Ep. 48 - Kelly MacLean [Tao of Comedy]

Well, I think magic is the fact that I was sitting here having this conversation with you, staring at the Mind Beyond Death book, and then you said, "This great book Mind Beyond Death." Welcome to episode 48 of Synchronicity. My guest this week is the lovely Kelly McLean from an equally lovely and amazing podcast, The Dow of Comedy, which is on MindPodNetwork.com. We'll talk about Kelly in just a second, you know the deal, you know how we go. Good news, alert, good news, alert. Book giveaway is back this week. As you heard in the beginning, and I think I've already actually given this book away, but it's so good.

I'm still reading it. So good. Really taking my time with it. I'm giving away a copy of Mind Beyond Death by Zogchen Punlop Rinpoche, who Kelly has actually met, really just one of the best books I think I've ever read on anything if you're interested in Death, Dying, Bardo States, Dreaming, Meditation, wow, what's the meaning of life? What's a Buddha? All of these things, you're going to love this book. So how do you get this book for those who don't know? You join the Synchronicity community. You go to syncpodcast.com, S-Y-N-C, podcast.com, and you sign up for the Synchronicity community. There's a little pop-up, oh, no, a pop-up.

It's okay. It's going to be okay. You sign up for the, there's a pop-up, there's something on the side. It's basically you join my little email community here. I send an email once a week about the episode, about what's going on, sometimes some cool stuff like some Alan Watts talks, you know, stuff like that. And then you're entered into the book giveaway contest, which I think I'm going to make a monthly thing. I spoke about before how it was costing me a pretty penny to send them out every week. So I think it's going to be a monthly thing, but still, pretty good deal. Okay. Let's talk about some interesting things that are going on.

First one, Pokemon Go. Now, my cohort at MinePod Network, Zach Leary, I don't know which episode it's in, it was from a few back, maybe like five or six back. He was railing against Pokemon Go, and he was saying no to the Pokemon Go, it's making us people looking at our phones when we're supposed to be out in the world, interacting and doing things. I'm all for that. I love interacting with people out in the world sometimes, but I, man, am I addicted to Pokemon Go? I'm spending money on this thing, and I am not somebody who spends money on mobile gaming, but I love it. I got to catch them all. I was at the farmer's market on Sunday, and basically battling a little child, no more than seven or eight years old at the farmer's market, because I was trying to train with Pokemon.

I got a pretty good snow relax, need some more candy. Really great game. I think this is a precursor to some cool augmented reality and VR stuff that's going to be coming. I'm no expert in that stuff, but I do think it's cool, and I think I've seen and met granted mostly children, but I've met people out in the world playing Pokemon, and everyone seems genuinely pleasant and happy. Okay, so I like Pokemon Go, there you go, Zach Leary, what you're going to do about it? Tell me why I'm wrong. Another thing that I'm re-into, one of my favorite shows. It's on Netflix. You can watch it from the beginning, Star Trek, the next generation.

Some people may tell you the original Star Trek is better. There's some deep space nine fans, Voyager, if you're a weirdo, but to me, my money is on Star Trek, the next generation. No one better than John Luke Picard, no one better than Data, Worf, Geordi, you name it. There's so many awesome people on Star Trek, the next generation. Just two seasons, a little rough, especially when they replace Gates McFadden, the wonderful Beverly Crusher with Pulaski, she's not so great, and who likes Pulaski? If you're a Pulaski fan, come on, that's crazy. But anyway, I love Star Trek, the next generation. You may think it's nerdy, you may think it's not that cool, you may think it's kind of boring and dated, it's not, it's awesome, it still holds up.

One of the best shows, so many philosophical ideas, such a, it's not a utopia because there's, you know, you got the Borg, you got all this crazy shit going on, but the Federation is a cool thing, and it stands for unity among people and races, so I'm not going to go on off a whole tangent, but check it out, it's on Netflix, you might like it. Alright, last thing, and this, the smallest subsection of people relate to this, what I'm about to say, but the Miami Dolphins, my favorite sports team, sports to me, I consider Miami Dolphins, my biggest spiritual practice is being a Miami Dolphins fan, it is a tortured existence, we're owing to, lost tough games, you notice how I say we too, I consider myself part of the team, because I am delusional, but we're owing to, we lost the Seattle on the road, tough game at the beginning, we then lost to the Patriots on the road, lots of home cooking for them, don't get it twisted, we heard their quarterback, Jimmy Garoppolo, sorry, get well soon, but this week, we're playing the Cleveland Browns, I am guaranteeing, I am Miami Dolphins victory, guaranteed, I'm guaranteed, I'm granted we're playing the third ten quarterback, and their best receiver, rookie receiver just got hurt, Corey Coleman, but we're going to want City on them, so that has nothing to do with this podcast, but I realized I started this last year, kind of, I think it was like late October, by then the Dolphins were totally out of it, which is not uncommon, it's only be a few weeks in the season, be out of it, so like I didn't want to talk about it, but now like hope brings eternal, right? Springs eternal, rings eternal, springs eternal, whatever, Miami Dolphins, I love them, so without further ado, let's get to Kelly, not to the episode, to Kelly, Kelly is fucking awesome, a good friend of the podcast, and mine pod network, Duncan Trussell called me up one day, Duncan doesn't always call me, we'll get texts, exchange texts once in a while, but rarely do we call each other, but he called me, he said, hey, I just met this person, she's really awesome, she's got a podcast called the Dow of Comedy where she's interviewing comedians about really like deep spiritual topics, her parents were students of Chilgung, Trungpa, I think you should talk to her, so we set up a call, Kelly and I, and it was an awesome conversation, it was like immediately like yeah, let me check out your episode, I'll tell you what's up, listen to the first episode of the podcast, which was Barry Katz, a legendary comedy agent, and it was amazing, just like immediately hooked, I got it, it's great, I was like, please join mine pod network, whatever that means, I would like to have you be a part of it.

And so she was, and Emil, just super appreciative, really nice person, and I've gotten to know her through her podcast, and especially in this conversation, and she's just incredibly, she's wise and pleasant and real, so she's, one of the things we talk about in this podcast is the unifying factor for a lot of the people on mine pod network, because there's a diverse group of people, we're not all talking about the same stuff, or even from the same perspectives, but the unifying factor is that I think we all really, really give a shit about each other, and the world, and we care, that's the one quality, we really care, and I'd like to think that everyone involved is just an excellent person, and they are, so this episode is really great, it's a little longer than usual, so you know it's good, who didn't even clip it, Kelly does this awesome thing at the end of our podcast, where she asks these people like really point-playing questions like, "What is God?

What happens after we die? What's love? What's magic?" Which are really like, you know, not the easiest questions to answer, so I flip it on her towards the end of this one, and she gives amazing answers, you know, we talk about meditation, how we don't always do it, there's a point in here, I forget exactly where it happens, but I was so excited with the conversation, I'd lose my train of thought while talking, so you will hear me babble on, I don't think I come to a coherent point, it's about something about being present and the here and now, but I lost my train of thought, because I was so excited about the conversation, so it's a testament to Kelly, and just how fun this was, so that's my little spiel on this episode, thank you to everyone who has rated, and reviewed synchronicity on your favorite podcast platforms, it means so much to me, I love reading them, it really makes me happy, and thank you to everyone who's donated, Patrick, also hero of the podcast, Patrick as I call him, thank you buddy, for doing what you do every month, that's really fucking cool, so yes, now, without further ado, here is Kelly McLean.

Hi Kelly, what's going on, I'm going to turn my video off, nice to meet you, I just spoke to you, I'll turn mine on for a second, okay, yeah, let's do that, just for Bailey, yeah, oh, hey, how you doing, good how are you, good morning, I'm glad we're not actually doing a video podcast because I just woke up, yeah, I just spoke to your mom, Carrie, who I found out you are named after her twin sister Kelly, so that's, I am, no, you talk about synchronicity, my mom and I are like so intertwined, it's very difficult for us to extricate ourselves from each other, and so this is true of my PayPal account, somehow comes up as Carrie McLean sometimes, oh that's, that's fine, which is a good way for my mom to sneak me money, yeah, why did you, because you PayPal'd yourself, that's awesome, but then also with our Skype, we've been trying for years and I don't know why, but I, yeah, must be in like the setting somewhere, because I know what's going on, it's when someone calls the audio, it's going to their phone and it's just like, yeah, it must be because I think I had used Skype on her phone a number of times, first Skype wasn't working, so she would use my account and I don't know, it's really funny, she's extremely lovely though, oh sweet, yeah, should we turn off our video, yeah let's turn off the video for the bandwidth, okay, cool, all right, awesome, thank you for coming on by the way, of course it's my, my great pleasure and also speaking of synchronicity, we've been trying to make it happen and somehow it all came together this week, I know, a big eclipse and I think it's a very, I don't know if you're into astrology but it's a very auspicious time astrologically, okay, so here's the deal with astrology and we'll just consider this started, I am very much into it, I've gotten actually Vedic astrological readings, a couple of them a few years ago and I love it, my dad is super duper into astrology, yeah, no, he does like natal charts, like when my son was born, who we may hear crying because he's down for a nap and those are pretty shaky, he did a natal chart for him, like he's, he's really like into it and I would say like he's into it to a level that's past like kind of like the pop astrology stuff and yeah, my mom is actually, she's not like a huge astrology person but she is into Tibetan astrology, oh cool, I've never got, I've never learned much about that but my mom is also starting to learn about it and it's kind of fascinating, so tell me what's going on this week with astrology, okay, well there were two eclipses that happened, one at the beginning of September and one that happened on Friday, and they're in Virgo Pisces and so they say that eclipses are moments in time where you might look back and go, oh that was a turning point, things weren't quite the same after that or especially if you're very connected to it, you might say, oh that like my whole life looks different six months later after that moment, so that's going on, but then also the 26th I believe a week from today or a little less is the luckiest day of the year, so Jupiter, the planet of luck, the most panetic planet, comes into conjunction, meaning it's in the same spot in the sky from our perspective as the sun, oh wow, well this is, I love this stuff, so I'm a cancer is my sign and I have always, what are you? I'm a Pisces, I'm a fellow water baby, my dad is a Pisces, yeah I, so yeah we love all that, all that sort of, definitely gravitate towards it, and I always noticed this weird thing, I'm not like totally in touch with the lunar cycles or astrology, but whenever there's a full moon, like I normally, my typical behavior, if I didn't have a child and a job that I have to wake up for, I would stay up all night, that's like my regular behavior, but I've been going to sleep earlier because I have to do this stuff, but whenever there's a full moon or anything weird going on with the moon, I can't go to sleep and I'm always like, that's so weird and then I'll inevitably check to see if it's a full moon and it always is, I'll be up to like three, four in the morning, so like I put a ton of stock into the positioning of the planets and the stars and how this stuff, how did you, how did you get into astrology? Well first of all, I totally agree and the cancers are the most sensitive to the moon because that's your ruling, you're ruled by the moon. And actually, and maybe your wife could tell us if this is true or not, but cancers, they tend to be a little moody. Yeah, yeah, she would definitely agree with that, that would be the nicest way of saying it. And they say that as the moon changes signs every two and a half days, so changes the mood of a cancer. So my mom is married to a cancer, and if he is in like a negative space, being a grump, she will say, I'm just avoiding Hector until the moon leaves Scorpio. Smart, I gotta tell my wife, she'll be thrilled that she has a tip to deal with my horrible moodiness. Yeah, she has a calendar and then she'll start to notice and he's always a dick when it's an Aries. Yeah, but I got into astrology through my mother and her mother was kind of into the occult back in the day. She was an alchemist. Cool. And she taught that and to row cards and some other, actually, she did like some psychic training with my mother where she would, as kids, she would show her kids like different piles of cards and then the kids would have to guess which one I love it. Yeah, and my mom was really the one who was really good at it, and she was a little bit trained in that. And you know what, she actually does have a lot of like weird psychic moments. No surprise that I actually called her by accident. Yeah, totally. She was calling you. She got me into it as a kid, but especially when I was about 12, going through puberty, it became a way to sort of look at people and look at my own mind and say, okay, who am I? Who are they? And that's really what I see astrology as like a language. One perspective of looking at one way to talk about your mind or somebody else's mind or your connection with somebody. No, that's a huge, that's like a really awesome way of putting it to because I think when people think about astrology, I think it's especially devalued in today's culture because it's, you know, this stuff you get in the paper or in the magazines, you know, the pop astrology, people like to think, well, okay, well, this is going on or I'm a cancer, I'm like this. That's how it is. This is what it is. It's like, well, how could that possibly be? How do they know everything rather than it's a lens that you can look through to see a certain coloring or shading of what's going on within your own self and then also in, you know, the external world? I think that's huge that you put it like that too because I think that gets lost a lot. Well, I like how you put it a lens because yeah, it's not, it's not a fact or fiction, you know, it's just one language. So my best friend, Genevieve, got really into astrology at the same time and to this day, you know, when someone, when a guy comes into her life or someone who comes into a friend comes along or a friend's baby is born, we immediately look at the chart and we talk about them and it's become this way for us to, you know, express thoughts about that person and perceptions about them and, you know, gossip. Of course, that's, of course, that's what it, that gossip is a necessary part of life. I am with it. I was looking today, I, I typically stay out of the pop culture gossip news, but I did see that Jennifer Aniston is getting a divorce and also Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, jeez. But Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt are getting a divorce like every month. That's what I saw.

I saw it in the league because I've seen it so many times and also Jennifer Aniston gossip, like if all the gossip about her that you read on the cover of magazines was true, like Jennifer Aniston would have like four thousand eight hundred years. That is true. It's always pregnant. I look, every time I go to the supermarket, I look at the tabloids and I swear, I've never seen anyone more pregnant than her ever. And she never looks at me. No, look at this bump. It's like, no, she looks really thin and cheap. She had half a taco and no, she's pregnant. So what do you think it is about Jennifer Aniston that like she endured as like this person in the tabloids and also just like, clearly, that's because people still care. Whereas if you're not seeing Courtney Cox, or really anyone. And she actually had weird stuff go down with her. I mean, the thing is just like, I tweeted today. I really, like I said, it's rare that I actually delve into the pop culture in this world. I used to be, I used to love it. I used to eat that stuff up. I used to love it. I blogged about the real housewives like, Oh, trust me, I've been there. I love that. I want to hear your mindful blog. Yeah. Yeah. See, that's the thing like, I think I realized early on like that the reason I loved the housewives show so much is that it was like kind of like a judging zone that was condoned. So you can look at these people are clearly going through various problems like in life. It's not like they have their shit together. That's not what the show is about. Like, they're always fighting. It's some horrible thing. And you can be like, Oh, look at them. Oh, can you believe what Vicki did? Can you believe what Tamara did this week? And you know, I realized that like, that's probably not the healthiest way to spend my time. If that's what I'm getting out of it. You know, if it's if I'm helping in some way, or I think I can add something valuable to this, which is why I try to stay away from pop culture stuff, but I never really get sucked back then because I don't think I'm going to be in the cave in the Himalayas somewhere. I think the way into this stuff, which we'll get to with your podcast and this and kind of my like, I think into the world is the way to go. So I do like to stay aware of what's going on, same thing with politics, but back to Jennifer Aniston thing. I mean, I tweeted today that she seems really nice.

That's all that's why only observation of Jennifer Aniston. I don't know her. I've never met her. She seems incredibly pleasant when I've seen her interviewed or talking. And like, she's been like, totally taken a task in the tabloid. So I don't really know anything about it. But I hope she's doing well because she seems very nice. That's sweet. Yeah, I agree. You always see her doing, you know, like fundraisers for kids with cancer and things like that. And then, you know, she just seems to be right out there being a good person and people get help with kind of representation. I know. It's unfortunate. Okay. So I want to segue into what you're doing with your podcast, the Dow of Comedy, which a little history for people who are listening, Duncan called me one day and Duncan doesn't call me all the time. And he was like, Hey, I met this girl. She's really awesome. She's got this podcast. It's called the Dow of Comedy. Her parents, the study with Choke I'm Trump. I'm like, Oh, shit, this sounds really cool. So we I was like, okay, yeah, definitely link us up. And we spoke and we had a great conversation. And we were like, totally on the same page about all this stuff. And I was like, okay, definitely want you to come on to MindPod Network, this group of people. We're kind of going through this transition period where there's all these like Dharma teachers.

But now we're going a little bit younger and trying to go into different explorations of stuff more in the world. And since then it's just been awesome. It's really, really been awesome listening to your podcast and just nodding my head along with all the people what it is for people who don't know. And I it's on MindPod Network. I'm good. They're all the links will be there to listen to it. Kelly, basically you interview comedians, not always. There's some outliers, but comedians who really are bringing something special to comedy. And I think we're in a comedy renaissance. I've spoken about this before. I've had this podcast. It's nuts. It's totally nuts. And I love it so much. I've had four or five comedians on this podcast just because I think comedy and spirituality or whatever you want to call it are inextricably linked together. I think that's a huge part of it. So what you're doing is like right there in like the intersection of two things I'm extremely passionate about and you're doing it in a way that isn't like it's not from this elevated stance of, well, let's intellectually look at how these things go together. It's a playfulness about it.

And your skills and interview aren't talking to these people. It's just it's awesome. So how did tell me about the Dow of Comedy? Well, first of all, thank you. That's all very sweet. And sometimes as a podcaster, you know, you don't know how much I feel like our people just automatically downloading that. Like who's actually listening? It means a lot. Thank you. And it's been so great to be on MindPod Network. I just think it's brilliant to have a mindfulness podcast network that isn't so serious. Like you're saying, you know, it could be. But so it came about the idea came about in Montreal at the Just for Last Comedy Festival, which is the biggest comedy festival in the world. It's quite speaking of Renaissance. It's a Renaissance fare for comedy right in the magical city of Montreal. And so I was there for the first time, not this summer, but the year before.

And I really started, I think, with a chat I had with Patton Oswalt really briefly on the red carpet I interviewed him for something I was writing. And then he came and sat next to me at the bar, which was like, you know, one of the bigger honors that had ever happened to me. And I was like, you know, I played cool. And he ended up chatting a little bit. And the things he said in the little interview, which I do have on as a mini podcast on iTunes. But I also, I don't have the conversation that followed, which was really amazing. And it's just the way that Patton Oswalt looks at the world. I think is really with heightened intelligence and scrutiny and so much heart. The reason he has looked so deeply into what he thinks the nature of the world is and society and the way that we function is because he really cares. And he has, he uses the skillful means. And when we could talk about like Prajna and Upaya skillful means and, you know, clear seeing insight, he has this insight.

And then his skillful means of delivering that insight is through comedy, which I think is really fascinating and unique. And I think all comedians do this to varying levels, because it's funny, it has to have some ring of truth to it. There has to be some recognition of one's own experience or mind to go, Oh, yeah, I mean, you literally get a recognition laugh. You'll be like, you know, I always with one of my shoelace is starting to fry and someone will be like, free shoelace, you know, it doesn't even have to be funny. And as a comedian, sometimes you get those surprise laughs. Aren't those interesting? I noticed those happen quite a bit when psychedelics are in play, when you're just laughing at, you don't even know what sometimes someone will say something. And it wasn't particularly funny, especially if you think about it, you realize it really wasn't funny at all. But the way it was delivered or what happened, something happened there that was hilarious. I know it's actually totally, I mean, it all come up with dream, dream jokes, like probably almost every night, I'll like half wake up and I'll be like, I gotta write this shit down. It's so funny. And there have been a couple of times like Paul McCartney moment, I think he the song yesterday came to him in a dream. I have had a couple of moments like that where a truly good joke came out of that. But like 99.9% of the time I wake up and I'm like, what the positive? Like Himalayan camel toe? Like what does that mean? I don't get it. Or like the other morning I was like just laughing and laughing in the dream state saying love in the time of Sephora to myself. I have no idea what that's about, but it's not going to be acting. So yeah, it's very interesting how humor bends too. It's like it's things can be so funny to you in the dream state or the drug or alcohol state, which is why there's often a two drink minimum at a comedy club that when you know in another context may not be humorous at all. But anyway, so I had this great conversation with Patton Oswalt and I also had a great conversation with Barry Katz, who I felt really saw to my soul. And he was the first guest. And he is basically like one of the greatest comedy moguls of our time. He created Last Comic Standing and he's managed or represented or produced basically everyone from, you know, John Stewart to Dave Chappelle and literally everyone.

So he and I had this great talk and set up a meeting in LA a couple months later. And of all the ideas I pitched him, this was the one that he really did a double take to. And it's like you need to do that. And then three days later, my brother died very suddenly in a car accident. So I had decided to do this. And then that whole thing got put on pause. But as I reentered my life, I found myself really drawn to this search of like, you know, became it morphed into this hungry search for answers or meaning or, you know, even just really heart-to-heart connections at a time where I was so cracked open that, you know, people don't really want to talk about death and that sort of thing. So I think subconsciously, I was craving, you know, a space to really process and explore. And the people I wanted to do that with were comedians. So that was not my original intention quite so much. But it became, you know, it was a little more cerebral of an idea when I came up with that and then it became a heart-level thing. So about, I don't know, six months after he died, I started recording the bow of comedy podcast. And Barry Katz was my first guest. And then it's been a really, it's actually really become a grief project where, you know, I get to feel like I'm physically doing something to relate with the passing of my brother and honor him. And, you know, now it's also like time has passed. It's definitely, it's more than only a grief project, but that's definitely a big part of it. And it's been really fun because who better to talk to about the biggest heaviest things than comedians who always end up putting a twist of, you know, a little Cheshire cat smile on it? Yeah, I mean, I thank you for that amazing kind of nutshell what the podcast is.

And it's so much, it's so much is in the podcast too. And everything you're describing from being a project to actually being a grief project, it just shines through. And I think what you've encountered is something that I've been encountering with podcasting. You bring who you are into that. And if you're open-hearted, whether because there's some tragic event happened, or that's naturally what you gravitate towards, or you've had experiences, it's just something that kind of infuses the conversations for people who, you know, there's a lot of different types of podcasts out there, obviously, like, you know, you listen to a reply all there are more whimsically investigating like mysteries and things that are going on. You know, but one of the things that I think I always try to figure out like, what is my iPod network? Who are these group of people? Why is this thing exists? And the common trait I know, the one thing I see in everyone who's a part of it is they're just genuinely awesome, open-hearted and kind people. No one is a part of it who's not like that. They all want are doing this, whether it's for a personal reason, whether it's a, you know, people, it's very, I really admire that you've been able to also walk the path of grief so publicly in a way that it's clearly like we I've heard the interview with Barry, which is one of the best podcasts I've ever heard. I think I texted you like right after I'm like, holy shit, this is incredible because I didn't really know the backstory of what happened with your brother and or anything and I was just like blown away, not only at your openness, but also that the conversation that was emerging from it, what you were getting out of Barry and in subsequent guests as well, like you're really exploring deep concepts and that's before you even get to the questions at the end of your podcast, which are like, you know, very heavy stuff. And I also love, like you said, you're doing this with comedians who inevitably have a humorous or funny take on something, but they also, like you said that Prajna wisdom, they have this ability to really see clearly at times and put that clarity on themselves out to the world in varying degrees. And I just I think that's one of the things that kind of irks me about spirituality at various times. And there's Chugham Trungpa, who we got to talk about, but he he was very acutely interested in pointing out what, you know, spiritual materialism, what he referred to and exoticizing something and, you know, getting off onto, you know, essentially making it an ego trip, spirituality. Yeah, which we see so prevalently, you know, every Whole Foods and every yoga studio and, you know, all the places that are popping up here in LA, like there's one called unplugged, which is you go, you pay $33, you sit for 30 minutes and you leave, it's like the triple lamb spirituality. It's like, okay, got it, now I'm gonna go. That's that's a crazy business plan. Well, I know someone listen to this, I knew someone who was working with a teacher who would record energy CDs and charge like thousands of dollars for these. So she would record silence onto a CD, charge them a thousand dollars and send them to that person and saying, here's healing energy on the CD, listening to the CD of nothing. And like this woman was making like hundreds of thousands of dollars to eat it. Oh my god, that's like an actual survival of the fittest, like, you need that. What? Oh my god, that is like snake oil and a half. Oh, I've never, I was like, you're joking, you're fucking with me. And this, like, I know this person, I trusted this person, she wasn't making it up. She was like her assistant, her web helper. It was nuts. But what I was saying is like, this, this, what happens when you get very spiritually materialistic, and I don't want to say this as though I've never engaged in this. Like if anyone who's on a spiritual path, the tendency is to go there at some times. Oh my god, if this, whatever it is. But what happens is people can get really rigid, dogmatic and inflexible when they identify with something rather than what I don't want to say the correct approach, but a lightness about you, a levity really allows you to be more receptive and wise and compassionate in all situations rather than saying, this is the way it is, this is what's happened. That's what's going on. So, right. Well, when you meet the great masters of any tradition, really, and I would gather that probably Jesus Christ was this way as well, there was like a tremendous joy and like a radiating of love for all beings, you know what I mean? And there's generally a big smile that accompanies it rather than a solemn all kind of thing. But it's people trying to get there that tend to be the really uptight about how to get there, you know?

It's interesting. And so like to kind of tie this together, I've been reading this book at night on my iPhone called Beyond Death, Mind Beyond Death. It's by this guy. Oh, that's really good. Oh, you know what? I can't believe you're saying that. I'm looking at it right now. My boyfriend must have it. That's crazy. Yeah, synchronicity. There you go. There you go. No, I've been sitting here looking at it during our conversation sort of in the back of my mind going, oh, yeah, I was supposed to read that or something. It's incredible. I'm about halfway through and it is hands down. The only other book I would put up with put it up there with in terms of being like a comprehensive like manual and explication of what is going on in this state and barto states in general. I put it up there with The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by So Good Women, which is just like a tone, like amazing book. But yeah, Mind Beyond Death. So this book is crazy. It's basically the intersection of so many things that I'm fascinated with, which is like dreams, dying, not in a morbid sense, but like, you know, I'm interested in traditions and, you know, groups of people who have studied this stuff for thousands of years. Like, what do they say? Like, when it's Tibetan Buddhist, who doesn't seem like he has any reason to lie or pull a ruse on someone, it's like, hey, this is what happens after you die. Here's the way it goes. This is why we train in this. I'm like, okay, I'm going to read that that interests me. There's yeah. Who's it by? I'm going to just pull it off the shelf in a second and read us a random passage. You could totally do it. I swear, it's by Zokchan Poenlop Rinpoche. Poenlop Rinpoche. Yeah, he's amazing. I've gotten to meet him and he's really amazing. Oh, it's really, it is one of the most in-depth and meaty Tibetan Vajrayana, just everything. He covers everything in it, but it's so down to earth. Like, he talks about consciousness. You know, he uses analogies with like hard disks and data, but it's not like, it's not as neuro-science-y and kind of like steeped in and sciences like, say, Minger Rinpoche's book, The Joy of Living, but it's so fucking good. But it's something that like, I purposely, I usually tear through books. This one, I'm not. Like, I read a little bit before going to sleep every night, sometimes during the day, and there's just so much in it. But why I bring it up is there's this aspect that I'm reading right now where he talks about ordinary mind, which is essentially, you know, this, everything, right? It's the universal consciousness. And he says, the problem people make is they think they have to go somewhere else for it. So if you're in the West, you need to go to India. If you're in these, like, listen, look at Milarepa. He studied into bed his hometown. He didn't go to the West and he became enlightened.

And the reason is, is it's always with us. It's right here, even when we're angry conceptually, we can say, oh, yeah, I know that anger is pure and that's also, you know, dharma. That's direct wisdom of what's going on. But when we actually get angry, and he said this, and it just clicked with me, is you look for it somewhere else. You don't want to believe that inside of the anger is the pure essence of awareness. And like, this is it. That's where like the realization and everything is sacred. And it's just that is what I'm trying to get at with why I think comedians and your podcast is is when you would investigate those things, I think you see that the antidote to kind of getting all freaked out about death or freaked out about emotions or difficulties in life is found in the present moment. And trying to make it about something else doesn't actually work. And that's where people get tripped up. Myself included, and I think everyone included. So I think, and like, you know, look at someone like Chogram Trunko, who I think your parents studied with, right? Yeah, absolutely. He was one of the funniest people I've ever seen teach. Like, really funny. Oh, truly funny. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, once was giving a transmission, like a very important transmission that everyone was kind of waiting to see like what he would say and what he would do. And he just said, fuck you. You know, and totally stopped people's minds. I had quite a great sense of humor. I was in he was a trickster and all of it. I mean, it's it's it's incredible how he was, but I want to also go back to the dying thing, not not to morbidly go on it because you spoke about there's few people who I've known friends who have had parents died. I've had my grandparents die, but I haven't been hit in the face with death, right? I haven't had someone extremely close to me. You were definitely hit in the face with it because you had a sibling die in a tragic and quick way. And I'd like you describe something and you said something that I think is really poignant. You said, you know, while my heart was broken and open, that's when I wanted to process this stuff. And there's like a famous saying, I think it's by a rabbi or something who says, you know, the reason our hearts break is so they can crack open and let the layman.

And that's good. Yeah, it's it's one of my favorite quotes. Can you talk a little bit about what that experience is like? Because I don't know a lot of people who can openly and transparently talk about this as well as I've heard you speak about it. Well, yeah, I mean, it's really interesting and I you've you said sorry to be morbid. And I say the same thing almost on like half my podcast. I'm sorry to be morbid. But you know what, like morbidity should not be death. It shouldn't even be morbid. You know what I mean? It shouldn't be looked at as a bad thing. And I actually we got hit with another death a few weeks ago in our family. My dear uncle, my auntie Kelly, who I'm named after her husband, wonderful man named Mark Hall, died. I'm sorry to go. Pretty suddenly from from leukemia. Like literally I was doing mescal shots with him like six weeks later, he was dead. And he I actually performed a Sukavati ceremony, which is the Buddhist death rights on the beach. And we talked about how you how death is, you know, shouldn't be related to as something solemn necessarily, but that it's the it's really the the natural other side of the coin of birth and we'll celebrate birth and make it the sacred ceremonial thing. And then when death happens, it's just you know, you know, and I think that we haven't been taught in our culture how to relate to that. And there was there there is joy in that actually. And what's his name? There was some guy in the in the it's actually court, I think it was in the Arquette family. Um, a like, maybe a Lexa Arquette or something like that. This was one of the first transgender actors.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I'm getting her first name correctly, but David Arquette's brother who changed to sister when she passed away, surrounded by her siblings, instructed everybody to cheer at the moment of death. When I pass into the next realm, every I want everyone to cheer for me. And they did that. And for some reason that just I read that and I just started crying because it is like three, two, one blast off to another great adventure presumably. And we just get really frozen and don't know how to talk about it. But I think there actually is a lot of wisdom that in life we can gain from being open to death as you know, just as natural and beautiful a part of things as being born or getting married, you know.

Right. Right. It's so true. I mean, that's we have a lot of fear in death because it's the biggest question mark for everyone in life. Like we know it's going to happen. No one has has beaten that to date. So we know it's going to happen, but we don't know exactly what's going to happen. But we can prepare for it. And I think one of the things that the big one of the biggest services that I've noticed in in modern culture and just where we are is we don't like you said, we say we'll not to be morbid. It doesn't have to be morbid number one. But if we don't talk about dying death, what happens, why does it happen and how it relates to life? Like you said, the other side of the coin, then we're woefully unprepared for when it actually happens. And when you read and hear people talk about what death is, it's an important thing. It's not like this little thing.

It is something that like has some value towards what happens afterwards, if you believe in that. So I mean, yeah, it's I wish we would talk about it more as a culture and society in ways that didn't specifically freak people out. Like it's okay to get freaked out. It's a it is a scary thing. No one really knows how they're going to deal with it. Even when reading about like some of the dissolutions that happen in, you know, the way that Tibetan Buddhists view it, it can be a scary thing. But it doesn't have to be if you talk. Right. Well, there's also this quality of liberation. So death is to life as divorce is to marriage. I mean, no matter how good it was, like, there's always a liberation when you get freed from those karmic bonds.

But they're so hard to get out of, right? And there's actually a there's a website called, I think it's called when you die dot com, have to look it up. Let's see. When you w w w dot when you died dot org, when why are you die dot org? And the whole premise is reclaiming death. Nice. And basically saying this is something that needs to be, we need a way to talk about this. We need to celebrate it. We need to embrace it. And we need to take it back from, you know, the cold, our culture, which says, you know, look the other way, cover your ears when this kind of glaze over when the subject comes up, change the subject. Right. Because actually, it's a big, beautiful ceremony that we need to know how to, it's like a graduation, you know, we need how to, how to incorporate that. And by doing that, it also helps with all the little deaths that we have in our life every day, you know, like I'm tipping on a kombucha right now.

This is my last step. It's a little deck. I'm a little sad. Right. Right. You know, and so preparing for the big one helps us live so much better, I think. Well, it's, I think it's true, and I just as an aside, like Ramdas for a while wanted to do these death stores in malls. And it would basically be like a store where you, you know, it's not really a funeral home, but like, you go in, you learn about death and you prepare for death. And he wanted his casket to say, be dead now. That's really good, Ramdas. I gotta give it to you. That's great. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's just shows you that it, like you said, there is a playfulness for all of the people who seem to have experienced some, some real wisdom in their life. And that is in a way, you know, it's, it's important to remember that and not get so kind of tripped up about what's happening.

Yeah. And I mean, at the same time, I'm not saying that it's like, uh, that it's just, that's just a good thing. Like it's been excruciating. I, you know, I think I have PTSD from it to some extent, frankly, it's not just this beautiful, liberated, you know, silver lining situation at all. No, it's everything, right? You know, it's a little trauma. Yeah. Um, yeah, it is. It's, it's the black and the white at the same time. Um, but I do feel a little reborn going through this because, I mean, I was yesterday, I was traveling with my sister and like the two of us, like the combination is just not good. It was a miracle that we made our flight. We both had so many clothes. We had so much stuff that like we both literally put on three layers of clothing so that her bag was too heavy. So we're there like flying to LA. She's wearing a dress and a skirt and boots and, you know, two sweaters and it was a little bit of a shit show. And I was just getting annoyed by the whole thing. Yeah, no, it goes. And, um, and I just stopped and I said, you know what, this could be the last time I ever traveled with my sister. And if that was the case, I would always look back and say, remember when she was wearing three sweaters and a hat and, you know, the laughing stock of the plane and I would think back on that was so much love. And all I can think right now is like really fucking hot and all these clothes. See, I like to be earlier than this. And it really stopped and popped it for me. So that's been a blessing in all of this. Well, it's, it's weird.

It's like it's death and dying as a mindfulness practice. And in and of itself, it sucks you in. There's these moments we have in life. I mean, I think they're, they're all around us, but there's these moments where we tap into it. And something like someone dying or a birth or a major life event can just kind of crystallize and suck you back into the moment where you realize that, that, that aspect of yourself that's like, this could be the last time, you know, what's going on. Now, if you're anything like me, even when you realize that in like, you know, when you're rushing or in your line or you're driving, you realize it. And then I'm still pissed off. And I'm still.

God damn it. So, but the awareness is the first step. I mean, I, you know, one of the things that I think is interesting in this book too is he's talking about like, how do you prepare for death? Like, what do you do? How do you get ready for it? And he's like, listen, this is what you do. It's pretty easy. You do Shunyatta. You do calm abiding meditations. You do vipassana. You do insight meditations. And I'm like, shit, this is like the one thing that I don't do. Like, I've improved my life in countless ways over the past decade in so many ways. But, and I've note about meditation the entire time I've probably meditated in the past year, maybe 40 times, like tops. And that's only because I'm like, shamed into doing it because some teacher I work with Sharon Salzburg has a 28 day meditation course in February where I was a blogger. So, I basically have to do it. So, like, those are 28 of the 40 days. And I recognize, like, we have this whole book coming out, which I know you're a part of. It's practically mindful as the tentative name. And it's, and it's ways to stay aware without meditating. And, you know, the little trick to the book, and I'll give it away for the listeners of this, is after that, we have a book that is how to meditate because it isn't something we want to gloss over. And it's something that is important. I don't want to take that part away from mindfulness and being aware of the meditation, those quiet moments, whether they're comfortable or not, they're so important to kind of stabilize your consciousness and kind of actually get an accurate picture of what's going on. So, I heard, I forget which episode it was, but we were talking about meditation. I know you did some, some silent retreats, but you were also saying you were not the best meditator at time. So, you talk a little bit about that. Yeah, well, I mean, meditation is a lot of my life has been based around meditation. My parents started meditating with us as kids when I was probably, like, two years old. So, I was always the one that we would start sitting and I would invariably lose it laughing, like, talk about like just truth hitting you, just like funniest. I, you know, if I could ever write a joke that makes anyone laugh to their soul the way that I would, the minute the gong went off, I just, I don't know, I just like, the whole thing was hilarious. I got it. I don't think I was wrong. And I said, I would always get kicked out of the meditation room, like pretty much, okay, 30 seconds have gone by. So, Kelly's laughing. Okay, you can leave now.

And I would feel so left out, which is the youngest you hate to feel left out. And I remember being five years old one time and being so hurt, because I already, I think I did have this real affinity for the calm energy that happened and the peace that I could palpably feel in my family when we sat together. Because things were not always, you know, very smooth and peaceful. My dad, you know, it was a blended family and different ages, boys, girls. And so that was always this really sacred time to me and I could feel something about it, you know, I didn't get it conceptually, but I loved that feeling. So to be kicked out of there one time, I just remember feeling completely kicked in the gut and devastated. And I went out and we had another Buddha in our house, probably like five, but there was one on the mantle and I went and I sat by myself and I didn't move for the entire duration of the time that they practiced, which was probably about five minutes, but it's all like an eternity. And I remember that being my first experience of it, I really was meditating, you know, as good as any good meditation I could do now, I was there, you know, in some ways, probably better when you're a kid, because you have less habitual patterns than I was really with the breath. And I completely tuned into that space, you know, that really like it's, I think, tuning into your own heart and the goodness of your own, you know, mind. And I really meditated with my whole heart and my family came out and they were all shocked that I was there with perfect posture, playing style as this little five year old. So then I think I've had a play, love, hate relationship with meditation ever since. Certainly more love than hate isn't even the right word. I know what you mean. I was a super hyperactive kid, like definitely teachers wanted, some teachers wanted to put me on medication for it. And it was fucking hard. Is it still that long?

I found it like physically painful to try and sit still that long. But I also always loved the feeling that came from it. So there's always been this play. And I've done many, many practice programs and solitary retreats. And I've had phases where I have a pretty strong daily routine of practice. But I also, you know, in the last few years have definitely, I think, fallen out of it more, possibly more than ever in the last few years. And the busier you get, the harder it is to balance so many different things, which I talked about in my chapter for that book. But I do think that I've internalized a lot of it. And that I'm able to just, you know, click into that place.

Slipping to it. Yeah. Yes, I know what you're talking about. That's hugely, hugely important, because I think the more, the more you study and the more you meditate, I know this, and I know those from teachers who do this, you know, every day of their lives for the last of the years, they talk about how you get to a point where everything is meditation. And the easiest bridge to this is like a walking meditation, which is not what typically someone thinks of when they think of meditating, I think, you know, eyes closed or, you know, low disposition, blah, blah, blah. But that is a bridge. Like when you go out into the world with a meditative outlook, it changes the way you interact and see the world. So I think that's important. Like there is a way to meditate without doing formal sitting down. That being said, I feel like there's a part of me that always is like, yeah, but don't be too clever and think that you don't have to sit for some water opposed.

Exactly. Exactly. So like the other day I was, I was waiting for a call and I was irritated that it hadn't come. And I was sort of there anxious and I was on a porch swing in my parents' backyard because I was in Colorado. And at some point I was like, whoa, there's a full moon. It's perfect weather. There are crickets. What are you doing? Like freaking out about this phone call that could come any second and you're in this beautiful place and you're not even enjoying it. So I just sort of dropped it and tuned into the feeling of swinging back and forth and back and forth. And you know, that's that was really as good as the breath for me in that moment. I just stayed with where I was in a kind of formless meditation and it completely, you know, was a mood interrupter.

It completely shifted the wind of things and brought me back into my body. But I completely agree with you that there's no replacement for actually sitting. And I think any any ability I have to do that at all is because of the however many hours of meditation that I've done, you know, my whole life since an questionable age. And I do think if you have kids, it's great to have them set even for a few minutes. I think Chihyem Tung-Brambajae says starting at eight years old, but I think it's also nice just to have them around having grown up that way. You really internalize things through osmosis as a child and like what better thing to absorb than just, you know, space. And I don't think it's it doesn't have to be like, please don't do a religious push your trip on people, kind of, you know, force your kids to appreciate you. But you do, it is nice to include them in that sacred space, you know, and it could be prayer or whatever. But I think meditation in particular is totally non-denominational. No one can claim that meditation is Buddhist or is anything else. You're just sitting there feeling yourself as a human. That's no one can claim that and it's a very, you know, timeless. It's been done in so many different ways by so many different traditions. Exactly. But just learning and teaching a child how to just stop and be is very precious and alarmingly declining, I would say, of a practice. It's crazy. I mean, so what was your, I want to, I definitely want to cover this. And then I have some late near-round questions for you to flip it around. But I want to, what was it like? So your parents studied and were students of Chogyam Trunka. How did that come about? And at what age did you kind of, you know, become aware?

Obviously you're talking about, you know, meditating with your parents, even though you're laughing at a pretty young age. Like, what was that like? Like, do you know how they got into it and how that impacted your life and all that? Yeah, absolutely. Well, they got into it in different ways. They grew up in sort of different jungles. My dad was born and raised in Costa Rica, even though his, you know, his name is Hector, Hector McLean III. So very Scottish line of ego. He acts there. Yes, that was Hector twice. That's his first and middle name. And so he grew up in Costa Rica, in Escasú. And basically it was like a wild, mowgli jungle kid, like had a lot of freedom, loved the jungle. And then when the volcano erupted there, his family moved to Manhattan, into a one-bedroom apartment. I think there was this incredible devastation that he felt from that.

And loneliness, and kind of desire to reconnect with some sort of, you know, nature situation. And eventually it led him to, he went to a talk by Chigem Trung Burempache in New York in that what we would call the early days in the probably early 70s. And he, Chigem Trung Burempache had just opened, I don't know when you say that fast, it sounds like you, it's like, bless you, because then, but he opened a place called Tale of the Tiger. The idea being that a tiger's tail cannot be wound into a knot. It always springs open. And that's some sort of metaphor for our own basic healthiness of our minds. And he opened this land center in Vermont. And a place for people to meditate. And my dad heard one talk of his, and he was like, "I'm not going to college, I'm going there." And he did eventually go back to school at Naropa, which is a university that Trung Burempache started. But he lived there for many years. And he's, you know, totally fell in love with the Dharma. And my mother grew up in a concrete jungle of San Diego. And they were like sort of also Lord of the Flies. Like their mother was a single mother of 10 kids. And she worked her way from being the, the typist at the San Diego independent newspaper to being the editor in chief. Oh, wow. So she was this amazing pioneer in journalism for women. But she was so busy trying to feed her family and get them out of the ghetto that she was not really attentive mother. So my mom had a childhood filled with a lot of trauma. And she always felt like she had this inner voice that kind of guided her to, she was actually 12 years old.

She had already tried heroin, grew up sort of in a drug den. And she was going to a lot of abuse. She actually had a wonderful mother, but she was, when she was around, but she was absent, was not wonderful. And so she was actually going to commit suicide at the age of 12. She came to a place where she was very seriously contemplating suicide. Or maybe it was 13, sometime between 12 and 14. And she was going, yeah, I think it was 12. She was going to commit suicide. And she was literally about to enter the act. And she heard a voice, a female voice saying don't. There's, you know, there's more that you need to find. And if you do this, you're just, if you commit suicide, you're just going to have to go through this all over again. And the voice told her to look for a guru or a teacher. And so she started at the age of, you know, 13 or something, starting to be looking for a guru. And at the age of 14, her boyfriend's parents meditated and taught her how to meditate. And she loved it. And she did it on the bus. And it became sort of her savior. And then he was a student of her boyfriend's father, was a student of Chirghim Trungpurampoche.

And for the opening of Naropa University, the summer of '74, he asked my grandmother, can I take Harry and Jamie to the opening of this university. And my grandmother, who was super into spirituality, said yes. And my mom went and actually fell completely in love with Chirghim Trungpurampang. And she wanted to drop out of high school and come go to Naropa. And he told, you need to finish school. But you can do it quickly. And she went back and some sort of magic was worked that all her credits were sped up from all this extracurricular stuff she did. And she graduated at the age of 16 and moved back to Boulder to be his student. So that was a long version of the story. But that's how they got together. That's how they met. And my father was the one of the first kusung, which is like an attendant to Trungpurampoche. Bodyguard, attendant kind of dude. And my mother was a very close student of his as well. That is really, really awesome. What a nice little auspicious birth for you. Yeah, totally. I think so. I think a lot about, oh, God, I really got to do something in this world. How many stars aligned that I was not in small? Yeah, to a very difficult, impoverished, starving situation. Or maybe equally bad to the Kardashian family. I don't know.

I was at neither of these extremes. Really good people. And you know what they have, they have their issues and there's like a lot of stuff. Of course. You know, if you go to the Dharma, you probably like comedy, it's probably because there's a lot of pain there, you know. It's true. And I mean, it's just, it's one of those things that once you kind of get on to any path like this, I don't even love the word the path. But once you kind of open your awareness and tune into this stuff, shit's going to happen. Like it's not, it's not going to pass undetected anymore. Your ignorance is kind of gone of what's going on. Not all of it, obviously. But yeah, you tune in and stuff happens. I've had, I've had many experiences like that. And I also consider, I was born into a great family. I have wonderful parents. They're divorced now. But I mean, you know, really individually wonderful people. And I've just had a really great life. And I think at the same things, like, you know, this is, you know, a very precious thing. And, you know, you want to make something of it. So with that, I want to go in to the reverse lightning round questions, which is you ask on your podcast. Yeah, I, because I hear you ask these questions to everyone. I'm like, Oh, Kelly's answers would be, you know, nobody's asked me. Nobody has. Here you go. Oh, shit, you might expose me as a fraud. So okay, here we go. Do you believe in God or a higher power or something like that? You know, as a Buddhist, I would say, obviously, that's a dumb question, Noah, why even ask? No. But, and you know, talking to all these comedians has really helped with this. I would say, yeah, on some level, I do. I do not believe in one person, one, any sort of an entity with an ego, you know, the way we talk about gods, very often, you know, especially if you think of like Greek gods or mass of egos that are so enticing. But I believe in a force within the universe that you can really communicate to. And I believe that it gives us little signs. I love that your podcast is called synchronicity because what I look, you know, if I'm theistic in any way, what I sort of have allegiance to or consider having like a higher power than me is that force in the universe that makes accidents happen in a particular way that makes funny little, funny little winks at you where there's just no way that I'll use the example of, I think part of this podcast also came out of this great show called the goddamn comedy jam.

And these guys have comedians do music. And that was part of like, oh, yeah, and then comedians doing something that's not comedies really interesting. And then I, so I had that idea and then I happened to be seated on the plane next to those guys. Same flight home, seated next to each other. I'd literally driven to the airport with them. And I was just like, you know what, there's something there. And actually all half my great guests have come from their show, the guy that, you know, they helped me write the jingle for my podcast. And it was like, I just knew that there was some reason I kept running into these dudes and that I was next to them on the plane. And actually, the more I explored that, like the more blessings came out of that situation. So that's not like the probably the biggest moment of synchronicity I could point to, but those moments to me prove that there is something that's very alive out there that is in some way watching.

Right. It's weird that you describe this too, because I very much align myself with a lot of the Buddhist teachings that are essentially, you know, no Godhead per se, like even the Buddhist, he's the one who is awake. That's what that means. I mean, he's God. But I also have too many, too many direct experiences in my life that there's something going on, whether that's my consciousness interacting with the consciousness of everyone else and the collective unconscious. I don't know, but there's something going on. And I'd be like, pretty ballsy to be like, nah, definitely not, definitely not. So I love that answer. So I, yeah, well, I agree. No Godhead and the important point to put here, and this is the twist on, and you couldn't also say like, yes, I believe in God the way we think of it, because I don't believe it's any separate from myself. I don't believe it's any separate from you or Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton or whomever. That's right. ISIS. That's not, that's a comp all expressions of the same force of energy that I'm talking about. So it's also God, they say it comes from the word good. And so I do believe in a force of goodness in the world. So that is to say, I am God.

Yeah, of course. That's what we were getting at. I love that. So next question, these are your questions. Have you experienced God? Yeah, I mean, I think that my story of that guy is an experience of that. But let me think. Yeah, I think I experienced God when I really allow my intuition to speak to me. And you just know that something is right, no matter how it looks from the outside, you follow that gut poll. And then it turns into a whole wonderful bouquet that you never would have been able to, you know, design yourself. It's weird how when that happens. And it's, it's, it's not always easy to listen to your intuition and tap into the flow or whatever that is. But when you do, I will get to another question that kind of ties into that. These are your questions. But I totally agree. Love loving these answers.

So what happens after you die? I think that you're like, what the fuck just happened? I think it's some part of you is still there going, you know, I don't think that it blips out of existence when you die. Because I don't see anything in the universe that just disappears. When you burn something, you know, it becomes smoke, it becomes part of the air, we breathe it, you know, I think maybe those ashes go into the soil and they, you know, then become part parts and nutrients that are part of a tree. You know, I don't see any proof that you can make anything completely go away. You need something you've shitted out. So I hope that it does not being shit out by life at the end. So death is the butthole. That's the ethereal butthole. No, I think we must come back in some form. And I'm inclined to say reincarnation.

I've had moments where I have physically felt like maybe it had a flashback to having a penis. And like going physically what it feels like to be a man and like have a mustache and like, I don't know, I wasn't these drugs. Like, I don't know where that would have come from, you know. Yeah, I'll relay a weird thing that, you know, I have also vivid flashbacks or intuitions that I was a woman in some past life, maybe the most recent one. And it's this crystallized intensely when our son was born. Hey, I wasn't supposed to help with the birth at all, but because they were like short staff on nurses because I was like freaked out. I was like, nah, it's gonna be weird. I don't want to do that. But I totally clicked in. It was like I was like a birthing partner.

I was like helping her push. I was lifting her leg. Did you have any sympathy pains? So many, you have no idea. Cancer is the mother of the zodiac. Yeah, so I definitely had a ton of sympathy pains. And then also when he was born after that first week, which is a great latest the craziest fucking it's like being on drugs. It's totally nuts. But I was like naturally without intellectualizing anything like incredibly good with him. And like it felt like I had done this before and had like a motherly connection to it. So I totally know your me. It's like weird when you say, you know, yeah, I think I might have had a penis in a past life. And I know what it feels like, or I'm like, yeah, I know it's like to be on, but I wouldn't say it if you didn't feel it. It's certainly not something you would invent to say to anyone. So right. Absolutely. You would not be like, yeah, I have the mom thing down. Yeah. And then I see people come in with these extraordinary talents that some could say God given talents. But I think they're talents that that they know, you know, know how to do like, I just knew how to write when I came out. And even performing has been something I've really had to learn how to do writing. I, you know, I had a teacher in fourth grade call me and say like, did someone help you write this? Like, it was, you know, I just I just knew how to do that somehow. Yeah. And that's probably my only talent, which is why I bring it up.

Well, I came in with very naturally and didn't have to like beat out of myself. Well, and I'll say this just like I was reading some of your stuff on Huffington Post. You are an excellent writer. So like, the mark of a good writer to me, and I at least I can tell what good writing is, is someone who can speak in their own voice that doesn't feel like someone else, but also feels very natural as though they're speaking to you. And you do that perfectly. I mean, I was reading your thing about the, the LA parking tickets when you described the totem, the totem. It's really funny. It's really awesome. And right on point two.

I'm glad you read that one. That one didn't get as many reads as other ones. And I, I probably believe in it more passionately than anything. Fuck you. I know the feeling. I know that's it for the world. Oh, man. Okay. Moving on to the next question. What is the meaning of life? This one's hard. And it's good you're doing this because now I feel bad for doing this. Putting it, reflecting it back at you. Yeah. I think sex has got to be up there, right? That's part of it. It's definitely part of it. No, I think this sounds weird, but I think just to live, like with that, overthinking it too much, just to burn really fully as brightly and feel and experience what is here.

And I think I think love is kind of at the center of that. I agree. You know, and just to, just to fully experience that whatever that God or basic goodness nature is, to fully experience that unity with the whole world. You know, I think that basically, I think you could say the meaning of life is art is another way of putting it. It's like, well, there is no meaning to a beautiful work of art that someone does necessarily. It might be a very abstract thing, but the fact that it exists, even if it's like a sand mandala, then thrown to the wind, the fact that it exists just means so much. That's a really awesome answer. Thank you. I think I need to, I don't have to think about it more. It's such an easy question. I'm surprised you didn't just rattle it off right at the beginning. So easy. What's the name of life? Yeah. Next question. What is magic?

Well, I think magic is the fact that I was sitting here, having this conversation with you, staring at the mind beyond death book. And then you said this great book, mind beyond death, sometimes it took me like three minutes to realize, oh, I'm looking at that book. I'm staring right at it. But that kind of synchronicity is the name of your podcast. It's when time and space bend so that two minds or many minds or things actually connect beyond all likelihood. That's like the best answer I've ever heard. Seriously, that is, and what you're describing is something that is, it's easy to experience it when I say like, you can have that experience, but to put it into words like that is really, like you're definitely a good writer, because that is a really eloquent way of describing a phenomena that I'm well versed in. And I think everyone is experienced on some level. So awesome job. Well, thank you. Can I flip it back on you? Because I'm so curious. It's my favorite question to ask people what is magic. Yeah, yeah, I'll I will. So I've experienced magic a lot in my life. And it's something I would describe as that it it is outside the known concept and laws of the world as we like to think of them.

And I think this has a lot to do with kind of how we like to think of ourselves as people. So we like to think that, you know, I'm Noah. I'm Kelly. I'm this person. I do this. This is what I do. But when you really reflect back on that, whether through meditation or psychedelics, that's not a really solid entity. It doesn't actually exist. So that in the context of that, magic is possible at any time, because if something doesn't actually exist, it can be literally occurring at any time that possibility or the potential for it is there. But what I think magic is in a regular perception of life is when something pierces the veil of how we expect or think things should go. And I think it's something that you can actually cultivate. It's something that is also elusive. If you try to make magical situations all of the time, I don't think it works. It's something you can't it's this lightness. It's this open handness. You don't want to grasp onto it, and you don't want to let it slip through your fingers. So if you can kind of get into that wavelength or vibration, you can promote synchronicities. You can promote magic. But yeah, I mean, that's what I guess I think it is. It's this thing that it just it's the piercing of the veil of how we expect regular consensus reality to go. That's what I think magic is. I love that piercing of the veil in case you should write that book. Okay, last question. Nice little clip. Nice judo flip. Yeah. Okay, what is love? I think love is the unseen network that connects all of us.

It's almost like the ocean, the energetic ocean that we all are, and we all are little drops in, and that ocean may be perverted in some places. Maybe it's completely that love is maybe it's completely frozen on one part of the earth, you know, and inaccessible, and doesn't even know that it's water because it's still, and it doesn't look like doesn't feel like the water that it sees, you know, and sometimes maybe even some of that water evaporates and is seemingly gone before it rains back down. But I think that love is that ocean of energy that is inseparably all of us. It's so good. And like, here's the thing, you know, and I know you're realizing now that you ask these questions, and it's like not the easiest thing to answer, but what's so great about these questions is you really get to see what people are made of and how they view whatever it is we're experiencing, and that's really well done. And I love this theme that you have reinforced with this, which things don't leave. They may be transmuted or turned into something else for a little bit, but there is this recycling and there is this cycle of things that happen. I love that.

Okay, so I now have my quick little questions. They're not as hard as yours. God. Here we go. What's your favorite color? Rainbow light. That's my answer. That's a great answer. What's your favorite number? 69. I got a credit card with six. My boyfriend and I got our first like joint finance situation on the back of our credit cards. I don't know. I don't know. I'm telling you guys that my credit card number is the secret code on the back is 069. The next podcast to hear the other. Yeah, I just will do the reveal and expiration date next month. No, but I just I love that. I was like, that's great sign. That's awesome. It's also 69 is the cancer, the sign for cancer. Yeah, it's kind of a beautiful sort of mirror image cyclical thing.

Yeah, it's cool. What is your favorite animal? I really, I couldn't choose one, but I will say that I connect very intensely to the bald eagle, not just because I'm America, America, but yeah, I've just had a lot of sort of interesting run ins with bald eagles. And if they do appear, sometimes I'll take it as a sign of synchronicity because they're just an animal that has sort of shown up for me in really interesting ways and moments. So if I ever see one, I feel like it's seeing like a shooting star or something. So it's interesting that it's the universe like communicating to me. It's really interesting. You mentioned that because in a previous podcast, I did my friend Mikey was a comedian in LA, his dad, he recommended he come on the show. And in the episode he did it, he was actually talking about synchronicity. And with use the example, I think of an eagle, like if you're going for a job interview and you identify with an eagle and you see it on like a painting, don't worry, relax, you're going to get the job. Right, right. That's really interesting. All right, last question. Can you share a practical tip that has helped you in your life? Yes. Is there any specific like practical tip for like how I wash my car?

Anything that is literally any tip. Okay. Well, I just deployed the book. I talk about this in in the chapter that I wrote for what's it going to be called? We're tentatively calling it practically mindful. Practically mindful. Yeah. So a practical tip that I have, and this has been like sort of my own secret practice or religion or cult of one, is kind of based on what I was talking about, the universe winking at you or giving you little signs. And so Chugim Trungper and Bache told, had a student who said, should I go to India? He probably had lots of students that said that. Should I go to India and move there? Or should I stay here? And he said, in front of this assembly of people, he said, follow the accidents. And he didn't say like, Oh, India's great. You know, there'll be so much more spiritual. And he didn't say, Oh, don't go with something bad is going to happen. He just said, follow the accidents. And so I think there is sometimes a misconception that the universe is like one dimensional and that you're doing things to it and moving through it.

Making it what you want, which, you know, in some ways is true, but it's so much more of an alive conversation. And I think if you just really listen, the more you listen and the more you look, the more you'll see little things happening, little signs and little wings and little arrows going with maybe go that way. And so my tip would be, look for those, listen to them. And when something, when an odd little coincidence happens, and you run into the same person for the third time, maybe go have coffee for them with them and just see what is there's some energy that wants to play itself out here. I'm going to just let I'm just going to see what it is. Yeah, there's a quote by Carl Jung, which is synchronicity is an ever present reality for those who have eyes to see.

And that pretty much is kind of what you're talking about. Just be aware of these things going on and try to follow them when you can. Kelly, thank you. I'm so glad this came together and this auspicious, eclipsee type of period. This is really awesome. Thank you so much. This is fantastic. Thank you so much. Have you ever have like a podcast guest cancel and it's the 11th hour? We'll do it again. I will totally. I totally will. Awesome. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] Oh, so that was this is a song I've been working on for a little bit in the past week. I'm really liking the way of shaping up. I haven't been making a lot of music, so it was nice to make this and something I like. Hopefully I still like it in a week. I'm trying to get good about making stuff for every episode. For the people who listened past that and to that, thank you. Also, how excellent of an episode and how excellent of a person is Kelly. I'm sure she'll be back on. Definitely check out her podcast, The Dow of Comedy. There's many locations you can find it. You can find it on iTunes, you can find it on Stitcher, you can find it all of your favorite places. On the web, if you're into that type of thing, you just want to type it into your phone or your browser, you can go to minepodnetwork.com/kelly.

You can also go to dowpodcast.com and that's dow with the TAOpodcast.com. Really, thank you guys so much for listening past the music, for listening every week. We're coming up on 50 episodes here, which is kind of mind-blowing. 52 will be a year, exactly, because I don't think I've missed the week. Thank you for listening and I will see you next week. Go Dolphins. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] The grill is shot. The chairs are held together by optimism and what happened to the rug? Sounds like your outdoor setup is not ready for patio season. Fix it all with Wayfair. Shop Wayfair for grills, rugs, furniture, and more. With 20 million five-star reviews, room of choice delivery, and expert setup on qualifying orders, it's never been easier to do more for less. Get 10% off your first eligible purchase. Hurry to Wayfair.com or download the app now. Wayfair, every style, every home.