Imagine Duncan Trussell

(upbeat music)

This is...

This is Crenus.

This is Crenus.

This is Crenus.

This...

This is Crenus.

This is Crenus.

This is Crenus.

This is Crenus.

This is Crenus.

This is Crenus.

This is Crenus.

This is Crenus. (upbeat music)

Welcome to Crenusity. My guest this week is Duncan Trussell. This is Duncan's third time on the show. I am honored and privileged and grateful to call Duncan a friend. We've connected, oh boy, I don't know, five or six years ago through a mutual admiration of all things kind of unseen. He comes at a lot of this stuff from approaches I don't know. So you'll hear him using the words like magical and stuff like this and he brings a Crowley a lot. I have a very cursory understanding of most of that stuff, but do you understand occult practices and magical practices through different cultures and veins?

And I think what's cool about all this stuff is if you really start to investigate any one avenue kind of reality or unreality, yay! Start to realize that I'm talking about kind of the same thing just in a different way. And they've imagined these different kind of ways to interact with what sustains what we know out in this world. So that's what this episode is really about. I have been and you'll hear more of my affinity for 20th century thinker, mystic, philosopher guy, born in Barbados, Neville Goddard. And yeah, he's got some interesting ideas about imagination and how it creates reality. And I've been having a good time bouncing this idea, which just to be clear, kind of fully believe at this point, off people I admire and respect and know, you know, they think about this shit.

And it's interesting to see people's reactions. And this one, Duncan does the most responsible and kind of the best thing you can do. And I'm sure this comes from experience on his end. When you start talking about things like imagination creates reality, the I am in your head is God. You are God, all of these things. There can be a lot of different reactions to that. And one of those reactions can be to really get untethered from our reality. And I see that as someone who that has happened to in the past. So being very acutely tuned into that potentiality is important. And Duncan very deftly deals with that right off the bat, which I think is very important.

And from there, we kind of just bounce back ideas about if this is true, what does that mean? What are some of the different perspectives from different cultures and religions that may provide some insight into this idea? And we deal with like real shit, like existential dread and loneliness and not knowing and, you know, confronting desires and what you should want and shouldn't want and what's okay to want. And all of these different things that I think everyone thinks about all the time. And obviously what comes out of this is having some type of clarity and knowledge about what you want and being able to focus on that in a disciplined way.

That's a theme that comes up definitely in this episode is discipline. And also bouncing that off this idea that we can use our imagination to change things. So, imaginal activities and imagining in general can be its own form of discipline. So anyway, we'll get into all of that. You'll hear much more about imagination in the coming weeks going to speak with Mitch Horowitz tomorrow in the city with the book The Miracle Club, which got me tuned in to Neville Goddard and who introduced me to Matoruitz, Duncan. So the circle is complete. That's all I gotta say about this. You know, Duncan is, right?

Popular comedian, podcaster. Essentially was the impetus and genesis of mind pod network and synchronicity. All of these wonderful things that exist now because of this wonderful human imagination of Duncan Trussell. So, enjoy this episode. Let's do two quick thank you so people and organizations who support this show ForSigmatic.com/Sync, S-Y-N-C, go there. I'm sure you've heard of it, but on the off chance you're hearing this for the first time or you've heard of it and you've never taken action, go to ForSigmatic.com/Sync, get 15% off your first order of mushroom coffee, mushroom tea, mushroom elixir, mushroom pretty much anything mushroom, they got it.

Go check it out. This stuff is good for you. It makes you feel good. I've used it. They're sweet, sweet fellows. They're doing good stuff. Support good people. So that's, thank you, number one. Thank you, number two. Go to the people at Ned, listen to the episode before this one to get a sense of who these guys are. It's basically, my dad tried to give me shit. Listen to this. My dad was like, you're just doing a big sponsor to have for Ned. It's like, what was, basically all cynical. Like I did this in some secret shady deal with Ned. They're fucking cool people. I wanted to have them on. I've had other sponsors of this show.

I haven't invited them on. I just really vibe with these people. I really appreciate what they're doing. I don't trust CBD companies as a general rule. I trust these guys 'cause I've spoken to them. Got a sense of what they're doing, why they're doing it and who they are. So I take their CBD. It's awesome. I take their full spectrum, CBD oil, pretty much every day without fail. And it's awesome. And I don't wanna tell it all the medical and amazing benefits. Just do a little googling. It's pretty cool. But if you believe in the karmic transfer of intention into things that end up in your hands, it's hard to do better than Ned.

So big thanks to those guys. You can go to helloned.com. Use the code sink and check out another 15% out. Maybe I should work out some special deals with people, some custom percent. So I stand out, I don't know. Anyway, thank you to you guys. Right in review of this podcast, if you like it, go check out Duncan's podcast. If you haven't heard of it, if that's possible, you've heard of this and haven't heard of that. It's crazy. How is that possible? I don't know. Anyway, let's also all imagine Duncan getting this move one. Right? Can we do that? It's a synthesizer. Go look it up. Imagine Duncan getting it and being so happy.

That'd be cool. Anyway, without further ado, here is Duncan trust. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

Yeah, man, how's everything else going? Now we can officially start.

Great, beautiful. Yeah, things are great. Things are going really well over on this side of the world.

So I wanted to run a few things by you because you triggered a pretty cool sequence of events for me in the past two and a half, three weeks, because I don't even remember the tweet, but you tagged me with Mitch Horowitz. And I'm going to see interview him on Thursday. I'm going in the city to his place and gonna say, what's up? So I was like, all right, I'm interviewing this guy now. I reached out to him, it seemed cool. And he wrote the book The Miracle Club, which I was reading through. And in it, I was blown away by this idea and specifically this dude Neville Goddard, who he mentions in the book.

And specifically because he has this idea that the I am in the Bible is our human imagination and that is literally God and that creates everything around us. Not only that, it's a principle in like an operative power that we can use in like empirically test to see if we can shape external reality, which has always been kind of like an interest of mind because I don't know if you know this, the reason this podcast is synchronicity is because back in 2003 and four, I had like brought on by a regular dose of LSD, like a three month experience of non-stop synchronicity. No intermittent points, sometimes through the dreaming state, overwhelming, totally blew out my fucking consciousness, had to like totally recuperate and all this stuff.

But this dude Neville Goddard talks about a lot of this shit that I went through and that I experienced. I'm like, oh my God, I've never heard anyone talk about this. And I'm curious knowing that you're also passionately interested in kind of like how reality is and what this is. And we speculate in all this stuff. How does that idea of our imagination being the biblical God that everyone reads about? How does that mesh with your idea of reality as we know it?

Oh, that's a cool question. Well, you know, it does remind me of, I wish I could remember where I read this 'cause I didn't verify how true it is. Maybe it was just speculation, but it was something to do with the evolution of the neocortex in relation to our relationship with our own thoughts and our imagination. So, and our subconscious in that the, with the development of the neocortex, a kind of chasm began to open up between the imagination mind and what we would call the like rational thinking mind. But prior to that, what maybe now we would call like a mental breakdown, hearing voices, thinking you're communicating with God, was actually a kind of normal occurrence in the sense that our imaginations were not really so separated as they are from our thinking mind or from our experience reality.

So, people were even, in even more of a kind of sleepwalking state in the sense that they were not just dealing with what we're all dealing with now, which has started occurring thoughts. But also on top of that, the shit that is now reserved for the six or hopefully eight hours you get when the sun goes down was actually happening when the sun goes up. So, this, I mean, imagine that shit how this dragging that would be. So, navigating in this world with that extra overlay would have been a little, wouldn't have been as conducive to survival probably in the sense that we need more of a grounded connection with what is happening at least in the material world so that we can deal with that instead of having a simultaneously tied up bears.

And being the imaginative work, right, right, right.

Yeah.

It's interesting because, you know, I have found this idea of kind of grounding to be most of what I've been doing kind of unconsciously with no like conscious direction over the past 15 years or so getting married, you know, living the lives of a household or, you know, having kids, like this thing that really tethers you to the world not in a kind of obligation sense, but it just like reminds you of the responsibility of being a human being.

Yeah.

I love, I think also as you do is that like, we have this cool equilibrium between that very real kind of what people refer to as the mundane world, but kind of our regular responsibilities as human beings, but this deep kind of operative connection to the imaginal realms, the spirit realms, whatever it is. So, part of this dude's technique, and I've been trying it. This is why it's been kind of really been interesting for me is it's just, it's kind of like the secret type stuff, which I never read in full disclosure. I just kind of know what it is, like positive thinking, well, of attraction shit.

But his idea is that if you really desire something, and what I like about that is it makes you figure out what you want, which is like something I didn't do for a very long time, just like ask myself, like, what do I really want? Like, do I want to be like famous? Do I want a lot of money? Do I want to like have a lot of sex? All these basic questions that people like probably don't ask themselves and just guide their lives. So, it makes you ask this question, what do you really desire? And then before you're going to sleep, or anytime you enter in kind of that hypnagogic state, is you imagine it in full sensory detail, as clearly and vividly as possible, as your own kind of from your own perspective, not like a movie scene that you'd be watching on a screen, but from within your own body.

And then you load it with like, essentially love, but let's just call it any positive emotion. And you do this repetitively, and you kind of like, wave this off of what you really want. You know if you're asking for some bullshit, or if you're asking for money, you might be asking for financial security, or something like that. And if you start doing this, like the theory is from the student Neville Goddard, is shit will start changing in your world externally, quite literally, and furthermore, that this is something we're doing regardless of whether we're consciously aware of it. So by empirically testing this before, you know, you go to sleep every night, you can then be like, all right, is this real or is just some kind of like, hokey-ass idea that I don't know what it is?

And dude, since I've been doing it, this shit has been like mind-blowingly crazy. Like it reminds me of a psychedelic state, but one without kind of the frenzied, like, overactive mind. There's like a sense of equilibrium, because you start to enter into these vividly imagined states that then literally take place as you imagine them, which is very, very interesting, because I think intuitively we sense this is going on, but to actually operate, like, operatively use this in a way, and then see it happen, to me, it's kind of mind-blowing. It's been blown.

Oh, yeah, I mean, it can literally blow your mind, which is why so many of these grim wars and various instruction manuals for this particular practice have these pretty severe warnings in the beginning. And, you know, quite often the practice itself of magic, it usually the advice is to learn some discipline first, so that when you kind of do start experiencing this reality that you're talking about, which has so many wonderful implications, depending on how tethered you are to the world, or to your current understanding of the world, you won't blow a fuse, which does happen to some people, because the overwhelming realization that life as they knew it was some kind of dream, or that they're in a dream, or that you can lucid dream while you're awake, or however you want to put it, for some people this is not a really, at first it's really exciting, especially if you're in need of a thing, which is why there are some real pragmatic uses for these practices, but then after you start getting what you want, now you have to start dealing with another problem, which is that reality itself starts becoming very porous and permeable, and within that you kind of have to deal with the fact that really you're probably still in the dream.

So like if we were to go to that, potentially like completely incorrect thing, I said upfront, so sorry. (laughs) We're both science here, which is that as the neocortex develops these, in a differentiation forms between the conscious and subconscious mind, or the kind of like all this stuff that the mind was overlaying on top of reality, starts getting pushed into the background, the question then would be, oh, do you think we got it all in the background now? Do you think that what we're seeing in the foreground is actually real, and the stuff in the background isn't? Oh, I'm afraid not, it could be (laughs)

it could be that this process is continuing. In other words, perhaps at some point, seeing a dragon, a fairy, a unicorn, a mythological being, an encounter with a burning bush, an encounter with some entity or spirit, seemed as real as an encounter where the person does right now. And similarly, maybe, because this thing that we're experiencing is more of a projection than a reality, then that means that we can start controlling the projection, and in that, there's some magic that can be done. But also, the sort of other side of that, realization is, but you're still just playing make-believe. (both laughing)

Which is, so that sounds, by the way, it sounds like I'm poo-booing, it's not, oh.

You're being responsible, so I would say, my impression of you giving this is that, you run a popular podcast that deals with consciousness and weird mystical things. I run a podcast that isn't as popular, and I get a lot of communications from people going through these experiences, very real experiences that I've had before, but to also temper that and say, hey, listen, you're still a human being if you're communicating to me right now, make sure you're aware of these things, don't let it consume your life to the detriment of your physical, emotional, psychological well-being. That temperance is critical, like it has to be there.

For me, why I keep saying it's mind-blowing is, my mind was literally blown in 2003 and '04, it happened. It fucking exploded, I got diagnosed as bipolar, I was on lithium for three, four years, eventually got off it with the help of the psychiatrist and my family, so I've literally lost my mind, being in this alternate reality, had no kind of interface with the world, I get it. I'm also incredibly conscientious of the fact that that could happen again, theoretically, if we're looking at the clinical diagnosis. What I also think is important here that you mentioned, or alluded to a little bit, is having some type of ethical framework for if you're going to use this as an operative power, that yes, this may be a neutral principle that you could use for good or bad, but you probably wanna use it for good, not just 'cause we're saying so, but because there's some basic rules you can follow.

For me, what's kind of been like a really stabilizing ethical framework, kind of recognizing or looking at this imaginal creating reality type idea, is the golden rule, which is like my favorite fucking thing right now because embedded in the golden rule is that you have to know thyself, like you need to know what you wouldn't want done to you or what you would like if someone did for you if you did for them. So I think that is kind of this torch I've been carrying around when I've been thinking about, first of all, what the fuck would this reality be like if we could make it as cool as possible?

Like what would we really like to fix? Not selfishly, not egotistically, but like what are the things we would like to see emerge in this world? And if you use the golden rule as kind of like your beacon, the shit gets pretty fun. Like it does in like a real way and not a kind of a delusional fantasy way, but like you can actually do in some fun stuff.

Yeah, well, I mean, it's the golden rule kind of contains within it a way to expand the circumference of the identity, to include not just you, but those around you. So, you know, the, in not in a sense of like, oh, I want to, it's a beautiful thing. It's beautiful at every level. That's the literal interpretation. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. It's some kind of like existentialist, you know, Jean-Paul starts at anything you do, you give permission for the world to do. And so it's a kind of way to start using everyone's innate, inborn selfishness as a mechanism to extend the circumference of the self so that you think, oh my God, yeah, I wouldn't want someone to rob from me, right?

They're to steal from me. And if I am stealing from people, I'm literally giving permission for the whole world. At least as long as I imagine that people are of equal value to steal from me, if I imagine that some people deserve to be stolen from, or there's a hierarchy of self, or any of those sad delusions that people have, then it's a different story. But if you're going to go from the premise of, all are created equal, then from that to place, there's a kind of equanimitous attitude that you have to take on, which in the sense that you're dealing with, the fact that whatever it is you're doing, whatever, whether it's some radical, violent aggressive behavior, or just some mild sloppiness, you are giving permission for the world to do that very thing to you.

And so this, I think, kind of has some tie in too, the secret stuff, or the idea of creating a resonance with specific frequencies, and then by creating that resonance, you cause a vibration to appear, and that vibration is the manifestation of the thing you desire. So in other words, if I can sort of start vibrating at the frequency of compassion, real compassion, then I'm going to start experiencing that compassion directed towards me. Another way to put it would be, when I look in the mirror, I'm going to see myself. So if the composition of myself is more than my physical body, which I think it must be, it's the sum total of all my desires, my intentions, et cetera, then I'm going to see that reflected back at me wherever I go.

Whether I believe it or don't believe it, it's going to reflect back on me. And still again here at this place, you come to a general loneliness, which is that if you begin to realize that you are witnessing your projection and a lot of magic is an experiment in reflectivity, then you do have to deal with the fact that you're in a house of mirrors and this whole time that you thought you were surrounded by friends and me, family, teacher, lovers, you've just been looking at yourself. And now we get to what I think in my deep and sometimes very incoherent contemplations of the first cause. I think if there were a moment where the entirety of the universe came to a point of sentience, then that moment would be a terrifying moment of the most profound loneliness that there could ever be.

Because who do I talk to? What am I? I don't even know what I am. It's like a baby being born without a mother. And so there's this infinite, pure, energetic sentience just in the midst of itself. And what does it do? It starts screaming like a baby. And that screams the big bang. It explodes into time. And every single one of us is sort of a fragmental portion of that initial howl of deep loneliness, having to overcome the problem of being a sort of one alone, completely alone and that loneliness everybody feels, which we're all trying to associate with various bombs, potions, tinctures, gadgets, houses, cars, the money, the synthesizers, the love, the love.

All of it is actually a kind of like bandaging of this sort of initial sense of deep profound and absolute loneliness that the initial sentient force, the universe experienced prior to its nervous breakdown that we call creation.

I love that viewpoint because of how clearly you explained what I think is at the root of most people's existential dread, right? That there is at the end this kind of, oh my God, it's just me, this was all me. I totally get it. For me, this is the way I look at it. I think that energy, that source, whatever it was, rather than out of a scream of loneliness, it created itself. I think it started creating all these stories and narratives. Like we would if we wrote a book or if like George RR Martin wrote Game of Thrones. He's like, you know what? I love these fucking stories so much. I love them so much, I wish they were real.

How do I make them real? What can I do to make them real? And whatever the sources go, you know what? I gotta die. I gotta die to go into this and forget that I am this source. Go into all of these little characters and narratives and stories, these leaves of the tree and forget. And then what I'll do to remind myself that, oh yeah, everything is great. There's all this loving energy source that created things is at certain points along these narratives that I've created for each individual leaf on the tree or remind them that I'm always there. I'm always in you. And what I am is literally that, the I am.

So when we think of our imagination, when we think of anything, that's actually the operative power of God or source or energy or, you know, the clear light into bed and Buddhism. And this is something that the more I've kind of just contemplated it, what's weird man is like, I've told you this a lot of times, like I've had a very hard time meditating. Like I've tried every Eastern Western approach to get into like, how do I fucking meditate? And you know what ends up happening is, I have all my friends telling me my family, it's so great. I've done it, I've witnessed the power of it. But what I end up doing now, is I call it my imagination time.

But what I fucking do is I go down, get quiet, figure out what I really want. I'm essentially doing one pointed, you know, Vipassanam focusing on the thing I want As soon as it wanders, I go right back to the thing I want, I notice all these straight thoughts, and then I go, "Holy shit, this is actually what I think is going on." And the reason I'm so convinced or evangelical about this in a certain way, not no pun intended, is when I had this big extended synchronicity experience, which was very crazy in a lot of ways, I kept thinking I'm Jesus. I keep going, "I'm Jesus Christ. I'm Jesus Christ.

I'm Jesus Christ. I had no knowledge of the New Testament, I didn't know anything about him, I had no idea about any of this shit, ever never read about it." And I go, "I'm Jesus Christ. I'm Jesus Christ. I feel like Jesus Christ right now." And so what Goddard talks about is he says, "Listen, the only thing I've ever heard him say, and you know, you can get a vibe of someone when they're speaking, the only thing I've ever heard him say in the negative, meaning like, this didn't happen. This is wrong." As he says, "The secular or historical telling of the Bible, anyone who thinks that this is something that actually happened in real life, just as confused, these are psychological states that one moves through and experiences and he relates them, they're all these different things."

It's really, I find it fascinating, but the one he calls kind of that resurrection is this IM power. This is when people take psychedelics, when they get into lucid dreams, whatever, they experience it and they're like, "Holy shit, what is this? What is this?" And the fact that you can in regular, not drugged out, not anything, just before you're going to sleep, start kind of harnessing and getting in touch with this thing, this fucking nuts. Like, it's really, it's really been nuts. It's more, I mean, you know, I was just hanging out with my baby and I was watching him take in the profound glory of a comforter, right, and like, you know, just like, you know, realizing like this is what's one of the things in your world, a massive, soft, white, malleable thing that you can block the light, they can become a house, they can become a tent that can cover you up that keeps you warm and seeing like none of this mental stuff about it, but just a general just joy over the fact that there's a comforter and it's there.

And so in that kind of like pre overlay situation, the boy is like living in a paradise, you know, prior to this like, you know, the beginning of the filtration process of reality, which is like, okay, I know what a comforter is, who gives a fuck, I know what this is, I know what that is, I know what that is, I know what that is, I know what that is, but I need that. So what you're talking about, the magical path, tantric path, is like, you know, I'm just, well, I, one way to like pull it out of like our reality and just, do you, do you play video games? Do you play video? I love fucking video.

Are you kidding me? I love video games. Okay. What's your favorite video game? Final Fantasy. Okay. So, you know, with Final Fantasy, my, I used to be addicted to World of Warcraft. Yeah, with these, with these games, like kind of part of the joy of the game is the attainment of this and that and watching the character sort of level up and gain increasing levels of freedom to move about the game and do various things and go to different parts of the game. Uh, if suddenly, you know, for the Warcraft, you start as the highest level character and you just type in whatever the instrument or the implement is that you want, the game would immediately become the most boring, stale piece of shit game of all time, right?

You, you would, you would be bored. You would be so profoundly bored, uh, because there wouldn't be a space between you and the thing that you want and the game itself is granting you these dopamine serotonin rushes every time you spend invest a certain amount of time and achieve the thing that you want it. So I think one of the things that happens with magic and tantra and the reason it's called like compared to a lightning bolt or throwing gasoline on a fire, these sorts of things is that it begins to shrink the amount of time in between that thing you can imagine and having that thing that you can imagine and the better you get at it, inevitably, the more you begin to realize, not in some folksy shit you read on the back of a cereal box, which is money doesn't buy love, but literally from encounters with massive success, massive demonstrations of miracles, massive synchronicities, massive lifting of the veil, you suddenly begin to realize that in the same way that in World of Warcraft or final, I'm a guessing finals fantasy, I haven't gotten into them yet.

You start off fighting these like little rabbits. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. And then it gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And the same way in Final Fantasy, you wouldn't want your character to go back and fight the little rabbits. It's not no longer interesting to you, similarly, you begin to realize it's all little rabbits. And in that case, your mind can sort of naturally free itself from the tethers of desire. It's one of the mechanisms, I think, of dealing with the pain of desire, because desire is a state of pain. When you write it hurts to want something, no matter what it is, no matter how good the thing is.

If you take it like, for example, I'll give you an example. Right now, I want a Mogue One. It's an $8,000 synthesizer. So for the last, since I heard about the Mogue coming out, I've had, you know, not a big sense of discomfort, but kind of the discomfort of having a little bit of sand in my underwear, which is the feeling of wanting the Mogue One. So my mind has postulated that should I get this particular synthesizer, the extinguishment of this particular desire is going to happen. Now the actual, what's going to happen with the synthesizer, which is I'm going to have access to these beautiful patches and these beautiful sounds, and I'll be able to like, you know, perfect my ability to play piano because it's a poly synth and all that stuff.

It's almost a secondary consideration, whereas the primary consideration is more of a kind of blind desire, right? So when I, you know, as I've been being taught, the beginning of beginning, like, rather than get the Mogue One and spend $8,000, it's more like, let me look at this desire. Yes. Like, what is it? What is the state itself, not moralizing over whether desire is evil or good or if it's an indication of a spiritual problem or spiritual success, but just a pure analytical breakdown of the state of desire itself. Yes. What is it? How does it feel? What other things have I desired and gotten and did it work?

Did the feeling come back? And so in this, I have found something of a loosening. I'm not saying I don't want that fucking Mogue One. I still want to. I've gotten in fights with musicians friend over it. I've embarrassed myself over it. I love this. It's literally the, like, the potency of the desire state itself is less than it was. And I would prefer that. In other words, the fantasy is like that song, I want to be a millionaire. Maybe it's billionaire. I don't know what it is now. That song's going to have to change in inflation. Trillionaire. I've seen it up. Yeah. Eventually, yeah. I don't know what it is now, but whatever the thing it is and really what the person is looking for is a state of desire less nets.

But people like Goddard and Mitch make a very good point, which I kind of love, which is that your desires are actually the creative outflow of the universe, desiring to appear in the stream. So as above so below, if we have a imagination and we go into a dream state where we populate the dream state with a variety of entities that we have various interactions with, similarly, we are in the dream state of the divine and the divine through our desires is attempting to have a kind of lucid dream by inviting us to perfect ourselves as we reach towards our desires. So this is why magic and Tantra and all these things are legitimate pathways towards a kind of piece, I think, but in my imaginings of it, the piece must come not from the power to manipulate phenomena according to our will, but through that manipulation, I think a kind of refinement of the self happens that transcends any kind of way that we have formed the universe.

And to me, that is a priceless gift and it's way better than a mode one. Here's what I would say to that. And I think that is like, again, amazing how clearly you say that and relate to your desire, which everyone can do. I want a new MacBook Pro, right? I know exactly this thing is $3,600 the one I want it's no one should be spending this much on a computer when you get it, but they're so nice. Here's the way I look at it is it does make you examine that desire, especially when you get more acutely tuned to this idea of that your imagination or your unconscious is creating reality. So there's two ways to look at it, right?

You can what I've done for the most, most of my life is exactly that like, well, do I really need this thing? Every time I've ever wanted a thing, it morphs into some other desire that whole is still there. It's not I didn't satiate, but then I look back and I go, you know what? Sometimes I did get that thing and I fucking felt amazing. I felt super fulfilled. It worked out exactly how I wanted to. Everything felt like it was in flow, you know, I see this a lot with gardening. Gardening is a good way to get in touch with this. When your vegetables and shit come up, you're like, Oh my God, like this is amazing.

So I look at it like, maybe you can imagine a scenario where you don't spend $8,000 on a Mo, but Mo is like, you know what, we just started sponsoring podcasts, which I know they're doing now, and I got, I got something to tell you after this, my friend. It's funny. You mentioned Mo. So I know they're doing that. Yeah. It's so weird. It's so weird. But anyway, imagine if you got this thing, imagine if you got this thing and you examined the reason you wanted it was not to fill this existential hole of desires, but because you wanted to make beautiful fucking sounds that when you made them, it made you feel good.

It made you feel good. It made your wife feel good. It made you listen. Whatever, wherever venue or output you put it out made people feel good. That's in line with the creative principle. And it also doesn't deny you something, which is I think not a bad kind of approach to this. You need to be discerning. You don't want to be wishy-washy. What I think you alluded to at the end there that I love too, is that this is also kind of a bait and switch. Every physical thing, every scenario you manifest, you'll eventually realize that you didn't want that thing, you wanted to be unified with that sense of fulfillment and love and consciousness.

And eventually you move towards that. And if, let's say that's 10% of your life, can you bump it up to 15? Can you bump it up to 20? Can you get to the point where you're essentially a Maharaji who's just like this loose veil of personhood, who's just magically manifesting whatever people want? Because that's how imagination works. So this is what's fine and been very interesting to me is that the more I kind of believe in the thing, believe in this principle, I started asking out for the most basic, greed-level shit. Of course. But what I actually got proof of within 24 hours was that this principle works.

I started having people come out of the woodwork tell me about synchronicities, really fucking weird ones. I started being able to have a conversation where someone's saying they want to mogue and I say, "Hey, I just found out Moge is sponsoring podcasts." Like weird shit started happening that I never could have consciously devised, but that I have gotten as confirmation that this is an operative principle to at least be explored. And again, what I really like about it is that there's an empiricism to it. And this is, I've never really gotten super into magic stuff, magical practices. I have explored Tantra, but this is just one of those things that you do and you see if it works.

That's better than someone saying, "Hey, this is how shit works. Take my word for it." That's like no one wants to hear that this day and age. To overlay this into kind of what I think is happening is to me, we're seeing this principle of imaginal reality cascade up in our actual consensus shared reality. I think Trump is doing this. I think his vision of him as president was more powerful than everyone who didn't think it was possible. That's why it happened. So I think we're seeing this cascade up and the more people who recognize this as a principle have kind of power in the best sense of the word to influence things for the good, then the arc of justice towards the good a little bit.

So it's a pretty fucking nuts of thing, "Yeah, man, get the move, but don't pay for it. Why would you? That's not a good it. That's too much money." But if they send it to you and it gave them benefit, it gave you benefit, it gave your listeners and other people in your life benefit, that's a win, win, win. And that's not- Well, that's true. You know, it's not far-fetched. Well, let me, I want to talk about, well, in the beginning of this beautiful articulation, it's so filled with love and sweetness and it's great because, you know, if I was, it's great. You mentioned to me what is truly the fuel that drives this.

And you know, everyone, when they quote Crowley, they always say, "He said, 'Do what you do is thou will.' Do is thou will.' Right? They say, 'Do is thou whole of the law.' But they don't even get to that part. They just say, 'Do is thou will.' And then they imagine that he was some kind of hedonist, which he was, but, you know, they don't understand what he meant by will. And they don't understand that they've never mentioned the last part of it, which is, 'Do is thou will.' She'll be the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will.' So they missed that last part of the puzzle there. And by missing that part of the puzzle, it's like having a vehicle and not putting gasoline in it, because that kind of sense of, like, if I achieve this or that, for example, success itself, regardless of what your version of success may be, if you achieve success and you are, like, have the intention that you just mentioned, which is it's going to help the world, it's not just in some ambiguous way, you're going to help the world.

You're going to help your family because you're going to have some more resources. You're going to help your friends because they might need money from you, just a very basic situation like that. But also, you're going to help people by demonstrating to them that you were able to reach this particular set of conditions that you wanted to have happen, and it can be very inspiring for people, and it can give people to do it. You know, I watch, Rogan's always tweeting this guy, I don't know who he is, I guess maybe his name's Goggins or so, I don't remember his name. Is that your guy, he used to be a Navy Seal, but he just jogs, and someone PS, whoever's filming him, gets zero credit, even though he's running at the equal pace with this Navy Seal.

He's saying very inspirational things, which is like, you can do this, just go out and run, you can do this. This is how you do it, and I'm doing it, and I watch that, and it inspires me to get out of my bike, to ride, to get exercise, to get outside. So his success is contagious, and it upshifts my reality, so just the very act of him demonstrating his will, but then also sharing it with everyone, it creates a positive impact in the world. And I think if you could, this is why David Nickton, who I study meditation with, he's been teaching me just some basic like, what it means to have intent, intention, what it means, the dedication of merit, when you're sitting down to practice, even if it's a kind of floppy, weird, loose consideration, instead of thinking, oh, I'm sitting to meditate today, because I want to do the cheap piece, or I want my fucking mind to shut the fuck up for a second, please, or at least to not be so disturbed by the turbulent mind.

But also, I want to give this practice to the world, because by my own sort of calming, by dearmoring, and becoming more gentle, I can only help the world. And so within that, I think is the key, operant term, which is selflessness. I'm doing this, and it can start with selfishness, paradoxically, which is why the Bhagavad-Gita when Krishna is saying, you're the people who seek me, the seeker after gold, which is very interesting, which isn't some pious shit. It's literally people who want to get rich, reach out to God. And guess what, they're granted the wish. But somewhere in the connectivity with the divine, or the source of wealth itself, you begin to realize that it wasn't the wealth you really wanted anyway.

But why not go for it? Don't shame yourself for your desires. Don't get all fucking neurotic and like, oh, I shouldn't want, I shouldn't, don't pretend to be some fucking renunci and ascetic brahmacari bullshit when you're not, you're going to be fucking miserable, and also you're not going to trust yourself. And also you're going to deny your own, like, where you are right now in this moment. I guess I'm talking to myself up to you. You know, you fucking amazingly said again, dude, and you're talking to yourself, you're talking to me, you're talking to everyone when you say it, which is awesome.

And I love that you brought up David, right? We got the Tibetan Buddhist perspective from Cho Giam, who is quite the character to write that whole lineage. And then you also mentioned the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedic sense. So one of the things that's weird about the way Goddard conceives this, he goes Old Testament, New Testament, straight Abrahamic, like consciousness states. He did not have much knowledge, worldly knowledge of these other things. So that was the immediate thing I weighed this against. Because, you know, I was in, I'm into this shit. I don't discard it. I don't say, oh, I'm out of it.

Too many more. It doesn't mess with my thing. Sometimes I wanted to do that and couldn't do it. So the way I view it is, whether it's from a shamanic culture in South America, whether it's from the Vedic traditions, whether it's from Buddhism, whether it's from, you know, New Age ritual magic practices or Western, you know, Christian mysticism, what they're all referring to. And I've read the Bhagavad Gita, I read the Dhammapada, I think the same fucking thing. You can call it I am. It's that thing in our head. And this thing is there always every good mystic, every person you shouldn't be paying attention to says the first thing, the first thing they say is don't take my fucking word for it.

Don't listen to what I'm saying, experience what I am saying yourself. And I think what we've seen through what we've imagined in our historical kind of lineage is that these people have come in in between the priesthood classes, maybe probably not even nefariously, but to mediate this connection that we all inherently have right to source. We can do this whenever we want, we don't need to go to church to do this. You can if you want, if it gets you more in the mood, but this is always within you. To me, that lines up with every fucking mystic, every culture, every religion. And I think it's amazing that when you start kind of cross comparatively looking at these things, you get this really interesting, like, holy shit, again, same thing.

Like what I was tuned into, I had never read him, but where Goddard pulls a lot of this from is William Blake and holy shit, I just started reading William Blake. And now I'm like, Oh my God, I couldn't have understood this if I would have read it at any other time, because what he is talking about, this poetic reality is imagination. He's talking about God. He's talking about this voice that we actually control. So when we listen to it, we think, Oh, well, that's just Noah. That's just Duncan. That's just Sarah. Whatever it is, no, like go, go start trying to shape your reality. Here's the thing with the meditation and these desires.

And I don't think this invalidates any Buddhist approach. Any other tradition is rather than trying to be aware of just your thoughts, see if you can have the imaginal intention to replace them with better thoughts, right? Because then if the thoughts are just going to come, I've never been able to shut them off pretty much ever, my entire life, I've never been able to do it. But I will tell you in this 10 days, since I've really kind of rocked this in my full being, dude, I mean, Alexis will testify to it. I've been less stress independent of external circumstances, bank account, impending birth, all of these things.

There's been this. So stressful. Dude. Yeah, it is, right? It's a crazy fucking period, but what I've noticed is, is if you are operating that this is a real principle and that imagination creates reality. If you get in tune and you know you're really doing this thing, you can chill the fuck out a little bit, which is what everyone wants money for anyway, just to be clear. They want it so they don't have that constant stress and pressure and blah, blah, blah. It sucks. It sucks up your whole fucking energy and you can't think about anything else. So if you can move into these states, even if they haven't actually physically happened, but believe they haven't, and then they start happening again, I feel like it's up to you.

You could level up to 99 in World of Warcraft, 120, whatever it is these days, but then you could realize, guess what? There's a thousand levels now. I didn't level up. I just got us, you know, as long as we're here, there's infinite possibilities. So it's a very, it's just kind of been blowing my mind and I knew if anyone would appreciate it, it would be you because I know this is shit you think about. I'll not just think about I've gotten in my, I've got myself in quite some trouble manifesting things prior to, like, I, you know, for me, like, you know, how come, and I can bear too many things to modular synthesizers, they feel appreciated.

To me, like I got into modular synthesis prior to knowing music. So I went the wrong direction kind of, but by going that direction, I now know more about music than I ever thought I would in this incarnation, and it's been a real joy, right? So similarly with manifesting, it's like kind of not what you would call a beginner's, what I would consider to be a beginner's game, so to speak. In other words, like, you know, a trumpet says to, before you can reject yourself, know yourself, and so I think like something about like really knowing who you are and knowing what's important, and knowing truly knowing what you want, not what someone else told you to want, not what an earlier version of yourself thought you wanted, but you really don't need more, really coming to like a real sense of like, what is a value in my life?

And to me, like, you know, family bath, sitting with my wife in the bathtub with the baby to realize that I am experiencing a state of bliss that exceeds experiences I've had on the greatest psychedelic at Burning Man. And there's nothing here except a bath, a baby, a wife, and me, a family, a home. To me, that really has shown a light on simplicity or something like, "Oh, this is good." Not good in, again, not in an ethical more way, but good in, "This is scratching the itch. This is giving me," or, you know, it like, there was a time in my life where the concept of waking up early in the morning when the sun's coming up was like a hell fantasy, right?

So like holding a, giving my baby a bottle as the sun's coming up when I've had maybe five hours of sleep and experiencing not resentment or anger, but just pure joy and seeing his sort of samadhi just from the bottle. These are transcendent states for me, meaning, you know, so in some ways I think a lot of us we've been had. You drive down the street and this is something Trumpet talks about, and you look up and it's billboard after billboard after billboard telling you what you need, what you should, what's going to make you better, what you might need and don't even know you need it. How many times you're on your fucking phone looking and it's like, it's like a picture of someone's foot and it's like, "Six signs of lung cancer."

You're like, "What the fuck, you fell foot and it kind of was in my foot." You know, so you're constantly being sort of, like you're, it's almost like we're being bulbated into these various like places to buy shit and okay fine, I'm not saying like therefore capitalism's evil or those people are sorcerers or whatever it may be. I'm just saying first, and this is not, I don't think, out of line when it comes to Elise Crowley, who really did advise a preliminary meditation practice of some sort of yoga discipline, learning how to truly like gain control of the wild horses that are pulling the charity of your life.

And then through that discipline, you will find, I think, not only a more effective route to manifestation, but also the things you manifest will actually be things that you want and desire. And you know what I mean? So then in that case, you don't accidentally become the sorcerers apprentice with all the fucking brooms and dancing around causing all kinds of problems in the workshop, which by the way, all that being said, some of my favorite moments have been when the brooms and buckets start dancing and you're like, oh, well, holy fucking shit, oh, I'm in my old age and having a real desire for more of a smooth sailing kind of life, I've become less fascinated by the dancing buckets and more interested in like, how do I calm?

How do I allow myself space to have a crazy, never ending neurotic mind and simultaneously beat the stable father figure and husband that my wife and my child deserve in their lives? And because that to me is like really, really the most important thing. And also, you know, the people I work with too, that too, of course. And so that, and I could say that now in a way that isn't like, I wish I were like that. It's like, I, you know, I really want to have a stable, peaceful home so that my child can have a really wonderful childhood. Yeah. And I mean, I think if you look at it, you've been imagining the thing that would help you along this path and kind of push you there.

I mean, that to me is what, huh, what I'm a one, it's the only way to achieve this piece of it. Yeah. I mean, it, it really though is, it's this interesting thing where I think whatever we want, we do end up getting, I think what you're referring to more than anything is know what it is and get in touch with that because otherwise it's all brooms and dancing and crazy, fantasia stuff. And most of the time, it would be terrible about that if you're constantly Mickey and you don't know what the fuck is going on and you have to put out this never ending water fall. It's draining your whole thing. That's like, that's a metaphor for your unconscious taking over.

So if you could get in your boat, you know, paddle on that water, go to a new kind of interesting scene where other things are going on, that's kind of what we want to do with this operative principle here. And it all starts with, dude, I'll tell you man, I had a kid already. I had been in the world of, you know, making money and all these things not until two weeks ago, did I ever really ask myself the question, what do you want? What do you really want? I luckily because of circumstance, skill, talent, whatever it is, imagination, good karma, whatever you want to call it, have weaved an amazing life for myself in the meantime.

But when I started asking that question, it was incredible to not only see how this works for myself, but how other people are either consciously or unconsciously using this principle. And one thing I really like, I want to add this, this thing that I felt that really helps with trauma a lot is one of Goddard's principles is that you can go, time isn't real, right? Let's just get my metaphysical conception out of there. It doesn't exist. We experience it as existing. I'm not saying we don't have bills that aren't doing the first and the last, whatever it is. I'm saying that we've all had those moments where, you know, Mitch calls them time collapses where it's like, holy shit, how is this all lining up exactly as it did 30 years ago today?

It's all these weird synchronicities. Anyway, Goddard's principle is that you can go back at any point that happened to you. Something painful, traumatic, scary, really that you would like to change vividly use this tool, imagine the scenario again from within your body and imagine it as you'd like it to be. I'm telling you, the only example I can give of this that I think is more useful than, you know, changing some time travel type thing is, there was something that happened in me and Alexis's relationship that caused a lot of trauma, a lot of problems for us and luckily we overcame. This is a topic that if it came up would be, holy shit, things are getting weird, uncomfortable and everything is comfortable for us almost all of the time.

Yeah. So I did this one day, went back, changed the situation, how I would have liked to acted, how I knew was the right approach. At night, it organically came up from her, not me. We had the best conversation we had ever looked like genuine healing took place. So if that principle again is true, that means we have the ability to go back and fix those things that are fucking us up, which we know we're kind of fucking us up and then clear that shit out, right? Do the Tibetan lucid dream and clear your karma out thing, clear that up and then get back to a blank slate and be like, all right, now what the fuck are we going to do here?

So I don't have to operate from these places of like fear and doubt and scared and all the shit. It's just, it's kind of crazy stuff that I just think it's ironic that you tip me off to Mitch, you tip me off to Goddard so I get to come back and tell you about this shit because I really, this thing is fucking powerful stuff, man. Well, yeah, it is, well, I mean, it is, it is very powerful and you know, I want to add now that I've done my fucking Buddha thing, I'll add to some non Buddhist just pure magical speculation stuff in my contemplation of these things, specifically like, so it's, it's kind of like one, here's a great question to ask, what, what can I not buy, like, what isn't, what can I buy?

Because the moment you kind of get in touch with whatever that may be, then you, you find it's really interesting, now you have a wall, right, because like there's a sort of, they say there's a wall around the Garden of Eden mythologically, of course. And so it's interesting, there's so many people in the world who can use money to like get over boundaries, political boundaries, neighborhood boundaries, vehicular boundaries, geospatial boundaries, but you can't use money, at least right now to say become a master pianist. You can't do that, you can't use money to become disciplined, for example, it doesn't matter if you have 50 trillion dollars, and you give it all to somebody, you're still going to be smoking cigarettes, if you can't stop smoking cigarettes, you're still going to be, and similarly like, you know, you can't use money to get yourself into like really good shape, you can use money to get a trainer, you can use money to get books, you can use money to get a therapist, blah, blah, blah, but you, you still got to fucking do the thing.

And so that means that what we have is these bubbles, these sort of like cloaked areas of reality that are surrounded by membranes that are not permeable by money, power, or status, but that are only permeable through a consistent practice of some kind or another, whether the practice is meditation, working out some form of magic, whatever you want to call it, there is a wall between you and the place where you have read that book, there's a wall between you and the place where you can speak Italian, there's a wall between etc, etc, on and on. So to me, in my thinking of these things, I like to think about it in terms of the different landscapes humans have experienced with the evolution of technology.

So we go from being walking to riding a horse, riding a horse, to riding a train, riding a train, to flying in planes, flying in planes, to going into space, right? And with each of these subsequent leaps forward, literally our reality has completely transformed. Now we know what the ground looks like from further up in the sky than any human before us ever went, who wasn't on a mountain. Now we know what the earth looks like from space and have yet again completely transformed the reality itself to the point where we might as well have entered into another part of the dream or another part of the multiverse, so to speak.

To me, what all of this stuff I think may be is the first phases of a new kind of, I guess, for lack of a better word, form of transit. And so in the same way that prior to being able to hop on a horse, you need to have an understanding of what it is to walk, what kind of terrain you're on and the ability to see a horse. If it's similarly, if you want to like fly, you're going to need a vehicle to fly in. And what I'm saying is it may be that in the way that we've been having this interesting relationship to the earth and the way we travel on it or above it, we also have an interesting relationship with this objective gravity well of our own identity and that through these practices, not only are we achieving our desires, but we're literally leaping from one universe to the next, the next, meaning that with every single one of these rituals that you successfully operate or conduct rather, you are not just bringing something to you, but you're literally teleporting time jumping, time leaping into a completely new dimension, meaning that you're going to start seeing things in onion skin layers of subtle difference, but potentially ultimately you could open your eyes and be in like the kingdom of Shumbala or some completely alternate dimension.

Okay. So let me tell you something that you just said there. I'm glad you eventually hit on the exact word that I use when I was doing it. And again, this was a period of like when I say 2003 and four, very crazy permeability. Everything was influencing it. I was keeping a crazy journal, numbers were popping up everywhere, just crazy amount of things. My friends can relate some of the things I was talking about, one of which was unconditional up, not related to what I'm about to say. So the one of the most poignant experiences I could remember would happen often is I felt like I was going through dimensions.

I kept saying to my friends, I can switch into different realities. I can move into different dimensions. And I think what you described not only works as a real world metaphor, but also again describes how did all of those things come into being, we'll leave out horses, but we can say that came from imagination. Someone imagined there should be something better than a horse. So they created the car in the train. Someone imagined that we could fly. So they imagined this thing. How did we even discover that time is relative? I'd find literally imagined himself on a bolt of light and was like, Oh, this is how things work.

So we have the operative principle there. And we also have this, what you're referring to, it's magical speculative, you call it. I think this is really what's happening. I think we are co doing this too. I don't want to make it sound like this is just this one individual trip that we all take. We are collectively dreaming these realities. We also have the ability as I see it to influence other people for better or worse, whatever that comes with. If I imagine you getting that mode and lots of people imagine you truly the way I'm describing it, Goddard says that's it's going to happen. It says without a doubt.

So if you can start using that principle and start spreading it out into the world at large, shit gets very weird. And I think that is exactly what you're describing, this moving through dimensions and moving through these realities with this operative power of realizing that's what you're doing and just choosing and selecting Shambhala, right? Well, listen, I don't, do I think Shambhala by us imagining it's going to happen tomorrow and we're going to wake up and world peace is going to be in order and everyone's enlightened? No, it's too big of a leap for me to really believe that right now. But can I imagine that when our kids have grandkids that just at the last second we averted ecological disaster, just at the last second, something changed and we got the thing that makes things better.

Not meaning we don't have to put in the actual work in this reality to do that. But that do I think that's a possibility? Fuck yeah, I wouldn't be having kids if I didn't because he would be just like inviting them into what looks like a health scape, right? Yeah, like give birth into a blender if you don't believe that, right? Just give birth into like a cave filled with wolves. If you don't believe that, if you believe that we're truly about to experience the end of time, you know, cynicism, of course, I think is one of the symptoms you've been cursed by a dark sorcerer. And that the first thing you have to do is alleviate that curse and like detoxify from fashionable attitudes that promote a kind of cynical attitude towards reality and the subsequent pessimism and ultimately a kind of aggressive attitude failed as some sort of, I don't know, like hard truth or hard reality or hard sense if this is the way things are.

And you know, man, again, it's like, well, before we got to the plane, we had to get on the horse. And I'll tell you this, I know for sure that the first person who looked at a horse is like, I don't know why that fucking thing, his friends were like, you're, then you're going to die. Don't remember what happened to Carl, you'll die. That thing will fucking kill you. If you ride it or you'll be cursed, they're no one rides horses because it's forbidden like lean or elder or whatever the fuck it is, right? All these stories about why you don't get on a horse and somebody's like, no, I don't give a fuck.

I'm getting on that horse and they somehow they did it. And then they rode into the village for the first time on a fucking horse. Look, I guess you were wrong. I guess Carl was a pussy. Right? And then history was made at that moment. And now we're riding around on horses and blah, blah, blah, blah. So first the horse. Now, in this case, especially when it comes to climate change and all this stuff, the horse, what I'm realizing the horse is, is this why I got this fucking goddamn thing? I don't want this. I like plastic. You know, I want to go to the thing, I want to drink sparkling water. I don't want flat water.

I like the bubble. You like bubble, bubbly, bubbly, but you know what, I don't like fucking animals dying because they got fucking plastic jammed in their throat. Food animals dying for that, but if I can't stop using plastic bottles, then I am giving permission to the entire planet to use plastic bottles. And we are truly in the apocalypse. So, and that is because personally, whatever the fucking thing is, you're doing that science is shown is fucking up the planet, whether it's your addiction to beef, whether you're using plastic bottles, wherever you fucking go, whether you don't recycle, whatever the fucking thing it is when you have a car, when you don't need one on and on and on and on.

If you truly have a wish for the planet to be better, good news, bad news, good news. You don't have to stress over other people. Bad news. If you fucking stop it, nobody's going to stop it and we're doomed. And based on the thing we're talking about here, my friend, which is perhaps there is the ability to travel through the onion skin layers of reality and eventually emerge into some utopian place, theoretically and definitely theoretically. If you stopped using plastic, if you stopped eating so much meat, if you stopped driving so much or at least driving in a car that doesn't use renewable energy, whatever the fucking thing is, then, and truly stopped it, you would literally travel into a dimension that was a little better than the one you were in when you were using plastic and you might expect to see synchronicities based around the practice, which I think one of the signs that you've conducted a successful ritual is the appearance of some synchronicity in the same way that, how do you know you started a fire, well, because there's smoke on fire.

You know what I mean? Yeah. These are the experience. It doesn't have to be a ritual chamber with a gnokian riding in the robes and the thing and that you can just start by being like, oh, let's see that happens if I don't fucking use plastic bottles for a month or drink booze for a month or eat beef for a month. And then all of a sudden you're like, wait, why are these coincidences happening? What the fuck is this? Well, guess what, in the same way the acceleration of riding on a horse must have been initially a magical feeling and in the same way the fucking insane sense of looking out of a train at the blurred trees because you're moving fast and you're moved to the overview effect that astronauts feel when they see the, you know, what pale blue dot or whatever, Sagan calls it.

Similarly, I think the exhilaration and the sort of attached epiphanies that happen when we make profound changes for the better in our own lives are a feeling of a new type of acceleration where we are feeling the rush of traveling, not from the earth on the earth faster up in the air, but literally the sense of exhilaration that comes from stepping from one realm into a completely different realm and that feeling manifests as the awe that comes from coincidences that just couldn't have happened or how could that be what we call miracles. Miracles are the wind in your face. You know, like when the dog sticks his face out the window is like, you know what I mean?

It's similar, except only in this case, you're not in the car traveling down the highway and you're not a dog. You're a magician traveling through the dimensions and the wind that you're feeling is the miraculous gradual ever accelerating realization that you're an eternal being with infinite power, I guess. It's fucking amazing dude. I mean, you, you are saying the things that could only make my heart sing in a specific way, dude, like this is just, it's perfect. And I really do think this is something that is entering our reality, whether we imagine it or not. I feel enough people sense this thing.

I don't know about you, I've seen a keen or interest from people in things like astrology and dreaming in these kind of more ancient esoteric things. And not just because they're on our Instagram feeds and people are sponsoring posts and trying to get together fucking things, but because I think this unconscious layer, what Jung would call the collective unconscious, right, is starting to kind of cross over a little bit and that operative power of what makes the unconscious create our reality again. I think if we can imagine that future where maybe like, I don't know if it's like you free with the water bottle, but I used to smoke cigarettes.

And until I knew I was done smoking cigarettes, I could have tried hundreds of thousands of times. I never would have stopped. But that second, I knew it was right. I stopped doing it. But if I could imagine myself now, not eating as much meat, because I know it's not bad for the planet. Imagine myself not doing it. See if that starts to seep in and rather because what I found, I was vegan for two and a half years, and I was a militant vegan, I was an asshole, people hated me. And they should have hated me because I was a piece of shit. I was just like the worst type of vegan and forcing my agenda on people.

Yeah. Guess what? As soon as I went on my honeymoon on Turks and Caicos and there was only beef, I'm fucking eating a hamburger. I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm a fucking asshole. So I realized that until you can get to that point where the thing that's supposed to happen happens and you're ready for it to happen, I go with the imagination. Let me give that that little nudge so I can get to that point a little bit easier so we can move into those realities where like, yeah, man, if we all got this, how hard is it to not get plastic bottles? Not that fucking hard. It's actually a pretty easy thing to do.

It isn't hard and but like, you know, the aside from all that stuff, it's like another way to put it with you. Listen, you and I are the right brothers and we are going to try to fly a plane. And I'm like, all right, let's do it first, you mind if I load the plane with my bags, I want to like load it up with like 200 pounds of shit. You're going to be like, no, man, I don't think that's going to help us fly. And so similarly, like, if you look back at pretty much all the world's religions, there is some general kind of principle of purification is what they call it, you know, and you hear that in the wrong way.

It sounds really oppressive and it can be, don't fuck, don't eat meat, don't spoke, shut up. I'm not going to do that, you oppressive fuck but because the reason behind it isn't so that you can literally travel into an alternate reality but because you want to like succumb to the oppressive patriarchal power of some priest class telling you how to live, which is really not very appealing to me or anyone and they're right fucking mine. But if someone were to come to you and say, hey, listen, here's the thing, I know this sounds absolutely insane but every single habit you have that is hurting you is actually hurting the entire universe because you're part of the universe as above so below.

And the more you put those habits aside, even temporarily, the more in the same way you cut the fucking bricks or whatever the bags from a hot air balloon, you're going to start levitating, not literally, unfortunately, but in a way a million times better than levitation, which is that you are going to start moving into states of reality that aren't just imaginary. People are going to come up to you that have been waiting for you to get there, so to speak, and they're going to give you stuff and tell you stuff and you're going to be part of something that's happening not just here but all over the entire universe, but first, unfortunately because we all want to drink the bubbles and eat the meat and do the thing because it's awesome, dude, I'm telling you, I can shit, but first, we don't know why you got to fucking put these things down because you can't get through the membrane with them in the same way that certain types of nutrients can't get into a cell because it's like, fuck you, it's a permeable membrane, stuff can come in, stuff can go up, it's certain shit can't go in.

Unfortunately, in this situation, this membrane that we're talking about here, which is cloaking an entire paradise reality, it seems like there's only a few ways through, and usually that involves some kind of purification, and within that, I think I can find a fuckload more passion for discipline than if someone's just like, "Do as I tell you!" In other words, if a spaceship landed and they're in a door opened and you're looking in and you're like, "My God, it looks cool in there," and they're like, "Hey, listen, want to fly instantaneously, not just through the universe, but through parallel dimensions, all you got to do is not smoke for a month, and we're going to let you in."

Are you going to keep smoking? No! Even though there will be smokers who are like, "Fuck you, Adam, you get sucked by dick, I like the dimension where I can smoke, motherfucking nerds!" But, you know, most people are going to be like, "You know what, I'm going to put it aside." And that, to me, is like, when I'm saying it, it sounds like I'm like making up a fairy tale, do the experiment, see what your dimension looks like in a month of a steady practice of this or that jogging. Yes. You know, I've even heard someone tell me in a movie, somebody was saying, "Every morning just take water, put it in a cup, and dump it in the toilet."

In other words, a completely absurd, repetitive task, see what kind of fucking universe you're in. So, cruelly, I think, would say things like, "You know what, for a month, don't let your left hand leave your side. Your left hand should always be at your side, you're just not going to use your arm for a month." Whatever it is, just try it and see what happens. Why the fuck is it that with any act of consistent discipline, there is an almost instantaneous surge of epiphanies, synchronicities, magical moments, and some kind of manifestation that seems to go outside of your normal, your idea of how reality works.

So, you know, just you got, but the problem is, it's like, you still have to do the thing to get on the spaceship, otherwise they're kidnapping you, and we all know what happens when aliens kidnap you. It's very much like that. Yeah. You're going to get broke. Two things come to mind when you're talking about this, related to discipline and kind of specifically, we're talking about meat and ecological things. So Goddard had a very kind of counterintuitive approach to this. He specifically said, "Doesn't matter, vegetarians will think you that it's about meat." Now, granted, he did not live with the awareness of an industrial agricultural system that's literally destroying the planet, so there wasn't that awareness, but his greater point was this, I think, which is all these acts of purification, they're nice.

They can be helpful. They can be good. But ultimately, what needs to happen with you as the individual is this samadimoment of recognizing, "I am that I am, that I am God." This thing is me. This is the only thing, when you're talking about these, he talks about this, these permeous kind of things that you can kind of bump up against, but if you don't drop the thing, you can't get through them. What he refers to as dropping the thing is this quote, what he would call the crucifixion, which is, "Jesus, our consciousness of God, being nailed to this human form," meaning that we can't until we drop that form and have that experience go through this thing.

He also talks about weird shit like people die all the time. He's like, "I've spoken to people who have died. They're not dead, but what happens when they die is they wake up just as a younger version of themselves and have to keep doing this thing," kind of like Nietzsche thought a little bit, which is to say that it's not this eternal kind of hellscape that you're going to run over and over, but that until you have this experience of waking up to the consciousness, it doesn't matter. Now, what I will say how that relates to the actual practical, yeah, you should probably stop eating as much meat if you like animals in our planet.

That's just like a good rational logical thing to do, is if that's your desire, imagine that happening, then all of these weird things will shift and slide into your life to make it actually achievable for you to do, rather than you consciously forcing yourself to do anything, I've just found every single time, whether I want money, whether I want love, whether I want food, whatever it is, if I willfully pursue it, just kind of blindly with no conscious awareness, it's a fucking nightmare. It's just like I bumping up against these walls constantly, even if I have the intention. If I'm not in this state of like, this thing is going to happen, I know this is what I want.

It's really my thing. I don't want to smoke anymore. That was truly my intention, not just as a felting, but I go through this experience of imagining what it would look like, what I tell my friends, what it would feel like. When you do that, then the circumstances rearrange themselves. So you're like, you know what? It's no big deal that I have to drink out of this bottle now. I don't have to intend myself to do it. I've done it. I'm there. It's already happened. And then the circumstances slot into place. That's kind of been the turnaround for me because I've done this same dance with purification in so many times, whether it's desires, whether it's ecology.

And whenever I force myself to do it and I know that I'm not ready for it, it's only temporary. Same thing I'd say with meditation. It just doesn't hold. And so this is why I've just kind of been approaching everything from this idea that that I am, that experience, that voice, not just our voice, but that I am, that imaginal voice is the creator of reality. You get a base level there, you can, I feel like this is kind of a weird place I'm in. I've always believed you've had to struggle. You need to polish that rock until it becomes a diamond. You need to do these practices. But if you get into the deep Zogchen practices of Tibetan Buddhism, what are they doing, man?

I don't know if you've gotten there with David yet. They're making you visualize these fucking petals and gurus and letters and all of these things. It's intense, imaginal creations and they're right it is. So the thing to me is is that I'm playing with this idea recently that it doesn't have to be hard. This isn't to say you don't need discipline. I think you do. This is discipline committing to a practice of imagining reality is fucking, you need a shit loaded discipline because what it also implies, what we've kind of alluded to here is also that everything is now your responsibility. You no longer can blame anyone for anything because you are now the narrator and creator of your reality.

So I don't know, I've just been playing around with this idea that maybe let's see, not that I'm going to alleviate all suffering. I think the Buddhists are right. This world is suffering, right? Jesus crucified to this world, this consciousness of mortal man is suffering. But can we make it better? Can we make it less suffering, right? Everybody forgets that, you know, people like David talks about, right, the first two nobles use of Buddhism and they all, then I don't want to talk about the last two. First it's, here's suffering, the truth of suffering, the last is here that you stop something.

Yes, yes. It's more more familiar with suffering. Now, speaking of suffering, not really, no, I got to get back to work. Yeah, of course, man. Oh, shit. I didn't even realize how long to swim. Well, I know I did, but it was such a exhilarating conversation, such an inspiring conversation that I wanted to continue with, you know, again, you're doing this magical work. It's contagious. It's, you know, you're carbonated right now. I love carbonated water, carbonated humans. And so it's like very like enlivening to me. And so I appreciate it so much. And I'm going to do a little try to do a little mode manifestation.

Yeah. Let's see if we can help that along. Dude. Thank you for your time. Get back to what you need to do. This has been awesome. Thank you, man. Please. I will. Thank you. Thanks for listening to that episode. Go check out Duncan out. Go check out Duncan out. That doesn't make sense. Go check out Duncan at his website, Duncan trussle.com, his podcast, Duncan trussle family hour. He does so many other cool things. You know where to find him. Go find them. They'll be links and such. A big thanks to poor Sigmatic and Ned for sponsoring this episode. And I will see you next week.