Student vs Teacher with Yung Pueblo

[Music] [Music] [Music] Welcome to synchronicity. My guest this week is Diego Rivera, you know him as young Pueblo. He is an Instagram poet writer. I mean I say Instagram I lead with Instagram because that's how I found out about him and that's where he has a large audience but he's really just a writer and a poet and someone who uses words wisely to affect positive change. That's a simple way of saying that. I've had him one before. He's great. He wrote a book called In Word. Go check that out at ideally your local bookstores, Barnes and Nobles even just any any place with physical books but of course it's available everywhere and you can get that way. Really highly recommend it. It's a very kind of centering tool that if you kind of come to do some centering is a good thing to have. We talk about a lot of stuff in this episode. I say that every how can you not talk about a lot of stuff in an hour but you know especially with me I'm trying to jam pack and topics into that time so I really do cover a lot of ground but one of the probably most important aspects of what we spoke about is this idea of at what point do you say I am a teacher? I am someone who has accumulated knowledge or wisdom and now I will bestow that wisdom upon other people or you know have some either financial component of saying hey I created a course or going to a retreat or something like that. Where is that line? How does it work? How should it work? How does it actually work? And I always think about this issue. I mean how can you not like I think just even my you know beginning for a raise into trying to figure out how to monetize podcasts and the network and all of these things from from multiple different angles for going on to use you know five or six years it really you think about these things so where's the line and Diego had a wonderful kind of take on this which I think is the hallmark of people who really you know do do these long meditation retreats these 30-day Goenka style of a vipashina retreats. He had a really good saying about this which is you know I am not a teacher I am very careful that when someone asked me excuse me to go lead a meditation course that I say no I don't I'm not qualified to do that and this is someone truthfully who's probably more qualified than most people if he wanted to do that but he recognizes that there is a line there that as long as he views himself still as a student and acts like a student he is kind of like a sponge soaking up and having a perspective that he finds useful for his kind of day-to-day as he calls it how to be less miserable on a day-to-day basis so that's really crucial and important because I think what happens is is a lot of times and I always say it's like there's some meditation but in both of those modalities if you have a really profound experience it could be anything right it could be your love for the first time whatever it is romantic love whatever it sticks with you and kind of alters your consciousness in such a profound way that you sometimes have the desire to make that everything you do right whether if you're gonna now be a meditator now you're a vegan now you're a paleo now you're exercising all you get really into these things you want to become like an evangelist for this right like you're the evangelical whatever it is you're doing vegan meditator mushroom taker and some people even take it a step further and kind of weave in you know oh I can also make money from doing this so you know I'll brand up a kind of niche in the consciousness marketplace or I'll be a meditator person or we'll have retreat centers or whatever it is there's a tendency to want to do that so whoops I hear my music coming in I'm gonna mute that you can't hear that I can hear it coming in so that's a very interesting line I think that everyone has to kind of think about even if you're not thinking of starting a business but like how much do you want to make this your life or a part of your life what's the intention and desire below that drive in kind of that desire to make this a broader part of your life or make money with it or from it or be a thought leader and I think this is important because it seems to me and I reference it a little bit in this episode but this happens far too often in communities spiritual psychedelic far too often any introspective kind of consciousness study paranormal stuff is there can be a lot of kind of just scammy bullshitty stuff and shady and unsavory characters not to just say like these bad people but they're not maybe in it for the same reasons that a lot of other people are in it and this is one of the perils of trying to organize is that you can really run into this friction and infrastructure as Diego puts it in the episode these kind of frictiony balls of you know chaos they you know that's that's how we can go into any relationship if we choose to if we're just operating from our ego standpoint and often that's pretty much what we do and it's understandable especially in like the business world right and making money like that's how a lot of people operate so truthfully rather than me rambling on about all of this the grander point is that I think that line is very interesting the teacher verse student the softest first sock-cratic type of mentality I think it's very interesting stuff that's all that's all I want to say you also hear from Diego in this episode just how grounded and centered and honest he is I think transparency is really important with anything you're doing that's why I try to wing it I don't try to I wing almost every intro and outro I don't have notes I just try to remember and recollect you know recollect what's going to recollect recollect right collect we'll go with that you know parts of the conversation that I thought were personally impactful just because like you know if you're if there's an aspect of winging it which is you can say oh you're unprepared you're not really doing any work on it but I think that you're operating kind of the edge of this wave the crest of this wave where you know if you're bullshitting that's gonna immediately become clearer and if you're not bullshitting maybe there's that's also gonna become clear maybe it's not always but I think that's important that's why I try to operate from that space which also can make it more difficult to kind of center a brand or something around that so again these are questions that I personally think about that I think are interesting I look at other people and think these things are interesting so this is officially super ramble weed is good Cuomo is New York is a little part of my transgressor you can go ahead to the episode it'll probably be like 10 minutes or 12 minutes 15 minutes or something you don't have to listen to me I'm gonna talk about weed for a little bit so bear with me uh Cuomo this guy this guy is not my kind of guy but what is he doing there New York is basically introducing legislation to legalize recreational marijuana which is great know who no one's gonna be that upset about that but the way they're going about it is so New York it's ridiculous it's a graciously high taxes at every step of the process of growing distributing consuming it's ridiculous and it's like really high taxes they have a variable tax rate for it's gonna be higher for a flower material like weed that you got buy and smoke as opposed to trim which is very interesting very interesting any can of biz people and I'm super serious about this this is not some pipe dream pun intended this is really isn't hit me up Noah at sink podcast calm I am kind of folding people in to this a think tank about how to do some cool things related to cannabis in New York and hopefully broader nationally and internationally you know the future years but starting where I live I have people interested in this like only only really if you have like some you feel you can genuinely offer something I'm serious about this anyway the other thing they're doing is there's no seed to sale so there's no direct you can't grow a plant process it you know turn it into an edible and then sell it to a consumer which is good and bad the good is is that medical companies like they have in other states they'll go in get the foot in the door established that they're credible set up regulatory things that are medically you know stringent and then they'll go in and just flood the market once it's you know recreationally legal with their product and basically monopoly monopolize and corporatize the entire sector which is shitty and so they're upset about it which is good that means they're doing something good if the big medical companies who came thought they were going to be the frontrunners which is often not minority and women and other people who have no not large sums of money you can't get into that that's good that they're complaining the bad part of it is is that we're kind of separating all of these different parts like and they're not letting people grow which is obvious this my biggest great they're not letting people say hey you know what I want to grow a few plants because I don't it's a plant and I can grow it and I would like just like a wooded tomato I don't want to be forced to have to go get the tomato in a grocery store if it's not as good as the one I can grow right that's super important so I don't know how this is all going to pan out that's what I'm saying but it does look like New York is going to be legalized at some point in 2019 I imagine there's going to be kind of a purposeful you know purposely set up long discussion about some of the finer points that they've overlooked in the plan but it's pretty cool and we're definitely moving into some interesting times and looking the new about to be appointed Attorney General William Barr is basically said listen we're not gonna go in a fuck with states where weed is legal we're not gonna fuck with those businesses but he's also like we should totally oppose it nationally because it's a bad scourge so you went some you listen but anyway I don't know how I got on weed oh yeah I do because I've been rambling weeds good that's it let's get to the episode here it is without further ado Diego Rivera aka sorry well no need to apologize at all it's it's a noon on a Monday so no no more needs to be said how you been man I've been pretty good I'm kind of running around trying to get everything ready I'm about to go away to meditate for a month so where I just I'm gonna go up to Western Mass I'm I'm no no at I don't go and go retreat oh cool very cool how many how long are you doing it for 30 days oh silent yep it's going to yeah oh boy man I mean I never I never really true I forget like intermitt like why you're so smart and awesome and then I'm like okay does these repeats for real like he actually goes and sits which I mean it sounds crazy to say that but like dude like how many meditation teachers are there who you know did one retreat or one thing and now they're all of a sudden an expert like I will say for most of the people I've come across who are successful kind of writing or speaking about this stuff they really do make it a priority to build it into their lives so you know yeah I feel like yeah I feel like the writing is and I'm speaking is almost like secondary yeah so what I'm doing you know cuz I mean if it was really up to me man like I just be meditating I'd be doing this all the time and that's refreshing to hear it's refreshing to hear it's you know it's not necessary you ready to get started by the way we cooled stuff yeah yeah I was just gonna ask about like how you how your wife and child are doing oh yeah man they're they're doing great we have another boy coming in the summer to yeah man credible man yeah we're pretty excited it's you know it was it was planned it wasn't like an accident so wasn't like whoops the next one might be a whoops if there's the next one so let's see but yeah man don't let anyone tell you smoke and weed makes you infertile because it doesn't think it makes it easier so yeah yeah man everything is really good the family is great things are wonderful in here upstate and yeah pretty pretty good can't complain yeah that's wonderful it's really good to hear yeah man so my mom is calling me right on cue to find that she never she never really understands when I say I'm recording a podcast that it means I'm actually recording a podcast yeah man so yeah let's just get started I mean I figured the reason I asked what I did is because what we're talking about is really has really and continues to be at the forefront of my consciousness and just kind of this nexus of talking and speaking about in your particular case the benefits of going inward and meditation and kind of the internal practices that you've learned but in any realm of consciousness like a delic so any of these things that people use to kind of get in tune with themselves any modality and how kind of the intersection of that and business creating a living creating a sustainable living kind of can get inflated very quickly and a lot of people both large and small known and unknown and what you were talking about which I was commending and just it really you know brings the heart for the people I know who've been doing this you know consistently for decades even is the you were saying you know if it was up to you this is you just be going on these silent retreats all the time it's like your preferred thing to do and the other stuff the speaking and the writing is kind of secondary which I think is really like a very awesome approach to this which also you know leads as I'm sure you know to success you know outwardly right right right yeah I think I mean I guess we should are you recording already yeah it records from when I pick up so I can edit whenever yeah cool yeah I am I know that you know I just I feel like I learned so much through meditating that it it drives my curiosity you know and it's sort of get it's the thing that gets me most excited you know I love to learn and I love to just be less miserable I feel like that's what I get from meditating but but at the same time you know like I really do love what I do and I want to be like an effective individual that really gives back to people and supports people you know whatever path it is that they're walking so to make things that you know people can actually think about that can get them to know themselves a little better I think you know I'm really lucky and like fortunate to be able to you know do that for a living but yeah in a big way I feel like I think meditating really comes first for me that's it's just like it's a very important thing that I really like it was saying I think it gets lost a lot because the things that can come with constant practice especially with meditation can be kind of a right a clarity that can help in many aspects of life one of those is kind of effectively being able to communicate the things that you've learned which is incredibly important skill especially for something that you described is actually makes you less miserable in your case just to be like draw a clear line in the sand here you're I think the reason that I got tuned into you initially and kind of resonated what you were doing is because it was clear to me there was something underpinning this that really see it was authentic it was kind of a visceral feeling of this is a real thing and in this day and age as I'm sure you're aware many of these people are your outward competitors a lot of people kind of put on the crown of being a meditation expert or being a whatever type of expert it is related to consciousness or spirituality and sometimes it's totally valid and I love your name young quite well because what it essentially gets to young people is that it's okay to be young and have an authentic resonant and wise voice there are older people it's not an age thing but to be able to allow for these new voices to rise but at the same time making sure that that intention that kind of real practical importance for whatever those people are speaking about is actually there is something that I think it's lost in this day and age more and more at least from my genuine experience and I know we spoke about this a little bit last time with many age and Sharon Salzburg but it seems to be a very prominent recurring theme at least in my field of consciousness yeah I feel like I'm in a place where I really am enjoying being a student you know I don't I don't want to call myself an expert in anything I just feel like I'm learning and sharing but it's interesting because even in the name young people like when you dig deep to it I feel like I was literally just you know walking down the street earlier coming back from the gym and it hit me you know that it the name young people is really just a commentary on how collectively we're all very young we take all of humanity you know we're to think that okay there are people who are older and wiser and then there are people who are younger and have more to learn when you really sort of group us as one entity we're very very young so it's funny because in a way you know I feel like yeah the name is not it doesn't even really describe me it's more so what the purpose of the project is you know to like write these books under this name so that we can all hopefully grow up a little bit so that we can make make a better world yeah yeah and I also think about kind of knowing your background is coming from the activism world too which is kind of fraught with some of the dynamics that I have noticed in the spiritual world as well right people talking about these things and I'm curious I mean what have you I'm sure this has come up during your meditations having worked in those fields but it seems to me that the level kind of organizational conflict that can happen with really I'm listening now to this Frederick Douglas biography that came out last year it's fantastic and you realize very quickly that abolitionist is a very broad and blanket term of which there are many different subgroups when this was actually happening they were trying to get rid of slavery and they were often in conflict with each other and it's not that they were bad people necessarily or you know less ethical in certain ways it was that they were young radical ideologues right when you're doing activism those people tend to emerge and drive movements forward but I sense in you kind of when we spoke about it before that you know it can also be kind of draining and it can be exhausting so how kind of has going inward and doing these meditation retreats kind of shifted your perspective or broaden your perspective on how to deal with some of those things well that's that's one of the things that I feel is most special about today in human history is that you know all throughout so many different areas of human history there have been groups of people who wanted to change the world to be much more humanistic much more less painful of an experience so that people can have you know their material needs met but I think the only thing that's really different about now that makes it so special is that we actually have the tools that are so widely available now more than ever before I think there's still a ways to go in regards to accessibility but more than ever before you know people can really find things that can transform themselves heal themselves and really get to know themselves at such a profound level that they can actually say yeah I feel freer not just in the external sense that I can you know move about as I please and be able to purchase what I want and not have an outside force and pinging on my freedom but really internal freedom like a new dynamic that helps you you know have a real an actual inner peace and I think when these things move in conjunction when they move side by side I think the amount of transformation that we're gonna see is gonna be so much more profound because I really feel like you know it's hard to say but a future global peace is really gonna be built on a foundation of individual inner peace you know the more that we have inner peace within ourselves it's gonna be able to support and it's funny because as you are actually able to cultivate that within yourself what you find is that you know like like you were saying organizational sort of tension that happens and it's really because like the ego is so dense you know what you're really having is so many different egos interacting with each other and what do egos do they're literally balls of friction and when they come into contact with each other obviously sparks are gonna start flying and there's gonna be these eruptions and people are gonna you know feel sort of tested and feel that like a version towards each other so that they won't quite be able to work together but when we do that in our work what happens is that you're literally releasing the denser parts of your ego so that instead of just focusing on okay I really want to be right I'm more so focused on long-term goals and really support the collective harmony of the organization so that we can be more effective as opposed to me necessarily being correct you know so that give and take is much better balanced and it's quite amazing because like I found that in my own life like like man before I started meditating you know I felt like I had zero creativity and now you know like I would never have imagined that my life would have led in a way where I'd be a writer but I think meditating really unlocked a lot of that stuff because it was just so it was you know covered up by so many dense layers that I've been working on and man I have so many things to work on but it really showed me that you know I can have a new ability to problem solve my creativity can flourish and you know I can have more energy to just do more things in life yeah that's really it's an interesting metaphor of or not it's actually what it is these balls of friction egos that really is it's such a really kind of resident thing you're saying there because that is what it's like when you and and what appears to be to be going on for a certain subset of people and I think this is speaks to the power of community and speaking about these things as much as possible amongst these stuff ourselves but it seems that these balls of friction are maybe they were slightly hidden by a veil before that we weren't easily seeing you know all of the time it seems now that this veil is kind of lifting and we can more readily notice our own hopefully that's the harder part but especially in other people these balls of friction that are there and like you're saying the amount of energy it takes to maintain that is really burdensome it's cumbersome right I was literally thinking the other day about how when we give to each other in a manner that's sort of really expect it that it's it's tied up with attachment I think that's one of the reasons why people just find it so draining to try to support each other because a lot of times like it's hard to give selflessly you know it's almost like that's something that we have to cultivate within ourselves but when you really just like give something to someone selflessly you're not gonna burn you not gonna burn away your energy yeah and it's an interesting thing to think about when when in regards to giving yeah well I've learned that with just having a kid because there are a lot of times but it's like you're I mean for those you don't know I'm sure you can imagine you're just basically supporting a young kind of nutball you know what I mean like it's just like this is a crazy individual who's emerging here and you don't you really like are tired all of the time when you're just kind of maintaining this especially if it's like multiple days in a row and you recognize there is kind of this wellspring though of energy that if you're you're doing it not kind of in like in obligatory sense like I have to do this but you're like I love my progeny I'm gonna continue to like support and love them you notice there's like these huge reservoirs of untapped energy that like you know I think this is one of the reasons that like if you engage in a profession that requires some level of selfless service just to kind of maintain so you know nurses a lot of times we're just doing kind of stuff like you want to make sure this person is okay because it's your job in some respect those people are I find very often very strong internal reservoirs of strength because they kind of are just doing this thing that creates this internal space rather than fixating on themselves now there's obviously a relationship between those types of jobs and trauma and all energy that goes you know dealing with that but it is this kind of this selfless giving is is such an important concept that really is kind of like a fusion generator of of energy it's fascinating to think about like that you know just to bring it to a really mundane level I saw a meme the other day that cracks me up so much and it was basically someone saying oh that my my my child is like my broke best friends it's really it's a situation where you're just giving and it's such a funny it's such a funny thing that you know the rearing of children and having children is like such a big part of the human experience for a lot of people that it's just funny to think that we are like a lot of us you know in some way or another whether we become parents or not we are given the opportunity to give selflessly you know and it's funny to think that you know like all of the global you know the whole world is set up in this way where it's like okay like now here's your chance like give it a try yeah and it's it's one of these things I realized to that like if there was one theme that I think carries across like every aspect of my life my interests my passions it's definitely this like it's community it's the growing sense of how your immediate community your family and close friends to just the people who you know are kind of gonna be there for you like that does kind of feel like the pillar of which we got to build this new foundation on because like if we don't like you were saying like I also believe that it is possible to move into an age of peace right of something that is just fundamentally different like we're marginally moving towards there but it's still very siloed offer too many people but I know I also recognize that if we don't kind of form these like stable pillars that we can build stuff on it's gonna be a harder and much more kind of difficult task and probably a slimmer chance of actually you know enacting what you and I are both envisioning yeah it's interesting I love that you mentioned community as a as a pillar because that's one of the things like one of the sort of directions that I could see the world moving in is you know democracy is a very like long-term project that should be evolving and I think one of the avenues that it can take is you know applying a deeper democracy where actual communities like let's say like you know and within cities like having sets of blocks because one of the big hurdles that we have to overcome is atomization you know one of the reason people are so lonely they feel so you know it's one of the things that sort of aggravates depression is this lack of community and I think one thing that can inject sort of rejuvenation of community is actually giving communities power so that they are forced to interact with each other and not like forced in a way that's coercive but in a way that's - it's to your own benefit to speak to each other because if we have sort of some type of democratic and monetary power to decide okay these are the resources our communities have you know what should we do should we like fix these potholes should we you know build a new school things like that as opposed to just having it be a top-down situation where it's only your representatives and only your mayors saying okay this is what we're gonna do with the resources we have at hand which is all well and good they can still be there and present but to just sort of allow a bigger sharing of that power will help people to you know come together in these small assemblies and have these conversations you know monthly or like quarterly and really get to know their neighbor in another way and it you know it is a situation where like right people will disagree will agree and but it creates a bigger opportunity for people to humanize each other because if you really know your neighbor and you understand that okay oh you also want safety and you also want good schools and you also want access to good you know hospitals then it's gonna be much less likely for you to harm them yeah that's critical to understand and the things you mentioned there are just things that everyone wants regardless of your political affiliation like no it's like no I want shit here hospitals in school that's my platform it's like no but it is really that like I envision exactly kind of what you're you're talking about and I actually see people doing it in my local community so my friends and I who I've become friendly with and and recognizing that this really is kind of like a canvassing community centric thing first right because I just recently I'm not gonna mention any names or the specific organization but over the weekend it's called to my attention that inside of kind of this psychedelic community there were some words exchanged against the kind of an elder stateswoman of the scene and kind of a young entrepreneurial upstart both of whom I tangentially know and have come across in multiple avenues but at one point some of the language that was used was just like like it was like the term that was actually said was irrelevant and referring to this older woman who's not older but she's just older than this guy and I was like man like how do you say that to someone on an internet if you're trying to be kind of like a thought leader someone who's talking about building community like those are the things to me that I think just to tie this back into what you do and what you're really about this meditation stuff like if you're getting to a point where you're calling someone else irrelevant on the internet and you're fancying yourself as kind of a thought leader or someone has something some wisdom to share or offer like it's that stuff seems to be kind of bubbling up to the surface and that's what I was talking about those friction balls kind of being more evident to people it seems like that that's kind of what's happening you know yes the good is certainly getting kind of you know more accessible and more easy your Instagram account is accessible by anyone it's just like a nice soothing kind of like tea for the mind when you come across it but we're also seeing incredible levels of contentiousness and egos flare up but I think that's kind of the good that comes along with this I guess where my question kind of is going for this is what aspects has meditation really helped you with in terms of dealing with your own kind of shadow unobserved kind of darker you know elements of your psyche I mean I know that's a big benefit of it but I mean can you talk a little bit about that and how it's helped you yeah I think there are this is this is a really funny example last night I got a like a really weird message from and now I can't always respond to every message and I honestly don't really try to this if I did it would take away too much of my day and I think I'm much more effective if I have these sort of boundaries you know like I'll post and put up stories and you know respond to a few messages here and there but I also need to have my space you know act I shouldn't be on my phone all day every day but I ended up reading this one message and this guy he was he was like a I don't know if he was upset or not but it was a weird message about how I shouldn't say you know like something I would write he was like oh we all know we all know that you should you shouldn't need to write that and it was like you know one it was funny because it was coming from someone who was like supposed to be like a Zen person and I was like okay I was like cool and I turned to my wife and I was like should I just like explain because there because the thing is like I will write clear instructions sometimes in my stories because there are other demographics that people aren't aware of like you know they're more and more sort of like 40 and 50 year olds who are using this to Graham who don't really know how to use it well yeah you know I'm not I'm not explaining things sometimes for people to like you know let's say for a story you can press and hold a story yeah and actually be able to like hold it so that it doesn't go away in 15 seconds but like a lot of people don't know that yeah so like if you do know that that's fine don't worry about it you know but it was funny like you know this like sort of angst coming from someone and I was like okay I was like that's cool and then I felt the urge in need to be petty yeah you know it's like even respond and just be like come on man like you know this is I'm not I'm not doing this actually for you I'm doing this for someone who's new to the Instagram world because there are more and more people who are using Instagram every day and but then you know I like showed it to my wife she laughed and I was like I want to be petty and she said no like you know like it don't be petty like and you know better and I was like yeah you're right like let me just go away and so like from little things like that where it's like okay why why create more friction in my own life you know if I already feel it inside myself like there's there would be no value in me continuing this interaction so like the deeper darker things where you know where I you know I used to deal with so much sadness and anxiety to the point where it was like it was like actually literally controlling my life like I remember I spent like almost like a year just like avoiding everyone besides like two two close friends my now wife and my family but I went from you know having so many friends and really you know being a very social guy to just saying no to every invite because my sort of anxiety my my my feeling of like worthlessness and my feeling of like my lack of love for my body just feeling so out of it led me to just like not just like literally avoiding so many people for a long long time for about a year and eventually I was able to come out of that and then when I started meditating I saw I was like wow I couldn't even really recognize how how dark the situation had gotten but when I started meditating I started realizing that like oh like you know situations that literally used to bring me anxiety and tension I feel a little more peaceful in them and now I can you know behave in a way that I actually want to as opposed to a way that I regret but it's pretty amazing because like you know you think you get over a lot of things and you don't quite realize how rapidly you're repeating patterns and how rapidly the subconscious of the mind is actually reacting that you know the same type of thing will come up over and over again because you literally just don't see how layered it is but I can tell that you know there is some sort of progress because I'm kinder to the people around me I'm kinder to myself and you know it's it's really hard to like actually measure like how much could I actually let go like how many patterns did I release you know but you can see in your interactions with yourself and with other people like okay my interactions are actually much more harmonious my life feels a bit more productive and I feel generally happier and that's how you really measure you know how much you've let go yes I love that you you referred I mean so you said so much amazing stuff there and I also want to acknowledge the one many wonderful qualities of having a wife is always being the person who's like yeah don't do that do you know I mean I've had identical conversation 20 times in the past few years and she's like don't do that that's not gonna be just like you know I don't want to do that it's funny because people like you know people compliment people I get a lot of compliments but what I am one of my most often thoughts is like like you think like I know stuff like my wife knows that it's true I totally get it man I totally get it I like also love this idea of kind of measuring your progress to the best of your ability and also kind of retroactively sometimes that takes years like one of the I call it my dolphins fan level of mental success which is basically 10 years ago for me 15 years ago if I watched the Miami Dolphins play and they lost which was often just like now I would be enraged not only in the immediacy of the loss depending on the severity of it but for like a week I would be upset like just a ridiculous amount of time and over the years I've finally gotten it to the point where it's basically like you know all right they suck two seconds after the game is over I'm moving on because how much can I invest emotionally in this but it really is like it's little things like that and it could be just your reactions to your loved ones your children your your significant others your family friends people customer service people but there are these kind of like be you know things signposts we can put down in the ground and recognize like you know what there this is progress it maybe doesn't mean we're perfect yeah yeah yeah man it's it's really I love that idea because I think you know this very much I'm sure you see the irony of this too of really operating on a platform like Instagram but people want immediate results always and it's it's it's we talk about it so much it's trite it's almost like a platitude just loses all resonance but the reality of the situation is is that's how we function now more than ever and something like meditation can really take years potentially to really give you like a clear sign that this is yes you can get some immediate results of course it's not something that has to take years but it really is kind of like the slow committed totally path towards success which is something that people are kind of conditioned to so like how do you how do you go about kind of dealing with and combating those expectations that I'm sure you encounter plenty of times yeah often oftentimes I find myself responding to the same question over and over you know often a question is like how do you like go like how do you do it and a lot of times I feel like you know it makes sense to me why Western society has become so you know inclined to using pharmaceutical medicine like one because it works and two because it's fast but I love something that Ruby Warrington from The Numinous she really calls this era the now age because everyone wants everything right now and and I couldn't agree with that more but it's funny because in a way I feel like Western society's hesitation towards meditation is that it takes time and it's like oh really like I can't just like get inner peace right now and it's no you know you can I like really group that you said I think you definitely can see immediate results but if you want you know profoundly profoundly transformative results that that requires some consistency and that's another thing that you know people from this now age sort of recoil against because consistency is difficult especially when we have such sort of scattered minds because of the all the technology that we use and whatnot but I think if you really want results you know you want consistency you want to continue going at it and I think it was funny because I remember I went to a number of ten day vipassan of courses before I started meditating daily before I started meditating like morning and evening and it was when I actually started meditating morning and evening that I started seeing real deep like much quicker results and and that was really life-changing it makes sense too that the kind of morning and night as both kind of like you're a different person at the night than you were in the morning if that's not clear it'll definitely be clear if you start to meditate just because you've gone through a whole days worth of stuff how many thousands and dozens of thousands of thoughts and emotions have you probably gone through during the course of the day so yeah it makes sense that that will kind of be an accelerator I mean I think it is like this idea of putting down signposts along the way it's just one of the tools that meditation provides because it's like okay well what was going on then what was going on then what was going on then and also I think as it's funny you mentioned Ruby Warrington because I know she's very much into astrology I think it's one of these kind of intersections of kind of the meditative mindfulness mind state and kind of modality and astrology is because astrology is literally just putting down signposts everywhere it's just like boom boom boom boom boom boom this planet's in conjunction with this this is where you were born so this means this and that isn't something to some people that can look just like total like nonsense but it really over time can show its benefits by like letting you know like maybe there is something else going on maybe there is another perspective that you're missing out on or you would be helpful for you to know and I think that's kind of like again it's so counterintuitive where everything like we're telepathically in communication with each other one-to-one one to many all of the time and all of us it's not just kind of designated for people who have large followings on Instagram if you have your friends and your 200 followers so hundred followers like you're constantly connected with this stuff it's just so kind of anachronistic to be thinking about something like oh I got to do this every day for how long the rest of my life like 30 days you know it's just like it's not how people want to think about these things but I think again this is very much related to the hard and kind of difficult and uncomfortable work that needs to be done kind of for the part of ourselves we don't like looking at and that to me is kind of like the pivot from where we can go from kind of this like very high-pitched egotistical kind of mindset self-mimi me focus to kind of what we're talking about which is these communities coming together recognizing the interconnectedness the same wants and desires and trying to move that forward it becomes pretty obvious at a certain point yeah there's um you know one thing that you're saying is making me think about how there are a lot of thoughts that we're having or even like more like sub thoughts you know just like mental connections that are happening that we're totally oblivious to you know you're you can hear yourself thinking on the conscious level of your mind but in the subconscious there are like so many connections and so many observations being made that are like triggering responses inside of you that we're totally oblivious to throughout the day so it's funny because I remember the meditation teacher that that I listened to as San Goenka he talks about you know the reason why you do meditate in the morning in the evening is because you were actually while you were sleeping you were making tons and tons of these sort of like mental knots having these heavy reactions because you're like dreaming and you're moving around and there's tons of things happening even while you're asleep and then you wake up and you're you know building a whole other set of reactions during the day so it's literally like you know you meditate in the morning to clean up what happened during the night and you meditate during the evening to clean up what happened during the day you take that into regards like connect that to your entire life you know when I think when I think about like I'm 31 years old now but and I did my first meditation course when I was about when I was 24 I literally I was telling I told my wife I was like wow like I didn't meditate for 24 years like 24 years of my life I literally just like build reaction upon reaction upon heavy pattern heavy pattern and it literally led me to like being pretty miserable and and to think that you know like going away for like 10 days 20 days 30 days sounds like a long time but when you sort of literally add the number of days compared to how many thousands upon thousands of days where you've been sort of reinforcing reinforcing a particular conditioning of your mind that doesn't even really support your happiness or your mental clarity and you compare that to like you know 10 or 20 or 30 days that you're really taking the time to sort of address that situation so that you can be happier it's not really that much you know yeah yeah and not only not that much but maybe actually necessary I mean yeah what's interesting to me is we're again we're speaking a little bit this before we restart recording but the people I know who really do this and speak about this stuff and teach about it the ones who I think are generally walking the walk they're the people who recognize it's not like they did 10 years of 30-day retreats you know annually and then that was their quota if anything they recognize like you have that like it's important to keep doing this stuff if anything do it more like you become more aware of kind of the subtle karmic knots you're creating all of the time I also just to mention I love the idea from the Goenka vintage of this idea of dreaming and creating these patterns while you're dreaming because I mean this is a relationship that Socrates used to kind of for his prove for evidence of reincarnation was you know saying listen when you go to sleep at night do you remember going to sleep and it was a whole kind of wonderful analogy I think it's in Plato's Phaedra but it's it's fascinating kind of proof of that like just because you can't remember what was going on doesn't mean stuff wasn't happening and this is a very good kind of powerful reminder that yeah we're creating karma for ourselves all of the time even when we're relatively aware we're creating karma we can still be doing it so imagine of the amount of mindless kind of karmic knots that we're building up it's a profound kind of thing to think about you know there's this funny thing that I learned historically that I haven't been able to place dates on yet but I know that there's a story of a fully enlightened being that was around like 200 or so years after the Buddha and he traveled all the way to Greece and he actually ended up talking to a Greek king and sort of like expounded on the Dhamma and the king asked him a ton of questions and it's actually like it's written down it's codified I forget the actual king's name oh but um but this happened and I'm so curious if this happens you know the four Socrates or after Socrates because a lot of the things that Socrates does talk about are pretty you know they're relational to karma and I wonder you know like where did this idea come first because even I mean the idea of karma was around even before before the Buddha was around more than two thousand six hundred years ago so yeah it's very old and I think you know where I think it's sort of like that Eurocentric mentality that attributes a lot of these ideas to these like ancient Greek philosophers but I feel like it's all really coming from India I mean it makes I mean I we know historically that things we're discussing are much older than the Greeks and I think even when you go and look at a lot of the Greek philosophers or Western philosophers you can identify the ones that were influenced or had knowledge of a lot of these kind of ideas I also imagine there's some profound relationship between the mystery schools that were going on as a form of lineage you know kind of akin to tool crews or other kind of enlightened beings being reincarnated and passing down wisdom that's basically just lost completely for for better or worse depending on how you look at it but yeah I mean it's pretty clear that this stuff also can be arrived to by many different means and one of the best and most reliable ones if you have the patience and kind of diligence to do it is this inward pursuit is recognizing that there may not be something out there that's gonna teach you about yourself that it's you inside and kind of just this crazy mind conscious and unconscious that we possess like that really holds all the clues for us and that's a very kind of like again it's not palatable for a Western mind to hear that it's like what like I want the quick fix like I want I want the hit to be able to go and do this I want to find that thing that is gonna make me you know a better person which is a very noble pursuit of course it doesn't it's not a bad thing but it's also something that like it is a slow and often painful process that we're not conditioned to like it's just we're not at this point and it does it requires people like you writing about this stuff in simple and authentic terms and I mean that's something that I'm always is founded by and reminded by just on you because I'm not a heavy Instagram user but I follow you and I do see your stuff and the resonance of it right like I said there is there is a current of authenticity to it that is felt and perceived by people relative like I feel like someone could jack your words and put it up on their Instagram account and I'd be like nah that's not the same you know what I mean like that is something that if there is a thread that kind of maintains and and this emanates from people who are really actually walking the walk that's basically what I'm doing yeah and I think I think it's interesting because I want to you know I do sort of try to sit myself in between psychology and philosophy and try to like you know just explore these different ideas of you know that people are experiencing in that universal human condition you know even though we may have very different mental contents the structure of our minds are essentially the same you know the same way we all have like to or the you know where sort of like evolution tries to have us you know have like two legs and two arms and all that the mind is the same but it's you know it's funny sort of I've positioned myself in this way where I'm describing things intellectually you know I'm trying to even though it's a minimalistic format it's still you know it's still write things down in your sort of cognizing about it in your mind and it's on the conscious level of the mind but I really try to support the message being that it's more so through your feeling like through not your ability to think but your ability to feel that the letting go happens and that the transformation happens because a lot of times you know like the human beings have gotten so good at reading you know people read all over the world and more and more people are learning to read but that really sort of continues generating more intellectuality which is all great and fun because it's the intellectual part of the mind that's really built this world yeah and but when you want to profoundly transform and profoundly develop your freedom it you actually have to cultivate other facets of your mind you have to make your awareness you have to cultivate your equanimity your you know your compassion and these things are you know can be supported by intellectuality but it's really through your ability to observe your ability to feel that all the magic really starts happening you have to see now that's that you put it into eloquent words what I was getting at which is this ability to feel and kind of perceive dropping down into your heart as Rhonda's would call it but you know going into your intuition whatever terms you want to use that is truthfully what we readily call miraculous and magical happen but that's the realm it exists in and it's interesting that the intellect is so fascinated by those kind of miraculous or synchronistic or magical occurrences but it you're right it can't get to it in the same way as kind of the experiential knowing and what I'm encouraged by in this day and age is that maybe it's anecdotal and maybe it's my own personal experience but it does seem to me that the cream is rising to the top and the bullshit is also rising to the top so you just have to pick it off or choose what you want to deal with you know what I mean like it's not like they're separating and oh that's all the bad stuff isn't popular anymore all this nonsense isn't popular anymore but it seems that kind of enough people are kind of dropping into their hearts and their felt experiences and those other kind of modes of consciousness that like it's it's encouraging it's very encouraging I got to say yeah I think so too I think you know they're obviously you know still horrible things happening all over the world and we should be very cognizant of them but at the same time like I've never been more hopeful for humanity because we have some you know we talked about this last time we have some gigantic challenges ahead of us but I think like the same way that I mentioned before about you know us being equipped with the tools to heal ourselves like this is actually happening I mean I'm literally you know I try to watch trends especially on social media and I love the one that I've really noticed is that over I would say about for like three to four years people were really discovering the idea of self-love and defining it for themselves and really figuring out you know what what is self-love for me and actually using that to transform their lives but then that sort of has led into the idea of like you know once you start loving yourself in that way you get in contact with yourself and you start finding out oh you know I have this like I like to give it the term emotional history I have this big emotional side that that needs dealing with you know I have to let go a lot of these things so I feel like the big question now and sort of a lot of the commentary coming from a lot of different people is like how do you let go you know how are you letting go what are you doing you know and people are literally sharing with each other well I'm at a favorite pasta note or this person does X Y and Z you know people do so many different things there there are more things that I'm even aware of that have actually helped people and I feel like the next step is the you know you're moving from self-love you're asking yourself now like how do you let go and I think the next step is really sort of bringing to light the actual practices that are really supporting people and actually helping them let go because I think a lot of people have found is that it's the answer isn't as easy as like as you would have originally hoped for it takes a little more work you know and but but you the effort that you put in I mean it will give you astounding results especially if you're using a good technique yeah and I think that underscores the importance of thinking a bit like a process rather than something you're just gonna get from like oh you just get X and then put it with Y and then you got Z there you go it is kind of this idea like I mean it's like we laugh at it but that is how we think about something think about like if you needed something today you know a toothbrush and you can't you just go on Amazon or go to someplace like all right I got my toothbrush I did that now it's coming here like that's how we kind of think about things now and it is important to think to remember that it is kind of this process and letting go especially is a process I wish do you know many times I've had a particular kind of anxiety about our interpersonal relationship or someone did me wrong in my mind and I've let it go the same thing it's like over and over and over and yes sometimes you're actually letting go of some aspect of it but right very rarely it's like you say all right I'm letting go and boom it's gone and dust in the wind it's like this very kind of if you do think of them is kind of like knots right like it can take some time to untangle could be a really big one you're gonna have to come back multiple times for and you know I it's it's interesting that you an important that you mentioned that it is kind of this idea of alright now that we've kind of found self-love right now that we're kind of finding dealing these emotional kind of stories and briefcase of stuff we have with us like now we're letting it go now we're kind of bringing it out into the forefront of what helped us and I think kind of bring it back to one of the original things we're talking about I see the mistake in kind of our world of me having a podcast talking about these types of things you being a writer and speaking about these things is that a lot of times people who enter these spaces and want to be thought leaders or people who are highlighting what you say is the natural step I mean how many people do mushrooms for the first time and just want to like tell everyone about their new mushroom business it's like the idea that we can just jump from the experience to telling everyone about the experience sometimes needs to be reflected upon and the man hours need to be put in woman hours need to be put in to actually like build up the kind of foundational strength to actually talk about this stuff because I see that like if anything I would say the current kind of the scene that exists now is more and more people are waking up to the fact that we are living in a very crazy time and that we have more strife but also more power to change that strife into positive action than ever before and the kind of all that can come with a lot of these like amazing realizations can quickly lead into like all right how am I going to tell other people about this and I think there does need to be that kind of cause and this is something that I know you know with meditation right you reflect on this stuff and you say what's the most effective way is this serving my interest is this serving other people's interests and I think that's really important I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on that cuz I'm sure you're seeing it I mean like people pop up every day they're doing this they're doing that they're doing the other thing and some of them seem legit some of them seem kind of shaky so I mean what do you think about all this stuff you know and I really like I don't want to condemn anybody because I don't know I don't actually know what people are doing what they're thinking inside their heads yeah but I want I think I can mostly just talk about myself and I feel like that's one of the reasons why I felt comfortable with writing because I positioned myself in a way and I openly talk about it especially at the talks that they give in person you know I decided to write because I know that what I'm writing today may be different from what I'm writing tomorrow that if this is like a long-term process of me sort of trying to you know write down the things that I feel like I'm understanding but also with the understanding that this may change you know like I you know and I would hope that it does change because I would hope that you know a year or so from now that my understanding has deepened and that I would you know go back in question whatever written before and try to you know become even clearer and I think that that's what gets me really sort of excited about being a student you know I often get asked and people are often kind of surprised and taken aback when I tell them I'm not a meditation teacher right and and they're like what and I'm like yeah nope like I'm just you know I'm really focused on being a student because I mean there are a lot of there are a lot of meditation teachers out there and I also think that there are a lot of fantastic ones but I really feel that I can most support people by just like continuing to be a student and I feel like one it's very it's supporting me and in my path and that's one of the things that I really love about the going to lineage is that it's pretty hard to become a teacher in that lineage like you you know there are teachers but you know you know it may never happen and if it does like it'll probably take like decades and decades for you to become a teacher because they they're sort of their bar for like quality teachers is very very high and and I really appreciate that as and I think it's fine you know like people sort of teach at teach from their experience level and a lot of times like you know the excitement of like mindfulness and meditation is very you know it's very vibrant right now so people are going out and showing each other what they know but um and I think when people you know start you know doing their sample classes and meditating for like five ten minutes through apps and meditating with individuals for 30 45 minutes then eventually you know they may sort of ask themselves okay like I want something deeper so then they go to you know someone who can take you through like a ten-day course or longer and all that so that you can get even greater benefits but I mean honestly like it does feel funny sometimes having to deal with those interesting interactions and people are like you teach this like you know 45 minutes whatever and I'm like nope I'm like now if you're happy to talk about things you know things I'm understanding about psychology but that's about it and I write about these things but you know and there's something else I wanted to touch on too which really sort of like lit a light bulb in my head and in regards to letting go and I think one thing that I'm pretty excited about is the this like giant movement of questioning identity and questioning the idea of like static identity you know because I think that I feel like when I'm back in like 2011 when I first became interested in these this way of thinking I think a lot of the talk was around trying to find out who you really are and I feel like that definitely leads to some walls where you know find like who am I really and I feel like one of the most important things I've learned from meditating is that this whole like mind-body structure is so impermanent and it's so rapidly changing that trying to really focus on like who am I it might be you might be much better suited on focusing like you know how can I free myself or like how can I release these things that are limiting my happiness and limiting my clarity as opposed to finding some static identity just sort of being okay with having a dynamic identity and just understanding that this like mind-body phenomenon is so rapidly changing and there's so many sort of like you know trillions amounts of different cause and effects that are coming together to make this idea of Diego that you know it's okay for that to change because I think a lot of times when I am observing myself and I'm finding some mental tension arising a lot of it is surrounded around having a static idea of who I am and being like oh this is you know because of my sense of identity and I want my identity to be understood in this way and I want my you know people to think about me in this way then I find that tension sort of erupts and instead of being able to like let that go and just understand like you know that people can think about things the way they want and I can live my way and that live my life in the way that I appreciate and allow that sort of like roving moving sense of who I am as opposed to it being so firm I found a lot of freedom in that and I think a lot of other people are too so I'm hoping that that's something that gets more and more developed is you know just a dynamic identity like you know you change and and oftentimes your freedom is pretty dependent on you being flexible with who you are yeah yeah I mean I I know for me at least psychedelics help kind of impart that message very quickly because I did it at an age I did LSD when I was 15 when your mind is kind of still developing and the ideas of identity are definitely kind of shifted in this combobulated for a little bit but also I mean the who am I question was Ramana Maharshi's hack right he's like listen here's what you do I did it when I was a kid and inadvertently he laid down pretended like he was dead but didn't like pretend kind of was like I'm dead and just kept asking the question who am I who am I who am I and he's like if you do that enough and with enough kind of like diligence and vigor you'll realize the answer the question is like now what you thought you were like definitely not what you thought you were so and that can potentially open up a whole other realm of kind of seeing the world and how things work and I think that's important I mean it it is like when we're pitching this stuff kind of like from a capitalistic Western mode of being it's like yeah figure out who you are figure out your true calling figure out your identity and I mean we see this even identity discussions and all the whole spectrum of gender politics people's reaction to that it is a very kind of nebulous place to try to analyze but I agree I mean my conception of myself you know I know I'm Noah I know I have responsibilities and a family and all these things but I'm not too attached to the idea of what that actually means or is because it shifts so much and it's so easily shiftable that's the thing it's not like you know I need some major life catastrophe to change the way I'm thinking in the course of a day could be anything right and and I think that's like very once you kind of get familiar with the way your mind thinks and you can watch it in that regard like you recognize like you better be careful if you're gonna say this is who you are and I think that dovetails perfectly into what you were saying about kind of maintaining this student versus teacher mindset which is I do see the rush from people to be teachers I think the benefit of having a beginner's mind and being a student and constantly curious and not necessarily saying you have the answers or this that and the other thing is really a message that I think more people need to subscribe to because not only does it kind of operate on a more truthful and honest platform but it also allows people to recognize their own kind of inner wisdom and truth right it their own ability to kind of be a student and come to some of these insight that you were met me or someone else have have come to so it's very important it's I think it's a very key distinction and when we talk about this stuff I'm glad you brought it up I am you know it's so funny cuz now I keep thinking about how human beings you know we really function on the apparent level like we like to see society as solid right like that you know this couch is here and this floor is here and looking at things on the apparent level but we don't really like to engage with the you know the deeper subtler reality that the fact that you know at the atomic level everything is rapidly rapidly changing yeah and I feel like it's an inner way it's like we're collectively learning that it's okay to be a little more subtle that you know you may look at me as you know apparently I'm some solid being and if I'm solid in this way I should also have a solid identity that I feel like that's been sort of that friction with you know people coming out and being like hey you know what like I can change and what I am is always changing and that's totally fine and that should be legally supported and I think that's quite powerful because it's almost like you know humanity having a conversation with itself yeah also a deepening of consciousness because a lot of times you know what what is you know your awareness like when you're meditating your awareness is just growing sharper and sharper so that more of what is subconscious becomes conscious yes and I think human beings are understanding that like you know whether it's within the realm of gender politics or not that who they are you know is is actually changing and it's actually changing rather rapidly but I feel like you know once you really accept that idea of impermanence it leads you to really amazing deeper understandings and just like allows you a lot of flexibility so you can be free and happy yeah which is kind of the underlying point here which is like yeah it's great to to observe and debate and think about and measure but it is like we want to be freer and happier like that's everyone's fundamental desire no matter how we think we're gonna achieve that that's we're all shooting for the same thing man I truly love speaking to you whenever we get a chance we should try to do it a little more regularly I know we're both busy people at times but Diego just wonderful I want to end with the questions let's see if you've maintained your static identity on your favorite questions I do this I love it with the guests because they do deviate sometimes some people are exactly the same but sometimes they deviate so we'll see what's your favorite color oh man it's so hard it's it's blue and black can I have to or is it you can have no I made the rules you can't what do you crazy can't have to you no that's totally okay blue and black I think I'm four days out of the week probably black the other days blue I like it I like it a lot what is your favorite number oh seven seven I love it sevens and threes yeah sevens and threes I feel you on that what is your favorite animal my favorite animal I mean I'll be watching a lot of blue planet - and I'm really loving me some dolphins right now it's my favorite animal good choice good choice dolphins are fucking cool in some ways I know I love it and last question practical tip that has helped you in your life that you could share with people listening I think one of the biggest things is just wait before you respond like you know give literally just like take a pause especially something serious is happening just pause and marinate on it real quick and figure out how you actually feel before you start jumping into actions and oftentimes honestly like it's if the answer is non-action and obviously there are times where you do have to act but so many times I've been realizing that you know I want to do something but I the my urge to want to do it is for the sake of my ego and not a po not actually for the sake of you know supporting the well-being of all involved and I think sort of giving myself the time to pause has really supported me and just like having better relationships and better you know better everything I love it if people are also equally loving what you're saying and haven't picked up your book what's the best place for them to do that yeah this inward is and that's I and W A R D it's available in bookstores all around the world and you can find it either you know Barnes and Nobles or local local bookstore and you can also find it on Amazon and I'm online at on Instagram you can search me under YU NG underscore P U E B L O young Pueblo and I'm also on Facebook and Twitter where you can find me under YU NG no under no underscore P U E B L O I didn't know you were on Twitter yeah yeah I'm on Twitter and I'm using Twitter as like it's really funny cuz it's a smaller amount of people that are sort of like reading what I'm writing there so I'm using it kind of like experimentally and I'm kind of just like I'm sometimes just like writing you know like things that I wouldn't necessarily put up on Instagram I love it it's pretty fun Twitter is just digitized consciousness we're just circumventing the little part of ourselves that like thinks of something and then says it out loud we're just typing it now I love it cool man I will have you again on soon because I truly it's like a like I said it's like a nice tea for the soul speaking with you and reading what you write so we'll connect against you man thanks for coming on likewise thank you so much for having me I peace buddy peace brother you you that's a little bit of a long time I've got the door there's a drag and nothing on the game now I might have been my process of thinking this is my face basically never has it's an action that we know what is that that way does that exist the physics of you know that he's basically safe there is real necessary for it whatever thanks for listening to that episode Diego what can I say go follow him or on Instagram young Pueblo Twitter young Pueblo there's a underscore between young and Pueblo and young is y-u-n-g you know like young thug young Pueblo an underscore go check him out what's not to love about him cool guy doing good stuff not a big head about it love it that's it rate review iTunes you know how like you check your Facebook or your Twitter or your Google or whatever it is and you sometimes you know how many links I get how many I think I like to do that with reviews on iTunes so the next time you're checking your social media you can go follow the link I'm gonna go to iTunes I'm gonna do a rate and review five stars you need to review it I mean you can if you want but you just read it five stars boom that's it that's all oh I'm not taking this I'm loving these intros and outros for this episode that's it I will see you next week with I special things coming next week that's all I'll say about that special things alright see you next week love you hey there it's Wayfair here we're delivery and set up are 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