Ep. 91 - Art, Grace, Joy and Ease with Jamie Gaviola

[Music] There really is a stream of wisdom, trying to whisper to reach in every one of us all the time, and if we just ask a question, you know, and then be aware and look around for the answer, but that can start you off in a very beautiful magical journey. This is synchronicity, this is synchronicity, this is synchronicity, this is synchronicity, this is synchronicity, this is synchronicity, this is synchronicity. [Music] [Music] Welcome to episode 91 of Synchronicity, my guest this week is artist Jamie Gaviola, and we'll get to Jamie in just a second, but talk about a wonderfully lovely human being, that is what Jamie is.

Let's go over a few little things, thank you to all the new patrons on Patreon who are supporting, the get my music level seems to be pretty popular, a reminder, you can get every song, every little clip, everything you hear on this show, by signing up for the $9 level, recurring, a month, synchronicity Patreon thing. This is maybe the worst pitch of all time, but really if you like the music on the show, that's a good level, people seem to be happy about it. As a bonus, when I release my EP later this year in the fall, everyone who is on that level will get it for free. Well not really free, you're paying 9 bucks a month, but still, you know what I mean.

Another thing, I am now opening up creative evolution, this is my course on how to start and maintain a creative practice. Jamie was a big inspiration for me re-watching this, so what I'm going to do is this, I'm holding off the actual interactive course until the fall. I'm going to develop some content funnels, really pitched this to people who really want it, not just you guys listening to this who have no idea what I'm talking about potentially, but I'm really going to work on it and make sure it hits the right people. That said, if you're interested in taking the email version of it, which is over the course of 28 days, you will get a series of email and then at emails about basically the full course. It's 12 chapters instead of 13.

You get the whole thing. So what I'm going to do today, starting today, I'm going to reduce the price. The original price of the email course was $85 and I had some people pay for it and they were very happy with it and felt it was a good deal. But what I'm going to do, I'm dropping the price big time. I don't know how much percentage off this is, but I'm going to make it 20 bucks. So if you want to get the course for 20 bucks, go to sinkpodcast.com/holyshit. Seriously, that's the URL, sinkpodcast.com/holyshit. Calling it holy shit because it's a ridiculous deal. It's kind of like the used cars salesman type of offer.

But, you know, this way you can sign up whenever you're hearing this, even if it's two years in the future. Wow, what an amazing future we live in, huh? You can get it. So it's available there. I'm going to leave it up at that price, at least until the fall. I think it's a really good offer. If you're looking to start a creative practice, if you've been meaning to write something, make some music, start a website, start a blog, start a podcast, start a business idea, go ahead and do that. The other piece of information related to that is when the full course launches, you will also get a discount if you want to participate in the original or full interactive or immersive versions of the course.

Okay, so that's it. I got that out of the way. Feel pretty good about it. Yeah. So let's talk about Jamie and Jamie's art and how incredible this conversation was and how much I really needed it at the time we were having it. As I mentioned, I've been going through a relatively rough period, the past few months. I've been trying to figure out how to pivot my career as a professional where I know I have valuable skills. I've made people hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars doing this stuff, but I want to be doing something that I really think is making a change in the world. So that's been a very difficult struggle for me. And this conversation, Jamie really just brings it back down to the ground that there is something out there that helps us.

It's grace, it's joy and it's ease. And these three principles, if we can remember them and hold on to them through everything we do in our life can be so incredibly helpful. And it can also alleviate this feeling that tends to creep in when we're not doing well of being alone, which is just never the case. You're never really alone. That's the truth. So yeah, there's so I'm not going to recap the entire conversation. You'll hear Jamie is an artist living in New York. She makes incredible mandalas, just really beautiful stuff. She also has a way of painting and creating her art to music, which I think is this wonderful synthesis of these two energetic principles, this visual representation of the sonic energy that's being played.

And really, it's quite a cool thing. Check her out on Instagram. There are going to be links to all of this stuff, her stuff on Facebook, on Instagram, really some truly awesome transformative stuff. And mandalas hold a very special place in my heart. And you'll hear in this conversation from a very early age. I've been unknowingly drawing or doodling one specific mandala over and over and over again. When I was going through some very, very heady psychological times about 10, 15 years ago, I couldn't stop drawing it. It was like just coming from within. And if you know anything about mandalas, they are a visual representation of a state of unity. They incorporate many different elements and it's kind of like a bird's eye view of whatever the mandala is about.

There are symbolic representations of ourselves and the interconnectedness of everything. Some mandalas are really cool. They're actually 2D depictions of 3D structures. So, I'll go into that a little bit later. So, anything else? No, I don't know. I try to keep these intros relatively short. Thank you to everyone who has donated. Become a patron on Patreon, reviewing, rating, joining the email community, the Facebook community. All this stuff can be found at sinkpodcast.com. We're growing here at the podcast. I mentioned it. I think last month was a record month. This month is another record record record.

This is another record month. So, things are going really well with this podcast. MindPod Network is blowing up. We have a live event taking place August 17th from 6 to 10 p.m. in New York City. It's going to be at Noi House. So, that is N-E-U-E House. Tickets are not available yet. We'll probably be announcing tickets and sales of tickets in just a couple weeks, probably a month before the event. You can expect those. You guys, as listeners to this podcast, will be the first to hear about it. I'm seeing as I'm the person pretty much organizing it. You definitely will be the first people to hear about it.

I'm looking forward to meeting a lot of you for the first time, reconnecting with a lot of you. Plus, it's just in the city. It's going to be super fun. We're bringing a ton of people together. All of your favorite MindPod network people will be there. I've already locked them down. Even the people all the way across the country. They're coming in. So, that's going to be really fun. I'm really excited about that. We have some other cool little events things in the work. So, things are looking good. This episode is sounding good and looking good. How about we get right to it? So, without further ado, here is Jamie Gabiola.

Well, thank you so much for coming on. I'm sorry we didn't get to connect in person when we had a plan a few weeks ago. But I'm really happy we're getting to do this because you popped up on my radar even before. You kind of reached out and we connected. I've seen your art on social media and on Instagram and it's really cool. It's really, really awesome. So, I'm super happy and grateful we get a chance to connect like this. I really appreciate your time. So, we were talking a little bit before. We had a conversation about a month ago about some potential topics but you just also sent me a list.

And the first thing that really stood out to me was the first thing on your list was living gracefully in a state of synchronicity. And I know what that means to me but I would love to hear what that means to you. Absolutely. Three words came up for me as a personal mantra a while back. And it was grace, joy and ease. And ease, I think I've figured out through the art joy through the music. And grace is associated with yoga but yoga permeates every area of your life. I've heard you speak about your time when synchronicity was so apparent. And I also had experiences like that. And at first it really surprised me.

But over the course of the last like seven years I've gradually come to, it went from complete surprise in the wilderness at the synchronicity to okay, this is happening again. Okay. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. So now it's just like a common way that the world is for me. And yeah, so it's kind of like Terrence McKenna's quote, you know, don't give way to astonishment, you know, in the psychedelic state, you know, the world itself has become a psychedelic experience to a certain extent. So just keeping my cool. And I love, I love that you just brought all of that up because I've often, I think for, for those of, for people listening who have gone through this, these experience of, of either whether it's tremendous ecstasy or all or just a permanent state of synchronicity where it's just like such a magical thing that it's like, Oh my God, and it's, it is, it's bewildering.

That's a great word to use for it because it's just not how most of us experience or experience life. But not giving way to astonishment or all is kind of a prerequisite for beginning to really investigate what is driving the synchronicities and trying to get to that state of kind of equanimity or equilibrium where we can approach this stuff with like kind of a practical, graceful way. And I love that like grace is such a tricky word in the West. It's like the hardest. It's like something that, you know, faith is an aspect of prerequisite for it. If you really want to understand it and faith is another kind of dirty word in our culture for the most part.

But it is so important. And when you are kind of experiencing waves of grace, it is. It's an amazing experience. I mean, what, what was it like? Do you have specific kind of instances of synchronicities where it feels like this stuff is kind of washing over you? Well, first of all, that was very eloquent. And I would just say that I'm curious to explore further your idea of the meaning or origin or, you know, purpose. I think you mentioned somewhere in there of synchronicity. Yeah, I'm curious about that. But yeah, I think, for example, my memory isn't great, but a common occurrence of example of living in synchronicity is, for example, I'm holding, I'm in a hurry and I need to get out the door.

And I'm holding this little stack of business cards. And Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have a little package for this? And I turn around and there's an exact size, clear little envelope sitting there on the desk and I put the cards in and I give it to you. And it ends up impressing the person that I was handing it to, et cetera, et cetera. So this is like every day. You know what I mean? Yes, I really do. And in terms of the practicality of that, I mean, obviously, there's an example of synchronicity serving kind of the flow of your day. But I also have been kind of tuning into this idea of synchronicities, rather than just being these magical kind of mystical things that happen. And it's like, wow, look at those. They can serve as a bit of a confirmation or validation that you're kind of in the right place or doing the right thing.

I found that in particularly acute states of like really feeling in the flow, whether it's creating music or art or in conversation, synchronicities tend to flourish around. And even in the recent conversation I had with Jerry Brown from the psychedelic gospels, he was saying that because like this, you know, they were talking about mushrooms popping up in iconography throughout all of history and Christianity. And that's a crazy thing to like, you know, that's like a tripped out thought that maybe one investigates for a little bit. But when it starts popping up around you, that's like kind of a scary road to go down.

But what he ultimately was saying was validation for him and his wife as they were working on this is there were so many instances of synchronicity where they would just see something and the next day someone would bring it up or they'd be discussing something. And then that thing would appear right, you know, so close to it that it was confirmation for them. So I think at this point, there is kind of a practical benefit, or at least in my mind, there is a practical benefit to these synchronicities. But it's also one of these things like Carl Jung, you know, you spoke about this a lot like you're not going to be able to empirically prove the validity or usefulness of something like a synchronicity, right, because it inherently is conditional on your relation to it, right?

Your relationship to it, you're witnessing of it, you're experiencing of it. So to try to replicate that in any real, you know, empirical ways is pretty much impossible. That obviously doesn't mean that these things don't happen. They don't have a function. And I do think it's very much linked to this idea of grace. I mean, I guess let's try to define this a little bit. What does the word grace mean to you? Absolutely. I hear you. Grace for me, I guess, would be living in that fringe between the world's patterns and, you know, our experience of them subjectively. So I, just as you were saying, I could use an example from my own life with the mandala art, you know, and a lot of creative people come up upon this, especially writers and stuff. There's a lot of evidence.

But, you know, I started painting mandalas, you know, it just came out and I didn't know anything about mandalas or anything like that, you know, and then people were like, oh, that's what you're doing. And then I joined in the conversation. So it's a grace is that dance of authenticity in your own synchronous path without, you know, manipulating it to adhere to the already existing patterns, I guess. That is such an amazing way of putting it. I mean, because trying to kind of contort this stuff to fit your idea of what something should be or how you've been doing it. That is a guaranteed, you know, recipe for friction in your life.

That's, that's really, really important too. It's interesting in the mandalas because I, when I was going through that very intense period where everything was a synchronicity just tied together, you know, for months on end, after I kind of crashed and came down from that state and actually it was pretty low. I went to go see a psychiatrist because I, you know, I had to figure out like, what the hell is going on? Well, really, my mom was like, you have to figure out what's going on. There's something wrong with you. It's like, oh, yeah, I'll go figure it out. And I consistently remember drawing over and over.

There's a specific mandala. I continue to draw to this day. It's like my go to doodle and I did it in school and I remember specifically then that's all I could draw over and over. It's like a square, then there's triangles around it, then I connect them, then there's another triangles, then there's a square. And I kept doing it over and over again. And then I, you know, I had already read about Jung's, you know, how much importance he placed on mandalas and all of these things too, but it really began to crystallize that these things are springing forth from somewhere much deeper than our conscious mind.

And just by the act of witnessing and letting them emerge and then, you know, looking at them, that has a profound effect, not only on our psyche, but really our entire being. And I would love to go into this with your art because you, you know, create some of the most beautiful mandalas I've ever seen. And I also what has been striking, but how you create a lot of these things is the connection they have with music that you paint kind of inflow with music often and it creates this beautiful kind of like synergy between it. How did that emerge for you? Was it over time? Was it just something that felt natural? I'm fascinated by this.

Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, it's it's it's mandalas are a amazing, connective art form. As a matter of fact, there was a psychologist Kellogg with two G's and she did a study of mandalas across culture and ages and economic strata and found that children given any writing implement, whether it's a stick in the sand or pencils typically you know, mandalas and then of course they they're all over the religions and so forth. But what was the question? Oh, yeah, music. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. I would say that music and color and emotion are are analogous. So I'm able to to create a mandala that's somewhat prescriptive for the energetic needs of the client. So they'll tell me, okay, I need to work on more balance in my life or more courage or so forth, you know, different things and what colors and symbols they're attracted to.

And that gives me like a profile of what what would be helpful to amplify in their life. Wow. And you know, music can give us the same thing and colors speak so much. So the musical notes, the scales communicate so much. The colors communicate so much. And yeah, so well, this is, it's like a song, I guess. That I love that because another thing, you're bringing me back to my days of my synchronicity days, the origin of all this stuff. I had synesthesia when I was going through this. So when a note would be played on a keyboard or a guitar or a chord, I would see colors right in my mind's eye. And when I close my eyes, I'd actually see the colors.

And it's something that I was playing with. Like, I wanted to see if this was just my subjective interpretation or did they correspond to some other thing that was independent of that. And sure enough, like, I had the root notes of the chord. Like, I'll remember to this day, like, you know, the note C in the Western chord was red, D was orange. Like, I literally could go up the whole thing. And so when you talk about these things being analogous and including emotion in there, that's incredibly poignant. And the ability of music and art in general to change and kind of tune our consciousness is why I'm so interested and find myself drawn to it, both as a creator and kind of a consumer. Because, you know, it happened to me today. I was in a kind of a crappy mood. I went on a jog. It was nice. It was hot. I had my headphones on.

And then at a certain point, a song came on and it just my entire body started feeling like it was tingling. You know, I was getting a sense of interconnectedness with the nature around me and my breathing. And it was all kind of brought up and it completely shifted my entire state, whereas I was in kind of like a nasty, grumpy mood. I came back from the run and was like, I apologize to my wife for getting kind of a short with her. And I really, like, it was the genesis that kind of changed it. And so when you talk about these things being analogous, like, how did you come to some of these kind of insights in your own life?

Thank you. Wow. That's so beautiful. Yeah. Music can change so much. Oh, gosh. It's pretty awesome. Wow. FYI, the album you sent me is amazing. I was going through it. I mean, just as I started on the first one with Neptune and went all the way through. And Jupiter, like you said, is an amazing song. And I'll have a link to it in this episode because, holy crap, that's what a meditative album. I was only like halfway through. But wow. I'm excited to tweet to it. Yeah. Planet, planet. What's it called? Planetarium. Yeah. Yeah. Well, coming back to the three, you know, core, I had to choose as a creative person were like, if we're really tapped in, it's like this font of creativity.

You know, it can be very dramatic and messy. And I had to at some point narrow down my creative, you know, choices. I had to choose, you know. And it was actually a point where I said, okay, I accepted the desire of my heart. You know, this desire was planted in me like a seed to create with paint and so forth. You know, everyone has a desire, you know, inside their heart, a good path for them. So that merged with the yoga in the meditation that I was practicing. And the music was the grace of it, you know, allowed the grace and allowed me to enjoy the process. So my desire, my, I allowed myself a desire and that was to be creative and maintain the meditative state.

You know, to be at the easel, open without judgment. And just to let it happen, the way it works. So, yeah. So out of that, out of that lack of judgment, I think a lot of this maybe insights came, I guess. That's awesome. And it just, it occurred to me as you were saying that, that, you know, the medium you work on, you know, it's what's supported by is the easel, which sounds like ease, which is one of your things. It's pretty cool. That's awesome. I mean, to me, and we were talking about this a little bit before about a potential thing to talk about is how creativity really in some ways is at the core of any spiritual or internal work.

That aspect of a lot, like you said it yourself, allowing yourself to non-judgmentally pursue what you desired in your heart. That's huge. It's not crafting something that you create and then pursue. And then, you know, you've created this whole thing and then want to do it. You're allowing this to kind of flow from within you. And I also, you touched on it, this kind of fount of creativity or the wellspring. I'm glad you spoke of it as kind of an overwhelming thing because I think it's the same thing that can make, you know, mental illness appear in certain people. It is a very powerful kind of primordial force. And if you don't have the proper kind of approach or, you know, system or protocol for dealing with it, it can be overwhelming and manifest in any number of ways.

So that's, I mean, it's awesome. So like yoga was, it seems like was a big gateway for you towards integrating or kind of understanding or allowing these things to emerge. When did you start doing yoga? When I was about 18. And I joke that, you know, I got over or dealt with a lot of my karma within the first 18 years of my life. That's another conversation. Oh, just overlapped. Oh, I heard my own voice. It's so weird. It only sounds weird to you. It sounds great to everyone else. Oh my God. Okay. So, yeah. So, yeah. So I started yoga. I went into a class in Santa Barbara that was led by someone who had studied in India for a number of years and just came out of there feeling taller, feeling capable, feeling balanced.

My body, you know, and non-body sort of more integrated. Yeah. So it's been just an incredible journey from then on. I highly, highly recommend people to try it, you know, gentle classes to start and try several teachers. It's kind of like a chiropractor, you know, there are, you know, or something like that or psychologist, you want to try out a few things until you find the right one for you. Yeah. That's just a good maxim for life too. Just try out things until you find the one that you resonate with. It's true. I mean, I am not actively practicing yoga now, but I did when I was much younger, like 15, 16, I went to classes regularly.

And I just remember the profound benefits of just being a little more in touch with your body and your breath and how movement and kind of just consciousness and awareness surrounding that really just has such a tremendous impact on how we perceive things and how we kind of filter through our experiences through the day. And I've, it's been a recurring theme on this podcast. I'm sure you've heard. There's a lot of people who yoga was really kind of their gateway drug to a lot of this stuff, whether it was finding a teacher or a specific practice or certain ideas. Like it really, you know, it's funny because as you know, in this country at this point, I mean, it's passé to say it. I mean, the yoga movement just became all consuming 10, 15, 20 years ago, whenever it happened.

So a lot of people kind of just look at it as either, you know, a new age thing or something we do for exercise, but, you know, Patanjali, the yoga is the eight limbs of yoga. This isn't just like Asanas. This is a whole kind of way of being that filters in and goes through your entire life, which is when you do find that teacher who can do that, it really is such a transfer transfer form, transfer formative. That's not a word, transfer formative thing. You had another thing on the list that I don't, I know I'm kind of jumping around here, but like truthfully, the list of topics you sent over, like I am all, all of those.

I am incredibly interested in lucid dreaming. Are you a lucid dreamer? I have definitely explored that path. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for a time, I was reading, you know, Carlos Castameda and another gentleman who I'll look up to see right now. And, yeah, it came to a point where I had a frightening experience and subconsciously turned off the dreaming state for like three years. Yes. Yes. So I'm just now starting to get back into it. And the ironic thing is that I'm finding that during the night, my dreams are either nonexistent or purely that metaphor dream that takes a while to unpack and it's so devoid of daily residue that it's clearly, you know, a message that you pay attention. Right. You know, meanwhile during the day, I'm, you know, I think this is the converse that I don't have that stream of consciousness.

I don't have that mind chatter of thought going, which is like, I think it's analogous to not having the regular daily residue dreams. And the downfall of that is that my memory is like really shot like you can't, I mean, you can't expect me to remember anything. It's memory is one of these really weird things in this connection between our dream state and kind of discursive thinking and memory is a really, really interesting one because I and many other people I know find it like, at least in my own personal timeline, like if there weren't markers where I graduated or I knew that I met someone on that specific date, my own chronology.

I have such a difficult time putting things in place linearly, which leads to like memory gaps in all of these things. And it's hard to explain. But truthfully, I feel like that's the more natural state of how time works. We construct the linearity in our minds. And that's why maybe for some of us, it's just not easy to kind of be act or think from that place. That's interesting. Yeah, I mean, I think it's just something I've noticed. I also have, you know, a tremendous amount of, you know, interest in how cannabis affects dreaming too. And my ideas there primarily center around that when you take any psychoactive, but especially cannabis, it kind of blurs the line between the dream state, what you do at night or when you're sleeping and real life. And because, right. And because that happens, that's some of the reasons that a lot of people think, or, you know, it is cannabis is a dream suppressant.

So a lot of people just like do not, especially if you stop smoking in a regular smoke or a regular ingestor, your dreams come back crazy, like the most vivid, intense symbols you can ever imagine. And I think that might have something to do with that because I don't look at dreaming as some functional process in the Freudian way, like we're just digesting our subconscious stuff that we pick up through the date. To me, they seem like very real realms packed with information and kind of experience that can be beneficial to us. I mean, I don't want to prod you too much on it, but what, and if you don't want to talk about that solely.

You can get off the dreaming aspect of your life. Thank you. Well, I was practicing a certain technique where you're in a dream, you become lucid, and then you look around for things that are sort of adjacent to reality or like stand out a little bit. And then you zoom into there, and it takes you into a whole other world. Right. So, you know, and then you go from there and you can kind of keep going. But it was, I was asleep. So I was practicing that regularly. I was asleep. I was awoken by, like, light. I mean, this sounds so freaking cliche, but it's not light that you could see, but it was just like, it felt like moonlight coming toward my chest and, and I felt, and I woke up.

I was like, why, you know, and then I felt like my soul was going to go up, like go up into the light and go up out. And so I got scared. And then all of a sudden these, like hands came and closed my chest and protected me. Yes. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Would you have any ideas of what that may be or what that may mean? Well, I've built my courage now to, to approach the subject again. And I've been looking into, you know, astral travel, right, right. Things like that, just studying the theory of it and things a little bit. And, you know, so I am afraid, you know, I do, I have to say, I have to fear one that, I mean, these are more topics that you might not want to need to introduce.

You know, a, our point of intention. I, I, somewhere in my subconscious, I doubt the intention of outside sources. I guess I think that's totally valid fear, not to defeat it. But I mean, I think that that's a natural kind of tendency, especially when we're talking about leaving our body. The only experiences I have with any type of astral travel or really lucid dreaming where I could say I was fully lucid in control. And I had a dream where it was kind of like that last night, but not totally. Like I knew it was a dream. Like it was very different than some of my like zero gravity dreams where we can play with like the physics of the world. I remember being like snapping my fingers and being like, there's no gravity. And then I jumped up and then like could float.

And then was like, impressing off my friends in the dream. I'm like, look how cool I am. Like, like, this is a great use of this. Let's just go around and, and show off. But when I was very young, I hadn't experienced like, I must have been like five or younger, really some of my earliest memories. And I remember this very deep, loud, kind of resonant, like what I now recognize maybe is kind of like a Tibetan, like, like that, but constant droning. And I was young. And I remember this feeling of kind of like being vertically or horizontally aligned with this grid. All these like billions of points of light, just like little dots, but it was a grid and there was space in between them. And I would hear that. And that's how I would wake up.

Or like get back into my body. So I don't have any conscious remembrance of what I was doing when I was disconnected or not in my body, so to speak as consciousness. But that impression constantly still stays with me. I bring it up because I remember at a certain point getting terrified of it every single time because it was such a jarring experience to kind of reintegrate. And obviously I'm a little kid. I don't have words like reintegrate into my body at my disposal. It's just like feels like something. But luckily as we grew up, we can develop these skills to communicate with other people. But as it relates to fear is it's a terrifying prospect because when you may be dragged out of your body or your soul might be, that might mean physical death.

It might mean some other type of, you know what I mean? It's a very scary kind of experience that for anyone to go through. So I really get that. And let's say let's talk about this. I do think there are forces while not at their core, malevolent, or maybe there are different realms of existence where beings don't have our best intentions at heart. That I think is in a dualistic universe sense, right? Ultimately we can talk about how that is not really true. But if we're talking about living in a dualistic universe where we're traveling out of our bodies, meeting different beings, not all of them are going to be for us to reach our highest potential in a positive and uplifting way.

So I think in that way it is kind of a natural fear. I'm always interested in talking to people who can astral project or can remote view or lucid dream regularly because I think there's such a rich thing. I think there's such a richness to those worlds that transcends that place and where we are in 3D reality that it's amazingly useful. I feel like we're just scratching the surface too of it. So that's why I am always like, how long did it take you to lucid dream or was it spontaneous? I feel if somebody is interested in that, keeping the dream journal and reading up on it and just paying attention to your dreams, we all have the capacity and it's a really quick process to get going.

Definitely. It's already there. It's blatant in everyone I think. I know. I am careful much like you. I refer to it as provoking or prodding the unconscious. I was talking about this with someone else. I think it was yesterday and I was like, listen, it was Michael Phillip. We were doing it on a podcast and from third eye drops and I was saying, you know, I tell people the same thing, like you can get in touch with your own unconscious. You can get in touch with the collective unconscious. Just be aware that it's going to have an impact on your life. It's not going to like just stay there and you're going to go take a peek of it and then go back and it's all going to be fine.

You're uncovering layers of reality and with that comes change and some of it not anticipated, which is true when we're talking about things, we shine lights on them. But if you really want to do this stuff, you can. You know, you know what I'm talking about. It's nuts. I mean, it's just one of those things I will never forget. Reading young for the first time and just not fully consciously understanding what I was reading, kind of getting little dribs and drabs of it, but then my dreams first going out of just things I had never experienced. Then my external reality, the physical world, the experiences I was having, not me doing those things, but just the world and my perception of it just began to drastically change.

And, you know, I think that that is something that's available to all of us if we desire it in reality. Absolutely. It makes life so rich and magical. Yeah, it really does. So what you're calling Carl Jung fan? Yeah, to a certain extent. Absolutely. I mean, I haven't delved into the literature as much as you, but absolutely. I know about the red book. I know about his active dreaming where I stayed awake and so forth. I just did want to mention your touch on your web of lights if that's okay. Yes, yes. Yeah, back in, you know, when I was a teenager, I had a really profound experience with psychedelics and that was the vision that I saw.

And again, it's like the mandala. It's like, it's another one of these, you know, pervasive symbols or metaphors, the matrix, the, you know, yeah, so that's just really, I just had to honor that. Yeah, it's, it's one of these things like, and that's why it provokes such a deep resonance, I think, because, you know, when you're a kid or you have a psychedelic experience or there's a tendency, and this is why I love the topic of spiritual materialism so much. There's a tendency when we're talking about whether it's metaphysical, paranormal, mystical, transcendent, is to find a framework for what we're going through and then identify with it and then construct certain things.

And people, not everyone does this and not everyone does it to the same degree, but a lot of the times we want to fit our persona, or how we are in the world into something that already exists, which is why it's always a lovely thing. It's always a lovely and confirming, much like a synchronicity experience. When these things happen well before we had any conscious intention to do that, so when you're a kid or when you're on psychedelics and you're not controlling the situation, it's, you know, coming from within, or there's something happening that you're not dictating what's going on. The more of those things that happen, I think the more kind of establishes this thread of faith and kind of belief that this is something that's not being kind of generated by our own mind or our own subjectivity, but it is something that's universal, like a mandala or a web of lights or a certain fractal appearing or the geometric patterns in nature. And I think that those things in particular, they confirm our deepest experiences, the peak experiences, and that to me is like an amazingly beautiful thing.

And I mentioned something that I know we wanted to talk about. Let's talk about math and patterns in nature. That one came out naturally. I have so many thoughts on this between the golden ratio and all that, but what are your observations for how our reality is shaped through patterns and mathematics? Oh, wow, that's beautiful. That's a big, big topic. I definitely had an experience in the redwoods in California camping and just coming upon this field of ferns that are so mathematically precise, each one has its own space and it's a, I believe it's a golden ratio, but then once you start seeing these patterns, they're everywhere. And you realize, you know, it's like you do realize that you're walking in this cohesive, almost like, you know, that, you know, people who are into computers, think of it as like a computer or something. Right, right, right. You know, we, so, yeah, we're all, yes. We're just seeing the miraculous, I would say. And again, an aspect of validation for that, what we believe, I mean, let me ask you just point blank question.

I've been asking this for people to see the responses. I mean, what do you think we're doing here on earth? You know, what's going on? Lord. I'm going to pin you down to this answer. Yeah. What are we doing here on earth? Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah, I think that we are privileged to exist in a beautiful body with an amazing mind and to live at the, you know, precipice between the scene and the unseen consciousness and the material world. And I think we're here to enjoy it. Yes. And to be grateful for it. And that, you know, yeah, not just not to judge it. Right. Just gratitude. The universe loves gratitude and rewards it.

I mean, I couldn't know that more, which is why when this has happened to me in the past couple weeks, especially where I kind of not lose access to gratitude, but I have these gratitude reminders that I set up on my phone. So every, you know, two times a day, something will pop pop up on my phone. It says gratitude. Most of the time, I'll be like, Oh, let me take this moment to find something I'm grateful for, even if it's not happening in the moment. But when I've been in a very kind of negative mind state and just kind of a despondent depressive mind state, when those things pop up, my reaction isn't to go, Oh, yeah, here's my gateway towards feeling a little bit better.

But my mind goes, fuck that. I don't want to be grateful or anything. I'm upset right now. And that kind of, that to me is the self indulgence of the negative mind state. And it's something that I think we all deal with because, you know, as much as I would like to say everyone can reach this baseline state of joy and equanimity. And I think we all can. Most of us as humans placed in the culture that we're in, we oscillate. And that's part of being human too. But I love what you're talking about with the gratitude. It's like a life hack. It's the biggest life hack ever. It's the one thing that I know when you get in kind of these gratitude feedback loops as I call them.

That is like, that's what it's all about that I couldn't agree more. Yeah, gratitude is like kind of, yeah, it's like a hack, you know, it's a law. It's a law, right? But I would disagree with the negative emotion, you know, having judgment around that. I think that it's just another color. It's just another note. I don't judge different types of music or anything. You're sorry. You're a wise wise person. I have tremendous amount of trouble. I still, my still the things that I'm working on in my life are being able to forgive people who I think have wrong to me. It's just incredibly difficult for me.

Thank you for working with me. I'm trying as much as possible because it's like the most important thing. And I can do it to extents, but I'm also very clever and can trick myself into thinking I've forgiven someone. And then I totally haven't because something will happen. It'll be like, ah, but you're right. I mean, this aspect of non-judgmental awareness is so critical. You said it yourself. You don't judge a piece of music if it sounds different than you expected to. You don't go out. This is a rhombos thing. You don't go out into the forest and judge a tree because it's crooked a little bit.

It's just a tree. So allowing ourselves to not judge these names. And like, I know it. Thank you for disagreeing, by the way, because you're right. And you're totally right. If we can allow, well, if we can allow these things to happen and not judge, non-judgmentally interact with them, that's the alchemy. That's the alchemy. Then we start, then we view kind of the dissonant notes in the chord, not as a wrong note, but it's something that kind of then turns into a harmonious sound. I mean, that's fucking amazing. You said that. Thank you. I love your music, by the way. Thanks. It's just a matter of getting myself over to your, to what's it called? Where you subscribe?

I want to be on the news. Oh, the Patreon thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love music. It's really awesome. It's something that I think impacts just about everyone, whether they realize it. I'm always shocked when there's someone who's not into music. Not like they need to be super into it, but they're just like, no, I don't really listen to them. Who are you? And what are you? Why are you here? What is going on? I mean, so let's talk about something we've kind of been beating around the bush about here, which is this idea of Sangha community and the interconnectedness of all of these things. Because we've moved through God knows how many topics ranging from creativity, art, dreams, to math to, but this interconnectedness of it all.

And I can hear it just from the way you speak and the tone of your voice. Like, you know what's up. What has led you to this belief of this kind of unity or interconnectedness of everything that we exist in? Well, again, a very large. Yeah. Let's see. It was enjoying those experiences of synchronicity, seeing the patterns and things. And with the help of sacred texts, I would say too, that came to me in a synchronic way. Of course. So that's one thing that I hope for everyone that, you know, the right books, the right texts, the right experiences will light up for you, you know, when they feel right to go for them.

And one after the other, after the other, without getting attached to them. And yeah, teachers are everywhere and we're all teaching each other too. That is so true. That is so true. What are some texts that have been particularly helpful for you? For me personally, yeah, the Carlos Castaneda was amazing. I did go through the course of miracles on my own. And Joseph Campbell myths and articles. Yes. I mean, I used to read Nietzsche as a teenager and stuff like that. Yeah, I haven't explored Nietzsche so much. I always kind of, yeah, yeah, it's kind of angsty, but yeah, but then I've listened, you know, thousands of hours of Terrence McKenna and yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that'll, that'll do it. The power of now is a good one. Yes. One of my favorites. Yeah. So I mean, I could go on and on. There's, yeah, do you have a book list somewhere? I do have a reading list, but I need to update it because I've read a lot more books since I first put it up. It's on the website somewhere. I think I had a link up on the menu, but I'll put it back somewhere else. But yeah, I mean, reading is just one of those things that when the right book finds you much like the right piece of music or the right art or the right person. Like when it hits you in that way, it just completely is like a cataclysmic event and really just changes your perspective.

It's one of my favorite things, you know, with the written word or even speaking when it comes to Terrence. And Terrence, since he's been referenced a couple of times here, and I think me and Michael must have referenced him like ten times. We did a double cast yesterday and Terrence, you know, not everything he said is true, not everything he said is, he believed, but he had such a unique ability for provoking thought in other people and provoking imagination. And that alone is like one of the most profound skills that you can have like ever. It's just an incredible thing. So I don't want to miss something that I think is really important here before we get to the end and ask you my questions, which is you're doing well as an artist.

And I don't just mean that from like a financial standpoint. I mean it from your living, your art and your creative life. And it's very apparent well before I spoke to you just seeing it, you know, like I have this famous thing that I famous. This thing I talk about where if someone created the, if there were two pieces of art and they look exactly the same, but one person created it and they didn't give a shit about it. They just were technically putting it out. And the other person, this was their passion. This was their love. This was the thing they cared about the most. I personally believe that that one will always be more appealing to the people who are really looking for like art.

In the same way when I look at what you're doing and how you're creating and even just from like the music suggestions you get to me, like I can tell when people are on the right track and they're doing the things and they're living from that space in their heart and their mind. And it's awesome to see. So I just wanted to say thank you first and foremost for just doing that and being that kind of light in this world. But also, I think it would be super helpful. Like what practical tips do you have for aspiring artists, current artists, creatives in whatever discipline they're doing? I'm sure you've touched on some of them, but I would love to hear just from your standpoint as someone who's doing it, what you've been up to.

Absolutely. Thank you so much. You've warmed my heart so much and I know you know a lot of people and you talk to a lot of people and I totally trust your opinion and that really makes my day. Yeah, definitely. I think that gone are the days when we need to put on our high heels and our short skirts and head to the galleries and shoes and do things we shouldn't be doing to get into galleries and so forth. You know, because of the internet, the unconscious made manifest, you know, we are connecting, we're finding the others and people who appreciate art are finding the artists, you know, and so, and we have these platforms where, you know, if you just do your thing and you're authentic about it, you can communicate with everyone else.

So, yeah, I would say practically speaking, the first step for a creative is to decide on which creative outlet they want to focus on, one, two, maybe three max, hone your skills, get that mileage on that paintbrush, and then, you know, develop a system of self-discipline where you say, okay, this is a JOB. I mean, my ART is a JOB, okay, and I'm going to do it three hours a day or I'm going to do, you know, I'm going to carve out a space in my home and do it for a given amount of time, you know, every day or every week. And, yeah, and then, you know, so the authenticity, the self-discipline and networking.

So, you can take any one of these social media platforms and put your things on there, you know, not pictures of you having ice cream, but your art, you know, your art, things that inspire your art and your art, you know, happening in profit. And then, connect with others, like-minded people and people who might appreciate it. And, yeah, and then collaborate with other artists. And I'm finding more and more that I would rather not outsource the production of my work, but just do it, you know, one to one. There's so many opportunities out there for creatives, absolutely. Yeah, and I love that you touched on that kind of that self-discipline and the consistency of doing it.

That is, that's a pre-rec, that there's no one out there that you've ever seen create anything that didn't make the decision to do that on a regular basis. But that does, as talented as you think anyone may be, I've seen so many talented people in my life, so many talented people who are now working regular jobs or doing something that is not related to their art because they didn't make that commitment. That's it. And that's really- Wow. It's crazy to see. I mean, it's so true. I mean, everything you said there from connecting with your community to establishing it from just making those decisions, sitting down and saying, "This is what I'm going to do." That's amazing to hear it.

So, with that, a beautiful message that you just sent out to creatives there, let's get to these questions. What's your favorite color? Turquoise has been my favorite color for the longest time, that Miami-Blue water. Hey, you can't, yeah, I'm no arguing with me on that one. Your favorite color. What's your favorite number? Eight. You know, if you turn it on its side, it's like the infinity. I very much am aware of that. That's awesome. And what's your favorite animal? I think right now I'm into armadillos. Cool. But, you know, yeah, because, yeah, they're really otherworldly. Also, bioluminescent squid.

Oh, man, those are amazing. God, they're so cool. Anything bioluminescent underwater is like- Uh-huh. That's- There's so many metaphors and symbols there. I'm totally with it. So, you gave a practical tip for creatives, but what's a practical tip in any direction, any area of life that's helped you that you could share with listeners? Um, yeah, I would say ask and you will receive. So, there really is a stream of wisdom trying to whisper to each and every one of us all the time. And if we just ask a question, you know, and then be aware and look around for the answer, that can start you off on a really beautiful magical journey.

I love that. And asking a question implies a certain level of not knowing, which is for someone like me who loves to know things can be very difficult, but really when you can kind of surrender to not knowing and asking whether it's prayer or just a question. That's beautiful. That really is such a key ingredient. Jim, this has been amazing. Absolutely amazing. We'll have to do it again. We'll have to get together in person sometime. I know last time I was in the city, you were there like that day and I was leaving and you're like, "What I was doing?" And I was like, "Ah!" But we'll have to get together soon. We have some cool things coming up around my iPod network in the coming months and I definitely want to fold you into that, but thank you so much for coming on and having this conversation.

Thank you. Totally made my day. Awesome. We'll talk soon. Okay. All right. Bye-bye. ♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ What a lovely person, Jamie, is just a nice warm bath of loveliness, that episode. She sends me music on Instagram. She tips me off to it's so many cool things. I'm a fan of the show and a fan of a lot of the other podcasts on my iPod network, but more importantly, just a wonderful person. I really encourage you to go check out her art. Jamie Gaviola, you will have their links to every single thing that I've mentioned on this episode at syncpodcast.com/jamae. You will also find it at minepodnetwork.com/jamae. So if you want to connect, get some of her art, look at her art, see what she's about. I highly recommend you do that.

Again, thank you to everyone who has contributed to this podcast in one way or the other, whether it's by telling a friend, whether it's by contributing money, whether it's becoming a patron, what's up, Patrick? You are the coolest. There's so many ways to do it. We're going to be kicking this whole podcasting thing into high gear over the next six months. We got a lot of really exciting things going on. We're trying to make this a community as much as possible. I know as you're listening, you know, you're enjoying the podcast or enjoy a lot of the other podcasts on my iPod network. We really want to make this a community, a song, something that is transcends just you listening to this in your headphones or on your phone.

We're making some serious inroads on that, and I think you're going to be excited about what's coming up. That's it. I'm not going to ramble anymore. I've kept you so long. I will see you next week. I know I also teased a bonus episode. There will be a bonus episode soon. I just got to make sure I can get it out for you guys, and that's good. So that's it. I will see you next week. You mean soccer? Right, soccer. Polymarket is proud to be the world's top choice to trade soccer. Know the game better than the market? You can earn cash trading on tournament and game outcomes, golds, assists, saves, corners, and much, much more.

Cool! Download the Polymarket app and use code "Free50" to unlock $50 free for your first trade. Trading not available in all jurisdictions. Check local regulations before trading. Restrictions and eligibility apply.