Writing Your Own Narrative with Michael Philliip

[Music] [Music] Welcome to Synchronicity. My guest this week is the host of Third Eyedrops. [Music] This is a nice fun way for me to catch up with Michael. We've both been respectively very busy. I think still are very busy, but always nice to catch up. We interact quite often on Facebook, mainly in the Cryptocier group where we like to prognosticate and debate which cryptocurrencies are the best. Tung in cheek and very seriously. This episode is fun and interesting because we just kind of get right into it and discuss what's going on with us and Michael brings up the topic of kind of fearing mediocrity and complacency and getting sucked into the idea of being comfortable as the main goal and kind of eschewing other creative passions.

And I think that's a really good topic to revisit time and time again because depending on where you are in your life that certainly can be something that you're faced with regardless of socioeconomic spectrum. Holding yourself accountable, kind of writing your own narrative is something that maybe when you use too much as a platitude but when you use the right amount can really turn into some positive change for yourself internally. So that's what this episode is kind of about. It's a fun one. We talk a lot about Kanye West. I'm a Kanye West fan. I know he's crazy. I know he's not rigorously analyzing the words he says and that he's very wrong about slavery and a lot of other things but I think Kanye West is a culturally significant figure. We also talk a little bit about Jordan Peterson but don't get into it.

Speaking of which, sometime over the summer I have a bet with Adam Summer from the Exploring Astrology Podcasts where we're going to debate Jordan Peterson, pros and cons. Mainly the cons guy on Jordan Peterson. Adam is a pro. I think he really doesn't say too much but Michael also likes Jordan Peterson and he is clear to say that he likes some of the ideas that he has the rigorously studied ones allegedly. Not the social commentary stuff that has gotten Jordan Peterson in a lot of trouble but in the same way the reason we bring them up and the reason they're brought up in this episode is there's some energy associated with both Jordan Peterson and Kanye West and Donald Trump that is just gripping. It makes people pay attention even if they know better or even if they don't want to pay attention.

There's something there and I think that's worth analyzing. So we do that. I forget what else we talk about. A lot of stuff. It's a fun episode. Really great catching up with Michael. Go check out Third Eye Drops. He's on Spotify, iTunes, all of the places you would want to listen to a podcast. If you're listening to this one you probably know about Third Eye Drops. If you're a Third Eye Drops listener listening to synchronicity for the first time, who would have thought you'd been kidding. Big thanks to Patrick Nemczyk who continues to be a producer level supporter on Patreon. If you want to become a patron, go ahead and do it.

Also for the people who have gotten in touch. You know who you are who couldn't afford or wasn't fiscally responsible for them to join crypto sync and merely reached out and asked me to work out some arrangement with them. How's that going? Hope you're enjoying it. So without further ado, let's just get right to the episode. Here is Michael. I'm not getting any younger and it's like I feel like at a certain point the fire dulls down and the mediocrity just swallows it up more and more and the complacency gets more and more attractive. And then suddenly you're like, well, you know, this is actually not bad. I can just, you know, I can make it good to some money and I can do this on the weekends. That's pretty cool.

But like, I mean, and maybe this is territory for like, actually recording, but I feel like, no, let's, I mean, we can record as soon as it's interesting. In your mind, we can start it. I like this idea of mediocrity and being fearful of it because I think it's, I think it's what everyone deals with. Listen, people talk about midlife crisis. If we now because of the inundation of said word being inundated with the social media barrage, this regular media barrage, like we're having crises on like a weekly daily basis at this point. I mean, and then one of those is obviously where do you fit in to this vast, large cultural landscape.

And like, how do you make sure that like, you know, not only do you get recognition and stand out for the validity of what you're doing, but also that you're adding something to the conversation to which is, I would love to hear your perspective on this because I think this is important. People, a lot of people deal with this shit. Yeah, I think, I think there are multifaceted failures on the part of society and culture at large, but upon each individual to, but not just each individual's like agency, like they didn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps, which, which means, you know, a variety of things depending on where you're starting block and life was obviously we're not talking about a level playing field here.

Yeah, but there is a certain amount of agency that you do need to exercise to get yourself there. So yes, I acknowledge the cultural failures in terms of like there is no, there is no like reflective time scheduled out in your life to decide what what's important to you for you to ask the big existential questions, unless you have like super cool parents or something that are going to push you in that direction and really cause you to go on some sort of existential like, uh, psychonautic exploration of your own mind and subconscious and value system. And since we don't have that, and since laziness is so pervasive and complacency is so pervasive and just floating through life is a real decent option at this point.

It is very easy to just become mediocre. And as I get older, that terrifies me, man, like the older I get, the more terrified I get of mediocrity, because I don't want to wake up. One day mid life and just be like, fuck, like what am I doing, you know, because to an extent I already feel like, you know, how much time has passed since you started synchronicity, how much time has passed since I started third eyedrops, or any other creative project. You know, like one of those things that, in a way, it's really cute, and it's actually a function of Facebook that I like when you see the anniversaries.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in another way, it's almost like a microaggression against yourself because it's like, oh, like, like Corey Allen, I became friends with Corey Allen two years ago. And it's like, oh my God, it's been two years, you know, and it's like, to me, it seems like I met that dude yesterday. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Well, there's there's multiple things you touch on there. One is this idea. Here's what I would say that that terrifying feeling that terror that you experience. I don't know if it's necessarily of mediocrity. There is an interesting concept to be analyzed there.

But I think what most people encounter is the terror that comes from not pursuing what you feel like you should be pursuing. And where that crosses over and it becomes absolutely unbearable is, I think, a very crucial point in everyone's life. If they hit that now, a lot of people in a lot of different ways can push that off forever in a lifespan. That happens quite often. And I think it's a tragedy. And I think that's one of the worst things that kind of our culture enables in a lot of ways. So yeah, I mean, I get that. But mediocrity is a definitely like, that's also a very interesting concept because like, that's relative to other things that are going on. And I think, you know, I'm sure you found this in the podcast. Like, this happens to me often where like, I'll put out an episode.

And I'm relatively convinced that it's not, it's not great. Like, I didn't think like this was one of my stronger episodes. And then inevitably, I'll get like a ton of positive feedback on that episode. I'm like, yeah, yeah, that has happened for sure. Yeah. And it's like, what is, it's like a really like, I really want to put this thing out. And I think what it is is you get to this point where your ego is like, Hey, you know, this isn't really your best work. It's not the interview. It didn't buy the way or whatever it is. And really, it's not about that. It's about something else that people are relating to. And long as it has like, veracity and truth embedded in it, people seem to respond to that, which to me is fascinating.

And it's also I've come to appreciate this in works of art that maybe I don't love and resonate with. And I'm like, Oh, I'm going to listen to that again, or I'm going to look at that over and over. But I'm like, huh, I kind of get what that is. It's not my favorite. I'm not like vibing in a certain way. So I think that is kind of what's embedded into this existential fear that we're kind of just coasting or not doing that. Because I think, and this doesn't mean you have to be an artist and you have to put out content or whatever it is, but not pursuing that thing that you really want to pursue.

That's a scary thing. That's a scary thing. Yeah. Well, well, each thing you do as a human being has an inherent amount of risk in it. You know, like each time you sit down for a podcast where it's free flowing and unscripted, it's a gambit to an extent, like each drawing you do if you're an artist is a gambit to an extent. You got to give it like an earnest swing. And then there's always the tug of war between, is this good enough to publish or is it not? But the nice thing about holding yourself to a schedule as a podcaster is it's just that you expect yourself to put an episode out every week or twice a week or once a month or whatever. So within that, it's kind of like, you know what, you polish the turd and get it out there, even if it is a little bit of a turd.

But yeah, man, not everything is a masterpiece and some things are surprise masterpieces. And I think that's okay. And at the end of the day, I 100% feel much more satisfied with taking the swing than not. You know, like, I don't think I've ever been like, wow, I'm super glad I didn't put anything out this week. I'm super glad I was just, I just put off that email or whatever, you know, it's like, and I think that's what I mean by mediocrity. It's not like a sis. Yeah, there's there's woven into that to an extent is always the perception of others, but my own barometer of mediocrity is really what I care about, you know, knowing, you know, I probably should have done this today.

You know, I probably should have went for that run even though I was tired. I probably, you know, should have worked on that article, even though I wasn't feeling like it. Those are the types of things that no, you know, those are the type of things that you're laying back and you're just like, what am I doing? I mean, but the thing is, is how much of that also is a lesson that can be learned, like, oh, I wish I would have done that and then potentially implemented, or just coming to terms with like, oh, I can't do that. Like, I'm sure you've you've been bumping up against this with your new responsibilities of work and stuff like, and I learned it from having a kid, like, man shit falls by the wayside so fast, like it's just not it's just for me, like my priorities two years ago.

Like, I was astonished that people couldn't, like, right back in a timely fashion for emails. I was like, oh, my God, those people are super rude, even though I have the mail track thing and I can see people like I've even lacks on that because I open emails all the time. And I'm like, I'll respond to that in a few days. Like, there's no way I'm getting to it. So I wonder, like, how much is the idea of mediocrity embedded into this idea of performing to your expectations or what you could have been doing? It's like the Schindler's list of, like, responsibilities. Oh, like, if I only I would have done this, I could have done that. Like, where are you setting that line, like, internally for yourself?

Do you consider yourself an analytical person? To some extent, but I, I'm so, I can so easily throw out rationality that it's hard for me to, like, fall directly into the analytical categories. I mean, I don't really traditionally consider myself analytical. And you know how there's kind of a debate out there about, like, double down on your strengths or, no, strengthen your weaknesses. I've heard this. Yeah. I mean, you, if you're a person like you or I, I think if we're going to dumb this down into extremely simplistic psychological models, like, if you've ever taken a disk exam or a, there's various versions of that, where it tells you whether you're dominantly analytical or expressive or amiable or driving or whatever, you and I, I think, are both in the expressive category. Yeah. And sure, you can, you have a peripheral amount of everything else.

But I don't see how I'm ever going to function at my peak without trying to get better at my organizational analytical skills unless you're going to have somebody who's taking care of that shit for you. You're going to, like, hire an assistant. Because to me, like, all these things that we're talking about, emails, feeling like I need to stay healthy and work out and get podcasts out and do these things. There's no way that's not just going to be a big chaotic mess in my mind unless I'm organizing it, unless I'm getting analytical with it. So I feel like that's another key part to just, like, placing these things in, I mean, you have to create a hierarchy, and otherwise that this whole kind of loose conversation about mediocrity just stays kind of squishy.

You know, it's like you have to have your, I have to do these things, and then everything else I'll make a best effort at. I feel like that's, that's sort of a good baseline or something. Like how you're going to prioritize those things. I mean, I guess, do you consider yourself an organized person? No, no, I don't either. I see this is, I've forced myself to be organized before. And I wish I could say it achieved better results for me than being not organized. And I'm not like a total mess. Sometimes I feel like a total mess, but I'm way more organized even now than I was like 10 years ago, or it's just like, oh my god, like this is disaster zone.

But I found that even when I kind of forced myself to follow a structure, I may get more shit done, but I'm not necessarily more productive, and I'm not necessarily hitting like the level of focus or energy into the things I want to be doing because I'm organized. And this is, I know what you're saying like, dude, listen, the irony is, is now like, and I'm tweeting this shit out is basically like, I'm over fucking emails. I'm over fucking scheduling like, you know, calendar events and like, obviously we have to do it for the podcast and I do it every week, but I'm just like, this shit sucks. Like, I don't really want to do it anymore. And one of the things that kind of got me to this point, and it could be just, I could be, and I confront this just so people don't think I'm totally insane.

I confront this every day. I could be delusional related to crypto. I could be like, oh my god, I'm putting all my eggs in one basket, and this thing could just be a total speculative bubble and I could have totally fucked up. But I at least know my liquidity buys me about a year. That's what it seems like. And so what I've been doing is basically, fuck it. If this is really what I have, let's say it's only this year before I have to confront whatever level of reality that I don't want to because it interferes with my view of how things should go, I have this year to do it. And I'm using that kind of as the lever to like, give me my opportunity to focus on what I do for the past five, ten years.

Probably the equation in my head was, got to make money so I can have the time and space to do what I want to do, which is art, you know, music, now add podcasting, whatever it is. And then that shit basically happened, like the end of last year, you know where it was when I was like, alright, I can replace my income at least for a year here. And as soon as that happened, inevitably the universe, and we've spoken about this too. I say the universe lately here. But it seems like whenever you're trying to make a very serious change in reality, very serious change. Many things conspire against you to prevent that that seemingly are outside of your realm of control. Like sure, and now I could look back and I could say, okay, well what happened here was I got the opportunity to do the shit and then all of a sudden my family responsibilities jacked up to a fever pitch so I couldn't do it there and that was kind of my option.

I maybe could have done something else, but I couldn't. I was kind of locked into this. But now as we're speaking right now, like this is why we're speaking, I actually have time flexibility. Like I'm beginning this actually next transitional phase and I remember us speaking about this related to like the podcast, both publicly and privately about how we wanted this to fit in into like how much revenue we were making or passive income. I'm telling you, man, like I think it's one of those things that even if you get pushed off the ledge, once you kind of make this internal decision. That's what it is. That's why, you know, before we started recording here where we're going to go into it, we were talking about this related to your job, just because I do think it's important like that outside of perspective, your internal thresholds, not only for your internal mediocrity, whatever that conceptually is, but also your external level of support. Like are these things, do we think they're fixed? Do we think there are mental constructs or do we think they're like outside rules that we basically have to kind of account for?

Can you rephrase that? I'm not sure I quite understand. So like our idea of what we would need to feel comfortable for taking a gamble. Do we think that this is something that is somehow measurable and objectively like, yeah, this is a level we need to make this a decision that we can make. See, I think this is a key reason where like the putting some sort of a lasso around chaos comes into play. And this is why I really think you'd like this contemporary philosopher named Jordan Peterson. Oh, God, can we please talk about him? Can we talk? Yeah, no, we should. We should. And I'm joking because I know you hate him. I hate him. I just, but yeah, we had to talk about it. Yeah. So I mean, like, and he does, he does talk about this and that's why I made this joke. But, but, uh, being a person who's not usually analytical being someone who's not very system oriented.

And I realized that if I'm going to jump ship from regular stable, what is the best income in my life, there needs to be processes to slide into immediately. There needs to be as soon as I make this exit. I'm building this, this, this, and this. And cushion, I need to be at like this level by this time and this level by this time and have very concrete goals that I can reach that I can start taking direct straight line steps toward not just well maybe I'll try a little patreon and maybe go to podcast. Right. Because if I do that, I'm fucked. I know, I know my, I know what I'll do. So, so I, yes, I do think that it is, it is objective. Of course, within any creative endeavor within any business venture, there's going to be unforeseen circumstances and you have to adapt to those on the fly and whatever.

But what I do think for me that like to my success, that's going to be key because I will be doing this full time within six months or a year. And when that's happening. I know that I'm going to do it. If you think I'm crazy right now for cramming everything into my days that I cram into my days, I'm probably going to be an insane person. Yeah. I'm probably not going to have any patience for people's like bullshit or laziness or my own bullshit or laziness and I honestly hope that I do get that way because I feel like that's what's going to be necessary for success. And I think, I think I've been too loose with myself through a lot of my life and I'm not going to be one to like call the, like be the pot calling the kettle black or whatever the fuck that phrases. Like, but I think a lot of people are in that situation and I don't think you should lie to yourself or make excuses for that. And I also don't think you should feel bad for it. I think you should just act on it. Like if you're feeling like you're passing the blame for your lack of whatever off to some external circumstance, take a hard realistic look at that. Take a hard realistic at the elements of chaos and failure in your life and it really ask yourself how much of that is your own fault or how much of that you could have changed by trying harder or by getting your shit in order a little sooner.

Yeah. And I think that's, that's really fucking important because, and I think there's, there's two different ways we can look at this. There's the internal and I think ultimately 100% valid way of looking at this is essentially the psychological, spiritual, whatever you want to call it, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, which anyone can do in any position. And then there's the relative culturally dualistic world where yes, you're not necessarily going to turn yourself into a multi-millionaire because you pulled yourself up and that's going to happen. Right away, but that's not really what this is about. It's about holding yourself accountable. And I think that is something that everyone and everyone knows this. This is where I think people fall into the trap.

Everyone knows they can be doing a better job in some aspect of their life. Now, where I think a lot of people have trouble is recognizing where that's actually validly applicable. Does this really make a difference for me? Is this really where I should be putting my energy? And also the other thing that people have trouble with and when I say people, myself and everyone, is being too harshly critical, thereby either avoiding it or just completely suppressing it because you don't like some area of your life. And everyone has this. And this is why people go to therapy. This is why people microdose, like ducks, there's any number of modalities. You can use to kind of alleviate these or deal with them.

But it's something that I think to get back to the root of this is that if there's something that kind of numbs you to that visceral feeling of being like, "I got to do this shit. I really got to do this shit." That can be a tricky road to go on. And I think a lot of people realize that much too late. And I think this is maybe one of the potential benefits of kind of the technological landscape we live in. We're more exposed to that. Now, the wrong approach, like you said, is like recognizing that and then just collapsing into yourself or just writing it off as hopeless and being nihilistic about it.

The correct approach is be like, "All right, listen, I'm getting constant reminders all the time that I could be doing something that is more aligned with what I'm doing. If I have the opportunity to pursue that." I mean, I think that this is a lot of things people do this with kids. Like, no one who has kids, as far as I know, was ever like, "You know what? This is the perfect time. Like, we've mapped it all out. This is what we're going to do. We know exactly what this experience is going to be. And therefore, we're going to do it." No one goes through that thought process. Everyone is kind of just like, "Yeah, maybe it seems like a good time. Maybe it doesn't." But just like, "All right, fuck it. Let's get this a shot."

And that mentality, I think, is really, it's given less value in our culture than it should be. Taking that leap sometimes, that reckless, careless leap isn't always a good idea, but it does have validity nonetheless. That's the chaotic thing you're talking about, too. Tell me what Jordan Peterson, please. You can't tease the man's name. Well, dude, this is what it is. This is what it is. I mean, nobody ever writes a story about some sort of huge existential archetypical threat where there's a village of people at the mercy of whatever this thing is, this dragon, let's say, right? Nobody ever writes a story about the lazy farmer who didn't go to battle. Nobody ever writes a story about the guy who's like, "You know what? I don't think so. I think I'll just stay here where it's safe."

I kind of want to hear that, guys. When I know that it's like the equivalence in my life to that dragon is mediocrity and inaction. I want to fucking charge headfirst, blade drawn into the fucking dragonfire, man. And if I get burnt to a crisp in the process, great. That's better than had pretty good harvest this year. Do the same thing next year. Do the same thing next year, then I'll be dead. It's like, I don't want to be that person. And those are the elements of Peterson's philosophy that excite me. The social stuff doesn't really excite me. The political stuff doesn't really excite me. The sort of divisive stuff doesn't excite me.

Some of the more archetypical conversations he likes to have about the nature of language, logos, the mind, the subconscious, the hero's journey, controlling as much of your life and your spirit and your own battle as you can. That's the stuff that excites me. I do like that ass. I mean, Jordan Peterson was brought up to me. I think not the first time, but a very early time was at the, the mind wave thing we did. So not that long ago. That's pretty long ago. I'm not sure if I was even aware of him then. Yeah, I hadn't really heard you said some Canadian guy. You should look into his stuff. And this was before, I think, the controversy where I was like, "Oh my God, what are you doing?" And I think he had been on Rogan maybe once or something like he wasn't like he had really crossed over into most people's consciousness.

And I watched this thing and I was like, "You know what? Seems like he's got some decent things to say. Seems fairly on point." But then what started to trouble me about him is it became clear that it just seemed to me like his ego just started driving the ship. As soon as the controversial kind of stance where he took with the transgender people, and to me, this is where things get, this is where maybe I cherry pick because I was having a very interesting conversation with Adam Summer from exploring astrology podcast about Kanye and Jordan Peterson. He hates Kanye. I love Kanye. I was going to say real quick, Kanye, genius or idiot. Okay, I think that that is, let me put it this way. I go Kanye mystic or intellectual. To me, Kanye is the clear archetypal mystic cultural shaman.

This motherfucker feels everything. He makes the misapprehension that his reality is everyone's reality. Also, what I love about Kanye is it seems like when he is a thought, he genuinely believes that he's the first person to ever have that thought, which I find endearing. If you take it seriously, it's completely annoying and narcissistic, but I think you have to recognize something about Kanye West. And this is apparent to anyone who really appreciates his music is like, this you clearly, at least when it comes to the artistic sound medium, is tapped into some otherworldly shit. That is not something you just pry lose from studying your medium and craft. He really is plugged into something. So I think, unfortunately, we have a really sensitive, creative, hyper manic at times person thrusting the nexus of cultural, spiritual, and actual materialistic society.

And what you have is unfortunately the results and not to mention God knows what it's like to be black in that position too, just like a completely another fucking wildcard to deal with. So I think I'm very forgiving of what he does while also recognizing that the cultures and the people that he actually affects by saying some of the things he does. This is related to the Trump shit. He needs to be more mindful of. Luckily, it seems like he's got people like John Legend and other people barking in his ear being like, dude, what the fuck is the matter with you? Like, don't say that shit. So to me, I put Kanye in the mystic category. I think where people get in trouble with him is they start analyzing from an intellectual level where he's like, literally a dumb ass.

So, you know, I love Kanye. I really think his music is still amazing. I think that he's a valid cultural archetype, just like Trump is. I may not like every move he makes, but I think he's certainly on the less harmful side of someone compared to Trump. Whereas Peterson, what freaks me out about him is, man, this guy's got some people believe in a lot of stuff, some of which is totally okay. Some of which, if you're wise enough and you can pluck out and just leave away the uncompassionate stuff and things that just really are, you know, very clever, clever, semantic and erratic ways of analyzing things. I think he's fucking a lot of people up. And I see this huge divide on Facebook of, I don't know anyone who seems like they're getting fucked up. But if you go to it, like, you know, if you do your due diligence on any either side of this argument, like there are a lot of angry people about that he's well.

I think the one thing I'm going to somehow tie together, Jordan Peterson and Donald Trump and Kanye West believe it or not right now, is that they all understand how to play with fire. They all understand how to wield a really scary force and get people to be like, whoa, what the fuck are you doing with that? Yes, yes, yes. And it gets attention. The differences is like, if you read like maps of meaning, Peterson's first book or try to, it is a heavy, heavy work of philosophy that is like no joke. Yeah, yeah. He's not. Yeah. He's not like so packed. They don't want to get that. Yeah, right. Right. Right. And, and I think the differences is like, that's a sharp spear.

Whereas you have people like Donald Trump and Kanye West like wildly swinging like a club around not knowing like what the fuck is going on. And if they get attention for bashing a baby over the head in the process, they'll say, yeah, exactly. Like, and then somehow half the population like, yeah, great point, you know, I don't know, but no, but that's really a great point. But, but yeah, you took the words out of my mouth when you said that, like, when you're trying to describe Kanye's sort of mystical angle, when you said narcissistic because as soon as you said mystical, I thought narcissistic because you could, you could say that all of those same qualities like him thinking that his reality is everyone's reality. Yeah, him thinking that his opinion is valid on the level of the most potent intellectual.

Right. That's, that's to me is not a mystic. That's like a possibly a sociopath, but definitely a narcissist. And although, yeah, I mean, the dude clearly has some artistic acumen. I don't know now. You know, you know how there's like that young raw fire, like that that an artist has, and then the question is always how far can they carry that, and can they transmute it into something where it becomes like wise like they like if they don't have the raw fire anymore. But now they have some sort of wisdom. It's like every every record that that Jay Z releases, for example, like he's transcended to the level of this dude has wisdom.

Yeah, absolutely. I don't feel that with Kanye West. I think that's what he wants. I think that's what he wants. I think he wants to be like, even the words he uses like I watched part of that that TMZ interview he did where he said slavery was a choice just to see like how did we get here. I gotta know. Yeah, of course. He's wielding the buyer. Yeah. And you know what it is, man. It's a bad podcast. It's like a it's like him like stringing together a bunch of really buzzy words like like matrix and slavery and all these things. And it's just like he doesn't ever finish a thought. He doesn't ever tie a bow around anything. He just kind of rambles about stuff until people are like, hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait.

And it gets a headline. And maybe that's what he's trying to do. I don't know. Maybe. And I don't think it is. I don't think he's in control of this. Like, I don't think Trump is, I think Peterson is more in control and I'll get back to that. But I do think Kanye. Imagine this. Imagine this reality. And I tweeted this and I really do wonder. It's like, when do we think he took LSD? Like, when do we think that was? Do we think it was in the past three weeks? Has he ever taken it? Do we think it was in the past year? I think he needs it. So here's, here's what I say to this. Imagine you do some type of psychedelic or you have some type of transcendental experience brought on by anything and then you wake up from this and you're Kanye West and your platform actually is the entire world.

This brief flash of, oh, I am everything. I'm connected with the universe, but you are still now a key node if we're going to use the, you know, like blockchains. You're up, you're up major node in this network. Like your voice reaches far. People react to what you're saying. I think that's got to be probably one of the hardest positions to be in as someone who, if there's one thing we could admit about Kanye, I don't think anyone is thinking that this guy is going after these interviews and going back into like an evil chair and like being a cold, calculating, menacing person. Like, he seems like he has little to no control over the words that come out of his mouth and when he does things.

And it seems like he's probably in a family environment that doesn't seem like it's really trying to help him in the best possible ways. And this is all, you know, psychoanalytical babble. But I am very forgiving for his position because I have experienced similar things in terms of what his thought process seems to be now where he seems to be realizing for the first time. Or very, you know, and this is when he's talking about his, his, the doctor who killed his mom. He's talking about putting him on the album. He wants love and forgiveness. There's no idea what you're talking about. Okay, so this is, this is when he first got back on Twitter recently. And it was a bang. He started talking about love and like how everyone just needs to love everyone.

And the reason he supports Trump is because we can't hate him. That's not an energy that's going to work. And you know, and everyone's like, all right, Kanye is being fucking weird again. And then he starts talking about putting the plastic surgeon who was responsible for his mother's death on his next album cover. He's like, I want to put this guy. Yeah, he's like, I forgive him. Like, I love him. Yeah, like, you know, but he's trying. This is like someone who's been burned by someone, but they find some spiritual path. And they're like, I gotta love this person so much. And then inevitably, like if they do it in that person's like a sociopath, like they get burned again, they learn the lesson. That's not exactly how it works.

So it's, it's interesting watching him go through this kind of, it seems like reburthing period in terms of recognizing that it's not just him, but he's trying to express it through his limited kind of child like narcissism, which is clear. I don't want to deprive. It's not like I think this guy isn't a narcissist. He is. But I also recognize that he's tapping into something and trying. It seems to utilize it for some sense of good. Now, his intellectual and conceptual acumen. It seems like about any basic shit is just bad. Like, it's like, it's like, if you met like someone and had a conversation with them, like, out, you really are. I gotta get out of this conversation.

There's no way this is going to end up well for anyone. Like, it's not happening. So I'm pretty forgiving with him just because I don't think he's controlled, but I do think he's this very interesting archetypal figure who is, I would put him in like the mystical category because he's certainly not rational. He's certainly not calculating. He's certainly not like, despite his best efforts to be. He's like, you said, he's wielding a club. Like, he's, you know what I mean? I feel like the word mystical here is like becoming a proxy for having some sort of like disability. Like, it'll be a new like your son is missing.

I have great news. Yeah, he's not good at that. But he's very mystical. Like, it's huge. I only use it in the sense that I notice a lot of prominent artists. More so these days have a tremendous kind of handicap and recognizing, you know, broader conceptual realities, which I understand. Like, if all of a sudden you're plucked in, like, if you read about anyone's like journey from being not famous to famous. Anyone who really can reflect on that. Like, they're like, yo, like you think you can know what it's like and people think that this is something they want. But when you lose your anonymity, your entire world changes.

It's not the same as you remember it. And I think that psychological pressure truthfully is something that the vast majority of people just are completely not ready for. I mean, you can see that you watched it wild, wild country, right? I think that's what Kanye is like, that's where in his mind, he needs to get to the Osho level to realize that she ain't going to work, my friend. Like, he's thinking that his broader influence on mass consciousness is enough to change minds in and of itself, rather than recognizing the fundamental truth, which is everyone comes to this realization at some point, it starts with you.

If you just come from that fucking space, that will emanate outwards. It's not like you have to, like, get the message packaged up perfectly and convey the truth in the perfect amount of words. That's not, that doesn't work. Like, if it did, everyone would be perfect right now because someone would have packaged it already. So I think that's, that's, I'm pretty afraid. Yeah, you know, it's like, he's not portraying anything real. Like, he's experienced a real journey. His life has been an insane roller coaster, like you pointed out, going from, I don't know, like what his upbringing was if he was extremely poor, middle class or whatever.

But regardless, going from anonymity, like you said, to being one of the most iconic superstar household name rappers in the world, that has to be an extremely strange psychological exercise and weird bubble of reality to live in that I can't conceive of. But the thing is, is he's not, like, like you're saying, he could be using that platform to present positivity to people, to present motivation to people, inspiration to people, like, you know, he could be. Imagine if he were like Joe Roganning on his level, you know, if he was just like constantly being like, showing what he was doing for his health, like encouraging people to read this book, listen to this scientist, whatever, like, if we had a Kanye level of celebrity doing, like, encouraging people to take sovereignty over their own life and explore the mysteries of the universe, that would be great. But it seems like he's more concerned with just going on these really weird, masturbatory, narcissistic rants than anything else.

And it's like, because it's like, man, what more do you, like, clearly he, like, needs attention. He's like an attention vampire kind of like Trump is. And it's like, man, what, like, what more do you need? What more do you think you're going to get by getting this attention? And maybe it's money. I don't know. Or maybe it's just like that he's addicted to it. Like, it's like, it's his version of a dopamine rush or whatever. It's like, for him doing that is like, it is for us like scrolling through Facebook and like posting in our groups or something. Yeah, no, it is. That's what I think it really is. It's like, we just don't, his platform is such that that's normal to him in some sense.

I also think this is probably the period before someone like Kanye, if not Kanye, really does start to speak about some of the things you mentioned in terms of the sovereignty of our own minds and what we should be allowed to think and do and experience in the world. I really do get the sense that we're closer and closer. I'm looking at someone, you know, I haven't really paid a tremendous amount of attention to him, but Elon Musk. And here's my Elon Musk journey, just because I literally, because I have to be weird about it. I recently, I've always enjoyed her music. I've always thought she's really cool.

Oh, Grimes. No, Grimes is awesome, but I'll get you the Grimes connection. I'm really rediscovering my love, especially with her latest album for Janelle Monet. Janelle Monet is really, really fucking talented, and it's a very accomplished musician and wrote all the songs on her new album. It's just like legitimately good. She's now buddy buddy with Grimes. They're like best friends. She's on like one of the songs. They were hanging out all the time. And now, as you know, Elon Musk is dating Grimes, right? That shit is cool as fuck now. The weird wild thread I saw our buddy Jason Louvre tweet this, Grimes is a huge occult esoteric fan. She loves one of his books.

So we know there's some weird shit going on between Elon Musk and Grimes. They're not talking about nothing. That's not just like some, oh, I think you're pretty. Oh, I think you're cool. There's some shit going on there. I got to tell you a really weird story. I'm kind of like, it's sort of unfortunate that I'm repeating this because it's beyond speculation. No, it's fine. And it's like third hand. But someone that I know that you also know, I'll leave it at that. And it's not like no well. It's like, you know, like cursory said that they were on a psychedelic at a festival and Grimes was performing and they could see some sort of like satanic looking like script coming out of her mouth.

Amazing. And I looked at him and I'm like, okay, you know, it's just like, what are you supposed to say when somebody tells you that? And it looked like, do you give me a write it down? Let's try to reference this. Yeah, like some, some a no key and like, yeah, I don't know man. But I'll, I'll, I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it at that. But every time I hear that name now for obvious reasons, I think of that story and I'm just like, the meme is spreading and I'm sure it'll spread from this. I mean, to me to underscore this is I do think it's almost tried to say it at this point. It's almost like saying that we're going through some heavy transitional period or things are ramping up or these are weird times feels passé to say that at this point.

But I do think like, and I'm sure we can both appreciate this, if there was a technical analysis of what's going on with consciousness, it seems like the triangles are definitely intersecting in the near future and we're going to need a breakout in a direction or other. And I think that breakout essentially is going to be into a much weirder fluid much. I don't know the right word for it, but it is going to fundamentally change the way a lot of things work in the way that the internet did. And I don't mean this is going to be like some apocalyptic overnight. Holy shit, everything is different. It's probably going to be more to the effect. Like, remember what was like before the internet? Yeah, yeah, like when we were kids, like a completely different reality, like eventually it's just going to seem like, okay, this is how it is.

And it's not going to be like, we like to imagine it like, you know, some big fucking event, but I think in terms to bring this back to what we're talking about, I think we're going to get people who have large access to mass consciousness start to begin to talk about some of these things and start to weave some of these things in. And then the flip side of this is, is that just something that's not done. It's if you do you have access to these levels of consciousness and you've studied some level of esotericism or philosophy or whatever. And it seems like you one must probably has. Do you just not overtly or explicitly talk about these things for a reason. So, you know, there's a lot of different ways to look at it.

I'm not okay so what are these triangles you speak of? I'm not sure I'm not sure I fully picked up what you put down there. So like in technical analysis, you'll see, you know, they'll take an ascending peak of something and a descending peak of something and those will be converging, right? And so for this in my triangle and if we're putting labels on these things, one would be this kind of chaos of uncertainty being the descending part of the triangle and then the ascending one would be, no, let me reverse that. The descending one would be consensus reality, really the scientific materialism that's dictated the past rationality of the past however many hundreds, it's not thousands of years. And the ascending part of the triangle from the lowest peak going up would be this weird kind of, let's say it was used the word mystical can kind of irrationality, chaotic kind of okay, psyche and matter are overtly observed as being connected rather than speculated upon. I feel that we're getting to a point where what happens in technical analysis is these lines intersect at some point in the future and as these ups and downs and oscillations happen within these two lines, eventually a point is going to happen when it gets to the end of it. Does it go up or does it go down?

There's various ways you can look at this and whether this validity for this aspect of technical analysis, but very often those lines, there will be a major move up or down. It's just, you know, some based on notchy levels, all these things. To me, it feels like that point, if it's not already happened, is we will be breaking out, but towards the upward trajectory of things making lessons rationally, making lessons analytically. And I think that will be propelled by something we were speaking about, which is this idea that people with access to mass consciousness will start floating memes and other things out there that are subversive to the way realities work, not to be inherently subversive, but as a reflection of something that's already transpired.

So it sounds a little bit like the tension between the objective and the subjective world and how then that flows out into touchable reality and into technology and into the way people experience phenomena. And I think, I think to an extent, you're, you're right in that things just sort of happen. And then, and then you don't realize happening until they've already happened. Like you don't like the internet, for example, I don't think anybody understood the tectonic nuclear impact on consciousness that it would have until it was already there. You know, until it was like you literally almost can't imagine your life without social media without a smartphone. It's just, it's just something that suddenly happens. It, it creeps in sort of slowly and then suddenly there's some sort of exponential mycelial explosion there. It's just now it's everywhere. And you're like, Oh, yeah, it became pervasive. Like, like, how long did it take for the smartphone to become pervasive? I mean, it was like 10 years.

Oh, not even. I mean, for me, for me, it seemed like the iPhone four. It was like whenever the iPhone four came out. Yeah, that was my first iPhone. Me too. Me too. And it seemed like that was the moment. It was that then it was just, it suddenly just seemed like, you know, there was like a trickle and then a sprinkle and then just like a deluge. It didn't go like it. With like parabolic, you know, like, kind of like cryptocurrency is doing now. And I think I do think that that has a really profound impact on the way people look at reality too. Because I mean, dude, think about the conversations you had surrounding Bitcoin or something two or three years ago.

You're you're still kind of like a weird mad man. No one would listen to me. Toiling around like a like a like it's some sort of techno hermit. And you know, like, I remember, I know I've told this story before, but I remember trying to explain it to my stepdad and him just firing all these questions at me. And then me having enough wherewithal to kind of explain it in a way that made sense to him. And finally, by the time the conversation, and he's like, All right, I'll give you a thousand bucks. Yeah, exactly. And then, and then a couple years later, I'm like, here's $10,000. And he was like, what, what's that I'm like, yep, you know, well, like, that's, that's why we're this stuff converges.

And this is where I annoy a certain percentage of my podcast audience and when I try to branch these things off as much as possible. So that's why I basically full throttle went gung hoe into cryptocurrency, not only because of the experience of, you know, doing well in this space, but recognizing that it exposes very quickly. One of the strongest attachments or versions anyone can have in Western society, which is your attachment or version of money. Shit, and I've said this multiple times and I probably believe it almost fully, not completely. I view this shit as a spiritual tool. It's a barometer.

This thing taught me more about my up and down emotions in six months than me trying to meditate for five, six years. I'm not saying it's a more valid tool for everyone. I'm not saying it's better than meditation. Thank you. I've learned how to temper my expectations and patience and emotions through the market by recognizing, you know, my God, like this is something that I should take somewhat seriously, but not to the point where it's going to destroy my sanity. Because that's not a fair exchange. I recognize that at the beginning. It's going to be an incredibly useful tool for people excluding the potential of what you mentioned that this can fundamentally change people's lives in terms of financial outlook. That is just the monkey wrench and all of this.

So that's one of the components I see being a large part of kind of this, this, this really fundamentally kind of cat, this big shift that will seem like it just naturally happened. But to me is already well underway. And it's like kind of once you've taken that blue pill or red pill, which one is the blue pill, when you take the pill that you go out of the matrix, she just starts looking really different like something this happened to me. I haven't got a way around, but that's okay. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Well, a minor minor detail, whether you stay trapped in mental slavery or not, just the minor detail.

But for me, one of the things that's been really interesting is, is especially with this podcast is as soon as I didn't need an external source of income through working with other people, and this may not last. I'm not completely delusional. I started to prioritize like what I wanted to do for real. It wasn't like, Hey, I have to do this to do this. Once I did that, man, it got a lot easier to say no to people. It got a lot easier to say yes to things. It got a lot easier to prioritize relationships and things in my life. And I think the more opportunities that individuals and groups have to do that, that can only result in a more vastly different looking world than it looks now. That's kind of my contention on that.

Yeah, no, I mean, it certainly has the capacity to grant freedom from a economic standpoint in a way that I've never seen in my lifetime. I mean, the idea of, you know, the idea of making a thousand percent gain to anybody not in the not in the game sounds preposterous to anybody in the game. It's like, Oh, that's, that's pretty reasonable. Yeah, like that happened within a year. Yeah, within a few months, within a year could definitely happen. And yeah, I've never seen anything like that in my lifetime, but I do in terms of like using it as a sort of spiritual. I call it internal exercise like it's.

I, my concern with that is that it is an inert tool, you know, just like, just like any, any technology, it's, it's inert. There's like no message attached to it. Like, yes, you will see the, the, the, how the, the thickliness of it affects your psychology and you can learn things about yourself from that. But I also think you're, you, in a way that's, it's like sinking its teeth into you in a, in a weird way. And when I say you, I don't mean you, I mean anybody, like, absolutely. And like the, the deeper into the minutia of it, you get, I mean, you're, you're setting yourself up for, for something that could be potentially egoically.

Slating, or could be damaging to yourself in a multitude of ways. Yes. I mean, I think, I think it's like, it's almost like any of these, like getting too hung up on any technology or any external thing. You know, getting, it's like an idol. It has the capacity to be an idol. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's why I say the crypto gods. That's super important. But what I will say is something that I've noticed, and this is just purely the thread here that I'm following and experientially this has been born out is it's like anything. It's a mirror, ultimately. This is not some thing that has some power to teach you something that you must learn its ways, which leads to idolatry in any facet of life.

It's a mirror. It's an absolute mirror. Now, sometimes you look in the mirror and you can fall in love with it, like narcissists, and that's clearly another trap. Another part of it, though, is if this is giving you an accurate reflection of what you're doing and what you're going through and you're able to actually objectively witness that. It really, it does potentially work. Now, I will say, because it involves money, it involves ego, it involves projections, prognostications, all of these things, the danger of walking that razor's edge is magnified greatly. And I've seen that. I see that all the time. I'm plugged into crypto Twitter all the time.

I've seen people who have made astounding amounts of money who really it seems like has made their lives worse, like just objectively, like they're caught up in bullshit Twitter drama of all things. You've lost. You've lost. I don't care how much you made in Bitcoin, how early you were, whatever it is, you lost if that's your reality where you're concerned about some Twitter thing. So, I think it's a tool that seems to be acutely useful only because, at least for me, and I've always been aware that I've had a very, you know, powerful relationship with money, and I think most people do in this culture, only because of that power.

Do I view it as such a useful modality? Am I recommending that people should jump into cryptocurrency think they're going to learn some profound truths about their lives? Probably not. You're probably going to be like, what the fuck is this shit? I did not sign up for this. But it does seem to be, I look at it also the two sides of this. A lot of people go into cryptocurrency will make life-changing amounts of money that will lead to X, Y, and Z. A lot of people will go into cryptocurrency, get burned, think it's a scam, it'll hurt their lives. There's both coins to that. My goal is to try to find that middle ground where, all right, can this be something that is what I think it is, a paradigm-shifting modality, but also something that makes my life better?

My worst fear about this is I make a lot of money through it and don't learn anything about myself in the process. That's like a useless endeavor for me. I try to remember that. We lost some track of what we're talking about. One second. Yeah, that scenario of the sort of crypto millionaire who goes on confrontational Twitter tirades, I feel like this ties back in to the whole Kanye thing because it's like, what are these people doing? They're essentially thinking they must be thinking in these moments. This person said this. What the fuck I am? Do they know how many Twitter followers I have? Do they know how much money I have?

That's got to be what's playing in their mind and the stream of ad hominem vitriol flies out of them on Twitter and that's a real problem because these things can just become a proxy for your ego in a really dangerous way. If your identity gets too defined by them and that's why I'm completely with you and you say that, of course, you want it to grant you financial freedom, but I don't want it to be my story. Yeah, Michael, he's that dude who made a bunch of money on crypto and then that's my story. I don't want that to be my story. It's like, and I think that's what winds up happening with all of these people like Kanye West, like whatever. It's, that becomes their story. His tirades become his story, his social status becomes his story, his wife, Kim Kardashian becomes his story.

And it's like, do you really want that to be your story man? Because at any moment, you could 180 that and turn into some really inspirational actionable shit for people. I don't expect that for Kanye. I expect the 180 at some point. Maybe it's just being me being optimistic and delusional in my own way, but I do expect a 180 at some point in his career. I don't know when that's going to be. It could be happening soon, but I mean, I guess to that point. I wonder if it'll happen before after it becomes president. Yeah, it's probably not that far off. In terms of a narrative, though, I guess for you personally, what do you want that narrative to be for yourself? If not the grand or delusions of grand or a Kanye bill.

I mean, I want to energize people with the same type of energy that inspires me the, you know, that archetype I talked about earlier of like charging into the flames, charging into the scary territory. It's like looking in the corner, you're most afraid of in the basement of your subconscious because inevitably, if those stones are left unturned, if those battles are left on thought, you'll fucking not feel as accomplished as you could. You'll feel like they're left undone. I would say it's much worse than that. That's the best case scenario at a minimum at a minimum. And I went and kind of ramble about this in the intro to my last cast with with Corey is that, you know, like the, the sum of all of these gambit of all of these, you know, huge existential dares you take in your life is the minimum is satisfaction and the feeling of, you know what? I left it on the field. I did all I could. And that in and of itself is not a bad outcome. But at the maximum, you have potential greatness.

Like you could take those gambit and fucking hit all sevens and be like, ha, you know, and that inspires like countless people that see you succeed. And, you know, the minimum what what might look like failure from the outside looking in is like, I gave it a shot. And you know, I don't feel bad about that. And I guess that's the kind of thing that I ultimately want to live up to and then hopefully pass on to other people. And I'm not really sure how, but I'm, you know, just trying to be an earnest human being putting out the best shit that I can put out. Well, amen. And let me say this, I think by expressing that outwardly and getting that out into the world just vocally. I'm sure you don't talk about it explicitly all the time but saying that that's what I want to be as a person.

I think that really does go a long way for influencing those things happening because I think a lot of people, I often look at this, who cannot look at their Instagram feed or any feed of theirs and just listen, all of us have a lot of friends and a lot of different areas. But of course, inevitably, we come across the picture. It's like, why is this person doing that? Like, what is not happening in their life that this is what they're showing us that this weird post who will fuck took this picture, like, how long. Why are they just enjoying this amazing place that they're in? And listen, I'm taking a lot of pictures and I hope people don't think that's why I'm taking them in various places.

But I know that it happens. And like, that to me, when we're talking about existential and fears is like, if I ever find myself doing something because of that, then I want to g-check from someone. I want to be like, no, you have crossed, you have jumped the shark completely. But I think when you talk about, hey, listen, I'm out here doing this shit, not because this is the thing that it's going to feed my ego and validate what's going on with me. But because when I see something that inspires me and that I resonate with, I want to be doing that for someone else too. And I think that's a very noble and true reason to be doing something.

And truthfully, whether it takes months, years, decades, multiple lives, whatever it is, that does pay dividends over time, whether people believe it. I've seen, luckily, that been alive long enough to see people take alternate routes for various professional, creative careers. That shit does not work. I've seen people reach really high pinnacles in a lot of different areas. But the way they did it wasn't sustainable. They weren't dealing with the shadow stuff. And it just toppled them down right to a new lower point. Even if they maintained the mythical freedom that the financial gains or fame could give them, it didn't help them internally. And I think one of the benefits that we've had from doing a lot of podcasts with a lot of different people is seeing that, like, people ultimately are looking for very similar things in life, right? They want to be fulfilled. They want to love and they want to be loved. It's pretty much it. That's like, and I know those are big things, but like, that's, there's no one who's not fitting into that.

And usually it's a very circuitous and long journey for people to realize that we're lucky enough to talk to a fuckload of people to be like, Oh shit, okay, I think I get what we're supposed to be doing here. I think this is the goal and I think, you know, that's one of the goals of continuing to put this shit out. So I know we've rambled on a tremendous amount here. Dude, what up, is there any other cool shit going on you want to talk about? Just really, really busy, man. Like, I feel like I'm more busy right now than I've ever been in my life, but it's like, like we were talking about, there's just certain things where I feel like it's not acceptable to not do.

It's not acceptable for me to not do podcasts. It's not acceptable for me to, like, not continue growing the things in my life that are the most important to me. Like, not take care of my health, not get enough sleep, not, you know, it's like no matter what, like those are just not, those are just non starters for me. So it's a balancing right now, man, is really what it's about and then kind of building the runway as I, as I'm doing this exercise to make the egress and then just, you know, feel the vessel of third eye drops with all of my energy when the time comes. Yeah, man. And when that push, really, you're ready for lift off, you let me know and we'll make sure that we give it an actual turbo boost there, whatever ways we can. All right, let's end with the questions.

All these good people don't recognize this, but me and Michael have rarely had the chance to catch up over the past however, like three, four, five, six months. So this is, this is our chance to catch up. Yeah. All right. Last three questions. Favorite color. Blue. Favorite number. It's a toss up between three and five. Pick one. I'm going to go with three. I'm going to go with three. I love how excruciating that was. What's your favorite animal. Okay, cool. We're going to, you know, we get to compare because I keep track of these. So we'll get to compare from the last one. Last thing. What's a practical tip that's helped you in your life that you could share with people listening.

I think you have to carve out something to answer questions that are important to you sometime. You have to, even if it's like literally throwing a dart at the calendar and it's six months from now. Schedule a couple hours in your life to just be like, real quick check. What the fuck am I doing? What's important to me? What do I want to accomplish? What do I want my life to be about? You know, like these questions that sound really obtuse and heavy handed, but when are you going to do those things if you don't personally force yourself to, you know? Yeah, especially if you haven't been doing it in the past, like, that's you not holding yourself accountable. Awesome. Dude. I look forward to trolling all of your cryptos here. Crypto pigs. Thanks for doing this, man.

Yeah. Anytime, man. Anytime. We'll catch up soon. All right. Sounds good, brother. Everybody. Peace. Bye. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] I think I'll add every episode like that from now on. Big thanks to Michael for coming on. Show me some guests, people. Let me know who I should have on. I'm keeping up with it, but I won't say it's easy to keep these episodes coming out just because I got to schedule them in advance. I got to make sure I catch up on my responsibilities, all these other things. I have someone cool who you don't think that I have thought of. Let me know. I'll reach out to them. It's pretty much that simple. I have some other people coming up when I know you're going to like, but I can always use more suggestions. Thank you for listening. I will see you next week.