Very Ape Synchronicity with Sean and Cass

Welcome to Synchronicity, got a good one this week with my dear friends Sean and Cass. Go check them out on the very 8th podcast. They also have a Patreon which is phenomenal, they have a Discord with a lot of cool people in it. There's some of my best buds. There's nothing really more to say about that. I think you'll enjoy this episode. It's pretty cool. We talked about cannabis, some other stuff. I don't even remember what we spoke about, but it was a fun time. I'm a little under the weather. I'm glad I recorded this week because I wouldn't have been able to record it this week. I clearly had the foresight to get that done in advance, so I'm glad that I did.

For people who have been asking about the group, imaginal groups we've been doing, there's probably a better way to say that. Those are open. You can go to syncpodcast.com/energy. Those are available for you. I know there's been at least a few people who have been asking. We did that in November. We had a group of 9 people, 10 including myself. It was phenomenal. The group stuff really seems to provide an extra boost of energy for those people looking for that. There's just something to it. You can go sign up for those at syncpodcast.com/energy. The Patreon is popping. We are doing bonus episodes every week.

Even when I'm sick, I got a bonus episode out. That's my dedication to the patrons. Livestreams, readings, all the fun stuff. You can check that out at patreon.com/synchronicity. I'm keeping this one short and to the point, don't feel super hot right now. We'll feel better in a couple of days. Tuck care of the kiddos who got some strep throat and passed it through the entire family. I know. Shit happens. It happens. It's not the end of the world. But please go check out Sean and Cass on their amazing podcast, Very Ape. They have been my dearest and some of my best friends over the past, like what, jeez.

Gosh, almost like 10 years. We're getting up there. So go check them out. Without further ado, here are the lovely Sean and Cass. That was not a good first clap. He's infamous for his really bad first clap. My first claps hurt me. They don't make any sounds, yeah. You know what? I started recording. That's fine. I don't know if you want to do something or say something. Do you want me to do something or say something? No. I usually do it before. I do intro. I want to ask you if you, because I was just thinking in the bathroom, I'm like, no one might be the only person I know that can go toe to toe with me on weed and hash.

There's other people that can, but they are being affected by it in a way that you're like, dude. You know, here's the thing. You, though, are like me. It's like, I can't tell if you're stoned. No one can ever tell if I'm stoned. I mean, you guys have built up a tolerance. I've seen you go a week without smoking weed and then you smoke a drink. I was just going to say, I was just going to say the other day that drink you gave me. Oh, yeah. First of all, I did not make the mistake of drinking near clay. I got familiar. But the first time I was surprised, it was like that must have been like 25 milligrams or something.

And I was obviously rocked and he's like, what is the matter with you? Like what is going on? I'm like, I'm creating. You got it. We need a new policy of you not telling your wives that I gave you stuff that's right. I'm rocking you. I didn't even think of that. Yeah. That's hilarious. Yeah. No, I mean. It's part of our naughty friendship is, you know, certain things need to remain awesome secrets. You guys, you guys know this. I have also been the naughty friend, right? You are looked at as the friend who introduces something naughty or you participate in naughty experiences. And I've been that person, I feel like, for most of my teenage and adult life because like we like stuff that is off the beaten path sometimes or like outside the laws of, you know.

Most of our friends have a partner that doesn't approve of us or them hanging out with us as much as they do. We were friends with this couple and we're friends with both of them and we're like, look, guys, this is rare for us. We usually have one of the partners that like secretly hangs out with us more. Yeah. We don't know what to do. We don't know how to does not compute. So what if you'd be mad at us for ruining the rest of life? I think because it's like we've always said like people are drugs like we've become psychedelics. Like people get around us and they start thinking about other possibilities and they might change them a little bit and a lot of partners don't like that.

They're like, I got this motherfucker the way I want that. Locked. Yeah. Don't start introducing other concepts to their life. Don't start talking about troubles and psychedelics and traveling and I've heard this before. I mean, yeah, I think when you are like thinking, it's basically like your vibrational frequency, right? Like when you're at a place where you're kind of like doing things that maybe aren't fitting into conventional viewpoints or like what is good and what is bad. That naturally like what you're saying being psychedelic that naturally I think is picked up by people subconsciously there can be an ease there can be like just like an interesting curiosity thing.

It's charisma, whatever you want to call it. But yeah, that can be unsettling to people because it's like, what the fuck is this? I don't know how to process this. When someone says, you know, there's a power dynamic potentially in any situation, like that means they're thinking about power. I don't know when I'm thinking about power dynamics, maybe in like interviews from long ago or like, you know, some important thing, but like in regular life, I don't think about power dynamics. Yeah. Add that as a layer of things to think about fucking forget about it. Yeah. It's wild out there guys. I mean, it is happening though.

So it's like, are you going to look at it or not? And it's also maybe it's a like, you're in a good position in the power dynamic and that way you definitely don't look at it. There's been like the best way to be and I'm not saying everyone is naturally like this, but just to like be free in conversation and stuff, like it's so much work to constantly be. I think about this all the time because to me, it's literally a waste of your time. I saw this probably a TikTok. I don't have TikTok. So they filtered to me in other ways, but where are the other ways cash showing you something you don't know?

I don't know. Instagram. I don't know. Instagram maybe. But just later TikTok. It was this hospice worker. Like I've worked with so many people and saw them in their final days and final moments. And a lot of times I was the only person there with them. And the biggest two regrets people expressed were, I wish I would have been my authentic self more. And the other one is, I wish I would have worked less. Worked to last. Well, we're trying to live by that now accidentally, but accidentally, I was going to say, I'm doing that. You become unemployable. You become ungovernable. You say, sometimes when you do that for the person who's on their deathbed thinking that that's also uncomfortable.

Yeah. It's not like it. Yeah. Yeah. All of a sudden I wish I would have worked more. Yeah. I wish I would have been a little less authentic. Yeah. Exactly. That's going to be my regrets. Yeah, man. I mean, that's that makes sense that that's what people think about when they're dying because you get that like summed up linear experience. It's I mean, I think about it like, wow, that that was it. That's what it was all about. I think it was be closer with your friends and family too. There were like five of them I really I saw this thing was just like, here's the two takeaways I have from my whole time being a hospice worker and I was like, damn, that's fucking awesome.

I think the authentic self is a really powerful one because you're like, well, how could I be anything but my authentic self? And there's like, oh, if you're suppressing something you want to be doing or pursuing in life or a way you want to speak, you're honest truth. That's like, there's a lot of ways we I think I probably have just I just have done it. So it's hard for me to look at people who are like, oh, I'm not being authentic to myself. I'm trying to understand even where that even comes from. Yeah. I can relate to that. I kind of feel like that sometimes just in the sense of like potential, like is a weird word, like how you think about what you could do because you kind of know you could do it.

But then for some reason, like that's what all like life is, by the way, it's just accepting that this is something you're going to pursue in some fashion and then to the degree that you pursue that you get the result. We do that anyway, right. That's the whole imaginal of whatever it is, is we're doing we're consenting and dissenting to all of these things all of the time. And I guess like for authenticity, I look like at the subconscious layer is like, that's kind of generating stuff. So how can I communicate with that to kind of evoke that? But sometimes it's also like it is just frustrating and like you kind of have to sit and let stuff come up and allow them to be because otherwise you take that with you even if like you do kind of make a change and being more authentic and doing what you're wanting to be doing.

But yeah, I mean, authenticity and acceptance, I think, go hand in hand the way you just described it. Otherwise you're playing a game of whack-a-mole. That's what I was talking about. Yeah, and things are going to pop up and you're like, oh, I don't want to deal with that. Like I'll just I'll suppress it with chemicals or with distractions or whatever. And you know, to me, it's kind of like, like what you were saying like about like, I'm financially stressed out. It's like, it's a block to that feeling of presence and authenticity. So it's like without changing anything but your mind, can you pop out of that?

That takes a lot of fucking discipline, man. It does in practice. And I think that's usually the experience most of us are giving all of the time. And it's like how because there's an ease that comes to that authentic self. You don't have to put on airs. You're not trying to impress anyone. You know, you're trying to be what you're bringing to the world, which hopefully is like, you know, curious, interesting, fun, whatever the qualities you want to evoke or like be. And that's that's easy when you don't have to worry about all of these other things. And I think, you know, that's, that's not always easy for people in interactions because a lot of us, you know, aren't always like that with ourselves.

Like there are these battles and things we fight in our head of like, Oh, I wish I was this or I wish I was that or I can't do this, sometimes we don't even know that's what we're saying. It's just like flashes and you're like, okay, well, I can't do that. And it's like, wherever you can, like, why couldn't you? So it's like tapping into those. That's why I was like the catch a mood philosophy, like I really subscribed to that. You don't have to embody your ideal in like felt experience 100% of the time. That's like a difficult task for people. That's, that's like, you know, you're probably not here.

Take it into like baseball terms, like they're very successful. If they're successful 30% of the time, I know. And 30% would be amazing. That would, yes, you just have to catch a fucking mood. That's why I think when you were talking about weed and how like, you know, we can smoke a lot or do a lot and still function pretty, you know, clearly, because we're so hyper masculine, probably when we're not on it, I think that's a big part of it. There's a balancing aspect, but, you know, shit comes up when you smoke weed or engage with cannabis. That's where people get their paranoia and anxieties from and I get those two.

It's not a suppressant of those things. It's not a suppressant. I think you guys are, I like, honestly, I'm like, I was like, because I get so self conscious, I'm like, how could you believe it's almost like you're either going in and through it and you want to go in and through it, which I do sometimes, but other times I'm like, I don't, I don't have the strength to go in and through it. I just feel like it is kind of like, it makes the liminal boundary between your subconscious and conscious mind a little bit more easy to penetrate from the conscious side. Like you're getting these things that maybe they're fears or whatever and it's not always bad stuff.

Sometimes it's like, oh my God, I love this so much. I'm so excited by this. This is so cool. Whatever it is, but that barrier seems to get looser with cannabis and I think that's like a sacrament. That's a blessing because even if it's not like comfortable all the time, you have awareness of it, which is far more important than actually like what you're going to do with it in that moment. You know, it's there before it's just probably, you know, influencing so much of your actions and your thoughts and you just don't know. And so like as a long time cannabis user and smoker of, you know, I just got used to it because I had a lot of friends.

I'm sure you do too. Like who just stopped smoking one day because they either had a bad experience or the anxiety got too much or something like that and they're like, yeah, it just, it doesn't feel good for me. And I'm like, of course, don't do it. It doesn't feel good. But I've always found it to be particularly useful. Well, for me, it kind of hits like not the mute button, but the muting button on my judging mind. So it makes my experience here a little nicer. My judging mind is first has its site set on me. Yeah. So like I used to have a lot of stomach problems till I discovered weed because that's where my anxiety would mess.

That makes sense. And but it's the same thing. It feels like part of my Mercaba out in the world because when I'm, when I'm a little bit high, like everyone's a good time, it's all a good time, it's all funny. It's like, you know, it's, it's just like an added layer of protection for me. I mean, when you've described it to me as like, oh, it's like feminine and you're very hyper masculine and like you need it to be a softer person. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're hard on yourself. You're hard on us as a unit. Yeah. You're just like, who the world, everything, it's like that's the vibe, you know, so it's like in order for you to be like as live as kind of an existence as you want.

It's almost like you do need the paranoia or whatever it is to be like, hey, humble yourself. Yeah. Well, I also think that that if that, if we'd has this effect that it has on me on other people, I can see why it terrifies people because they don't, they don't want to hit muting on that voice. Right. Because that voice has become the tight rope. They're walking their whole life on and all of a sudden it's like getting shook by feminine chaos. Yeah. And it's like, oh, is something weird happening here? What's going on? Yeah. It's super meta and it's, it's very interesting to watch because I know it's temporary.

It's kind of funny. Yeah, it goes away. It's like the cop calling up on the weed brownie saying, I think we're dying, like one of the best videos. We're definitely dying. Time is going really, really, really slow. It's like, dude, you're a cop and you took ed and you're playing. Yes, exactly. That's the experience you're having right now. And you can hear the 911 operator realizing that these people are fine. Is there any other, more beautiful example of karma than the way weed affected a cop, a person who's probably ruined lives over this plant? And then he's like, he takes it and he's like, oh, I'm dead.

I'm fucked. Yeah. I love it. It's, I really do like weed. I think it's great that it's more readily available, but I will also say the strength of weed today, not like I love it personally, but holy shit for like a new entry. Like I was when you're like swag and dirt weed back in the day and I was getting rocked by that. Like, imagine like you step into these like you're in the deep right away. Yeah. Totally man. Yeah. Weed. I love it. What can you do? Shout out to weed. Shout out to fucking weed. Cannabis hash. However you get it. I'm a, I'm a dab man these days, except for, for this, uh, little afternoon of podcasting, I've been keeping my dabbing until the evening because Cass told me how much we were spending on dabs.

And I was like, I gotta fucking fall back for a minute. You got a heavy dab budget? I, yeah, just because this summer when we were out there making wild magic running around, um, it doesn't make me like stony baloney the way a bud does it. You know, it kind of feels like the espresso of weed. I'm like, ooh, cool. It is the espresso. Right. It isn't. I'm ready to fucking party and I'm not like stoned. I'm high, but I'm not stoned. It's cleaner. Clean. That's what it is. So it became like, yeah, we're shooting. I want to be in that like clean, buzzed, good place. And, uh, yeah, it just became a habit.

Robert, you guys are shooting what again? We're making a film called Wild Magic where we're, we're just, uh, we're actually just collecting like street wisdom a lot of the times, like we're, you know, it's kind of like the, the, the Grateful Dead song, Shakedown Street. It's like, don't tell me this town ain't got no heart. You got it. You just gotta poke around. Yeah. It's such fun. So we'll go into anywhere and just settle for a second. And with the intention of magic, that, that's what we're looking for. We're looking for wild magic, not some contrived Instagram form of this, not someone with hundreds of thousands of followers, like the magic in everyday interactions.

And, uh, we go into towns and we find those people and we have those interactions. So we're just right now accumulating a lot of that. That's awesome. It's like, it's like a thousand piece puzzle and it feels like we have like 750 of the pieces right now. I know it's not your thing, but like, do you think you would ever turn that into like a more tiktaki Instagram format because that shit sounds like, also you guys qualitatively, like we, we're all familiar with like those man on the street kind of like interviews and they're either far too contrived or like just like mechanically formula, right?

And that's like what we know them to be, but like anyone who's seen your films, anyone who's familiar with any of your work, like there is like a authentic magic that comes through in those films, and I feel like that would be good for people to see on a regular basis. It's just something. Yeah. So yeah, what I've realized since we're in the age of like tiktoks and everything being shorter is how many of our films are conducive to that. Yeah. So I just, like right now I'm in a process of like going through, we interviewed like 50 people for Florida man. So I'm just going through and like taking a minute out of each guy and putting them out as shorts and it feeds the algorithm, the algorithm loves it.

It's like throwing a little log on a fire without having to do anything except go through our old work. So, um. Which probably is kind of fun in some way. Oh, yeah. And the idea is that hopefully it directs people to actually watching the film and then getting a bit of that. Yeah. We're trying to get people with all kinds of attention spans, you know? I think that's smart because you can't fight what is going on with social media right now. You don't usually zoom out and think about it, like maybe we'll be like, well, I think I'm scrolling too much and watching too much of this. Like that's kind of where we tend to like center our awareness on it.

But if you think of it from like just a meta level there, like we collectively all over the world everywhere has this is this short form vertical video content. Yeah. And what that does to like your mind and your brain and your neural pathways is like we're aware of it, but like it's happening and we don't get like the adapted time to kind of think about what that impact and influence is. So yeah, people have typically shorter attention spans, especially if they're looking on their phone or something. They're not sitting down to watch something like. And even if they are, it's a two or three screen experience for them.

Yeah. So, you know, in a way, I hope this isn't the case, but we might be like, look back at like the types of films we make or anyone we can mention as a director has made and be like, oh, yeah, that was kind of like the silent era of films. Like, oh, remember when they used to make them in wide format? Like what? What were they doing? Right. Where people get so trained looking at vertical short things that it actually shifts the way cinemas looked at and made. I hope not. It is happening. I think I saw something in Tribeca that was essentially that there was like this weird, it was all a night vision.

And it was kind of shot. Like, I could be wrong about the aspect ratio, but I mean, it was like some for a into like a completely different type of experience. And I think it was polarizing, like people hated it and some people loved it. Oh, yeah. You got to go straight to the internet with something like that. If you go to the Tribeca route, you're going to have the industry looking at you and they don't like anything that's different. It might have been like Travis Scott's movie or something. It was like some weird thing. I'll find it, but yeah, I mean, it must be weird to think about this type of stuff as like filmmakers who make kind of like human interaction documentaries, too.

It's great because it gives us a layer between like, I don't know, like anything that's happening instead of feeling like it's happening to us, it feels like, Oh, here's a shifting culture that we're going to put a spotlight on through some weird characters. We find that really are like a good metaphor for it. So it feels like like just a little, that layer of protection we need. It's funny. I feel like we could have, we're just not an exploiter, we could have exploited it more earlier. This is the question. Yeah. Oh, American juggle. Oh, okay. Viral. Let me know. This is what I've been thinking about recently and we've had conversations about this privately too.

Like we tend to think of like self promotion or marketing or even using like a formula that we know will work. Like you have countless examples of seeing this work, whether it's social media or just like anything. And we tend to view that as exploitative, right? Like it's like tricking people somehow. And I wonder sometimes if that's like a limiting belief we have about what that is because like, I'm also willing to go to someone else and be like, Hey, can you help promote or figure out ways to like market and promote this? Because like it's not me thinking about it where it's just like this weird stumbling block for some reason, but I don't think it's really exploitative.

If it's like the if the core of what it is has that vibration has the vibe of what is being communicated. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I think what I was more trying to say is like it is really conducive to our work and we haven't exploited as much as we could like the the format though, like you want they're going to do it more because it's like, yeah, I'm just I'm just saying like we're just we're slowing the uptake because we're just going to do what we do want to what we do, you know what I mean? What I think we're good at. Yeah. And I think we're just like what we want to make the art.

We want an audience, but we want to make the art first and foremost. So some people focus on the audience before they focus on the art. Which is wrong in every example. Just for fulfilling. I don't even mean from like a financial or like success. I just mean like if you're making any type of art, which is ultimately a reflection of something in you, right, or you're you're noticing in something that you think is universal or could other people could appreciate. If you think of the audience first, you're eliminating that step of the finding the thing that resonates with you. You're not quite an artist at that point.

If you're thinking about them too much, you're an artistic opportunist and you can become an artist, but that moment happens when you turn on that audience that you've been thinking about too much. That's when that real moment of just like you just popped into another dimension. Now you're the artist. What keeps me calm is sometimes I look at people who have like a huge audience. I'm like, this is garbage. So I don't want whatever they have. And if anything, it makes me it kind of is like how you start thinking about people, you have these like weird limiting beliefs where you're like, well, people who have a lot of money, like seem to abuse their power.

So I don't want a lot of money. So it kind of feels like people with a lot of viewership. They kind of like, which is wrong, but I'm not I'm that's why I'm talking to you about it. I know I know people because I know that you like to help me unpack my limiting beliefs and like, and, but yeah, it kind of sometimes is like that is like, oh, they're putting out garbage and they're getting a million people to watch. So I would. You're equating it. So I wouldn't even just like, I, that way, if you were to get a million people, you're like, oh, this doesn't necessarily feel the same way. Well, it goes back to what we were saying about like being your authentic self.

Like a lot of that we learned when we were making this movie cam girls and they taught us about psychedelics, polyamory, all this stuff. But one of the things that they really imparted on is this one girl, Tasha, who's a sweet little stoner like us. And she was just like, I make sure to be my most authentic self when I go on here because like, I'm too much. I'm too lazy. I'm too much of a stoner to put on a thing. And if I put on a thing, I'm not going to want to do it as much. And if I'm my authentic self, I'm just going to find my people. It might not be a huge audience, but I'm going to find my people and I'm going to want to do this.

And it's going to be, you know, a give and take there, not just me giving, giving, giving my sexuality to people, and we were like, yeah, that's what's up. And we started the podcast when we were making that film, I became girls ourselves. We became, yeah, we were like, how do we guys are cam girls, we're all cam girls. Totally. We're all out here. Guys, you're the only fans now. I know. I know. No, I'm too old. I like literally turned 35 and I was like, yeah, it's never happened. I'm too old for this shit. Feet picks, man. It's a little bit there. Done it. It's done it from this part, from the podcast.

It's so cool. Yeah. That was cool. I think we spoke about this once, right? Like there was a reason like we weren't, you weren't showing your feet or something. I think this is at your place at one point. We spoke about this on something. Oh, yeah. When, when that, like you got to pay for this. When it was popping off, shoot cast was like, I'm not showing my feet on camera. Oh, no, I was showing my feet off more for a second. Yeah. Because I was like, in TICE. Yeah. Yeah, it was enticing. Look, I, what I said, when we talked about on the podcast the first time, we were like, yo, that trick's really hard.

Yeah. And so it's like, don't go in there naively. And I, when, I, I knew this and I still went in and I was like, well, I'll play around in the territory. And I'm like, I'm not a good business woman, like I couldn't do it. I just like. But when you are good at it is when you're kind of using it to fuel your sexuality. You're getting off on it a little bit. That's when I see you, you know, where it's working. It's working for your life. It's helping our sex. It's working for our sex life, but it's not necessarily leading to like, I'm not a good business woman in that realm. Well, you got to do it, right?

If that's like the, the girls on OnlyFans, like, who are successful or like, they decided to do that. That's something that they do, like you have to kind of like fully commit. I feel like to, to really like ramp that up to a, I had a lot of fun and we were in like a three person relationship at the time and so like, I was definitely creeping my own energy. Like, I was just like, there was something you needed a little extra validation when you're in a weird situation. Sometimes. I got it. I'm not even ashamed of it, but like, there are certain motivations that I think it was fulfilling me at that time and I'm so over it.

Oh my God. I just couldn't. I just don't even. But it did what it needed to do. At the time it was great. Yeah. I went in and through it and I'm glad that I went in and through it. I think that people should go in and through everything. Yes. I know sometimes I think that a little like, I think that too much because I'm like, well not what doesn't, I didn't mean this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, not this specifically. Yeah. It is funny though about the money and the limiting belief thing because I think we all struggle with this in one way or the other, but like, equating rich people who are assholes in the way they use their money and then saying, that's what happens when you get money or that's what money does to people.

It negates all of the people who have money who you don't hear about who are like really cool with it. And those people obviously exist. Those stories you hear about like this crazy, frugal janitor that when he died left behind 13 million dollars to send all these kids to college. Yeah. You know, there's people like that that are just out there, scrolling it away and they don't really have anyone to leave it to and they're leaving it to good people and they're doing good things with it. There's tons of people with money that are doing great things with it. Most of them, I don't think. I don't know most.

I don't know most. Like I don't know, money is such a weird energy and we're talking about this too like the past year, year and a half money has, I don't know and I didn't speak to anyone in 2023 who said it was their best year financially. Usually in a given year, I know a few people who are like really doing very well in some aspect of the world. It's not to say people aren't doing well. There I know people now who are doing well, but it's like, I haven't had those conversations. Most of the conversations have been about like, I don't know, like where the money's gone. Everything is more expensive.

It feels like. How did I ever make money before? Yeah. How did I ever have that feeling? Of course. How did I ever use to do that? Of course. Or you ever have that moment where you're like, I have to make X amount of dollars today. And if you were just like, oh, okay, so I need that. This is my bill. So let me break it down to like, buy the day and you're like, who pays me for shit? How did I ever make that much money because of the time for this? Well, also it's like, okay, I need to make in order for food, shelter, car payment, whatever it is, I need to make $200 today. And if you were like to say, if you were to just be on the street and be like, I have to make $200 today, you understand how people get into very desperate situations.

That's like what I like to examine that feeling you have when you feel like that. And it's one thing to be like intellectually aware of this. Like, this is what I deal with when I go through these things. I know this to be true. But the way you feel sometimes is so like, it's visceral, right? Like you can't escape that. I try to look at like, how do we modulate those types of feelings? How can we use some directive power of our conscious mind to kind of teach ourselves tricks or just, you know, whether it's taking in a deep breath to relax your, like, autonomic system, like whatever it is, but like, the feelings are what perpetuate the situations.

And it's like, I just know this from personal experience, because I've been blessed enough and have had times where I made a lot of money and it hasn't been isolated times, various points in my life. And the feeling you have then, even before the money is there is your reactions are not like, Oh my God, this is so much. It's just like, huh, I don't know how it's going to happen, but it's just going to be paid for. And it's like to actually live in that is the trick because that's what actually evokes your circumstance. It's not just for money. It's for anything. It's like relationship stuff. It's super important to, uh, to kind of try to remember that as much as you can, because when it feels like it's impossible, you can play around with that at least, right?

It goes back into the catch and move thing. You just need a glimpse of what it feels like. And then you have access to it at some point. And then you can try to figure out how to weave it into your like natural oscillations, which we all go through. Because you're super flowy and everything is really, any artist knows this too. You sit down to do your thing, whatever it is, and boom, it just comes right out. You're like, how the fuck did I do this so amazing the first time? And sometimes it's like, not that or not that at all. It's like a crafted, diligent, disciplined way of getting it to come out.

And you kind of have to know which tool to use at various points. And I think that's kind of what I've been learning over, especially over the past year and a half. But I definitely like the pattern of my life so far. And you can change patterns of your life, but I notice like I have cycles of my life. I have enough of it 40 years now where I can go back and be like, shit, there's some predictable patterns that I seem to be running. And like, do I need to run these? Are they something that's just, you know, into charts? And this is just my natural way of being. And I have to learn how to kind of deal with it.

Or is it something that I can actually completely? Yeah. I think you could become less reactionary. I think you need to start thinking of yourself kind of as like a cosmic surfer and weight out into the, into the seas of consequence. And like a surfer, like you're going to sit there and learn how to read like, okay, this is my wave. This is the one I'm going to get on this one. You're not going to judge the 50 that go past you that weren't right for you. So it's like you're out there and you're in the depths of being an adult and you got to learn like, oh, this is my wave and I'm going to fucking ride it for all its worth.

And that's what we do. And it's kind of like the baseball analogy. It's kind of like 25%, 30% of the time. It's like you can catch and really ride a gnarly wave and exploit it for all its worth. And then realize like, oh, okay, I'm just, I'm just paddling back out now. That's the stage I'm at. And just like I'm saying, just not judging the ones that are going by. Yeah. And like to me, now that I'm like getting into my forties, I'm loving my new self that's less reactionary that has so many data points that I can say, eh, this ain't worth blowing up about this ain't worth getting my panties in and not about it.

You're doing really good. Yeah. Yeah, I really do. But I've also like, I've made it so there's not a lot of things that could fuck me up. Yeah, that helps. Yeah. Like we have, we have a close family member that has a lot of kids and they're going through financial struggle. Husband lost, lost the job and it's like very like, oh my God, I made it to that list. That's like, you know. Yeah, it's very intense. There's a lot of kids and mouths need to be fed and this and that and it's like very intense and I can feel like, like, like my mom takes it on and it's just like, Oh God, it's so visceral. And then like, it's crazy the other day, my mom really put it into perspective.

She's like, yeah, it's all fun and games and I know we're all upset, but like they didn't lose the kid. She's like, I lost the, I lost the kid. I lost the kid. I'm still doing my thing. I'm, I'm okay. She's not saying I'm fine, but she's just like financial stuff. It's one thing. It kind of goes through their ups and downs like to me, the kid for this, the, the key for this family is to make sure the kids don't feel that. Exactly. You know, I grew up in a household where every month we heard about like, we're not going to make the mortgage payment. It was intense. It was so, that's probably why I had stomach problems that I need to find a single mom.

Yeah. Yeah. Just feeling, did you grow up feeling financial burden at all, like we're feeling like, Oh, it changed substantially. My mom eventually founded her on law firm in DC, like when I was around, I might probably like going into teenage years. Oh, she has got new money. So she, she wasn't like ever like a spend thrift. And like we didn't get a lot of new ship, but it stopped going from like, turn the heat off to like, you know, and you experienced that like when you were cognizant. Yeah, totally. Shifting like, Oh, I know what it feels like. That was being poor. Yeah. This feels different.

I don't like the way that was. And that's how I am. That's why I've always made a lot of money is because I'm like, I don't want to be like that. Yeah. It's important to, but then it also becomes somewhat conditional, right? That's what I've learned too. Like, I used to think that, you know, when you feel like money is really tight or it's really difficult to kind of like attract it or allow it to come into your being, you tend to make it like a panacea that's going to solve all the other things. And I think therein lies like kind of like what it's trying to show you is like it's, it's not really about money.

It's about some kind of narrative or story you're subscribing to that has money as a character in it. And that's kind of playing the role of what like, that's giving you anxiety or that's aren't just like, you know, the kids thing. That's what you realize with kids, like if they're happy, if they're good, if they're not stressed out, if they're not worrying, you're doing good. Like you are, you at the very least are not adding to, well, you won't in other ways. Don't worry. You'll traumatize your kids. There's no two ways around that. But you're not adding that kind of feeling in their life, which I think is like important to not try to extend that as a vibe, because that is the societal kind of cultural place of money since we've grown up and it's gotten more that, you know, and I'm not like you guys kind of like an anti-capitalist, I don't think it's capitalism per se.

There's an aspect of it when perverted makes it completely inorganic and inhumane. And I think we're unfortunately living in a lot of that as like a, you know, universal collective vibe. But I think people like having what you need at the times you need it, feeling like everything is going to be okay and like, it's going to be fine. You didn't lose a kid, you know, you're not actually going to end up. Well, and even if you do, yeah, it's going to be okay. That's also true. And that's a really, really hard pill to swallow. And if I hadn't been through it, I didn't lose a kid. I don't have a kid, but I lost my sister.

Yeah. You're going to be okay. It's going to be okay. It's going to hurt. But go through that pain, you know, it'll make you a better person. It'll actually give you perspective on a lot of the stuff we're talking about. And I think that's why, because I lost my sister right when I was going into like, I want to be a director and it just gave me everything I needed to do that. Wow, I'll live the life she didn't get to live. I'll get to travel. I'll get to do this and that. I'm really motivated by those things because I had already made money and it just didn't do it. Nothing was different. It's weird, right?

Yeah. I was like, oh, I can get the new headphones I wanted, you know, and rent's taken care of. But like, I was still deeply in grief and I needed an art form to pour my perspective into to try to move through the stages of grief and it helped a lot and it continues to help because that's all life's going to just keep throwing shit at you. It's the waves that feel like they should crush you, but you can learn how to ride those. Yeah. Yeah. And like our family that's going through this part, this problem right now, it's a tidal wave and it feels like it's going to wipe out a family and it feels like, oh God, we're like, you're bracing for impact and it's like, no, surf that thing, surf that, that's going to be the most epic journey of your life.

It's true. I mean, it's, it, it, it, and it is a hang 10 and listen, you may wipe out sometimes. Yes. So it goes good, has wiped out how many times. You get pinned to the fucking bottom of the ocean and it feels like insurmountable. Yeah, you're getting rocks and sand throwing up your fucking nose and like, oh, you come out and you're, I mean, as a kid, I wiped out so many times and like, it's okay to wipe out too. Yes. Like it is, you, you got up and you went back out there and you got to experience the ocean and it's a fucking dope place. Well, and that's the part of the problem with being in a culture that's so adverse to pain is that is like, we're not really coming out of the shell.

You know, it's like, it's like we're, we're, we're being infantilized by our culture. And there's something to deal with every form of pain instead of just like going in and through it. And we talk about shortcut culture all the time. And I feel like that's the best way to describe as a whole what we're in, in America right now. Everyone's looking for a shortcut to spirituality, to financial success, to love. You name it. Everyone wants a shortcut to it. And it's like, none of it hits as nice when you don't do the fucking work that goes into it. It won't last. It won't be sustainable either. That's what I also found like, here's the thing shortcuts do exist.

You can jump cut your life. You can change your mood. You can catch a thing. That kind of stuff. Yeah. It does. But what you're saying is also embedded in that if you shortcut, if you jump cut and you don't kind of allow the stuff that's there to come up because everyone has stuff, right? We unfortunately aren't usually very kind to ourselves and our head. Like we tend to like, you wouldn't say things to other people. And if you are saying very nice things to yourself, you're probably like doing pretty well and you're pretty good because you can also do that. But those shortcuts come with consequences that you might not understand because you didn't go through kind of some of that pain and suffering.

And I do think there's an aversion to pain and suffering that we naturally feel. We want to feel secure, comfortable, happy. Well, our aversion to pain is leading to suffering. That's the thing. That's like, and it's just like, oh, man, there's something so much deeper here and it doesn't nothing it doesn't have to become suffering and ultimate suffering. It can just be a painful thing that we have to take a deep look at as a culture and like move through these things in a more healthy way, but we're doing the whack-a-mole thing. And, you know, like, like we were saying before, it's kind of more fun to get into the bird's eye view of it and not feel in the culture or in the fray of having to argue about everything and stand up for this and that and it's just...

That's why I don't, I tried to the best of my ability not to give external anything agency or like control or like, because you're basically making it a deity, right? And it does boil down to just in my experiences is what I believe is why I talk about it. Your consciousness is God, it is the creator of at least your perspective and experience. There's no denying that aspect of it. You don't have to call it God, you don't have to call it universal creator or whatever, but that is your lens in which you view the world and you are creating that. It's how do you use that? How does that become a tool that allows you to kind of move through these dualistic experiences, which we know are good and bad?

Things of world where we live and how do you not give that kind of agency away to something that is completely out of your control? That could... People could say, listen, that's a coping mechanism. It's basically saying, hey, there are things that are outside of your control, you can't deal with that thought. I don't view that at all. It's not like you cut yourself off from the world and you see the impact things have on you. And at that point, how much is it going to come in and dictate your mood, your life, what you want to accomplish, what you feel would make you feel fulfilled as a person or feel like things are aligned in the way you would like them to be?

And to me, that's like, if you're not using that kind of ability intentionally, the blanks will be filled in. The world will give you any number of examples of like, this is how you should feel. This is what's good right now. This is what's bad right now. And it's like, is it? Is that really what's going on? Well, I think you so aptly have gone through such a good experience where you're like, oh, I have more than enough money. And you were like, that was one of the hardest times in your life. I would say probably the hardest. And I had nothing to do with my traditional struggles with money up into that point, which had also gone through ups and downs, but it just shattered that illusion that that was the thing.

And I think that's good for people who need that experience fundamentally to understand that. But you don't have to go through that to understand that. You can kind of, you know, realize that there might be something else that really is like kind of tugging at you, getting you to take a look at it and pursue something rather than just like money being disillusioned to your problems. Yeah, because it's always what I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I have X amount of dollars. It's like, no, like, then what you guys were saying about, it's going to be okay. I'm like, it is okay. And that has to, you have to bring it to this moment, not like, Oh, in that moment, after this happens, like, it'll be okay.

No, it is okay. You're breathing air. We're breathing air. We have air to breathe, shits to take, you know, whatever it is. We know this from dealing with, like, now we're living with my sister who has epilepsy. We had a grand mal seizure this morning. Fuck. It's such, it's such an intense crazy thing to watch someone to go through that it triggers like immediate grace. Like the second that the seizure's over, it almost feels like, thank God that's not happening anymore. Even if it's just, we're just getting a five minute break until the next one. It's just like, it, I've never felt moments more palpably than when the family's gathered around Caitlin trying to bring her out of seizures.

It feels like an LSD trip. You're like, oh, we're all here. You like, look at each other and like, okay, we're here in this universe and the universe is like the size of this room, you know, which it is. Yeah. Yes, it is. You know what I mean? That's what I'm constantly trying to remind myself. My parents of this household is like, there's so many things to get worked up about in this household. Seizures will happen. It's all happening here. We don't need to focus on Trump. We don't need to focus on the atrocities of the world. It's one thing if we had outrage to spare, but we don't. We really don't.

Like there's enough. There would also be one thing if your outrage was leading to action, but it's not. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think that's where I think it gets broken down. It's like, okay, it's one thing to be outraged and if you're going to channel that outrage into positive action and change and fighting for social justice, incredible. But if you're going to just lead it to conflict within a family household where there's already trauma on a daily basis happening, then you're just in a fear mindset that makes you very vulnerable to being preyed on by consumerist tendencies. The grifters, when you're in a culture like what we're in, you're saying where people externalize and deify, there's going to be people that try to fill in those gaps and they're just circling like vultures just waiting for your most vulnerable moment and they get so many people.

It's really just about siphoning joy and time and money from everyday people and their lives. So like we try to stand in opposition to that and like where I see it, that's what, that's what elicits my outrage. Not whatever the news is saying, Trump did, but that the news is fucking saying is even talking about this and then advertising, by the way, if you're depressed, you can take this thing which might make you suicidal and if you're suicidal, you can take this thing and if you're obese, you could take this thing which might make you depressed. That is the weirdest thing though. That's who's sponsoring our news media and it's no wonder that the news media isn't just reporting news, it's trying to make you feel a certain way so you take these pills.

So why do you think if you presume that it's a choice, we incarnated in the middle of this particular vibe and situation, which we can all look at and say, well that's something that's definitely happening. You just said, isn't happening, why would we do that? Personally, I think for Cas and I, because I'm the only people we know that well, is I think we've been through a lot in our past lives and we're chill people and we came for a chill go around and to show other people that the chill remains, which in the face of it all. Carries. So your past life was like when you were 22, you know what I mean?

Yeah, for me, my past lives were in this life and I just try to send chill back to that boy who was like scared shitless by the chaos unfolding. So yeah, I feel like that's at least right now what we're representing and trying to represent, kind of why we're here in this time and place. Also, you can reincarnate, if you're having past lives in this life, you can also reincarnate into a new life, you know, when you desire or when you are forced to or when something pushes you there, whatever it is and, you know, sometimes we get pushed off the cliff. Like I think that the fool and the terror that dude is on the precipice, he's either going to jump and know that he's jumping in, trust falling into the void and who knows or something's going to come along and push him and, you know, that's just a different type of experience.

That's probably a little bit more scary if you didn't make the choice yourself. And I do feel like we, a lot of us, even though it feels like the world is so chaotic and, you know, the media that we get inundated with and the way we consume it now and now that it's on our phones and on our person all the time is like objectively like a very gnarly and difficult time to like be conscious and send to it. But it does kind of seem to place the importance on us kind of finding the things that allow us to not even just detach from that but actually follow what we care about rather than being shown stuff and reacting or, you know, having an opinion instantly on and identifying with it.

I could have made it through this whole pass through this life as Sean without tapping into that. My purpose is to be chill and spread chill. If I didn't choose the family I came to. That's why I believe in all that stuff. It's like, of course, if I was a chill soul, a jealous angel who wanted to come down here and take form and practice my chillness, what better family to get born to? A neurotic, a drug addict with a epileptic seizure, a seizure disorder. And sibling death. Sibling death. You sign up for that package. Yeah, just like where it's just like going to be decidedly not chill for so long that maybe you might not even, but that's where it all came out and that's where I'm like, oh, that's where I found my home is just having a rich inner life that eventually through films and podcasts and stuff we could kind of get out there a little bit.

But I think that's why I chose this family. And I think that's why things happen, that's kind of why I don't know if there's free will or anything because it feels like we chose these experiences and we chose, you know, you chose this body and this life that you incarnated into to evolve a soul that wanted to come down here and get evolved. So like, like Ramda says, like start taking the curriculum, you're here. Start taking it. What is your soul's purpose? How do we evolve to that place? And to me, and I think I've talked to you about it before, I feel like life's alarm bells and wake up calls are going to get louder and louder and louder to you fucking just address it and stop hitting snooze and throwing things at the thing and you just, you address it and you wake up, you know, because that that's what the alarm clock going off wants you to do.

It doesn't want you to keep hitting snooze, it'll let you, but it doesn't want you to keep hitting snooze. It wants you to get up and turn that fucking thing off and start your day. And it'll get increasingly more uncomfortable. Yes. Exactly. And like, and I've seen it. I've seen it with my own father, people who just ignore the wake up calls time after time after time, they just get louder and more intense to where you're just a broken shell of a 70 year old man with all these addictions, no coping mechanisms whatsoever, just, or just a ball of reactionary goo. And it's just like, this ain't the way.

So, and I'm, and I feel like that's why our circumstances brought me back to that household is, is to spread that and their lives have gotten so much better. That's amazing. Yeah. And it's not from us lecturing them. It's just from. Of course not. It's just chill. It's just actually chilling. It's funny because I'm like the opposite. I'm like, I just was born into an earth body with earthy parents and just kind of like, like what you were asking me about, like when you were talking about being authentic or not, I'm like, I don't know, I've just always, this is kind of like, I didn't have to push up against something to be chill.

You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah. That's cool though. Yeah. I mean, it's too, too past to the same point. It is. But it's cool because like, I am my parents when it comes down to it. So you can check me when I'm. But also then I can be a rock for you, you know what I mean? And I think there's no coincidence that I came into your life and that I need, because I'm so like, yeah, things are chill, I'm chill, like I need the fire in order to even feel like alive. It causes such a water under the bridge type of person that like, I couldn't, I couldn't 3D print AI design a better being to come into my family, you know.

Always into interesting how that happens in the way it's the ways. Yeah. I'm also. Just somebody who's just like, oh, whatever, if that happens, don't dwell on it, moving on, you're forgiven, don't work. You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. It's, I couldn't think of a better person to have come in and help heal my family, because we definitely needed it, you know. Yeah. And I guess like, you know, you accept that on a deep level before it shows up in some weird way, and then something comes in and validates that, like, you know, it's the medicine you need. And if you don't know how, that's kind of what I was getting at before, like, for 2024, I just have this, like, I know the vibe shifts substantially.

I don't know in the grand scheme of all of the years when we look back on our lives, we'll say 2024 is like the best year ever, but it'll feel like a big shift compared to, I think compared to the past couple of years for most people, from what I'm gathering and speaking to a fair number of people, it will qualitatively feel lighter, um, and there may be a little more clarity for people and just like feeling a little more aligned, which we'll feel like a lot of line compared to. I just think people have been completely thrown for a loop, um, and you can look at it just from strictly like from the pandemic and like lockdowns and isolation and digital, all this stuff.

But I just think collectively, like energetically, it's such a transitional period, how like consciousness is shifting. Yeah. It's such a rapid rate now because of the interconnectedness of people are waking up so fast. Yeah, it's waking up, but it's falling asleep. It's also getting sidetracked. It's, you know, any number of things now can completely, you know, grab your attention, which is like unprecedented. You have to like go out and pursue things pre-internet, like if you were interested, you went to the library or something to check out a book on that thing. Like it's, it's just different now and it's a different way of, yeah.

Yeah, a lot of people can get information really fast, but then also they're very vulnerable to getting misinformation very fast. And the line between those two things is sometimes purely subjective. Yes. Unfortunately. You know what I mean? Like, that's the weird thing about just, I mean, it's, it's going to get more blurred, right? Like we see with the AI and the generative stuff, like they're going to be fake copies of people all over the place in a few years. Yeah. 100% what's going to happen. And like it's like, what the fuck do you do then? Well, I think, I don't know, but I feel like we're all here to serve humanity.

And we just have to figure out what our flavor of it is. Maybe even not humanity earth, the universe serve a harmonious universe. And sometimes you can get into a shame loop of like, shit, they're doing so good by informing people. Maybe why should I be an informer and not as good about them? I'm not as good of a, for harmony because I'm not being an informant. And it's like, no, that's their role. Like someone is really good at disseminating information, getting people excited. That just because that's not your role doesn't mean that you can't be, you know, serving a more harmonious universe where there's more peace and love and everything.

And it's just like kind of listening to yourself and your authentic self to figure out what your flavor of that is and own it. And at least I feel that's how I feel good, like serving Sean's family. You know, just. And I feel like that's what's at the heart of a lot of the confusion, at least amongst our community, even like yourself stuff you were saying, conversations we're having this like confusion about like, what should I do? Yeah. Like, yeah, I do think it comes from the waking up because there is a moment after everyone wakes up where you're kind of groggy and confused. Yeah. You know, what I do as soon as I wake up is meditate and I'm not as groggy and confused afterwards and my life just or my day starts to take on a certain inertia and purpose.

And it's almost like I don't have to think about it or decide what to do. Once I get up and I meditate, I just think collectively maybe where if anything by the data points I've collected, a lot of people are confused and I would just love to think that it's just like that morning grogginess we just woke up. It's called hypnagogic state. Yes. No, no, that's the hypnagogic is going to sleep. Hypnopompic is when you wake up. I like that. Yeah. I mean, what was occurring to me when you said that is whether you call it meditation or not, but setting your intentions and checking in with yourself before you get out of bed or like start your day is probably a very smart thing to do.

Well, it seemed weird when we learned meditation that you would meditate as soon as you wake up with it. We do TM. I'm like, why, but then I realized how important that is because it's your day. Well, and not only that, like, because I always think of meditation, if you really want to just break it down, it's like mental digestion. It's just like you could just sit there and not even have a practice, just sit there with your thoughts and you're meditating. You're just digesting the stuff and I could see why you'd want to do that eight hours into your day like we do, but as soon as you get up, it's important because you just went through a crazy second life in your dreams and like your consciousness is really trying to process that stuff in some way and there's a terrorist attack in my dreams last night.

It was so wild. My son was being held hostage, Denise went with this weird contraption down these doors and like was shooting terrorists and then I saw the terrorists coming after me. It was fucking insane. I've never had a dream like that. Who was behind it? Was it Bush and Cheney? Yeah, it was Bush and Cheney. It was Hamas. No, I mean, I don't know, I don't know what that was, but I know that it like it obviously impacts what comes from that like these are integrated lives. Like we are multidimensional beings. We forget that because we pretty much are in waking consciousness, constricted to this one.

Thank God. I know. Thank God. I know we all love dimension hopping and everything, but for Christ sake, we need that. We need one continuous thread to keep us on this earth and function. Here you do. For sure. You would not be able to, I've done it for various points in times and it is very difficult to sustain and maintain your reality and presence and reality like that. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely like, thank God, it's singular consciousness, but we forget we are also doing a lot of other things without our conscious mind being aware of them in different ways and like it's, that could be as simple as like your heart just pumping.

Like you're not thinking about pumping your heart. Can you imagine? Like do all the functions that your body regularly does to keep you in like homeostasis? Like, well, that's what's so relieving, even metaphorically about moving into the heart space because you don't have to think about what the heart does. It doesn't need that. It doesn't require that. Just feels it. Yeah. And when you like, oh man, I was, I got really high the other day and I was thinking about the inception levels. I'm like, I'm a consciousness observing a mind, observing a body on a heart's path. It's like inception layers deep.

It probably even gets deeper than that if I started thinking about it. It's kind of crazy. It goes back to unity consciousness, right? And then I, that's why I like to look at the frameworks to like at least try to define what this reality is, which is, I do think it's unified consciousness in just oneness and like, whether it's boredom or a desire or curiosity, it fractures off into this observer of the thing and that just flows down in this chart and we find ourselves in a physical reality pondering the existence of unity consciousness and all being one kind of collective being. And we get the ability to even think about that.

I find, you know, at least interesting enough to question that and pursue that as some aspect of what my life is. It's wild to me who people who are like atheists in that sense, where they just really believe it's just this crazy set of circumstances that led to this particular thing. It's like, just to have that thought should show you there's something, maybe behind. I know. I don't know. But I mean, it's not, it's not something. It's not for me to tell people that's definitely what's happening. You know, someone's experience may just be that and that's what works for them. And there's nothing wrong with that experience either.

So like it's not trying to tell people what reality is, but it's definitely not everything we just see and perceive with our senses. It's more than that. Yeah. And those are the areas I like to look at traditionally in my life to like see like, where's the magic? Like, where's the subtle stuff that is actually connecting us to this perceived reality and like, how do we play around with that? That would be interesting. Right? Is it a game of hide and seek with God and ourselves being God and aspect of the divine? For me, that's what it seems like. I was a devout atheist, you know, in my twenties, probably when my life was the most chaotic, but like when it, it felt like I was living in a godless universe.

Meaningless. Meaningless. Yeah. Just tragedy after tragedy. And yeah, something changed. Something slowly changed. Once I started making art and then I discovered mushrooms. Yeah, you always said mushrooms like really, the first of the, I literally, I could still be talking this kind of shit off that first mushroom trip and I was so confused. It was so confusing, but it was like a rebirth. I got all the downloads that I ever would get from psychedelics from that first time. Yeah. It really caught me off guard. It caught my whole way of operating off guard and I was willing to change. And I think that's what separates a bad trip from a good one is like, I realize in that moment, like not to cling to the old version of me, that there was something profound just changed and let's go with that for a while, because what the fuck else are we doing?

Fuck yeah, man. I mean, that's, that's the beauty of psychedelics. I think it's also why I think a lot of people think psychedelics will just can be used therapeutically in that way. Yes. Sometimes it's just right place, right time auspicious cosmic, you know, my serial aliens doing their thing and your consciousness is ready to kind of accept that. I chose it before I even took form that at 32 years old, I was going to have a really weird night and it was going to change my life. I chose that and it was a random night 10 years ago, almost exactly. And yeah, I believe that I chose that moment to, to fully awaken into the person I'd become and it's a much better person, a much better, more chill.

I can't imagine knowing you before that, to be honest, the way just a little more edgy. Yeah. I mean, a lot more edge. Yeah. Yeah. So did you though, you had the, you know, we were, we were two peas in a pod. Yeah, you're just playing a different game. Just playing a totally different. Your ladder's up against a different wall, you know. Yeah. Totally. And I got to the top and I was like, oh, I leaned it on the wrong wall. Like, like, Joseph Campbell says, yeah, I mean, that is also a choice we get to blessedly make whenever we want to, like you're not forced to put your ladder on that wall. Like no one is making you do that.

Yes. Yeah. And you, you're doing it to yourself and like, that's not victim blaming. It's not, but like, think about that, like what wall are you putting your, what game do you want to play? Where do you want to climb to? And maybe realize that's not even the thing. Well, what is the ladder made of? For me, it's art. So I don't care where I lean it. I don't care. I'm going to get to the top of a bunch of things that I lean this ladder that is, that's what's going to get me. That's what's helped. That's the vehicle I'm using to, you know, get to higher dimensions of my soul is art. So it almost doesn't matter where you lean it and it's almost funny when you get to the top and you're like, oh, this isn't really what I cared about.

Cool. Let's go back down and start a new one. That is the process, right? Up and down the ladder. First there was a mountain, then there was no mountain, then there was. Why do the mountains do that? It's so annoying. It's the bad. I love mountain climbing. Descending isn't as fun. No. People say that people that climb Mount Everest, they talk about going down is that's where people die. That's where people get fucked up. It sounds horrible. Yeah. It's the same thing in ebbs and flows of your life. Exactly. We love being at the bottom and looking at the top and being like, damn, are we about it?

All right. Fuck it. Let's start. I love the work, the work, the work. When we get to the top, it's rare air. You're alone. It's like, you know, what are we doing up here? Let's end life. We'll take you back down. It's so interesting. Right? That's the back down. I mean, Ronda spoke about that when he was first discovering LSD. He was like, they were doing it not too far from here constantly. Millbrook. Yeah, Millbrook. And he was just like, when do you not come back down? That's what I don't want. The comeback down. And, you know, he went to India, met Maharaji, all of these stories and everything you hear from there.

And then, you know, what he primarily spoke about is it's not really your job to worry about how not to come back down. It is to aspire to be in the place where just you're there. And that's what it is. And you've reached it. So the name Crowley Baba thing he said about LSD, I remember too, you know. He was saying, LSD will let you visit and be in the presence of Christ. You know, the goal is to be Christ. That is like literally what the goal is. And for me, Christ is your realization that you and he are one or you and the creator are one. Same fucking thing. That your experience may not validate that, but it's because this is a conditional world that takes inside stuff and projects it onto the screen that we perceive as it's like when you watch a movie, it's frames of a movie, even though it's digital now, it's frames of a movie stitched together, passed through late, which we view as one continuous stream of time.

And like, it's hard to like keep this in mind all the time as like a person who has to do things. But when you recognize that, you realize like your light and directive consciousness really does shape out here and your perception of it, if nothing else, right, even if you don't believe it's actually going to change anything circumstantially, your perception of it will change. And when your perception of something changes, usually there's some qualitative substantial change in your life experience. Well, I mean, this is what people talk about when you surrender to Jesus and surrender to Christ. It's it sounds, you know, it's it's not religious.

That isn't religious. Well, it's weird because like most people when they hear that, like they they think of Christ as a man. Yeah, that's not what we're talking about. And like that, that's I think it's equally long wrong to look at the Bible and say these people made this shit up. These people were lunatics. Like how could you believe someone would do that? That's equally as wrong as just fully believing that this is something that like God literally wrote down instead of looking at it as like psychological states that everyone goes through and all of these narratives and Psalms and they're they're perfect allegories for states of consciousness.

We go through as people that while they have names and they're going through stories and that goes for every mystical and religious text that exists. There's a reason these things also still exist. All the forms of consciousness are there in these characters. And the perfect one is Jesus in the in the in the Christian, you know, in the Christian and you would say the Buddha too, like these figures, these mystical archetypal figures had a realization that let them kind of integrate the feeling of being their consciousness projecting this experience and figuring out in whatever way Jesus resonates with a lot of people because it's unconditional love and a lot of people who, you know, through meditation, psychedelics, inner work, therapy, whatever it is giving birth, giving birth, watching someone die.

You know, all of these experiences tend to evoke that feeling. That's the underlying basis, a compassion, unconditional love. And if that's the supportive kind of mechanism of this reality creation, Jesus would be a perfect embodiment of that type of energy. Which I also think is just like more like fun to like think of the biblical figures like that. Like it makes it more understandable. Also like you don't get fixated on these weird kind of possible meaningless. Yeah. Like water in the water. Like what are you talking about? That's the kind of shit that used to trip me up when I was a kid. That's why it led to atheism Catholicism leads to atheism.

If you're paying attention. Yeah, I've noticed most Catholics have that relationship with that. Yeah. Yeah. And you shed the religion, but you somehow don't shed all the shame and blame cycles that go on with it and all the feeling you need to confess and all that fucking nonsense. But it made me who I am, you know, perfect religion for a young boy like me, perfect led me perfectly onto the path I'm on right now, which I'm really enjoying. Yeah. Yeah, and I wonder like if religion, if that was an intention or just a misinterpretation at some point, because it doesn't have to be this evil malice, like, let's use it as a cudgel against, you know, the unwitting masses.

Yeah. Could it just been someone like, Oh, this dude, these people? Okay. Let's teach it as though there are people you did that you said don't do this. Yeah. Don't do that. Like, and it's like, I don't know. You don't know how that actually originates in people's mind. It feels like probably the power corrupted, it's like, okay, only these people could read the Bible and then it happened for sure, but it's differently so that they could make sure they get more money in the whatever, I don't know. You think it was like someone or a group of people recognize that you could use this as a tool, one of the best tools for manipulation and I mean, it clearly turned into that.

I'm not denying that. I think people don't even know what they're doing when they're manipulating. Like it's just work is like, it's kind of human nature to serve your own interests. And I think we get confused about what our own interests are because we have a very individual view of our own interest. And if you kind of, I think what's beautiful about psychedelics is it expands who you think you are to like, so you're like, oh, you're not as, I'm not saying that if you take psychedelics, you won't be as egotistical and self-centered. That's obviously that myth has been dispelled by many, many slash all people.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, but I think at your highest ideal, you realize, oh, there is something to feeling good. But what actually makes me feel good is that when other people around me also feel good. Love thyself as I love thy neighbor, right? I mean, that's golden rule. That's like the only rule I have for any manifestation is golden rule. So like, don't manifest situations that you wouldn't, you know, for someone because you can use all of these things to bless other people. That's what Jesus was doing all the time anyway. That's psychological state, blesses everything around it and performs miracles.

So if you're in that state, you know, just make sure when you're doing that, you would be okay if someone did that for you and you might be and you might not be and it might be a wonderful, amazing, beautiful thing. But maybe you wanted to do it yourself. Maybe you didn't want it done and that's just something you have to think about. I feel like when you play around with this shit, can you just slap at the end of everything for the highest good of all? Right. I know just like the hack, I know it's true. No souls were harmed in the making of this life. Exactly perfect. You had it protected against all potential tricks and situations, reverse jinx.

Yeah, I mean, it is true like, and I think you can do that ultimately if your intention and aspirations are there, if it really is, like you're saying, like if the goal is to spread chill, if that's truly your intention, that is not going to harm anyone at the end of the day. It is going to spread a vibe that if people are willing to accept it, if it's returned to sender, you wish something for someone else and they don't accept it, it's returned to sender. Yes. So just be aware of that too. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I see people reject the chill and I'm like, okay, I'll take it. It's all, I'll keep it and you do, you keep doing you and see how that works out.

It's, I mean, it's nice to feel chill. It's like, it's a good feeling, yeah, there's not a lot of extra oversight and mental work that needs to be done with it. There's an ease and, you know, we all I think aspire to that at times, but if you find yourself not being chill, and there's also a difference right between being chill with people, which I am very naturally good at, with myself, good all the time, whole different story. You know, I work on the same way that I'm chill with other people. I try to provide that for myself when I can, especially when it's not naturally arising. Sometimes I feel amazing and like it can be misconstrued for cockiness and, you know, all the, but sometimes don't, and sometimes you just have to be chill with yourself as much as you possibly can because that's going to allow you to kind of get that bird's eye view that you were talking about and figure out the stuff that really means something to you.

Yeah. I mean, reaction, we live and react, that's all we're presented with is reactions, right? I mean, on our phones, yeah, that's what it's all reactionary is there. There are new artistic things being created. So we do have that too, but yeah, it's really getting wild out there on the internet guys. It's like, well, yeah, look at the dreams you had last night as if you were like, so the, you're taking fucking Jack Ryan running around like a Jack Reacher, all these fucking I know, like I know, no, but there, I mean, I think it's easy to see that, that benefits someone that you're fucking scared shitless at night.

You know what I mean? I wasn't scared. It's so weird. But yeah, it's seeped into my subconscious. I don't know if it, I view that as like necessarily, it's just the system that we're in. I don't, obviously I know there are people who have intentions to take advantage of and exploit things that make them money or give them power. Like I'm not naive in that sense. But I also wonder how much of these systems that we've created kind of got away from our ability to put in other stuff, like intentionality into these things. And none of these systems that exist now can't be used for that. It may be deprioritized, but they can still be used for that.

And I wonder if that evolves like over the next however many years, because I don't think this, I don't know, I just don't necessarily believe in like the dystopian future where this type of rampant, intrusive media and like consumerism, like it's like, I'm, you guys know, I'm a dolphins fan Amazon did a black Friday thing with the Jets. It was the most perverse capitalist hyper capitalist thing I have ever seen. I'm a dolphins fan. All I care about is the football game. Every two seconds, there's some integrated promo deal with the QR code all over the screen selling you Nintendo switch, all of these things and I'm like, Jesus.

And gamble on the game. And get now the gambling shit is wait till Amazon gets in that game. Everyone. I mean, ESPN is everyone is. I know. I know. Yeah. I know it's a lot of journalistic integrity. If you have a sports book, it's sports is going to change as we know it now that there's so much money flying around on it. Games are going to be fixed in ways we don't understand whole leagues are going to be rigged. You know, if they're not already natural for that to just be a pass because of the size of the pot. Yeah. I mean, like that's what happens when you get rid of regulation. That's all this is they're getting rid of forms of regulation and it's going to poison the well.

So a lot of the stuff we love is going to be tainted by gambling pro pro wrestling. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. It's going to come like that. Yeah. I kind of feel like sometimes that's what I don't even want to talk. I haven't been depressed by a dolphins game in maybe like eight years. This last one just fucking sucked my soul out of my body. It was a good. It's a good. It's a good. It's not a good. It's this is this is it. This is every dolphin span. Those how this goes. You started off so they were up by fucking 14 points with three and a half minutes to go. Oh, that's that's brutal. And they blew it.

And not only that everyone got hurt, like all of the people off too many injuries. It wounds me to my soul. And I thought I was past. I'm constantly reminding myself that whenever I think I've passed some like threshold of like non reactivity, like no, I literally couldn't like what is it that came in so brutal, like honestly, after watching Swamp Kings, I was like the untold story on Netflix. Tim Tebow, Tim Tebow, I was like, but looking into football players, I'm like they are trained to try to kill each other. Pretty much like they're like the fact that the dolphins have had some like incredible games where they've been 45 to zero or whatever the fuck it is.

That hurts them because other people are coming for their fucking next when you embarrass a team by hanging 70 on them. And I watched that game. They were not trying to embarrass the Broncos. The Broncos were really just that bad. Like it was they were just gutting them for long ways. But they deserve to have their players in charge of saying that's literally the nature of the game. Like it is. There's a level of like discipline and humility that you need to have in football to or you can just cheat with the Patriots a few times. But you know, it's I love to sport for a lot of reasons, but damn it's still the dolphins are here to test your perfect faith.

It's it's the same thing with like I don't remember when I chose the Mets, but it was like they were imparted on me, but they're a huge part of my personality and the way I go through life. If I was a Yankees fan, I would be a different person. I know this. I would have grown up thinking championships are like a thing and they're not. They're not. They're hard to come by. They're really hard to come by. You would have been cocky with a couple DUIs under your back. Yes. Exactly. I would be cocky with a couple DUIs. It does really. I thought a Yankee fan Mets fan will keep it makes you into a meditator.

It makes you into a spiritual being. It makes you there is a Dharma to rooting for a shitty sport. Well, yeah. And everything all the lore around the Mets of the miracle Mets, the magic of the Mets, you know, because weird stuff, a lot of weird stuff has happened and they do. They're very good at catching them, the miraculous wave and riding it. But that's about all I have to look forward to. They're not a well organized organization. Maybe they're getting it together now, but like, there's nothing you can really like be like, no, we're going to be okay, except a miracle will come and the Mets are really good at riding those.

So that's kind of, it's made me who I am. And I feel like the dolphins do that for you. Yeah, except they don't get those miracles. They just keep crushing my soul. Yeah, exactly. But then they'll show you what life's all about and like, they'll show you who you are when you think you're doing great too. Remember your personality at the beginning of the season? Come on. That's the problem. This is the problem. This is what I'm trying to escape from. And I just keep falling into the same fucking, I really think when things are great, they're great forever. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know how many times I've been specifically tricked by the dolphins.

But like, luckily not that many because they've been pretty shitty most of the time. But this man, I was so fucking sure. It's the top of the mountain syndrome. Like when you get up there, you realize like, I can't live like this forever. I can't be like this. The air is too thin. It's too cold. It's too exposed up here. And I'd rather be on some form of the mountain than on the top of the mountain. Not to say I don't want the Mets to win the World Series. I just want to be on that mountain at least once in my life. It'll happen. It might happen. It might happen this year. I don't know. I think the 49ers are going to win the Super Bowl.

That's my prediction. They're too hurt. That's my prediction. It's very... I know nothing about football. The Cowboys are really good too. We'll see. I believe he's doing this thing where he just calls baby names before the kids born and stuff. I know how I can tap into things, but I can't think about it for too long. Oh, did we ever tell you about we did this thing where we would... I'd look at... I'd look at... I don't know if he's remote viewing through my eyes or something, but I'd look at the score of like recent games and be like, all right, Sean, who won X versus X. Oils versus Astros on like 10, 3 Astros.

No, you're doing the scores. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Cass is like, yeah. Not only who won, but the score. Sometimes he'd be off by like one point or something, but he always had it right on who won. And by the end, the margin of victory. And the margin of victory. And you're not a sports gambler. No, it was... Yeah, but I think it's like anyone can do that. It's after the fact too. It has to... Yeah, for this situation, it was always after the fact, but like I was like 100 for 100. Like I was... I was batting 1,000 on this. That's insane. It was crazy, but it was games that already had happened and Cass was looking at.

So it might be a remote viewing thing. I don't know what it is, but I know that if I thought about for a second, it fucked up the whole thing. He just had to... If I was like, wait, who was the home team? Who was pitching for the Astros? Like if I started getting into any kind of sports knowledge, it actually distracted me from what the actual outcome was. I got really mad when O'Tani was looking like you might be going to the Toronto Blue Jays. Okay, I know... But for a second, they were trying to make it seem like... I said, Cass, if you would have put $100 on that, you would have $22,000. And I always started to get like, Sean, we should be sports gambling.

What the fuck are we doing? We can have 20... And he's like, yeah, but if you voted, if you put $100 on them being on the Dodgers, you would get nothing. I'm like... We just get 100, but... $2,000, because it looks like he's going to the Blue Jays, and then of course he goes to the Dodgers, and I'm like, actually, you know what, I don't need a sports bet. So my sports gambling hack is I put in $100 at the beginning of the football season, and that's it. Like, whatever happened... Dolphins who win the Super Bowl? No, I don't bet it on one thing. I just bet the games and parlays and stuff, and if I can manage that...

That's a good idea. Because it's like $100. I'll pay $100 for the season. So at some point, you get down. No. I don't know what I'm probably at like 22. Oh yeah, you get up. You get down. Do you at some time, do you ever get down so much that I'd have to put more money in? I haven't. But if I did, I don't think I would. This has improved to me. That's why I only put in an amount that if I want to gamble and see if I'm good at it, I'm not. I've never really been good at sports gambling. I lost like three Bitcoin way back in the day. Sports propping the Super Bowl. Yeah. What is that? Like $25,000 now?

Oh man, no. It's like $130,000. Oh yeah, I mean, but the chances of me. I will say in 2014, I said, it's not technically a penny stock or whatever, but I was like Bitcoin. That's the penny thing that I would invest in and our French took us through like how to buy it. And I was just like, I don't understand this. That's one thing that crypto taught me that I think is actually applicable in all aspects of life is if you're willing to go the step farther where that voice comes in and says, I don't want to do this. This is too complicated. You don't even have to understand that from like a mystical standpoint, just from a rational standpoint, you are putting yourself in a smaller group of people.

And if you do that, you have a higher chance of actually being early, which is how you make money with any type of investing. That's all it is. No, I totally, I got on the track and I was, you know, having calls with you about crypto and everything. And just like the money I put into crypto, I'm like, I like, I don't, I wouldn't even even, I don't know how to just leave it alone. I don't even know how to get it, like it's like I'm like in some weird Pegasus extension that I wouldn't even, you know, that website probably doesn't even exist anymore. Yeah. No, I mean, but the wild thing is I do think crypto is one of these things that outside of just a speculative investment vehicle, it is going to become at some point integrated with some aspect of our commerce or our web application, whatever it is.

And that's going to be interesting because then it's like everyone talks about when their grandma is using Bitcoin or whatever that's actually going to look like that will most likely happen within the next 20 years, like because it's just, no one will ever trust it though, because they'll always feel everyone pretty much from here on out is going to feel like they got into later that it won't or the whole energy of like, it will be Bitcoin necessarily though, that's the thing. It'll be some type of either innovation or form of currency that truly interacts like we use it without knowing we're even using it, but it is something or it is a dollar or some equivalent that's safer than what would happen with inflation or something like that.

That's probably going to happen because, you know, if you were involved with cryptocurrency I'd say any time from like its inception to 2013 or so, you were not really necessarily thinking this is going to be something that would like be worth a lot of money. That's why people are buying pizzas with it and shit. Mm hmm. Yeah. That's why I was propped betting on Super Bowl games with half a Bitcoin, which at the time was like, seems like nothing. Sixty-five dollars. Yeah. Yeah. Right? No big deal. We recognize it had principles in how it worked for currency that were superior to the systems that we have now with fiat currency, where the government, you know, a national government or an entity produces money out of thin air and manages inflation, deflation, all of these things.

So, if we got back on the gold standard would you be like, probably Bitcoin won't take off. If we got back on the gold standard, zero percent chance we'd ever do that at this point, because it's an inherently worthless commodity now as an electrical conduit, right? It's not the best anymore. So it's like we rare earth materials we could maybe get on some standard for them. But no, because I think a lot of the crypto stuff, like I think about this now, I have a crypto livestream tonight on the Patreon actually. It is interesting for me outside of just like the financial benefits it can provide by investing and playing with it.

It is a more fair way. If implemented correctly and managed correctly, you at least know what you're getting into. It's mathematically programmed, not just as currency, just as a medium of exchange for anything. That is better than someone or someone's deciding how this thing is going to work, especially when it comes to money, which determines people's survival at times and their quality of life. So I think that type of ethos, which is why Bitcoin was created, right? It was kind of this altruistic intention to kind of get offs a corrupted system. And I think that that will probably happen to some degree going forward.

And I don't think we get a ton of those instances in life where you see an emerging technology or idea become something that previously, like the internet would be an example of something like that. And I do think we're in the middle of these cycles where that awareness continues to ramp up. When Bitcoin goes over $100,000 in 2024 or 2025, we can go back to this episode and see if that happened. It will. And if the 49ers win this overall? The 49ers, I mean, they probably have the best thoughts right now. Let's be clear. So yeah, well, it would be more impressive if you understood that Sean doesn't read about football.

That is very impressive. They are hands down probably the favorite right now. Awesome. They've been. Yeah, that's a very good prediction. They're a well-run organization too. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I think when Bitcoin continues to create new thresholds of its worth, that eventually brings in more people and more investors, not just as like I said, a speculative asset, but some of the technologies underpinning this stuff, which do evolve really quickly from cycle to cycle in some ways they don't, some ways they do. But I'm seeing it, you know, happen more and more and quicker and quicker. And it's interesting to me at least because it represents some alternative way of looking at money and that can be from a technical standpoint or it can just be like, hey, you put some money into a shit coin and it was a hundred bucks.

And now it's like $500,000. That also is changing people's perspectives about how money works and functions. So it's just altogether kind of like, it's something that I think will continue to grow over the next like decades because the way we look at money in general is pretty weird for most people. Yeah, it is. Right. Yeah. Very constricting. Do you want to switch over to the other one? You'd down to do a little bit more for me. I'm down. My friend. Awesome. Well, we're Sean and Cass from VeryApe and we also have patreon, patreon.com/churchachill. Our psychedelic music curation is on there. Tons of fucking bonus episodes, ones with Nala that have never come out.

Yeah. All kinds of stuff. Really good vibes. And it's only two bucks. Also, the Discord is one of the coolest Discords that I actually go into. I don't go to a lot of Discords, but I do go in there and it's very like, it's good. Yeah. Yeah. It's just an extension of everything we do. Well, a lot of cool people though, like a lot of people. Yeah. Totally. So come join the party for sure. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Thanks. I feel like you basically ran my show for this, but I never know who's. I didn't know it until like halfway through when we were like, no, no, no, it did good. I feel like this was his podcast, but if you like these kinds of conversations, this is all we do.

Yeah. That's like hard to tell. Yeah. This is very synergy between these two forms of media. Yeah. For sure. Awesome. Cool. Thanks. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hope you enjoyed that episode as a reminder, go check out Shawn and Cass's podcast, very ape. You can also join their Patreon, which is one of my favorite patrons. I am a subscriber to that. It's one of the best. Their discord is phenomenal. Their bonus episodes, notice the church of chill are also incredible. They're just good vibes. As you could tell from this episode, they're just cool people. That's, that's, that's all I can say about them.

They are true friends. They are there in the good times. They are there in the bad times. And that's really, you can all you can ask for with friends, right? Go check out my Patreon if you are interested in bonus episodes, live streams, readings, weekly, we do fun stuff over there. We kind of get it done. And for those interested, crypto is kind of popping off. The discord has been ramping up. You can join that by joining the Patreon. And there's also the conscious crypto course, which is a, believe it, eight or nine module course that I put together over the summer. If you're looking to get a step ahead on the crypto bull market, which is very likely to happen in 2024, that's a great place to start.

You can find all the information for that in the show notes of this episode. And also, if you go to Instagram, you can find that in the link in my bio. All right, guys, until next week, love you bye bye. Poly market is proud to be the world's top choice to trade football. You mean soccer? Right. Soccer. Poly market is proud to be the world's top choice to trade soccer. Know the game better than the market? You can earn cash trading on tournament and game outcomes, golds, assists, saves, corners and much, much more. Download the Poly market app and use code free50 to unlock $50 free for your first trade.

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