Death and Money with Kelly MacLean

(upbeat music) (dramatic music)

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity. (dramatic music) (dramatic music)

Welcome to synchronicity. My guest this week is Kelly McLean. You may know Kelly from a wonderful podcast called The Dow of Comedy. If you don't know it, what have you been doing? Probably better than this podcast, but she's on this podcast today, so it's not better than this one, but maybe so now, I'm just fucking around. Really though, Kelly, I know I see this a lot, but you guys are catching on, right? This is episode 121, I think. It's a power drone. You know, there's not that many people who have been on here. They're all, I can have, I think, up to 250 favorites. I'm gonna cap it there. After 250, then I'm talking out of my ass, but Kelly really is truthfully one of my favorite people.

You'll see why in this episode. She's been on before, just pleasant. Side note, Kelly, one of the best huggers I've ever met. I don't know if I said that in the previous episode, just true, you notice those types of things. So we talk about lots of stuff here. Listen, guys, cryptocurrency, I know. I know, I know I won't shut up about it, but you got, this should hopefully provide some insight into what my rationale is behind accepting the crypto vortex into my life. So, you know, you're gonna hear a lot of stuff. I've beeped some numbers. I don't know why, beep them. I guess I'm just not comfortable having that out there.

I don't know why. It's a barrier. You'll hear them, you won't hear them, figure them out. I don't care. But the point is, is that we're gonna get into two pretty, touchy subjects. Basically, the only touchy subject we omitted was sex. And, you know, maybe the word is mentioned a few times, but we didn't really do a deep dive into that. But we do mention two of the other big ones, money and death. So, this is a fun episode. And I say this because we usually, at least in public situations, I often am far too revealing, which is the irony of bleeping out some of these numbers. But I usually get in trouble with Alexis for being far too casual and liberal, you know, speaking about money in particular.

Death sheet doesn't really have a problem with, but you obviously know some people can get very uncomfortable by death. And especially if people are approaching death or getting closer to it can make them even more uncomfortable. So, from Kelly and I's perspective, Kelly faced a very serious tragic event in her life two years ago when her brother died in a car accident. And she kind of sent her world upside down in a lot of ways in her families too. And, you know, I described this, we were, I was saying this the other day to another friend that sometimes, you know, all signs are pointing that you need to make a jump.

You know, you need to jump out of your comfort zone, take some new leap, see what's gonna happen. You know, that's all the signs are pointed at. And you had that option, you're gonna jump. Should I jump, should I not jump? Maybe you oscillate, who knows? Sometimes you're just pushed. This is what people sometimes don't mention. You just get pushed for whatever circumstance it is. Like, you get pushed. So, Kelly was pushed down this path and, you know, she was very good to basically get to the point where she integrated it in her life. She's a comedian, she's a writer. She's just a deep thinker in a lot of ways.

And she transmuted it into a podcast, into our art. And just, it's awesome. So, that's her in a nutshell. But specifically, she's working on an upcoming movie and film about death. And you'll hear what she's talking about in this. And I'm really just super excited to see the finished project and to see what happens from it. 'Cause I have a pretty good feeling about it, if I'm being honest. It's gonna be pretty good, I'm pretty sure. So, that's what this is. I don't need to talk for a tremendous amount of time because this episode is one of the longer ones, which I think you'll be happy about. 'Cause I've done, I'll give you a couple examples, why I think this is a good episode.

So, I do not listen to every single episode before I release it. I mean, I listen to it to make sure that there's not horrible errors or something bad. But I don't actively really edit what's going on ever. So, I usually don't have the extra hour, hour and a half to listen to an entire episode. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. So, this one I listened to basically right after we recorded it. I had some time, I have some time today, I finished it. And I usually don't do that. And it was awesome. Mainly, the parts were Kelly is talking, fortunately. I talk a lot during it. But, you know, there's some of these conversations, if you keep revisiting them or looking at them from different angles or different periods in your life, they could take on a different meaning.

And I have a sense that this is gonna be one of those. And I also like seriously, just follow the Chogim Trunka, Lanny-age, wherever it may pop up. And you may notice some interesting people for sure. You know, it doesn't guarantee either amazing people or cool people, even, but there's some interesting stuff. In this case, Kelly is both interesting and cool. So, I know, I'm inflating her ego as much as I can. You know, she gave me great advice. You hear this, my ego gets a little out of control and I pretend I'm a better person than I am because I'm specifically setting up things to help people, I'm so great.

She calls me on that bullshit right away. So, another one of her benefits, that's it. Thank you to everyone who's participating in the podcast. I barely, listen, what's been really cool is, for those of you who have been joining to Discord this month, I think you get what's going on. I will end with this, and I mentioned it in this episode. I recently posted on my personal Facebook page that I'm offering portfolio setups and consulting for cryptocurrency. And I knew exactly what I was potentially inviting into my life, if not explicitly, then at least, you know, subconsciously. When you see something like that, especially when cryptocurrency is having this moment, right?

It's totally having a moment. You can react in one of two ways. You can say, holy shit, Noah, really? You're turning into a huckster. You're just gonna con people and this crypto spirit. What a, what has happened? Someone said that, Steve, listen to the podcast. I don't know if you're listening to this one, but he said, I started following Noah for, I forget exactly how he found me, but, you know, it was really interesting. And this is going in a totally different direction, unfollowing. Thank you for the comments, Steve. There was someone else who really like took me to task or tried to, and luckily there was someone else.

Thank you, Matt, for coming in who is just a cool dude. You know, we're not like close friends, but he, some of them were friends on Facebook and he came in and was like, hey, you know, condemning someone without knowing the specifics of what you're condemning is no better than being a snake oil salesman. So my main point is this is, some people are gonna think this is a scam. Some people are gonna think this is a money grab. I've been clear that this is not an advertisement for my services. If you're listening to this, I'm not giving you an email to get in contact with me because I'm really only limiting this to people.

I'll make personal organic networks, but the Discord is still free. If you wanna go in there, it's totally free. There's no hard sell that's going on. It's not gonna be free next month, but you're listening to this now, it's totally free. So you can join that by going to sinkpodcast.com. Figure it out, you got it. I don't need to pitch you on this. I think you'll be happy if it's something you're interested in and if not, you can get in there and just yell at me. How about that? That's fair. Okay, said I wasn't gonna ramble, totally ramble. Well, let's get to the episode without further ado. Here is the wonderfully magical Kelly McLean.

(upbeat music)

Yo.

What's going on?

Hi, nice to see you.

Nice to see you.

How's things?

Kelly, I don't even know what to say. It's just, we've officially entered some alternate reality where I don't even know what to say about it. We'll talk about it on the podcast, but basically money doesn't work like it used to and now everyone can have as much of it as they want, which sounds insane, but it's actually how it's working.

And money's not just money. It's like 30 monies, but which is what?

It's basically like, I've had Bitcoin for since 2013.

Well, good for you.

Right, but I gambled to a way when it was like $200. Like I never thought it would ever hit this point. And I like most people who had maybe a little bit just held onto it. And it's not like I have a bunch of Bitcoin. I have one Bitcoin. And so I was like, oh, maybe one day it'll be like $50,000. That'll be really cool, like awesome. But this weird thing happened where this other Bitcoin forked off of it, that basically became free money at like $1,700. So it's like, all right, there's all these other currencies out there. What the fuck is this shit? Like what is going on here? Like let me see if something's going on.

So I put some money in made really quickly in late November, like a few thousand dollars. Then I had about $6,500. And basically December was an insane month. I started doing my own research, started figuring everything out. And I got right (beep) dollars. The shit is like, no, it's bugged out. More importantly, like I figured out that I'm actually very good at this and more importantly, why I'm good at it. And I started this little community off the podcast where we're like doing it together in this server. And everyone is making like shit loads of money. But more importantly, we're like teaching ourselves how to be generous and compassionate and like not just shitheads with money 'cause everyone's gonna make money who's in it at a certain point because we're pretty early on.

But like how to be not horrible people. How do we fund things like MindPod Network or events we like and not have to worry about like how do we get advertising dollars. It's not profitable, but actually create systems that support what we're trying to do. So that's-

That's so cool.

It's fucking nuts.

I love that.

How much do you have to put in to start out?

Not, I mean, I have friends who put in like 200 bucks who have like a few thousand now.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah.

Well, we should talk about that more. We would totally be interested. It sounds like you're really good at that.

It's fucking insane. I mean, it's all predicated. Like a lot of people-

It's such monopoly money to me. I don't get it, but-

It's insane. I mean, understand that the basic principle of what the technology is is it just cuts out middlemen. It's a public ledger that's upheld by everyone collectively. So instead of sending our money to banks, like if I wanted to send you money, like Venmo, right? Let's say I've Venmo you 200 bucks. We know the credit card processors are getting a few views. The credit card, the bank, Venmo's taking a cut. It'd be like the only fee that would be between us is the cost of sending it directly to each other. That is just for the currency aspect of it. But if you look at it from other like areas of business, media, arts, entertainment, do you start cutting out middlemen from all this shit?

Stuff starts to get a lot different and things mean a lot different and the people who are used to making money by just being in the positions of having money, that paradigm kind of starts to erode a little bit. And if you can kind of identify, like listen, a lot of this shit is gonna be like.com. 80% by my estimation of looking out there at the projects now are not gonna be around in like two to three years, but there's gonna be Amazon's, there's gonna be Google's, there's gonna be-- - Right, so it's a matter of finding which one, 'cause if you had put your money, if you had put a lot of money in Bitcoin, however many years ago, then you'd be doing very good now, right?

Yeah, I mean-- - Except that it has--

It's cool. - It's not what it was, like two years ago? - A month ago, yeah.

Two months ago was $8,000. I mean, I'll tell you what the best part of this is, Kelly. Like, I'm sure you know, I'm not a money obsessed person, which is why this is interesting to me, but making other people like fuckloads of money is the most fun thing I've ever done. Like my mom-- - Amazing.

Wow. - And know that it's not like some frenzied mania Ponzi scheme, it's like there's legitimate shit going on here. So it's pretty cool. But that has obviously turned my life upside down. It's like-- - Holy shit, I had no idea.

Yeah, and I've been taking care of you why every day too. So it's just like-- (laughs)

Well, and that's the thing you can do, you can make money from home.

Yeah, yeah. - Make money while you sleep. How do you pick them out? How do you know?

So I got into this in probably the perfect time and since this has been around, late November was right before like everything was doing well. Like you could have been a monkey throwing a dart and probably done well, but I really dug into the fundamentals of this stuff and like I wanted to understand if I was putting money in, especially when I had big profits from something like, what am I putting my money in? You know, that way, if it went down, I know not to sell it because I believed in it or I would be aware of what was going on and I just basically plugged into some communities, basically kept my research from other external sources.

So like YouTube, podcasts, websites, I don't read any of that shit. I literally filter it out. - Really?

I do not read a single, honestly, I was at Reddit before, Reddit a month and a half ago was okay, but most of the time it's just people shilling their own stuff. It's this whole weird kind of like ecosystem that's not very helpful for most people. Some people are really good at like reading an article and being like, hey, like I get this. This makes a lot of sense. I'm gonna, you know, go do what they say. To me, I played fantasy football for a really long time and I'm very, very good at it. And the second I decided to stop listening to the like, the pundits, I started winning all my leaks. So it's like, I just, I'm the type of person who I trust my own faculties to understand something 'cause I like, I have a very, by the time I'm getting to the point where I'm telling someone else like, I think you should put your money here or I think this is a good play.

Like, I've vetted that shit so much. Like I'm very-- - But how are you vetting if you're not getting it from research? Is this, do you have some-- - My other research.

Do you have psychic guides, psychic Bitcoin guides? I mean, I can't, there's definitely some like, grace aspect to this going on because like, for instance, like my biggest holding right now, I was 100% Bitcoin before December. I only have 10% of my portfolio is Bitcoin. So a (beep) is in this other thing called VE chain. And I got it originally when it was like 66 cents. It's $8 now. Outside of that, and this, there's whole other aspects to what these nodes, they create other coins that are worth without. But anyway, the reason I started getting it is 'cause the CEO is the former CIO of LVMH China.

So I was like, huh, that's interesting. Like they have Louis Vuitton and luxury brand relationships, that's interesting. So I started getting it then. And then as I started like reading more about what I was getting into, I realized like, holy fucking shit. Like this is the diamond in the rough. This is something that's literally gonna be like $50 to $100 by the end of the year. Like I know this. And then I kept reading more and reading more and reading more. Found out about some other unique opportunities in terms of cashing out is a big problem with this is if I pull out like 50K, I gotta pay taxes on that shit.

That sucks. I have some plays where you actually can get a loan to leverage your crypto assets. So it counts as a loss when the money hits your bank account. So you don't pay taxes on a loss. Like shit like that. So, you know, it's like anything else I get interested in. Like if I really think there's validity to it, I wanna make sure that like, I'm not wasting my time. Someone else's time is certainly not money. But my principle is all out. Like this could go to zero and I'm up like a lot. So, but yeah, it's a real thing. It's early on. I don't think it's gonna be like this in six months. I don't, I think once a lot of money starts.

The other bet I made is this Kelly essentially. Institutional money like hedge funds are in this a little bit right now, but the overall market cap is 500 billion. That's nothing. When this starts to like, when they really start pouring their money in, if you're ahead of them in line, like best, if you wanna cash out, that's their money. So it's, you know, I think there's gonna be a window where this is like this, 'cause like stock market, I never played stock in or did any of this shit. It's like Warren Buffett's a genius. He makes 19% a year. I'm up 2,000% in a month. And not because of blind luck or it's just a great market.

Like the market has been tanking for this past month. I've quadrupled what I had start coming out of December. Like it's insane. So, you know, I'm just putting everyone on right now because at first I did it with my immediate family, then I started doing it with some friends, then I started doing like, I'm charging people for this now.

Well, you should.

Yeah. And I came to terms with it very quickly just because I was like, you know, what I'm charging in comparison to what anyone is gonna make is like, it's laughable. And more importantly, I want people to take it seriously.

Well, it allows you to do it more for more people too.

And I want people to take it seriously. People who think this is just a free like, hey, this is so easy, you do whatever you want. Like I have a free server now that I'm turning into a paid one starting February, but everyone should be able to learn these skills because it's more about what we like, the mindfulness, the equanimity, the not getting greedy. That's what allows us to have kind of these superpowers where everyone else is just chasing the new thing. I gotta get rich so quick. I can't wait for my Lamborghini. Like it's very interesting how these things merge.

Well, it sounds like it's like podcasting when Duncan Trussell first got into it. It was like, he got into it early and stuck with it. And therefore he's been able to grow kind of an empire. Whereas if you're starting now, it's like, good luck. You know, it's a completely different landscape 'cause there just wasn't a lot of that out there and he mastered it before it was, you know, a thing.

He got the connection between, yeah, he got it. It's true.

He's very much timing though, right? Like he knew that it was, and I think he says somebody gave him advice. Maybe he said that on your podcast that somebody gave him advice. Like you need to stick with that and that that he felt like was the jackpot.

You know it.

Advice.

You know it too. Like podcast, like this is worth us talking about on air for this stuff, which we'll just say we are. Like the truth is, it's like podcasting has been this very weird thing, at least in my life, where I try to fit in, is this a professional endeavor? Is this something that's gonna lead to money? Is this something where it's clearly community building? That's apparent to anyone who does it.

Yeah.

What I learned through all this cryptocurrency stuff is when your like Venn diagram of interests begin to overlap like in the zeitgeist culturally, your podcast community can be completely turning to something else. Like this crypto sync community that I started is like, this is my business and livelihood in a lot of ways now. But my podcast is what really funneled it. Like the people who are in there are really cool fucking people from my podcast. So it's interesting how, yeah, maybe we're never gonna have dunk-in levels unless we break out in some other area. But really like, I know your podcast at least, like people who really are big fans of buy-in pod network, like that's always like one of their top one or two.

So I mean, it's just, you probably underestimate even though our audiences aren't as big, how worthwhile a lot of these things are too.

Well, I think it's really, well, thank you. And I think it really is worthwhile. I mean, I find it super worthwhile just for myself, first of all, to get to have the excuse to get great people to sit down with me, you know, and have that kind of real conversation. You're like, it's like you get to soak up their wisdom like a sponge and to have that many different perspectives and that much depth over years is just extremely lucky from these kinds of people. But yeah, I think it really means a lot more to certain people than we realized to hear this kind of conversation happening which doesn't really happen.

You know, I think Julia who helps out with the network now, she told me, she didn't know, she was like, I didn't know people talked like that. And she said listening to mine pod actually really helped save her right after her mother died. And she said, none of my friends talk about this stuff. They don't talk about death. They don't talk about consciousness. They don't talk about heartbreak. And she said, I didn't even know people did talk like that. So it's pretty incredible.

Yeah, and I mean, I think that's essentially what we're talking about in any of this stuff. But outside of our grandiose takes on podcasting and everything else, what's been going on with you? We haven't connected in a little bit. What's your life been like?

Yeah, well, I've mostly been writing as per usual and I also work for a website that I was just starting to work for when I saw you last, called whenyoudie.org. And it's an associate producer on a documentary about death and dying. And basically it's gonna be in three parts and the first part is gonna focus on consciousness. So hopefully it'll be a three part series for Netflix or we're talking to Gaia of various places. The first one is about consciousness. What actually happens to consciousness when you die?

Awesome.

And we have like the leading doctor that is actually studying what happens to the brain after death and what happens to consciousness. And he works in the intensive care unit and he has so many people die and about 10 or more percent of them say that they stayed in the room when they then come back for the near death experience or he calls it actual death experience. So he's begun a study where he actually monitors what happens to their consciousness when they have a near death experience. And it's really fascinating. Like some people say that one guy died on the table and then came back 10 minutes later or whatever.

And he said, my consciousness hovered to the top of the room. I was looking down on everything in the doctor knocked over the side table which verifiably happens and then he's like, and then I dropped back into my body. So there's some really cool stuff there. So it's looking at saying goodbye in grief is one of the segments and consciousness is one of them and then the body and green burial and you know what.

Right, you were mentioning that before.

Yeah. So that's been really fascinating. I've been to two death conferences and I've just learned a ton about this, which is funny 'cause I didn't set out to do any of this. But once you start talking about this stuff, like I had an hour long interview with Texas NPR. People just wanna hear, you know, people wanna talk about it 'cause it's a conversation that's been suppressed for a long time.

Totally.

So that's been something that I've been doing a lot of writing and research for as well as some interviews with the top doctors and people that wanna reinvent how we die and design a new way to end well rather than just wasting away in the hospital on machines when you're gonna die anyway.

Yeah, all right. Well, we got ourselves a meaty topic here and I'm not surprised.

That's a good one too.

Yeah, I'm not surprised that like people are interested once you start talking about death with people that it becomes kind of like a hook that you go deeper with because it has a way of cutting through bullshit really quickly and you can also quickly determine if someone is willing to have a conversation about death 'cause some people are like, oh yeah, like it's terrible. Like that's a bad thing and that's kind of as far as they wanna go, but for the people--

Absolutely.

Yeah, but for people who don't, like you're really gonna get into some stuff. So let's start in order with what you mentioned 'cause like I'm sure you're learning things. I've always been pretty interested in consciousness outside of the body, even when we dream, something like that.

Absolutely, we've had that experience of feeling. I mean, I've woken up and felt like I was in a different part of the room or area, right?

Yeah, totally. What do you think, what are you discovering or what are your thoughts on what happens after we die to consciousness? And I'm not hammering, you know, nailing you down to this. (laughs)

Right, I mean, we haven't gone so far as to look into the, you know, some sort of scientific, I think there are people who would like to have some sort of scientific proof of reincarnation or heaven or proof that nothing happens, you know? I don't know if you've seen that Netflix has a couple of, Netflix has the OA, which is all about this. So there really are doctors out there kind of trying to do that, but hopefully, and that's cruel, I'm keeping people at gauges, yeah.

Hopefully not that, but it definitely sounds as though consciousness continues after death and it usually is, manifests as hovering and looking over and the accounts generally talk about like a blissfulness or a joy or a white light, kind of like a relief, a liberation moment, a moment where, you know, everything changes in one instant and you have the, I believe that there's the availability to rejoin with that primal essence that some people call God and for some of us, it's just the, you know, the light nature of everything.

Yes, yes, yes.

And so I think that it can be a very joyful, maybe naturally it's actually a very joyful thing. There's also some really cool research. There's a doctor named Anthony Bosis who is, he's at John Hopkins and he's researching, actually I think he's at NYU now and he's researching psychedelics at the end of the light and end of life care, and he has people who are on their deathbeds that he's giving a psilocybin pill to, or not quite their deathbeds, maybe they're well enough to function, but they're terminally ill and they're dealing with a lot of grief and end of life trauma, you know.

Just still suffering, something, yeah, yeah.

All of that, and just the stress of knowing you have to say goodbye to everyone. People get really, obviously, traumatically hung up on that, and when they take the pill, it turns out that they have this experience of touching that universal interconnected quality, and they walk away saying things like it really is a circle of life, everything, all of time happens in one instant, it's all love, it's only love, and it's not just this one moment that they have liberation from their suffering, it completely changes their minds, and it's actually six months later is the point where there's generally a peak that they report feeling liberated from fear of death, which was their entire reality before.

So not only is it changing the end of their life, but people are reporting that it really changes the way that they die.

Which is probably the more important of the two since life part of it is gonna be shorter at that point.

Yeah.

Right, but also then they get to really enjoy the last months rather than just shaking in their boots the whole time. Like the main thing is a real liberation from this constant terror of death. So that's really cool, and I think whatever they touch there is probably similar to, it sounds similar to what people report happens at the moment of death, you know, who have then come back.

Right.

So I think actually what I've learned from all of this is that death is a lot less scary than we think it is and we, it's an unknown and we're super afraid of the unknown, but as people actually get closer and touch it, they become less afraid of it. So that's kind of heartening.

I mean, that should be the most heartening thing 'cause those are the people who are actually gonna be the most reliable relayers of information, not us, quivering in our boots, what's gonna happen. I mean, there's a quote that a Rombus used to give worth is like he had a lot of people don't know. It's he had his own like weird spirit guide. I think it was a manual or something like that who told that he asked what's dying like and he's like, "Oh, it's just like taking off an old shoe." Like that's what it's like more than anything else. It's like there's no reason to freak out. Like that's really what it feels like.

And you know, you take it for a comforting thought, whatever it is, but the truth is is, I've read, Evan Alexander, I had on my podcast, you know, him, he had the, what was it, meningitis, bacterial meningitis in his brain was in a coma for like weeks when the only still reported history in medical history of coming back from the specific type of bacterial meningitis and he was a doctor, he was a surgeon. So he was able to essentially relay his experiences not only in surgical detail, but have the knowledge that his prefrontal cortex couldn't have been generating these experiences 'cause it was literally shut down by the virus or the bacteria rather.

So there might have been viral meningitis, it's one of the two, I don't know, it doesn't matter. My point is-- - It really sucked, either way.

It was really bad and he came out of it, but his experiences really challenged his scientific paradigm, his reality paradigm, and obviously altered a lot of his relationships, but it stands out as one of the greatest examples of someone being able to accurately relay from both a scientific and empirical standpoint, but also from these things that where that stuff is just meaningless. I was a worm and then I was a butterfly and then there was these lights, but with pretty good detail to it, it seems like a lot of these experiences line up. It also seems like for people who are open to hearing about these things and don't have that little part of their brain that goes, "Yeah, that's not how it works, no way."

You really can resonate with these stories too. It doesn't feel like some put on or just some comforting thought that we wanna tell ourselves. It seems like there's some truth to it, which I always use as much as anything as an example of something that could be true. So we think the conscious or we have a sense that consciousness continues on or something happens that our body isn't the final form. What have you learned in terms of the people who are approaching death? Like have you delved into that a lot and what their thoughts and emotions are? And also, obviously, you know this like the flip side, the living, death affects the living as well.

Well, yeah, it absolutely does. I think for some people, when particularly we're talking about people that we talk to people who are terminally ill, right? Because obviously if you walk out the door to take the trash out and you get hit by a bus, it's a very different experience. I'm sure that being launched into the other side is very different than when you have time to psychologically prepare and say goodbye and whatever. But for people that are at the end of their life, it generally is hand in hand with illness, right? And people that become really ill start to feel like they look in the mirror and they don't recognize themselves and they say that this is not what I look like.

And my friend, the death tool that tells them, yeah, and now you see you're more than your physical body. You felt like you were you, but now you know, you still feel like yourself, but you don't look like yourself. That's just how cancer looks on your body. That's not you. But now you know, it's really not about your shell. So there is this shell quality to it. The Chinese also say death is like changing clothes, which is like, oh, all right, fine. (laughs)

I need a wardrobe upgrade, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, and the sickness, I think sometimes is merciful in a way because it helps us let go of our bodies, which in at least in Buddhism, they say it's what you're most attached to even more than your lover or your whatever, your own physical body is what you're really attached to.

We're used to it, right? Like stop breathing, hold your breath for as long as you can and see how comfortable that is.

Yeah, but essentially it's a vessel. And now I know there are also shows coming out about, like I think the tagline is no body lives forever. It's also Netflix. And I think it's about futuristic situation where you can transfer consciousness from one body to another, which is essentially manufactured reincarnation.

Right.

But it kind of, I do believe that we go from one vessel to another.

Me too. I mean, it's been my intuitive sense long before I could confirm verbally or speak to other people about it. It feels appropriate. And I think a lot of kids, I'll wait until when Eli starts talking and I'll query him on it. But you know, I think when we're younger, that's something that we all kind of feel too. We're in between these realms of having not been born having just been born and then associating and integrating into the world. And then like you're saying, towards the end of it, we have to contemplate like we've just had quite the experience here. What's next? Is anything next?

We have to say goodbye to these people's in this body.

Right. Yeah, it's crazy.

Right. So what I've learned is that it would be good for you to talk to your son about it. And though we don't talk to kids about this, even though they have a much more natural way of dealing with these things, but we think they can't handle it, but the truth is they're fine. We can't handle it because we weren't talked to about it as kids. We weren't trained to. So something else I've learned is just how few people really have their shit together for the end of their lives in terms of your DNR and your having your wishes written down and making sure your ex-wife isn't still a signer on your hedge fund that you didn't realize and that your current wife gets it or whatever.

Those kinds of details, people get kind of like, they blank out, they space out on them 'cause it's too painful. And then it becomes a huge thing. Oftentimes big fights break out in families over the money and it's like, it's just so good to have your wishes clear. And then also, just to have taken time to talk about these things and embrace that it's a reality. So there's a whole hashtag death positive movement going on. I don't know if you know, Caitlin Dodie. She's a New York Times bestselling author of Smoke Gets in Your Eyes and another book. And she is a mortician in LA. And she's kind of leading this whole movement of getting people to just think about it and talk about it more similar to the sex positive movement where it's like, no, if we don't talk about this and we just choose to go unconscious on it, then there are really big problems.

But if you know, you're gonna have a lot less teen pregnancies and abortions if people know how their bodies work.

Yeah, maybe, just maybe if we actually know how this stuff works. I mean, this gets to the whole thing of like the shadow side. And I think for a lot of us, we can talk about our personal issues and our shadow sides or collective shadows, but a shadow side for us also is fear and death is a pretty big fear for most people, whether we face it or not.

Absolutely.

And I'm sure, I mean, me personally, in my more delusional moments, I'd like to say that I'm, oh, I'm not afraid of dying. It's perfectly natural, of course. But of course, like what do you mean? No, I'm building a life here. I wouldn't be doing that if I just thought it was gonna be great to die the next day. So what that means is I feel like it's a lot like a meditation practice and I'm totally a hypocrite for saying this. I haven't meditated probably in the three, four months, it's true for like, but the more--

You've just been making the bugs.

Making the bugs, baby. What do you think this is? Wolf of Wall Street up here. But the truth is, is that the more you meditate, the more you do anything, the more chant, whatever it is, the more familiar you get with it and the more familiar you get with the subtleties of it. So rather than this big block of fear about death, you can say, oh, well, I'm afraid about this specific aspect of death and that's my attachment to my life right now or attachment to my body. And that makes it a little more manageable rather than this big ominous grim reaper is gonna chop down your life, which I imagine for most people is how we imagine it, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I think the dream state is also a state where you can, I mean, I imagine that the Barto, which I believe Barto just means gap and it's what put us believe happen after you die, I imagine that that has the same quality as being in the dream state. I mean, it could be that when you're awake, you're terrified of falling asleep, right? That makes sense of, you know, if you had never slept before and someone told you, drops you on earth, like, okay, and then it's gonna get dark and then you're gonna close your eyes and you're gonna kind of leave your body and you're gonna, any kind of images can intrude into your brain and, you know, hopefully you'll come back and wake up.

It's scary, but in reality, when we're familiar with it, it's actually an incredibly beautiful space with tremendous potential for anything. And I imagine that's probably a little bit what the Barto is like and that working with a dream state is a good preparation. You've talked to dream people, right?

I have, it's one of my favorite subjects and if we want to get really weird about it, I think the dream-like aspects of our actual going to sleep dreams are starting to bleed into our everyday reality. And I think this is happening more and more and if you're aware of it, it's a little bit easier to navigate but if you're not, shit is getting weird out there in case people haven't been noticing. And I'm not just talking about our cultural stuff, I'm talking about, I mean, Synchronicity is a great name for a podcast but do you know how many people are telling me the weirdest things now? And they're not even like saying that's a weird thing to me.

Ooh, like what, Kimmy one?

Man, I have people who will come to me and say like I was literally just about to, like this is happening a lot with cryptocurrency but people will be like, I was on the fence of whether to do this and I've been a fan of your podcast and I heard you say something, I happened to have the screen open as I was listening, I took it as a sign, I got in, I'm doing really well now, I wanna say thank you. This is happening almost on a daily basis just in that specific arena. But the stories I hear more people of like I had a dream about this person, I saw them the next day, I thought about this happening, it happened a few days later.

Right.

I hear these stories relatively commonly but just in the past month and a half, two months, it's like hyper, hyper drive for a lot of these things. And it's something I've been noticing. I mean, you know, talking about the cryptocurrency stuff, given that money really does manifest a lot of things for people in this world, it's been very weird to have the thought in my head that I'm gonna have X amount of dollars maybe at this point and then see that amount manifest within like a few days, that's bizarro world.

Well, it's really weird. And you know on my podcast, I like to ask what is magic.

Yeah.

Well, money kind of is magic because it only has the meaning that we attach to it.

Right.

And it's almost like a tangible expression of our collective consciousness, right? Whatever's happening with money because it's some tacit agreement we all have. So to see this Bitcoin and this whole digital non-physical currency world break out and be life changing for someone in a moment is it really shows how fluid and not solid or real, the whole fucking thing.

That's my whole, it's bizarre.

So this is what a lot of us are grappling with right now. You, it's like in the same way if your first synchronicity or something really crazy happens to you. The first few times you're like, "Holy shit, what the, did you know that? Oh my God, like this is how what?" That's how you act when it happens the first few times. After a while, it stabilizes and you're like, oh yeah, maybe this is how stuff works. What's happening now is the dominant paradigm you and I, my parents, your parents, their parents have lived in, is money is what we're going to jobs to make money. We're using money to get these things.

They're using this. And this has obviously been warped and manipulated by things far outside of our control. But this is what is making the world go around for lack of a better time. And I've battled that my whole life. I've hated money. I've loved money. I think it's neutral. I, exactly what you said is accurate. It's the value we ascribe to it. So when people say like, you know, Bitcoin scares me or digital currency scares me, I'm like, well, dollars are beginning to scare me. And it's not like I'm more right or you're more right. We just are looking at this a different way. What I also have noticed is there's a new class of people out there and this goes into the dream stuff a lot.

Who have, they're not stock hedge people. They're not people with tremendous amount of capital. There are people like me who bought away more Bitcoin back in the day and are all of a sudden legitimately have like 250 million dollars. Like for nothing, just like a speculative, they put a thousand bucks in back in 2012. This is creating a very interesting dynamic in especially the cryptocurrency world, but the world at large because now we have these people who didn't get silver spoon fed money from when they were young. They didn't have access to some life changing, you know, class or education or whatever it is.

And there are people who are shitheads who have that money. And there are people who are really altruistic people. And we're starting to see the beginning genesis of how this plays out. And for me, my general premise with all this cryptocurrency stuff is it's fun to make money. It's fun, more fun to make other people money. But when you can reduce the financial pressures and anxieties off of your psyche, shit gets a lot different. And I don't mean people.

Well, that's the thing. That's where the old pass a hippie mentality of like money is evil, corporations are evil. You don't need, and there's so much truth to that, you know, point of view. But actually, like you said, money is neutral. And frankly, if I can put more of my time toward doing what I need to do instead of, you know, trying to pay off a credit card, then I'm using my time on earth for more benefit, hopefully for others. And certainly more enjoyment for myself, which I think is part of our purpose here is actually just to have a nice time.

What a crazy thought, Kelly, that we're actually supposed to have a good time and it's not some horrible slog of shit.

Enjoy our senses. That's what they've found like end of life for people. They've found that the five senses are the key gateway to soothing and helping somebody exit well. And that it's a Roma therapy. It's sounds of the ocean playing. It's, you know, being in a room that is the right temperature or having the right snuggly blankets, these very simple things. And I think if that's the key to having a, you know, great final days, the final days are just kind of concentrated versions of any other day, I think. They're just more potent. And so I've been trying to stop and smell the roses a little more or just really feel the sun on my back or, you know, spend another $10 on that bottle of wine because I just might as well indulge in the senses and feel as alive as possible while we're here.

Man, you always get to the best stuff because this is something that I don't think anyone really talks about including myself, which is we're allowed to have fun. We're allowed to appreciate what our bodies allow us to do. I mean, I guess you could look at it like maybe we're giving all these things that we can have the fortitude and willpower to avoid temptation, but that doesn't add up to me.

No, it does not be my experience in life. So I think that's really important because a lot of times having this conversation on the last podcast I did with Jack, Jack Carroll, he's younger than us. He's like, I think he's just 19 or 20 now, but he's a really successful comedian in Britain. He won like our second place in Britain's Got Talent, but one of the wisest young people I've ever met.

Oh, I gotta find him.

He's such a nice guy. Get him on too. He's such a nice dude. He basically was explaining that he feels really guilty sometimes playing video games 'cause he thinks he should be writing jokes or whatever. And I'm like, dude, like, trust me. I had that happen to me when I'm playing games sometimes too, but what I've learned is sometimes you should play games. Like sometimes you're allowed to do something and you might be surprised that if you allow yourself to do that, you naturally have something and it's a little bit easier when you're trying to put your creative mind at work. So it's something we don't talk about.

We talk about being good people, compassionate, generous, you know, altruistic, and all those things are obviously wonderful, but also enjoy yourself too.

Well, absolutely. I tell the story of my uncle Mark by marriage, my auntie Kelly, who's, who I'm named after her husband. Great guy and he definitely enjoyed life. He was a diver and scuba guy and he did, you know, he had a good run, but he also worked, who was also kind of a workaholic and he was saving up, I think he was around 60 years old. He had a boat and he was saving up to sail around the world for the last however many years of his life, probably 2030, you know? And they moved on to the boat. He retired from his job as an engineer where he had, you know, saved up a lot of money to sail around the world.

And he was diagnosed with leukemia the weekend that they're moving on to the fucking boat. And he, you know, I was having shots of Mescal with the little worm salt with him one day and six weeks later he was dead.

Thank you Jesus.

You know, we were doing shots of Mescal and having fresh fish tacos and two weeks later he was diagnosed and it's like, "Well, you can't plan your life." Like, okay, and then I have 30 years on the boat. That's just, you don't know. You're not guaranteed it. So you have to, you have to manage your time accordingly. I'm probably overly guilty of this. Like I'll have guests in town or friends in town and I'm like, "Whatever, life's short, they could die tomorrow." I'm like, "This guy's off early and we'll go have champagne on the beach." But, you know, probably between the two I'd take that approach.

I mean, I think it's, so a lot of the things we're talking about related to death and the potency of those last moments remind me a lot of, and even the physical sensations and how those are important remind me of psychedelic experiences, right? When I've taken something and I've been kind of shifted into this other reality, I want comfy things around me. I want hug people. I wanna smell things. I don't wanna eat. That's weird on psychedelics, typically. But, it's a very important part of what's going on and you also have this openness that can emerge, not always with psychedelics, that kind of just reminds you of what's important and most of the time you're not thinking about your responsibilities, or you must do these things, or this is gonna fall through the web, and most of the time you don't have to do those things.

So, I think if we can just, it's equanimity too, right? There's a balance between those. We're not suggesting just do whatever you want all of the time, even though if you did, that's probably not the worst thing, you just have to balance it with some knowledge and wisdom in your own, like, what do you need to do? Which shouldn't be like work, but like, what do you need to do to make sure you're okay? And the people around you are okay. But those things combined, I mean, wonderful.

Right, it's not necessarily thinking about how little you can do and how much you can enjoy, 'cause there's a sort of cybright God realm approach. It's totally neurotic as well, but I guess it's a balance of those things.

I love that you bring up the God and also the jealous God things. I mean, let's talk about the Bardo states a little bit again too, because this is something, it's one of my favorite subjects, and you're sneakily well-versed in this stuff. You'll be like, "Oh, I really know so much about it," and then you'll be like, "I never heard that before." That's insane. I mean, I think, I was talking to David, or Ethan Nick turn about this, I think. David's turn, and I would say--

Did you have Ethan on?

I had Ethan on a few weeks ago, yeah. Right when I started getting into cryptocurrency, and I was basically like--

I wanna have him on too. Dharma of the Princess Bride. I was like, "That's right along with my podcast."

Do you get him on?

To have comedy, like--

Oh, he's fucking awesome too. He's just got a really grounded, you know, Shambhala, a sensible approach, and is able to like integrate in more of the pop culture stuff that is not like--

Right. - Making it distant. But I was asking him, and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this, you know, I was like, "Hey, what do you think about the realms?" Like, obviously we can look at them in psychological states, totally subscribe to that. I am one of those people who also fundamentally believes that there are real realms that they actually exist somewhere else.

I agree, I was listening to, I think, I was listening to Duncan Trussell and Pete Holmes, so I love whenever they get together, and he was like, Duncan was saying, I mean, obviously these aren't real states, I think that they're, you know, states of mind that we go through, which I completely agree with the fact that there are states of mind that we reside in, you know, I see the God realm and the jealous God realm very much in Beverly Hills, and you know, maybe the God realm is Beverly Hills, and the jealous God realm is Beverly Hills adjacent. (laughs) And I live in Koreatown, maybe Hell realm, I don't know.

(laughs) But I think as much as they're literal physical places and states of mind, I think it may be real realms that we can pass into, and you could even argue, okay, well, maybe you have gone to the Hell realm in a dream, and the Bardo is not saying it's like a real physical place, it's, you know, it's a realm that you can visit, you know, with your consciousness, not necessarily your body, but we've all been trapped in dreams that were total Hell dreams, and we've all been in dreams that were, you know, bliss, God realm kind of experiences.

So what do you think? Do you think this world is like a dream? I'm calling it the dream matrix, officially.

My world sure as shit is like a dream.

Okay, good.

But I'm one of those people that sometimes my, and my mother is very much this way. She has amazing dreams. I'm always like, I was telling her to write them down, and I'm like, I wish I could buy like front row iMacs tickets to your dreams, 'cause they're crazy. She's like sliding down rainbows with carebears, and speaking with like Siddhartha about God knows why. She's really amazing dreams, and mine aren't quite so psychedelic, but sometimes they, it feels more meaningful, more vibrant than the waking state, and I'm one of those people that they say, oh, you can't feel pain in a dream. I can physically feel pain, I can physically feel pleasure.

Yeah, same, same.

All those things.

I get it. I totally get it.

Yeah, it feels just as real. I do think that there are, you know, I think there is the Buddhist saying, regard all Dharma's as dreams, and also we talk about being a child of illusion and just seeing the dreamlike quality, which is also an important way to live your life, because frankly, if you take everything that's really solid and really serious, then it'll just kill ya. So the dreamlike quality also allows you to have laughter. You know, it gives you a little distance to just...

That's what I'm realizing, and weirdly enough, I think the more I just intuitively approach it like that, it gets more dreamlike. And I think what's unique about this, but this has happened to me before at different points in my life, and to varying degrees of success, what feels different at least in this point in time in history is there's not as much attachment to this dreamlike knowledge of this dreamlike world. It's just like, okay, this is what's going on. We're right in this wave. Let's do what we can while we're here to figure this out.

Right, you then also can't hold on to it quite as much.

Exactly, and that makes it much more... I mean, there's not real to begin with.

I know, I know. This is the thing that I think trips myself and probably everyone else up as much as anything else. And I think the second you can really get around it, that's when the magical shit starts to happen. And I mean, like really magical, like... I don't know how to... I would love, listen, we spoke about the fundamentals of why cryptocurrency is working. And I totally believe, and I know that analytical ability has had a lot to do with my personal success, but this shit doesn't. This is also just like crazy magic times. Like, let's be real.

Right, no, that's really like the dreamlike quality of money is especially real in this cryptocurrency. I mean, I literally, I don't even get what it is. Like, maybe you could explain this, but I don't understand. It's just, it's like a made up monopoly money that is not even solid, that is all in the digital realm that everybody just kind of agrees is a thing. And then like more people buy it, so it's more of a thing, I don't know.

Are you just grabbing...

Please help.

Are you just grabbing dollars or Bitcoin?

Well, yeah, I think it's a good question.

So, yeah, so we look at it like this. This is probably the easiest, quickest way to explain just the formation of a digital currency that isn't real quote unquote. So we use dollars in fiat and paper currency because it's theoretically backed by gold. Now, it's Pase to say, that's not really backed by gold. Now, everyone kind of knows that. But the reason we did it, it was much easier to transfer paper and coins back and forth than gold, the balloons and bricks of gold. So it was an ease of use. So the gold is in Fort Knox, it's wherever. We're going to use these, they're totally backed by it. We're good to go.

So it's a convenience thing. It's an easier way to create exchange markets. Now, the other thing to keep in mind with how currency works is Adam Smith, smart guy, probably not great for the world in the long run of things, but created currency in exchange systems, which primarily had a function of helping people with money and valued goods make more of it. Back in the day, like if you went to the Middle East or somewhere else, there'd be bizzars. And what bizzars were, you didn't necessarily give money to buy like goat milk or, you know, a basket. You would exchange what you had or had access to to get something else.

And that's called a free market. And everyone determines the fair price of things based on what they need. That's pretty equitable. This fundamentally changed at a certain point and became, you know, there's money now. You need this to get this. This is now what we're using. So you can think of digital currency. Well, then we had another evolution. Then we have credit cards and debit. And these are centralized digital currencies. When we use our debit cards or credit cards at the bank, we're at a store where it's being sent to a system, ones and zeros, they're saying, okay, this is how much it has, take it out of this, put it here.

We also intuitively grock that the money that we're sending from our cards, our card isn't actually anywhere and it's not actually being moved somewhere else. It's just digits being moved somewhere else. Now, the problem with the current system or one of the problems that was introduced after the bizzars is middlemen become in, right? The banks, the credit card people, people offering loans. And this creates a very unhealthy system. The people with the most capital and the most money are in a position to continue to make the most of it. So we know about the 1%. I just read last month, like all of the wealth generated in 2017, like, 82% of it was from the 1%.

Like, that's who it went to. So we know there's these very unfair things. So now, what digital currency, like Bitcoin, which was the first and now there's many others after it, what we're going to do is create a fair and equitable system that is essentially a public ledger. So it's just something that everyone can look at and is maintained by everyone that says, okay, I sent Kelly $20 in Bitcoin. Here's the address it was sent from. Here's the address it's going to. I send you the transaction ID. We can both look at it as soon as it is confirmed as a real transfer of something somewhere else. It ends up in your account.

It ends up in my account. That's all blockchain technology does for Bitcoin right now. That seems like not a big deal, but if you're cutting out banks, if you're cutting out middlemen, and also another very key point of this is it's decentralized. fiat currency, dollars, yen, whatever it is, the government prints more of those or pulls more out of math circulation to control inflation and deflation. Bitcoin, other currencies work a little bit differently, but they can work the same as deflationary. There's only ever going to be 21 million Bitcoin, and the truth is three or four million of those are probably gone forever.

People lost their wallets and their passwords. They're just not in circulation. So over time, they become more valuable if more money is put in, which is why we're seeing Bitcoin steadily drop.

It's just the fact that you need a password. You decide, now I'm turned off.

But think of it like this, think of it like this. If you one day forgot who you were, or didn't have information to prove who you were, and went to your bank and say, hey, I'm killing McLean, let me get my money. They'd be like, get the fuck out of here. Like prove that this is you. So just think of it like that. Don't think of it like it's some harder or more secure, or you can lose it all. When I say people lose it all, people who lost it, or people who bought this stuff or mined it back in the day when it was worth nothing.

And just forgot about it.

It was forgot about it. It was on a hard drive. They didn't like fuck up and like, oh no, like all my money's gone. That's not what's happening. And then the other last part of Bitcoin in terms of digital currency, in terms of it getting created, like why aren't they just printing a million Bitcoin? And now we're all rich all of a sudden, is it's mined. The way it's mined is computers solve algorithms, equations, and every so often a piece of code is released, and that is Bitcoin. So that's how it's continuously generated. Now outside of all that, Bitcoin to me is a very speculative investment.

I don't view right now as the underlying tech and use case is something that I would feel comfortable keeping the majority or any of my money in really, just a very small percentage 'cause I'm emotionally attached. There are 1400 to 1700 other cryptocurrencies right now. Some of them doing some incredible things. Some of them are total scams. Some of them are total bullshit. Some of them are well-intentioned, but will never come of anything. But just that simple technology of having a public ledger that everyone can see or verify or know that that secure peer-to-peer really has a, will have a tremendous impact on our world.

And this is like, we're on like now, I'd say like the 12th or 13th floor of 100th story building. Last month I was saying, you know, third or fourth, but we're still pretty early on. And I think, you know, if you delve into it, and just to be clear, you don't have to know about blockchain technology. You don't have to know about the fundamentals. Alexis, my wife, you know, she, we've fought for like a month and a half, two months 'cause she thought I'm putting money into a pyramid scheme that I kept saying things and they kept happening. She's like, what the fuck is going on? Maybe he knows what he's talking about.

So the truth is, is that it's not predicated on a knowledge of all this stuff. It's just, it's a fear barrier. That's what I realized, Kelly, as much as anything else. Every time I do something that I'm really afraid of in this space, that I don't think is a bad or risky or I'm just chasing some greed or profit. But every time I'm like, you know what? This is scary, but I think I've thought it through and this is a good idea. I get that this is something I might be wrong, but I'm gonna do it, it's like you're instantly rewarded. And I don't mean it's like foolproof, but like, you know, when you move out of your comfort zone, your world starts to change.

That's why podcasting has such an impact on our lives is because you're literally just like interfacing with different people and aspects of reality.

That makes sense. And they're as pioneers, as wild, less like pioneers, anybody who's brave enough to, it's the people who are brave enough to jump into something totally new like Bitcoin or podcasting or whatever, you know, the kind of Netflix deciding that, you know, it should all be on the internet. And now that's just life for everybody and no one just has a regular cable box anymore. Those are the people that are rewarded are the kind of daring ones that go out on a limb.

'Cause fear is the great limiter, right? It relates to exactly what we're talking about with death. If you can somehow mitigate fear during the dying process, it's not a bad thing, right?

Yeah, you know, astrologically, and I am a closet astrologer because my mother's an astrologer and her mother was, astrologically speaking, the eighth house is the house of death and taxes. It's sex and death and taxes. And in some weird way, I get why those three go together. And what are the three like most taboo things to talk about money and sex and death?

So funny. What's the eighth house? - It's all like Pluto. It's ruled by Pluto Scorpio.

Scorpio, that's bad. - Is associated with that. Yeah.

Very, very, well, y'all tell me.

And if Scorpio is also the sign of fear and fearlessness. So what brings the most fear? Sex, money, death.

All right, well, you now have given me a completely different angle. One of the other cool things I like about the crypto space and we're just talking about lunar cycles and how those impact a lot of this. Like the moon really has a big impact. I didn't know this is never, it's stock, but it really does have an impact on the markets.

Does it now?

Yes. - Interesting. So what happens at the full moon?

Well, this one coming up, if you, it's a huge one.

It's a wolf full moon. Is it your wolf of wall street full moon?

It's, don't get me started on that. I mean, I will get to the, I mainly have to check my ego like every day multiple times a day. It's, it's tough, truthfully in this space. I see it getting to people. The way I do it is I basically, I'm like, listen, if I see it, I'm getting an ego about this shit, I start to give shit away. I'm just like here, I gotta mitigate this by giving something away so I don't think it's me so I can just funnel it back into the world.

Sounds like that could also be ego based.

It is ego based, it's totally ego based. It's, it's such a clever work around.

Right, you're like, yeah, but I'm so generous.

I'm such a good guy, look at my ego. But the truth is this astrological significance of a lot of these things. That's why you're saying Scorpio, I think has way more to do with this than people can possibly imagine. Like in one of the smartest analysts I've found, he's the one who showed me. Like he uses lunar cycles. He's like, next full moon, watch out. Just like, watch out, it's gonna go up. I'm like, really?

Wow.

Just saying.

You're like the, you're like the Bitcoin or cryptocurrency spirit guide, Noah.

I will actually accept.

You're like doing peyote and seeing like what, what you have visions of.

That's not blowing up.

It's not far off. It's not, it's like, it's not far off Kelly in the crazy day.

That's hilarious.

It's fucking working. That's the, that's the craziest part about this.

That's crazy. So what's the least amount of money since we're just doing an advertisement for your services right now? Anyway, what's the least amount of money that someone would put with you? Like just a, like you said a couple hundred bucks. Like is it worth it putting in 500 bucks with you?

Yeah.

I'm a high roller now, Kelly. I hate to tell you that's not enough for my services.

Well, thanks for still talking to me.

Yeah. My truth is, here's what I would say, is there is a free server that I have where we've been helping people who have either zero skills, some skills or advanced skills. It's free this month. I've been talking about it a lot. If you jump in there, it's incredibly helpful. We're literally training a group of people how to remain balanced, smart, altruistic traders. And I think in this space, over time, that trajectory is gonna create some very important things. So that's what you should do.

But alternately, we could just give money to you and have you do it 'cause...

Theoretically, but the truth is it's like, and I posted something on my Facebook the other day that I knew was gonna get both a good reaction and a negative reaction. I was like, listen, here are my services. This is what I'm offering. I'm doing it. This is the minimum you need to invest. And I put it on my personal Facebook. I'm never gonna put up a fucking ad for this. This is as close as I get to an ad. And I mean this, don't hit me up about this because you want me to change your life and make you better. I put it on my personal Facebook page and this dude got really bent out of shape. He was like, just weeks of marketing.

You're a hookster. You're just riding this crypto wave. A monkey could have thrown darts at a board and made money last month. And I'm like, listen, dude, first of all, I don't even know who you are. I don't even know how you're on my Facebook. Second of all, if you think I'm doing this to turn a buck, like you don't know me. And I'm sure a lot of people reading this think that's what I'm doing too. The real reason I'm doing it is I've realized over the past month and a half, and it took a lot of legit soul searching to come to terms with this, that I have an ability to help people right now. And I have ability to help people in a way that's really fundamentally changing their lives.

And after you do that enough, you do wanna help other people. So I'm not going out there saying pay me money so I can help you. I'm saying to my personal organic network, of which a very small percentage of people will see this, see it as a beacon, get in touch with me, I know they're gonna make money. So that's all this is. And eventually, he ended up apologizing, and it was handled pretty well. And I had my community back me up being like, listen, dude, he runs a free server where like, we've all been making a shitload of money. Like don't attack him, attacking someone without knowing the facts is just as bad as being a snake oil salesman.

So I appreciated that, but my point is this is like, you're a question about how much should you invest. The first thing you should do before investing is understand anything you're gonna put in, even though it won't go to zero, if you do, just if you're smart about it, be prepared to lose, like absolutely to say, if this money goes away and is buy-by, you're okay. That's number one. And that has to be the initial amount you put in. If that's $10, it's $10. Whatever it is, that's the most important thing because the last thing we wanna do is ride this great paper money, fictional money, and then have it go to zero and waste it our time, or energy or resources or relationships.

That's pointless. So the first thing you do is be prepared to pull money out that you put in, but also be prepared to lose everything you put in the beginning 'cause that'll at least get rid of the initial fear of losing everything 'cause you're prepared already. The second thing to do is educate yourself about what you're buying. Yes, you can make money now just listening to what someone like me or someone else says. Period, it's that simple right now. But when shit hits the fan and things get wonky and shit starts dropping and it gets weird, if you don't know what you have, you're gonna freak the fuck out.

And the worst thing you can do is get a lot of money or start building up money and then have it dominate your psyche. Where's it going up? Is it going down? Ugh, that's horrible. Right, that's horrible. So there's something that this guy Bill Williams said who's one of the few people who I've watched a YouTube video and he said a very smart thing and I think this is the most important advice I could pass on that's helped me. There's no such thing as a bull market. There's no such thing as a bear market. The market is a perfect equilibrium. The equilibrium is there's an equal disagreement on value and a perfect agreement on price.

And that's always what's happening. And your goal isn't to figure out any special specific thing. It's just to be in tune with the market. And the way you know if you're in tune with the market is if you're rooting for something to go up or rooting for it to go down or freaking out when it's going down, you are not in tune with the market. You have-- Right, you're not in the flow of synchronicity as you might say. Exactly, so you can use your own internal states to gain-- Because then you're acting out of fear. Exactly. If you get really fixated. Exactly, and fear leads to bad decisions. Exhaustion leads to bad decisions.

When I was staying up late and making trades, that's when I was losing money. When you find this harmonious balance and this shit will bring it out because it's money. This shit will change your life. Like if you end up with a few million dollars, like your life has changed. So like, let's not lose sight of that. But it'll teach you about your own internal states about as fast as anything I've ever found, including like all of our favorite spiritual practices. This shit brought up all of my insecurities, all of my fears, all of my issues, all of my good qualities as well, so fucking quickly. Because this is the dominant paradigm.

This is where we live. So to answer your question, 500 is plenty. Most importantly, surround yourself with the community of educated people. This isn't an ad for it, but if people are listening in it's January, join the Cryptosick Discord server 'cause we're legitimately helping people, like for free.

It's not an ad, but it is sponsored by Noah, the web both of-- (laughing)

And Kelly, I would never charge you, please. And I'm comfortable everyone hearing that I have to charge you, but I would never charge Kelly. But all right, shit, this way.

Well, I'm excited for you. That's awesome. That's really cool. I like the idea of, you know, we're playing with, money is just such energy, and I feel like especially with this kind of currency, it's really just energy that you're kind of riding the waves of, so it's really interesting. And I agree that money brings stuff up. I know my friend is a couples therapist, and she said that the main things couples fight about are sex and money, but money is actually way harder to talk about than sex, which is already really hard for people to talk about. So it definitely could be a ground for working with your own mind as can anything, right?

Everything, right? It's a hyper-focused one because I think we don't like to think about it a lot, but if you recognize how much you're thinking about financial responsibilities or anxieties, at least me, like I just came out of, just so we're clear about this. I came out of the two worst years of my life financially.

Last time I saw you, you were in a bad way. You're a perennial cheerful guy, and you were like, definitely did a little cloud about you.

It was the worst. I've never, I mean, like, you know, there were a lot of extenuating circumstances, but just--

Yeah, a lot of that, a lot of shit happened at once.

Yeah, but like the truth is, is that I'm in many ways grateful I have that experience because I think like a lot of white middle class people, I lived in a bubble for a point of my life or a period of my life where I wasn't familiar with what it was felt like to not have money, like to not be able to pay for basic shit to rack up lots of credit card debt and not really have a way of paying it off. And that taught me like as much as anything 'cause when you, nothing will teach you about something. If you're hungry, you don't think you have an attachment to food, study for a few days.

Yeah.

See what's going on. So I'm grateful for it and the truth of this is, and for people listening, you like, this shit is real. This shit is happening. I am abundantly, supremely confident in a very balanced way that all of my friends, all of my family, it doesn't have to be in this week or the next week, are gonna be fine financially. Like we're gonna be good. And that to me, what that leads to, creative collectives, being able to support. Like we do, we're gonna do charity giveaways next month in that server. Like we're literally going to say like every month, we're gonna put in a pool, someone in the community gets it.

Every month we're gonna give away certain amount of this. Every month we're gonna put it to a charity we collectively vote on. Like those are the things we can do with money that really like make a change in the world for people. So one of us is having a hard time. You know, shit, we lost a job or some medical bill comes up. Yeah, it's great to do a GoFundMe, but if one of us can easily no problem send 50 grand to someone, like what's better than that? And not no strings attached either. Not like, you gotta give me back this. Like that's really important. Just like, hey, can we help each other out?

And I'm telling you Kelly, we're close to it. It's nuts, it's nuts.

That's really amazing. We have a little virtual commie in there.

It's happening. We'll talk further off there. So I think, I wanna end with the three questions again and then the open ended one, even though I think we did the before. I wanna hear again, see if--

So it's different, right?

I was gonna say, what's your favorite color?

Can I say rainbow, rainbow light?

You can say rainbow light. You can definitely say rainbow light. What is your favorite number?

69.

I shit you not, Kelly, that number has popped up. I'm a cancer too, so if you switch--

Oh yeah, so that's the image, yeah.

Popped up so much in the past, like two weeks in my life, it's insane.

I just got it at IKEA, that was an, I've had it popping up as well. So for now, 69.

Love it.

I mean, what other number makes you snicker, right? You just gotta love it.

Hey, the lunar stuff is going on. Cancer's the sign of the moon, we're good.

Yep.

Very good. What is your favorite animal?

That's such a hard one, it's hard. Probably my little chowini, if I had to pick one. Chihuahua, Dachshund, hilarious. But that's my favorite animal person. I really like eagles, but probably whale, I'm gonna go with whales.

Whale's good one.

The whale, there's some sort of, you just get the sense that they have an ancient wisdom that if only you could learn from the blue whale. Anything that's been around that long, you know?

I couldn't, I love whales, love dolphins, love whales, love them. Last question, what's a practical tip that's helped you in your life that you could share with other people?

Hmm. I'm trying to think, 'cause you probably have people saying the same kind of shit, but I would say, I'm sure you've had someone talk about gratitude and, I will say that last year, since we're talking about money, I will say that last year I made the sole intention of, I made a New Year's resolution, and it was just to make money, which has never been, I'm always someone who, like, it's such a dream-like thing to me that I've just, I've been broke most of my life, and it means like literally nothing to me, you know? At the same time, I'm shallow and I like to have nice things and eat good food, so I don't know how that works, but last year, I was like, you know what?

No, I really actually just need to decide to make money, and when I made that decision, and I started paying a lot more attention, like I even took out a loan to cover something that seemed like a better deal, and it wasn't even in the end of a better deal, I think I lost money, but just the fact that I took, that I made it a priority to literally do, like, tangible things, I could check off of a list, and just being really aware of all the little things going on with my finances and having the aspiration to, like, just make more money, and last year, I made more money than I've ever made, so not a lot, but a lot more than it has been, and it was just interesting to me how, if you really try to one-pointedly put your attention on something, so this year, I'm not doing money, I'm gonna do something else, but if you just one-pointedly put your attention on something, it's amazing how the energy follows, like, a magnet, and then, you know, synchronicity and auspicious coincidence things started happening for me, you know, in ways that I wasn't even seeking or cultivating or "deserving" that were just kind of coming my way, so I think, yeah, finding what you really want or need and putting your attention on it in a really disciplined, practical, literal way, and then watching how that can transform.

Maybe best answer ever, really? I'm not even joking, like, seriously, Kelly, I think this is one of the longer ones I've done recently, effortless, so easy to speak to you, always fun, thank you so much for doing that.

Likewise, always fun, my pleasure, I was excited when you wanted to have me on, well, I'm sure we'll do it again.

We will do it again. (gentle music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) ♪ Thank you for listening past the music ♪ ♪ It is a very nice thing to do ♪

Thank you for listening past the music. You were treated with another musical jam from me right there, you're welcome. Big thanks to Patrick Nemcke, getting it out every week, just 'cause he's a cool guy. If you haven't joined the Discord, do it now. I'm not doing this, like when do you ever hear me sell shit like hard, right? Maybe ratings and reviews when I thought that was really, that was gonna be the thing. Seriously though, I'm only selling this for your benefit. I know that's hard to believe in a world where everyone is trying to get one on you. But I think if you're listening to this podcast and you've listened to this point, you probably believe that I'm not totally fully shit.

So you may wanna join that. And when I say May, just do it, spite the bullet. It's an app, it's called Discord. You can join the crypto sync server. It's fun times in there, promise you that. Think of it as like a very real extension of the podcast that happens to be in the crypto sphere. Well, that's it. Another guest, right? I deliver it, I keep saying it's not just gonna be me every week and I keep delivering. Gonna see you next week. Love you.

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