Safe and Sound with Gazit Chaya

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Welcome to Synchronicity. My guest this week is Gazet Haya. They are a awesome person who really, really opened my eyes up to this safe and sound protocol. And a lot of other things. Gazet has a way of kind of like breaking down something that's a relatively like traditional clinical protocol that's like administered by licensed therapists, but is clearly very woo. We like the woo people. More importantly, we like people who can hold multiple perspectives at the same time. That's a nice thing for this day and age. You know those people, they're fine. It's getting harder and harder to find those types of people.

People are getting locked into certain perspectives and ideas and, you know, we're trying to not do that, but it can be a thing. Anyway, not judgment, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. Anyway, amazing person. You're gonna love it. I guarantee this episode is gonna be up your alley. The Safe and Sound Protocol, if you wanna find out more, you can check out Gazet's website and experiencer, anexperiencer.com. There will be links in the show notes for everything. A reminder, here's the deal. I know there are ads now at the beginning and the end of this show. And not everyone likes those ads. Guess what?

On Patreon, no ads. I upload the episodes with no ads. You can get those plus bonus episodes, plus weekly readings, plus live streams. Once a month, it's a pretty cool place. We're having fun. I just got back from Lake Placid, saw the eclipse, the totality, it was dope. It was really awesome. It was totally worth it. And guess what, guys? I looked at it directly with no glasses. Not leading up to it, not when the sun is shining, but in totality, you look without glasses. It's totally fine. I'm not blind. Don't believe the people. Not advocating staring at the sun. I'm just saying, you don't have to be all freaked out.

Also, no bad vibes, no weird juju or whatever. It was totally cool, totally fine. The hardest part was traveling with three kids. That's the hardest thing. Three, you turn into a four hour drive. We left the day of 'cause fuck it. Let's make it as difficult as possible. Other than that, it was totally fine. Really, just like a lovely, lovely trip. And I'm really glad I got to see it. I hope the eclipse was nice for you. Mercury retrograde continues. We're good. We're getting through it, guys. 2024, do we feel the shifts? I don't think it is quite settled in yet into what it will be, but we are certainly moving more towards what it will be.

And we know this is the transitionary time, and it's just like, let's just do it. Let's get through it. And maybe the SS people help you, the Save and Sound Protocol. I think this is something that can be of assistance to a lot of people. Many people, including myself, have kind of been in survival mode for the past two years or so. And that's maybe been thrown some of us off who have just not really experienced too much of that in our lives, and this is something that I think could help a lot of people. So, you know, I think you're really gonna like it is what I'm trying to say. Connect with Gaza.

She's amazing. You are going to enjoy this episode without further ado, here is Gaza Kaya. Recording now, that's just so I don't forget, but really, thank you for taking the time to do this. Oh, my gosh. It's such a joy. And I'm so sorry that you got the stomach bug, and then my kid got it. I'm chill. It was, I was really close to going to the hospital. I never think that I need to go to the hospital for everything, just because of the prospect of sitting in an emergency room all so not feeling well is worse than the idea of just toughing it out. But I had never had stomach cramps like that, and I had a stomach bug a few months ago that my kids got.

It was just like your stomach hurts, you puke, you get it out, you kind of feel like shit the next day and you're fine. This was just like my stomach. It was like, maybe there's something wrong with me. And then I came, I was on my way, I was going to go to the hospital and then I was like, I got to puke. I don't want to be puking in the hospital waiting room and the hospital was like five minutes from my place. I was like, I'll go there. I puked. I slowly started to feel better. And I was like, holy shit, that was wild, but I'm just kind of taking it as a warning to be healthy. It was like, you know, just be as healthy as you can right now.

Because honestly, I think it might have to do with the eclipse or something because there's seven people in my orbit that have had a stomach bug in this week. And none of them are local fucking weird. Yeah, it was really weird. I, I don't remember that and, and I really never remember, I never remember thinking like I might need to go to the hospital. I was like, maybe something is seriously wrong because like they're like, you read the things on Google and it's like, Hey, you know, if the pain's a nine or 10, I'm like, this is like a seven or eight. So I'm like at this. And it was, it lasted from like the middle of the night until like, I don't know, noon one PM the next day and was getting worse like in the morning and I was like, fuck, I told my wife, I was like, I think I've got to go, but well, the 50 days, like a digestive upgrade thing that I was reading about yesterday.

And I wonder, like, I wonder if there's something happening because they're like, you know, who was justice kid, it was you, it was my kid. It was like four other people I work with and they're all in different places in the world. So it's really weird. It is a quipcy. I let, well, let's get started. I mean, I'm excited to talk about so many of the things that you are interested in that I don't know about or I know a little bit about, but would love a further explanation. You came super highly recommended from Jessa, which whenever she says something like, I think this is really something I at least look into it, sometimes I'm like, I get it.

And sometimes I'm like, I don't get it. This time that what she mentioned was SSP, the safe and sound protocol. But I know the 55th Jean Key stuff, like I really want to delve into that too. But I'd be curious how you kind of discovered SSP. And if you could give like an overview of what it is, like I want to talk about a bunch of different stuff, but like that I am particularly interested in for a variety of reasons, but I want to kind of like hear from you like how you found it, what it is because people, some people have heard about this, but a lot of people haven't. So I'm curious to hear about it.

Yeah, it's kind of cool because it's from a really straight narrow side of like the world. And so I don't think it's been very talked about in this part of the world. Because it's a very like sciencey thing, like the only people who can get certified in it are like licensed therapists or speech pathologists or occupational therapists. So it's like a pretty, I don't know, like standard Western kind of a modality, but it has this magical like creates this bridge for me between the trauma world and the manifesting world because the trauma world, you have all these people who are like, yeah, I've got all of the aces, like I'm doing EMDR and like shadow work 24/7, and I'm still miserable.

And I don't know how to help myself, right? And then you've got the manifesting world that's all like, what you can picture in your head, you can hold in your hand, you know, and it's like, there's no real like connectivity between those two groups of people. And I feel like they're going to be because both of them are true, like, yeah, trauma is real and it can be really hard to be a human if you've had a lot of trauma. And it can just be hard to be a human on this planet. But at the same time, like reality creation is real. And when you are in like a chronic fight flight freeze, you're really going to just manifest challenges and obstacles.

Totally. Totally. And so if you spend all day doing affirmations and your nervous system is like, but I think we're going to die, like, you know, the universe speaks energy. It doesn't speak English. And so for those of us that were not gifted with this like, amassing situation where we're just like, believe that we're worthwhile and we deserve to be on the planet, like we need help to be able to access the reality creation stuff. I love that part of it too, because this is, I've done this show long enough that people can see the arcs in my life when I'm like super flowy manifesting and then I'm clearly in some like trauma response at various points because it's been like nine years and it's been like at least two or three cycles of that.

And I, and I think so, this applies for like almost all people and what I've found is even the, the really great manifesters who maybe grew up with very little trauma or haven't experienced, you know, whatever trauma they could say someone else experienced. So they have a problem with manifesting. Most people will go through periods in their life where there is an ebb. I haven't met a human being really of a certain age. Let's just say like, I just turned 40. You increasingly find less people who haven't had traumatic experience like they're there. It happens. Life is hard. Like what life is going to throw you challenges.

I personally think that they're functional and it's not like a bad thing, but it's hard to remember that if you do go into this fight or flight response thing, which I know I go through. And it's just like you're saying it's not English. That's why I always say the feeling is the thing. It doesn't understand the English, the words you're trying to communicate with your affirmations or anything else. It's how you feel and genuinely feel. And if you find that you can't easily shift into that feeling, it's okay to get some help. It's like not the worst thing in the world. And the fact that there, this does come from the clinical world is particularly interesting.

I was literally just reading a research study, the one in Okayama about this. And it was really fascinating. It's not a lot of people, but it was clinically up to snuff. It really was and it was really helping people. Anyway, I digress. Please continue. Yeah. So, you know, my in to it was that I'm trained as a speech pathologist. So I was, you know, 15 years working in public schools with kids, all kinds of neuro diverse kids. And I was like trained by the US government in autism, like one of the first waves of speech pathologists to be trained specifically for this like growing population, whatever.

So I got the really one sided pathologizing perspective on neuro diversity. And all through those years, I was like, this is not it. Like these people are not, they're not, they don't have a pathology. Like they are demonstrating that they aren't like the concept of pendulums, right? Or if you want to call them rules, they're just individuals who do not have the capacity to be like sucked into the pendulums in the same way that other folks do, which is actually a huge gift, right? Those of us who are not neuro diverse, I don't include myself in that I'm very neuro diverse. But people who are not as neuro diverse are like, all right, give me a pendulum, give me a rule, give me an authority, I'll do what you say.

And I'll like win because I can follow those rules. And then there's this whole crop of humans and more and more who are like, yeah, that doesn't make sense. And I'm not going to do it. And I think that my opinion is actually more valid than this external authority. So it's like a superpower, but it at the same time makes living in society very challenging, right? Yeah, yeah, it does. So it comes with like all these sensitivities to sound and to light and to textures and to clothing and to having to schedule or focus, you know, it's the whole like cross of planning over to whatever it's sleeping, Phoenix.

It's like those of us who were born in the cross of planning time, when we and we did not have the skillset to be able to follow all these pendulums, like we got told that something was really wrong with us and it's isolating when you try to actually like respect your nervous system and not force yourself to be out in this over stimulating world. So anyways, I was experiencing all of that. I'm a person who had three brain injuries before I was three years old and so have been like so neurodiverse, my whole existence. So I experienced that on a personal level and then I was like being told to put these kids into boxes and make them follow the rules and I was like, this is jacked up.

Like there's something really wrong with this. You know, I was like crushing my own soul as I was crushing children's souls, which I never really did. I was like, had my secret like bat cave in the school where like everyone could come and be themselves. That's awesome. I'm sure you couldn't like actually do it, but you're in the system that is doing that. So that's got to be its own type. So I was like in arguments and like getting repercussions from authorities, like all of the time. So it just was progressively not working and getting really hard for my soul. And so I was desperately looking for stuff to help myself and also to get me out of the public school system.

And my doctor recommended like a free workshop on polyvagal theory, which is what the safe and sound protocol is based off of. And it's basically like it takes the mainstream perspective on nervous system, which is just like you're either in fight flight or you're in rest and I just and it as if yeah, right? So neat and tidy and then it just like expands it to all the different complexities. And it brings this really cool perspective on behavior because it basically says like behavior is just an indication of nervous system state. So all nervous system states are morally neutral because they it's just a program that's running.

It's just a, you know, a technology in our bodies and you can't be in the wrong nervous system state. And therefore if your behavior is based off of it, like your behavior is morally neutral as well, which that was like a huge breakthrough for me because I was like, yes, okay, like all of these kids who are running out of buildings and, you know, stripping off their clothes and rocking and stimming, like they're just doing what their nervous system is asking them to do. And we do not need to extinguish these behaviors as they say in those systems. We need to like listen to these behaviors as communication and figure out what it means and how to like support this human.

So it's just rad because it takes all the blame and like right wrong out of behavior. Yes. And gives us tools to like figure out how to support our nervous system so that we can more often make choices, knowing that we're always going to react sometimes. And when we do react, we can like experience those reactions with grace instead of shame. Yes. Well, I like the moral neutrality of it because I genuinely believe like the moments I have felt like most at peace or at one with like my being, there is this kind of unconditional love, non-judgment energy that feels like the root of everything that we experienced.

Just my perception. That is not going. Yeah, right. I mean, it's kind of a thing, but basically that is not going to support a system that is based on right and wrong. Do you know what I mean? It doesn't make sense. And it's one of the reasons that I think I have a lot of trouble with the systems that exist around psychiatric health and like all the things because it's like it assumes there is a right way to be. And like, of course, we don't want people like screaming and not being able to like interact with anyone around them and clearly suffering like we're not saying there should be so no formal diagnosis in some way, but trying to say like we need to correct that because this is wrong behavior rather than examining like that's a symptom of something that else that's going on.

And then once you identify what else may be going on, well, then maybe you can actually try to deal with that in a constructive way. And it's just like that that's actually evolving us as a species, right? Because we're clearly dealing with, especially when it comes like the study I was referencing earlier, it was based on autism, right? And it was it's clear there's something going on with a lot of people in the world related to autism spectrum. Like it is it is very, very obvious. My previous guest, Tal Lynn, a great author was like, you know, I'm autistic, like I didn't even realize it until I published these works and everyone was calling me autistic.

This is insane, I then had a self reflect on it and it's my sister is very much like, like clearly in this world, I kind of like missed all of this stuff. But then when I read and find out more about it, I'm like, holy shit, like, I think these are things that I may have symptoms of not that I would consider myself autistic per se, but like I got sensory overload today. I was reading books at my, my four year olds daycare kind of program and I was reading like one of the chapters in frog and toad, but there was like three other conversations going on between adults. Yeah. And you couldn't do it.

Yeah. And I was, I was doing it, but I was like, so like my, my levels of stress of course, all like I could feel them rising. I'm reading books to kids. So I can't be like, but like I could feel myself getting stressed out and like, you know, I never really noticed this before. And it is something I personally think that I've used cannabis for most of my adult life, because it does kind of, it leads me a lot, it gives me a vehicle for processing it. But yeah, tell me more about like the polyvagal system and just like what that's kind of based on, because we mentioned fight or flight or like resting digesting, like we clearly know there are other states of consciousness that exist in between those.

What about the polyvagal theory? Can you share with me? Yeah. Let's do it. So right before we jump into that, I just want to touch back on when you were talking about diagnoses, like in my experience of studying the polyvagal theory, polyvagal can identify anything in the DSM as pretty much DSM being that diagnostic manual, where all these diagnoses are listed and described. Like all of those are nervous system responses, like pretty much end of story. This is not, you know, Steven Portis who came up with a polyvagal theory doesn't say this, but my interpretation is that any behavioral pattern is like can be traced back just to a nervous system response, because you start to read those characteristics and you just see them as like different iterations of how the vagus nerve is trying to keep you in like biological survival, which is why I love this so much because it takes all of the stigma, all of the blame, all of the like, you're stuck in this diagnosis out of the picture, and it says you can learn skills to support yourself.

You may always have these characteristics, but you can support yourself within those characteristics, and that is so liberating to me as a person who has received almost every diagnosis over the years, and then I finally feel like I'm just like, I just am a person who is expressing that life is really weird. Yeah, you know, I've collected a few diagnoses on my journey as well, and it's true, it's like sometimes you're just not processing things like people around you, and sometimes you do get the benefit of connecting with people who do process things, like, and you realize, oh, it's not just me, that's kind of nice, that's always a big revelatory part of the process.

Yeah, I mean, I love that it can actually like, when you can take the judgment of yourself away for like, why you are the way you are, that's a powerful moment, and I like that this really addresses this, but you're also clearly, you know, as you're alluding to your, you come came from kind of like a diagnostic clinical through the government and public school system, but you're clearly woo, you alluded to like 50/50 gene keys, like, I mean, Jessica connected me, I mean, I don't know anyone who's not woo, she connects me with ever. So, I mean, how do you integrate and synthesize them? I see the path, but I want to hear from like your perspective how it's kind of like fit in.

Yeah, I love how actually it seamless it is, because Polyvagal doesn't, like, it's completely just biological science, but it doesn't have anything that contradicts with a non-physical or paranormal lens. So it's a very lovely fit, I think, personally, as yes, an entirely woo person, like I have a regular ET who's like my partner on another planet where I am with them and like, I'm here as a part of genetic mutation experiment, like all that, I can go into all that, right? I love it. I love it. Yeah, so I'm like very both sides of the fence, and I think that's like part of maybe why I'm here on this planet in this version of me, because like I identify as non-binary, I'm queer, trans, like queer, spirituality, queer, like, Polyvagal, like I'm queer, anything that it is, because I just am like, yeah, none of the duality makes sense.

So totally. Polyvagal is based off of this nerve that we have called the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve runs from our brainstem down both sides of the, under the ears, if we were on video, I could show you, it comes around from the back of your brainstem down under both sides of the ears, down both sides of the throat, innervates in with the auditory canal. So hearing is how we're accessing it with the SSP, which is a listening program. It comes down and innervates with the throat, which is why vocalization is used as a vagus nerve stimulator, toner through all ancient cultures through like chanting, singing, breath work, you know, all of that comes down both sides of throat, branches out to the lungs, connects in with the heart, because it modulates breath rate and heart rate.

It comes down and connects in with all of the internal organs, including the reproductive organs. And then it ramps all in and around the intestines and ends at the bottom of the small intestine. So it is also referred to as the autonomic nervous system, meaning that all of the automatic functions, which are another word for that is autonomic, all of those functions that keep you alive day to day in a physiological sense are happening when the vagus nerve has determined that it's safe enough for them to happen. And where polyvagal comes in is it helps us to understand that in its design, it was made so that we would be able to navigate threats in real time, process those threats through using nervous system exercises, and then move on with our day, then get a good night's rest and do all of our like repair of all of these physiological functions and then start again the next day.

That's how animals use the vagus nerve, right? Yeah. But because of especially post agricultural society, you know, industrial revolution kind of time period. So when we switched to the rhythm of production rather than the rhythm of nature, we started getting out of sync with our nervous system because the vagus nerve in a system that responds to nature, you can see a threat, okay? An animal comes to get you, an earthquake happens, a volcano erupts, okay? You're going to naturally be able to reach for some of these exercises that are programmed to process through the chemicals that rise up in your body to support you in the fight fight or freeze.

So when you see the threat, your system, your vagus nerve is going to send out those chemicals and say, okay, given all of this information, we are going to suggest that you run, okay? So we're going to give you adrenaline and cortisol. We're going to shorten your breath rate. We're going to give you diarrhea and make you pee right away so you can get lightened up so you can be faster. We're going to increase your heart rate and you're going to move, move, move, move, really fast and you're going to process through these chemicals through the movement and then the sweating and the water is going to facilitate the release of the cortisol in that adrenaline, okay?

So it's like a perfect recipe for keeping yourself alive and processing out all the pretty toxic chemicals that it took to trigger this reaction to make you stronger and faster than you usually would be, okay? Right, right. Now, take that same process and put it into our present day society where we're responding to production rather than to nature and I get an email from my boss that says your report is wrong and you made an error in it. And I all of a sudden am scared again. My nervous system just goes, oh, we might die because for me losing my job might mean that I can't provide for my kid, which then would mean that I'm a terrible person and we're going to end up homeless or whatever.

So my nervous system is like, oh, we might die, okay? And it releases the same chemicals because it's like, yeah, you should run away from that, right? So it releases the same chemicals and then I sit there and I respond to the email and I drink another cup of coffee and I say mean things to the boss or I say mean things to myself and I just don't process out any of these chemicals. And so now I'm having a build up and now my biggest nerve is like, oh, you're not going to support us, you're not going to do the process. All right. I don't know what that means, but maybe that means after 10, 15, 25 years of this, you know, like using your example from this morning, you sat there and you said I couldn't yell at them because I'm in a preschool room.

But actually what you didn't realize was that you do have the right to pause the book and say, hey, friends, I'm going to complete the book in one moment and walk over to the adults and saying, hey, I have a hard time concentrating when I have other conversations going on around me. Would you all mind pausing your conversation or taking it elsewhere so that I could finish this story with the kids? And if not, no worries. Is there someone else who might be able to continue the story because I'm not able to. Yeah, if you had been able to do that, your nervous system would have been like, thank you, I respect you and I appreciate you, right?

Because we have practiced like denying our nervous system over and over and over again. We've been trained into that, right? Do you have to go to the bathroom? Hold it. Are you hungry? It's not lunchtime. Do you want to go to sleep? You're it's not, you know, you stay up. Do you like not want to take a nap too bad you have to, right? Like we've been trained to deny this system. And so what happens over time is we get what's called a neuroceptive mismatch, meaning we're no longer able to accurately interpret the threat or the safety. We are either under defensive or over defensive. Most of us are a mix of under and over defensive.

So under defensive looks like I sit there and read the book, even though my brain is going, I cannot, I cannot, I'm freaking out, right? Under defensive means I drink caffeine, even though it makes me feel sick. Under defensive means I stay in a relationship, even though the person keeps telling me that I'm a loser, right? Over defensive means I'm hyper aware of everything all of the time. And I have a huge startle response. And I think every time I like open my phone that somebody hates me and doesn't love me anymore, right? So most of us are bouncing between those two and in Polyvagal, those two response areas are sympathetic, which is like a mobilized or like a gas pedal, fight flight, and then dorsal, which is the freeze or the fawn, shut down, brake pedal.

And then Polyvagal introduces this third thing, which is called ventral. And it's like newer on the block, evolutionarily speaking. It's only 200 million years old, whereas dorsal and sympathetic are 400 million years old. And so most of us haven't integrated ventral. Ventral allows us to use sympathetic and dorsal like very effectively. It also allows us to connect with other mammals. So it does all the like problem solving cooperation, perspective taking, compassion, empathy. It does all that in this beautiful way. And it makes it so you don't have to just be on this endless cycle between fight flight or freeze fawn.

And it is something that can be learned in practice. So that's pretty good. That's the last part. I think is crucial there. Yeah, I mean, it's like, if it can be learned in practice, that's the kind of stuff that I like because otherwise it's just like, well, it's great that it's there. Do any other mammals have that third ventral system or is it just humans? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I want to double check that information, but I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure it's a mammal thing because the co-regulation has to do with any of the species that are actually like so it's differentiation between reptiles and mammals.

So if you think about like primates, they can like coordinate on food gathering and like a home building and like like even, you know, like lions coordinate with each other to like protect each other or like adopt each other's babies if they need to those kind of things. So that's co-regulation and like reptiles, it's like you're born and it's like peace out like by, you know, it's like we're not a team. No, we're on our own now. We're not hanging out. We're just going to be cold blooded. Yeah. Sorry. And like, you know, it's no shade to the reptiles because they just don't have that part of their like, yeah, system developed and like what that's the piece where we can really look at ourselves and say like, if I've been a person who's like totally treated people like shit or totally treated myself like shit, I can, I can recognize that like, it's not because I was being an asshole.

It's because I was operating in my dorsal or sympathetic where I have only the skills of an alligator. Yeah, this, the flight or fight response thing and nervous system like dysregulation has been making a lot of sense to me, especially over the past few years. And I don't think it's unique. I think, you know, things like the pandemic, which like massively altered social interaction and the rise of, you know, clearly at times, if not often intrusive, you know, technology and devices that we're ill prepared to cope with. I do feel like a lot of us get stuck in these states and then we will look for some type of numbing aids as well, right?

Whether that's our phone scrolling, whether it's a substance, whether it's, you know, gambling or a relationship, I mean, it can be many things and they don't all have to be bad. Someone could pour their, you know, energy into exercise, but even that can become unhealthy at times. Food, all of these things exist out there. So I think this is, is very helpful or potentially helpful for a lot of people because even the strongest of us at times, like this, this world is so uncertain and kind of like, we're breaking apart and transitioning in such a rapid manner that even for the most woo of us, it's kind of like, holy shit, like we are really freefalled here.

So I mean, this is a piece that's so important is that many people come to this work thinking like, oh, you're going to turn me into Buddha and I'm just going to be like peaceful and one with everything. And I'm just going to like accept all things as for me. And that is not the point of this work. Like the point of this work is to say like you're a physical being on a planet with high levels of threat. And if you want to have this spiritual experience that you're looking for, you have to support yourself on a physical level. And even if you somehow got to create this magical reality where you no longer had any interpersonal conflict, any weather, any like car accidents or health related things, like if you somehow put escaped all of that, then fine, you don't need this.

But I'm not aware that anyone with any amount of money or any amount of manifestation skills is able to escape the physical reality right now. And so all of us who are in human bodies deserve access to this information and you don't have to have the SSP to have access to this information. Like this all you need to know is that you have a nervous system and that there are functions of the nervous system and there are four ways to support the nervous system. That's all you need to know and you're good to go. Yeah. And so like I want to talk about also the SSP just like technically too because this really piqued my interest.

Like I went to a music school, been an audio engineer for a long time. And so like I actually understand what they're talking about in terms of like, you know, getting the frequency to the human species frequencies and also the modulation from 50 was a 50 to 3,000 hertz or something like that. Like I actually understand what this stuff means and I could see just technically how that could be useful, right? The analogy that's used is kind of like a mother's lullaby, which you know, I've been around my own young children now going on, I guess the two year olds about to be three. So they're they're not super young.

But like for seven years now, I've been around my own young children and you do see what actually calms them down and helps regulate them just intuitively from like a maternal and a paternal sense. Like you can kind of get into it. So I, I'm very curious like you, you, your practitioner of this, you, how have you found that the actual kind of limiting of the frequencies, like what have you noticed when people are listening, what is the feedback from people we've worked with? Yeah, it's so fascinating and rad to watch because I experienced it myself. You know, I went through it twice and I could feel it in my body, but when you hear other people reflecting on it and you see the change in them week to week, it's just amazing.

So I usually end up with people like at least 15, you know, sometimes 30, 40 sessions going through the five hour playlist because we go through according to the person's nervous system response. And I see people come in, you know, they're, they've got complaints about just feeling like they're in, you know, constant disassociation, numbing like you were talking about earlier or they're in constant anxiety, panic, you know, freaking out all the time. And without fail, like, as we get into hour three, people start to be like, I don't know, like, I feel like I'm like noticing what's going on. And like, I'm remembering things more.

And like, I can tell when I'm hungry or when I'm thirsty. And like, I haven't gone to my break room, like I've eaten lunch in a closet for five years and like, I just went into the break room the other day and like started talking to someone. And it's like, what's happening is they're experiencing the present moment. And most of us have never done that. I realized, I mean, I had done it unintentionally in the past, but I realized there was, I think it was like a year or so ago, something like that did a whole episode on it because how profound it was for me, I was like, I don't think I've really, I think I've been avoiding the present moment as actively as possible unintentionally, but I've been doing it for a really long time.

And I was like, Oh, this is kind of a gateway towards that more kind of mystical or flowy part because that's those are the moments that I'm, I noticed, like when I am present, there's a degree of fearlessness, there's a degree of love and just like, it's there, but sometimes it's hard to find yourself into that state. But if you're thoroughly unfamiliar, what it's like, it's even harder. So if you have, if you're in a chronic defense state, you can't be in the present moment because your, your functions of your senses are being overridden by the nervous system to hyper attune to the perceived threat.

So that's sort of a jumble of words, but basically like, if I'm in a, if I think there's a threat, then my vision is going to be narrowed. So I can't take in my environment. My hearing, the bandwidth that I'm paying attention to is also going to be narrowed. So I'm going to tune out speech sound and I'm going to hyper attune to low frequencies, which are evolutionarily related to threats, so the pounding of hooves or thunder or awake or a growl, right? So my touch is going to be like affected by increased like sweat and temperature dysregulation. I'm going to not be able to taste or smell my food in the same way because my digestive system is going to shut down because that's not a priority when you're in a threat response.

So all of my senses, which are how we connect with the present moment are going to be altered by this, this nervous system threat response. So if somebody looks at me like they say, if you smile and look a dog in the eye, they're going to think that you're bearing your teeth because you're trying to show them that you're going to rip their throat out, right? Right. When I'm out in the world in a threat response, I'm going to see people as bearing their teeth. I'm going to hear people's tone differently. I'm going to interpret it as irritated or angry. This is why so many of us feel like we've been in such a mind fuck for our whole childhoods and early lives because we're like, I'm pretty sure everybody told me I was a piece of shit every day.

Like that's all that I heard. And it's like, yeah, I mean, it was also like you have the luxury now, I'm sure too, of being a parent. I just feel like the generational gaps in terms of parenting, especially for like boomers and the older generations, like some of them were really also just telling the kids that you're a piece of shit. So like there is that perpetuated us to like be in this threat response and that's all we could hear for the rest of our life, right? Because I don't know about you, like if someone's like, oh, you're a nice person, I'm like, oh, you think I suck? Like, I knew it, you know, and like I literally have a book where I write down like a journal where I write down when people say nice stuff to me because it takes me like a month to process it.

Like I have to read it and be like, are we sure? Like, I think, I don't know, maybe you should double check like because, you know, but but yeah, it's so the present moment thing connects us with mysticism in like the reverse way that people think, you know, a lot of people get to the mystical stuff through drugs or long meditation. But what do the Buddhists always say like chop wood carry like before enlightenment chop wood carry water after enlightenment chop wood carry water because the day to day is where the present moment is in those mundane like sensory pathway experiences. And then you like get to experience mystical in the day to day once you're really open to the day to day.

So it's it's the practical actually is the mystical, which is why I love this. Well, it's very interesting too, because defining kind of like it has been my experience that the gateway to the mystical is the present moment, it is like the ultimate hack. But finding a way into the present moment is I think something that a lot of people struggle with because like what you're saying is like people are are in flight or fight. It could just be like a pure base like like you said with the money stuff, right? Like people. Oh, well, if I don't make this amount of money or I affect my money this way, then my family is going to go broke and we're going to be homeless and I'm going to be a shitty person.

And like everyone probably thinks that like they're the only one thinking like that. Most people are thinking like that. That's what's insane. Even people with way more money than you would think would need to be thinking about that or thinking about that sometimes especially. And one thing that like really strikes me when you're talking about this the polyvagal system too is that like I think of like when animals go through like like let's say they were just like hunted by like a predator like a lion or something and they get away and they're fine and you know nothing actually happened. They do this thing where they kind of like shutter it out.

Yeah, they shake it out like that's them processing what just happened. If you think of all the times that you like get into like maybe you weren't hunted but maybe the psychological or social equivalent happened where you perceive some threat. You usually don't shake it off. So where do you think that's getting stored? That's right. You know ultimately it doesn't just dissipate into nothingness. Chronic pain, chronic illness, cancer. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So yeah the autoimmune stuff. Yeah. Let's really point out that the like coming back to how do we access this? How do we access ventral is we have to support that animal system in animal ways.

So we've got to pay attention to the present moment which is called mindfulness, right? That's the fancy word for just paying attention to what you're experiencing when you're experiencing it and movement. Those are the two things that you watch any dog or cat or squirrel or lizard and you're going to notice that they're paying attention to the present moment what they're experiencing when they're experiencing it and they're moving every day. So the simplest way that we can access this is to give ourselves half an hour of movement a day and half an hour of paying attention to the present moment.

And this is where it's so cool because this can be accessed by the most scientific materialist person and the most woo person. It works equally well for both. You know, anyone can take five minutes while they're doing the dishes and be like, oh, what does the water feel like on my hands? What does the soap smell like? What do I think of this plate? You know, like, isn't it nice that I had food? Like that can be done. It doesn't have to be meditation. It doesn't have to be Buddhism, you know, and then movement doesn't have to be exercise. It's actually better if it's not exercise because we all have lots of shit about exercise, you know.

So movement could be walking around your street and noticing five different colors or noticing, you know, go and find three different green plants and touch them and take a deep breath when you touch each one or put on one song and wiggle your body around until the song is done in whatever way you don't have to dance because a lot of people are like, I had to dance, you know, wiggle your body around. It can be I'm sitting in a chair and I'm going to twist my body one way and then I'm going to twist my body the other way and I'm going to take one deep breath. You know, it does not need to be complicated and it doesn't need to be for a long time. But over time, this will be like taking a multivitamin for your nervous system and you'll build up a resource or like a reservoir of resiliency so that the next time you get that email from your boss, you're like, okay, well, I can handle it, you know, or even if you're in a very stressful situation, like it was so cool. The other day at my kid's soccer game, my kid got really hurt by the other team who was being like scary aggressive, right? If the tension was so high, the parents were freaking out, the coaches were freaking out like they ended up having to forfeit the game because it was so scary. Oh my God, it was so intense. So my nervous system was in super duper flight fight, right? So I start running down towards the field. Now I've got the complication of co-parenting with an ex, right? Who manages. I also have that conversation. Yeah. Yes.

And it we have different perspectives on many things. So she started telling me her perspective, which included, don't go down there, don't say anything, calm down, right? And I was able to, in like, I was just like so proud of my nervous system, I turned around and I said, don't tell me what to do. I am processing really high emotions right now because I'm very scared because my child got hurt. And I said it just like that. And it was like, I didn't say you're a bad person. I didn't say, you know, go to hell. I just was able to say I'm having a flight fight response. And part of it is moving my body and asserting myself through a sort of communication. And yeah, it was phenomenal because it was like, I, I'm not looking to just sit there and be like, nothing's real. Like my child is not real in my childhood environment. And everything is perfect and namaste, you know, like, I'm not trying to be that. But I was able to be like, I'm upset because this is scary. And I was honest and I was clear and I was assertive and I set a boundary, you know, and it's like, that's, that's what this gives you the capability to do, not to just like be like, oh, like this is a video game and it doesn't really matter, you know, because that's some bullshit. No, no, well, it's it people will find that like viewing every single situation through that lens in real time is not really going to be practical. Most things like you can do it to a point, but especially when it involves like kids or like, you know, it's just like, it is very, very, very, like you're allowed to react to a situation like that. That's just like a very scary thing. I'm thinking of how I would react in that situation and probably wouldn't have been as cool and calm and collected. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's important to be able to kind of like express what you need to express and not have to shove it down. I think there's a freedom to that. And we really don't have a lot of frameworks for that right now. And it's like, it's, it's affecting people, it seems at large. I know a lot of people have difficulty kind of like navigating all aspects of life gracefully.

And I do think if you can, you know, you're it doesn't mean again, you're going to only experience positive things. What's really interesting to me about this too, is like, I would almost say that like being able to be present in the sense that you're mentioning or speaking about is like a prerequisite for actually like manifestation. I agree. That is from that is the place where you actually are getting to kind of like, insept yourself or whatever or make it like intentional manifestation, because we're all manifesting, we're all manifesting all the time. But let's say you're feeling, let's say like you have your, you're a lot of people are like this mice. I've been like this plenty of times, right? And I'm sure I unfortunately probably won't be the end of it. But you know how this stuff works.

You know that you're manifesting all the time, but then you notice you're also feeling like shit or you're demotivated or your nervous system is this totally out of whack, right? And you're just in Perma flight or fight. That's almost more debilitating, right? It's like, I know I'm doing this to myself. Why am I creating this reality? So that's when you actually like have to find whatever modality, whatever tool is going to potentially give you a path to presence. And then we usually just kind of, you know, find that it's a combination of things too. Like this is that's maybe what the path is actually about is figuring out the ways that work effectively to find that moment over and over again, which is what all mistakes throughout all time have basically been saying. So it's not like a massive surprise.

But still, you need to be kind of doled out the path for yourself because it is like it is. We're facing such novel times as human beings right now that it's like, it's hard to fully appreciate because we're like in it. But like society has moved just so incredibly fast since the time you were mentioned, the Industrial Revolution, right? It's just been like, it's hard to comprehend just kind of how parabolic things have gotten. And so anything that can help kind of regulate us is I'm all for. Yeah. And just making you feel like you have choice because like you said, for those people who really want to be doing the intentional manifesting, and they can feel like really ashamed, like I'm doing it wrong. Or I can't like I can't get myself to do it. And they are so external reality focused that exactly that it can feel very debilitating. And when we realize that it's all about the internal reality, then you get to connect in with the maturity to be able to accept all external circumstances and surrender the need to control the external circumstances. And then all of a sudden manifestation is not done from this like forcing grabbing needing desperation. Yes. It's done from this like, all of it is something that I trust that I can move through because it's not just like me and the external circumstances. There's like a whole program running here. And like, I can trust that when something that quote unquote bad happens, that it's still something that can support me and that I can learn from and that I can find contentment. And then the ironic thing is that the more you are content and no, require external like, good things, good things fucking happen, right? It's one of the most annoying aspects of how reality seems to function. But yes, that is what happened. Yeah, I mean, it's just like, that is the paradox of this. You can't force or willpower or think yourself into it because it is at the end of the day, like really related to how we're feeling. And so it sounds like to me that SSP is kind of a way to modulate our ability to process stimuli and energy, which will have a positive influence if you know, practice on being able to do it consciously and with intention. And that's a really powerful thing. Because if you just can't even get to the point where that's even halfway felt, let alone believed or known, good luck. This is all just going to sound like gibberish. Yeah, that's what I want to tell people is like, that's why you went to therapy for 20 years and didn't make any progress is because you literally can't with the tools of an alligator, you cannot do shadow work. Okay. You can't like come to radical acceptance when you're in your defense state. There's just you literally are blocked by something called the amygdala, the amygdala like shuts access to the frontal lobe where executive functioning and like problem solving and compassion empathy and multiple perspectives. All of that takes place in the frontal lobe and the amygdala cuts you off from there for your survival. When you're in your low brain, doing fight fight freeze on, it makes you go directly to the motor cortex. Whereas when you're feeling safe, you get information from your senses, it goes into your low brain or your hind brain. Some people call it. And the nervous system decides if there's a threat, it says, okay, no threat, it sends you to your frontal lobe and your frontal lobe's like, let's make a great decision here. And then you go to your motor cortex and do your great decision. When you're blocked by the amygdala, there's nothing that you can do other than support your nervous system with like the shaking that the little animal does to come back and process it out and come back to that safety. So there's like four ways to do that for your amygdala. And they're all embedded in every wisdom tradition and indigenous tradition. It's just breathing movement, vocalization and mindfulness. That's it. And so the SSP is like a really fancy cool tool that can help you get there passively when you have a lot of blocks up. Because you don't have to do the SSP like the SSP does you, it just goes in passively. So it can give people a really cool jumpstart. But I want everybody to know that you can access this without the SSP. It takes more commitment and diligent and is easier done with like a coach or someone who's like really going to help you get on track with that. But you can you can do it without the SSP. And even if you do it with the SSP, the SSP is just a jumpstart. It's like going to a 30 day boot camp or something like, yeah, are you going to be in more shape after it? Sure. But if you don't continue it for the rest of your life, like it's not going to matter. So the SSP is how to start like a lifestyle of taking care of your nervous system.

Right. It can jumpstart you into behaviors that you can choose to continue with or not. Yeah, no, I really like that. I mean, what I was thinking of too is I was like, I got to get in and start filtering out some music because as I understand it, the SSP basically like it's playlists, right? It's like songs that are played for it. It would be super cool if people could kind of like pre-select their playlists and get certain criteria for it and then run it through like an SSP filter, which I'm not. I just think that it's like probably not as crazy hard as it sounds because like if you understand audio stuff, it's like, it's kind of cool to be able to allow that and just like for certain people, especially trying to evoke certain states because, you know, there's a lot of social situations and I do think music has such a powerful thing. And for people who don't know what like something limited to like the vocal spectrum, it's not crazy. It's not like you're hearing some wildly augmented sounds like regular music.

Yeah, but it is cutting off these especially higher frequencies, which are usually present and, you know, a certain level of the lower ones to 50 Hertz. It's pretty cool. I'm really like it's piquing my interest in a way that something hasn't in a long time. So like, I can't believe we've already spoken for like an hour. I wanted to like, okay, let me ask this question and then I want to talk a little bit about 50/15 keys here too, just because like I want to understand that better. But let's say people are interested in SSP. I know you're a practitioner, like what's the easiest way for people to learn, experience book?

Like, how do they do that? To learn about what the SSP is? Yeah, and potentially do it as well. Like, yeah, they're like, yeah, with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can connect with me on my website, which is an experiencer.com, and you can just book a call with me and we can see if it's a good fit. The SSP is not a good fit for everyone. There's certain things in your medical history that might make it not a supportive option. And if that's the case, then we can talk through. And I, because of that, I do want to mention that I love that you're interested in figuring out the filtration and all that. But the reason why it is like a certified provider that gives it that does it with you is because it is a powerful physiological intervention. And we don't want to just put this filtered music on in a room full of people who are like, have all their personal trauma that's going to get kicked up. Like, my job as a provider is that I've been trained to watch the physiological responses so that I don't send somebody into a catatonic state or into a full panic attack, because that is what the SSP has the potential to do. The only time in all of their research that someone has gone into a psychosis as a result of listening is when they were doing it alone. So having someone who is a trained provider with you monitoring your physiological response is like really important. Well, we'll develop the SSP filter for practitioners only. There you go. There you go. The proprietary thing for them. You know, we can be like, you could create your own version of SSP and then train providers in that, you know, and maybe there is a way to make it more accessible. And I love that idea. But like, I've actually had quite a few like music engineer people who I think are connected to just like maybe through Mark or what have you who are like, I could do this. Like, why is it so expensive?

I'll just do it for myself and listen to it. And I'm like, yeah, but it's a little Yeah, no, it's a it's a real thing. And like also, as you mentioned before, you're you're walking people walking people through this experience and having them know like responses that you can as someone who's gone through this process and like experienced it with other people. You know what to kind of look for. It's the same reason that people sign up for terror readings, astrology readings, coaching sessions, whatever it is. Like, that's there's a service being provided there that you shouldn't just take lightly. I wasn't yeah, thinking to filter and listen to alone, but I'm glad you pointed that out. But it just the idea of like people being able to select potentially their own playlist. I was like, that would be that's a great idea. Because everyone like pretty much universally thinks the playlists are not great. There's there's four of them. And it's like clear that like some speech sound scientists did this and they were not musicians, right? They're like cover bands of like five hundred twenty five thousand six hundred and then you know, it's like, no, no, no, good try. It's like a little awkward. The music side of it. So they'd probably love to have a real music person help them out.

It's so funny, but that also is just proof that it works because if it's also like bad annoying music and it's still doing so, you know, there's something that's maybe why they selected just like baseline, not good. That's so funny. Awesome. I'll have links also for people who are interested in this. Can we talk a little bit about 50/50 Jean Key stuff? Like I, I have no very little bit about it, but Jessa mentions it from time to time and I see it pop up on her patreon. Like what is the 50/50 Jean Key stuff? What's going on? What are we looking out for? Yeah. So I also don't know a ton. I've learned like most of what I've learned from Jessa and then like glancing a bit at the Jean Key's website, which I will say Richard Rudd is the Jean Key's guy and he has been very generous on his website.

There are all of the like written material from the book about all of the Jean Keys and then audio recordings of him reading them are all available for free on his website and I really recommend people go and check it out. It's so much material and it's so complex and so dense. It's like a whole world similar to if you try to just like be like, oh, what is Reality Transurfing? It's like, uh, or like what's the Bible about? You know, it's like, um, but it's the 50/50 Jean Key has something to do with like, you know, the Jean Keys are personal and they're collective. So the 50/50 Jean Key has something to do with the transition that we're going through now that like 20/27 thing that people talk about from human design and like crossing over out of the external authority and into having more of an internal authority. And what I love about the 50/50 Jean Key is that there's a lot of crossover with the nervous system. So it specifically addresses how we're coming from the more of a fear based hind brain or that lower brain where we process, you know, whether we have a threat or not. We're shifting from being primarily oriented to that, um, into being more oriented on unconditional love. So we're moving out of judgment and victimhood and towards like creative, um, capacity that requires a foundation of like, we're all good. Right.

So if you, like, if you have someone who can be wrong, then there can, there's always going to be a victim and a perpetrator and a savior that those two concepts like right wrong go together with victimhood. And so as we let go of the, um, relying primarily on that system of like threat versus safety, good versus bad, right versus wrong, our nervous system is going to need to, um, do less in terms of focusing so much on survival based on like threat versus safety. And that's going to affect the actual physiology of both our nervous system and our digestive system and like many bodily functions. And this part I've been geeking out on lately that like, um, salt is going to end up being like, rather for history, we use salt as a purification process. Yeah. And the 50/15 key is working with, I'm going to forget what the, I think it's the 64, um, which is a water related, um, I might be getting this part wrong, but the salt is working with the water right now and the nervous system because it's the salt connects to the chemicals that are released when we experience threat and it carries it out via water via our sweat and our tears and our peat. Yeah. Yeah. So when we're scared or when we're upset, um, we like, like, if you ever heard of anxious peeing, that's a fight flight response because you're trying to like, like load and you're sweating more, um, to lighten your load and you're crying when you're upset and it's gathering up that quarter song to adrenaline and all those other chemicals that are a part of the threat response. And it's, um, taking them out of your body.

And as we get closer to this change, we're going to need less, like over time, we're going to need less salt. And he talked about how kids are going to be born, like allergic to meat and stuff because like meat has been preferred, preserved via salt for so much of history. And that was like served a function to help us process these fear responses. And so in the right now time period, that's why all the processed food has come in to our society because we need these really high levels of salt because we're having such high levels of victimization. And as we like rev up for that, we're going to be craving more processed foods, which is so funny because I've been like a super clean eater forever and vegan forever. And over the past six months, I've been like, I'm going to eat a bag of burritos and I have no idea why. And I'm like, okay, you know, it's a speaking of eating a bag of burritos. I had a bat. So my kid wanted Cheetos for some reason. I was like, I'm not getting you cheap. So I'm not getting you cheetos. But he broke me down. And I was like, I'll get you a bag of Cheetos. I gave him Cheetos. And then I ate the rest of the Cheetos. And I used to like Cheetos as a kid. I don't would never get Cheetos on my own. I'm like, what is going on?

That's 2000% how it happened for me too. Because my kid was like, I need Doritos. And I was like, we're not we're not a Dorito family. You know, and it's yeah, totally. And then I'm like, all right. Well, like, I'm buying like, now he was like, went to his other moms and the half bag of Doritos is there. And I was like, apparently I'm eating this half bag of Doritos and not to buy him more because I ate his Doritos. Yeah, it's wild. That's exactly. We need to talk. Yeah, I mean, I, we do, we do, that's really fucking amazing. Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate. I know we have like a bunch of mercury scheduling and even before that, like I was sick and stuff. I really, I know people are going to love this one. And I we should do something again, maybe for the Patreon or something. Because you're you're pretty awesome.

You too. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. Yeah. Awesome. Oh, no, I almost forgot my questions. What's your favorite color? Rainbow. Cool. What's your favorite number five? What's your favorite animal elephant? Cool. What is a practical tip that you can share with people listening that you think you would like to share that has helped you in your life. Yeah, you can add rocking and humming into your day to day and it feels really good and it'll support your nervous system. Just rock side to side whenever you think of it and hum like you're sort of rocking a little baby. I love this. That's amazing. That's one of the better ones I've ever heard. Thank you.

This has been great. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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