Mushrooms, Creativity and Yoshino Judo Flipping Me

[Music] Welcome to Sankronicity, my guest this week features the return of a good friend Yoshino. He runs the artist decoded podcast, it's on MindPod Network. Well, thing you may have heard about. One of my favorite podcasts, truthfully, he has a way of asking just the right questions to people who you really want to hear the answers from. He has some incredible artists on there. Go check it out. You know what it is. So in this episode, so I'm giving a little overview of my meta recap of this episode. It starts off a little slowly, kind of like feeling our way around, trying to figure out what the theme that's going to emerge.

And what I like about Yoshino is he's patient, and we kind of just like let the thing happen rather than going in with an agenda. And this is one of the things I like doing with friends, you know, more than someone who I found like a topic or theme that they're involved with and asking them specific questions. Like, how would my friends like figure out what it's going to go? More like a conversation. So that's what this one is. But towards the end, we really get into some fucking awesome stuff related to not only psychedelics, but the creative process, creative flow states, and just a whole lot of stuff out there that if you're an artist or an aspiring artist or think you want to be an artist, you probably are.

It's a really, really, really cool episode. It just, again, Yoshino is a hell of a guy. You know, two years ago, was it? It was a lassier shit, it was lassier, I think. We went out there and did the Mindwave event with the collaborative. That was a collaboration with MindPod Network and no wave, the creative collective that's out there, that Yoshino and Justin Hopkins run, which is if you're in LA, downtown LA, anything, go check them out. And you may remember Asia, Justin's wife was a previous guest on Synchronicity 2. They're just really fucking cool people. So go check them out if you're able to.

And we're going to be doing something again in the future. I got to straighten out my schedule for the next year. Kids make things like a little more challenging in terms of scheduling, or at least for my life. So we'll be figuring it out, though. So stay tuned for that. That was probably one of my favorite events that I've been to. Let alone put on. So I'm really looking forward to that. So yeah, that's this episode. Do we have anything else? Am I going to give you a super short episode? Oh, big thanks to the person who gave me a one star review. I'm going to assume that it was related to either the political stuff, Jordan Peterson, or you just didn't like the cut of my jib.

First one, very honored to have it, not even upset. It's like you kind of got to get that cherry pop. You got to get the one star. Got to get that neg in. So if you want to counter that off, dear listener, please go to iTunes and rate and review the podcast higher than one star, hopefully, but you don't have to. That is something that I do appreciate. I'm going to be stripping down the Patreon in, I think, December, maybe in January. What I mean is I'm just going to make it free for everyone. So if you want access to the music that you hear on the show, you'll be able to do this. I'm following Romine Nazer's lead on this, who really, I consider his artwork to be some of the best out there.

And he did that with his Patreon. And he still does paid gigs. I paid him for my logo. Hit him up if you want a logo. But I just, there's something about keeping content behind a pay wall that I get if you've built up a thriving presence and brand that people are willing to do. And it's not anything weird or bad. But for me, it feels like I'd rather just this stuff, especially the music, just be listened to, just consumed rather than trying to get people to pay a nominal amount for it. Obviously, if you want to donate and you want to contribute, that's totally cool. But I think that in the spirit of giving and just kind of how I would appreciate things were done, if fiscally possible.

What I mean is I'm not making enough money from Patreon on a regular basis that I have to be doing it. It's not tied to my livelihood. Nor do I necessarily see it being a huge chunk of my livelihood in the coming years. So what the fuck am I doing? Am I holding out for an extra $50, $200, $300 a month? Would be cool, but I don't think it's worth it. So I will be stripping that down, making it open for everyone. In the meantime, you have to pay me for my shit. It's not that at all. It's just basically I have to go and do that in the right way. I want to make sure that I communicate with current patrons and also just kind of, you know, make it a cooler place.

I think I will also be a little more inspired to post there and release things on a regular basis because I have to kind of like, you know, sequester people in my mind. Oh, these are the paying people who get this. These are the people who don't get this. That's stupid. I don't really want to do that. So anyway, that's happening. This episode is brought to you by Acupuncture. Acupuncture, I went starting last week. I finished my fourth session today, my last session. It's incredible. Go Acupuncture. Go do it. Find someone who's awesome and good at it. I once went to a guy in Chinatown in New York and he didn't speak any English.

It was a Chinese dude. And it was the worst experience of my life. I went. He put a lot of needles in me and a little body started buzzing and started getting nauseous. And I was trying to tell him he just left. And he came back and went, "I don't think something's right." He's like, "No, no, it's good." I'm like, "No, this isn't good." But I found a wonderful acupuncturist in Red Hook. I will do that for her. I think it's what? It's Healing Ridge Acupuncture. Hopefully I'm not butchering that. I don't want to make sure I'm going to get this right. High Ridge. That's what it is. High Ridge. Traditional Healing Arts.

Acupuncture. Carolyn. Amazing. So if you're in the area and you want some Acupuncture, I highly recommend it. This is a fake ad that turned into a real ad. So there you go. That's it, I think, for this episode. I have so many podcasts scheduled for the next few weeks that I don't even know how I'm going to get them all out. There's so many. So hopefully I don't go insane trying to record all of these, but I just know that there are some pretty cool guests coming up who you will be very excited to hear from. And that's it. Thanks for listening. And how are you doing, by the way? Are you having a good time?

Minus retrograde gotcha feeling good? Kind of fucked my life up for a little bit, but I'm feeling pretty good right now. Take care of yourself. Have fun. Don't get overwhelmed by all the negativity that is easily accessible in this day and age. I'm going to get off the platform now, the soapbox. Let's get to the episode without further ado. Here is Yoshino. Hey, what's going on, man? I don't have video because my wife, I get shaky when I use video. Oh, that's fine. I can see you, though. Like a ghost, like an apparition spying. What's going on, man? Oh, no, it's not much, man. Just starting my day off here.

I'm going to turn off the video then. Yeah, yeah. What's funny is it's like, I usually am like, yeah, turn off the video because it's disconcerting. There's something really, I don't even know what it is or it doesn't matter who it is. If I know someone can see me and I can't see them, I'm like, nah, I don't want that shit. I'm good on that. Not that even I'm doing anything. There's any other reason for it. It's just like, it's something I've noticed because I usually don't do video here. I'll turn on my video and say hi, though. Well, I usually don't like doing video either because a lot of times for like these podcasts, when they're over Skype or something, I kind of like to visualize and close my eyes for a second because we generally talk about abstract concepts or something, you know?

Let's turn it off. We'll mutually turn it off. Yeah. Which is strange because when it's just something like-- I'm the same way, truthfully. Yeah, yeah. When I'm in person, first of all, I'd rather be in person doing these, but I do find the video aspect. It's just because you know what it is? If it was perfect, if it was like being in person, it would be great. If it was like a VRO, it's like, oh, I'm there with Greg. This is amazing, but the fact that there's still some kind of like weird technological things in the way, it's like, I'd rather just hear your voice. I'm used to that. At least we grew up with that.

So-- Exactly. Yeah. When it's in person, you kind of like pick up on-- I think it's just-- it's a lot to do with energy. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. Because you're in their presence and you can actually like-- I don't know, it's a different vibe. And it's also you pick up on different facial expressions and whatnot. I get it, man. All right. We'll start it off. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. Well, thanks for doing this. Of course. Yeah. So I know you asked-- we'll just consider ourselves recording. I know you asked before, is there anything specifically you wanted to speak about? And I hadn't thought about it before then.

And then I immediately was like, oh, you know what I do want to speak to him about is the mushroom stuff. Because we were talking about it a little bit and you were like, yeah, I did mushrooms last weekend and the weekend before I'm like, oh, like, what's going on there? So like, what-- have you been doing mushrooms regularly for a lot of-- this is a new thing? What's going on? I mean, I've been doing mushrooms since I was, well, periodically since I was in my early 20s. I think my first mushroom experience was-- I think I was 20 in college. And I remember very specifically-- and actually, it's funny because the person I did mushrooms with was on this last experience about two weekends ago was one of the first people-- actually, the very first person I did mushrooms with when I was-- Ooh, the circle.

The circle. Yeah. It was an interesting-- interestingly cathartic experience, at least for myself. But yeah, I think, you know, the past three weekends, well, there was three weekends in a row where I did mushrooms subsequently after each other. And, you know, it wasn't exactly for like a specific intention. You know, I think-- I really just wanted to take the time to actually reconnect with my roommate because I haven't-- we've just been spending a lot of time apart and, you know, I don't want to get too much into it, but he's kind of going through some things and maybe just kind of like a coming of age sort of a thing.

Yeah. He's a little bit younger than me, and I feel like, at times, I play mentor to him. Sure, sure. Like, for certain, you know, certain things, certain advice and whatnot. Well, you're a healthy individual, so that helps in terms of looking for people as-- for mentors. So that's good that you're able to play that role. Yeah, thanks, man. Yeah, I mean, I tried to, and I, you know, I tried to-- Yeah, I mean, I guess that's one thing about being like an empathetic sort of person, you know, you know, trying to be there for your friends and-- That's awesome, man. He's a fucking dude. So you took mushrooms to reconnect with him?

That's pretty awesome. Yeah, so we did that one weekend, the first weekend, and then the second weekend, we did mushrooms and then-- and then the third weekend, I did it with some of my college friends and we went out to Joshua Tree, and we did it specifically because one of our friends within that circle-- and he's-- I've been friends with this guy since I was 10 years old. Oh, wow. And he's going to be leaving to go to South America, and then after that, he's-- he basically threw away or gave away all of his worldly possessions and just has lives out of a backpack now. Wow. And-- That's-- that's the thing is we don't know exactly how long he's going to be gone for and he doesn't know.

But he's going to go and embark on this journey where he's going to be-- he does a physical therapy and he works for a couple of different companies, like he gets flown out for like Nike to go to China to be able to do physical therapy on some of their Olympic athletes out there. Oh, wow, wow. Yeah, so it allows for him the freedom to be able to make those decisions, but he's also-- I mean, I think for him, it's like a-- a big journey to be able to like experience like traveling and-- and-- and yeah, so basically, we didn't know-- or we don't know how long he's going to be gone for, so we did this journey specifically for him and to reconnect as a group.

Wow. And you've known him since you're 10? Yeah, I've known him since I was 10 years old. So cool, what was-- is this the first time you've done mushrooms with him? No, actually-- no, Hugh was this-- the second time I did mushrooms was with him and-- yeah, I mean, but you know, during that, like, in my early 20s, I wasn't as conscious of-- Dude, I mean, I get-- In tension? Yeah, I mean, yeah. And I imagine you were someone, you know, under psychedelic-- with psychedelic experiences where you found yourself, you know, unintentionally mindful or aware of things that you didn't intend to happen, but yeah, man, I mean, the difference between now setting an intention or using it for a specific purpose, you know, for healing or whatever it is in-- in-- in modern contextual uses, just the general cultural understanding of it is wildly different than when you're in college and taking mushrooms.

So I mean, I totally get it, but still, obviously, what I think is so cool about mushrooms-- and I want to keep with going with the story, but it-- they have this weird way of having this thread that just punctures space and time and links these things up in a very circular and, like, interconnected way. It's pretty cool, but yeah, continue, not to-- not to digress. Yeah, well, I think the thing with mushrooms-- still siving mushrooms specifically, you know, it allows you to open up and it gives-- essentially, like, the way I look at it is kind of like a portal to be able to allow yourself the vulnerability to be able to tap into something that-- to essentially tap into something of, like, the subconscious, you know?

And I guess it depends on how willing you are to-- because, you know, I have this-- I don't know if it's-- it's kind of my theory, and it's more so, like, an observational theory. Yeah, yeah. But I think the more that-- at least from my experience, like, the times when I have a better trip on mushrooms is when I allow myself to just kind of experience, you know, whatever it is that I'm the experience, and then I've noticed that with friends that generally try to hold back or want to be a control-- Surrender. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, of the situation, then-- for instance, one of my friends on this experience, he was starting to have a bad trip initially because I think it has to do with some-- yeah, like, yeah, surrendering-- sorry, surrendering control of the experience, right?

Yeah, which is hard for people like me and other kind of, like, you know, attentive or sensitive people who are used to that, you know, it can be difficult to surrender that kind of illusion of control, which is what it is. And once you kind of just accept that it's an illusion, that's, like, the first layer of surrendering. But I mean, I know if you fight that, I mean, that's, like, it's not going to be fun. You're going to get confronted with some pretty strong resistance that may be productive in the end, but, you know, it's certainly not going to be what we would call a pleasurable experience for most people.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you know, I mean, going back, it's what you're saying about that thread. Yeah. And, you know, what I was noticing on this particular experience is I kept on trying to extract certain meanings from the situation, but I think at least the older that I get, I'm more conscious of trying to extract philosophical meaning out of random happenstance situations and building hypotheses from observational experiences, you know? I like that. I like that a lot. It's a not a popular scientific approach. I mean, this is something young and other people, you know, put a lot of emphasis on, but it's, you know, it runs counter to kind of the way that we like to statistically, you know, large sample size, something's up, but I think it kind of opens up this door to, like, the more magical aspects of reality is that what has kind of been your relationship or transition into viewing things like that?

Well, I think, I mean, going back to the whole, you know, thread sort of analogy. I think I've always been that way. I specifically remember, you know, because I didn't really grow up in an artistic sort of family, but I remember in college, the only classes that really resonated with me were philosophy courses. And I took, I think I took two philosophy courses in college, and, you know, because when I was in college, I was a business major, but so it was an elective course. But I think... I didn't know you were a business major. That's funny. Yeah, I was a business major. I was in an art major in college.

That's awesome. Yeah. You know, that's really cool. Yeah. So I just kind of ran, ran with it. But I think, you know, what I've also been noticing, I promise there's a, there's a meaning for this. Hi, Niners. What I've been noticing is, so for instance, I recently watched this film, The Square, and the interesting thing about this film is the director, Ruben Oslin, he was talking on this podcast called The Treatment, and he was talking about how he takes these certain observations from reality, and injects them into his film projects. And I was thinking to myself, wow, that's such an interesting way to purely observe art, and as an artist, be able to intertwine your experiences and then put into reality or into your artwork, because...

And I think that's the most honest approach that you can have, you know, because artwork can sometimes be really, what's it called, I guess, really pretentious, and you know, there's a lot of like books on art theory, but really it comes to your experience. And then, yes, I think you do need to know some art theory and art history, but in order to have an honest sort of, what's it called, an honest creation through whatever medium it is, you have to take your observation and inject it into the piece, whatever it is. No, and I mean, I think that touches on something that I've kind of really gotten in touch with through podcasting more than anything else is the kind of the magic of the dynamic unplanned aspects of creativity, whether it's conversation or music or art or whatever it is, you know, your creative path, I think is what is really resonating with the broad...

I don't know if it's always been like this, I mean, I do think it's pure and I think that's what people resonate, but the ability to kind of get that out so quickly now and have something that were in the past, if there were any type of media or art, it would have to be like very much pre-planned in the context of ways to get attention towards it, where as if you're just creating from that very honest place and pulling things from your life, I mean, that's what people love, that's what really draws people in and of course, we don't have to get into the whole nature of art and the derivative art that comes and art is a business and all of these other things that are attached to this sphere, but yeah, man, I mean, I've certainly noticed that, that's like the coolest part about being an artist, I know a lot of people who probably wouldn't consider themselves artists, but a lot of the things that they're doing in their life, whether it's a job they've created for themselves or just projects that they think are interesting, a gardening thing, that's definitely art too, so yeah, man, I think that's really cool.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I really think that you can approach anything, and I take this from my experiences with martial arts, but I think, you know, at first you understand techniques and then from those techniques, then you use those techniques to kind of create your own methodology, and you understand your own body structure and physique and the way that you move and what feels natural to you, right? I mean, I've been dissecting like creativity and art, I guess, I'm pretty much my entire life, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what gave me this conclusion to become an artist and to want to dedicate my life to the arts, but, and I think what we're talking about is understanding your own flow state, and it's hard to do if you want to, if you want to make a living from art, but I guess, you know, that's just kind of like the different cards that are presented to you, and then you have to figure out how to play those cards and, or how to piece the puzzle together, you know?

Yeah, and I mean, all while dealing with kind of, we're within the paradigm and structure of like, yeah, you need to make money from the thing you're spending most of your time, and this is not obviously for everyone, but for the majority of people, the thing you spend most of your time doing is going to be related to how much money you have, which is going to be related to your, you know, imagined standard of living or basic needs. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's like you're not just trying to maybe figure out, or the artist in this day and age isn't necessarily just trying to figure out how to be a creative authentic person and bring that, their passions or what they're interested in together, but they're also trying to just figure out like, well, how the fuck do I make this work?

I mean, I, I found for myself the more you, you kind of latched onto it when you said like, you know, I became an artist because you realized you were just thinking about this all of the time, you couldn't not dissect and analyze and be interested in it at a certain point, you're just like, holy shit, like maybe this is what I should be doing because this is what I'm spending my time thinking about. I always say to people, no matter what it is, what they want to do, that like, if you can't not do that thing, like if you shouldn't be doing it, and this doesn't mean you just blindly follow anything, but if you really just find yourself, you know, your base state is just you're really interested in this, you're really curious about that, like definitely move towards that more often than not, even if it's not the thing for you, you'll, you'll at least figure it out a lot quicker, but I mean, that's what better way to figure out that you're an artist.

I mean, I think too many people go into artistic realms, whether it's at schools, I mean, I went to a music college, but a lot of people go into these things thinking that they're going to be something that looks like something out there already as an artist, and that's like generally not a very great way to go about this stuff, but that's cool, man. That's really cool that that's how, yeah, yeah, but isn't that the approach that a lot of people take a majority of people take when they go into college in general, I mean, even outside of the arts, I think that's just a symptom of our educational structure, you know, it's take these certain steps, and then within those steps, you can become a XYZ doctor, a dentist, an artist, you know, so it's these systematic styles of thinking that are ingrained in us in a very young age that don't really, I mean, there's, I've never heard of a class in college or an elementary school or any class growing up about being your own person, right, or class in creativity, really, I mean, the art classes, you take an art class, you're painting with these techniques, you know, it's not necessarily just do whatever you want, right?

I mean, it's not taught at a standard college how, I mean, I'm sure there are classes on creativity and all of these things, but I mean, I think there's so much that's not even something that I think you take like an eight week class and all of a sudden, like you do it, it just could potentially set you on a path towards being an authentic creative, you know, artist, you know what I mean? But yeah, I agree, like when you're talking about the educational thing, yeah, if you want to be a doctor, if you want to be a dentist, you want to be a vet, systematic approaches, not just the only thing way to do it, but like, you know, detailed kind of wrote ways to do things are actually very useful.

But when it comes to creative things, like that really is, it can be a hindrance as much as anything else. You could be a technically incredibly proficient musician, but if you're not in touch with a real passion of playing music, I mean, it's unlikely you're going to be able to evoke that response in someone who'd be listening to you or whatever it is. So I mean, it's interesting that like, to me, I know you noticed this because you're, you are in creative collectives, you're an artist yourself, you're just thinking about and doing this stuff very often in your life, you know, it seems to me that the theme that is very prevalent in this time right now is that things are kind of breaking down these old systems, these old things, more and more people are questioning the kind of validity of the educational system, you know, the healthcare system, the food system, like the medical, you know, all of these things are seeming like, like, is this really how we want to do it?

And I think that really benefits people who identify as artists or creatives because you're kind of, you need to get used to that kind of, I don't know exactly what's going to happen face. I mean, you don't have to embrace it, but if you do as an artist, it's much more helpful in terms of maintaining what you're talking about, like kind of a flow state. So how, I mean, it seems like mushrooms, it's not a surprise you were taking them, but I didn't, and I know we got kind of sidetracked from that, but you mentioned the second, first two times you took mushrooms recently, what was the third time like where you reconnected with the first person you took them?

Well, the third time I was recently, that I took it on that third weekend, it was a much larger dose. How much? They give comparison for the doses. Five grams? Oh, nice. Yeah, so it's what that heroic dose turns my kind of sort of thing, right? That's a minimum heroic dose, us in the B is called that late weight, so I'm just fucking around. Oh, really? No, no, I'm literally just fucking around five grams is there's a threshold. I mean, yes, you trip a lot harder for taking double that, but I mean, like once you're above like four or five grams, like you're, it's much, much more potent than a smaller dose than that.

So yeah, no, it's heroic. I'm just giving you a hard time. Oh, that's what we call my way, I love that. Yeah, no, I, yeah, I think this one, I kept on coming to this conclusion of connection love, which sounds very, I don't know, I guess a typical experience, but I really felt, I really felt this sort of connection with the earth. And I don't know exactly how to describe it. It's really, it's really hard to put into words unless you've taken mushrooms, which I know you have, but I'm trying to be as descriptive as I can, but I guess I, I felt this sort of like grounding and this connection with my, my friends that, I mean, I feel, but it was definitely a much stronger response.

I know exactly what you're talking about because I could've taken, when I was in my mid twenties and early twenties, I was taking, you know, not knowing it at the time, but anywhere from like five to 10 grams of mushrooms, just on like a random weekend because we had access to a ton of them and also a fair amount of LSD. And you know, listen, I had the mushroom experiences where the next two, three weeks, I'm just talking about unconditional love and no one has any fucking idea what I'm talking about in college. So I mean, I, I get these profound experiences that it seems to ground you to. I mean, I, I do think it's a really powerful kind of reminder that there are layers of reality or experiences that are constantly around us that, you know, just a slight change in our kind of neurochemistry with the aid of another plant, you know, consciousness really, really just shifts things to, and you realize very quickly, I think, on a, on a high dose like that, that like there's infinite variations on that, you know what I mean?

It's not just like this one specific, you know, experience you're having. I mean, they're literally infinite time folds of infinite varieties of experiences. I mean, I, I, I personally think mushrooms are incredibly potent and powerful, um, potentially healing modalities, but I've also found for a lot of people that they have a huge trickster element to them too, and they can go sideways. What do you mean? Well, you know, I find the mushroom to be a very loving presence, but I also know that I've caught it. I've never really had a bad, bad experience on mushrooms to be quite honest. I'm just tempting fate here.

But basically when I catch like kind of like a, a thought, a stray thought going in a certain place when I'm on mushrooms, granted, it's been a couple years since I've done mushrooms, but you know, I'll be like, whoa, if I just run with that for like a couple of minutes, you know, God knows in real time, but just run with that for a few dozen thoughts or so. I could be in a very dark place very quickly and it could start kind of cascading on itself. I luckily during my first LSC experience, where it was the most I've ever taken, um, you know, I came up with a little, you know, device, uh, that basically allowed me if something was going funky and I didn't feel it was useful.

And I was, you know, not under difficult experience, but a negative one, one, an unnecessarily negative one, I should say, I just came up with the idea of a light switch. You can just flip a light switch. If it's, if it's getting too dark, you can just flip it on. It's getting too late. You can flip it this way and just kind of alter the experience in a second because there's no reasons you couldn't do that. You know what I mean? Especially when you're on a psychedelic, you realize how malleable your thoughts actually are. And that's prevented me from a lot of, uh, negative, I would say experiences.

It's not a trick because you still have to process all of the difficult things. Like, and there, there's the light loving wonderful side of psychedelics, but then there's the shadow work, you know, the stuff that, especially if you're not familiar with looking at the darker aspects of yourself or humanity or whatever it is, it can be the worst and most terrifying experience of a life, you know, people can get caught up on that for, for dozens of years, one specific experience influencing them, you know, below the threshold of their consciousness. So yeah, I mean, like, I get when you're trying to explain the ineffable experience of a five gram mushroom trip that your words aren't like completely available to communicate what it was like.

But what was kind of what were the sort of, yeah, I think specifically for me, I'm not very good at, uh, explaining experiences, uh, just in general, I just noticed that about the way that my brain works is I like to live experiences and then later dissect some sort of philosophical meaning out of it. Uh, but I'm not good at giving like some people are really good at telling stories and I've noticed, and maybe this is just something in my head, you know, this is just something in my head from early on that when I was a kid, I was, I was told, um, oh, you're not very good at telling stories or I felt that with, you know, people around me, but it could just be something that's to lay in my head and part of my, um, programming that I need to like D program as well, you know, but I think you're very, I'm very interested whenever you're telling me stories.

So I definitely don't think that that's a shared reality for most people. Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, I, I guess what I'm just trying to say is like understanding like the deconstruction of these sort of thoughts that we have in our head. And I mean, even what you're talking about about the light switch, you know, it's interesting how we have these sort of metaphorical approaches on thing, like activating certain things in our minds, you know, like you're saying that, uh, you know, to turn on your turn on and off your experiences, if it's a negative experience that you're having on an LSD trip, right?

You look at it sort of like a, uh, a light switch. And then so for me, there's certain things in life where I think, um, I look at like pieces of life, these different sort of realities that you have, and it's all constructed or I'm sorry, I'm, it's all deconstructed. And then you have all these pieces to this 500,000 piece puzzle. And it's in order for you, uh, you know, by the end of your life, you know, whenever that may be, you know, this puzzle will be constructed, you know, um, and I don't know, I think, I guess I think about that a lot about, uh, in terms of, uh, characterizing, um, abstract thought.

That's, I mean, it's an interesting, I'm thinking about your puzzle, your 500,000 piece puzzle thing. I mean, it's obviously in linear time, you know, that last puzzle piece would be your, your final breath on the earthly plane. But it's interesting to think about it that the puzzle is probably complete in many different versions across, you know, infinite realms of reality too. And you could kind of move through each of those and kind of, you know, present this, this meta, uh, puzzle. I mean, it's just, it's a very interesting thing because I mean, I, I found probably the most useful thing about psychedelics to be for people who are willing to let them take them there is this, this fluidity of thought and this idea to kind of go places where, you know, you're not leaning on previous knowledge as your only kind of like arbiter, whether this is vowed or not with, but then I've also noticed like the people who really seem to get the most out of psychedelics are the people who can also like doing what do what you do, which is bring it back to reality, bring it back to the, to the point where maybe you're not tripping a hundred percent of your existence.

So, you know, it's useful to kind of figure out how these kind of interlace and interface with other aspects of our life. So I mean, that's why I started with the mushroom thing, not just because I love to hear people's trip experiences, but because, you know, three, three times in three weeks, scaling up to heroic dose. I mean, was this a very conscious decision on your part or were you kind of scaling up, like, did this come about, you know, just, yeah, I'd like, I'd like to say that it was a conscious decision. The last, the last time in Joshua Tree was a conscious decision to do that, but the two weekends prior to that, I did it, you know, to reconnect with my roommate.

And I mean, it was a really good experience, but yeah, I mean, I'd like to say it was much more conscious than it really was, but it just felt right. And sometimes I just like to go off of a feeling and inclination to do something relative to the rest of your life. How often do you go off a feeling of something to do something rather than planning it out or other ways one way? I mean, it depends in psychedelic or like sort of experiences. I mean, I've probably only done mushrooms maybe 10 or 12 times in my life, but in terms of other things in life, just, you know, I mean, I guess it goes back to the whole state of flow, you know?

So I think, I mean, nine times I attend, I'll do something that I want to do, you know? I think, I mean, even going back to the mushroom experience, time stretches, you know, within that experience, but I also think about equating that time to other things in life. It's like, I think if, and I get caught up in this too, it's like if you have the intention of what you want to do, time slows down a bit, or I mean, it depends on, at least it feels like time is more well spent, you know? And it's not necessarily a thing about, you know, I also thought about this in terms of like our capitalistic society and how, you know, a lot of the times if you work for a corporation, you're essentially exchanging your time for money.

And I mean, there's, I think there's a fine line between that. And I'm not saying that my methodology is necessarily better than someone that works at a corporate job because there's certain securities that, you know, going with the corporate job. But I guess what I'm trying to say is it's more about the intention of why you're doing that, because if you have a corporate job and you're trying to support your family and, you know, there's certain things in life that prevent itself to you that, you know, you have to either take responsibility for, or, you know, it's just certain things happen in life, right?

So I'm not saying that that's necessarily a bad thing. But I guess for me, in my happiness, you know, I really need to know that I'm, that I have control of what I can control, right? And also have the understanding to relinquish control when I don't have control. And you know what this sounds like to me, it sounds like a question of kind of alignment with what you're doing, because I think that also just encapsulates both aspects of what you were talking about, not only for yourself, but, you know, someone has to take a corporate job or a job, you know, that they don't really like, that's not that glamorous, but it makes them more money so they can help their family.

Um, it's, it's aligning, you know, yourself with those things in terms of that's when I do feel like time slows down and both speeds up paradoxically too. You can get lost in something, you know, where it feels like things are really slow and then all of a sudden you pop your head up and it's like six hours later, like, holy shit, like I've been working on this. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, I mean, no, I think there's a beauty in that decision making too, because, you know, if you need to take that job to be able to support your family and you make that conscious decision to be able to sacrifice your time in order, essentially be a martyr of your time to be able to support, you know, your family and the people that you love.

There's a beauty in that too, you know, and I think that's what, where maturity, a true maturity comes in into the play, because I know early on in my freelance life that there were times where I was struggling financially and I probably should have taken a job to like support myself, you know, just so you don't go crazy and do like torture yourself totally. Yeah. And I mean, I guess, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think that, you know, there's those certain basic needs that need to be met for your survival. But, you know, I guess as I've been maturing and understanding myself and the intention of what I want to do, you know, I guess things, but I don't know if it's just living life and becoming more empathetic and understanding person and a more vulnerable and sensitive person, I guess, as well, right?

Do you think you're naturally predisposed to be, you know, are you naturally like that or do you think psychedelics kind of accentuated that or brought that out into you? I'm curious because I feel that people have different kind of relationships with house psychedelics. I know people who are very sensitive and they'll do psychedelics and they'll withdraw, you know, there'll be less, send less feelers out in the world, whether we're better or worse. Where do you think you consider yourself a naturally kind of empathetic, thoughtful person? I don't know. I mean, it's hard to say because I grew up as an only child and because of that, I think it shaped my world in a certain way and I think I've had to go through a lot of sort of life struggles to be able to come out on the other side.

I would like to say that, yeah, I mean, I would say more so than I am an empathetic person, but I think, yeah, no, I mean, I definitely have had to go through some trials and tribulations in life to come out on the other side as a resilient human being. And some, I think some people, sometimes, you know, some people encounter that very early on in life and sometimes people encounter that a little bit later on in life. But I think that we're, you know, I was thinking about this early this week and like during this month to about these sort of illusions that you play in your minds and being able to consciously like dissect and rebuild those illusions.

I mean, I think it was kind of like what we were talking about a little bit before, but yeah, I don't know, I mean, this idea of being able, I mean, once you're in that, once you're in that realm of kind of looking at thoughts and recognizing that you can deconstruct them and kind of rebuild new patterns, I mean, this is something that I think I first became like acutely aware of with NLP neuro linguistic programming way back. I mean, not way back in the day, this is starting in the 70s, I think, but back when I was in college, I was like 2003, 2004, you realize pretty quickly that people run so much off habit that if you can do anything to kind of interrupt that process, this is akin to like the stage magician or illusionist, you know, doing a handshake thing and, you know, tricking you, if you interrupt that process, it is an altered state of consciousness for people.

And if you can kind of plant the seeds of positive intention or good behaviors or, you know, ideally altruistic intentions, you know, life starts to change. And I think also if you start weaving in that I noticed you've really been doing just from our conversations, just getting the vibe of it is living in the moment, kind of accepting kind of the mysteries and flow states that evolve from that also recognizing that that's not always present. But if you want to tap into that layer of reality, it certainly is accessible. I mean, I think these are things that, you know, these are real like, this is what an artist does.

I think it's hard to put into words a lot of these experiences, but like, to me, when I look objectively from the outside in is just from us speaking, last time you told me about these three mushroom experiences, I was like, oh, that's super interesting. And I don't think you had done the third one yet. I think you were, you were going up to that one and I was like, Oh, that's three in three weeks. That's like significant. Just the number three is popping up there. And I mean, are you, do you have plans to continue to use mushroom specifically or any other psychedelics to this end or you're just kind of enjoying letting them naturally manifest in your life when they will?

I'm, you know, I'm more of a person of the, I mean, I rather naturally let it manifest in my life. And I guess it just, I think mine, I think because I'm so structured in certain things with in my life, like working out and using a schedule and kind of like living by this, a certain like regiment, I like like, in order for me to live a happy life, I need certain like regimented schedules in my life, me personally. But then I also need certain experiences that are contradictory to that, to be able to balance those things out. So, so to answer your question, yeah, I mean, the psychedelic experiences, I just, I have a feeling of when I know it's the right time to be able to do that, you know, because I don't want these experiences to be, to be, it's word for it.

Automatic? No, not automatic, I just don't want these experiences to like, I want to be in control of like, when I do do it, I don't want it to be it be those experiences to be habitual, you know? I got to. Yeah. I like just doing it for me, for me. I think there's other, you know, there sometimes in life, you know, I know a lot of my friends that micro dose on acid and micro dose on, on mushrooms and, which I think is fine. Have you ever done that? I have micro dose on acid, just like very briefly, um, a couple of days. That's not enough. You did. Did you do it in a row? Well, wait, what's your experience?

What's your experience on that? It's funny. You should ask. Micro dose in about two months, a little more. And today was the first day that I did. And, uh, you know, to me, it's, and I, I, I micro dose LSD. I found psilocybin to be completely overwhelming, even at what we're supposed to be sub threshold amounts. I was just like, no, I feel like this is just a mini condensed mushroom trip. This isn't what I was looking for. The micro dosing, I mean, is really, it's, it's an incredible kind of reality lusener for me. Um, I've done it where I do it every day for, you know, five days, seven days, um, and I've done it on the fatamine regimen, which is once every fourth day, um, for three months.

And I, for me personally, I didn't have any real specific intention. I was actually really cautious, like, I didn't want to fall into the trap, like, Oh, I need this to be creative or I need this to be productive or I need this to be more balanced. So I was just like, you know what, let me see how it just kind of like seeps into my life. And I found all of those things to be totally present in it. And it's, it's definitely not just a placebo thing for me. Like there will be a certain point in the day where I'll be like, Oh, that's a choice I probably wouldn't have made, but it's nonetheless a positive decision on my behalf.

So, you know, I found it to be an ally in that regard, but I, I do think the key with microdosing me just, if I was going to give some anecdotal, you know, wisdom here is, is stick with it for a longer period of time, but not as close together because that can give you these little reference days of like, okay, I, I know it's coming up and then you'll get used to it. But if you do it like three months every fourth day, you'll have these little like beacons and little signposts along the experience. You can be like, was that anything? Was it productive? Was it not helpful? But I mean, I would, I would give it more than two days just because it's, you also just to be clear, might be someone who, who you don't need that.

You know what I mean? Like there's all this stuff works differently with all of our neuro chemistry and biology and epigenetic, all of this stuff, like, you know, that's important to remember. I think whenever we talk about any of this stuff, like it's very unique to the individual. There's not like, oh, this is perfect for you. I love microdosing LSD in short. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not, no, I'm not saying. Yeah. I'm definitely not saying it's like a negative. Yeah. No, no, I get that. I get that. Yeah, it's a negative thing. I think. Yeah. No, I, I mean, I'm definitely open to the experience. I think I haven't put myself in a place where I'm so, I'm so regimented by like, and maybe, maybe this is, you know, me needing to deconstruct that a bit and to go into the next wave and not be so regimented, regimented into, onto my calendar.

Well, isn't it hard to be regimented when you're on five grams of mushrooms? It's like the least, least regimented experience in life, basically. Oh, yeah. I tried to, I, I mean, this is going to sound ridiculous, but I tried to cook my friends. My friends gave me, gave me this responsibility because I like to cook for my friends a lot. Oh my God. Five grams of mushrooms? Yeah. Yeah. I took the most out of my entire group. And you're the cook. You should be using fire, of course. Yeah. It was not good. I literally try to use all my brain capacity to make whatever it was that we were about to eat.

I think it was like sausages or something like, and it didn't turn out good. The whole house filled with smoke. And I was just there, like rendered useless to this experience. And that sounds right. I mean, that sounds. That sounds about right. So honestly, it sounds a little more advanced than probably where I would have gotten, which is, it sounds like you actually got the fire to come on at some point. Like I would have been mystified on how that process was working just to be clear. Dude, that's hilarious that they made you the cook. Something similar happening to me in Alexis not too long ago.

Luckily, it wasn't five grams, but we went to this party in Westchester. And I brought micro doses of LSD and not micro doses of weed chocolate. And so I was like, all right, we're off. Like we don't have Eli. We don't have the, like, you know, I have no responsibilities. Let's, uh, let's get, let's get a little loose with this stuff. So, you know, I'm not taking like an insane amount of psychedelics, but everyone else there took mushrooms and we got designated the appointed, not only cooks, but go out into this town that we had never been in pretty, pretty loose, I would say, and get supplies, dinner, come back, you like prepare it.

It was fucking insane, man. Luckily we were not on five grams because that is impossible to do if you're in that. But dude, that's so funny. They made, how much were they on that? They thought that was a good idea. That's just, uh, that's hilarious. Two, two to three. That's so funny. Um, dude, so tell me what's going on with artists decoded just because I routinely get go through these phases where I pop in, um, to my iPod network podcasts. And I always love listening to yours because I think you're, I think what you, you've kind of, uh, you know, elucidated here in our conversation and I get this vibe from you and having stayed with you is like, you are pragmatic and logical in the way that you kind of analyze and do deconstruct these things.

And I think that really shines in your podcast, because you're asking like really interesting questions and insightful questions and it's like, I think that's what where you really shine with this stuff, especially in the podcasting world. But I also know from our own experience is that this is like a very transformative thing to do. So what has it been like for you? I mean, how many episodes have you done at this point? I think we're on 107, you know, 170 release next. Yeah, man. So like, what, what is 107 episodes of talking to people taught you? Mm, I've learned so much. Uh, man, well, I've realized that, you know, I always ask, uh, different artists and different people that I bring onto the show about their, uh, their experiences as a child.

Yeah. Because I think part of creativity is being able to tap into that child likes sensibility that you had as a kid. And whether that was nurtured or not, I think that can manifest, uh, itself in different ways throughout your adult experience, uh, and, um, you know, I've learned that and I've also learned that, uh, with, when our work becomes popularized, uh, or it becomes a, a large amount of people likes or hard work or, yeah, or attuned to it or it becomes successful is because it's more of a reflection of the time period, I think. And, uh, you know, I think it's, it's, it's similar to when you watch a film, generally, you know, when you ask someone, oh, what did you think about this film that it's a reflection on their inner thoughts and, uh, I mean, depending on how good the film is, right?

Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, it is some sort of reflection of you because you give your personal experience within the experience, right? Yeah. I mean, this is what you were talking about originally, which is pulling, you know, real life experiences and putting that into your expression of it. I mean, because that is, that's what art is, right? That's what the creativity is. That's kind of, if there is a point to it, that's it. That's all I know. This could be endlessly debated why people do this stuff and why they're compelled to do it. But I mean, I think that's really just kind of the main thing. Um, yeah.

I mean, yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Oh, no, I was. Oh, no, no. No, no. Please, please. Oh, no. I was just, I was, uh, and actually you could probably recant on this, uh, idea too, is I was thinking about, you know, certain, um, podcasters or podcasts are really, uh, popular. And you know, Joe Rogan's podcast, for instance, he talks a lot about he ties in, uh, he ties in different art forms, but he also ties in theoretical approaches and scientific approaches into it. And I think that's why people gravitate towards, I mean, it's also Joe Rogan. So he's wildly entertaining, yeah, wildly entertaining as well.

But you know, I was just thinking about, um, kind of, you know, the interviewers that I like to hear a lot from and, and I guess certain ways, um, that I would like to improve on like the, uh, that experience, the listening experience. And I was thinking a lot about that sort of like scientific and theoretical approach, um, you know, for instance, I was thinking about having artists being interviewed by scientists or artists and, um, I guess sort of like current day philosophers. Um, but I don't know, I guess, no, it's a really cool idea. Yeah. I mean, but I don't know. I guess like what question for you is what, like where do you see your podcast going since around your podcast?

Well, I mean, way to turn it around, judo move, uh, basically, you also know me well enough to know that I will probably have an answer for this. I mean, the truth is, is that I think originally, I've told this story, but originally when I started the podcast, it was a purely defensive maneuver, like I did not have expectations of doing this because I thought it was going to be popular or I thought it was going to be good for me really, I just was like, you know what, if I lose my iPod network, if everything goes to shit that I've been working on the past like five years, whatever, however long it had been, I'm going to be real bitter if I don't have anything to show for it.

So that was, that was the genesis of my podcast, which is, you know, an interesting one. It's not the most noble of intention, but I also had a, it's honest though, too, it is honest, that's definitely, it definitely is honest, I'm not sugar cutting it. There's not enough honesty out there in the world, you know, people want to sugarcoat things. And, um, I think if you give an honest experience, uh, I, you know, in this day and age, well, it might not just be in the same age, but I think it just resonates with more people. It seems like it because we're, we're certainly encountering a wave of thought and thinking that is not predicated on the validity of honesty or truth telling or authentic experience.

And I, as you know, like luckily got to see this firsthand, you know, behind the scenes for a lot of the spiritual world stuff and nonprofits, all of these things that happened. Um, you know, the people aren't privy to and it just kind of like through my perspective on how every aspect of culture, you know, it does seem like capitalism or the, uh, desire to be acknowledged and loved has been perverted into this, like kind of clamoring for monetary units or attention, um, whether online or in real life. And it's just like that's not a healthy system that we're living in. So I, I, that's also why you talk about spiritual materialism, right?

I tried. I mean, I try to do as much as possible and also be aware and try to just like ego check myself as much as possible because I'm acutely aware that I have an ego, it gets bruised enough and I'm, you know, causes me enough trouble that it'd be foolish to think I didn't. You know, I try to just like constantly reflect the gaze back on myself, but also taking an honest look at, you know, what's going on around me and I, and I also try to be permissive, more permissive of behavior that I deem to be, you know, uncouth or maybe not aboveboard without being like a softy about it, but it's a weird, you know, honestly what I've noticed more about my podcast in the past couple of months, I'm trying to use it more as a platform to do exactly what we're talking about now.

Just like call out as much bullshit as I can call out without being nasty and kind of like caddy about it and like calling people out by name and saying, Oh, this is bullshit, but just like pointing out themes or, or things that I think maybe should be looked at or have a little more light shine on them and not always bad things. Like I think we need to have more prominent women in psychedelics research and psychedelic communities and, you know, just more women voices talking about this kind of emerging theme of, you know, divine feminine, but, you know, because I think people are ready for this thing.

So I've been noticing that is kind of where my podcast has been and just to be clear, there was certainly a period where my podcast is getting more and more popular, um, like a year, year and a half ago or something where like I fell into the trap of being like, Oh, I got to make this a thing now. And our friends, um, Sean and Cass, like they, they kind of showed me the light in terms of like how to run a really cool podcast is like, don't pay attention to your numbers. Don't pay attention to, um, you know, making money from it. It's cool if those things happen, but what people really love about podcast is that there's a dynamic energy from good conversationalist that you can't really fake, you know what I mean?

You can pre-produce and, you know, do parlor tricks and have all of your points laid out and have really interesting stuff like you might hear on a, on a lot of popular podcasts, but like for the people who are seeking out like real conversations, like you can't fake that. You know what I mean? Like it's impossible. So that's kind of what I've been noticing without getting to meta my own podcast. How'd you flip this around, man? I always do that, man. It's the martial arts judo. It really is. And I know it's a big part of your life too. Well, dude, so I'm a curious person, man. I like asking questions.

You know, I think that's, I mean, you're a curious person as well. Like, why would you start a podcast if you weren't or why would you continue a podcast if you weren't? Well, that's the thing. Like it's, it's such a pew. First of all, it's a wonderful kind of trick and way to get people who you otherwise wouldn't be able to connect with, whether you want to knew you were going to connect with them or not is, it's just a really cool way to do that, especially if you've been doing it for a long time and people can see you're just not like a total schmucko. Like, you know, that is, it's kind of like a very powerful tool for kind of maybe getting some people like I was able to get Tim Heidegger on here, which in a million years I shouldn't have been able to do that.

But nobody, he's a super funny, famous dude and was like, it was a really great interview and a really nice guy and great to meet him. So, you know, that's one aspect of it. But the other thing is, is that like if you're talking to this many people on a regular basis, many of whom you don't know, that is going to change your life, like dramatically, you know, just whether you recognize it or not. And I think that's whether you have a podcast or not. You know, for anyone listening, like just do that as much as possible. You don't even have to put it out. I don't think everyone should have a podcast despite what people may think.

You know, I do think that if you can just broaden your horizons and realize that it's easier to speak to some people than you might would have, you know, thought possible, your life can be immensely enriched by that. And then like, you know, one of the other things I definitely want to talk to you about is this idea of like kind of surrounding yourself with the community of people who you think are doing cool things and help bring out you doing cool things. Because I know like if anyone has done that, it's certainly been you and what you're doing with Justin just kind of the extended crew out there.

I mean, like, was that, have you been doing that? Is that a function of you being an only child and trying to find the others? Hmm. Did I just break down your psychology? Sorry for the psychoanalysis. No, I like psychoanalysis and psychoanalysis. Um, yeah, I try to psychoanalyze people all the time, whether I'm, whether I'm conscious of it or not as well. So when it's flipped around on me, I think it's fascinating. And I don't take offense to it at all. Awesome. Yeah, I mean, it could be a symptom of me being an only child, you know, I think learning to be charismatic and learning to be liked by other people is probably a symptom of being an only child as well.

And also being attuned to social situations and understanding the context of social situations and essentially, like gaining friends and whatnot, um, but that's not, that sounds super robotic gaining friends. I am getting two friend units added to collection stored for later years. You are mine forever. That wasn't my intention to make it to everybody, but, uh, you know, you know, I mean, uh, yeah, I think, um, you know, it was, it was interesting because I was talking to Tunde Audubimpeh from TV on the radio. Yeah. I recently had a podcast where you show with him and I think that's it. You know, it's about trying to create with friends.

And if you can do that and people can pay you to do that, great, right? Yeah. Uh, I've even heard different podcasts. I heard this podcast with Gary Oldman, the actor. Oh, I love him. Yeah. I was talking about how, um, you know, he goes on set, he knows, generally knows most of the people from the grips from, um, you know, the lighting department and, uh, an art department and he's just friends with a lot of these people. And I think that's how you can, in any field in general is just to be able to, I mean, not in a fake way, but try to really like be empathetic and understand people. Yeah. Connect with people.

Yeah. And, um, you know, and I think that's just how you can be happy with continual output and to be able to nurture that continual output. You know, I was thinking about also just, um, that's kind of what keeps me going is yeah, the continual, nurturing the continual output. Yeah. I mean, I've noticed the same thing. I've, I've not, you know, in a creative collective per se, but, you know, what I've done just kind of naturally with my important network and just groups of friends in general is I don't think a lot of the things that I've done in life that later on looking back and like, Oh, that was a pretty cool thing.

Um, would have happened if I didn't have some level of encouragement or assistance from immediate, whether it's friends or family or just people I'm connected to. And that's like a really important thing to remember, because I think they can get to be very lonesome as like, and a person in life, especially where this technology kind of can isolate us, even though we're seemingly connected via the, it often it can be very difficult to, to realize just how important it is to really trace truly stay connected. And that's, you know, one of the reasons I appreciate our friendship so much, um, is because like, uh, well, no, I, I, it's true.

I've always been the type of person. It's the micro dose talking and see, I'm telling you, do the, do the, do the micro dose. It makes it. I love it, man. I love it. Yeah. Me too. Um, but I've always been the type of person who for better or worse than some friendships that they suffer for it. I'm not always on the phone with people all of the time, but I, I like my friends to know that if they ever really need me, if they ever really need to talk about something or do something, like I'm the type of person who is there. And that's like, you know, maybe viewed as, oh, we are not a great friend.

You're not connected all the time, but the ability to seamlessly move in and connect with people on a deep level, even if it's not often, I, I think is a really important skill, um, for people to kind of, because it's hard to stay connected. How many people are you supposed to have in a tribe before you lose? Like 150, right? After that, it's like your brain can't process the additional people supposedly, right? That's, that's, that's what, what the number is. I'm pretty sure with technology, that's quadruple. It's gotta be, right? I mean, like just like if you go by like a somewhat curated Facebook friends list, like I think I have like 900, maybe God knows how many, like, and I know these people.

These aren't randos. Like, I know that I've met and hung out with almost all of these people. It's like 700, 800 people. It's fucking insane. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, what I'm trying to get at is I think it's really, it underscores the real importance of finding your tribe, whether they're someone, because listen, they're going to be people listening who aren't in a big city who don't already have a group of people they're connected to, and they're like, well, where am I going to meet these people? It's, it's impossible. You know, I don't have an art collective near me. I don't have a podcast network where I can meet interesting people.

But if you just like find these people out there, you know, in the world who are doing shit that resonates with you, you'd be surprised how you can actually be a part of it in a really substantial way, because I think everyone is looking for this sense of community right now. We see it fracturing apart, and like every aspect of our life's better presented to us online, politics, culture, and all this stuff. But like, if you look at what people are really trying to do, they're just trying to come together more often than not. But yeah, I mean, I think it's really fucking cool, just the whole no wave thing.

I've just been so impressed with you and Justin, just how you kind of like put this thing together that it seems effortless. I know that it's not because I watched you guys like put together and get together the space for the event we did. So I know it's not effortless, but the vibe of the thing is like so fucking cool and pure that, you know, it's a pleasure knowing you guys. Oh, thanks, man. Yeah. I mean, I feel the same way, and it's interesting, you know, what you're saying about that sort of like tribal ideology, I think about that a lot. Yeah. And I also think about that stepping into other people's tribes.

And this is kind of a funny experience, but I was talking to Justin. Justin Hopkins. Yeah. That are listening out there. Justin Dasher Hopkins, now that he's married, very cool. Yeah. It legally changed his name, but yeah, but we were talking about how so and by the beach area in Redondo Beach, there's this kind of culture, certain tribal mentality over there of beach bros. Bro. And he's telling you about, you know, when he was in his 20s, he was over there and he's walking around and he was saying something about, oh, you know, like, look at all these douchebags, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And his, he was at the friend news and his friend saying, no, these are just, these, these are just regular people and we're the douchebags in the situation, right?

Because they are essentially infiltrating their tribe over there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think about that when I step into certain conversations, I mean, not that specifically but the tribal mentality. Yeah. And it were just kind of the energies off, at least to me, you know, the things that people talk about are not very appealing to me, you know, it may be more superficial or something or more materialistic of a conversation that I'm not very comfortable with talking about. Yeah. And, but I think it's very important, you know, to find your tribe and people that resonate with you because I think, I mean, that's, I forget exactly where I like, read this.

But there was a group of people, he was 10 different people on their deathbed and they were talking about how important connection and feeling connected to people was more than money and intercyx possessions. And yeah, I mean, I think that's true and it's good to be able to nurture that and to really hold close to people that love you and that you love, you know, and not just to take that for granted at all. Yes. Yes. And we'll also teach you that very clearly and presently. I mean, I, I personally, from my experiences, all personal experiential wisdom is that the thing that sustains what we view as the world is unconditional love completely.

That is what is actually holding this reality in existence. And then if you want to dice it, you know, if that's not satisfying for someone who's like, well, there's fucked up things in the world, I think more importantly, what really manifests and evokes the reality is the interplay between the light aspects of this reality and the darker kind of aspects that we all have within us and our external and our manifested out in the world. But that, you know, that is something that I think is, is a little too esoteric for most people to totally grok. But I think it's just been my experience every single time I really plumb the depths of my soul or the collective soul or anything like that.

It really does feel like a pretty safe space. You know, and it does feel that we're also somewhat constructed in bodies and in physical form. And if you can kind of just like be open to that as a potential possibility, it seems like life can open up in a lot of different mysterious and interesting ways, which I think everyone should, you know, have the benefit of experiencing as much as possible. So. Sure. Well, all right. Let's, uh, have three. This has been fun. This is, you know, this conversation was like, it was like, we had to like get an old car started and like we had to like work on it in the beginning and like, all right, let's get it going.

And it revved up and it revved up and it got better and better. And now we got like a awesome machine that's humming along the highway. For sure. Yeah. I think it's hard for me to contextualize certain things because my, a lot of my thoughts are kind of exists in the abstract, which is, I think, a reason why I make sort of like, or I'm attracted to surrealistic sort of art form, um, but I think that's also a reason for the podcast is trying to be able to get textualized and dissect random happenstance and put it into something that is, uh, more fluid, I guess. Yeah, man. That's a really, no, that's a really just cool theme.

That's, that's fucking cool, man. I get it. I really like it. Um, yeah, no, this has been really fun. So I, let's do the three questions. See if they line up from last time. What's your favorite color? Black man. Okay. That I know is the same. What's your favorite number? Ah, favorite number. Did you ask me this last time? It might have been before I started asking them, but I just, I'm almost positive. I knew it was black for your color. What's your favorite number? We'll see if they line up or if they exist. I don't know, man. I think, uh, I think I'll have to go to zero. Oh, that's an unusual number that almost no one picks.

You could also just say circle. Circle is zero. Uh, what is, what is your favorite animal? Favorite animal. I want to say a dog just because of the accessibility. Uh, you want to say that or are you, is that your final answer? Uh, that is, I think I'd like to say dolphin though. Nice. That's my favorite animal. Really? Yeah, it really is. Really is. Dolphins are extremely intelligent. They're incredibly, they're mystical too. They're incredible. I love dolphins. They're a shitty football team, unfortunately, uh, huge dolphins fan for football too. It's quite a hellish experience, but they're wonderful animals.

All right. Next question, uh, what's a practical tip that's helped you in your life that you could share with people listening? Could be, could be anything mundane, profound, anything practical tip. Don't worry, I'll, I'll edit out by 20 minutes of silence. Yeah, no, you knew you can take a long game is the episode over. I want that practical tip. Yeah. Uh, I really, I really believe in creating healthy habits, uh, creating healthy habits, but also being able to have the insight to know when you should break a habit. Mm. Mm. Next time, we'll talk about ways that you do that because that's an interesting, I mean, that's, that's something I think a lot of people work towards.

I mean, I just, uh, just to tack on to that. I have, I think in the past, since I've had Eli specifically been more aware of habits, both good and bad and the profound impact, if you can replace a bad habit with even just a neutral or good one, it's like compounding interest. So that's, that's a super interesting topic that we can explore next time. Yeah. I, I also want to, uh, I have so many, um, man, I have so many more questions for you, actually. All right. You can keep it going. I'm never one to turn down. You can ask questions here. Uh, well, okay. No, I will ask one question. What is your stance on unconditional love?

All right, this is a very, very personal and thankfully trauma healed situation in my life that could have easily gone another way, which could have been a very destructive path for me that God knows where it could have ended up. So my, my synchronicity experience where I was tripping for three months, I don't think I mentioned this in detail very often, but it was completely leading up to the months before, during and after permeated by a relationship to unconditional love, what I was calling unconditional love, both in its positive and negative impacts. And people could say, well, how could there be a negative impact of unconditional love?

That sounds impossible. Well, what happened was is I basically blasted myself open to like the worlds and souls of heart chakra, where you're just beaming love to be meeting randos on the street, just like people are coming up to me, attractive girls, homeless people. I'm just like this radiating beacon of like, you know, I've tuned in to some mystical truth and a manifestation of love. Yeah, truthfully. And like I've seen people who do this in their lives and some people move in and out of it. Some people will move in and out of it multiple times in a day. And I think that's constantly happening.

People will oscillate from this frequency. But anyway, I was locked into the frequency, like the radio dial got stuck on that channel, which is sounds like amazing and it was amazing and it feels amazing. But the problem is is hardly anyone around you is tuned to that dial for more than maybe like a day or maybe a week if they're in love or they're meeting someone. And everyone kind of knows what it feels like, just like if you've ever had a kid, if you've ever had someone you've loved in a relationship, you know what the kind of magical things that can happen around those time periods. So I was just stuck on that dial.

So of course, what do you think I'm doing? I'm going around telling everyone that the whole universe is unconditional love, that this is the basis for everything, that yes, you know, my peers are my friends in college and my friends from back home, you know, we'd meet on the holidays that, you know, Christmas and Thanksgiving holidays and I'm blasted, whacked out of my mind, talking about unconditional love. And they're like, oh, no, I lost it completely. So a lot of my relationships got fractured and kind of irreparably damaged. Not many, thankfully, but, you know, altered, I would say for some of them, some strengthened because I wouldn't shut up about unconditional love.

Something else that was going on is I was basically a group, like I was completely gullible and open and naive to everything to the point where I remember in college, I had these really nice pair of DJ headphones. And this dude who was clearly going to steal them, he was just like a shit bag from Florida. I knew he was going to steal them. He was basically making up this concocted story where he wanted to borrow them. But I let him have him to kind of like give him an opportunity to prove, you know, that he wasn't a bad guy. And of course he stole them, you know, it was just like stupid shit like that.

So I think when we're talking about unconditional love, it's like, it's really important to know that there is a sustaining kind of life force that really is a loving and warm and deep presence, but you can't just artificially or in a detached way tune into that and neglect the other aspect of whatever your responsibilities and life are. Now that varies depending on where you're from. If you grew up in this country, chances are you're going to be engaged with the material world in some way, whether you like it or not. And it's probably your pre-to-term karma that this is the way it's supposed to be.

So I find that if you try to escape that too much, it can have negative consequences. It can have, you know, alienating or disturbing ramifications in your life. And I think that that's why unconditional love has its dark and light side. Ultimately, I think like if you just trust in yourself and being is being the best person, remember the golden rule, treat people how you would want to be treated, you pretty much will be okay. It doesn't mean your life is going to be easy. It doesn't mean things are going to be fun all the time. It doesn't mean it's even going to be comfortable all the time, but trust that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.

I think where people get into a lot of trouble is they get, they have an experience that kind of like they're a good person and then like, you know, they get hurt somehow. So if they were being vulnerable, whether it's artistically, creatively in a relationship, if they get hurt, they'll withdraw and kind of like hold that wound and trauma with them for the rest of their life. And it's just not, I think there's too many people doing that. So when they hear a term like unconditional love, they're like, ah, that's bullshit. Like yeah, you can think that Mr. Naive person. So when I talk about unconditional love, like I do try to look at it as from many different perspectives as possible and not just this kind of like, yeah, everything's going to be great.

It's unconditional love. It's like, oh, well, we're also still in a world that we can easily agree. It's not just unconditional love all the time. So yeah. Yeah. I like it. Yeah, man. All right, man. Well, until next time, thanks for having me on your podcast, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Secretness to be by Yoshino. Yeah. Exactly. That's this episode. All right, dude. Thanks so much. We'll talk soon, man. Let's let's connect. And just so people will put this out there in the world, we're going to do something out by you guys in the not too distant future. I just got to figure out when. So cool, man.

Sounds great. All right, buddy. All right. I'll talk to you later. [MUSIC PLAYING] Thanks for listening to this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. Go check out Yoshino@artist, hyphendecoded.com. Can I make sure that I get this right? I'm very prepared. As you can see, let's see if my memory, no hyphen made that up. Artistdecoded.com. Go check it out on iTunes. Again, some really fucking cool interviews there. So go check him out. If you want to support the show, rate and review it. That's it. No more Patreon stuff. Yes, please. It means donate if you feel so obliged to do so. But truthfully, just rate and review, I think the more this show can get out there, the better it is for everyone.

Oh, god, that sounds super egotistical. But I have experienced that my experience has been that the more people who hear this show, the more feedback I get, the validate experiences that they've had, related to scarcity, or it's still always terms of not being kind of the feel, or late there, or take a spirit out or perceive. A lot of times, like, when we talk this end of the episode, you'll be like, oh, shasm, pause. A lot of times, can't fall like. You're getting pissed by one who knows everything. Oh, the DQ you don't know. I think it's to the real person. I have also problems of people thinking that move and that are qualified, or ways to impon other people in a structured format.

And quickly, does that lead to adopting a particular sona, or ego getting infant, thinking that you got the gift, do the touch. And it's great to feel good. And I think people who genuinely help people, they should feel good. But it's in stone's throw from kind of taking that a little bit too far. So again, I think it's refreshing. In my experience, when I hear people talk about that, and that's why I've been trying to talk about it as much as possible. So I've really, for the best thing you can do for this show, rate and review it, tell a friend who you think would like it, tell someone who you think might enjoy it.

And if they wouldn't, that's cool. There's no big deal. But that is an honest request from me, which I rarely do on this show. But that's it, feeling pretty good. I will see you next week.