Opening The Flood Gates with Mark Pontius

(upbeat music) ♪ Oh, you are an inch evening ♪ ♪ I don't know where you're coming from ♪ ♪ Oh, you are an inch dream ♪ ♪ I tell the world ♪ ♪ You'll sing the change now ♪ ♪ I tell you what's wrong with your heart ♪ ♪ At the name ♪

Welcome to Synchronicity, my guest this week is Mark Pontius. Drummer of, of, of, ooh, what is that? Is that a big S? B? Right when I'm about to record? Oh man, if the B's been out around you, please don't come close to me. Please don't come close to me. Please don't come close to me, thank you. It's the last thing I need. I'm not trying to like foray into like the frontiers of podcasting by having a B sting me while I'm recording an intro, not into it. Anyway, back to Mark, he's awesome. Drummer and Foster, the people, who's in another band mile back, is that what he said it was? I found out in this episode, I'm like, we're barely scratching the surface of who Mark is as a person, as a human being, as the avatar he's playing out.

He revealed at the end of this episode towards the end of it about his Christian upbringing and missionary work. I didn't get to delve into like half the shit I wanted to speak to him about. We're gonna save that for other stuff. I have a real clear inkling that we're gonna be doing a lot more Mark and I and a lot of the groups of people that you have been listening to on podcasts for the past, however long. Anyway, he's awesome, he's cool. You're gonna hear all about that. If you don't know who Mark is, probably if you do, you know him from Jessa Reid, who's been on this podcast, her podcast, Soberish and before that, Mormon and The Method and just from her stand up.

She, we met, of course I'm gonna talk about Jessa in the Mark episode, of course, of course. We met what, Jesus fucking Christ, July of last year. And since then, I don't wanna put words in her mouth, but my life has changed so fucking dramatically. It was like some weird alchemy seemed to have happened. And I think both of us had been in the midst of like some deep transformational shit, but there was some catalyst that happened. And I don't even think we went into it in this episode, but I think if I'm not mistaken, like Mark listened to an episode of Duncan Trussell's podcast that I was on and then that he found Jessa through that and it's this whole fucking thing.

And I don't know, this is a pretty cool episode, especially for people who are maybe going through kind of this archetypal calibration related to being the villain or being cast in the role of the villain in, you know, someone else's life. And sometimes objectively the circumstances that you're playing out or running just look villainous, you know, from a certain perspective. The key here I think that we get into in this episode is that like it's your capacity to buy into that and kind of run that pattern and program and run that perception of that pattern and program more to the point that allows it to carry any weight.

And there are certain circumstances that some of us devise that are complex and you know, they teach us a lot of things about pain and suffering and how to feel good and what we want and what we don't want, what feels comfortable, what doesn't. And it's not always what we would consciously seek out, but on a deep fundamental level, it's what we want, right? And I think the way I approach deeply transformative circumstances or issues is directly related to our capacity to feel those things. And that's really I think what Mark and I are cutting at more than anything in this episode is feeling really is the secret.

It's what summons forth the reality that we perceive and our ability to kind of modulate that and direct it in a certain way allows us to experience a lot of different things in this life that we may not have thought as possible. Like, and this is like, take it from Mark, someone who has done something like, I know there are a lot of musicians who listen to this podcast. I just know it. Like for a fact, you guys get in touch with me. Just, I know. And a lot of them in varying degrees of success. Like some people have hit it big with major labels, tremendous success. I went to a fucking music school, there's all the whole gamut, you know, people have done everything and you can possibly imagine the music.

And some of you may feel like, you know what? Like I didn't hit that exact stride that I was hoping to hit as an artist, as a person in a relationship, whatever it is. I didn't hit that perfect version of who I am. And you may look at that as kind of like a defeat. And this is like the Nine of Wands energy. This is like this card of this dude in the right of weight with the tarot. Getting the shit kicked out of him. Like really just like, you've taken the fucking lumps but you're still standing. You can look at that one of two ways. You can look at it like, fuck man, life is just against you. You're never gonna make it.

There's only so many spots for people anyway. You know, in the entertainment industry for the music. You know, oh well, fuck, I might as well, what's the point? I'll just do something else. That's not, I'm not really passionate about, but you know, it's the smarter thing to do. And the truth is, it's like, that's a thoroughly unsatisfying route, but it's one you're always allowed to play. The other way of looking at the Nine of Wands, which is related to passions with the Wands, the fire there is you take the lumps where you're still fucking standing. And that's a cool fucking story. And if it's just something leading up to you figuring out that like all this shit that maybe seemed unsatisfying or uncomfortable was just leading up to a point where you can actually express what you wanna do, whether that's make music, whether it's paint, whether it's, you know, find a perfect relationship for you that feels good and allows you to grow as a person with another.

Like whatever it is, like that's what it was leading up for. It's more of a calibration. So that's a lot of what the energy feels like today as I recorded this podcast, gonna put it out the same day. Yeah, Mark's just cool as fuck. Just expect a lot more from him getting together, a Dropbox with him and Rameen. We're just gonna drop music there. It's gonna shame people into doing what I wanted to do originally, which is just like put stems of music and like unfinished things and be like, yo, dude, that's really good. Like you should finish that. Like here's an idea and like, it's gonna be fun. Anyway, Mark has a podcast.

He just started called Sudden Podcast, right? Is that what it's called? I don't know the fucking name, I'm the worst promoter of people's stuff. There's links though, where all the links are. You can find that stuff. You can follow him on Instagram and Twitter. I was supposed to look up his Instagram name 'cause it's not his name. It's not Mark Pontius. I think it's that on Twitter though. Does he really tweet? I don't know, let's look. Who do I follow? Not many people. Oh, fuck, it's not an order of who you followed. Dude, Mark, I'm gonna look this up while I'm doing it and just speak your praises in the meantime.

What is it? What could it be? What is your fucking, I know it's like a ranch. He has a ranch. He's fucking cool. He's a ranch. Anyone has a ranch is cool, right? It's cool. All right, anyway, I don't have it. I'm gonna get it. It'll be a link on the thing. Follow on Instagram. He's cool. Check out his podcast, subscribe. It's now on iTunes. He'll be links to all of that. Join the Patreon in case you didn't catch it. Release part two of a podcast I did with Ryan Singer from Me and Paranormal You. Part one is on his podcast, Me and Paranormal You. Part two is on mine. There's video there. We're gonna do video stuff.

Feelin' video. Feel like as I know that I look better because I feel better. I like want to do more video stuff. I get it. It's cool, it's fun. Look good. Feel good. So good. That's going on there. We have live reading going later today. Patrons. We're about to crack the 200 patrons, Mark. Don't do that thing that people will become about to get. So let's X amount of followers and then people unfollow. Don't do that. Push this over 200. We'll do some bonus shit. We'll do some fun things. I don't know. Readings, collective readings, group readings, Snapchat, I don't know, something cool. That's going on there.

Anything else? I don't know. Those readings, new moons, how you guys like those. Also cool props to all the return people. I love it. It's like such an endorsement. Think with readings because sometimes it's like an intuitive person. Jesus Christ said I used that term. But as someone who does these readings, you really-- you have to gut check yourself and be like, am I really providing a value here? Intuitively, I know that I am. But am I really-- then when people come back and they're like, you help me this, you help me with that. It's really helpful. It feels good. It's good energy exchange. And I like it.

And I love it. So those are open. Full moon ones would be the ones coming up for this period then another new moon. OK, that's it. Jesus. What a rambling opening. Oh my god. All right, without further ado. Here is cool guy extraordinaire Mark Pontius. [MUSIC PLAYING] Well, I'm looking forward to this, man. Thanks for coming on, by the way. I'm glad I-- thanks for pushing it back a little bit. I was so focused on trying to get my own podcast out. It's so hard, dude. It was like, I've been in this finding myself. I realize how much I was in this fucking other bubble, like a character that wasn't really me.

And I spent-- I probably did 26 or 27 takes of trying to just get an opening to it. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, you're not being real and vulnerable, man. What do you-- and I'm just in here by myself. I can delete it if I want. It was just so-- it's embarrassing, but it was so difficult. I just realized, I mean, in the public eye that I live in, I'm never really being vulnerable. I'm kind of a character. But for the first time, when you're trying to do that, it was so fucking hard. But I'm glad I got the Band-Aid ripped off. Well, I want to talk about that right off the bat is your podcast. But yeah, man, I know exactly what you're talking about.

The good news is it does get exponentially easier the more you do it. I used to remember the first 50 episodes I did, where I had guests every time. I didn't really have a huge need to talk for a long time by myself. But yeah, I went through the same thing. Who is this? What version of me is this? Why am I talking like that? I remember the first episode I did, my entire family, when they heard it, they're like, why are you using that voice? And I'm like, I don't know. It's not getting bad. But yeah, man, well, that's cool. So wait, whoa, whoa, back it up for people who don't know. You started-- are you just lighting up a blunt?

No, I'm taking a break from weed, actually. This is a-- it's just a backwards. You're actually smoking like a real backwood-- backwood? Yeah, man. Are you the only person in the entire universe who does that? What? I don't know. This is all-- I mean, when I do smoke weed, this is what I use for old blunts instead of any kind of swish or sweeter or anything. It's just so raw and natural. It's just the leaf, you know, it's like the cleanest-- Oh, shit. I've never seen anyone actually smoke a backwood. I always make a joke that like no one buys these things. They know they're buying them for weed, like-- Oh, man, I must-- they must-- backwards, like that company must just send a boatload of them here in Nashville because me and my buddy buy them all the time.

And they run out, like the gas station runs out. I think we're the only ones buying them. Unhealthy habit, but you know, whatever. I just-- I'm loving that you actually smoke this as a thing. Yeah, I get a cool thing. Like I said, it's a little-- the podcast thing. I still get a little bit like some jittery nerves. I just-- I always smoke. Oh, tobacco, like a cleanser. Yeah. Yeah, I feel you. All right, as you light up your actual backwood with no weed and night, which is going to blow my mind for the rest of this episode, just to be clear. Dude, podcast, started a podcast. Why? What are you doing with it?

What are your-- like what-- I know what it's like to start it out, obviously. You're with someone. For people who don't know, your partner is amazing. Jessa, like fucking-- you know, for-- for my money, my favorite podcaster of all time. So you have this like world around you. What was the impetus? I also know you like through Jessa. And we met once in LA when I was on what nasal ketamine. I'm like trying to give it to everyone. Yeah. But like what was the-- what's the motivation here? What are you doing? I know you're a cool guy, but I let the world know that now. Yeah, man. It's kind of a-- it's a loaded question.

There's a lot of things to it. I think primarily-- and I said this in the beginning of the podcast-- it's really-- and not a cliche way, the thing's really for me. Like I said, it was so difficult to just try to unpack like what I was hiding from and who is this voice that doesn't sound like me. And in the self-seeking that I've done in the last like two years, I really have gotten my head around that. And I know that there's something really magical there for me that I've been hiding for a long time. And not knowing that I was hiding, that was the thing that caused me to be like very depressed and anxiety, all these things that I've never had problems with.

But in the last two years, it was just a breaking point, man. And I didn't know what it was. And so as I isolated myself, kind of from a lot of friends and the band environment, I started to really dig into that just to understand it. And then I got to a point where it was still difficult. Like I would get back into the band environment and like this shit would just shut off again and I'd be this other person. And so being around Jessa and honestly having such a transformation from all of the podcasts, not just Jessas, yours, Duncan Trussel, Rameen, all these things were so helpful for me. But primarily I could sense that these people were being very honest and authentic.

And even in the fuck-ups or the contradictions that we all have to do on the podcast, it didn't matter because the authentic nature of it was just-- that was like magnetizing to me. And I didn't know if I could do it. I had a lot of doubts in it. But as I was around Jessa and I was on her podcast a lot and just absorbing how authentic she is, I have a buddy here too that I've been really close with. And he's just within five months, man. This guy's like a different guy. And he's just hit the ground running. And he's unapologetically authentic. And again, watching these people just blossom. I'm like, I can do this.

I know I'm on my head. I'm doing it. And I'm starting to integrate. But I have to output it somewhere. And so a lot of times I am doing that in art. But it's in a sacred space. I don't really feel enough-- I'm not confident enough to share that openly with people. But as I have been here, I've started to just be forced to be vulnerable in the studio with my buddy Nate and Jessa sometimes being in the room. And I'm like, I typically don't do this, but I'm going to start trying to see if I can find that creative flow with these people in the room. And it quickly happened. And I was like, OK, that didn't burn that bad.

And then I think in part in the last month, I was going through a divorce. And there's been a lot of other people's perceptions coming into my reality that I'm-- You know we're going to talk about Bishop, our friend. Continue, yeah. I've had to-- I keep falling back asleep with that. People come in, and I try to be empathetic and compassionate and try to listen to people. But they're just throwing all this false narrative against me that it's hard for me to just not be affected by it. And so I think in one of those moments, I was down to my core, man. I was in the dumps of darkness and trying to unpack it.

And in passing, I think Jessa kind of was like, what if you take care of this on a podcast? What if you just rip yourself open and pop away? And that felt really cool to me. And it wasn't even-- it wasn't like, yeah, do it on a podcast. And then people will start following your podcast. And then you can be validated by people seeing you. It really-- I mean, it is that, I think, in some way. But primarily, I was like, that's cool, because it seems like in a podcast world, you don't need to be held accountable to anybody on what you're going to say or how you're going to do it. And it can just be a journal of sorts.

That's what it is. And people turn it off. Like, as Jessa was pointing out at the beginning of every episode, she's like, just turn the fucking thing off. If you think this person is like an egomaniac nightmare person, you don't have to listen to a ramble. That was just so-- I was like, oh, maybe that is. But part of me was like, no, don't do that. Don't do that. Because I do have a weird relationship with public fame and whatever the little fame that we've had in the band. I've always resisted it. It's enjoyable in the first two years of the band. I was just like, woo, let's ride this roller coaster.

And we're popular. And we get all the attention. But I started to really feel like that wasn't to be taken too seriously. And if I over-identified with that, I was going to get myself into some-- Wow. At least you did that because I know enough people who either subsequently got out of that after a long time of being stuck in that mentality of the fame mentality and that kind of validating your existence. And people who are still in it and are miserable. And it's not like you have to be. I also want to point that out for a lot of people. This is something I think I spoke about with Jessa. The first time we met is that I was like, why aren't you famous?

Like, because you know how to do this. I saw it instantly. She knows how to do it. Like, I know people want to do it. I learned how to do it. Like, why? And the reason is, is like, you're aware of what that energy implies. When you kind of stabilize your self through these experiences, like a divorce. Like, making sure you know who you are, even if every single negative role is being thrown at you by people in your life who you told me this was going to happen. This is the life we were building. How dare you do this? These other people looking in objectively, you're being a piece of shit. What are you doing here?

How could you? How dare you? But then on the other side of it, you found what I found. I'm sure, which is this deep resonance with who you actually are, which all of that other stuff pails in comparison. But it doesn't make you immune from people pitching those roles to you. But it's like, it's getting your feet on a surfboard is the way I think about it. Like, you're riding bigger and bigger waves. And as you do that, you want to be more and more stable. So if you get knocked off, you're not getting knocked off like a fucking 10,000 foot wave. And it's just like a little microwave. At first, you got knocked off and you can keep getting better and better.

So yeah, I think somehow I was lucky enough to have one foot out of that same thing for a while that I didn't really like play into it too much. And I mean, I kind of did the reverse. I reclusive from it. And I wasn't on social media, didn't exist anywhere. Because something in me was like, that's not-- don't worry about that. Like, find your stable center to be able to like operate. Handle it, yeah. So that was like a huge thing. And yeah, so the podcast really is kind of-- for now, I'm really open to it. I want it to kind of morph and grow. It's primarily a journal for me. But then it's also a really cool outlet.

You've actually been an inspiration with how you play with your podcast more as like a wide canvas of art. You can put your music in the front and have it on the tail. And it's a different song every time. Yeah, why not? And so you have-- it's an outlet. And so I'm really drawn to that too. I do a lot of music on my own that doesn't-- I typically don't-- I'm a very like-- I'm all about flow and like feeling in art. If it's not feeling good and there's no flow, I don't really like continue to do it. So I-- it's a long process. And I have a lot of little ditties and little thoughts. Yeah, I get it.

Most of the time, I have trouble like really finishing a song and putting lyrics on it and all that. And so I have all-- I have like hard drives of just little ambient sounds or like pretty finished songs. But I don't really even have a desire to be like a solo artist and do that. I love collaborating with people and producing other people. But this seemed like a really cool outlet to just, again, not be accountable to anything. It's like, oh, this song's cool. I like this feeling. I don't really want to finish it and put lyrics on it. Let me just throw it in this. I can create this other world of artistic expression that I can share if people like it.

Cool. If not-- I guess for me, it's fun to just produce this little show and put some music in it and talk about things. And then-- and so it's inspiring to me. And I'm excited to try to put a little more energy into it. I mean, I have no doubt. It's amazing already. Dude, like, that's the best thing about what I found. What people call podcasting is when you're just revealing kind of an authentic creative self is you literally do whatever you want. Like, that's my-- it's-- to me, it's the most authentic expression of what anyone could ask for is because, like, you do whatever the fuck you want.

Like, literally. And if you want to be Joe Rogan and make hundreds of millions of dollars off it because that's like you figure it out to that degree, God love you. Amazing. But like, if you just want to put, like, dude, what helped me finish songs. And I have hard drives and hard drives and hard drives and gigabytes, hundreds of terabytes of-- not unfinished. I don't even call them anymore of just stuff that I've made when you find the home for it. Sometimes you finish them. Sometimes you don't. But it's just getting it out there and resonating with other people that teaches you, like, holy shit.

Like, this wasn't, like, me fucking up and not finishing. Something I just hadn't found the outlet for it to go. Like, dude, I put shit online where it's like, this stuff is from 10 years ago, 15 years ago, that I still was like, this is good. I'm going to put it out. Then someone, of course, will be like, and I'm sure you'll notice this. If your intention is really to be vulnerable and authentic, it's the episodes that you release where you're like, oh, God, I don't know about-- I think I'm going to-- those are the ones that people will reach out and be like, oh, you changed my fucking life. Like, for real, I think you did that.

It's nice. I was listening to Joe Rogan's podcast the other day with Kevin Hart, which, by the way, Kevin Hart is like, whoa. He's-- I think he's-- I didn't realize that. Like, the stuff he was talking about, he's talking about being a reality, being a game, and all these same-- Damn, Kevin, yes. Of course. One of the things they were talking about is that-- I think in the arena of social media and all this-- the internet nowadays, there's so much false information. And then there's also an ability for us to be able to edit ourselves constantly and make ourselves look like something we maybe really aren't.

And so it's kind of created this environment where we're used to that. And when you see somebody actually being genuinely authentic and their heart is out there, you sense that. People sense it. No matter what you're saying, they're kind of drawn into, like, wait a minute. Most of what I see out here are people kind of being fake and you get used to that. But then someone is authentic and you're like, you're drawn into it. You don't even know why. And again, that's that magnetism I was feeling in a lot of these podcasts. It's like, what is it that they're doing? There's something-- there's a tone here or something that feels really powerful and genuine.

And it's cool. And this arena of what we're at right now in life and the internet, there's a really cool thing bubbling up of this authentic-- it's OK to be authentic. It's OK to feel things as a man. It's OK to feel like that is fucking wild. I was so caught up in my head for so long, man. I thought I knew everything. And I'm intellectually processing things. But I was forgetting to really pull it down into my heart and you do it cry. The feminine wisdom, right? Yeah, right. Transformative, man. When I really started to do that, I was like, oh my god. I've been wasting so much time thinking, I don't need to feel this.

I don't need to cry. But letting go and doing it, right on the other side of that darkness, that fear is a fucking healing medicine. It's so incredible. I know. It's weird because people are having this happen to them, kicking and screaming or going joyously. To me, I just kind of look at reality and duality. I don't mean this to either suck the life out of it or overemphasize what I view life as. But it is illusory, good and bad, right and wrong. I'm not denying you go punch an old lady in the face. Don't do that. That's bad. But it's illusory. So if it's illusory, why would you choose to engage with the cynical, kind of skeptical, kind of cut yourself off from that intuitive heart aspect of it if it's both just the game?

You'll get to the point where intellectually and conceptually that adds up. Anyway, why not just drop that shit, see what it feels like to actually believe and experience magic and just let yourself go there, and then watch what happens. And it's predicated on being authentic. Like you said, that first step has to be like, all right, this is where I'm at. It may not be pretty right now. But if I speak about it, just by getting it out there, I at least am transmuting it in that very literal sense. You know, I mean, I'm sure you've listened to me at least enough, it's just like five minutes of me on any podcast, whether it's sunken or otherwise, is I genuinely believe that we summon forth this reality based on our feelings.

I think that's the entire thing of everything. All the other stuff conveniently fits together so we don't lose our fucking minds. But like, when you feel something come into your reality, that's when it begins to show up. And you totally believe it, as though it's happened, then it's in front of your face. So I'm curious for you, like you mentioned two years, like what was the propellant here that kind of shifted the character or avatar you were playing, where you kind of felt like you, I was just talking about this last night, by the way. I was like, just so you can understand from my perspective, like in the past, up until about a year ago, a little more, I would get flashes of like who I was.

And it would just be like a moment. It'd be like, wow, that really felt like who I am. Like that really felt like it. Now, it's the exact opposite. I barely even get flashes of not being who I am, but it had to like first like flash in and kind of until I could catch it and stabilize it. So what did this look like for you? Like when did this kind of things start to happen?

I think it was about two years ago, maybe three. So I've been in the band and been in foster to people for 11 years now. And I'd say about halfway through that. Well, real quick, I got into that band. I was in a different band for six years. And like all my eggs were in that basket. I thought it was my ticket to see.

What band was that?

It was called Malbec, like the wine. But I had to drop that at a certain point. I realized like this doesn't fit anymore. And I had to, I mean, I jumped off the cliff and didn't know what was gonna happen. But I had already, me and Mark had been collaborating a little bit on the tail end of that. And it was, for me, it was just kind of a side project that was a little more fulfilling. It was genuine. It was easy to play music with him and write with him where my other band, it was like an uphill battle all the time. So it was kind of a healing thing for me. It just felt good when I left that band.

I didn't want to just go commit to what he was doing. And we were trying to get like a project off the ground. It kind of was just like, I'm going into this weird in between space and I try to find something. And then that band, it just took off so fast. Because I left it and I was able to commit to him, it just took off. I resisted it for honestly, like a year. I mean, we were going to Australia for a huge festival and sold out shows and stuff. And I was still like, nah, this isn't it. Like this, I've been burned by the industry too many times. I don't take this seriously. And so finally, I went on that stage and heard the roar of people and saw them and was like, oh, okay, this is real.

They like us, they really like us.

So I kind of put that in between space that I was in where I was trying to find myself and try to find something. I put it on hold and blasted off on this wild ride through that band. And so the first, first two years of that, I kind of went, we got back, we had a break and I went to Costa Rica by myself to try to find myself. And that was a great experience. I kind of settled down. And I think that is the juncture where I was like, okay, this fame shit, keep one leg out. This is going to be weird, try to stay stable in this. And so I continued to kind of go forward and just became very passive with most things, recluse to bit, wasn't super involved into the band's aspects of writing and all that stuff.

I was just kind of checked out. And at a certain point, it started to just become overwhelming. Like I didn't identify with my character in that band in a weird way and I didn't know who I was or if I could find that or what. And that's when a lot of the depression started to come in and I started to just become kind of a like real, awful person to hang out with in a lot of way. And my, so my previous wife or my ex wife.

You need to be ex-wife. Is that what, that's what I, yeah, I know. It's a term. But it's weird.

They pause, just to be clear, they pause divorces in New York. Like they actually like are not accepting new divorces right now. So like we're in this weird limbo, like have a settlement agreement, have all this stuff worked out, but like can't actually do it. And I had her, I saw a reading by Rodin water baby tarot that was like for Sagittarius new moons and she was based, or moons. And she's basically like, yeah, get ready for 18 months or like 19 months of like just working through shit where people think you're an asshole, like where this is going on, there's gonna be this energy and it's this whole fucking thing, man.

So I.

Her reading, her reading for me too, for the Capricorn reading was just like shit right on, man.

Yeah, it's so crazy.

So I, she actually was the one, as I was starting to try to process a lot of this stuff, to be honest, she was confused by it. And mostly she had her own thing. I wasn't giving her enough attention 'cause I was trying to find myself. I was like at the bottom, you know, I didn't want to be here. And so that was its own issue. And but she was still really good at like sending me little things of little carrots to follow that like she thought maybe we're in that line of what I was gonna do. And so she sent me, we were on our way to China for the first time with a band. And we did like a little tour in Australia, Japan and then we went to China for like two weeks.

And two things happened at that juncture. I mean, I was smoking a good amount of weed, but when I was there, I had to take a pause from that. And that did allow me to kind of really stabilize into like myself and not be kind of medicineed up and not totally in turn. I mean, I'm also weed, but we can talk about it later. But I, so that helped, that kind of kept my mind clear. And then she gave me a book the day we were, she left, we were in Australia and then she left and I was going on, so my girlfriend was with me and I'm part of it. Went to China. And so she gave me this book called The Power of Now, Eckhart Tolle.

Yeah, of course.

And I was like, okay, yeah, I guess I'll read this. I didn't really take too much of the stuff seriously from her 'cause she wasn't understanding like totally where I was at, but I was like, all right, I'm gonna start reading it. And then I just, I read it in like two days and it popped me out enough where I understood something about reality that I felt that was real. And at the same time, I had read a Bruce Lee book. I got drawn to Bruce Lee 'cause I was going to China and there was some quote he had that I was like, damn, he's got some like philosophical. And what was cool to me is that he was applying it to his art, which is martial arts.

And so that also I understood, I was like, I'm gonna try some of his tactics like within my art. I could see how it could work within music for me. So on that trip, the power of now kind of like centered me and like opened me up. And then that book was like an actionable tool to try while I was in the road. And I swear, I mean, like one show, I put those things into play and I blasted off somewhere else for that show and played things that I have never played before and like did things that I just didn't know I could do. And that was validation to me that like, okay, this reality is like super weird and it's not what I thought it was.

I'm gonna keep like searching for this. And so I got back home from that trip and just started hitting the ground running. I was I read like another Eckhart told book and then that led into me looking on YouTube for videos. And then I found Alan Watts and then went down to like, did all of that, absorbed all of his lectures, read a lot of books, got into Carl Jung through that and then Terrence McKenna. And I just kind of started weeding my way through whatever resonated in the time, you know, and not really listening to anybody. You should read this. I just kind of like followed my instincts.

Yes.

And it was just, I mean, it was like day after day, I was growing and like getting through things and just climbing that ladder. And that's really what did it. And then when I got into the Terrence McKenna stuff, obviously, you know, it's all circled around mushrooms and psychedelics. And I had been oddly enough, I had never been offered mushrooms in my entire life. No psychedelics really. I had been offered, you know, plenty of other shitty drugs and tried a couple of them. But mushrooms were the only one in my head that was like, I definitely want to try that someday, but I've just never been offered.

I don't even know where to begin to go get that. And I studied so much through Terrence McKenna with all about his like intention and, you know, do it in quiet darkness by yourself and all of this stuff. And I was like, floored by it. And I was like, all right, I'm going to do this. I'm going to figure this out. So I had a friend in town that was like the guy, probably that could give me mushrooms and sought him out, got some. And did, I followed Terrence McKenna completely, man. I did it, I did a high dose, I did five grams and did it by myself. My wife was supportive of it. She, you know, gave me space to do that.

And that was the beginning of like really feeling like I understood like what, where I needed to go. I didn't know how to get there, but it was real. I was like, reality, what I thought, this is confirmation to that. And so I did a couple other trips spread out over a couple of months. Again, always by myself alone and just, you know, bad trips, good trips, but understood that it was my mind. It was all me and that those bad trips were not to be afraid of, those were actually, to me it's not, there's no bad trip, good trip. The bad trips were more transformative.

Of course.

I just had to be willing to go into that and accept that. And so, yeah, that was kind of it, man. And then it sucked me in. Like I just, I can't, I couldn't stop, you know? But a big part of it, one of the biggest lessons is in that was that I was mentally doing that for a long time again. And then I, probably a year of really doing that, and then I had a trip with a friend in LA, a really good friend of mine and his wife actually. It was a little smaller amount. And I was kind of more trying to like sit with them. But she at one point in the trip, like, it was kind of settling down and she came over to me.

And she's not the one that I would think that was like totally intellectually understanding a lot of these things. But in that space, she kind of came over to me. She just, she even told me, she was like, I don't really know what I'm doing here, but I think I need, I want to follow an intuition. Can I do something with you? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, basically walk me through this meditation and intuitively somehow knew I was like, doing all this shit in my mind and I wasn't bringing it down in my heart. She was just this really stable, feminine energy. She guided me through and like, hold the stuff down from my head and was like, just bring it into your heart and feel those things.

And I'm like sitting there like in my head, just like, yeah, you don't know what you're doing. Like this is okay, I'll like play your dumb little game.

Yeah, of course.

I don't need to feel this. And then I was like, oh, oh, oh my God. I felt it man. And then, and then I was like, okay, I, damn, I've been wasting all the time. Like let's just start feeling this stuff. And then again, that just sparked everything really quick. And yeah.

Well, it sounds like the Divine Feminine peaked her way into your life. Do you know your astrological science and all that?

Pretty much. I mean, I'm Capricorn Sun.

What's your moon?

Fuck, I don't know that.

Ah, you got some more in touch with the Divine Feminine to go, you don't know your moon offhand, my friend.

Yeah, totally. I've always got work to do.

Do you know your, your rising?

Mm-hmm, no.

I'm gonna give you a reading later, I'll fair. Dude, so yeah, man. I mean, I know what that journey is like. It's basically dropping the parts of us that wanna manicure and control our persona and our existence and just like pushing out beyond into the deep waters. That's why I think people find psychedelics so useful. I, I don't think they're a panacea. I don't think they're a cure all, but I think it gets people relatively familiar with leaving their focused sense of identity behind for a little bit. You know, you kind of always tether back. It's a beautiful thing. Some may view it as not if they like that other state more, but it loosens the boundaries and shackles of what you're tethered to and enough that you get a glimpse of like another way of being that I lived in for like a very long period of time.

I think I like got the truest glance fit like 20 some years ago, 18, 20 years ago, but I snapped back into like a very crystallite focus like 3D world until about a year and a half ago when like I fucking figured out at least how to create a bridge that is, it may not always be the most stable of bridges. You want to drive, you want to drive a tank over it, but you can get across it with like a fucking person, a bridge between your conscious mind and your subconscious mind. And this is as simple as like if we think of energy as your conscious mind is masculine energy, it's objective, it's rational, it wants to figure things out A to B to C to D, that's masculine energy.

It's not a gender thing. It's just like this is how we do it. It's wonderful, it's directing. We can say, hey, I want this, I'm aware of this, I'd like this. Then we have the subconscious, right, our intuitive heart, which is feminine, which is irrational. Not like it's doing crazy shit, but there's no, you know, it doesn't have to make sense, right? It doesn't have to put subjective. It's how we feel. And it's basically the aspect of ourselves that really creates reality, right? This is a union classic 101 is that what you conceive of as yourself is such a limited little dot relative to this entire spectrum of awareness don't make the mistake that you're running the show.

However, I really think, and I think a lot of people are waking up to this, they recognize as their awareness scales up, they can kind of direct the compass of their conscious mind towards what they would desire to feel. Like everyone wants to feel fulfilled. Everyone wants to feel happy. Everyone wants to feel what you're feeling, but I see Jess is feeling what I know I'm feeling and a lot of other people in my life, like you're in the right place, doing the right thing with the right people, feeling the right things. Like that's what everyone is craving, but what is really important I think for a lot of people to recognize is you can direct that.

You don't have to assume this external reality is pinging you back into these other things. This is what I know you and I are both going through with the divorce is like there are so many roles being projected out onto us every single fucking day. I mean, dude, I went through it last night like as intense as it's been, but what I'm sure you're realizing is what I'm realizing is you get a little bit stronger each time, you get a little bit better at reacting. You don't buy into the same narratives that used to bind you and make you feel shitty and you go, you know what? This just doesn't feel good.

I don't love this. That's just like, I don't have to feel bad about it. I'm a good person. I know I am and you get better at like rejecting other people's roles, which really just like paradoxically allows you to bring in all this other good shit. It sounds new agey and insane, but I know you know, like as you do it, it feels like, you know, you're being guided by something but it's you. Like you're literally unveiling the carpet for yourself.

That's what's the most tickling thing to me, man. And a lot of this seeking I've had these moments. I in my like, in my nature, I love a good game. I love like some mystery and I love like tricks and stuff and life and I've always been drawn to like magic as a kid and illusions and stuff. And when I started to really understand that this is like all, it's all about your perception. What you kind of believe in life will come true and you can start to direct it. And I would get myself in these little like down these little rabbit trails that I'd kind of be looping on something. And then I would see, I'd like be in the car.

Like I'd always listen to lectures or podcasts in the car. And so I'm driving and then like something happens and I'm like, oh my God, I see and I have some clarity. And then I remember the first time it happened, I was like, that was really fucking tough to figure out. God didn't, why is it so hard? And then I was like, oh, it's because I love, this is what I love. I love a good challenge and I love a good maze to get through. And I could feel like my higher self, this other thing laughing and being like, yeah, that's what we do, man. Like this is gonna be hard, but that's why it's fun. And this is a such a complex game, like saddle up, this is great, like don't ever be, you know, disempowered by the complex nature of this and the labyrinth that you're in.

You put yourself in this labyrinth for a reason. And I was like, damn, this is gonna be so fun. Like, and I just kind of like padded myself on the back and I was like, this, you got this, it's all right. Like you're gonna fuck up, you're gonna contradict yourself, but it's all part of it. And it's so empowering to know that it's you.

You know, man.

And you just, what you want, imagine it, what you, and there's balance in a lot of it. You know, you can't, I find myself now, like really understanding the power of imagination. I don't take it lightly. If I'm in a moment where I know I can, I have energy and power to like really manifest something, I'm not gonna like imagine something I don't want. Like 'cause it is gonna come true. So it's not to be taken lightly, but there is a really awesome power there. And if you can synergize that and stabilize it, it's magic, man. It's like what I wanted as a kid when I saw David Copperfield, like make something disappear.

It's gonna move to that. It's gonna really be, magic's fucking real. Are you kidding me? Like everybody told me when I was a kid. It's an illusion though. Like you have to learn the tricks. Like, and I was bummed. I was like, it's not real fucked.

Right, like every little kid is like, they're like, you're telling me the shit is real. I just wanted to be Magneto when I was a kid and like move shit like that. And like honestly, that pills in comparison to what is actually going on here. We're like these specters of consciousness and energy pretending to be bodies, like interacting. And like we do it for cool fucking reasons too. Like also, I'd remind anyone listening and you and anyone else, like the deal you make to be a human being as a limitless omnipotent being, which is what we are at our core. The deal you make to take on pain, suffering, death, perceived death in a very like poignant way.

Like that's not like a light deal. That's like doing some, that's like a real fucking thing. So it's bad ass number one. So just to be a human being, you had to make a bad ass decision. That should give you some confidence that you're doing something great. But like we get to choose how we communicate deep and profound lessons to ourselves. There becomes a point where what the Buddhist would prefer to is getting off the wheel of suffering, which is nothing more than recognizing whatever situation, no matter how complex, no matter how hard, like you're describing, it's fun. There's energy there.

You get to fucking judo flip that. You get to Bruce Lee, like one hand, one finger, smash that shit into oblivion when you get it and it's bad ass. So like, yeah man, it is fun. I think that's the thing that I think is becoming more apparent that the tension needed to propel us upwards towards a more fulfilled and content state of being, that tension doesn't have to be stress. It doesn't have to be like crying this down, like ugh. It can actually be fun. It can be music, it can be sound, it can be comedy. It can be these things that build the tension in the same way and you still get that same release, but it's a laugh or it's like a part of a song that you really love and yeah.

A laugh, human humor seems to be one of the most healing things amongst all of this. I love Alan Watts' description, the rascality element of, he's in a poetic way, the like irreducible rascality.

He said that, he said that of Carl Jung. He said that when he was talking to him, he saw this glimmer in his eye that showed him that he understood the cosmic joke of everything. And that glimmer is now in a lot of people's eyes and I see it every fucking day and it's the coolest fucking thing because people get like, it's not a joke, like don't distance yourself from the suffering of other beings who you have awareness of, but like is a fucking joke, man. There's so many hilarious things that happen just in reality every day that I mean, you have to understand it's a joke and not to be taken too seriously or you will crystallize this state of being that is uncomfortable, that's about it.

It's not gonna fuck your shit up really in the end, but it's just uncomfortable.

Yeah, this is, I think really, there's a time right now, comedy is becoming, it's blossoming into this new thing, honestly, I think a lot of thanks to Dave Chappelle and what he did where he like stood up against the gate system of, you know, his show being shut down and he said, well, okay, fuck it. Then yeah, let's get rid of it and he started his new thing and powered himself and paved the way for comedy to still come to life and not be tethered to this gate system. And now when we're all in this state of like, especially now the coronavirus and everything being like we're stuck at home, comedy can really relieve a lot of these things and especially if the comedy has genuine like good ideas in it, like what Jessa does where she's like so sacred crying and stuff where there's, she has like such a dark story that meth pills or like drinking her own peanut, it's so comedic.

But if you listen closely to that whole special, she's talking about like reality, she's talking about it's a game and some people won't get that, they just see the comedy and they're like, whoa, this woman's crazy, but the people that she has keys to will see that and be moved by in such a way where their mind is blown, they're intellectually understanding something and they're laughing at the same time.

Yeah. And it's also like it's a self correcting mechanism for, I don't wanna use the term enlightenment but lightening yourself, freeing yourself, liberating just your mind to be able to process what you want to, not in like some hippie-dippy sense, that you need people talking about drinking their own pee, you need people, you know, seeming like they're offering ketamine in literally every situation to be til off the wall to like purposely gait, like here's the truth. You know, it reveals that I do have a sense of hierarchy and duality here is that not everyone can fucking hear this all at the same time.

Reality is already crumbling beneath its own weight because our perception has been kind of like gated and funneled towards certain systems that are clearly just breaking apart the seams, whether it's the economy or like whatever it is, it's just like it doesn't make sense and everyone knows it. To reveal that, hey, like whatever you think about will actually happen, it's like if enough of you start believing in aliens, they're gonna show the fuck up, like that doesn't need to be revealed to quite literally everyone but if you do it in like a funny or artistic way, there's a frequency there that literally is irresistible for people who are vibrating even if just faintly at that frequency that they just like pick up and it's like, oh, I get it, let me follow that thread, let me follow that thread and you get these bells that some of them ring a little louder and like, you know, it's like, cool, I like that bell, it sounds good, feels good.

I love it, man, follow about resonance.

Yeah, well, you know that, you're a musician. I mean, this is the funniest thing to me is just especially looking where you are. Everyone I know who I've met in the past two years has found themselves in some type of quarantine or the houses that they're staying at around a lot of musical instruments, like a lot, digital recording equipment, like I can't even tell you the like, hilariousness of just like random people who I don't even know that much are like third by instruments now. Like there's, sound is about to emerge as like a pivotal aspect of the new reality and I think people are really figuring it out and they've placed themselves in kind of the perfect position and wish to explore and expand these things.

I mean, and I love the idea of all the, as I was going through the self-seeking finding all this, all the sacred geometry and the value and like math and numbers and all this stuff. I, you could overlay that into like, I could go relate into my world of music understanding and know that like, damn, there's actually what I'm doing in my profession. There's a way to make music. If you're just considering like, let's drop all the trends and what's working on radio and I want to fit into that. Like, there is a healing nature in music if you can direct it in the right way. Find these frequencies that are not just like, they sound good, they're doing something to your brain.

Yes.

Final beat stuff, the certain frequencies that harmonize with your frequencies of your brain, it's changing you like chemically or biologically on the level and I, that's, I'm just like, I, funny enough, I've found myself primarily, I'm not like musically, I'm like, educated. You know, I went to high, I was in like a high, my high school wasn't drum line. It was like the dorky thing in band, but drum line, the drum line that I was in was so badass. I was like freshmen and they were all seniors and I had to like step up to the plate and I learned so much in that, but it was primarily rhythm and drums, it wasn't theory.

And I've learned enough theory to get by, but I find myself a lot of the music I make is this weird, these like, I think it's actually called micro tonal music.

Oh yeah, sure, this is what I've been talking about like the past week, people have been bringing it up.

I love it. And so I've found myself doing that and kind of being embarrassed by it because sometimes it would sound out of tune to my friends that are like high, like a classically trained, like, this is out of tune and I, you know, kind of, oh, yeah, well, okay. I just don't, don't play that anymore or whatever. For a while I was trying to like, I was shutting that off, but I found it to be so natural but I did that and I, because I enjoyed frequencies that were in between the common notes on the plate.

In between, the barto states of frequencies.

Yeah, you created this other feeling and it sounds like clown music sometimes. Like I've had a friend that was like, oh, I get what your music is, it's like circus music. And I was like, okay, that's a fucking hit on me, whatever. But then I kind of embrace that. And I was like, I think I am somewhat of a sacred clown nature to my, to my being. And so I started to embrace it. And then I found certain songs I'll make where I just lean into that.

Yeah.

And it creates this new sound that's like, doesn't quite make sense, but it feels good and it's doing something. And that's like, I'm just, I'm obsessed with that now and I'm trying to grow into what that is. If it's like, I don't wanna create vinyl beats and meditative music, but I do wanna create like a song or things that can feel good and they sound good on the, in our like trends and stuff. But it actually is also doing something on a subconscious level that some people recognize.

This is all I try to do with music. I think this is what I've been doing for a long time, but that's literally my only intention. I think when I've made music is the first threshold is if I'm making something, I have to feel it. Like it has to feel resonant with me on a deep, deep level, irrespective of any context that would ever be placed in. Like whether this is gonna be in a club or streaming or listening and have it like anyone else listen to it. It just has to like get me to that point. Once that happens, what I'm just learning to do is just not judge it. Just do it, stay in the flow or hoard it.

My partner really taught me more about this and like the few times we've been making music together. It's just like stay in the flow. Like don't get caught up trying to like go do it a certain way that you're used to doing like get the idea moving. And the shit that comes out of that, like that's art. That's what people want. That to me is like, I use him a lot as an example and I find myself talking about a lot, but that's what Kanye's been doing for like 10 years now. And the people, they flame him for it 'cause they'll be like these albums are incomplete. They don't make sense. And then you look back five years later, it's like no, they make perfect sense.

He was just stream of consciousness like well before people knew this and like summoning forth his reality. So to me man, like you just do what feels good. Whether it's music quote unquote or not. Like if that shit sounds good and feels good and you throw some stuff on there man, like that's it. That's it.

Have you heard of this? It's Brian, you know, and Peter Schmidt did it. It's called Oblique Strategies.

No.

I love Brian, you know though.

I'm gonna send one to you. 'Cause it's like an Oracle deck kind of but it's not tarot or anything. It's essentially like here's the one I have. I bring him up all the time when I'm trying to make music and get in the flow.

Yeah.

What he's doing is basically just providing little sayings and things to kind of get you out of your head and try something different. The last one for this week. It says discover the recipes you are using and abandon them. You know, and so there's really cool things that just apply to the studio. I pull it up, I put it in front of my computer and I keep that in mind as I try to like flow and get in it and it really, it helps a lot. I think I'm the same way. I really struggle to do, especially if I'm working with somebody and they have their intention is, I'm trying to write a pop song. I'm trying to get on the radio.

I'm trying to...

Yeah.

It's so difficult for me to work in that because they're resisting the flow of the room. And so it's super sacred to me. Like my space here, my whole property here is like a sanctuary for myself just to be able to constantly be able to get into that flow state really quickly and hold it as long as I can. When it leaves, I take a step back, say thank you. And then I don't try to force anything. That's really where the true things come from, the real art that can actually do something for somebody, it comes from that flow of state. But it's so sensitive, man, it's elusive, you can't...

Here's the thing, it is and it isn't. This is a radical sense to take with that state. But listen, if we're operating from the premise that imagination or consciousness creates reality, it literally eliminates nothing being difficult or like too difficult, right? So I've noticed that there are times where I should probably, it's more auspicious for me to make music, but I think of it like astrology. Like there are sometimes where the planets are lined up where it's very auspicious to do this type of thing, you know, it's in the eighth house and you wanna like reinvent yourself, this is a great time.

But it doesn't mean that's the only time you have to do it. You may have to work through it, but like you're always in flow. It's just we don't perceive sometimes when we get a little dissonance that that's part of the flow. We don't hear that as like John Coltrane playing some whacked out shit. That's like, of course it's perfect 'cause it's John Coltrane, but if some like five year old got on a saxophone and started blumbling about and didn't sound that much different, we'd be like, this is kind of not great. So like, it's really just a matter of perspective. I've found most musicians, me, you're a drummer, you know this, that there is this primal flow state that's just like this ebb and flow of pulse of this reality, right, that crystallizes this place.

If you just imagine yourself as constantly being in a state of flow, I mean, I'll be completely honest. I used to have, you know, when I'd sit down, maybe I'd work on something that would take me like an hour to really feel like I got somewhere. If I push through a feeling of like this isn't working now for maybe like five minutes, a happy accident or some miraculous like fuck up or something will happen, it'll be like, here's a song. Here's like an entire thing that you've always found hard to do. You found it hard to write a pop song. Here's the easiest way to write it ever forever. So like if you just like welcome that type of energy, this stuff just cascades out of you.

And then these things you hear in your head, these things you feel just start to flow out of you. I also think just like where we are collectively right now, I think like this Venus retrograde stuff related to music and like relationships old and new that reviewing period, this is like the fodder, this is like the seeds we're planning for the art that is to come. It's not like telling people to pause on making shit, but I've learned there are periods where like, it's really like get the experience, get the things in, can like get it really in you and then transmute that into stuff in like a very advantageous time.

And I think that time is like right around the corner. I think it's going to be there the most likely when people are having to stay indoors again in the fall in the winter, like what comes out of that cycle in like a year. I think like people like it's going to be pretty fucking nuts. And I also like just because I think it's definitely going to involve like you, me, Rameen, Jessa, like there's some weird shit coalescing here that like, some people will be like, don't talk about it. You're going to scare it away. It's like, no, it's like it's too obvious that something is happening. It's like the funniest thing to me, but.

They will, yeah, man. I agree. I think artists are, there's an open door for artists right now to empower themselves. And fuck these gate systems of the business and entertainment. I mean, I say that I benefited off of the gate system for 10 years. We had a, we're lucky to have a really good relationship with our label, but their motives are different than ours. Let's tell you what businesses are. And that's at some point that becomes limiting. And I think that there's a weird thing. A lot of those systems are beginning to fall or weaken. And that's why I like I'm doing everything to try to, and part of the podcast will be that it's just encourage artists to like, you don't need that stuff.

You find it in yourself, find your flow. And the more artists that do that like and build themselves up, you don't need the gate system, man. And then you have an ability to be malleable and move around with what art does. It's always never can be boxed up. And so that it puts artists in a better position to get further with their happiness and find a real genuine authentic creative space that's like fresh all the time.

Yeah, man, that's the way I look at like kind of the relationship stuff that you and I have been going through here is that it's not a bad thing. Those relationships weren't bad. They weren't negative, but they help calibrate you towards what you actually want. And the same way that like the systems that have evolved, like I really look at systems as neutral. Even ones that are like oppressive and shitty, which the music industry has been pretty much forever. Like it's been really bad. It's really never been about empowering artists and like letting them create in a free manner. That's not what it's been about.

Even that's not bad. It's just such a point on the spectrum that people don't want as artists that, you know, okay, we don't want that. We're now gonna move the pendulum to the other side where like we're more free. We can have that. And I look at like people who haven't achieved probably in their mind the level of success or claim that they wanted. If you look at it like that's frustrated and you can't do it and like it's not gonna happen, that's what you'll play out. But if you understand that maybe you've just been waiting for the right opportunity to actually have full creative freedom, talk about this with for me in a lot.

Like, 'cause you know, he's a really talented musician. He does the podcast, he obviously has his art. And we talk about like, we don't really feel like limiting ourselves. Like if I wanna make music, if I wanna fucking do live readings, if I wanna fucking, you know, fucking make up some weird shit and put it on the podcast, like I'm gonna do it. And 20 years ago, that wasn't really, you could do some internet radio or pirate radio shit, but you weren't gonna have that ability now. Now if you combine your like with being your authentic self with like following your passions, you pretty much have the Willy Wonka Golden Ticket.

Like you made it to like the candy place. Like you're good, just don't fall on the chocolate river. You're good.

Hang on to that thing, man. Don't let anybody else tell you. But we can give you millions of dollars if you come do this. It's like, try to hold your ground, man. I think like this whole past five months, all I keep saying in my head is from Braveheart though. Like, oh.

Hold the light, hold.

It's like in every situation, I'm just like, hold my fucking light stable, mark just hold it, hold it. It's so helpful.

I've tweeted that out so many times, like hold the line, hold. 'Cause it does feel like if you're someone who can process suffering and grief, not just for yourself in this game, but other people's, it is a lot of that holding. It's just a lot of that like holding that shit for other people, it's space, it's whatever you wanna call it. But the frequency of like, nosh, it's good. It's okay, like I know you're sending me some real gnarly fucked up shit right now, but nah, it's good. And I'm gonna remember that. Like it's a vibe, man. And like, I'm sure you sense this too. Like in five to 10 years, we're just gonna retrospectively look back on this and be like, oh my God.

Like, why did we even live like that for 30, 40 years of our lives? Like, what was that? Like, but it was us calibrating towards a better vision and better experience of how people really wanna live. Yeah, man.

Yeah.

I love it.

Dude, this is a, this is a, you know we could talk forever. Like I'm sure you understand that. I would love to, where can people find out more about your podcast, what you're doing? How are they connecting with you?

Well, so I just got it lifted up on iTunes now. So it's on the website SuddenPod, you can get it there. But then it's on, you know, all the other podcast apps now. I have it on YouTube as well. My YouTube's Mark Pontius, I believe. And then I Instagram, Fat Horse Ranch, Twitter, Mark Pontius. But yeah, I kind of just growing it as it goes. You know, I have the one episode out now. I've got another one coming soon. And yeah, I'd love to have you on at some point too, man.

Whatever, man. You know how it goes. Let's end with the three questions and the open-ended questions. Probably just start saying four questions. It's actually four questions. (laughs) What's your favorite color?

Green.

It's actually, it's called, what is it? It's like a light green, so it's a C-H. The American spirits, I used to smoke for a little bit and it's the light green box. Forget what the hell it's called.

That's a color. We can call it say the American spirits light green boxes. That is very specific. I'll find it out. I'll find it out and shout it out on the intro. What's your favorite number?

11.

Nice, cool. 11 dimensions. What is your favorite animal?

Hippo.

First hippo. There's like 200 guests or something. First hippo, why hippo?

You know what, I don't really know. I think there was something, I went to Africa when I was younger and on a missions trip, I was in the whole Christian world and I bought a little trinket off the side of the road from somebody who was making them and I was just drawn to the hippo. I grabbed that and then the hippo kind of just followed me for like 10 years. Like I come up, I'd be drawn to it. But to be honest, like a favorite animal, I'm such an animal guy. I was vegan for a while just 'cause of about animal rights and I'm not vegan anymore really. I mean, but-

What are you now?

I'm kind of just whatever, I primarily eat veggies, but here and there I have some chicken and fish. But yeah, animals, I mean, I connect to a lot of them. I'm also a bird guy.

Birds, man. What's up with birds, man? There's been some real bird energy the past like month or something.

Yeah, I think that's my galactic being too. It's somewhere from some bird.

All right, well, we were gonna wrap it up but you mentioned the galactic being shit. What do you, what galactic being, what's going on with this galactic being shit, man? Because all I know is like in the past month, I connected with Rodin and Lacey and all these people and they're like, what got are you? What got are you? What got are you? And I'm like, I don't fucking know. I feel like all the gods. Like what kind of weird aspect? I'm like, of course I'm the weirdest weird. I'm not actually weirded out, but I'm like, I don't know. I never thought about that. And so then I was talking with Rodin.

She's like, your thought. I'm raw, you're a thought. I'm like, fuck. That's why I feel like everything. Cause that's literally what thought does. Like I'm that, I'm that, I'm that, I'm that. So what are you? Who are you, my friend?

Well, I don't know. Before I say that, I don't, it's like a, when I'm trying to explain this to my friend the other day, that like really, he's awake, but he's not really in this. There's like a deeper, you know, these levels, you can really go to galactic aliens. You can go as far as you want. The way I actually, for me personally, I understand this, it's all energy. So we can base ourselves into these, in history, these galactic beings or the gods from different cultures and Egypt and things. But if I identify with one, what I feel like is it's in that moment and in this time, you can identify with that certain energy.

You are not necessarily like that.

Forever, of course not.

And but in this, these energies are kind of always happening throughout the universe, especially the big ones like from Egypt, these like massively powerful gods. It's just an energy pattern. And so identifying with that doesn't mean you are it, but you can, by understanding that God or what it was in that culture, you can find some congruencies within your own life. And then it helps you as a little bit of a road map. It's not final and it can always change, but it does, it becomes a little bit of an oracle to you. And I don't, for me, it's like I didn't really, I did have to have some other people that were more understanding of this help kind of hand that to me.

I didn't want to like be like, oh, I am that 'cause I can find my judging it and they were identifying with it. So Horace is the one that I kind of resonate with most right now and that's the bird quality of it. There's a lot of things within that that just like, as I opened myself up to, I didn't even want to consider, I'm like, I don't want my ego to take a hold of this. It's pretty cool, man. I think there's a lot of really helpful ways to identify with some of those energies. And like I said, it gives you a little bit of a road map. It could change in a year and maybe you hop out of that energy and now you're in a different one, but it's useful for the moment you're in.

So it's a really cool thing to connect with.

It is, and I'm really, really, really happy the way you said that because this is going to be the first episode that's out publicly where we're talking about some of that stuff. Everything else I put behind the Patreon specifically 'cause it's kind of weird shit. And I also want to be mindful that like, even though I have an episode literally teaching, I don't want to say teaching, but describing how to jump into different deity energy and animal energy in a different one, like, it is very easy. Jung was really clear about this, that if you let a powerful archetypal energy out from the collective unconscious, your personal unconscious, and you're not aware of what the implications of that in are in potentially over identifying or expelling or repelling or projecting, that you will dominate your fucking life.

So walking that line of balance and phasing in and out of the energies, but still being able to utilize them is incredibly important. Sounds like a very horse-like approach, too, just to be clear. Cool, man. Well, we're going to be doing a lot of fun stuff together. I already know.

Yeah, you got to come out here and make some music, man.

Yeah, dude. You already know. I was actually, we're talking about it doing a little potential trip in the not too distant future, so we'll definitely connect about that.

Oh, yeah, come on over.

Yeah, man. And guys, come up here. I tell this to everyone. There's some wild shit going on up here. It's really, really wild. Last question. What's a practical tip that's helped you in your life that you could share with people listening?

Hmm. Practical tip. I think it's really, I mean, I guess it's become my primary thing only in the last two years, but the feeling thing, it's just, it feels shit. It's not, especially as a man, as a masculine, whatever, that we're stuck in this toxic masculine culture. Even women, it's like we're, a lot of things are saying don't feel things, and it's not encouraged to be sensitive, and it is becoming bigger now, of course, within the spiritual communities, it's understood, but I, so many things I wasted in my life because I was avoiding feeling the depths of what was going on, whether it was sadness or grief or pain or anything, and it just, it really is true, there's, on the other side of that pain, is everything you need, it's the medicine that you're looking for, just stop avoiding feeling it and be brave and go into it, and know that you can get through it, it's the ticket to everything, it's just feel it, you know?

Dude, preaching to the choir, my friend, but always get to hear, it's a good song to be preaching.

Mark, this has been amazing, we'll do it again soon for sure.

I love it, man, thanks for doing all you do, it's inspiring. (upbeat music)

Thanks for listening to that episode, well, I don't have to thank you, you probably enjoyed it if you're listening that far, go check out Mark's new podcast, suddenly, is it sudden or suddenly podcast? Anyway, it's there, it's easy to find, there'll be links to it on everything, everything, Jesus. It's talking, it's not great when you do podcasts for a living and the talking isn't flowing, well, but anyway, you can find all the shit links on this, syncpodcast.com, there's an email list for this podcast where I put out a lot of this stuff, all the information you'd want to stay connected, what else we got going, the Patreon, that's popping.

Get us over 200, if you're listening to this, probably past May, 2020, we're already 200, it was amazing, what are you doing, it's great. What else we got going on next week, solo cast, we'll do a solo cast next week, live reading tonight, and then we'll schedule June's in a few days. Shit is good, guys, a lot of integration, a lot of stuff going on, change, we're calibrating. Get ready for other stuff to come on, it's okay. Shit's gonna get gnarly probably in the fall again, not a bad way, not a bad way, you're good. Stabilize your conscious this now, you're probably like, really like, there's not more per episode than like, what is it, like five, six thousand people on like a weekly basis who listen to it, that's it.

That's a very small subset of people, so if you're listening to this, recognize that like, you have this opportunity to calibrate real good, real quickly. Like before all this shit, like, you know, just feel fun. It'll feel fun, you'll be like, wow, shit, am I allowed to feel this good? Even as everything around me seems to be chaotic, it's controlled chaos, it's magic, we use it, it's great, it's wonderful, anyway, God, what a rambly day. Stay tuned for that, until then, happy imagining, I love you, bye bye. You can earn a $300 bonus when you open a new checking account at Walden Savings Bank.

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