Apr 19, 2017 · 01:28:23

Ep. 79 - Art, Magic and Kindness with Sarah Potter

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Oh hello,

This week on Synchronicity I'm joined by art curator and advisor, Sarah Potter.

I was introduced to Sarah by our mutual friend, Jennifer Sodini (who is awesome and is coming on the show soon!) and boy oh boy am I glad she tuned us in to each other.

In addition to being a wonderful human being, Sarah also resides in he Hudson Valley so we got to do this episode in person.

I've spoken about it before, but the in person episodes aways carry a little bit of extra energy and this one is no different.

Sarah and I discuss pushing through fear to get to the other side, the power of community and the necessity of kindness in everything we do.

I think, nay, I know, you're gonna enjoy this one.

Be sure to check out Sarah's upcoming projects over at her website: http://www.sarahpotterprojects.com/

Read the transcript auto-generated · 15.9k words

[Music] I believe that you have to help those who need help, be appreciative of what you have, and help those who have less than you. This is synchronicity. [Music] Welcome to episode 79 of Synchronicity. My guest this week is Sarah Potter, and Sarah is fucking awesome. We'll get to Sarah in just a second. I want to talk about something I hear, here's all I got to say. Made some tweets, liked the tweets, did the tweets. Clean the bong in your heart, right? That's my advice to you. Much like a bong that gets gunky and gross with resin, and it's all yucky, and you got to clean it out to make it sparkling clear.

That's what our heart is too, and if you let it get all yucky from bad relationships or anger issues or complexes or any of this weird shit that can happen in a life that makes us kind of jaded and cranky and not cool, you got to clean it out. So, find something you can do, could be meditating, could be microdosing, could be listening to music, could be a creative practice, could be anything, could be hanging out with friends, could be smoking weed. Who knows what it is, sticking with the bong analogy there. Just make sure you clean the bong in your heart, okay? Do that. Now, let's get to Sarah, because Sarah is fucking cool, as I mentioned. So, I met Sarah this past week on Friday night.

I got tuned into her by Jen Soudini. Jen runs EvolveInAsend.com, also on Facebook. Check Jen out. She's coming on the podcast soon, it's going to be a really fun time. So, I met up with her and Sarah, and Sarah and I had had a podcast planned before we met, but then there was this Alex Gray and Dr. Raymond Moody, discussing life after death event, and so we're going to go to that. And I don't want to forget Abby. Abby was also there too. Abby, very awesome too. Didn't speak to Abby on a podcast, but she's super cool. So, we went to this event. It was really cool. It was Alex Gray, Dr. Raymond Moody, who wrote a book called Life After Life, which I actually had a book on tape.

It certainly wasn't a book on tape. It was an audiobook that I listened through my modern device, not on a tape player. And it was a really cool talk. So many interesting concepts were discussed. I love Dr. Raymond Moody had this idea that physical reality is really just kind of like a canvas or a backdrop for us to kind of really engage with what he thinks the world really is shaped by spirit, but it's stories, the world of stories. And so, this physical reality, it gives us this backdrop that we can merge our stories and agree on different ideas of stories, which I thought was fucking awesome.

So, I met Sarah. We hung out that night. It was a really fun time. We were talking about stuff. You know, and then the next day on Friday, Sarah came over. We both came back to the Hudson Valley, and she came over, met Eli, met Alexis, and had a wonderful chat. So, let me tell you about Sarah. Okay, besides being fucking cool. Sarah is an art advisory and curation business. Well, that's her business. She has a business. Let me tell you what it is. You can tell I literally just read from what was on my screen. She has a business, right? Okay. So, her business is an art advisory and curation business, specializing in exhibitions, exploring modern day mysticism. Easy for me to say, not.

What she is, though, is an art curator and an art consultant. And you'll hear in this episode how one becomes that. I was joking that we probably don't grow up as a little kid, thinking that that's what you want to be. But she talks about how she came to be that and how it's just like one of the most fulfilling things like one person can do. She has totally merged so many different aspects of her being, which include being a business person. You know, someone who enjoys and appreciates and knows what good art is. And then also merging that with modern day mysticism, right? That's fucking cool. And not being pretentious or weird about it, right? Because we've talked about that before.

Or I've spoken about that before, which is, you know, when people start talking about spiritual stuff, occult stuff, magic, you know, cities, which are supernatural powers. She can get weird really fast and not weird in like, oh, cool way. And weird like, oh, man, not like that. So she's not like that. Sarah is super cool. She talks about being a witch, being into getting into witch stuff when she was a kid, not being a witch, but getting into witchy stuff. Interestingly enough, we both attended Northeastern for a year. She came a year after me and we both left after year being like, nah, not for me.

So yeah, this conversation, we touch on so much awesome stuff. We talk about, talk about, nope, we talk about community, how art is something that gets to the root of what reality is. We talk about being into weird woo stuff and how if you can keep a somewhat grounded perspective about that, it actually is a wonderfully awesome thing. And you can find some really cool people through it. And we talk about really like, what, what can you do to find not your calling, not to be too saccharine or sappy about it, but how do you tune into what you really want to be doing in life? Not that you need to have that totally figured out, but how do you make that leap? How do you make that decision that this is really who I want to be? This is what I want to be working on.

These are the types of people I want to be surrounding myself and going on that journey journey and trying to understand how, like, what is that? How do we do that? And, of course, that it's fraught with fear and you're going to be terrified of various things, but really taking that leap, right? Let's talk about that. Let's be explicit about this. The emerging theme, at least for me in the past six months, especially on this podcast is taking that leap or dealing with the situation of following what's really inside of you. And that's a tough thing to do. And it's scary. And it's never easy. And anyone who thinks it's easy hasn't done it, right?

But how do you do that with the internal confidence and fortitude to continue to pursue that, even in the face of adversity? And what I love talking to people like Sarah is this is someone who has done this, has unflalingly and unflinchingly made the decision to pursue what's important to her. And through that, and by that, she has helped support her friends. She has helped support artists. She's helping people who don't know anything about buying art or getting art. She's giving them a gateway into getting stuff that resonates with them and means something to them, which I think is incredibly important.

We think of buying art or curating art or going to an exhibition and getting something. A lot of people don't think that's something that they're going to do. But if you can find something that really just means a lot to you and you can hang it up in your house and look at it and it makes you feel a certain way, that's fucking awesome. So anyway, long intro, sorry. That's it. That's it. Thank you to everyone who has rated, reviewed, subscribed to Synchronicity, telling your friends about it. That's super fucking cool too. Don't forget, you can join the Synchronicity community on Facebook. You can do that by going to the website, syncpodcast.com. While you're there, you can sign up for the email list too. Send some shit out on there every once in a while and people seem to like it.

So, that's it. Now we're done. And without further ado, here is Sarah Potter. All right, we're going to go. That's it. So easy. So easy. And nothing has changed. Except I'm going to turn my level on. I'm not an official. I'm glad we went with that. I, you know, in the future. So most of the episodes of my podcast have been done remotely, especially since like the bulk of them, not all of them were done when I was in Maryland, which isn't as remote as it sounds to some people. We were like 15 minutes from DC, but not a tremendous amount of people live in that area. So I was like, fuck it. And like I have a friend, Michael Donovan, who gives, you know, only do them in person.

It's the only way. And I'm like, I get that. They're so much better. They're way more engaging. There's like a dynamic of being in person with someone. But I was like, listen, there's some really fucking cool people who I want to talk to who like there's no way we're getting together in physical space anytime soon. And, you know, if you're relatively personable and could communicate over digital media, it's not totally different. It's not like some weird awkward exchange. Like if someone on the phone can not, you know, you can have a good conversation. But I'm really happy that you're here. Thank you for coming on.

Thank you for having me. So, and I'm not going to do a whole intro. Like some people were like, I'm here with Sarah Potter. I do that in the beginning because this is a conversation between us. We can do all the pre and post stuff later. So we were just talking about a ton of stuff. And we met in person last night for the first time at this Alex Gray and Dr. Raymond Moody, life after consciousness. Let's start there. What did you think of that? What an event. Wow. That was great. That was pretty awesome. I mean, I can listen to Alex Gross talk about anything. I mean, honestly, he's really, really fucking funny too. That's the other thing that I like about him because he just, he doesn't, he obviously doesn't take things as seriously in regular reality as, you know, we can get into that whole thing.

But as someone, as some people who is talking about some of the things that he talks about and paint some of the things he talks about or paints about, which I think is good and always, always good. So, let's, let's, we can go back to the event last night because we talked about a little bit last night too. What about, what are you doing now? You're an art curator? I'm a curator and an art advisor. Okay. Explain. Okay. I didn't ask love. You realize I like so normally, I would have asked last night when we're conversing, having conversation, but I knew we were going to do this. So I'm like, I got to hold back some questions. Honestly, I felt that. I was like, we're going to get into this tomorrow. Save it for the podcast.

Exactly. Exactly. So art curator and art advisor. What is that? Yes. So, I've been working in the art world and the music industry for a little over 10 years now. And the art world has changed a lot. I mean, social media is changing everything right now. And I think that I was in the traditional gallery world working in galleries and doing art fairs through that and working with clients, working with artists. And honestly, I wanted to be mobile. I wanted to be able to work with people more online to pop up exhibitions. And I think that's the modern way of the art world. So I left the galleries and started my own art advisory business, SP projects, meant to help artists, manage artists, set up exhibitions for them, help them connect to clients.

And I also work with my own clients, helping them buy artwork and showing people that anyone can buy art. You don't need an extreme amount of money. You can buy art at any economic level. And stuff that you like and resonates with you. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Is there a style of art that you gravitate towards? I mean, I've seen you're curated from your Instagram and some of the galleries that I've seen posted. What is the kind of the qualifier for you getting involved with an artist's art or even looking on behalf of someone who's looking for art? Like, how do you navigate both of those? So I really enjoy the use of spirituality and artwork. The way that art is its own religion. I believe that art can heal people. It can artists have to create work.

I always work with artists that it has to come out of them and if it doesn't, it's a little scary. I like very visionary work. I like to create experiences with my exhibitions. I love performance art. I love installation art where someone comes in and really takes over a space. And being mobile and not being tied to a gallery allows me to put all of my funding into really what I think are radical exhibitions. I can experience. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. The experiential part of it, I think, is a big thing now. So not to get too off on a tangent or another thing, but so we did this event in LA for the podcast network, but it was also an artist collective.

We were working out there called No Wave and they had this huge space and all these beautiful paintings and photographs and it was like really, really excellent stuff. But what was particularly cool at the end of the night, and this was like an all day thing, but around like 11 p.m. they had a string quartet come in and they started playing and they were amazing. And they were playing like Venus and FERS and some original comp and incredibly talented musicians like objectively like amazing. Like I think they were working with like, you know, famous composers and stuff. They were amazing. But at one point they did this improvisational thing where they started going up to different art pieces individually and like playing something different while looking at the pieces and then they started moving around everyone in the gallery.

So they used the space and it really, it felt like everything was the art there, right, and the whole experience was a thing. And I found that to be like, incredibly organic, but also incredibly like profound. I was like, this is awesome. Like this is an amazing thing that I don't know that like most people are, you know, most people when you think of a gallery exposition, you go in, you look at stuff, you go through it kind of sequentially, you examine what you like, but if you're creating a kind of another layer to it, that's where I think it gets really interesting. Well, I wanted to be a memorable experience and I love really psychedelic artwork, really visionary.

I love artists who are creating a way where art is their meditation, art is their religion, the process of creating the work is just as much part of the product. So this is, I don't know if you know this, but I just released a beta version of a course I've been working on for four months, which is called creative evolution. And the idea of the course is to get anyone who's interested in any creative urge or impulse to start and maintain a creative practice. Much in the same way that someone would have like a meditation practice, you know, you have a daily or regular thing that kind of gives you some guideposts that all the things that come up in a meditation practice may come up.

It's the same thing applies to creative practice. And one of the things you're talking about there is exactly what's in the course, which is this idea that we have to, what were you just saying because I forgot it as I was saying it? What were you just saying? Oh, that creating work is a meditation. No, no, you're talking about the whole process. Oh, yes. So I have a chapter in there that basically talks about that specific principle, which is it's weaved into non-judgmental awareness because we like to think that the finished piece. Is that's it? Like as a consumer, sometimes we'll be like, oh, that's it.

That's it. That's what's created. That's the song. That's the art. That's the composition. That's the writing. But really what's being communicated in it is the entire process. Like that is what goes in. It's imbued with that. And that's actually what's creating the resonance with the people. So that's, I mentioned that because that's like, I think it's a very important thing, not only for people who are viewing or listening or consuming stuff, but also people who are starting to create. Because you can get caught up in that idea of, you know, this needs to be a finished product, this whole thing, and you don't recognize that some of your favorite shit has been like a torturous experience in some ways for people to get that out.

So that's why I bring that up. Yeah. Yeah, that's fucking cool. Yeah. That's really cool. So how did you, let's do some biographical stuff too. Sure. How I found out last night that you spent some time in Boston, spent some time in Philadelphia. Now you're living not far from me in the Hudson Valley, which we're ecstatic about because we're meeting people here and it's awesome. Yes. Where did you grow up and how did you kind of make your way through the music scene and into the art world? So I grew up on the Jersey Shore. That's awesome. I fucking love New Jersey. That's awesome. Yeah, so there's a little bit of my heart there.

And actually growing up in New Jersey in the '90s and the early 2000s, there was such a killer music scene. It's really. Yeah. Totally. I had no idea. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I had no idea. There was this little club called Birch Hill and like all of those like emo bands, punk bands. A lot of my friends had bands. There were a lot of VFWs and little clubs. I mean my friends had record labels. They're 14 and had record labels, booking shows. That's super cool. And there was such an incredible DIY scene. And my parents were artists and super into encouraging me to express myself with art. And I mean being a teenager is hard for everyone.

Yeah. And I can't imagine not having art and music as a teenager. Yeah. I do wonder really at any age if you don't have those things, but especially as you're going through this transitional periods. Yeah, I totally agree. I feel like art and music for me were languages that the creators were speaking to me in a way that a verbal language can't. This is the third time in three days that I've heard that exact thing communicated, which is something that I've spoken about with many people because I have had psychedelic experiences where I come back and I'm like oh fucking words. Why do we? This is the worst.

Yeah. The fact that we use these things is, and you know, I also appreciate poetry. I appreciate great writing. I appreciate being able to communicate with people via language. But like the sentiment still is like the ineffable, the Williams James quote, you know, the variety of religious experiencing that got mentioned last night. It's this idea of the transcendent or mystical experience. One of the qualities, almost the paramount one, is it's an ineffable experience. You can't really describe it with language that we have. So yeah, I totally know what you're saying. And so I, but I always felt that art and music were so sacred to me that it would never be how I made my money.

Yeah. So it was like, I was like, it's going to ruin it for me. So I went to business school. That's awesome. And I quickly found out that business school was not for me. Really? Yeah, surprisingly, it did not work out. It went to Northeastern. And people are always like, oh, are you in the art program, but you like to take business classes for fun or something? What year was your first year at Northeastern? I started there in the fall of 2002. I started there in the fall of 2001, September of 2001. Look at that. You were there for all the big events, the red socks. Oh, yeah. I was there at the Patriots, the first year, the one in the Super Bowl, and I was very upset.

Oh my gosh. We were turning over cars at Northeastern. They took away ludicrous from our spring fling because our behavior was so bad. I'm still mad about that. They closed the Marino Center. You know that? No. I'm pretty sure they closed it. Oh, wow. I'm pretty sure they took away the football team from Northeastern, apparently. I mean, I was never into that stuff there. I didn't even know there was a football team. I went there for a year. Yeah, there was. Wow. Yeah. Okay, sorry. Is that synchronicity? Yeah. So I actually, I honestly didn't even know about art school. Really? I went to art class.

Sorry. I went to art class in high school just to back up outside of school. I was in a liberal arts magnet program in my high school. And with a liberal arts magnet program, I still only had half a year of art class in school. Yeah. That sounds about right, unfortunately. Yeah, I think I had more art classes than most students. By far. I don't think I had, I think I had one art class my entire high school. I don't think I'm joking about that because I would remember. I took a lot of music classes which filled all of the arts, right? Yeah. So I didn't have it. I had one class where I think we visually or like made things or like weren't drawing or something.

That's nuts. Yeah. I never thought about that. It is. And I think everyone needs art and music. Totally. And our education system has to change. Totally. I can really go off on it. Oh, trust me. We can. We can too. I mean, I love to go off on that stuff too. And I also try to figure out like what do we do about it. Obviously, like I have friends who have children who are older than mine who's, you know, you always 11 months right now and, you know, these five, seven, nine, 10, 13. And I see what some of them are doing and it's really fucking smart. Yeah. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing.

And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing. And I see how they're doing.

It hasn't been beaten out of me yet. That's what I'm saying. But I do think that people get older. They're thinking about looking forward, maybe starting a family. How am I going to take care of myself and my family? How am I going to take care of this massive debt for my education? And I was just like, "Oh, well, I'm done with school. I'll go. I'm going to open a gallery." Yeah. Do you have the freedom to be able to do that? Why not? Yeah. So I wanted to move to Philadelphia. Why Philadelphia? I just wanted to move there. It's just-- Yeah, I just liked it. Yeah, friends who were living there. It was really affordable.

You could get space. That was affordable. There was an art scene. Space 1026 is an art collective. And one of my most favorite galleries there, just putting on incredible shows. It just felt like a good place to start out my adult life. Yeah. Cool. So I kind of was starting to look at apartments and spaces. And I was like, "Oh, I can just live in the back room secretly." And whatever. And at the same time, I was visiting my mom on the Jersey Shore. And I hadn't really gotten to see her much while I was in college. I was so intense at school. And my mom had read about a gallery that was owned by two women.

And she was like, "Why don't we go check this out?" It's in Asbury Park, New Jersey. And the first exhibition that was there featured three local artists. One is Robert Ryan, who is a tattoo artist, he owns electric tattoo. And his work was unlike anything I'd ever seen before. What was it like? It was anthropomorphic, a lot of sacred animals, sacred geometry. Very cool. I felt like I was looking at work that was from not a specific time or place. Like a turn all time. Yes, exactly. So I love that. It was so good. It was surreal. It had occult symbolism, ancient Egypt. I love it. Just everything.

It's like the shit you look on the alchemical stuff and these old things that's still like. I'm like, "This is still fucking amazing." And this is from like 1500, 1700, 700 BC. I was like, "This is amazing." I know exactly where we're talking. That's awesome. Yeah. It just hit me in a way that I didn't know a gallery could show work like this. Like perfectly deeply profound. Yes. It was like I fell in love. Awesome. That's exactly what happened though. Yeah. And I was like, "This is cool. This is something really exciting is happening here." And there was also Meghan McKelvey's artwork who is an incredible artist.

She created all of these pieces. It was religious symbolism. I've always loved Virgin Mary iconography. And she stitched Virgin Mary and just different symbols. And it was just really speaking to me. And I was like, "Oh, this is exactly the type of art I want to show in my gallery." And it just felt like I wanted to be a part of this. And Asbury Park is such a special town. Ocean Grove is right there. Ocean Grove is next door. And it's a religious community. And they would lock the gates at night. Oh, really? To keep the sin of Asbury Park out. That's a good selling point for Asbury Park. Yes. So good.

Asbury was fun. Yeah. And I was like, "This is where I want to be." So I asked the owner if she needed any help. And I said that I was not going to be around for long. The most I could really commit to was six weeks. But because I was moving Philadelphia and I was opening my own gallery. But if anything I could do to help and be a part of this and further what they were doing, I wanted to do. Which I hold the thought just to say this, that is something that I think gets often overlooked in terms of... Because listen, especially with a lot of the older generation of people who grew up in a business world.

The thought of giving away or offering support or help unequivocally with no gain, financial, whatever it is. It's something that is not typically advised that one do. In my life, every single time I've done that, amazing things have come from it. Regardless of whether it's financial, personal, relationships, spiritual, I really recommend people do that in a mindful way. And what I would say here is the connection is you said you were falling in love with this stuff. This was speaking to you on many different levels. So you just felt compelled to selflessly be like, "What can I do?" Totally. I get it.

I'm with it. And I absolutely believe in community. The art world is cutthroat. And I understand that. In music too, right? Yes. Of course. But I believe in helping each other out, I always try to help people who are younger than me. I always offer advice or my opinion. I like to hire women to work with me. I was going to touch on the women thing too because we'll get to that. So through a series of happenstance events, I wound up staying at that gallery for eight years. Yeah, I was going to say. So how did that come about though? Like really what was the catalyst that really kept you there? The woman I spoke to, her partner in that gallery, really just as I got there, she checked out.

And she was left with a gallery to run by herself. And it just all the signs pointed to being there and a lot of signs pointed me away from Philadelphia. And that gallery eventually evolved into another gallery. And I just made my way up the ranks. And I learned a lot. I learned as much of what to do as what I should not do. Great, I was going to say. But I also knew that I eventually, I couldn't stay there forever. And there really is something to that Saturn return. I was 29. Let me preface this too. I don't know a tremendous amount about astrology. I've had a Vedic reading done once, which I found to be very cool and accurate in a lot of ways.

My dad is very much into astrology. He will do like natal charts. My son is born. He'll send me my mind. I don't really understand what any of it means. I am in no way close minded. I believe that all of this shit is interconnected. Why would I ever exclude astrological or the movement of celestial bodies? I'm with it. I have found, especially the moon in particular, my meantime, there is a cancer. The moon fucks me up as much as anything else. This last one on the 11th. Holy shit. That was fucking insane. That was like one of the most insane, they ended up microdosing the next day or that day.

For the first time. So there was that. But yeah, I'm totally with it. Continue. Well, so I mean, even if you don't believe in astrology, I think that when you are 29, looking at 30, you should be thinking about a lot of things. And where you've been in the past 10 years and what you'd like the next 10 to look at, it's a natural time to really evaluate your life. And I just, you know when it's time and you know when it's time to leave the nest and fly. And I knew that I was ready to start my own business. So I did move to Philadelphia and started my own art advisory business. And I just really at that point, I just wanted to continue working with my clients, helping people by art.

Whether it was for their homes or their offices, work that has meaning, work that brings meaning to their lives, work you want to wake up to and see every day, work that's going to hold its value. So you, if not steadily increase in value, art is a great place to invest your money into. Yeah, especially if it means something to you and even money, if it rises in value, it fulfills something in you. That's also a very satisfying feeling in life. I mean, that's one of my favorite things about art. And music and all of those things is that the value it gives you is not intrinsically tied necessarily to anything else.

And that to me is an amazingly profound concept because, you know, we live in a society. I definitely want to touch on this too because this is, I think something a lot of people struggle with. And I've had an interesting relationship with money for various aspects of my life. You know, I've had at times, especially in my younger years, teenage and early twenties. I thought money was the root of all evil. It's the worst thing ever. It makes people do stupid things. And I've come to learn that it's a kind of a neutral energy that can be used like any other thing. And it's the intent that you ascribe to it.

It's the way that you make it. It's how you use it because you can have a shitload of money and keep it all for yourself and buy expensive porches and not give a fuck about anyone being mean to people. Or we can make a shitload of money and give to charitable causes, create institutions, help your friends, help your family. So the money isn't the thing that's bad, but kind of going into this idea of authentically creating a system that allows you to work within the confines of our society and culture, right? Knowingly that we need to make money. I own a house now. So like, I have a mortgage to pay.

I'm not going to pretend that like as woo-woo as I can get. That's a responsibility that I owe to a bank. I co-own a house with a bank. So how was it for you kind of navigating the process of creating a business based around kind of these eternal timeless principles, but also having something that fulfills the financial obligations not only for yourself, but for your friends who are artists and the people who are also looking for something and have the money to spend on this too. So how did you kind of navigate that road or roads? Did you know there's a Facebook group for synchronicity? I mentioned it at the beginning of this episode, but it's a cool place where you can talk to cool people about cool things.

We just crossed a thousand members of this group. We talk about all sorts of stuff. We share funny things. We have good times. We share music. If you want to join syncpodcast.com, you'll see the menu item, Facebook group. You have to request approval. I'm not just letting anybody in. Request approval. I'll take a look at you all so you make the cut. You get in. How about that? That's it. Back to the episode. I also had a weird relationship with money, and I thought that you had to give everything away, give yourself away, and especially in the art world, I feel that everyone's expected to work for free, and that is not okay.

Tell me about it. Money is wonderful. Tell me about it. You know what? And I am pretty woo woo. And I will tell you that money is great. It's what you do with it. And what I told myself was, this is a business. It's not a hobby. It's fun. It's fulfilling. It's hard. And if I don't make money for myself and the artists I work with, this ends. And it can't go on anymore. If I don't make money for my artists, how are they going to buy supplies? How are they going to pay for their studio spaces? How are they going to support themselves? And I just think you don't let money change you. You always follow your intuition.

You surround yourself with good people who are working in a very true and honest way. But you have to accept money. You have to accept your value. You don't have to work for free. There are times when you do. And you pick and choose those opportunities. But we all have to make money. And I have to sell work. It's great to have a good eye. Like I was saying, I trust my instinct and my intuition. But I have to move work. And I want to be able to support my artists and support myself. And we're doing that together. This is the idea that I think is kind of the seed for how we create... I don't know how to get too fucking idealistic here.

Like a new form of culture or tribes or families or whatever it is because we can't just get rid of money. The exchange of resources hinges upon this concept. And it will for most likely my son's entire life too. It's not going to be overturned. And I have cryptocurrency and I believe it's possible the global economy could make a lot of these things meaningless. But I don't really think that's going to happen. I think this is a system that has worked through a lot of different things. And we'll probably continue for a little bit. So working within... Here's the allegory I'll give. Knowing that the world is shaped by spirit.

Or saying that as a concept. This is what they were talking about last night too. That it's really spirit is what's shaping the world. And I loved what Dr. Raymond Moody was talking about. Which was physical reality is the backdrop. It's the back story for the actual stories that we need this kind of consensus reality to help shape and guide our world. So knowing that we work within this world to do matters of the spirit and to get to the truth of that. Much in the same way that's how we use money in a capitalist society. We're working within the confines of the system that we know is somewhat limited.

In some ways not perfect and not good in a lot of ways. But we can use it for good. Which is exactly what you're saying. I mean, money is a motherfucker for me. Because there have been times where I've had almost no money and been miserable. Which has been in the past. There have been times when I've been making a good amount of money. Six figures and have been miserable. And have been happy. However, now which is easily the roughest financial transitional period of my life by far. Which I always imagined would be the scariest and most horrible. Just earth shattering like panic-stricken mindset.

And there are days where you're like, "Holy shit, what the fuck?" I'm super happy though. And it's not because I'm insane. It's because I'm planting, I'm not sitting on my ass being like, "Oh, I'm planning seeds for things that are going to happen in the future." I'm doing what I really want to be doing. And I'm treating it like a business. It's not like a hobby. And I made that shift. And I say this not only to relay my personal story. But I know a lot of people who are right on the cusp of maybe taking a leap career-wise. Or trying to pursue something they really feel that they need to do. And some people are looking for the kind of security to make that leap.

And it's not usually there. Nothing is secure. It was like when I was in art school, I broke my heart hearing friends who would say, "Well, my parents want me to study graphic design because that's secure." And I was like, "Nothing's secure." Nothing in life. We're not getting out of this alive. And money makes things easier, but it doesn't make us happy all the time. And I feel like I want to enjoy life and I want to enjoy what I'm doing and there's ways to have both. There really is. And I think that this is important. I think a lot of hippies in the '60s dealt with a not dissimilar thing as they moved into the mid-70s and the '80s.

And there had to be this idea of what are we going to do. And that, I think, took too much of a swingback on the pendulum because the '80s and the '90s were... I mean, that was just like a... And I love a lot of the art and music that came out of them so culturally awesome with a lot of that stuff. But yuppy movement and Reaganomics and all of these things, they were obviously destructive on a lot of levels. Now I'm hoping with the confluence of technology, media, access to this stuff, and then it's also kind of like a semi-knowledge of what has happened in the past 30, 40 years, I'm hoping we can integrate this in a very substantial way, which is why I love hearing stories like yours, where it's like you found something that you loved.

You never really thought this is what you were going to do. And I would find it surprising if you did. If I have a passion for being an art advisor, an art curator, that would be like, "How did you do it?" It's like, "How did you do it?" It's like playing Barbies with like, "I'm an art curator, haven't I?" You should find this painting, Ken. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, that would be weird today. But you found this thing that you recognize your passion with, and you also recognize you had a skill for too, which I think is important. I mean, not to shoot at anyone who has a passion, hone your craft, hone your skill, but if you notice you have both, that's a good Venn diagram to actually pursue and create something about.

And I also like that you really do take it seriously. It was a business to you. Oh, yeah. And that's an important thing to relay, because when we're talking about creative stuff, especially artists themselves, I consider my one because they make music. But yeah, a lot of times you don't want to think about the business aspects, and I fundamentally believe at this stage, it's not the most sexy thing for me to look at my web analytics. It's not the most sexy thing for me to have to write checks and, you know, have a loan and all do all these things. But because I know this shit, if I have an idea and I want to execute it, I have something that just, at least I know isn't going to be totally like me just fucking throwing things to the wind completely and having no idea what's going on, and I do think that's important.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's nice to put pretty pictures on the wall and invite people to come see it. Yeah. But there's a lot more that goes into it. And I also, I know some people, you know, they curate on the side and they do other jobs to make it work. And I think that's beautiful. But for me, I had to fully commit to this, fully submerge myself. It was terrifying. Right. That's the thing. Right there. If I'm not giving my all, I mean, the artists I work with, they're giving their all. You both have to give 100% in this. And I think that comes through. I think it's just one of those things and it touches upon like pushing through the fear or moving towards it.

And it's, yeah. I think, so I think that fear is such a detriment for everyone. Around this time last year, I had a conversation with an artist about fear. And I believe that he was not pushing through to his full potential as an artist because he was afraid. He had a family to support, a Borgage, all of these very real issues that face all of us. And I understand that fear. Who hasn't acted out of fear? I have. I mean, and at the same time, I connected with this artist, Lucian Shapiro, who he is incredible, a mixed media artist, who started a performance piece. He was traveling the country with it.

And it was about conquering your fears. And he created a whole ritual. And I couldn't believe it. I saw that he was doing this tour while I had this conversation with this other artist. And it was called the fear collecting ritual. And I was like, I have to bring this to Philadelphia. People need this right now. And this is before the election. I mean, it was just so pertinent that he was doing this. And a few of my friends who are artists live in an old convent. And the gallery space is in the former chapel. And so I did a solo show there with this artist, Heather Gable, that I love. And it was excellent.

And so I talked to them about bringing Lucian in. And he creates masks that transcend time or place. They resonate with so many people. And they just, they feel powerful. And I mean, what a beautiful thing. He traveled the country collecting everyone's fears. And it just so happened that he did another ritual and got rid of them the day after the election. Not planned. No, I mean, I know how those things happen, trust me. I know that when those things actually happen, they're not like it's a planned stage thing. It's just, yeah. Listen, most people thought Hillary was going to win. So yeah, I mean, no, it's planning that.

Yeah. That's, yeah, fear is some other fucker. I mean, it's also a beacon. It's also something that can wake us up that something is happening and we can make. That's true. Have a choice in how to respond to it, which is not, you know, typically a reaction is not to move towards it. But yeah, this leap, what you described as it is terrifying. I think it has to be done. And when you look at your favorite artists, whatever field it is, whatever you love, whatever your passion is, those people had to make that jump. They had to. Yeah. They're real, really doing soul stuff. If they're really getting the thing out of them.

And I was, I forget who I was talking about. I know it was Alexis. You know, I was talking about how Justin Bieber, as much as people don't like to admit it, is like, he's a real artist. Oh, yeah. And it's like, you know, people, you know, there are people of all different opinions about people, but this dude is bearing his soul. I knew you can hear it in his voice. You can hear it in his talent and his skill, but like he may be kind of a douchebag, but he is being a douchebag to his soul's maximum potential. Exactly. That's coming out in the music and like may not be your favorite thing musically, but, you know, for people who like can recognize the truth in it, even if it's not maybe their particular band or two, that's just being an artist.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I just think that's, I love that. Yeah. I just think like it's nice being in your comfort zone, but when you get out of it, great things happen. It's the only way, because you're just, even from like a neuroscientific way, if you're looking at the same neuro pathways, if you're going down the same grooves over, this is why meditation has profound effect on people. Yes. Because you can slowly start to be aware of the grooves and the patterns that you're going through and you can trace it back and be like, "Is this really serving me? Is this serving people around me?" And you have a chance to potentially slowly, but surely do what you really want to do.

Well, let's talk about this idea of creativity too, because I think, I mean, this is something, I told you I have a course about it now, which was semi-planned, I researched it, but I never thought I would be doing anything like that, but I do think it's such an important thing. I think people in touch with their own creativity, and that doesn't just mean like making art or writing a book or making a song, it could be starting a business, it could be anything. I feel like that's like a very, very important thing over the next five, 10, 15, 20 years for people to get in touch with, who maybe wouldn't think that they are.

Totally. Everyone has created potential. That's what I think, right? Yeah. Yeah. It seems apparent to me. But a lot of people don't think that they do. I know. That's why I made a course about it, but I'm needed. Yeah. I mean, I think we just, okay, let's shift gears now. Okay. We're doing a burp. Let's talk about some woo-woo shit though, because you said you have to woo-woo. What's an example of some of your woo-woo stuff? Okay. So, I have always been interested in the occult. Cool. Like what realms, what facets? So I got my first deck of tarot cards when I was 12. Cool. I'm a Rider Waite deck.

A classic. Cool. I just, I love the symbolism. I love the imagery. I like there was this mystique, and you know, in the 90s, it wasn't as easy to get the woo-woo stuff. So my sister had a tarot deck. Hers was fucking, cards would literally jump out of this one before. Yeah. It was insane. And she used to read tarot, which is my exposure to it. I didn't know. I don't know. It wasn't like a big thing that people were wearing off Amazon. No. Yeah. No. Like you had to, like usually some other weirdo showed it to you. And then you're like, "Oh, I need more of this weird stuff." He's like porn, basically.

Exactly. It wasn't as accessible as it is now. You just go on to Google and find whatever weird thing you're into. You have to like, you had to know someone with a playboy or a video and it's like, "Now I know where do I get more of this?" Yeah. Okay. Totally. And you know what? Even before that, I had a Ouija board when I was a kid. There to God. Sir, I was going to say Ouija board right before you said it because that was the other thing that my grandma had a Ouija board in the basement of my grandparents' house. That's funny. You said that. That is good. Well, I was the kid. It was... I brought my Ouija board to all the slumber parties.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah. I totally believed in ghosts. I was just very... I had psychic experiences from a very young age and luckily, I had parents who were really open-minded and were just like, "Explore that." Yeah. And I got my first book on witchcraft around the same time as that tarot deck. Cool. And my parents were very much like, "Well, as long as you're reading, we don't care what you read." So, yeah, you want some of these witchcraft books. I don't know. Remember this one, it was about white witchcraft and it was a blue book with white and orange writing on it. The next time I go to my parents' house, I have to find it.

Yeah. And it was like, totally like I was reading these books like I was a 60-year-old crone or something. Like I was definitely not a young person, I guess, in this body. Right. You're gravitating towards things that people your age, I was... This is so cute, but what do you think now that kids now can just go find whatever it is? Like, do you know what I mean? Yeah. I felt like certain books that would find me as I'd put it back then, but like very special and auspicious. And I know nothing is really diminished by the internet, but it's just such a different experience. And like, you find that, but for me, it was Carl Jung.

It was these philosophical, it was a lot of sci-fi. And it was just like, damn, like, do people know that this is actually like a thing? Like, is this... Yes, anyone else reading this? Exactly. Exactly. Now it's not really like that because there's a message board for anything. Exactly. There's probably a whole community around that specific book you were reading. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, that's... But continue. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I've had this discussion with a lot of people because the occult is having such a moment in mainstream society, which craft is everywhere. Everything. Yeah. Yes.

Totally. Yeah. And, you know, at first I felt like I was a weird kid, like luckily I had social skills, so I had friends and I had other friends who were weird. But like, I was not cool to be a witch. Like the craft came out in the early 90s, like in the mid to late 90s, that was not cool. Now it's like it's fucking hip, like to be a witch. Yeah. It's like a nerd thing. Yeah. Like we were growing up, if you were a nerd, that was a bad thing in school. Yeah. You did not want to be a nerd. No. No. Gates wasn't popular. There was no rich nerds yet. It was just something that you didn't want to be.

Um, yeah. No. I guess I did it. Yeah. But you know what? Like, I love, I love that. I think it's like, I mean, I always think it's cool to be weird. I think weirdos are awesome. And, uh, if you're too normal, I know you're just hiding your weirdness. Right. Cause no one knows. What was the quote from last night? Oh, yeah. Oh, man. That was so good. I hate bringing up quotes when I don't remember them. I know. We'll try to think. Yeah. It was really good. But normal is something that people pretend to be. What the fuck is it? Oh, getting to know, like getting to know someone. We're going to. We're going to.

Yeah. We got to get back. We'll get that back by the time we wrap this up. Yeah. But I, you know what? I know everyone's sick of seeing pentagrams everywhere. Frankly, I am too, but whatever. These are powerful symbols that have been part of our society for centuries as a reason that they exist. And you know what? If a kid sees a pentagram and hot topic, whatever, and it calls to them and they want to learn more about that symbol. Why should we dissuade that? Why not? Right. You know, and like there was part of me that felt like, no, like, like that's my thing. My thing. Yeah. I mean, like I felt, I remember feeling like a lot of people felt ownership of bands and hating when an indie band got signed.

But I love it. Like more people hear that music. I want my friends to make money from their, what they love and their music. And when their art blows up and we can't keep everything a secret, we have to celebrate these things. It's like the hipster. You want to only do the underground stuff and my only issue and I can only put it in the music scene that I really love, electronic music is I have, I love it when people from the underground blow up and get the notoriety. What no one ever wants to see is people who are jumping on the backs of the underground and creating some derivative, which happens everywhere.

I mean, whatever you're thinking, that is an unfortunate thing. But no, I don't think you should ever be upset when someone makes it. I mean, that you should always be, it's moody, it's some sympathetic joy. That's like a very important thing to cultivate because a secret is if you can be happy for other people genuinely when good things happen to them, you're going to be happy a lot of the time. It's so true. That's like a fucking secret that I don't think is a little cheat code there. Just get that one skill down, then surround yourself with successful people who are doing cool shit, you're going to be like super happy and successful yourself.

That's basically how it works. Yeah. I truly believe in that too. So okay. So a cult, which stuff, we can stuff, what else, where, what other woo hoo? Let's see. My purse is full of crystals. Cool. I have all these here. I noticed that. That's a nice one. It's rare that you're seeing my little table here. So this is kind of my like little thing I have, this is not my group, but he is a shirty cybaba. Oh wow. Very cool guy. It's burnt because I forgot it was in a thing and one time it fell into a fireplace we had in New York. I didn't know it, but something like pinged in my head, something was wrong and I ran over there and before it like burned any of the thing I got, I keep that on my, my holy sand table.

So like what do you think? That's your kind of general idea of what earth and humans and like life is. Whoa. That's a real question. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. You know, I, I believe that everything is connected. I believe in the golden rule. Yes. Absolutely. I believe that we need to be kind to each other and warm to each other, support each other. I, you know, I don't believe in organized religion. I believe in being a good person and I think that being good should guide you and being kind to others is what should guide you. I believe that you have to help those who need help be appreciative of what you have and, and help those who who have less than you.

Yes. And I believe in education. I think we should all read as much as possible and be open minded. Yeah. I mean, I don't know about the, the bigger purpose in life, but I know that a lot of the exhibitions I curate are to help me figure out my place in the universe. And I want to create a space where all are welcome, that all feel that they can participate or learn or think about things differently. What I love about the concepts of witchcraft is it's a, the power that comes from within you. You're connecting to the earth, plants, the seasons, I believe that, you know, the election was such a turning point for me.

I think it rocked everyone's world. I mean, I was no big deal. Yeah. I was like, whatever. I think something happened. I know I've never felt so alone ever, I've never felt so unimportant or like that I didn't matter. And I can't stew in a situation like a feeling like that. So I was like, what, what can I do? What can I do? Right. Right. Right. And I started thinking about how this is what mysticism, this is what witchcraft is about. I believe that witchcraft has always appealed to the others of society. Think about how many, especially women, strong women, you plucked it out in my head. This was naturally going to be my segue into talking about the women and feminine energy because a lot of the things you were talking about in terms of what you felt, the purpose was kindness, compassion.

And this is not to gender or sexualize certain qualities to one gender or another, but these are things that are described as the divine feminine, these are the qualities and there's masculine energies and they have functions and they interweave and they're not relegated to one side. So I noticed you were evoking a lot of this and talking about a lot of this quality. So I would think that would be natural for some component. Please talk about that. And I believe like we do need to tap into both sides. Absolutely. You know, I have to pull out like masculine energy and my business. Totally. I can see that when you're saying they're business stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. No, like I have to take charge of this. I have to use logic to figure out this aspect of my business. Yeah. And that is what it is. It's, let's not pretend like it's anything else than that. It is a more masculine quality. And I believe that, you know, when everyone's, I was talking to so many people who felt so alone. Yes. And when everyone is feeling alone, if we can do something to bring us all together, we're not alone anymore and we're a lot stronger together. Yes. Yes. Yes. The sum is greater than the parts. The sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Exactly. The other way around the whole is greater than.

Yes. And so I started, I decided that 2017 was going to be the season of the witch. And I believe that witches stand up for what they believe in, even if they're the only one. Right. You come together and you do what's good, you do what's right. You protect people from harm. You know, that we're seeing this turning back to nature and protecting our planet and just dealing with these concepts that have always been there. I just think they're a lot more important now and we have to stand up for what we believe in. If not now, when? Exactly. Not to use another cliche or platitude, but I mean, it's, it truthfully, I mean, this is my main, whenever I get into any conversations like these, or they're for podcasts or not, whether it's mystical or transcendent things or psychedelic conversations or esoteric or Buddhist or whatever, to me, it always comes back to you.

What's the practical usage in our 3D reality right now? I trust myself to be able to ascend in the other dimensions and navigate those worlds knowing that they exist and not take them lightly. But like we, let's make our reality here also good because that is a reflection of what a review, maybe a greater unified interconnected whole is. And that's why, you know, I don't have the answers for it now. I think what you're doing is an amazing template, which is essentially, I read a really good book. I actually found out about it through Phil Jackson's book, the famous Zen master head coach with Bulls and everything, he wrote a book called 11 rings, and it's surprisingly, you know, it's very biographical and autobiographical about the teams he managed, but it's very spiritual and in not a forced way, like he draws on the Lakota.

He draws on like roomies. It's very well done. And he talks about this book called tribal leadership and these people, I forget their names. I think it's on the reading list for this podcast on the site, but it basically defines qualities. These people went over all these businesses and came up with this stage system one, two, three, four, five. It's a whole thing. I'm not going to get into it. But basically identified qualities of what they deem tribal leaders. And these were people who were constantly trying to build something for a noble cause that was greater than whatever the baseline initiative was.

So if that was to make money or if that was to do thing, it was something bigger than that. And that's actually what got these kind of organizations to work in these selfless ways that actually created amazing things. So some of them were in like the health system where they really focused on patient care and like really made it a much better experience for the quality of care, which drove costs now. It was like, you know, quantum leaps forward with this type of thing. There's hallmarks of tribal leaders. One of them is that they introduced triads quite a bit. So rather than trying to like introduce someone to be the mediator in between, they'll just introduce people.

Oh, I think you'd know you. You'd like this. Not unlike Jen does. Right? Obviously. It's pretty easy to see. But what these actually relates to what we're talking about is you can create these communities that start creating systems that help support the people in the community, but also then develop kind of a template for any area of life. So what we were talking, or I was talking about last night, it's like the sustainability shit. I don't know shit about sustainability. My idea of sustainability is I'm going to grow some vegetables and once in a while I'm going to be able to make it salad. You know what I mean?

But I know there are people who are doing it. I know that they're people who are smart and working on this. And if we continue to work on ourselves internally, figure out our artistic motivations, our personal motivations, our spiritual motivations, we're going to be able to plug in an interface with all these different people in the not too distant future. So that to me is the idea announced for the practical implementation over the next few years. That's what I think is going on. That's what I'm hoping. And I think that nothing, no effort is too small. You know, having that garden and making salads sometimes, that's still impactful.

It's the microcosm. Yeah. What I think could be the macrocosm and the same principle is there, like the same way that, you know, the oak tree is in the seed. Right. It's the same logic that I think that applies to everything. Oh my God, I think we, oh yeah, we're right on schedule. So first of all, we're new friends now. You don't live too far away. We got a, we got a link in any number of ways. This is awesome. I have three questions at the end that I asked every guest and then one other question after that. And then we'll wrap it up. Is there anything that I didn't touch on that you wanted to talk about too?

Because we're not on a strict time frame here. Oh, okay. Um, let's see, I would love to mention an exhibit I have coming up this summer. Yes. Oh, of course, of course, please. Oh, I connected with the estate of Kurt Seligman. Are you familiar with Seligman? No, no. So he was a surrealist painter. He would, I love surrealism. That was like the first big art movement. I connected it. Me too. I love it too. And, um, Kurt was in that circle. He was hanging out with Ernst. He was just a big player in that and he and his wife Arlette came to New York. They were living in Paris. They were able to get out before World War II broke out and helped a lot of other surrealists and artists seek refuge here.

Good. It was wonderful. Yeah. And Kurt was not only an artist, he was also very interested in magic and the occult wrote a lot of incredible books. And he was very much a connector in life. And after his death, he's still connecting us and connecting people and it's really beautiful to see that. Yeah. It's amazing. And I was able to visit his estate last December. I saw Jesse Bransford's exhibit, which was amazing. He's an incredible artist who's dealing with magic and art. So you're going to have to tip me off to all I, oh, I will. Another fortuitous synchronicity, at least in my life, I often know or feel compelled to like find either, whether it's music and you find the right person who's tipping you off or it's art, but especially in the past few years, like I really want to get tuned in to cool visual art and I'm what we're doing a lot of people.

So that's helpful. I'd be happy to. Yes. Awesome. Awesome. And Jesse is in the Catskills as well as New York, so I'm in hand, so he's around. And I just, I went to Kurt's estate. It's in Sugar Loaf. Oh. The catalyst. So I know an artist, John F. Simon Jr., one of my good friends, he's been on the podcast. I think I should introduce you to, he's incredible. He was a big digital pioneer with digital art, but his stuff is, he has a book called Drawing Your Own Path. I'm going to, oh man, I'm going to, I'm going to hook you up. He's fucking amazing. Oh, please do. Awesome. Sugar Loaf is cool. I love Sugar Loaf.

It was one of the first places we went when we moved here, it was like our first trip. We drove to Sugar Loaf. Had lunch at their place. It was fucking awesome. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's where Kurt's estate is. Yeah. My exhibition season is the witch there this summer. Awesome. It's opening in July. Cool. What day in July? It will be July 22nd. Cool. Two days after my birthday. Oh, perfect. We'll still be celebrating. Awesome. Yeah. And I went there and I felt I had this amazing sense of this is exactly where I need to be. And it's such a potent property, you feel it there.

But everyone there is wonderful, I've been closely working with Olivia, the director. And yeah, she took a look at my project and we're doing it and I'm psyched. And the artwork is going, it's all about artists who utilize ritual in their creation. There's the crossover of magic in art and it's going to be an excellent show. Maybe closer to the event in the summer, we can do another one of these to get the interest. I mean, there's, I'm sure there's infinite topics of conversation for us to talk about. I feel like we can. It's pretty good. I'm glad. We're meeting friends in the Hudson Valley. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a lot of us weirdos. I know. I know. We're gravitating for some reason. I like it. Here's my last few questions. Cool. And I'm now having to add a qualifier for the first three because people are giving me shit on some of them. Okay. It's my favorite. It doesn't have to be a rock solid favorite. If you have one, that's great. It could just be something that comes to mind or something you like. So with that said, this is the people are making me do this. I've had enough people be like, I don't, I don't know if I'm afraid of it. Got it. Got it. Okay. What's your favorite color? Oh. Gray.

Cool. I think that might be the first gray. Not sure. But could be. That's cool. I love gray. I think it's a beautiful color and a lot of it's polarizing. A lot of people are like, gray can't be your favorite color. Oh, I totally can. And I'm like, yeah, I can. Yeah. I love someone with the balls to say that can't be okay. My other favorite color is iridescent. Oh, cool. Yeah. Is that a color? I say it is. Okay. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Go with it. I'm with it. I'm with it. I get it. We're getting some. Yeah. I'm with it. Yeah. What's your favorite number? It is. What's your favorite animal? Cats. Cool.

I have a black hat. I didn't say it down there because I didn't want to say it in front of Lexus. She probably won't listen this far on the show. I'm a cat person and we have a dog and I miss you. But I grew up with cats. I'm more cat-like. She fucking hates cats. Really? I don't know. I feel like maybe there was a past life dog cat interaction or something. It's a primal thing. Yeah. It's a primal thing. It's a primal thing. You know, obviously a cute cat that's nice. She's going to be nice. I also think maybe an unpopular opinion but actually a fact kittens are cute and puppies. Yeah. People don't know that unless you really get around kittens.

Oh. They are so silly. They're so amazing. They don't have really claws. Yeah. That's the best. So cute. Little aliens. Last question. Okay. Not as seemingly as trivial. Although, I don't think those questions are trivial. I don't think so. I'm very telling you. What's a practical tip that has helped you? In your life that you could share with people listening that's helped you. A practical tip. Just in general? Anything. This could be mundane, super important. Anything that's just helped you in your life. I think the golden rule. Thank you. The first person to ever say this, by the way. Really?

Yeah. Can you remind people what the golden rule is? Treat others the way you'd like to be treated. Oh, what a novel concept. It makes karma in and everything. It does. I think it gets you outside of yourself. I think it's important. Empathy. Think about what other people are going through. And it also reminds me to be kind to myself. Yes. Yes. Be kind to yourself. It's hard to be a human. It is hard. It's really hard. And I think we're here to learn certain lessons since we share so many of the same problems across the spectrum of humanity. So yeah. Being kind is very, very fucking important. Yes.

With that, Sarah, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for having me. This is so fun. Yeah, it's fun. Excellent. Awesome. Cool. Thank you. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Thank you for listening to that episode. If you want to connect with Sarah or Friend, I must be just all over the place today. But if you want to connect with Sarah, find out more about her. Check her out at I Am Sarah Potter on Instagram. She also, I believe, same name on Twitter. She just joined Snapchat, so find her there because, you know, Snapchat fucking rules. You can find me on Snapchat, username Tatiana Ali.

It's not my real Snapchat name, but I bet you can figure out what it is. Thank you to everyone who's made a donation to Synchronicity, who supported this podcast by telling your friends listening, being cool, you are fucking awesome. That's it for this week. I have so many episodes, so many episodes in the can that I'm actively having to say, no, I can't record anymore because some of these are going to be coming out a month after they were recorded. One, I'll tell you about one, I'm super excited and I think I'm going to release it next. I just recorded an episode with Jason Louvre from Ultra Culture.

He's been on Duncan's podcast twice. He was on Zach Leary's podcast once a really cool episode. I think I'm going to release that one next week. I usually don't tell you what I'm going to do, but I told you because you'll listen to the end. If you like the song that you heard in this episode, that's the thing I'm working on for creative evolution. What's creative evolution? Oh my God, how do you not know about this? It's my course on how you start and maintain a creative practice. You can't do anything with that information now, but next month, May 2017, I'm launching the full version. We're doing the beta right now.

Got about 20 people in there. We're having a great time. You will hear more about it. Don't worry. Thank you for listening. You are the coolest. Until next week. Bye bye.

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Ep. 79 - Art, Magic and Kindness with Sarah Potter

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