Addictions and New Brew with Justin Wolf

(upbeat music)

Welcome to Synchronicity. My guest this week is Justin Wolf. He is the founder of New Brew. You may have seen it around. It is in places, it happens. Things go on. What things go on, I don't know what that means. It's a beverage basically that has cratum and cratum, cratum, I don't know. I don't really know how to say it is the truth. And Kaaba. This is a pretty, if you remember a few weeks ago, maybe a little bit more, I did an episode on addiction waves. And this one kind of follows that in its own way. Justin talks about his own issues, specifically with alcohol. And it is kind of illuminating for people who may be struggling or have struggled, or know someone who's struggling with some form of addiction, not just to substances, as I've pointed out before.

But we'll talk about substances specifically for a little bit. So, you know, everyone probably knows or is one of those people I just mentioned, right? Has struggled, is struggling, or know someone who has or is struggling with addiction? It's one of the ways in which people tap into kind of some feeling of relief, however that works for them, right? Some people like being stimulated, some people like being calmed down. Some people like going on crazy psychedelic voyages. Maybe you're all of those people at any given moment, but there is this quality of living life in like an amnesiac type of way where you're born and you're helpless and you're reliant completely on other people to take care of you, and then all of a sudden, you know, you kind of have to fend for yourself at a certain point, right?

And you have support, I don't wanna make it seem like it's just the lonely, horrible existence, but it can be hard, right? Let's be honest, it's not always the easiest of things to go through, life. So, a lot of people discover that there are substances or even behaviors that can alleviate in their minds some of the difficulties and chaos and challenges that can come from, you know, life, living life. And that can, for some people, lead to addictive behaviors. And all I mean, I've defined addiction several times in this podcast over the years, probably more than a several. I specifically usually refer to it related to cannabis because that's something that I don't use it every day nowadays, but I was using it every day for a significant period of my life.

And so I was constantly analyzing and saying, like, hey, like, where does this fit into my life? What's going on? Like, how am I using this? Is this a problem, is it? And so I developed the criteria, which is my way of preventing addiction or noticing addiction, is this use of this substance or behavior negatively affecting my life or the people's lives around me? That's negatively affecting, that's pretty loose, right? And it's pretty, you're giving yourself some leeway and, you know, and also maybe having to be tight at some points with that. But it's a pretty simple form. And I do believe that the way we handle addiction as a society, as a culture in the West, in the United States, right?

We have 12 step programs, recovery programs, detox programs for substances, meetings, all these things, right? And I think they're all, if they help you, that's valid, right? That's always my stance. If it helps you, it's valid. Hopefully helping you is emerging people, but it probably isn't, right? It's probably not helping you. So don't burn our people is what I'm saying. Basically, I don't necessarily, I've thought about this. I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea of addiction as a disease. In the clinical sense, do I believe that the behaviors that lead to addiction are like, it's disease.

Like there is some aspect of your life that you're using. You're going to these kind of substances or behaviors to alleviate an energy or a frequency and maybe take you to a different frequency. Yes, I do. But I don't, I think framing something as a disease automatically creates a binding energy. It's like casting a spell around something and saying, this is what it is. And this is how you shall relate to it. And I don't necessarily agree with that. Do I think that model works for a lot of people and is very helpful? And some people truly believe and experience it that they can never have a sip of a drink.

They can never smoke a joint. They can never pop a pill. Yeah. And if you know you're that type of person, please, by all means, but pushing that on other people and saying, this is the only model that exists in terms of your relationship with substances, to me, doesn't add up. It's not like it's reserved for this one thing, right? And we have the opioid crisis in the United States right now and there are fears that it could spread to other countries. So the most other countries, even Western countries, they're way more stringent. Like they don't actually want their population to be fucked up. The United States seems to either actively want that or not care that it's happening, or maybe just be so bureaucratically infringed that they just can't make moves.

But regardless, the United States, you've heard about fentanyl, getting into many different types of drugs. It's crazy as someone, when did I smoke my first joint? Probably like '96, did my first psychedelic, probably around '98, and I'm not going to go through every single substance I've done. And the year I've done it, probably this is just a parody for the NSA and anyone else, AI that might be able to-- anyway. So it's weird to see how drug culture has evolved and where it's at now. Now it's at the point I've never been a cocaine user. I've used cocaine, but I've never been a huge user. And I've used it two decades ago, basically.

It's not my thing. But now you have to worry about if there's fentanyl in it, which sucks. If you're trying to do cocaine, which you want the benefits of cocaine, you definitely don't really want the fentanyl in it. You're basically doing an unintentional speed ball. And it's not cool that people can just die from not knowing what's in their drugs. Now I encourage people who use any substance to be very smart and test products unless they absolutely know where it's coming from, which is another reason it's a shame that a lot of these things are heavily criminalized and penalized. Because if there were safer routes, that would probably solve so much of this.

It's such a glaringly obvious solution to the question of you don't know what's in your drugs. Do you know what I mean? The drugs at the food stores, all the poison, aspartame, and all this horrible shit they put in our stuff, at least they're saying that it's in there. You can make the determination whether it's good for you or not, but they're saying that it's in there. Anyway, I know this is going to be a long intro. And it's a long intro for a reason, because I think this shit is pretty important. Because I think a lot of people may be dealing with this, just a hunch. So if you are using substances, it's just a totally different ball game right now.

And so the opioid crisis, we've heard about fentanyl. Now there's things like xylazine, all these other type of zines, these aren't even opiates, opioids. Like if you're overdosing on fentanyl, or heroin, or pain pills, or something you thought was a pill, and it's not, it's pressed with something else, Narcan will take you out of that, right? It works on the opioid receptors, and it will actually save your life, because it will stop immediately the cessation of inequalities, it blocks the opioid receptors, right? Okay, zines, xylazine, all of these things, it's just like you don't, that doesn't have any effect on it.

It's a completely different compound. It's like an opioid, but you're basically just like, it's not, someone who's not done xylazine, and I can't tell you exactly what it's like, but it's like, doesn't sound good, right? That's what trank is, if you've heard about trank, that is, you know, xylazine, and maybe like a, some fentanyl, and probably not any heroin. Like it's just, this shit is like Frankenstein fucked up drugs, and that's crazy. And then the problem with a lot of these substances is if you are predisposed to behavior that's habitual, or you like that feeling, or you're chasing that feeling, or it lets you escape a form of consciousness that you did not find pleasant and weren't enjoying, you then become physically, psychologically, potentially, emotionally addicted to these substances, and that's a problem.

And so enter one of the key players, and you know, this is something that's been going on for over a decade, I mean, longer than that, obviously, but in this country, I kinda think it's been around 20 years, 10, 20 years, Kratum, Kratum, right? This is touted as a natural, I'm giving you some context for this episode too, because I think it's important to understand what this is, while this is like a drink that you can get and drink, there are things in it that have complicated, controversial, but also very beneficial energies surrounding them, right? Kratum and Kava, both. So basically, Kratum, Kratum, I don't know, I say Kratum.

Basically, it is a plant that is found in Southeast Asia, and essentially, it helps you kind of mimic, it is an opioid agonist, I believe, I don't, I don't, I'm not a fucking chemist, I'm sorry. Hamilton, you know, you can go to him. Basically, this is something that kind of mimics the feelings that one would get from an opioid, and that can be something that is both addictive in its own right, and there are plenty of stories of people saying they've gotten addicted to this Kratum, and it is painful and not fun, and there are physical symptoms and emotional symptoms, and it's like anything, coming off of it.

I will say weed is definitely like the least. I know some people have trouble with weed, but like I've quit weed for months on end, no, I don't even think about it anymore. I was like, oh yeah, I haven't smoked in like a few days, or I haven't smoked in a month, or I went on this trip and I couldn't, there's no weed, there's no weed. Like you know what I mean? Like it's not, for me personally, some people have different experiences, but weed is like, you don't go through physical withdrawals, really, maybe you might have a weird sleep, your dreams, you know, if your dreams are suppressed, they'll come back, so get ready for that.

Anyway, my point is, is that Kratum has this history around it, where it is both very helpful for people who are trying to get off prescription, or street opioids and opiates, and it kind of helps them through some of the withdrawal symptoms, it can give them some semblance of relief if they're using any opioids for pain relief and pain management, so there's a ton of potential benefits for it, but a lot of people, like I said, also have experience that it too can be addictive, which to me points to an underlying issue here, which is what I'm trying to get at. A substance will not solve all of your problems, it's just like money won't solve all of your problems, it will solve some of your problems related to that frequency, right?

That's ultimately what were my real epiphanies on psychedelics, I should point out, is that all drugs are placebos, essentially. I don't mean they don't work, and I don't mean they don't have an effect, and we can view the pharmacological and physiological effects of these drugs. I'm not saying that, I'm not suggesting that. What I'm saying is the states of consciousness that they induce are essentially endogenous. They're not something that is coming from outside of us per se, it's something that is interacting with us that allows us to experiencing something that is innate to us. So all drugs are frequencies, can we get behind that?

That'll be what my next episode is about. All drugs are frequencies, okay? So you go to a certain frequency, you think, oh, this is how I feel when I do this thing, this is the frequency I get, oh great, okay, I'm gonna keep doing this thing so I can get to this frequency. The issue is that you move across a spectrum of frequencies. So sometimes you surpass. Now you could say this is from a pharmacological way that you've released so much dopamine, that your dopamine now levels are out of whack. So the same amount of dopamine that had this effect isn't having that same effect anymore. So you just start doing it essentially, and this is why you hear people who are addicted to opioids that at a certain point, it's not like they're doing it to even get high.

They don't get high anymore, they're just doing it not to get sick or to get well. Like that sucks. What happens there in my estimation, this is my conception of this, is you are moving frequencies, you are now surpassing the frequency of that euphoria, that elation, that calmness. You've passed it. You don't get that anymore from that substance. You can look at this from any number of ways, but you're not getting anymore 'cause you're on a different frequency. So now that that frequency may actually be bringing you down, it's actually making your state of consciousness lower because you have gone above it.

Does this mean you take drugs to raise your frequencies as a reliable tool for a consciousness? Not necessarily, but it certainly is a path. You will hear this across all cultures and traditions. There's the shamans, there's the agoras. There's so many traditions where they have medicine men and all these things like people use substances to achieve states of consciousness. But that state of consciousness is not something else. It's not outside of you. This is this, please, develop your relationship with substances based on frequency and noticing what that frequency is doing to your mindset, to your life, to people around you, all of these things, right?

This is just my personal experience. This is a good way to relate to them. And then you'll at least have a template for how to work with these things. This to me makes more sense than like saying, hey, you're an addict, you go to detox, you're gonna get through the withdrawals, and then never touch a drug again. And if you do, you may go back to being the worst drug themed ever, but never touch a drug again because you are an addict and you will be like this for the rest of your life. Fuck that. And again, if you know you're the type of person where every time you do something, you are going to keep doing it again, chasing the high or whatever you wanna call it, then don't do it.

I'm not saying this is like, please, develop your own moral code. There are stoicism is super popular. That's not particularly for me all of the time. It's good to be stoic some of the time. I don't wanna be stoic in all aspects of my life all the time, never gonna have a fucking cheeseburger, never gonna have any sense of cover. Real stoicism, by the way, is like having nothing. It's like being the ultimate minimalist and just being like, I exist and I will do it. It's like, okay, cool, that's fine. That's how you wanna live your life? Wonderful. Anyway, back to substances. Essentially what I'm saying is that I subscribe to a different model of addiction.

That doesn't mean I can't recognize what we would usually refer to as addiction in myself and other people. So, the reason I bring this up is Kratum and Kava are both substances. They're psychoactive substances. I think this conversation between Justin and I really explains that pretty well. And I think you would probably not miss that if you were listening. But I also think it's important to point out that these are substances. This is like, if I was having someone on who was talking about a new vodka drink that was just amazing, I would give the same kind of intro. I want people to know that this isn't like a little thing.

So if you have substance abuse issues or you have, don't drink, he even says, drink one, don't drink this all the time. You're not drinking these back to back, right? And it's pretty rare to hear that from someone who's promoting a product. Not sure of the business logic of it. No, I'm sure they're doing great. But seriously, don't just think this is something that is going to alleviate all of your problems all at once. But I personally, having tried it, they just send it out to me. One of the benefits of being a podcaster who's been doing this for a long ass time is people will reach out and just be like, I have this stuff, do you wanna try it?

Everyone's in all, yeah, here's my address and they'll send it. And I tried it and I liked it and I think it's cool. I am not an alcohol drinker. I do drink alcohol, but like very infrequently. I am capable of getting drunk. I've spoken about Mezcal, plenty of times on this podcast. I'm not averse to it. But I don't have issues with alcohol, right? So I just wanna point out, be mindful of when you are engaging with psychoactive substances. And I just wanted to give some context for where a lot of these substances come from. Now personally, and you'll hear this in the episode, I think Kratum and Kava are both wonderful substances.

I think compared to synthetic opioids and other mouth, I think street drugs and stuff like that, you're fine. Like, I don't think you can compare the two. But there are people who, you know, get into Kratum and you know, use 10 to 50 grams a day. And then they're like, I'm getting physical symptoms when I try to stop. It's like, yeah, you're using a shit load but you take fucking pound vitamin D to that level. You're gonna get physical symptoms, magnesium. These are things that are good for you. You can't expect your body to just completely not have any impact, you know, on, there not be any impact based on taking massive amounts of the substance.

That goes from everything from heroin to oranges to, like you can't, like you understand it's a body. It's a vessel. And I think it's a wonderful vessel and I think we should honor it. And I think we should be mindful of what we're doing. But I would encourage people to look at the concept of drugs being frequencies. I'll do that next episode, I'll expand on that idea 'cause it is something I've found. Anyway, Jesus Christ, long ass intro, almost, is that right? Almost 20 minutes long. Okay, anything else? No, I'll see you on the other end of the episode. Patreon, you know about all the cool stuff.

Go check out Justin, New Brew, just Google it. You'll see what it's about. If you're interested in it, no promos. This is not a sponsor. I wanna be very clear about that. This is something that I just was interested in. I have found Kratum to be nice. I have friends who take it, don't take it daily. I don't take it even monthly sometimes. But if you are someone who are in, you know, the throes of opioid addiction, opioid addiction, it's worth looking into. It's legal most places, but not all places. But it's something that I think could potentially be helpful. Anyway, all right. Let's get to the episode.

Without further ado, here is Justin. (upbeat music) Turn it back on. Yeah. Thanks for talking. You don't wanna miss anything. No, you never really come up. You never know. I used to have in my younger days, I used to think that I wanted to record. Like every moment, because at any time, any conversation could be so magically profound. And then I realized it's gonna be pretty fucking boring most of the time. Like, I'm not always coming up with the most profound shit. But, you know, we record some of this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta wade through all the bullshit to find those little, the gold, right?

Yeah, man. Well, I'm excited to talk today. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I appreciate it. And yeah, thanks for having me on, man. Of course. I'm very interested to speak with you for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is your product, your beverage, new brew, which was sent out to me. I wanna say like embarrassingly back in like July or August. And I just never got around to trying it. And I was like, "Oh yeah, I have these things. "Maybe I'll try them." And I was genuinely impressed. And like I've gotten samples, I've tried a lot of these kind of non-alcoholic beverages that are, you know, have some type of other psychoactive ingredient potentially in it.

And they either usually taste like absolute dirt or just they don't really do anything. So I was actually like really impressed with how you kind of made it not taste like dirt. And also there's a genuine effect to it. So I'm very curious to talk to you about that. But also I'm curious to talk to you about like who you are, how you got into this. I only kind of know you from this 'cause we were connected through this way. But like how did you kind of get started on this path? Like where do you come from? What's your interest in us? Like what's going on with you, man?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, I'd love to get into all that. And you know, like the story behind Newbrew is it's pretty much just born out of my own personal story. Right? It's the result of my own journey away from alcohol. And you know, we can get into all that and sort of the plant medicine path that I've been on, which Newbrew is a part of. But there's a whole lot more to it.

Yeah, I'd love to. I think I recorded an episode a few weeks ago about addiction and how it's not always related to physical substances, but people are addicted to a lot of different things these days. But physical substances can be particularly challenging. So I know myself, I've had issues, friends have had issues. What about your relationship with alcohol kind of needed addressing?

Yeah. And by the way, are we kind of recording like

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now I could say, okay, got it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so I had a sort of a destructive relationship with alcohol for a long time. I started drinking at a pretty young age, like maybe 12 or 13, I really got into it. And, you know, I think in the early years, it felt like I was just trying to party, right? I was trying to have a good time and connect with other people. But once I got into maybe my late teens and into my early 20s, I started to, you know, get a better understanding of why it was that I was drinking, which was not as simple as, hey, I'm trying to have a good time, right? I was self-medicating, like I really was. And even at that young age, like as an adolescent, I think I felt just very confused about the world around me as many people do and a young people do and how I fit into all of it.

And I found alcohol at such a young age as like an incredible numbing tool, right? Like it was a very easy way to just kind of not engage with those emotions or stuff them down and just like have a sort of superficial, fun time. And that, because I started at such a young age, I really, I think that became like a part of my identity in a way. It became deeply intertwined with who I saw myself to be and the relationships that I feel and just how I moved through the world. And yeah, you know, it became a crutch, I guess is what that all means. And it was really in my late 20s, once I had fallen in love and gotten married, that I had to start coming face to face with this problem.

It was something that I would just sort of repress and think about in my like dark moments alone hung over, but otherwise was really not engaging with. And, you know, I had become so accustomed to just, you know, waking up, not really knowing what I did the night before, maybe sometimes even waking up and not knowing where I was, you know, hearing some not so great stories about the night before and defending a few apology texts and then kind of moving on with my life and doing it again, right? But once I did fall in love, I started to see the pain that I was repressing in myself. I started seeing it in my wife, like I was causing this other person who I love more than anyone on earth, so much pain and so much discomfort and suffering.

And that was not something that I was willing to accept. I think, you know, I didn't love myself enough to confront the issue, but I did love her enough. So yeah, even then it took a period of a few years. I like, I tried all sorts of half measures to in a sort of desperate attempt to not quit drinking entirely. I was like, all right, I'm gonna give up hard liquor and I did that for a year. And as if that was gonna solve the problem. I really thought it would, by the way.

Of course, when you try these things, like you're doing it with like the actual logical analytical, this will work. This is a way to keep maintaining something that I know is self-destructive, but this will probably do it this time. I totally get it, man.

Yeah, this is the answer. I figured it out, like, and most importantly, I get to keep doing what I wanna do here, right? I don't have to let go of this crush. But then of course, I just very quickly started drinking like a ton of beer and wine. And I was getting to the same place. And I also just consuming an insane amount of liquid to get there. And so that wasn't a good fix. And I tried going on a medication called Naltrexone, which I'm not sure if you're familiar with it.

I am the user for opioids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Right, yeah, it's not specific to alcohol, but it sort of mutes the positive feedback response that you get from substances like alcohol. And so drinking is just kind of less fun, right? Like after you get a little bit of feedback from the first drink, and then after that, it's just kind of like, why am I drinking this? And in theory, that's potentially a great tool, but I just like over time was like, all right, I'm just gonna take half tonight. And then, oh, like, you know, this is gonna be a really fun weekend. I'm just gonna not pack that in my bag. And I was just doing the things that addicts do, right, to avoid the real power of that medication.

And so, you know, all of that happened. I got to a point in 2021, where, you know, I had come to realize that what I was self-medicating was really a lifelong issue with treatment-resistant depression, which, you know, even that is sort of vague, right? Depression can mean something very different from one person to another. But yeah, I was really having a hard time being a happy person, just to put it simply. And alcohol was the sort of shortcut to feeling good in the moment. Well, also dealing with some pretty serious consequences in the long run. So, yeah, I came to understand that a little better.

And I also understood at that point that, you know, I had been in talk therapy for 20 years. I had been shuffled on and off of different SSRIs and other antidepressant medications. And none of that really ever did much for me. And I was looking for alternatives. So I sought out psychedelic therapy. And, you know, at the time, it's a lot bigger now than even three years ago. Tell me about it. I mean, it's crazy, dude. My mom was over in Peru at like in the year 2000 somewhere around then. And to see how much it's grown to where it is now, like with ayahuasca, mushrooms, you out throw ketamine in there, even though it's not psychedelic per se, it's nuts to see how much it's evolved into like a full-fledged thing these days.

When did you do it? When was this for you?

So this is three years ago that I started to do this, to do work with psychedelics. I mean, it started with ketamine assisted therapy, which was the most accessible. And like, you know, I actually, my health insurance covered part of it, which was also crazy. And I could just go, you know, here in Los Angeles and go do it. I went through the normal course treatment, which I think was like two sessions a week for a month.

Was it? - Was it started?

Was it in ketamine? - Yeah.

It was intramuscular. So just syringe into the shoulder. So a little different than IV.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's not like the lozenges, the sort of low-dose effect. It was very much, you are going to a different dimension for-- - Your cable and buddy.

For an hour, yeah. You're basically in a controlled kale. Yeah, that's really what it is. And I had had a couple of experiences with ketamine that were not so great in a recreational setting over the years before that. So I kind of understood or respected its power, but I didn't fully know how it would be therapeutic until I went in and did it. And, you know, it was, I think after like the second session, I started to notice like a real shift occurring within me. And I was just like the journaling I was doing and the conversations I was having with the people around me started to take a different shape.

And like I was going a level deeper with my insights about myself. And a lot of that did revolve around alcohol 'cause all these feelings, these thoughts were kind of like swirling around in me for so many years. And I was like batting them away, like whack them all, right? Like, no, I'm not gonna think about that. And then this ketamine therapy, it provided kind of a safe environment for me to explore those feelings without it being like absolutely terrifying. And, you know, the result was I kind of reframed my thinking on my relationship to alcohol. And I could see more clearly the pain that it was causing me and my life and the people who love me and how it was kind of getting in the way of me being where I want it to be in life.

And that was the first major step I would say in me ultimately making the decision to leave alcohol behind entirely which I did a few months later.

That's really cool, man. Yeah, ketamine has this weird, a lot of people who listen to this podcast are familiar with ketamine 'cause I've talked about it extensively over the years. But I mean, it does have this ability to just show you many different perspectives because you dissociate, right? You're not really yourself. There's still a locus of awareness that exists but things are weird. Like of all the drugs I've ever done, it's one of the weirdest ones. You can't quite put your finger on it but it does have this way of showing you so many different angles of who you are, what your life is, what reality is, not that it's giving you firm answers on any of these but it's giving you options.

And I think that's why it is working therapeutically for so many people especially related to depression because depression is such a sticky thing. It really like that's one of the stickiest mental states that I know that exist because once you buy into it and once you're in it, it can be very difficult to just motivate yourself out of it which is really, it doesn't necessarily work like that for most people but ketamine can kind of jolt you out of that experience and provide you some, exactly like you said, opportunities for reframing, how you viewed what at least alcohol and I'm sure other things in your life we're doing.

So that's pretty dope, man, that's cool.

Yeah, totally. Everything you just said rings very true to me and I think you, you know, depression, the nature of it is that you really just can't see a way out. Like that is kind of what depression is, right? Like you're in a hole, you're in the trenches and it just feels inescapable. And sometimes all we need is a little shake, right? Like a little shift and all of a sudden like these other possibilities, these other solutions become apparent to us but that shift seems impossible until it happens. So yeah, I mean, I'm such a believer in that and you know, when I did get to the point where I left alcohol behind, I spent a few, maybe three to six months like not just sober but like 100% abstinent, like I wasn't drinking coffee.

I was really just like trying to rediscover my baseline and get comfortable with it, which I did. And that included getting off of antidepressants, which I've been on for so long.

How long were you on anti-depressants for?

Probably like 15 or so years.

I said, yeah, wow.

Yeah, never the same one for more than a couple years either.

That's probably like, truthfully, like that's probably not the worst thing. I've been hearing a lot of stories now of people who've been on the same SSRIs for extended periods of time and they're actually going through like withdrawal symptoms. So hopefully you didn't have to go through that too much but like the rotation could have actually helped you there paradoxically, but yeah, those SSRIs are wild man.

They're really intense. It's a really serious decision to take a medication like that. And I made that decision when I was like 14 years old when I was still forming, right? Like that's insane. I'm not saying that there obviously are a percentage of people whose lives are saved by those kind of medications and it's a great fit for some. But I think, I mean, I would argue like a majority of people who go in and prescribe those, there's probably a better path for them. It doesn't include just taking a daily medication to numb symptoms, which is what those medications are designed to do. Yeah. And it creates like a false sense of hope or a distraction from like a real path of healing which requires work.

Like it requires deep inner work. It cannot be done by taking a pill every morning. It just can't. Like that can help some people, but it's not a solution. So yeah, you know, I cycled off of those and then I started working with a psychedelic integration coach on psilocybin microdosing regimen and built that in several months after I quit drinking. And that was really therapeutic for me and sort of starting to build new habits, new daily practices and to just kind of get comfortable with this new way of living, right? Like I was relearning how to live almost in the absence of alcohol. So that was really helpful to me.

And yeah, I mean, I won't go on and on forever about all the different journeys and stuff I did, but I ended up doing a couple of ayahuasca retreats and some very deep mushroom journeys. And it's a path that I'm very much still on today. And that those experiences with plant medicines in the aftermath of quitting drinking are part of what I think led me to ultimately create noober this product we have here.

Yeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. I think more people are waking up or realizing just like that symptomatic treatment of like taking a pill or anything. And this goes for prescribed and non-prescribed medication or self-medication sometimes. Like it's interesting that a lot of people turn to alcohol or opioids or benzos because they are. They experience this kind of pain or this suffering, right? I don't know exactly the right term we wanna use there that they're not happy. They do feel like there's something else kind of missing or that they want to experience. And they do, they start to self-medicate and it can get very weird when you look for some external source as your only kind of source of gratification or like completeness or, and then like exactly like you described, pushing your feelings down and repressing that stuff ultimately comes with the price.

Like you pay the piper down the road, you're shoving all this stuff underneath the rug. Like what do you think is gonna happen? You're gonna have a huge bulge under the rug and people are gonna be like, "Yo, it's up with the rug." So it makes a lot of sense that people are kind of seeing that maybe there are these alternative paths. I've seen this a lot with herbal and natural kind of solutions, especially in the past two or three years. I'm lucky enough that people in my family and I've just like been connected to herbalists and people are like familiar with natural remedies for a good chunk of my life, certainly my adult life.

And it's pretty potent stuff when you really start to understand what's potentially out there. And there is something about looking at natural organic kind of like things that come from the earth in terms of like anti-anxiety or energy or whatever it may be. And I'm sure that there was some connection between the experiences you had and are having on a lot of these enthogens and now creating something that has like kava and cratum and is really kind of like it does something and it's not alcohol. So like what was the jump for you? Like, all right, I wanna create something here that doesn't exist.

There's not something like this on the market right now, but reflects kind of my journey through these like natural plants.

Yeah, well, I think when I quit drinking, I started to reflect on how that destructive relationship with alcohol was built, right? Like what led into that? And one of the big reasons is just how hyper normalized alcohol consumption is in our culture and not just consumption, but like abuse, right? Or like light alcohol abuse, especially when I was in high school or college.

Totally, high school college.

High school college.

Yeah, yeah, it was pretty normal, right? And actually like I saw the same thing with like people who were my parents' age, you know? Like no one actually was drinking the way that the CDC says drinking is supposed to be done, right?

It's like a people drink to get inebriated and it's so deeply ingrained in our culture and in our social rituals, that you are actually kind of a social pariah if you don't consume this drug, the substance. And I never thought about it that way when I was drinking, but once I had a little space from it, I started to really reflect on that. Like in particular, the ceremony of drinking, right? That's like been a part of the human experience since humans have been on Earth one way or another. And in today's, you know, in modern society, that ceremony, that ritual is entirely dominated by one type of drink, by one substance, right, and alcohol.

And I just thought and think that that's insane, right? Like this, why have we chosen alcohol this? Like really, I mean, look, I don't think anything is inherently good or bad, right? But alcohol is particularly destructive. It is a neurotoxin. It's really bad for basically every one of our bodily systems. It's cancer-causing. It really impairs one's judgment, it can harm relationships. I mean--

It's poison at the end of the day.

It's reported that like, it's poison, right? And even then, like, I want to be clear. Like I think everyone has the right to choose to poison themselves. Like I don't look back on all the years of drinking and think it was all for nothing. Like I met a lot of amazing lifelong friends, like through like drinking situations. And like I learned a whole lot. So yeah, I'm not saying like everyone needs to quit drinking and this is all wrong. But I think that the way that we all think about alcohol makes it a lot harder to build a healthy relationship with it and to like be honest with oneself about it.

So yeah, I mean, that was the first thing I started thinking about. And once I had quit, I started to look at the sort of alternative beverage market or the non-alk NA beverage market that really was beginning to boom a few years ago. And now it's even bigger.

Yeah.

And I got really curious, like, what are these products, right? I started just like buying and testing out everything that I saw. You know, there's certain products that I really love. Like I love NA beers. It's, you know, I'd still like the taste of beer and that's great to have like on a hot day. But when it came to the sort of functional like mocktail market, which is I think the most popular sector of the category, I was struggling to find any product that lived up to its claims. You know, a lot of those products are marketed as mood boosting or, you know, relaxing or stress relieving, whatever it might be.

And whenever I drink one, I realized like this is just placebo effect.

Right.

There is nothing actually going on with me, right? Like to the extent I feel anything, it's because I was told I would. And I just paid like $9 for this glorified can of water. And I was just really like kind of dumbfounded by this whole thing. And I realized like, okay, these products and these brands are succeeding in spite of the fact that their products are expensive, usually don't taste good and do nothing. And that just is, that reflects the intense demand that there is out there for real functional alternatives to alcohol. Cause there's a lot of people like me or maybe people who just want to take a day or a week or a month off drinking, maybe don't want to quit entirely.

But people are really like thinking about their relationships alcohol in a new way and looking for different types of experiences. And I just don't think that the market has met that demand properly. So I had this idea kind of floating around in my head and pretty soon thereafter I was on vacation with my wife and we stumbled into a Kava bar where they were serving Kava root and proud and leaf and kind of mixtures of the two, which is exactly what we serve up in our beverage, Noober. And we tried that mixture together for the first time and we're just kind of blown away by the set of effects that it conferred.

We were like very open-hearted and like grounded and connected. We were more social and talkative, kind of like what you try to get out of alcohol, right? But in no way were we inebriated or impaired. Like we felt very relaxed, but we weren't sloppy at all. We went and got a really good workout in after and just went about our day. There was no like hangover or crash or anything like that. And yeah, my mind was blown. Like, one, because of how incredible that experience was. But two, because I was just shocked and I just hadn't found its way into a ready-to-drink beverage that you can buy at the liquor store instead of alcohol.

And that's where the light bulb kind of went off. I wanted to find a way to introduce these plants in like a good tasting beverage that people can reach for. And maybe take some space from alcohol, but still feel a little something, still feel a little buzz, have a little shift and really feel like a part of that ritual, even if other people are drinking alcohol.

That's pretty cool, man. It's interesting. There must have been a lot that happened though in between that experience and actually like coming up with a product that again works and also isn't bad. Like that, I mean, being as clear as I can about a lot of products in the space that kind of report to do this. Like they just don't taste good. And like, you know, there's a lot of ways you can do things. You can smoke something if you wanna, you know, you can go for a lot of different options if you, but if you wanna enjoy something, that's kind of a thing. Like, so what kind of research after you discovered Kava and Kratum, like what did you start to, how did you start to explore those and figure out like how do I get this to be something that I have a vision for in my mind?

Yeah, you know, I started to seek out and order a variety of different Kratum and Kava raw ingredient products, both like holy ground up root and then ultimately extracts. Some of them with specific alkaloids kind of isolated, others that were full spectrum extracts that sort of mirrored the alkaloid profile of the plant pretty closely. And I just got real experimental and did a lot of kitchen chemistry along with my brother who was also a co-founder of the company. And, you know, we, well, we quickly learned that neither plant tastes very good, even as an extract there, extremely bitter.

Yeah.

Yeah, we got very familiar with that. So there was, it took almost a year of iterating on the formula and trying different things out with different sweeteners to land on a product that properly infused both botanical ingredients at the right serving size that we wanted, which is a very low serving, like sort of the lowest threshold serving that you can still feel. But is low sugar and low calorie that has nothing artificial in it. We didn't want to take the path that many brands like you just mentioned take, where they'll add like 15 grams of erythritol or some artificial sweetener that no one's even heard of and then market themselves as sugar-free.

It's like, no, the whole sugar-free thing is ridiculous. Like if you actually understand the ingredients that are in those products, like just low sugar, right? We have three grams of sugar. It's organic cane sugar and organic agave. And yeah, we found the right way to balance all these things and have a really a great flavor profile that's ultimately kind of like a light sparkling tea. Like the base of New Year is, it's either in Earl Grey tea or in Hulong tea and then it's infused with organic fruit juice and then these plants.

Yeah, it's pretty good because like, it's almost like a shrub, but not as intense. And it's like a cool, I like it because, and I also like what you mentioned, that it's like a very low dose of this stuff because freedom in particular, I think in recent years has kind of found itself in this weird place. The first I ever heard about it was probably like, I don't know, 10 years ago, because I guess the government was trying to, the FDA was trying to basically ban it and then states were going out of their way to ban it. If I'm not mistaken, I think Louisiana, it still might be illegal, but like, it found its way into kind of the zeitgeist because of the opioid crisis.

For a lot of people, they found that either weaning themselves off of opioids with cradum or using it to alleviate certain symptoms or change their relationship because it is, it's an opioid agonist, I think, right? So it was helping a lot of people. And then I have noticed in the past two, three, four years, there's been this kind of backlash of people are like, cradum, I just got addicted to cradum. And now these people mind you from my, you know, Reddit research here, basically is what it's based on, are doing very high doses of this stuff. As soon as you move into an extract game, you're doing crazy amounts.

If you're using like 15, 20 to 50 grams a day of cradum, even if it's just like the lowest stuff is on a daily basis, any substance, we were talking about SSRIs before. Same deal, anything you're taking daily every single day regularly, unless it's like a vitamin or something, is gonna alter your mind and your body pretty significantly. So I've seen this kind of like clash of people demonizing and praising cradum. But again, these are at doses that are much higher than what you're finding in something like new brew. So it's kind of like this nice in-between place of like, yeah, it's gonna make you feel a little bit differently, but it's not, you're not gonna get like rolled.

And you're not gonna start drinking like 10 of these a day. That doesn't seem like it has the potential for that type of abuse. So I'm curious your thoughts though, because it is cradum is like this weird thing now. What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, well said, it's a very polarizing topic. And what we see in conversations in the media or amongst activists or even on social media is two different camps, right? There's like the VM and with the anti-cradum camp and then the very pro-cradum camp. And there's not a lot of room for nuance or middle ground. And I think a lot gets lost as a result. The truth is, as I said before about alcohol, like nothing is good or bad. This is a psychoactive substance that makes you feel good. It can give you energy, it can be used for all sorts of different things that we can get into. But to your point, you still have to be mindful of your use, right?

It's, you can't, just because it's a plant doesn't mean it's totally benign. If it was benign, then it wouldn't work and it wouldn't be in our beverage and people wouldn't be using it the way they are. So, yeah, our recommendations to people who are consuming cradum or want to try new brew specifically is to not consume it every day. You know, when you're first trying it, drink half the can, kind of sip slowly and assess your tolerance for it and how it's making you feel. And there's really, I don't think any reason to ever drink more than two cans in one sitting. It's not like alcohol where you want to just keep going and going and going.

I think with both cradum and kava, it's sort of diminishing returns. Like it gets you where you want to get and from there, just like drink water and just enjoy it. It's weird for people because they're used to consuming things like beer, right? Where you just want to keep going. But yeah, we find our sort of like in the middle of that polarized debate, trying to educate people and just bring out the best information that's available to be as transparent as possible about a brand and lead with that education, right? Like it's not your average product. We're not, the idea is not to get everyone to try out a new brew.

It's to help people learn about these plants and then kind of make a decision for themselves an informed decision about whether it fits into their life, their lifestyle, to the prior point about dosage. Yeah, I mean, cradum behaves very differently in low doses versus high doses. The high dose use case is what it's best known for in the US as you pointed out. We've been amidst this opioid crisis for many years now and cradum acts as a natural and safer alternative to synthetic opioids for people who want to get off of them, right, but you know, rather than going into a clinic and getting on suboxone or methadone, which is also very potent opioids, you can find a way to wean themselves off using cradum and that's how it's best known in the US.

The traditional use case for cradum is more in line with the low dose. So, and that's what we use in new brew and that is actually, you know, functions more as a productivity tool than anything else. Yeah. In that low serving, it acts as a mild stimulant. So, the cradum tree is actually in the coffee family. Like scientifically, it's like, you know, one step to the right, one step up or something. So, it does have some similar properties. The energy that it gives you is a little bit less jittery than what coffee does or caffeine does. It's more of like a balanced, grounded, kind of calm energy.

And in its native land in Indonesia and Thailand and Vietnam, all Asia countries like that in Southeast Asia, they will brew like a big bag of cradum tea in the morning and drink it throughout the day as they're working. And it helps them maintain like, you know, higher energy levels and also gives them a little mood lift throughout the day too. And that's just an entirely different experience than the high dose use case, where people are consuming really as much cradum as possible to try to mimic the effects of a synthetic opioid. And the cradum itself is not an opioid. It does interact with opioid receptors, but it doesn't bind to them fully the way that an opioid does.

You have to take really, really high quantities of it to get that sort of effect. And look, there's, cradum has saved many, many lives as a result, like that alone is reason enough to keep it legal and accessible and to help to protect the plant, right? Even if there weren't this other use case.

Yeah, totally. I mean, I probably find myself being on the pro cradum position just because as you pointed out, anything has the potential for abuse. And it's just you do have to be mindful of what you're doing. And if you find yourself using large amounts relative to like a singular dose of anything, you have to start questioning your behavior. It doesn't mean you can't do it. I'm not saying if you want to take high doses of cradum for the rest of your life, you can't do that. Same if you want to do heroin every day for the rest of your life. There are surprisingly little physical consequences from doing that, but you know, there's other stuff that comes along with that as well.

So I think if it is helping people and it is providing in its traditional sense, like you're saying a mood boost. I mean, that's how I have perceived it. When I tried this, it was basically, it felt like the cradum was the stimulant and the cava was kind of the relaxing aspect of just having tried both of them before. That was kind of my take on it, which is, you know, I thought it was a pretty nice place to be, to be honest, it's bad.

Definitely, yeah, I would agree. And yeah, those are the sort of like blanket effects for the two different plants. In combination with one another, I think like how I would describe, best describe the effects of our product new brew is it gets you into a flow state. Like it helps you feel like increased focus and awareness. But you are also relaxed at the same time. So, you know, this product functions just as well as a productivity tool as it does an alcohol alternative. In fact, I think I find myself using it more in line with like work or even exercise use cases than I do in social settings.

So it can be really powerful in that way. And yeah, like for me and for so many of the people around me and many of the customers that we talk to, it's really improved their quality of living. Like it helps them get things done. It helps them feel relaxed and empathetic and opens others and social situations without having to turn to something like alcohol. And it's just a powerful tool in that way, right? And the way I sort of describe this to people is like, yeah, new brew is an amazing tool. It can really help you out in all these different ways. And it's important to keep it as a tool, right?

And if you don't want it to cross that line and to being a crutch because it can, right? Like anything else that's helpful, if you lean too heavily into it, then all of a sudden you kind of, you know, one day you realize like, I'm not 100% calling the shots here anymore.

Right, yeah. - And yeah. It's important to just be mindful about how and why you're consuming it. And then it can be this like beautiful thing that you have access to that really helps you out.

Yeah, it's really interesting to hear you put it like that too because when you hear about a lot of these kind of non-alcoholic beverages that have some type of psychoactive activity, you're like, well, you typically think of just how alcohol is typically used in society, especially Western society. It's just like, it is used to access very often. It's kind of the goal and how it's marketed and how it's pitched. They're trying to sell volume. So it's interesting to hear you like, make a clear distinction between how you view this and alcohol specifically or any other substance that you're doing to access because that's like a, it's kind of more like a psychedelic or like you would, no one would do acid every day for three years in a row.

I did in college do it, you know, for a couple weeks straight and I'll tell you that's a wild time, but like most people don't have a desire to use a heavy psychedelic every day. I'm not implying that anything that's a new bruise, a heavy psychedelic, but it doesn't feel like something like I would want to be doing constantly and like let it turn into a habit because it does provide, I use it for the same thing. I think I had four cans of this stuff. You know, it took me about, I think six weeks to finish. I was just doing it in between like for podcasts and stuff or if I had to record something with someone.

Like it's a, it did feel like a productivity thing. It didn't feel like, oh, let me get fucked up. Let me do this so I can, you know, you get like a crazy buzz and not have to focus on anything. I'm not saying you couldn't use it for that, but it did feel more of like a tool than some product design to kind of just like get you fucked up. And I thought that was pretty cool.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, man, that's, that's the kind of thing.

That's exactly how we want people to be engaging with it. And, you know, it's also important to point out that the Cratum market to date is primarily made up of like really highly concentrated products. And that's the big reason why it's earned the reputation that it has is because if you go into any smoke shop or gas station, they'll have a Cratum section. And most of the products are like little one or two ounce shots or like a capsule that has as much Cratum as like eight or 10 newbers and one little shot that you slug back. And look, that's a very different thing, right? It's the same plant, but that's an entirely different thing that you're consuming.

You know, if you are, let's say you want to try alcohol for the first time, if you rip like four shots of whiskey rather than just having your first beer, like think of how alcohol would seem to you as a substance, right? And that just became how you understood alcohol, like, and that's how you drink every time you drink, then you're, you know, that's going to be bad. You're going to have bad experiences. You're going to develop dependency on it. And yeah, again, that's why we really encourage or I personally encourage, you know, microdosing, if you will, with almost any substance. There's a time and place for like deep journeying.

I'm a big proponent of that. But when it comes to something like cannabis or alcohol or cradam, kava, yeah, just take a little bit, right? And enjoy that. I think I've heard Hamilton Morris use the praise, like play the long game, right? You don't want to build this terrible relationship with the substance and have to, you know, totally boot it out of your life, right? Like just try to really enjoy it and make good use of it. And yeah, that's what we're trying to encourage as a brand, which is a little counter, it sounds a little counterintuitive to some people because most beverage companies are trying to get people to drink as many of their beverages as possible.

And that's true of alcohol brands too, right? But we feel a responsibility to let people know that's not the way to do this ahead of time, especially because most people are new to these plants. And we're trying to like proactively push people to the Learn page on our website before they even go to the shop page, right? Like really just learn a little bit. Take five, 10 minutes and educate yourself and, you know, do your own research outside of our website too. And then make the decision for yourself.

Which is, I will say a very kind of like noble thing to do because if for anyone who doesn't know, if you push people to a shop page intentionally over another page, they will buy more. Like it is just a math thing. So like you're literally leaving money on the table by doing that, which I like because I do think these things should be viewed responsibly. That's kind of how I end up on the pro side of all substances, like just try to be mindful. And if it gets out of hand, try to pursue like you were mentioning earlier the psychedelic experiences that had you kind of go inward. Like that's the stuff that really is important in your life.

I realize, I've realized this through many different modalities but like you can, whatever you think is gonna be the external solution for your internal problems, once that's achieved, you will quickly realize that ain't it. It doesn't matter. There's no thing, it could be money. It could be a relationship. It could be a substance. It could be anything under the sun but like there's something that a lot of us find ourselves at one point in another self-medicating which can quickly turn into addiction, especially if it's related to not feeling something like stress or anxiety or loneliness or whatever it is.

So trying to address those issues like truthfully is the most important thing. And once you do that, I feel like that's when you can actually start enjoying substances or drinks or whatever it is in a unique way. And to be clear, like I'm not much of a drinker. I drink the most of anything in high school and college. I could drink, in high school, honestly, I could drink so much more, like so much more than I can now. And I rarely drink so I don't have that but there are other substances that I have found that are highly addictive and you are very easy to fall into a weird relationship with. So it can be useful to just kind of address the issues that get you there in the first place and then experience these things.

It's not like necessarily a medicine that's gonna fix all of your issues but it's something that I can say like, it's an experience you kind of know what you're signing up for when you use these things and it's not a bad thing. It's not, there's nothing wrong with getting a mood boost or feeling more relaxed and less tense at times. And if you use that responsibly and don't fall into an addictive pattern with it, like I'm all for it. Like life is complicated, hard, confusing, difficult. It takes many years to realize things. Just when we think we know everything, we find out like five, 10 years later we didn't know shit.

It's difficult. It's just, it's how things work. So I get it, man. I really do respect that you're trying to approach this from like a pretty holistic way, not just kind of like pushing something that's gonna get someone fucked up. That's really nice to hear.

Yeah, thank you, man. I really appreciate it. I think we're trying to approach this in the way that we wish alcohol companies did, right? To lead with transparency and honesty about the upsides, but also the risks. And to just give people as much information as possible. And I hope that one day we can get big enough where others kind of follow in line with that or that we inspire others to take a similar approach. It's a really interesting time to be embarking on this journey with sort of like exiting the war on drugs and the way that our society views substance use in general is still so polarized, just like the debate around these plants in particular.

And trying to like enter the market with this like really balanced viewpoint is it's kind of a, it's a new thing. Like people aren't used to it. They're not used to a company like really taking that position up front and being totally honest with people. So yeah, man, I think beyond like the product itself, I'm hoping we can have a bit of an impact on the industry at large but the way that we're trying to lead by example.

I like it, man. I really do. I respect the hell out of it because it's weird this day and age how things are marketed. And this goes beyond substances and drinks and things like that. I think a lot of people are completely unprepared, right? I was born in '83. So like I remember before the internet, I feel like an old person talking about this officially like a few years ago saying this but like I remember when things were the before times when it wasn't, you were immediately plugged into whatever weird digital layer of consciousness that exists now. So even despite that, I don't remember it escalating to this point like via a time and place.

I just remember slowly the internet exists. It was pretty awesome. I was pretty young. And now here we are. We're like most people have like a pretty weird relationship with their phone, you know, whether it's social media or whatever it is. A lot of people have issues with this. And it's the similar type of vibe of how things kind of are marketed and promoted not just in the alcohol industry, but any. Any industry. And it's kind of just like volume based, you know, repetition, weird subliminal stuff, kind of like over and over repetitive stuff. And I think people are truly getting fed up with it.

Like they kind of recognize and have caught on over a course of, you know, 10 years or so, how kind of dominant it's gotten. And I think that vibe is just shifting. I don't think it's going to be quickly, but I think in the next five to 10 years we're probably going to see a new type of just people who recognize it's not just about that all the time. It's not just about beating people over the head to consume and watch and do and it's not. No one's really benefiting from it in the long term. So I'm hoping that that shifts pretty, pretty, you know, on pace for things. I don't believe usually that their cataclysmic changes.

If a big change in a quantum leap happens, it takes a period of time where it becomes kind of indistinguishable from like a regular part of life. So we'll see.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, man. So that's how progress looks, right? It's like two step forward, one step back. And I do think that we're heading in the right directions to your point. People are being more mindful about their consumption of not just, you know, food or beverage, but technology and content and starting to question why that content exists, why it ended up in my algorithm, right? Like, I don't know, I think, I guess I'm a little bit of an optimist in this way, but I do think people are waking up to that sort of thing.

Yeah, it seems like, it seems, I'm basing it apart on people I know and myself and just seeing it, but it also is so egregious at this point. I mean, my tipping point is, this is really what did it for me because I'm a lifelong dolphins fan and they had a prime day game on the NFL for the dolphins and they stuck an ad into every possible, any potential place there was to stick in an ad for like the upcoming Thanksgiving day or Black Friday sale. So I was like, this is just disgusting. Like, I love this team and I barely can watch this because of what they're doing around it. And so I just think it's kind of hitting a tipping point and hopefully people are gravitating towards more authentic and like helpful, like, I really do believe like, if we're putting anything out in the world, it should be based with the intention of some type of like, love for the collective or other people, just something you love to do would even suffice because that vibe is ultimately what people are catching.

I mean, I just kind of grew up with this being a musician kind of recognizing that's what's going on with music and that's what's going on with everyone. So as long as people are emanating that vibe, I think that should maintain and get amplified as things continue to evolve. And so I'm an optimist in that way as well. What, so people, if people are interested, where should they go to find out about your product? Where is it available? What's the best way to do this for them?

So our website is drinknewbrew.com. You can order the product there. And again, I would recommend that everyone check out learn page, learn a little bit more about these plants and about the background of our company and everything before you choose to go ahead with the purchase. So that's available to anyone across the country. We're also in retail, in particular, in Southern California and in the Austin area. By the time this is released, I think Miami will be a pretty big market for us too. So those are the three hubs. If you go to our website and check out the store locator, you can see if there's a store close to you and go grab one.

But otherwise, you can just order it there on the website.

Awesome, cool man. I really appreciate it. I've been renewing something I've been doing at the end of podcast recently. So three questions and then one other question after that. What's your favorite color?

Green.

What's your favorite number?

A.

What's your favorite animal?

Ooh, that's always been the hardest one for me. I'd have to say it's an orca at the end of the day. Even as a kid, I was terrified of whales and particularly orchas in a way where I wasn't even afraid of sharks, but specifically whales scared the shit out of me. And throughout my life, I've just learned a lot about whales and gained deep appreciation for them. I'm still scared of them, but in a way where, I don't know, I think I just admire them. So that's my answer.

That's a good one. They do have huge brains too, like whales in general, just they're very large. I think the one of the brain-

Oh, huge brain intelligent.

Yeah, so it's like a whole other world down under there. And then last question, what's a practical tip that's helped you in your life that you could share with people listening? Could be anything.

Yeah. Well, we talked a lot about alcohol and substance use, substance use disorder. And I think I've spoken to the ways in which psychedelic therapy helped me a lot and even tools like New Brew helped me stay away from alcohol. But I'd say, and this sounds like very obvious, but the best recommendation I can give to anyone who really is trying to replace an addiction of any kind is to exercise, to go move your body. At the end of the day, there's nothing more healing. I very plainly transferred my addiction from alcohol into an addiction to working out, like to the point where it's almost unhealthy or like I feel horrible if I don't work out for two days in a row, but I can live with that addiction.

And it just, yeah, it's changed every aspect of my being for the better. So if you feel like you've tried so many different things to improve your life, but you haven't tried that one, you got to try that one, 'cause that will make all the difference.

It's so true. It's something that I rediscover many times throughout my life that like, you just kind of have to get in the groove with it. Like if you want to do something every day, it's one of the few things that you can actually really benefit from most people. So I love it, man. Justin, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

No, thank you so much for having me on, man. It's a really great chatting with you. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

Hope you enjoyed that episode. You can just Google New Brew. If you're interested in it, I thought it was cool. Like I said, it's not a sponsorship. I just thought it was a decent product and I was particularly interested in Kratum. And yeah, it was cool. It's cool to hear from Justin. Go check out the Patreon. I'm probably gonna switch up. I don't know exactly how to say this, but I'm gonna be changing the Patreon in a cool way. Trying to keep it fresh, basically. That's the idea. So I released a playlist there. There's also a free version of the Patreon. If you didn't know, you can go and check that out.

You can sign up. I released a playlist there. But I'm trying to think of some other things. I actually have some other things planned for the Patreon that I will be unveiling. Current patrons need not worry, they will be included. But just more stuff we can do. Tomorrow, this is coming out Wednesday, April 17th. Tomorrow, Thursday, April 18th at 6.30 PM Eastern, we are doing a group thing. Like a group leveling up session. Is that what I'm calling? What we're getting together. We're doing these once a month. You can go and check that out. There will be a link in the show notes. There's also the stand store.

You know about the stand store? Is it synchronicity, stand store? Anyway, it's like where all the digital stuff is. That's going on. I will probably cap it at like 10, no more than 15 people. We're pretty close. I'm just putting this out there 'cause I don't want anyone to feel like they didn't hear that it is happening. It's a good option. I've been doing these coaching sessions with people and those are amazing. They're one to ones. This is a really good opportunity to kind of get that energy and vibe. Plus the added benefit of other people being there. I, it's been fun. We've been enjoying doing it.

Anyway, that's it. I will see you next week. Unless you're a patron, then I see you every Monday and Tuesday. But I will see you next week if you're listening to this and this alone. Lots of love. Happy imagining. The savings are here. Happy birthday, America. It's America's 250th birthday. We're celebrating Alma Vlog at Nielsen Chevy. By giving you freedom of choice. Save up to $250 off service. Save up to $250 off accessories. With leases for $250 or under. Perried, a Route 46 and Dover. Or shop online at Nielsenchevy.com. Together, let's drive. And Nielsen Chevy. Fun is in the driver's seat.