Jack Carroll Returns!

(upbeat music)

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

Welcome to synchronicity. This week, my guest is Jack Carroll. It says return. Jack, you may know, especially if you're living overseas in Europe, in England, in UK, in Britain, whatever they're calling it these days. Jack is a famous television and movie star at this point. I think the last time Jack was on the podcast, man, it must've been a couple of years ago. It's been a while. I mean, we routinely check in with each other on Twitter and we follow each other from afar on Facebook. But it's always just really a great time whenever we get to connect and have a conversation in real time. And this is back conversation.

That's pretty much what you're gonna hear in this episode. We talk about lots of stuff that's going on. We bounce back, talk John, some Westworld, some black mirror, some Donald Trump, some, you know, regular stuff. It's just, I don't even need to hype the conversation. If you know Jack and you're here for Jack, enjoy, because the kid is, he's not even getting more. He's like, he's a, the boy is growing up. He really is just though an amazingly wise, astute, insightful, kind person, you know? Those are the people we like, right? That's the people we're trying to, trying to associate with more in life.

And Jack certainly is that type of person. So that's the episode. I'm gonna make this a very short intro. I do wanna remind people that the crypto sync Discord server. This is a place where we're offering signals, buy sell signals, trading advice, a community of people who will help you kind of navigate the crypto sphere, the cryptocurrency sphere, which obviously I've been talking about for a long time and things are going quite well. We're doing some coin giveaways in there. We're doing some charity funds. We have a dreams channel where you can manifest your dreams by putting it out there as this new economic paradigm continues to happen.

There's gonna be a lot of cool stuff going on in there. I just wanna remind everyone who's listening in case you're like, I'm really cured now. You might care later if you joined this month, January, 2018, you're in the gates, you're free. It doesn't cost any money to join. It absolutely will cost money starting February 1st and it's not gonna be cheap. I don't say this to be like, okay, marketing, marketing, I want you guys in there for free because you listen to this podcast and I think you're gonna benefit from it. Nah, I actually know you're gonna benefit from it. So if you can get in the easiest way at this point, it's to probably go to the website, syncpodcast.com.

You will see a welcome map that says, hey, join the crypto sync Discord, put in your email. You will get an email with a link to the Discord server. Starting February 1st, what you're gonna get if you put in your email there is an explanation of what it is and then an address of where you pay Bitcoin or Ether to get in. So that's why you wanna do it this month. And you know, let me see what's going on there. If you hate it, you can leave. It's not like you're locked into anything. I'm not doing anything else. So anyway, I do think you're gonna like it. As a reminder, if you want some one-on-one consults or you want help setting up your portfolio, I am also providing those services as well.

I think so far the worst return someone has received and you know, we're all aware that this whole market, horrible crash, so things are so bad in the past few days, I think the worst return to date, I think is somewhere in the 100 to 200% range. So this is not something I'm doing because I've turned into an EV. EV, no, that's not what I was trying to say. Evil Capitalist Pig. It's because my time is even more limited than it's been in the past because I've expanded my horizons to the crypto sphere and I just need to make sure that I'm putting the proper attention where it needs to be. Furthermore, it's just gonna help you out.

So anyway, that's enough for the spheeling and the shilling. I'm also, just so you guys know, recording about three, 30 minute to hour long, you know, chats, voice calls in the server about specific cryptocurrency things. So this week we did something on VeChain, a specific forecast, we did rebalancing your portfolios yesterday and tomorrow we're gonna do exchange arbitrage. So there's stuff you can learn in there for free, regardless, anyway, enough, I'm done. Jack, ready for the episode? I'm ready for the episode. Had a great time having the conversation. We're gonna have a great time listening to it.

So without further ado, here is Jack Carroll. (upbeat music) I'm good, man, how are you? I'm well, I'm good, thank you. Well, apart from the fact that I've got a little bit of a cold, so if I hear it, it's my way through. (laughing) Sorry. Then I'm sure that'll be delightful for your listeners. Yeah, that's exactly what people wanna hear. You know, that I've done a lot of surveys and they've said, if we could just have more loud coughing and sick people on, that would be great. Yeah, well, what if you check a weird new community to the podcast because-- Just like people who love that sickly people coughing.

(laughing) Dude, long time no speak in person. It's good to hear your voice. No, man, I know it's been a while. Aren't you like a famous TV star now? Well, I don't know, I don't know about that. It depends what the criteria is for that. I'm hoping I'm on that way. I'll take in for much, as well, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, this is an impromptu thing. We planned it last week, but I just really wanna hear what's going on with you and what you've been up to because I think we check in with each other from afar on social media, but it's a little different when we get to kind of connect like this.

I have a little bit of a proper discussion. It's been a good couple of years, actually. I've done a film last year, which is exciting. And then I did a lot of acting last year. So I've sort of been doing that a little bit more on the stand-up, but I'm hoping to get back into the stand-up properly this year. Do you like acting? Yeah, acting's fun. It's a different sort of challenge, but it's a weird time to be doing stand-up at the minute because everything is so inherently hilarious that it's really difficult to make jokes about the thing, you know, about current events and so on because every day you go in, well, that's already fully fun.

There is no reason for my input. I never thought about that, but it's just such a comical and caricature-laden world at this point. And I know in like both of our countries in just the world at large, but I never thought of that impacting comedian's ability to make fun of you 'cause it is, it's like, at a certain point, it's kind of like shooting fish in a barrel 'cause things are so ridiculous, right? Yeah, absolutely as well. I'm not really shooting the barrel because I think the, that would be, you know, that's not bad, but I think that the sort of, the disc golf now is so dominated by things that are already inherently insane, that it's really difficult to be surreal or try and come up with an angle on a fence because it's already there.

Anything you could say that would seem crazy or zenly or often, you know, it's already fully formed, really. So that can make things difficult. And also because it seems that a lot of nuance has been taken out of the discussion at the minute. So it's like anything you try and, every time you try and write something, there are a certain number of things on the comedy bingo card that are just ever present in your head, and it's very difficult to get out of the way of those things and try and find the truth of the thing because you trump and the Brexit dominate the news and what's that they're going to punch lines for anything.

So that's really difficult not to be lazy.

Yeah, that's, I think that's also what I was trying to get at too, is that there is this level of just like obviousness of how ridiculous things are. So what you're saying is totally valid where, you know, it actually becomes more difficult because this stuff has already turned up to 11 as it is. So what are you going to do, turn it up to 13 and make it even crazier? It's already crazy to begin with. But also like you're totally right. Like stuff is so in our face and we're dominated by what's presented to us that it's like, how do you find a way to kind of subvert that in a clever way, which is really what, you know, comedians do, they're exposing fundamental truths and ridiculousness in a way that makes us laugh.

I mean, what's interesting to me, so I spoke about it briefly with you, but no, this podcast won't be all about this, but I've been plugged into the cryptocurrency vortex for like 50 days now, and I haven't looked at the news. Up until a few days ago, I hadn't looked at the news for 40 days or so, like I just legitimately did not, I like, you know, mildly aware of Trump is still president and things are still fucked up, but like I just wasn't doing what I was doing before, which is checking my phone 20 times a day. Oh my God, he did this. Oh, that's happening. I can't believe this. But then when I finally checked in a few days ago, what struck me is obviously the Trump stories are there too, but then peppered in on my news feed and I use the Apple news were five stories about parents murdering their children.

And the reason I bring that up is it's like, there's no way that with all the things going in the world, those are the biggest stories of the day, but it became very clear to me whereas I, that was probably in my news feed as it was and I wasn't taking note of it because I had been gone for so long. It stuck out to me that they're basically throwing this stuff at us. So whether it's Trump or Brexit or the leaders of our respective worlds or our local crime and punishment stuff, like it's getting harder and harder for me to kind of get away from the idea that a lot of the news media and gosh, I hope it don't sound like Trump here is, is designed to kind of freak us out.

You know what I mean? And prevent us from doing the things that are maybe gonna be beneficial for us. And I think as a comedian, especially one who's engaging with the world, that really becomes a challenging thing in a lot of ways 'cause you have to go right into the face of this shit, not only acknowledge it and see what's going on, but figure out a way to make this palatable and funny for other people. I can only imagine what that's actually like when you put your gaze on this stuff. Yeah, well, I think that's how, the more we get into these sort of things, life in 2018 is a bit like, no one you were learning to swim is that as a kid.

I don't know whether you learned to swim. I got thrown in a pool. That's how I learned how to swim. So this is what life in 2018 is like, like every morning you wake up and they try and cook you into the cold water. I don't want to go in, please, no. I'm screaming and crying. That's sort of Trump and the ever-present threat of nuclear war and new stories about people killing their kids. That's the freezing cold water. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how it feels. That's how it feels to be. But then I don't know, is it good to, is it good to not recognize those things? I suppose the best thing to do is to recognize and then go, ah, okay, I've got to see what the broader, how this broader.

Well, to play off the analogy, what I'd say is this, is there's already a lot of people in that freezing cold water and it's probably not a pleasant place to be. So for some of us who may be recognized that, hey, we don't want to be in freezing cold water. We may need to hold our noses, jump in so we can get some of these other people out of the freezing cold water. Because I think, yes, we have to be aware of all the fucked up shit in the world. But we don't have to let it get us to a place where we're paralyzed or it dominates our consciousness to a point where we can't even enjoy our lives. Which obviously has been happening, not just since Trump has been president.

So this is like kind of where we get into this weird blessing in disguise thing with someone as ridiculous as Trump. Or your leader is truthfully, I mean, like, you know, they may be a little more polite and not as quite as garish about it. But I mean, some of the decisions that are being made are not totally dissimilar. Well, at least this is the big differences. I think they have a very targeted strategy of evil where Trump, to me, just seems like an idiot. And that's the difference. I think people like to comfort themselves by going, "Oh, you know, people who are engaged "to like comfort themselves by going, "Oh, he's in the fairies evil media."

No, he's not, he's a moron. (laughing) That's the problem. That's the even scarier fact that you have to comfort. It's that there is no grand fund, there is no...

Yeah.

Even that thing going on with him, he's just either he's an impulsive, stupid idiot.

Yeah, who's been enabled his whole life too. So you can just imagine that happening for 65 plus years. You just thinking you're king of the world and people basically confirming that. I mean, it's easy to see how he got to where he is.

Yeah, and I mean, it's just like, yeah, absolutely. You can chart that trajectory definitely. But I think people do like to comfort themselves with the idea that he is some sort of very targeted nose, you know, the people who are against him do what's completely false with the idea that he knows what he's doing. But I think the scary reality is that, you know, he doesn't, and it's chaos.

Yeah, man, I'll tell you, I think the scariest reality potentially for some people is that no one really knows what the fuck they're doing. So even the people, now obviously there's variance in this, you know, we can look at someone, you know, who's, you know, a much more stable thinker than Trump and say, okay, well, they're a little better off. But the truth is, it's like, we are in chaos. It doesn't mean there's not order in the chaos. It just means like, we don't have a firm, especially now. I mean, this is becoming more and more clear as linear time progresses. Like the game plan and the blueprint for what was going on 10 years ago doesn't make sense.

Let alone 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago where, you know, a lot of our parents and the older generations are coming from. So there's this period of like adaptability and, you know, evolution, hopefully, where we figure out like how to make sense of what's happening right now. And I think that a lot of people, and when I say a lot of people, I pretty much put everyone in there, most people are struggling, you know, with how to deal with that. Like how do you, how do you process that the old rules don't necessarily apply, you know? And I think people are also just waking up to that as much as anything.

Yeah, yeah. It seems to, but yeah, we seem to be in some sort of, I think it's good because it's like, you get the two, 'cause this is another thing I've been thinking about recently, is that we're in a sort of stage now where you've got, we only seem to be able to exist with polar off of it, because we're in a level of, we say, well, we're just getting to grips with these concepts. So for people to be able to digest them, the nuance has to be taken out of them. And that's the thing that I've seen, maybe it's just because I'm spending a bit more time online looking at these things, but the nuance seems to be, have been extracted from most arguments.

Wow, yeah.

The whole one is from a YouTube comment section.

It's true, and I think we probably wouldn't have wanted to realize that the YouTube comment section was gonna turn into the discourse on our, you know, national and political levels, but unfortunately, I mean, it has. Like, that's where we've gotten to. I mean, I think part of an explanation for why this happens a little bit is, it becomes easier for people to define who they are and what they're about and what their lives mean when they have a counterposition to weigh it off of, right? This is why, like, I use like a really hot button topic in this country, gun control, right? I'm not as against guns.

I don't like guns, I don't own guns, but I'm not as against guns as most people who are liberal, right? I don't immediately flock to the one end of the spectrum that says, "Bain all guns, it's gonna solve everything." I think, you know, guns are a symptom and the way people use them are a symptom of something much deeper, but whenever some topic like that comes out, you immediately see what you're talking about, which is half the people or about half the people go to one side and the other half of the people that go to the other side and then they snake out their position since just start yelling at each other, which we know doesn't accomplish shit.

Like, no argument. The only way, you know, arguments are one when that happens is a war. One side wins and takes over. It's not like a compromise is reached.

Yeah, that's it. I think, yeah, you're right. But that man always needs to be joking.

Yeah.

And, you know, I think, 'cause I was trying to develop a bit on sketch about this, it's what happens to all the left-wing protest singers if they get what they want to do. It's the end being the only people out of work.

I mean, it seems so simplistic and silly, but it's true, like, people define their lives based on the positions and opinions they have, right? I mean, I think one of the other great functions of comedy is that your opinions can be a little bit more malleable, right? If you move your opinion 30% to the left and it makes the joke that much funnier and you realize it's not malicious, that's a useful skill to have. And I think this is also why we find, you know, a lot of people who have a good sense of humor, whether they're comedians or not, like generally being a little more optimistic about situations too, because you don't have to get bogged down in one perspective and that's the only way.

And also I recognize there are some comedians who their entire career is built off a very specific persona. So it's not necessarily like they moved their ways around, but comedians like you, the greats who have been out there seem to have this ability to kind of, you know, be malleable in the way they look at things. And I think that's really important.

Yeah, yeah. I think maybe that is in a bit like a, sort of black mirror or something. That would be a good, if we could all empathize to a machine, because that would be a lot easier than actually having to, with human emotion.

Are you all caught up on Black Mirror?

I've watched a couple of episodes of the latest series. I don't know, I haven't really got into it before. I don't know why, I watched the series when it was broadcast over here and then never picked it up again. But I watched the USS Callister episode this year.

Yeah, I, my dad just started watching and I told him about it last week and he likes that one. I mean, the thing with Black Mirrors is I, I find it incredibly disturbing. Like to the point where like I'm thinking about it the next day, what the fuck is that? But there's also in each season usually two really happy episodes, this season, I highly recommend you watch, you'll love this Jack. It's, "Hang the DJ." That's the name of the episode. That is a wonderful one this year.

I think that's next up in my season of actually. I'll give that a, give that a what. I'm just gonna put my headphones on here too.

No problem.

Outside, my, the weather.

We're snowing, it's snowing here, man. So I totally get, you, you also been watching, you just finished up Westworld, right?

Yeah, that's got me thinking. (laughing) Really has got me thinking, it's, it, it might be one of the best TV shows I've ever seen.

Yeah, I, I'm with you on that. But it, it's like, I think, I think it was, I was going. So Westworld, yeah, I think it's, it's, it felt like some sort of religious creation story.

Yes.

What did it, yeah, it felt like some sort of, yeah, some sort of religious creation story. My, my dad just first and the other side of that. Oh, no, that wasn't some sort of a, that wasn't the creator of this version, of this version of the part coming into, coming in to make sure that the AI had walked, not that. But yeah, I think Westworld, man, it's some sort of religious creation story. Think it's like it, it's, it was a really good way to explain Gnostic Christianity.

Yes.

That, that's what I got from it.

Flesh up, you mentioned that before on Twitter when we were talking, flesh that out for me. I would love to hear your take on comparing it to Gnostic. Yeah.

So from my understanding of Gnostic Christianity, you have, God who is the creator of, God who is the creator of the universe, but wants to keep the, the people ignorant to the, the fact that they are sentient. So he's the demiature, he would be, he would be forward to character. And then you've got the, I don't, I should probably look Wikipedia, probably, I'm probably talking out of school here.

Sorry, man, I do it all the time.

Yeah, and then you've got the, the God who is a level above him, who would be loose for all the light bringer who actually is the good guy in the story, even though he's been painted by forward character, the demiages as a bad guy. Who wants the, the humanity, or in this case, the people in the park to realize their potential and the fact that they're, that, that they have sentions and intelligence. And then the, the people who are us waking up to that, that fact and sort of acting on it. And yeah, I don't know, not that Christianity is always interested with me as, 'cause the more you look around, the more you sort of go, "Oh, things are quite disordered."

Yes.

And if there is, you know, if you go for the official Christian line, and you sort of go, "Is he, is he such a good guy "or does everyone have shade to gray?"

Right.

Even the creator being.

Right. And this gets back to what we were just talking about, which is these polarities, right? Are things binary? Are they one or zero? Or is there a spectrum here that we move along? And if there is a spectrum, why is there a spectrum? And what would be the function of that spectrum? And if it's just to have these polar opposites good and evil or right and wrong, well, that's one way to look at it. But I think that all of these things do serve purposes. And I think your take on Westworld as kind of a Gnostic Christian kind of metaphor is totally spot on. I remember a lot of people when it had first aired, who I really admired and respect on my Facebook, they were talking very similarly about it.

I walked away with a very similar feeling. This is why I'm super interested to hear your opinion of that black mirror, the "Hang the DJ" episode. Because I think there's three things that I can think of off the top of my head that kind of, it's almost an ineffable, undescribable sensation. But it is this kind of like, oh, I recognize that. There's three shows. One of them was Westworld for me. I reacted the same way. And I also related it a lot to the Vedic kind of concept and a lot of the saints concept that you are a divine spark. You are waking up to that. You have the ability to wake up to that at any point.

And that would be the analogy or the allegory with the A, the robots waking up to their own sentience.

Yeah.

And what was I gonna say about that relating? It's, okay, the three shows, right. Westworld is one of them. The other one is, like I said, black mirror that was especially two episodes in particular, "The Hang the DJ" and "The San Junipero." And then the third is "Lost." Which gets a lot of, a lot of shit because admittedly during the fifth season when the writers went on strike, it is some of the worst thing I've ever seen. It's truly just like, you're like, what the fuck are they doing?

Yeah.

But-

But sometimes I think like, that's quite a funny, if you go with the, if you go with the, you know, go the whole hog on the metaphor is sometimes the universe malfunctions that it's like, sometimes weird shit happens for no reason and it does look fake and made up. And what if that's just what was going on there?

I think it's a really good take on it because there's something that happened, especially at the end of "Lost" where there is this, and they're very explicit about it, right. They've got the Dharma Initiative. They've got all these religious symbols in the last episode and people are kind of waking up to their true nature and they died in reality. This whole grand thing, but I think what it points to, and I think what it touches for a lot of people is memories that we may or may not have, depending on your take on reincarnation, but this is, this touches something that I think is out of time for us, that we're in contact with, that doesn't just relate to the linear we're alive now, we were born, we're gonna die, but there's something a little more resonant there, and I think that's why it shows that can kind of really delve into that and tease it out without being blunt about it.

How does such an impact on certain people?

Yeah, and that's the best pop music and the best TV, and it hides these little subversive layers in between what ostensibly looks like quite an appealing and quite interesting thing, but then if you look a little bit deeper, there's something there's something there for you, if you go look it, if you go up it.

I absolutely do, and I think what this also gets to is kind of the root of creativity, right? Like what are we doing when we come up with a joke or a bit or just something funny that makes people laugh? What are we doing when we pull a song out of the ether or create some art that resonates with people? Like what's that process? I mean, what's your take on that? I know you're, you do it.

Yeah, well, it's been the months of January and December which historically a quite barren, creative period to me. So I'm sort of gonna have to describe the idea of making stuff without actually having done a good number of weeks. So we'll see how this goes, but I think, is that...

The key to it is sort of, that thing I said earlier, and it's a thing, you know, with the being so many overdone cultural memes at the minute, that can be difficult is getting out of your own way to be able to make the thing and just like it sort of, like it, you know, to be able to get out of your own way to let the thing be created rather than thinking about technical specifics or how it will be received or any of that stuff.

Yeah, and I mean, I think you also mentioned it probably inadvertently at the beginning, like also knowing when the ebb and flow of creativity comes, if you know you're in kind of a lull and you fight that and try to like pull something up when it's not there, that's usually when, you know, creative people drive themselves insane. You know, it was flowing not too long ago and now I think I got nothing. If you fight that too hard and I'm not saying you should give up obviously when things aren't going, but like they're...

They seem want me to hear it. (laughing)

I'm not even gonna just hear it, fuck it.

Yeah, yeah, just go, just go play play stay stay stay.

Yeah, go play play video game.

You got me, it's all part of the process, man.

You wanna know something weird though, Jack and I've thought about this a lot because I'm a PlayStation lover and I love, I grew up loving, I've loved video games a very, very long time. I think I'm beginning to recognize, this is not what I was taught growing up, this is not how I approached it, but sometimes, truthfully, sometimes playing video games is the right thing to do. It is absolutely like just like you need that mindless, it's not even mindless, sometimes video games really help us with a lot of different stuff, but like there is a function for that and that has taken me a very long time to kind of accept and I think this is also kind of a uniquely Western problem that we're not allowed to have these down times or things where we're not doing whatever we're passionate about whether it's being creative or job or whatever it is, like this is the equanimity we need to find in our own lives.

If you would have asked me two months ago, three months ago, four months ago, when I was in a very bad financial position and just kind of freaking out if I thought it was ever appropriate to take time to play video games, I'd be like, "Fuck no, what are you doing?" I'm like, "I gotta pay my bills and shit," but I do realize that that helps us too sometimes, but I mean, obviously, you know, you know the truth is this, Jack, like you're not a lazy person, you may have these feelings or whatever, but you don't get to where you are at the age you're at and be able to accomplish these things and then just more importantly, just be like a genuinely hilarious and insightful person by being lazy, you know?

Yeah. - So you know?

Well, I don't know, yeah, I think it is helpful, you're right, because then when you're in the thick of a really involving project or something, then you look back on the times where you did have a little bit, that was the time you go, "Oh shit, man, I wish I'd," you know, "I wish I'd put more ps4," you know.

Yeah, three months.

But when you're in the times where you have the opportunity to do that, I think myself especially, it's not so much the doing nothing that I mind particularly, it's the feeling bad about not doing something. And I think you write that that's a uniquely Western problem because we live in a society that tells you everyone needs to be doing something which I don't think is the case all the time, but it's difficult to tell yourself that.

Well, I mean, it's the cultural norm, right? As much as we hear, it's bad to be a workaholic if you look at the messages we get in the world, if we look at the people who have accumulated the most money and most power, they're all workaholics. Those people aren't taking breaks. We're not hearing about how, you know, their work life, and if we are hearing it, it's bullshit. They're not saying like work life balance is great, like Jeff Bezos isn't doing that, he's riding, you know what I mean?

Well, it is very difficult for us to kind of buck that trend. You know, again, this is one of the reasons I'm really getting into cryptocurrency right now is I'm realizing what begins to happen when not only you as a person, an individual, but collectively financial burdens are eased. So your reason for doing something isn't this notion that you have to be doing something because you have to keep up with the Joneses or just keep up with the regular shit.

Yeah, that really has a fundamental change on people's psyches and I'm not implying that things get great, like you have money now and everything is wonderful, it just shifts your perspective on why you might be doing something. And I think as time goes on and I really do believe this is gonna be kind of a cultural shift for the better in the next 10, 20 years, we're gonna see a new period of how, you know, the human species relates to working and downtime and leisure because, you know, you, of all people, like should not feel bad about playing video games, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

That's like I know.

Yeah, I think it is, yeah, right, it's like an anthropological thing if you've got more downtime to be able to think about things rather than just doing the work. And that seems to have always helped the species.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's it. It's like what you're saying is good not to have, you know, not to need to do the work because then you have more time to think about stuff. Yeah, and I think that's a good, really good point actually and something that I hadn't thought of before.

It's something that most people don't really get the opportunity to think about. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not, we can theoretically, at least for me, like the majority of my life up until like a month ago was spent on trying to figure out how to make sure that myself and my loved ones are okay, you know, and that inevitably involves finances. That dominates most people's minds. If you kind of remove the space that's taking up in your brain, it's amazing what else is there. And like I said, it's not all good stuff. You have some major fucking issues that you need to deal with, but at least you get the opportunity to deal with it.

And even to bring it back to kind of the Trump and you know, all of the political divisiveness and the polarity is like, apparently that guy has time to eat cheeseburgers and watch CNN for 13 hours a day.

That's my fucking, how does he find the time as the president of the United States? How is he alive?

Did you read the article? Or were you, had you gone off grid when that article came out? So he's got three television screens going simultaneously. And he just, he just, he throws his clothes on the floor and then gets people to bring him in like McDonald's.

I, just the old day on the, so basically he has the same baby pattern that I have when it's an awful hangover.

He's just living the life of an awful hangover. That's the truth, of course.

Yeah.

Dude, I read the last thing I read about his habits were that his daily meal for dinner was two Big Macs and two filet of fishes. And I'm like, listen, I do something in here. I don't know what the combos are in Britain, but like, I do a very disgusting thing when I'm just like gross and you know, I will get these periods where I eat McDonald's, right? And it's not, I don't, I'm not happy to admit it, but I do something called a one two combo. This is getting a number one, which is a Big Mac and two cheeseburgers on top of it. All right, this is a disgusting horrible thing I do, but I do it and I wanna, I feel like I wanna die afterwards.

Like I legitimately feel like this is, I've actively poisoned myself. This motherfucker is eating two Big Macs and two filet, like that's impressive, I gotta respect it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's not normal.

Yeah, well that's the thing is that you, I look at like, I look at my diet on the worst day and I go, I could never do that and then do nothing. You know, never mind, eat that shit and then have to go and do military agreements with you.

Anything, anything. I wanna take a nap and think about the poor decisions I've made that led me to this point after I consume that amount of food. Oh, I know, man.

It's craziness.

I mean, I think there's something to be said about someone's ability to manifest the reality, the fact that he can do that.

Yeah.

And is still like up and walking? Like that's, I don't know, man. He's like this zombie demon who's just powered by his will to win. It's insane. It's insane.

Yeah, that's it, man. They must like, to use an NLP term, how strong must that guy's frame be?

For no one to call him out on his bullshit.

I mean, I think it's hard to imagine, right? I always kind of use, I'm sure you can use a similar analogy for your football, but American football players, like, you know, most of these people who rise to like the Tom Brady level, he's an exception 'cause he wasn't highly regarded coming out of college, but most of these people from a very young age are essentially anointed as king of their middle school, king of their high school, king of their college, king of their city. So they do abhorrent behavior, like Ben Rothusberger, he's raping people and doing whatever the fuck he wants, because he's been told his whole life, like, this is okay, you're gonna keep rising to the top because you're good enough at this particular thing.

I think what we have there is just like these isolated kind of wealth bubbles that create these trumps where they think this is just normal. Like this is just like, if you told him like, no, dude, that's not, you can't say that about other countries. You're the president, he'd be like, yes, I can.

Yeah, but it's that simple to him. It's, man, it's fucking crazy.

That's it, that's it. Yeah, that's a great thing about a great take on those sports people as well. You never really consider that, but there is a trend over here of the footballs, soccer players, whatever being not great human beings.

Well, yeah, man. - And that's sort of why.

Of course it is, it's something that I also think culturally we're still kind of grappling with. Like we're seeing all this, you know, the Hollywood stuff and the wine signing of people. And, you know, this is obviously a needed thing that has to happen. And I'm not one of those people who's gonna call this a witch hunt at all. There's just, I think people haven't processed that you can't do certain things because it's not nice to other people. Like there's a large contingent of our population who doesn't understand that con. They missed the golden rule talk.

A lot of those, a lot of those people were like, "What do you mean I can't be, you know, "what do you mean I can't be incredibly sexually aggressive? "That's why I got involved in this."

Exactly.

Like, and that was the sort of overwhelming reaction.

Well, and I mean, you know, as a culture for having tacitly or overtly condone that type of behavior, there does have to be some level of, you know, adjustment for people who, I mean, what you said is just abundantly true. I'm a musician, I went to a music school, which is kind of like a micro music industry. I mean, just to be clear, 90% of guys get into the arts because they know women like it. Like, does this be fucking clear here? Like, I mean, that doesn't make us horrible people. It just is like, that is something. There's something that the arts do to connect us as humans, whether it's a guy or a girl, obviously, it doesn't matter.

My point is, is that there's a natural allure there for people where the problem comes is, if that's the allure and it starts happening, the potential to abuse that has to be mitigated, or you're just, and it's not even about like, like you're just gonna fuck your life up, you know? That's, it's not even about other people at that point. Like, if you think you can just abuse a power or you subconsciously just grok that you can do that, like, that doesn't make people happy. No one's happy with that. - Yeah. But I think, as well, that's a symptom of, as I was saying earlier, extracting the nuance out of human discourse is that it has to be the worst thing for it to be able to, you know, for this purge to be able to happen.

And then also that, you know, on the other side of that, does that then mean that, unfortunately, some people who really, you know, didn't think they were doing anything wrong. And perhaps, you know, if it had have happened in isolation, would have probably carried on with the career, you know, is that a symptom of an argument with less nuance? And I think that's sort of happened for better for worse.

Well, I mean, this is one of the rare areas where I agree with my president. My president, I agree with it. But I do think that the media's function at this time and place, and I don't just think the media is this weird blob doing something, but the nuance, media now, whether written, video, audio, nuance is getting just obliterated. And I think part of it is because the web enables that obliteration. It is so easy to hook people with dopamine when they see something they either agree with or adamantly disagree with. So that is kind of the function of our advertising model now and how we get people to pay attention to things.

But you're totally right. Like the more nuance that is kind of, you know, taken away from some of these things, like the more we can't have these subtle, like different perspectives on things, it's just we run the risk of completely turning into this just like faction based society, which I don't think anyone wants. No one, that's like, that's not their ideal, you know?

Yeah, but it is fun for some people.

Well, it's addictive. It's a habitually addictive thing.

The only thing I would say with that as well is Trump has probably got a point about fake news, but the reason why he's bringing it up and...

Yeah, sticking to it so aggressively is because he wanted to usurp the Murdoch Fox News and create his own right-wing news corporation. And that he thought that running for president would be the springboard to that and there he's actually got to go and do the job.

Yes.

You know, is the reason why he's going on about the fake news is because he wanted to own the news as well. He's still doing it tomorrow. I mean, this is what I read when I pop back in, he's got the fake news awards. This is the president of the United States, literally. I mean, it's just unreal. And like, you know, I laugh at it too. And I'm not really, maybe I should be, but I'm not that concerned that like this is Stalin-esque and that this is the, this happens right before we live under a despot. I just think he's an idiot and I think that he is, we'll do whatever he thinks is worthwhile to energize his base 'cause he feels the love from them and that makes him feel happy for a little bit until, you know, he needs another Big Mac.

But the truth is like, that shit is crazy that he does this stuff.

It is just absolutely insane and it does delegitimize the press and people like me who really don't trust mainstream media organizations already. It does undermine the people who work at those places who are trying to do real journalism, who are trying to provide nuance who are trying to provide insight into things that, you know, we need to know about. Like I, we all know what Trump's eating for lunch, but how many people know that we now have warrantless NSA spying on all United States citizens for no reason? Like that's a slightly bigger deal than the filet of fish, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. But like with everything, with everything around the guy, it's promoted in the style of sort of heavyweight, boxing, super fight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And everything. Like when, that's how it genuinely, how it felt when I stayed up to watch the debates when he was running. The night that he assembled all the Clinton-

I know, I know, I know.

It's out of control.

And then, and then, you know, Bill Clinton was there in the audience and just had to sort of sit, sit back and take it. Without, it was just like, I was going, right, we've moved on to the next stage in, it feels like an unprecedented sort of time.

It is. Well, here's what I think is actually going on. And I've got a glimpse of this, you know, a decade or so ago. I think reality, as we like to think of it, is showing more signs of, you know, not holding together as much as we would like. We're seeing more and more cracks in the foundation of our conceptual reality. We see this with a lot of different things. We see it with kind of the de-legitimization of our national governments. We see it with just the ridiculous, like people will find out more and more, and I've been talking about it nonstop, but like cryptocurrency, this is not normal.

This is not, this is an economic paradigm that we are not prepared to deal with, or really have any conception of what's happening. And I don't mean that Bitcoin is going up in value. I believe today it's even crashing. What I mean is that they're going to be legitimately new ways for people to not only generate money, but spend their time. And more will come out about this in the coming weeks and years as people understand, but our reality doesn't work like it used to, you know? And that is a both, I've said this before, both incredibly liberating, but also incredibly terrifying, you know, because if things aren't working the way they used to work, how do they work, right?

That's the question. And I think what I keep coming back to in that is, it's the same answer, you know? You want to change something out there, you start with yourself. You want to get shit straight and figure out how to become clear and what you should be doing, you start with yourself. So we have these examples out there. And like truthfully, I am grateful to people like Donald Trump. He is kind of pushing these things to the forefront, this horribleness that exists, typically underneath what we want to look at, he's pushing it to the top where we have a decision to make. Do we fight against it as much as we can, call names, chastise, you know, fuck these people, let's just destroy them and then that'll be it.

Or do we try to figure out what the hell is this showing us about ourselves, too? Like the truth is, and no one really wants to admit this, we all have Trump-like tendencies. Maybe they're not exacerbated to the level that they are with him, but we all have them, we all do fucked up shit. Like I yell at my dog, you know, my dog is like a young, my dog, like legitimately yell at him. Like if someone who had a video montage me screaming at my dog over the past year, they'd be like, oh my God, I'm not listening to this podcast anymore. But I mean, it gives us, what I'm saying is, it provides us the opportunity to use these external like circumstances and situations to cast the gays back on ourselves to be like, do I do that?

You know, is this something that I engage with? You know, one last anecdote about this is, I remember there was someone I followed on Twitter like four or five years ago, and the guy would just always annoy the shit out of me. He'd take some really obvious, you know, article about politics or something, and then just literally shoot fish in the barrel. Well, this person's an idiot, and this is why this. And I'd always got so mad at him that I would write back and be like, you don't know what you're talking about. That's dumb. And then one day it clicked for me that I'm doing what he's doing, but he's my article.

And I was like, holy shit, why am I doing this? Like I'm literally getting mad at him for something I'm doing at the exact same time. I took one step back, I unfollowed him. My Twitter's been a dream since then. So it really like, I bring this up that all these things happening out there really do give us an opportunity to deal with our own shit, which is the benefit, you know?

Yeah, and that's it. I think there's, it's just a, you know, when you catch yourself doing that sort of stuff, you realize, oh, it's just misplaced. You know, you're just feeding into a loot.

Yes, you're on, and you know, there's no real point to that. So that, 'cause I don't tweet nearly as much as I used to, for that sort of reason, you know, get exhausted having it being a constant feedback loop.

Yes.

Oh, this person has replied this. I've got to go back and say this sort of thing. You know, good or all bad.

Yeah, totally. And like, I think I'm going to do February. I'm going to try doing no social media.

Cool.

Just see what, you know, what can be achieved. 'Cause it does waste, you know, as much as you think I'm being connected and what, or else, it, you know, it doesn't really change anything, you know, immediately in your, in your life.

It doesn't at all, and I can again testify to that fact for the most part, up until like a week ago, I wasn't even on Twitter. I was just doing the crypto stuff. And my life did not substantially change, you know? Listen, all this stuff can enable us to have deeper connections with people. But the tendency to just get carried away in that feedback loop, what you're talking about, like that's, that's what happens to most of us, most of the time. So I'm curious to hear what happens after you take a break from a little bit. I've never done that, you know? It's like--

Well, I just watched, 'cause there's a couple of interviews with the original writers of Facebook, and the guys are going, look, we've created a monster. This is about it, you know? Because it's ended up hijacking people's in built, you know, reward systems in whatever else. So it'll be interesting to see whether I can, whether I can, you know, go off the grid.

I think I'll still keep texts and emails and stuff.

Yeah, don't be seen.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, that'd be crazy.

Yeah, what are you nuts, Jack?

Yeah, I mean, I probably sound a little bit like an addict that's going, oh, well, I'm just there. I'll just keep my methadone to file.

Just in case.

Yeah, just in case I need it. I don't need it, but yeah, I think it's good to be a bit connected still.

Yeah, I mean, we live in a time where we have this ability, I don't think, you know, if we believe that we incarnated for reasons, we would incarnate in this time just to not use this stuff. I think we still need to be mindful about its function in our lives. But yeah, I mean, there are, like, you know my stance on this, I do believe for the most part, technology is neutral. And it doesn't mean the technology we're using was designed for neutral and tense. I mean, it could be a completely subversive, you know, bad thing, but we do have the ability to engage and use it how we want to. Dude, we're gonna go in a little bit, but I, are you, do you have any upcoming projects or things you're working on?

I know not right at the moment, but like.

Yes, so I've got a couple of things coming out, but I don't know whether you'll be able to get them in America. So I've got a, I've got a sitcom that's over here at the moment called "Trollied" segment, "Supermarket". And then I've got a couple of radio for "Pamel shows" coming out in the new year. And then I've got a BBC drama that's coming out in March as well, I think. And then obviously I've got the movie as well, which hopefully will be released this year. So that's exciting.

I mean, first of all, I can get anything. So I will be getting those things.

Yeah.

I'm just, man, I'm just really happy. I mean, I forget how long ago we met three, four or something like that.

Yeah, I wanna say 20, maybe sort of early 2014.

Yeah, something like that. But I mean, it's been, you know, a lot has happened since then. And one thing that I'm happy to see pan out is, you know, success continues to find you because, you know, you'll get this as time goes on, but this, who you are as a person enables what happens to you, you know? And sometimes that makes less sense than others, but like, dude, I'm not surprised that "Good Chick" continues to happen to you.

Yeah, man. Well, you know, I think it's, it's sort of the, philosophy of the secret with a lot of the boo-woo stuff and take it away, if you do, you know, if you try and do the work and, you know, fulfill the conditions with which the stuff happens, then, you know, hopefully that increases the probability of the stuff happening to you, which is good.

That's absolutely right. So I'm gonna end it with three quick questions. I don't know if we did these the last time, and then one little open format one.

Right.

What's your favorite color?

Blue.

Nice, what's your favorite number?

10.

Why 10?

Because, I don't know. I think I like the way it looks. I don't know why that is. There's no view, though.

No, I love it. The polarity of one and zero, my friend. It's perfect for this episode. What's your favorite animal?

Oh, a dog, definitely a dog.

And what's a practical tip that you could share with people listening that's helped you in your life?

I think, I think it's, this is it.

Right.

I'm gonna say that an important thing to do is, and I know it seems quite simple, but if you can try and do some sort of some form of physical exercise three times a week, because that seems to, because then in some, well, it's not in a weird way actually, but it really, it does help you be able to then think about things and take a step back and assess where you, you go in wrong.

I could not agree more. Five years ago, I would've been like, yeah, okay, cool. I really recently in the past two years started jogging and just getting more physically active. And at first, it's a bitch and it sucks. But then after a while, you do get into these spaces where you do have that space, like to actually process what's going on in your life and it's invaluable. So I love that that's your tip, man. It helps remove some of the clutter out of the way I think.

Yes, yes, yes.

You know, that's, I think that's built in. So, but yeah, I think that would be it. That's the thing that's helped me a lot. 'Cause you can get trapped in your own thoughts to speak. I mean, good to, you know, you can do as much reading and that sort of thing as you like, but sometimes you need to do some actual physical work to be able to then assess the more academic stuff with a clear head.

I love it, man. Jack, thank you for coming on again. Let's try to do these a little more regular and let's stay in touch. I mean, one of my favorite people, always a pleasure to speak with you, dude, thank you.

It's always a wicked conversation. So thank you for having me on there. I've got some stuff to go and think about now.

Yeah, man, that's what it's about. Watch that, "Watch Hang the DJ" black mirror episode. You will like it. - Yeah, I will do. And yeah, let's try and make it more regular if the cheeseburger overall of your country doesn't blow as old as we're doing. (laughing)

Good, let's do it, man. Dude, it's been a pleasure. We'll speak soon. - Yeah.

Bye-bye. - Bye, bye.

Peace. (upbeat music) ♪ It's strange when you sigh on my face ♪ ♪ We put it on ♪ ♪ I never dream that I met somebody like you ♪ ♪ You, you, you ♪ ♪ I never dream that I knew somebody like you ♪ ♪ No, you, you, you, you ♪ (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

I hope you enjoyed that episode. I'm sure you did. How can you not jacks the best? He's the coolest. Go check him out and trolleyed if you are in the UK or able to get that. I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna tell you how I'm gonna get it, but I'm gonna watch it. Can't wait to watch it. Jack's hilarious. That's it for this episode. Big thanks to Patrick Nemchik. Oh, oh, thank you, Patrick, for getting the episode out. That's what I was saying. I forgot. There's another way to join. I know this seems like some plant. Oh, I forgot. I legitimately forgot. There's one other way you can join that Discord server.

Don't do this before this month because you can get in for free now. But starting February, you can actually link Patreon to Discord. So I've done that. It's gonna cost $400 a month to get into that Discord. You can also pay annually. You can email me for details. I'm just, you know, if you're listening past the episode, you're kind of getting, trying to get a sense of how much it's gonna cost to be in this group. And you can get in for free now. That's a good gauge. So that's it. Guests continue to come. See, I told you. It's not just gonna be me every week. Thank you for the people who said they enjoy the solo podcast.

I enjoyed doing them. I just talk. I like talking. At least you haven't been able to figure that out. So that's it for this week. And I will see you next week.