is like, I remember when I got, I think it's Mario Brothers 3 for Nintendo and you can get the Tanooki suit and start flying above things and behind clouds and stuff. And you're like, what the fuck? There's a whole new world up here in the clouds. And like, and taking advantage of that new ability to fly and be up there in the clouds. But when necessary, still dropping down on some fucking Goomba and still dropping down and fucking do what I had to do down on that fucking plane of reality that I was on.

But dude, dude, also Frogsuit in that one, if I remember correctly, right?

Yeah, exactly.

So you have Frogsuit, you go underwater. There's a whole different range of things that are suitable for different times. I think getting too caught up in one is obviously not what we're trying to do energetically, elementally, like video game wise.

But having the ability to play the game where, oh, you're like, no, I can plunge the depths because I achieved this Frogsuit. I can swim around down here and come across these new aliens and creatures and whatever this underworld is. I can handle my shadow, I can handle the unconscious. And I know how to integrate it when I go back up to land, which is where I belong. And same thing with the Tanuki mode when you're up there and you're hiding behind clouds and you're fucking flying around like a sweet little raccoon with magical balls.

I like that you know all of the names. Dude, do you have a switch yet? Do you guys have a switch?

No, no, I know, we gotta get one, they're sold out, but you know, Carrie has one, but now she's been going home half the time, so we don't have access to it all the time. But it's probably a good thing, like we got to get into a different mode than what we were in, 'cause it was quarantine, like it really was. It was the dream quarantine for a couple of months. And then, you know, those little pop-ups started coming up a lot and it was like, oh fuck, reality. Reality's calling us back, I can't just play video games all day and just like, really.

Well, you can, it's just not for you and the best time.

No, it doesn't serve my heart. And like, that's, I think that's the thing. It's like, people can disagree with me all they want but all they just need to understand is like, this is what serves my heart. I need to hear myself say these things. I need to see myself do these things. I need to feel myself go to these places and see what it's like. And for me, that's what, that's my mission as an artist is to go to those places and build monuments to the things that I saw and the beautiful way that it could be if we started to all accept each other and if we all started to care about each other in a way we care about ourselves.

And where does that start? Caring about our fucking selves, man.

That's right.

We're learning how to care about ourselves and learning how to listen to ourselves. Learning how to listen to our body, listen to our temple, see what it needs so it can operate at peak performance so you can tap into your truth so you can then maybe radiate it. So you have something to give. These are things, there's lots of ways to avoid. There's lots of ego things we could do to avoid doing that work, but as you know, doing that works like, that's when life starts. That's when the most fun shit starts. I hate to say this, I'm forgiving of this dude, but like, man, the guy I was a while ago, it's like, oh God, what the fuck?

Because I've operated my, I've updated my operating system so many times, like maturity has been the fucking bingiest drug of my life. I fucking love it. I'm getting off so much, I'm getting older and obtaining wisdom and learning how to learn better all the things, then the other thing, the ego self-serving bullshit, you know?

Pop out some children.

Yeah, dude, I don't even know how.

The quickest on ram.

Dude.

Yeah.

That's the maturity on ram. And it's not for everyone just to be clear. It's just for people who really want that as like a baseline stabilizer. Like it's a trip because it really is, it's not that we don't naturally do this, but there is some like physiological, energetic, karmic connection between children and parents. We don't need to have children to know this or someone's children, right? So it's just like, yeah, it just fucking, it's a nice feeling though. You know how you feel when you know you're a more mature person. Not in like a lame way. It's also cool to see that you don't have to be lame and you could be fucking crazy as shit.

Totally fucking batch insane and be completely mature. I'd argue that the most mature people I know are probably considered by most people totally insane. They could be probably clinically diagnosed at various times, but like they're riding some frequency that like they're good. Like they're really good. They're better off than someone who's pretending that they're living some life that I was one of these people and doing it, thinking I didn't, you know how smart I am, like especially, like I can convince myself of anything. Like I didn't even know I was like in a situation that was like destroying me from the inside out.

I thought I was doing great. Yeah. Yeah. You were just in a whole different paradigm. You know what I mean? It's like it's hard to tap into the person you are because like, you know, you look the same and you know, you are the same in so many ways, but not like it's weird because I never knew you outside that situation. So like... That I always thought was interesting. It'd be one thing if you got together with somebody while I knew you and I'm like, what happened to Noah's light? What's going on? But that didn't happen. I was just like, I just knew you as a, you know, I'm a pretty happy-go-lucky guy, you know?

And I'm glad to, like, we talk about it all the time. Like, we're like happier for you than anyone. Like we... I know that. To like see the way things have worked out for you and the way things are working out. Like, it's fucking incredible. It literally is the shit we pray for. Like, we pray for our friends. We pray, you know, we use their names. We say their names and we try to send good vibes their way. I accept all blessings. Get prayers and send them back infinitely. That's the fun and beauty of this stuff. I think knowing that that works and getting evidence that that works helps us deal with these bigger macro situations.

I think you just have to, we have to scale up to sustain that, like, resonant frequency and not get fallen to that. Like, maybe this won't work out the way it's supposed to. And also holding the possibility that maybe that ends in a lot of death and destruction. It's just, I say that with a smile on my face because like, I know that's not how it happens. Like, I just see, like, if you could see this arc of humanity from this very broad perspective, it's so clearly getting better, even in the face of like horrible shit still existing. Like, we take for granted that we can live this long.

Right.

Like, 600 years ago, we'd be like fucking freaks. We'd be like, whoa, they must come from really good stock. They live like to their fucking late 30s and early 40s, like with no problems, like, whoa, whoa, what the fuck is going on? So like, it is getting better. Consciousness is revealing itself as the only creative power in the universe. And yeah, it's fun. I know in a weird way, it's just a fun energy to live in. And I don't know, I'm glad you guys are here. I know that. I know like whenever me and Denise are on ketamine or nitrous, we usually think of you guys. You're like, they usually come up.

Oh yeah, we talk about it all the time. You're gonna be a person we visit probably very soon, so.

It's really fun.

Yeah, I mean, and I think this is like like a gift of doing the work and actually doing shadow work and integrating it is you're like, you're putting on a better prescription for life. And when you put on that prescription, these layers of consciousness, you didn't know where possible start to reveal themselves, like community, like genuinely fucking praying for your friends and caring about them and having their back and taking them in and giving them things that they need and providing nourishment for each other. Like, this is something that has always been going on and always available, but it takes certain focus and discipline and shutting down of other distractions to really wake up to how amazing that is.

And I think that's like something that we all just kind of tuned into around a similar time. And like, if there's one thing that kind of defines our little ragtag community, it's that. It's like kind of we all woke up around the same time. And you know, we're on various stages of this thing, but like, we all kind of...

We caught a wave.

Yeah. - We caught a wave together.

Yeah, we caught a wave together.

That's definitely what it works. It definitely, there are these waves. This is a wave too, this energy. Like this wakes people up too, which is why I don't judge it either way. Like racism is wrong, obviously, but it is a tool that wakes certain people up. So in some ways, it's not wrong. In the same ways where I've been hurt objectively or someone has done something to me that ended in a shitty situation for me, that's not wrong either. I was uncomfortable, it was dissonant, it might have been unfair. My dad constantly reminds me, my biggest thing as a kid was, I wanted everything to be fair. I wanted everything to be fair and right and good.

And everything is fair and right and good. It just can't always be your immediate perspective if you're judging or fighting against the external reality. But if you hold that thing, like this is fair, this works out. It's amazing to me how many times that flips from some very dissonant, bad, uncomfortable situation to like truly almost sometimes instantly like the opposite. It's such a psychedelic moment when it just flips from like extreme terror to like total liberation. It's like, yeah. And that's the trick I think we're all teaching ourselves. And I don't think it's the end. I don't think that's the end of this story.

I think that's something that freaks me out too.

No, that's the beginning of the story.

It's the beginning, exactly. 'Cause then you know what every experience is. The badge, it's good then.

Yeah.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love what you're talking about. It reminds me of, I saw this clip with Toni Morrison the other day where she was talking about, you know, the true victims of this racism and the situation society in America is that white people think they need to be better than someone else. Like their self-worth is wrapped up with being the supreme race. And like that is a very sad thing to have in your soul. And that puts you in a really weak and vulnerable place.

Always, always.

It comes from the foundation of this country being on the genocide of the Native Americans. We, our collective ego, had to do something quick to justify that act that we were gonna just sweep under the rug and the ego created white supremacy. And it wasn't the first time, but that's the flare up we're still dealing with in this country.

So in the game of duality that I like to play is regionally and locally, I think we have access to the dominant energy patterns that are there. So since I moved up here like three years ago, right, I feel like I've had a little more access to kind of like the indigenous culture that's here. I don't really research it. I don't, I just sometimes I'm like, "Whoa, that's a feeling that it's not built."

Oh, dude, it's so potent up there.

Yeah, you know, you guys are from here. So, so I feel it sometimes, and I think regardless of your particular ancestral lineage and even historical lineage related to the place you find yourself, you're there for a reason to potentially transmute. Potentially I say, because not everyone's supposed to transmute, but transmute objective suffering and justice is relatively objectively, subjectively transmute those, but honor those in a way that actually like is good. The way it feels like to me, this is all I can say. I recently, there was like this past week, I don't know what happened. It was gardening week up here.

I turned into a fucking farmer, created a whole brand new garden. It's beautiful, all these plants, went and planted stuff over at Alexis's for EY, did this huge thing on a tractor where we're doing it with like this community up here. And like, we made an herb garden for our friends. And I was like, what the fuck was that? I felt like a trip, felt like a drug I just took, like farmer drug. And I was just like, what the fuck was that? But that to me is like how we actually honored the energies that were here. It's not about necessarily rectifying and it's not that you don't donate and support Native American causes.

It's that you get in the spirit of what they were about and that will naturally lead you toward the restorative healing actions that like, hey, like maybe from the Native American people we're still around like, we try to make it like, you know, they can honor their culture. Like they don't, we don't have to be fucking weird about it and just give money and like weird reservations where they're like designated, but like maybe we actually wanna learn about this shit in some real way. And it feels like a lot of the plant medicines are driving people towards that anyway, right? They're really forcing people to reconnect with the earth, which is this feminine, dominant energy, which is calibrating.

It's like, why are these plant medicines even in our consciousness? We're in this hyper-distracted, hyper-technological society and all of a sudden these ancient plant medicines are like warming their way into the consciousness of a bunch of white people who could maybe do something to affect their environment in a better way. Like of course, it's just like, it's so perfect. So I trust that. And then I trust the messages that those things give me and when I take ayahuasca and go down into the shadow realm, it's not fucking fun. It's not pretty and it is a lot of purging. And I come out on the other side feeling great and I think the purging we need to do collectively right now and what we're on the verge of, we're having the dry heaves of trying to purge the police.

Abolish it. - That feels right.

Abolish it. - That feels.

Let's just abolish it and purge it. Let's purge the prison. - Oh, it's an energy.

It's tough, it's tough. We're saying, oh God, but there's 900 military bases all over the world, all that money. (grunting) Oh God, what about all of our troops? Are we gonna be safe?

But soon, it's gonna dissolve. We're gonna just let it out. We're gonna say, phew, that ain't us anymore, that ain't us anymore.

You saw me do that, you saw me do that. I think it's unconscious masculine energy. It's not a gender thing. It's not even a patriarchy thing, what is, but not in like the traditional sense. It's just everyone has masculine and feminine energy, masculine energy. The unconscious shadow aspects of it are gonna be aggression, possession, dominance. And those things really start to flex their ugly muscles when fear gets in the picture, because that's when you're operating from this place where I have to use those tactics, that shadow energy to get what I want. It's becoming less and less effective, so it's getting more and more spastic.

And what this means is we'd like to pretend it's just out there in the world, it's these racist, it's these people, but it's us too. So we have to go inside and find these things. And to me, I'm grateful that all these macro events happen, 'cause they give me like a calibration point for what's going on with me. When I wake up and I'm like, ah, why are people so upset about this? I'm like, whoa, dude, like, maybe there's an energy point for you to understand something, whatever it is, but there's something there. You're putting in front of your face for a reason. We've all decided to do this, and I think it's, you know, give ourselves a pat on the back for like, incarnating in the time to take on a pretty big job.

In the past, it was probably just killing and hating people, it was the easiest tone. Like, these people are gonna try to fucking kill and murder us, we'll kill and murder them. It's like, all right, pretty simple. Got it. Let's just like do that. This is a much more complex game than just like--

Oh yeah, and what I'm saying is we're fully here for it, and we're ready to listen. And we're ready to fight and fight the revolutionary battle within ourselves, fight the revolution of your soul, figure out who you are, so you have something to transmute, 'cause you can't transmute where you don't possess, so fight for it within yourself. And if you can't feel what I'm saying yet, I get it, it's all cool, it's all cool. I don't think everybody is gonna be on the same page about it, but I think what we're coming to and what I'm noticing and why this fight has come to such a head, is because I think more and more people are doing plant medicine, are doing healing work, and are coming to the realization that they don't need to give into their fear, they don't need to live a life conducted by fear, and that they could actually live a life without police, whether or not they're expressing that.

That's what I think a lot of people are coming to, and I think that's why a lot more people are willing to speak out in the face of injustice. This used to be a cloudier issue in the years just to post 9/11 when the police were really having their peak moment. But before that, like Cass' mom says, she's like, I grew up calling them pigs. Whatever happened to that? And I'm like, whatever happened to that, we let another narrative start taking hold. And it was, I think, a really fucking dark one where we're praising this really fucking poisonous aspect of our community. We're ignoring voices we actually need to be amplifying.

Well, we want the police to be guardians, not warriors. You know, we don't need warriors on our home base.

Warriors, okay, warrior, I don't take exception to the word warrior.

Yeah, 'cause we're warriors.

We're all warriors.

Okay, sorry, but warriors, again, they're supposed to protect and serve the people, not fight and-- - Yes, guardians, warrior.

Yeah, pushing them to the floor and asserting their dominance over them and their impunity, you know. This is, they've become a completely lawless or arm of our United States government and we're not having it. We don't think that it's a badge to kill. You know, we don't think that this is not helping people. It's not helping our community. So it's about making these changes that are necessary and it's gonna come with like a gasp of desperation about it. But that's how real change comes about.

We're waking up to, and we're seeing it, we're seeing through the illusion where we're looking around like when somebody was getting on my case, like, oh, you're just gonna watch these people burn down their communities and cheer it on. And it's like, if Target and Walmart and AutoZone constitute what you fucking think is a community, we got work to do. And that's cool. I'm glad you're revealing that, but that ain't community. The cops ain't community. These are occupying forces. When Target and AutoZone and Walmart come into town, you know who goes out of business? All the mom and pop shops. All the people that could make an honest living and take care of their families with one job.

All those things go away. What's replaced is exploited labor, scarcity, all this nonsense, where you only have one place to go. And this is what the result is. It's like, we're fighting back. These are occupying forces. And the police go there to enforce capitalism, to enforce commerce, to make sure that we're scared so we don't do what's happening to the targets right now. You know? So we don't want to take off.

Well, I mean, I don't think most people are willing to lay their life on the line for Target. But I think, yeah, I mean, I don't think that's a strong position to be defending on. I don't know that I've heard too many people making it.

Well, wait, what part of it? It's like, I mean, these are occupying forces.

No, he's saying he's not hearing that people are saying that Target is a community.

Yeah, yeah.

But when people are like, are saying like, oh, why are they destroying their communities? 'Cause they're not their communities, 'cause their communities got destroyed.

But.

And sometimes it is, it is community stuff that does get destroyed.

Oh, yeah.

That does happen too. And those are the mom and pop places. Like I saw a clip from the LA riots where it was this like old black dude. He was like, I came from the streets and like, I don't use these as like justifications for like a system that is hurting people. I just, I mean, I guess the thing is, is the way I kind of look at this, here's my narrative. Let me just share my narrative. 'Cause maybe it makes more sense that way than trying to get to this nebulous point. I think what's happening is we're about to see a mass, I don't usually believe in catalyst level events. I think change is typically slow and it weaves in linear time in a way that we don't perceive it as this big fucking volcanic explosion.

That's why we don't have like bombs dropping most of the time people in various places in the world and especially in Nagasaki and Hiroshima would disagree. But for the most part, it's not how it happens. But there are these unique cosmic events in which I believe we are in one in linear time, which is fun, where I think we're about to see a massive redistribution of values and wealth and abundance as not just a physical fucking manifestation of like people having money and freedom and stuff like that, but like an internal shift in how this stuff works. And I think people are anticipating that energy and feeling it and reacting in different ways and it's perfect and there's nothing wrong with it.

And yes, it's gonna be smoother at some point, but the trick is to my narrative is that like at me and a lot of people I know are about to have more money than they've ever had in a way that is not just fleeting. It's not like you made a bunch of cash and you made off like oceans 11 and you got it and you can just run away. But something that literally can be built upon and you know is serving a good function ideally past our mortal lives, right? This is just a felt feeling that I've been perceiving in my friend groups. I see it happening. That as a platform wouldn't be unique just to my immediate circle of people I know.

That would be happening in other places as well. And that actually gives us kind of this like strengthen like my silia web to build this new world of which this we're imagining to actually be built. So to me, I don't know how it looks. I don't know how this thing falls apart and breaks or doesn't, but I know that everyone's playing their perfect role. And if that's true, if this is all just an illusion which I believe it is. It is just kind of just like this projected illusion. It's real and we feel it and we don't just count the emotions. I'm just gonna choose to believe in the illusion that's magic, that's fun, that's perfect, that results in like a crazy underdog cool fucking badass story.

That's just what I choose to believe in and the more I believe in that, I don't get more isolated from world events. I don't get more isolated from suffering. I feel more connected to it, but I actually see a blueprint where I don't feel powerless. I don't feel like I have to operate from fucking, we don't wanna go to the dark timeline because that's a real potentiality. To me, it feels like an inevitability that we end up on the best timeline, that we are in the best timeline. So I don't question most of my motivations 'cause I can quickly like hold myself accountable. And I think that's all that's going on here.

So I feel like just like the shit that we've always wanted to build and participate and see, I know we've spoken about like homelessness and other like important issues to us. Like I know that like we work and I don't wanna see solve them, but like at least create systems that are regionally and locally solving issues. And just if not, idea wise, there's enough people who wanna help. And there's enough people who wanna help who already have resources. Like already they already put in all that work, already dealt with all the karmic load and dissatisfaction of having only wealth. And they love nothing more than to give it and have it be working in a way that feels honorable and ethical for them.

Are they gonna be Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk? Who knows? It's not important. It's irrelevant who the people are now and if that's them, but like no one's gonna sit here between us three and say if Jeff Bezos decided to donate all of his money tomorrow towards causes that, you know, were unequivocally good for the planet, everyone be like this guy's a hero, great. Everything he did before was just leading up to this moment where he kind of seemed like a piece of shit, but he did this nice thing. So it's like everything can turn on a dime. And I think as long as you know that we do end up in these places, you never don't have to go through the motions of solving it yourself.

It's not like you become like disconnected and you just forget it and you go meditate off in a cave and you don't have to worry about the problems of target or racial injustice. That's not how it works. You wouldn't be here. You'd be in a different timeline where that's what you're doing. But that's why I'm trying to more and more tune into the voice inside me that's saying like, this one's worth talking about, don't write this off. My abilities right now are to tell stories that can change people's minds about things. And I'm asking people to go a little bit deeper with me because that's where I've been going as deeper and deeper and deeper and tuning into this and tuning into a better reality in our future where we're past this stuff, where we've sewn better seeds and that we have a society that we can all live together in harmony where we don't have to worry about people being hurt.

We don't have to worry about labor being exploited. We don't have to worry about someone going homeless or not having the love that they need and therefore they end up in addiction, you know?

Right, right. And if you live in that world already, which I will claim to it, I live in that world. Just to be clear, I live in that world. I will say that. - Yeah, me too.

I think there are many other people who don't look like me also live in that world. But if you live in that world, how do you help people also live in that world with you? How do you get to the point where you can actually genuinely like take someone's hand and just not give them a fish but teach them how to fucking do it for themselves so they can do that. That to me is the game that we're still kind of revolving around right now. I do think we get to a point where everyone kind of understands that and then we can do the truly fun stuff where it's not just like, "Hey, like come up to this perspective here where we don't have to play this fear domination fucking agro game."

We've all, I don't know, it's just, it feels like the energy that we're moving past is like if you've ever been at a party or a small group of people, like, I don't know, six or seven people and there's just one person who's like way off energy with everyone else in like an aggressive way they want to dominate. And everyone else kind of knows it but they're polite enough not to say anything and then afterwards everyone's like, "What the fuck is that?" Not in a judgy gossipy way just being like, "Whoa, what was that?" That's all that's happening right now. It's nothing more serious than that. It's just like this weird fucking energy.

Like that person can grow and learn and be a wonderful member and come back when you know, everyone plays that role sometimes but I don't think it's more serious than that. It just feels like life and death. (laughing) It does. I love to pee. I'm gonna go pee. It's allowed. It's allowed. Do you want to hop over to our thing? Do you want to-- This is a good wrapping spot. Whenever. We can just split them too, like it's-- Okay, cool. I don't even know. I want to reset our things just to make sure that our cameras are cool. This was fun. Thank you for having us, Noah. Yeah, this is, yeah, I forgot it was my podcasting.

It was just a good conversation. Yeah, well if you want to hear part two of this conversation, click over to the very eight. I think we could do it like that. But we've ever done one like, I think we've probably done this before. Those are good. Those are good for everyone. I know from doing them with Ryan and some other people that they work. Oh, cool. Yeah, let's do it. Well, part two of this will be over on the very eight podcast which is on YouTube. So you can watch part two and yeah, check us out. We have a show called Church of Chill, which is music. And we have a whole bunch of documentaries we've made which are also on the YouTube.

Amazing. Yeah. Thanks, Noah. We'll call you back in five. How's that so?

Peace. - Sounds good. Peace. (upbeat music) Thanks for listening to that episode. I don't have to think. Why do I keep thanking people at the end episodes? If you're listening to it, that far you probably enjoyed it. Sean and Cass, as you heard, there's a part two. That's on very eight podcast. That's their podcast. You can find it. You may have heard us mention MindPod Network. Did we mention on that on this one? Or is that the other one? I don't know. We're gonna be doing stuff with that. Sean and Cass, please go check them out. Very eight dot TV. They've been getting their YouTube cracking too.

So go subscribe there. They're the best. They're like my best friends. They are the coolest. So go check out what they're up to. I guarantee you'll love it. It's pretty much guaranteed. If you like what I'm doing, you're gonna love what they're doing. Patreon is going on, this episode is released as a regular episode. I do bonus episodes on Patreon. I do bonus Q&A episodes as well. We do live readings. We have smoke sessions. There are three tiers. There's the $7.77 tier that gets you access to the bonus Q&A episodes. The $13.13 tier gets you access to bonus Q&A episodes and bonus episodes and live readings.

And the highest tier, the 22, 22, gets you smoke sessions and all of the shit and the other ones. And I think you'd get discounts for readings if you sign up for all of those. There's like a 10, 20 or 30. I don't know if it's $30. But there's discounts for all of those. Go check that out. You can get readings@sinkpodcast.com. S-Y-N-C. What's a reading you ask? This is where we work through shit. We work through energy. We work through themes in your life. Things you want clarity, insight, guidance on. It's really not fortune telling. Very rare do I get someone who wants fortune telling a very specific thing.

We do work through that energy. We do get resolutions and things related to that. But this is also something like my readings are short. They're 20 and 30 minutes. The reason they're that short is 'cause that's how long it takes to usually work through like most people's biggest issues in life. We do get repeat people, of course, when they wanna talk about things. But for the most part, you don't need a lot of time to work through this shit, for real. That's the first thing I wanna establish. Like you don't even need like the therapist 45 minutes time. Like that's usually too much. I started doing an hour when I did these, started doing them last year.

It was way too long. I was just ended up talking, which is great. But like that's not what a reading is for. It's really to work through fucking awesome shit. Cool shit, hard shit, just energies. We do some astrology, we do some tarot. We have the full moon ones coming up. We're in the thrust of that in three days. You can go check the calendar for those. That's it, shit's fucking amazing. Stay tuned, I know I keep teasing it. We are going to have a solo cast next week. I've been saving up a lot of stuff. You're gonna fucking love it. Cool, hang tough, hang cool. Happy imagining, bye bye.

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