Music Inception with Emmett Kai

(upbeat music)

Welcome to Synchronicity, my guest this week. That's right, there's a guest this week, his Emmet Kai, I met Emmet a few weeks ago, a couple of weeks ago, I don't know, in Brooklyn, had a wonderful time chatting. I mean, we spoke actually a couple of times before we recorded, and it was very clear to me that it was gonna be an incredible episode. Emmet can hang, right? He can hang in the astral dimensional. Is that a crow? Can you hear that crow, crowing? It's a sign from Odin that we're on the right track. But no, Emmet can hang, man. He's fucking cool as shit, he's a musician, he's a producer, we're on the same wavelength, is the best way I could say it.

Go check him out on his website, his Instagram, there are links in the episode show notes on the website, all the places you would find it. I have a feeling, probably 'cause we've spoken about it, we'll be collaborating on a bunch of stuff coming up. A new, you know, like you meet someone, you're like, "Oh, this is a friend, this is a friend, "I've been friends with a long time." Even if you just met, that's who Emmet is. And I'm sure you'll hear that in this episode very clearly. We talk about a whole bunch of shit, dreams, astral projection, the movie Inception, which has really become a wonderful kind of template and teaching tool.

I'm gonna take a hit of this joint, how about this? Super fucking professional in the intro. But yeah, we just talk about a bunch of cool shit. I remember after the episode, like right when I hit stop, I was like, "Holy shit, that was a good one." So I'm excited for you guys to listen to this and hear the same things and experience the same things I felt during this conversation. Go check out his music. He's on Spotify, he's on all the streaming services. We'll have links, his shit is tight. It's got a really fucking clean, like for people like me who are audio files who love all types of music, when there's this resonant tone, this frequency from producers and musicians who really put care into how they craft their sounds and their music, the space that's around them, the dynamic range, words that probably mean very little to most non-musicians, but for people who like feel this and love this, it's incredibly important.

And Emmett's got that in spades. It's just, you'll hear a shit and you'll fucking love it and recognize what the fuck I'm talking about. He's also about to blow the fuck up, right? I've called so many people over the years on this podcast right before they blow and like he's blowing, so it's not like I'm taking a huge fucking leap of faith here. These crows are out, man. Can you guys hear that shit? The crows even know, right? Hear them? They know, they're like, yo, yeah, Emmett's about to blow. He's blowing, it is what it is. So go check out his stuff. I am gonna save all my ramblings for the solo cast or reminder, the Patreon, you're getting bonus stuff.

I'm about to put up a bonus episode in a week from my friend Daniel. I'll be releasing additional guest episodes over on the Patreon. We have the readings, we have the extra bonus stuff. Also for people who want the Instagram readings, the three paragraph, three card draws, just stay tuned on Instagram, that shit's happening. It's, you know, I'm doing it regularly. Oh, I don't wanna forget. The wonderful people at Ned, CBD full spectrum hemp oil. I'm blessing this shit, guys. I'm remotely blessing it. It's getting to people. I know you guys are loving it. I would recommend right now, if I was gonna recommend a product as the weather is changing here as it's still winter, but the solstice is coming up, we're about to be in the spring.

The chapstick, the CBD lip balm. That shit has saved my ass when I get chap lips. And I am one of those people who acknowledges that chapstick can often just perpetuate a problem and make your lips more chapped. But their shit seems to let it actually solves it. It heals it so you're not like tied to it. I also like the full spectrum hemp oil. The shit is good. It's CBD. It's CBD awesome. What doesn't make sense? That's just a terrible thing I just said. I've edited out if I gave a shit, but I don't. So let's just get to the fucking episode. How about I tell you I get 15% off the fucking thing?

Wow. Wow. Nice going, Noah. 15% off if you use the code SINK, S-Y-N-C at checkout@helloned.com. Easier, the sponsors tend to like it if you actually let people know how to buy their products and get a discount. So thanks to the guys at Ned for sticking with me as I butcher every fucking ad I've ever done for them. But really it is good shit. And I act truthfully, not a week goes by at this point where a new CBD sponsor gets in touch with me to try to like prime me away from the Ned guys 'cause it's obviously a booming industry. There's a lot of marketing being put behind it. And I stand behind the Ned people, right?

They again, go check out the episode I did with a retinidrian to see, just get a sense of who they are as people. Yeah, they're fucking awesome. I expect to be doing a lot more with them in the coming years. So weeks, months, years, whatever it is. Big shout out to Christian also for facilitating that stuff. Okay, business done. Readings are open, those are still going on. The Patreon really is the place though. I'll be putting out a couple of new tiers for people. Instead of yelling at people for giving me a dollar, I'll give people a dollar option. I think we'll probably do like one, five, the 13, 13, and maybe a 20.

Yeah, so that's going on. Stay tuned for that. The email list, I know people have been asking, you should be able to join on syncpodcast.com. Just go there, there should be a pop up. If it doesn't pop up for you, I'll work on making sure that it's easily accessible through like a link or something. That's going on. Live events are happening. I will be in Brooklyn doing tarot at a Mezcal event. I think it's like April 11th. My sister has the details. I'll dovetail that in with the episode I reported with her related to Mezcal, so stay tuned for that. And then the live event that, I believe it'll be me, synchronicity and the very eight podcasts will do some joint thing.

That'll be emerging. Stay tuned for the spring, definitely the summer for those Brooklyn is looking like the first place. And then I'm going to try to get back to LA in the coming weeks. Now, let me talk about the most important thing. This is a music episode. We got Emmon on here. I'm starting, music is coming within the next month. Like I'm putting it out on the streaming sites. Patrons are going to get early access to it. I'm just putting this stuff out. I've been talking about it for so fucking long. I've had some amazing conversations about kind of my plans related to it. And I think the most important thing for me, I don't think this, I know this, is just to get it out there.

I have so much stuff, just I know once I kind of uncorked that bottle, it's all going to come flowing out. You guys don't even know, I forget at any given time like 20 to 30% of the stuff I've created. And of that 20 to 30%, it's usually good shit. So stay tuned for that. Again, Patrons will get early access with downloadable files. Then it'll hit the streaming sites. I would say, expect some releases this month and expect them to come and continue for the rest of the year. A lot of different styles of music. You've heard some of it on the intro and outro of this podcast. Now you're going to have the full stuff.

So for people who've been asking me, thank you so much. It's incredibly inspiring at any point where I kind of doubt myself. And I'm like, ah, should I put this out? I don't know if it's good enough. When I get the messages and the emails and the response from you guys saying, hey, when is that out? I really love it. I want to hear it. Like you don't even know what that does for me. Like you don't know. It's one of the most satisfying things I've ever experienced in my life. So anyway, I've rambled on enough. How would we just get to the fucking episode? Emmett's the fucking coolest without further ado.

Here is Emmett Kai. Okay, before we get to the episode, I want to talk about there's a weird buzzing that happened. Really interesting thing happened during this episode. Like 40 minutes in, I got this weird feeling that there were audio issues. There was nothing to indicate that in any way. But in my head, it was like, I feel like there's maybe something there's going to be audio issues. And sure enough, I literally went and listened. I never do this. I never edit this podcast just to be clear. Like very, very seldomly, someone will ask me to take a little part out, but that's happened like two or three times.

But I went and I saw on the waveform that it was this weird kind of, it looked like something was up and there was this buzzing. So I went through and I edited all the parts where there was a buzzing. I took out one little section where Emmett tell an amazing story about the Grateful Dead gear that he went out to California and recorded all this stuff. But outside of that, I edited everything. From my mic, I picked up his sound. There's a slight buzz, which doesn't even make sense that it would be on my mic 'cause the buzzing was on his. But 95% of this episode is intact. I'm just calling attention to it 'cause for someone like me, it drives me nuts.

And I'm sure for Emmett who makes music. It's also, it's like one of those things. But anyway, you probably don't care, but I'm just calling attention to it. I fuck, fuck, fuck. I didn't really. I just, I think I need to get a new Zoom too. This thing has been with me for five years. I think I'm gonna get a new one, maybe an H6. So, you know, fun times. Anyway, that's going on. You'll love the episode now, officially, without further ado. Here is Emmett Kai. (upbeat music) ♪ We talk to the villains ♪ How many hours does this thing hold? (sighs) Fuck, I don't know. It's 32 gigabyte, so a lot. So a lot, this is a pretty small.

It's small, I've had this for a long time. I need to upgrade my mobile setup because it's only two channels. So something you could take, you could take this out to like Bali and anywhere. There's an X Y. There's an X Y that goes on the top that's super small and you can just grab shit, like field. That's sick. Yeah. I love that. But it's not on right now, right? You have to plug it in. Yeah, it's somewhere. I don't know where it is. Very cool. Thanks for doing this, man. Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, it's pretty fun. In this dark little cabin. It is a dark. It's a Brooklyn cabin. It is a dark little cabin in the woods.

This is a great place to be able to just astral project into wherever you wanna be. Yeah, well, there's a book. You would like to do that. Oh, maybe that's where I subconscious, I saw that out the corner of my eye and I was like, I'm gonna just use the phrase astral projection at some point. You know what's funny? So I remember early on when I was in college and I was taking acid for the first time, I had the realization that our brains filter so much of what we're perceiving with our senses out that what you just said would make a lot of sense, right? That you somehow subperceptually picked it up.

Pick something up, yeah. Totally. And then it just popped here. So that's true. Yeah, it's like it's just waiting to kind of come into reality. Or that it's there that you've already selected it for yourself in a certain way. This is where it gets a little weird. But yeah, astral projection, man. Do you astral project? I would say that I do. I mean, I'm not 100% certain what, if there's a wrong or right way to do it. So that means you do it then. And that's what I mean. I mean, like we spoke recently, like the other day we were talking about my naps. Yeah, that's ma'am. Which have, they've died down quite a bit just because things have been busy and things have been good.

And I haven't been tired in the middle of the day. But like, those are like my astral projecting moments, I think is when I take those midday naps that I'm like super, you know, tuned in to like this picture, this image or this feeling or something like that. What do you think is going on when you're napping? And that happens. 'Cause you spoke about like things just kind of solving themselves or like this weird functional aspect of these naps. And it's interesting that you take them, I get that it's easier for us to take naps when we're tired, right? We're like, I have to take a nap now, I'm tired.

But I did this weird thing, I started doing it. I'm curious if you start trying this where you just take naps when you have a lot of shit going on. Like almost inappropriately. Yeah, like on, on a show day. Whenever I have a show, I always take a nap before, like in the middle of the day. What do you think's going on when you take these naps? I think it's a little, I think it's a little bit of rest for sure, but it's also like a little bit of neuroplasticity and like, you know, some rewiring and some like rebuilding. Like the image that I have in my mind is like in some sci-fi film and they're like taking you underground.

It's like this, this total cinematic, like 3D, like take you underground. And there's like all these gears patching into themselves and things are turning and it's like slow motion, but it's like very concrete and metallic and like really powerful. That's what's popping into my head. Interesting. So it's like this rutted kind of put everything back together or put it together in a way that wow. Or reconstruct it or break it down, reconstruct it, get stronger, kind of like get the muscle up a little bit. It's not, and it's, and like I said before too, it's not like I wake up from these naps and I have like this immediate epiphany.

It's just that it's like these tiny baby steps towards having like a stronger sense of something or like clarity or vision or whatever. But that seems to be right, the thing that comes before the thing that would come, right? In reality, right? That sense of like, huh, there's something that's maybe different now and then it comes into your world. Yeah, just like your stance. I'm just like getting my power stance, you know? It's like Keith Richards had a power stance on stage. Right. You know, everybody has like a power stance where you feel grounded and rooted into the ground. And maybe sometimes naps, I think help with that.

I would say they almost always help if you let them, but like, yeah, I mean. I mean, I'm not saying like nap your life away. No, that's, that's what we're proposing. Yeah. We're saying you need to nap pretty much like a cat on like 18 hours a day. Oh, but dude, have you heard of Derek? Man, he naps pretty much all day. I mean, he's just, his life is, he's going, he's doing great right now. I mean, he hasn't been awake for more than 20 hours this month. I mean, it's amazing. You know, we joke. I guarantee as we understand more of what's happening when we go into a restful sleep, like do you ever see a inception?

Yeah, totally. I actually just saw that for the first time like a couple weeks ago. Interesting. Yeah, very good, very good movie for understanding a lot of things. I actually watched it twice. Me too. But I didn't watch it back. I watched it the first time in theaters in the city. Oh gosh, when it came out, and then I saw it on a plane. And oh, man, on a plane, that's a different kind of experience. Well, because they're on a plane. They're on a plane, they're on a motherfuckers plane. Too far away if I like this. You're good. Okay, cool. You know how it is. We can always bump make things louder.

I kind of want to just, I mean back, relax. That's the whole point. But anyways, yeah, so you saw it on a plane. Yeah, so the scene I was thinking of inception while I brought it up is that scene when they go to, like they're in some like Indonesian country and they go underground to meet, like, the guy who makes all the potions or the dream stuff form. And there's all those dudes and they're like, no, that's their reality now. And they're just like, they put themselves under. It's a fucking trippy shit I've ever seen in my life. I was, when I saw that, I was like, okay, I no longer even know what this movie is about.

Like, this is like, this is taking a whole new shape. Yeah, it's pretty good. I actually did think about myself when I saw that. Yeah. But I was like, 'cause it makes you think like, are you, what is reality? Where is it? You know, who's Leonardo DiCaprio and A, B, what is reality? Exactly. And one of the coolest things about that movie, which is another connection that we have, I haven't even said your name, Emmet. Welcome to the show. I mean, I'll introduce you, people will know, but like people do an intro. I never introduced people, I just occurred to me, didn't mention it. It's all good. We could even do, we could even circle back and do an introduction at the very end.

Oh yeah, we're gonna figure this all out. So one of the cool things about that movie too is music's function in it, right? They use it to wake people up out of the dream. Yeah, totally. The ball back, the kickback, I don't know. The kickback, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly, right? There's also just the actual score to that movie, that crazy low-pitched like Hans Zimmer, like. That's the kind of, yeah, that, I've been actually picking up that like, that scoring frequency stuff more so in films lately. Yeah. It has something, it does something to you. Oh yeah. And it's subconscious, you don't even know that it's there.

Yeah, it's very powerful shit. Yeah, that movie is a great metaphor for what's actually going on here. The trick is, this is why I do tell people this is a dream. And if you get that and hold it and it doesn't freak you out, you know, you're like the girl in the movie who can like bend stuff. But it's not like ominous and scary. That's kind of the bent that movie takes. But it's actually pretty fun and amazing because you get to basically bend shit in a certain way. And you use this lovingly, 'cause it's not a dream and like, oh, this is gonna go away, I'm so sad, blah, blah, blah. Like you're gonna wake up or something and it's not like that at all.

It's all gonna be fake or it's all gonna be like whatever, yeah. Exactly. And that's like the anxiety-inducing part of all this. Yeah, and it's not accurate. Being afraid to like wake up, but it's like, I'll tell you right now, whenever I take a nap, I'm not fearful of waking up. It's not like, it's not, when are you ever just like, I mean, unless you're maybe in a really dark space, mentally, emotionally, and you're taking a nap. You know, and you just wanna stay asleep. I mean like, that's like, that's something real. That's something that I can't necessarily harp on directly from my point of view.

Right. I haven't really been there. I've been so fucking tired from partying that I've been like, I just wanna sleep forever. But like, there's also that kind of like, I can't wait to just like get up and just keep going and whatever and even just like get up and lay on the couch and drink like sparkling water until I fall back asleep later tonight, you know? I do, I very much do. It's all just like, it's all inclusive. Yeah. It's really all inclusive. That is a really good point about people wanting to stay asleep. I mean, you know where my mind goes when we talk about this stuff, it just zooms up and down and it is kind of a metaphor for people choosing how to engage with reality and, you know, I guess if it is anxiety inducing or more comfortable in your mind to knock it out of bed and just like stay asleep as much as possible, I do understand how that could be someone's perspective.

But yeah, I think if you keep pushing with that feeling, you push through it and you get to exactly what you're talking about. Like there's something, oh.

Oh, watch out.

You all right?

Yeah. (laughing)

But, God, I don't--

That happens to me on every train I ever go on. As soon as I stand up, I hit my head on the railing. Yeah. But you know, I think that with the anxiety inducing kind of, kind of, that dark feeling or being in that dark space and falling asleep and having these naps or whatever you call, you know, something like, if you could just take, I think, now you're more, you frequent this thought in this that we're talking about more than I do, so I'm an adolescent when it comes to this kind of stuff. I'm still working on it and still, I mean, as we all are, but like in those dark spaces, if you're taking a nap and you're in your happy place, what's so different than that happy place being your reality, right?

That's what we're talking about.

That's kind of why I'm, yeah, that's what we're kind of getting at, I think, is like, 'cause I've been in the dark place.

Yeah.

I mean, the super major dark place is like pitch black before, you know, it doesn't happen often, thank God, but, you know, thank myself. (laughing)

Ah, you got it.

You know, like, it's like taking that feeling of when you're asleep or when you're just like, even in that thin layer of sleep, where you're still conscious of doors opening and closing or the cat walking or whatever, the dog nail hitting the floor. And like, but you can find your happy place and what's so different than from taking that and applying it to like, when you wake up.

Exactly, I think that's the function, I mean, at least for the past year of my life, the relationship between that state and the things you experienced there and the practicality of bringing it into this dimension, not just for like as a magic trick, like, hey, let me imagine something and pull it down or let me imagine a way of feeling in that state that kind of like in between state and bring it here, but like, this is a real place as much as it's a dream. And I mean, it's real in the sense that duality is real.

It's just as real as you laying your head down and escaping into a whole nother world.

Exactly, so it shouldn't be a dividing line. I think it--

When you first wake up sometimes, like if you broke up with someone and you don't remember that that happened.

Right, yeah, like you wake up.

You wake up when you feel all good and then like two minutes and a half.

Fuck, I'm like, oh wait, and then you're like, oh wait, fuck, I forgot that I'm like in turmoil. And like, that I'm like, I forgot that I'm like depressed. Right, my bad, oops, let me just, let me just go back into my depression.

That's so real, dude, oh my God. That's happened to me once or twice before.

Right, and what is that, right? That's a choice that is being made on a level of remembrance. And I think also what comes with that is sometimes people judge that. They go, oh well, why would I, why would I do that? Why would I choose to put myself back in a state that's, but you learn, and then what you're learning is when you do that stuff is that, oh, I did something there. Do I wanna do it again? Can I do it again? And then you just kind of lock onto the things that actually feel like fulfilling.

Dude, totally, I think that that's, I broke up with the girl once, or actually she broke up with me on our anniversary. It was our third year, our three year anniversary.

Ah, jaggers.

I know, daggers, right? I mean, this is a long, it's a long time ago now. But when that all happened, you know, I was fine, like emotionally, and I was stable, 'cause I had already kind of accepted this was like a, this could definitely be our reality, was like not being together anymore. But there was a time in the middle of the relationship where I was even younger, and I didn't have that grounding thought, or I didn't know what the fuck was going on, 'cause I was a loose cannon, dude.

Right, totally.

My nipples were hard, and I was just like super lost in this world. Like, I didn't know what to think. I didn't, you know, I was still figuring out myself, my body, my future. I didn't also, I didn't want to see my future or anything like that. So we got into this part of our relationship that was super toxic, and it was kind of like throwing, throwing shit at each other back and forth.

Twin flaming, we call it.

And it was, yeah, what was it called?

Twin flaming.

Twin flaming.

Let's win it after, keep going.

Okay, so then I remember losing myself, basically. And I've talked about this story with a lot of--

You call him a police fit.

Well, so I like, I felt like shit, and I lost myself, and I felt like we were still together technically on paper, whatever the fuck that means. But we were taking like breaks, or we weren't seeing each other, and I felt lost, and I was like, what would I possibly do without this person?

Right.

And I was so young, so funny to think about it now. But I remember coming out of that relationship and telling myself like, I'm never gonna feel like that again. I'm never gonna feel like that again, and I haven't ever felt like that again. And I've dated people, I've been in relationships since then, and we've broken up and stuff like that. But I've always, I took that scenario, and just was like, what do I like least about this situation?

There you go.

And I just like, I think I wrote it down, and like, you know, spoke to my mom about it a bunch, and I was like--

You wrote it down physically.

I physically wrote it down.

Yeah, it's very important, I just want to touch on that.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's super important, and I actually didn't even realize the importance of--

Yeah, and you never do it when you're doing it until after, and then you go after. And then you take it seriously.

Or even until it becomes a pattern, and then you're like, you're just doing it, and you're like, this is very important to me. I need to do this. But I walked away from that being like, I'm never gonna lose myself like that ever again, because the outcome is never gonna be good, and you're in full control of that. And I think that I started the relationship already lost, so that you know what I mean?

Yeah, it's like, and it happens, and then you slip into codependence, and it stops being a fraying, expanding. The beauty of it can get sucked into that, and then it can become heavy for either or or both, and then I was just talking about this yesterday with some friends that when things get heavy, you become so vulnerable and susceptible to other energy, almost from anywhere, and then you're just, like you said, you lose yourself, you're running some other script.

Yeah, oh my God. - You're just tons, though. You're in some way else's move.

I love that too, what you just said about susceptible towards other energy.

Yeah, man, that's, it's like some, yeah.

Well, because-- - It's like the wind blows, and you're like, yo, fuck off, man, what the fuck, dude, you know this fuck? This whole life, dude, it's just, this whole thing isn't working anymore.

Exactly, too. - And you know what? My old drummer told me once, he was so funny that he said this 'cause he was like the least happy of him all sometimes, but like, he was like a little, he's a grouch, but he's, you know, he's great. And he said to me, he goes, when you get angry, it's just your brain malfunctioning.

Yeah, so just, you know, so-- - Spin it out.

Yeah, you're just spinning out. And like, unless you like being out of control, like, delete that shit.

That's a thing, and that's very important unless you like being out of control. Some people wanna run that program to learn things, but if you're running it unconsciously, that's not something anyone really enjoys because you're subservient to, and it's you at the end of the day, this was very important about this, but that's why when you said you lost yourself with this implies, and this is incredibly important, is that you knew who you were, you had a base, you were like, oh, this is who I am.

I thought I knew who I was, at least, or something. - Well, but at a deep level, there was something to you where you're like, my bearings are off from how I know I am supposed to feel.

Right.

You know, we fine tune that over the course of a life. That's part of the fun of this world is like, we put ourselves through these physically tangible, real experiences because it's fucking awesome, but we take on a lot of other things as we're doing it. What's interesting though, as we wake up to the fact that we're running the whole fucking show, each of us individually and collectively, but individually, our own show, all the time, and that we can actually produce it, write it, direct it, and then hear, act in it, that's incredibly powerful because then you do get to choose the scenarios you would like to experience.

In your desires, stop seeming like these things that are incongruent with what your circumstances are 'cause you're using your sensory input and you're like, oh shit, I can actually, what?

Cool. - Yeah.

And you just accept it and you're like, great, that's gonna happen, amazing. So like-- - Exactly.

Yeah, man. And then it's just a matter of really getting in touch with what you want and you don't have to know the end. Right now, you just have to-- - No, you don't. And you may not. But you said, you did say yesterday when we were hanging, you were like, oh yeah, you can picture even as far as the end of the road, or whatever. The end destination or whatever. If you want, you know-- - You can.

You can. - If you know it, yeah. You can. - And I do, and I told you I do. And I was like, and it's like, I'm not afraid of that. Like, you know, I've never, like, you know, okay, so before I play a show, it's like, I get nervous, you know? And I've looked into all kinds of different things to like help with my nerves before shows. Like, all the way to like pills to fucking, you know, it's like, there's pills, there's alcohol. But being somebody who's like, like, I do drink a little bit, I do not touch pills because I've been recovering for a long time and I just like, don't mess with that.

Sure.

So I was like, you know, I also am not the best at meditating.

Okay, let's-- - But, yeah.

Continue and then we'll talk.

But I'll just say, the meditating thing, I think, it comes in in that nap form. - That's what I'm saying.

But I never sleep. It's never like, I'm sleeping. It's never like, I'm in a deep sleep snoring, fucking drooling on my pillow. - You have to go to sleep.

I'm fucking just like, I'm like the thinnest layer of blanket and of thought and just like dream or whatever.

You understand you can implant anything and you can accept yourself in that state.

That's what it is, I'm accepting myself.

But like with anything. - Yeah.

Like truly anything. So I would try this-- - 20 minutes or 2 an hour, dude.

Do you like the anxiety before shows?

So I've been trying to like kind of push that into my more recent thing is kind of pushing that into like, I don't, no, I need to answer your question.

Okay, there's the question. So what I would try is a few things. But one would be is to imagine a scene where in that state, right, you already found the state, which is amazing, you don't understand, that's like the secret gateway that people usually are like, "Where is it, how I fell asleep?" And it's like, you know, if you can maintain that, that's very powerful. As you're doing that, it's so interesting. I'm gonna try to disregard the visions of these fucking, okay, hold on. Basically, in that state, what you would do is imagine the feeling or a scene, let's start with the scene for you. Can you visualize when you're in that state?

Yeah, totally. - Okay, great. So what you would imagine is a scene, I would choose after the show, where you go, "Holy shit."

Right, that guy. - I didn't get anxious at all. Oh my God, what was that? If you can lock onto that feeling and a very short scene, like I said, that expression, that feeling, you don't even need to see it. You could just hear it internally, or you could hear someone say something to you like, "Holy shit, that show is amazing." But embedded in them saying that would be that you weren't anxious before, try that. You basically can implant and accept anything you want. Where we often kind of get tripped up is we try to do it like we go to the moment of, we go, "Oh, I want to go to the moment of not being anxious," but what we're really doing is focusing on the moment of being anxious.

So if you go past it and it implies, it's already happening, end of show, you're looking back and go, "Holy shit, I wasn't anxious."

That's that whole, okay, so every, yeah, it's like every time I play a show, I knock it out of the park. Whether we have technical difficulties, or my voice cracks, or whatever.

No, it's best. - It fucking every time. It's like, yeah, high five. It's like every time I walk off stage and people are like, "Dude, what the fuck?"

Yeah, exactly.

Like I have people that have known me, people that don't know me, that come up to me after shows that are like, "I mean, I knew you were good. I didn't know you were legit."

Yeah.

And I'm like, "Wow, I mean, yeah, that's great. My heart's racing in a good way."

Yeah, the best way.

In an anxious way, but in like a whatever. But then there's also like, when I smoke weed, it's the exact same thing, so check it out. I get nervous before I play a show. I play a show, everything goes fucking great. As soon as I start singing my first lyric, I black out in a good way. I mean, not in like a drunk high school person way.

Totally, you're in the groove.

I'm in the groove, and then it's like last song, boom, finish, crowd goes crazy. I walk off and I'm like, awake again. And I'm like, and my bass player's like, "Bro, we fucking just played the best set of our life, dude." And I'm like, "Oh my God, that feels so good." And you know, but when I smoke weed, it's like, I've been smoking weed since I was like 13, man. And I still, like to this day, man, I still get anxious every time I smoke weed. I love it, I smoke weed every day.

Interesting.

And I get high every day because it's super creative.

You still get anxious?

I still get anxious, do the first 20 minutes of me hitting weed every time. And I've been told, this is because I started so early.

I started, when did you start?

I was 13, man. I was 13 when I started smoking weed.

Daily.

Daily.

Wow, no, I didn't start daily till 15.

Yeah, my dad was eight, my dad grew pot. I mean, my dad grew pot my whole life. So I was like, I was like around. I mean, I'm from California, Northern California. It's like, it was fucking everything. All my friends, I had my friends.

I'm sorry to understand why we've become very, very, very fast friends.

Yeah, exactly.

So I'm holding up, yeah.

And I was, I mean, I was dropping acid every weekend when I was from 15 to basically 20, yeah, something like that. And it was like, very a part of my life.

Yeah, I really think of, I didn't think anything of it. But my point is, is that when I smoke weed, when I smoke weed still today, I get this anxiety. And like, I've been trying to just do this thing where I'm like, every time I smoke weed, I'm like, okay, shit's a little anxious. What the fuck is going on? Why do you feel like this? Because I'm like, well, maybe I shouldn't go out and do a meeting right now.

Oh, it happens to you?

Maybe I shouldn't go out and, well, it's not as severe as I'm maybe making a sound.

No, no, I get what it is.

I'm like, oh, maybe I shouldn't go to Whole Foods to go grocery shopping now because I'm just a little bit too high. And I'm always just a little bit too high.

No, they're gonna know.

Yeah, or like, you know, or maybe, you know, whatever. I might fucking go get a coffee and knock the cream over. And then it's like this whole thing. And I'm like, and people are like, oh, what's going on with that dude?

He's high.

That never happens. Like, nobody ever knocks the cream over. And so then I'm, but I'm starting to just like, let myself feel high. It's weird 'cause I've like, I've been doing this my whole life.

Yeah, feel you.

And so now I'm like retraining myself on how to smoke weed. Like, I'm 27 and I'm like, retraining myself on how to get high again. So I'm like letting myself just be high. Every time I smoke weed, nothing happens. I'm totally fine.

Yeah.

Nobody ever gets hurt. I never get hurt. I never get embarrassed. I always know how to speak.

It's cool, it's fine.

I never lose my motor skills. Everything's good. So why do I trip?

I don't, I shouldn't. It's all in my head. It's all just part of the fucking, it's all just part of who I am or how I work.

Let me also add this dimension to we, I've been smoking and consuming cannabis now for 22 years, pretty much 21 regularly. She will show you shit that's below the surface of your conscious mind.

She being marijuana.

Yeah, it's females. The female part of the plan that comes, there's no question about it, facts. And, you know, she'll show you everything. So when things percolate up to the top, like this side. - Which is why I smoke. Honestly.

No, yeah, it's incredible.

That's why I smoke.

Yeah, I understand. 'Cause like, why would you otherwise?

Yeah.

But here's the thing with things.

I don't smoke to numb myself.

You're learning right now. No, you can't because that's the worst thing in the world.

No, but people try to.

No, I know it's the dumbest thing.

Yeah, or at least they say they do.

That's why I believe Indica's are, I've gotten far too popular relative to see. There's also like cultivation reasons too, but people want the kind of sedative opium-like body highs, which are great, don't get me wrong.

Oh, dude, have you just tried percocet?

Yeah, it's like just kidding. Don't do that.

It's the other way around. I think that's gonna be a big thing that's gonna help with the opioid stuff.

So you're saying, what, what, Indica's?

Yeah, just the proper balance. When people really can start growing and they grow their own plants, they'll see that they can imbue the healing properties and consciousness into the plants.

Oh, dude, it's gonna change life.

Yeah, it's pretty incredible. But here's what she does is she'll bring, she'll percolate up to the top, fears, doubts, worries, anxiety, shadow material.

We're talking about weed, everybody.

Yeah, we're talking about weed, not a physical person. But up to the top, and as it gets there, right, you have an opportunity in terms of how you want to deal with it. If you run away from it, if you engage with the thoughts of, oh, yeah, I'm gonna knock the cream over, or this person's gonna come up, or I have to have a difficult conversation, or there's anything, it strengthens it. It will maybe push it back down the surface, you can enjoy the rest of the hive. But you can take it for what it's worth and go, let me dive, thanks, babe, let me dive into this shit.

Yeah, head first, I think.

Let me just figure out what this shit is. Like, for real, she gives you everything you want. There's a reason that Sadhu's in India.

Or everything you need, 'cause you don't know that you want it sometimes, I feel like, but I get what you're saying.

That's a really good point.

I get what you're saying, for sure.

In a way, it's subconsciously wanted, but it's true. The stuff you needed and didn't know that you needed often, which is incredible, it's divine feminine consciousness.

It is.

It's the creator and the destroyer.

I love my feminine side.

Yeah, well. - I gotta say, it's the best. - It's the best.

It keeps me going, yeah, for sure.

Especially for men who are in tune with their feminine energies in this day and age. Dude, I was raised by pretty much all women.

Same, yeah, same. - Yeah, it's like a thing.

Yeah, it's a thing, man. It's a fucking thing. - But that's totally it. I mean, what you're saying is totally, it's totally it because it's like every time, when people say they don't smoke weed or they don't, that's great, I totally get it, 100%. Like, you just wanna be pure raw form. Like, that's fucking great. I have never really tried stopping. I take breaks here and there. I don't really ever feel like I need to stop. It's, I'm such a lightweight. I take one hit and I'm fucking blasted off and reflecting on my last 10 hours, you know, or 24 hours. But that's exactly it. Is that like, I don't smoke to numb myself.

I don't smoke to get into this. I don't smoke like this whole image of like a bong head who just sits at home and plays video games all day and eats the cabinet clean and just like fucks off all day is like very like, I've, I have seen that when I was in like high school.

Yeah, when you're young and that's like not a thing anymore. Like most pot heads that I know are incredibly productive, kind and successful in their own right. Like it's, you know, and for me, it's like when I smoke at the end of the day, at the end of the day, which is when I smoke, I mean, I just hit your joint, but I mean like, and it's like 10 a.m. But like big deal, you know, like I reflect, man. And like some, you know, as humans, we all, if that's what we are, we all go through like the day, like partially unaware or saying things that were just like reacting and we're just like whatever.

And when I take a hit of weed, I literally will think back at, oh man, I could have just worded that better to that person or I could have just, I could have just said something nice, you know, nice instead of, you know, dickish to that person. And I'll do better next time. Yeah, like that's, I mean, not word for word. That's what I think every time, but. No, but you have an awareness of it. It also the feeling capacity that weed opens you up to is also incredibly. Oh, it's crazy. Yeah, I mean, it's like, that's insane. People are like, it's an aphrodisiac. I'm like, yeah, sure, it is. But do you know why?

'Cause it's like basically opening up your entire, like, heartache. It's opening your tendrils. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like, you can feel the dude dripping off of your tendrils and that you didn't even know that you had in the first place. Like you take one hit a weed or two hits a weed and all of a sudden you're like an octopod. Yeah, exactly. Swimming in this crazy world. Yeah, man, it's the fucking best. So let's talk about some music stuff. Yeah, dude, 100%. How did you get started making music? I've been making music since I was a kid. Like I was in, it goes from like first grade, drum set, middle school, guitar, bass, you know.

Bass is implied with guitar. Yeah, yeah. You're really doing it, right? You're like, oh, it's just the guitar, but lower and cooler in the toe. Harder on your fingers, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like more spread out. So yeah, I just, I got started really young. It's basically all I've been doing since I was in my whole life. I mean, it's, I played sports, you know, I've done this and that, whatever, but music has always been the thing. But when I was in, I was always playing in like punk bands and stuff like that. Like garagey, just like rock and roll, thrashy bands with my friends. Like, and then in, this is actually so similar to you.

Boy, you were saying outside before we started. But when I was in, when I was in high school, I actually, I went to, I went to four different high schools. And one of the, or two of those schools were continuation schools, which if you're unfamiliar with what a continuation school is, it's a school for people that can't handle real school. And some of those people are like dropout risks or they're, you know, juvenile hall risks, or they're just fucking weird kids that just like don't want to go to school, which was me in that case.

Which is totally like, not weird.

Totally not. - It's totally not weird. And you know, the more that I talked about it and get older, you know, it's like, I dropped out of high school and I never went to, I never went to college. But it's because I had music and I always knew what I want. And I'm not recommending that to anybody.

No, but you held the faith and new internally.

I had the faith, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I had faith in myself and I also, whatever. My point, where I'm going with this is like, one of the high schools that I went to actually taught reason.

Wow. - Which is, which is a digital audio workstation. And it's, it was like a reason two or three. And it was this dude, this dubstep, like house producer dude who moved to the States and got married into the States. And he had this, this job at the school where it was the music class, quote unquote music class. And he was teaching us how to like basically make beats.

Wow. - And.

At high school.

In high school. - That's crazy.

And so I took that and I kind of buried it deep and never really, never really surfaced until I was like, well, actually I guess it surfaced pretty immediately because I actually like, I didn't know it, but that was like sophomore year. And then junior year I was playing in a band and my, it was just the two piece and I started making electronic music. And I started, that's when I was like, this is in the midst of like kind of like my drug, my first drug experience and psychedelic and party, you know. So I started making electronic music and I would go on to do electronic music full time tour and play and put out music and collaborate with people around the world from like, yeah, senior year high school or whatever, right before I dropped out and moved to San Francisco, so like 20, 24, like till I was 24.

And I was just making electronic music, you know. And I slowly developed this kind of career and teaching myself how to play all these different instruments and producing myself and making the, you know, I would say that it started off as beats, like just beats, I don't know, pop kind of beats, you know, adolescent kind of vibes, like you just kind of hitting around on like a drum machine to like very forward thinking electronic music that was like kind of, it was danceable for sure, but it was also like, I was way into sound design and like synths and everything using reason and Ableton.

Making shit sound cool.

Yeah, making shit sound cool dude and doing found sounds and stuff like that. And then like I, yeah, I basically did, I did that for so long, man. And then I found myself actually and no, I'm not pointing guns or I don't even have a gun, but I'm just saying like, I got locked into a scene in my early 20s that was pretty unhealthy for me mentally. Like through that scene and I ended up-

You were touring.

I was touring, I was playing a lot of shows and I would do some, there was like no shame to drugs at all, but it was way too druggy for me.

Yeah.

It was way too like, it was way too niche for me where I would play these shows and I would feel like I didn't actually, I'd be getting high with these people and I wouldn't actually be connecting with these people because it was-

Wow, that sucks.

And that's the worst and that can happen anywhere.

Of course, of course.

And so that's why I'm saying no shame to drugs. It was just like, it was just that drugs played a factor in these two people me being one and these X being the other and less not connecting. And so I kind of had this and then I had like, my cousin passed away and a bunch of shit kind of happened with my personal life.

What years is this about?

This is like 2000, what is this, 2016?

That's what I was thinking.

Yeah, maybe 2015, '16 or something like that 'cause I moved here in New York, 2017. And I came out here and visited and met Denise for the first time actually in 2000, in the summer of 2017 and then went up state with the Wolfenland boys and then I made the video for my first single.

What year is this, 2017?

This is all of the, the EDM crackle started crumbling. 2016, I'm saying. I had an agent, I had a manager. Things were doing really well. Everything was like on track to do, I mean, I could probably be making more money now if I would've stuck with the DJ routine. He's shaking his head like, yeah.

You would've, it's fine.

But I like, I just was, I just didn't feel right. And I also had like, you know, one thing that also kept ringing through my head was like, I played this show once and there was this guy from my hometown who was a legendary guitarist and he was at the show and he came to me backstage and he goes, it's cool you DJ, dude, because I know that you're a real musician. And I remember being like, ah. Oh. (laughs) But I am, you know, I do play, I do play all the instruments, I do it all, you know? So I started feeling this like huge disconnect from like my like path and how I started, whatever.

You noticed you were, you know, you're never really off course, but you noticed the course you wanted to be on was a little bit.

Yeah, which is fine.

Totally fine.

It's actually perfect.

Dude, it's perfect. It was the perfect time to segue. I was like, at least I wasn't like, you know, if I was like Diplo or something and I was like, listen you guys, I'm gonna start writing indie rock music. That'd be a little harder for people to understand, but lo and behold, I like switched my whole career, dropped the name, started going by my own name, Emmet Kai. And I started playing shows and recording music as me.

As you.

As me.

What a novel kind of thing.

I know. And all of my fans from the previous project just fucking transferred over like a bus path.

It's your energy.

Yeah. And they were like, dude, I just wanna ride with this dude 'cause it's just good music. And then I befriended the Wolf and Lamb crew love people easily, they're, those, I'm good, those, you know, the disco heads, fucking house heads, whatever, which is like total foreign to me. Like still super foreign to me.

Yeah.

But they like took me in and Denise love you. You know, like they, you know, and whatever. And I came here and visited, went to the airport and bought a one way back for three months later. And I was like, I'm just gonna move to New York and whatever. And so I basically, I've dedicated my life to music of all shapes and forms. And like that electronic music still comes out when I produce other records for people.

Of course.

It's, and now it's starting to kind of show face in my new records.

Right.

I feel you, man, that's you integrate it.

The identity crisis is beautiful if you just accept it. And you just go like, let's just fucking ride this wave for a little bit.

Yeah. And then what you come, what comes out of it is this holistic kind of like integrative expression. Like the music that is made is a reflection of what we're either connecting to or what we're emanating consciously.

Totally.

So if you really like understand the function, and it's like, you know this from instruments, it's not like you learn the guitar and then you learn the piano and you forget how to play a guitar. It's like, you know how to do them all. And.

I will say. (laughing)

Sometimes.

If I'm working on music, I'm sure this happens to you too. But like sometimes you're working on music and you, and it just sounds like shit for the first two hours and you're like, did I forget? Or did I max out? I think I might have maxed out.

No, I don't, can I tell you?

I hope Whole Foods is hiring because.

You're done, you think you're limited?

I think I might have maxed out.

So I, truthfully, I used to feel like that almost every time I would make, not that they would all start out horribly. The past eight months, every time I make music, maybe I'll get that for like two minutes. I don't know, I feel like I have infinite music. I feel like there's literally no--

There's infinite.

I mean, that just conceptually, I mean like, I can get inspired by a fucking anything and I'll be like, that's a whole song.

Yeah.

That's 10, that could remix that fucking 10 times.

Right, totally. Dude, like we were in the bagel shop the other morning.

Right, the Michael Jackson.

The Michael Jackson.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, what's that song called again?

What was it?

"Human Nature", "Human Nature", "Human Nature".

Yeah. ♪ Da-da-da-da-da-da ♪

Why, and like, I heard that and I was like, dude, you just take these fucking chords and you slow it down just so even more or speed it up as I'm throwing a punk beat over it. And it's like an indie song that's like, ready to go on, you know, the radio.

You know, that's the thing, like, also that I think it's easy to forget, it's not easy to forget, but some people do, like, I was watching this, when I was in Laurel Canyon.

That's in LA.

In LA.

Where you've been spending the last--

I spent like a month from January and February and I was learning the guitar, I was kind of unlocking it and I was watching this documentary series that was on Hulu and then it was expiring in like two days so I had a like jamming in called Soundbreaking and it was about the history of recorded music. So it started at like Les Paul with like these big ass like recording machines and it would show people how to do it and it went all the way up through like hip hop and shit. It was amazing, I'm gonna try to download it. It was like six episodes like hour long, it was pretty intense but there was the Beatles, this Beatles episode 'cause George Martin produced this whole thing so like the whole documentary series.

They were, this Beach Boys Beatles thing that was going on, they would listen to each other's albums and be like yo, that thing they did there, we could do that but like this way differently and was this constant like, it wasn't just like sampling but they were like bouncing off each other and getting inspired.

You're saying that this was happening in the Beatles writing sessions?

The Beatles and the Beach Boys would, they were making music the same. So Brian Wilson's there on fucking acid and the piano and the sand and this fucking house and it's like what the fuck is going on. The stories are incredible. Then you got the Beatles tripping balls and fucking going deep with sampling, like primary sampling techniques with the--

They do the melitron, right?

Yeah.

Or if they play maybe I'm wrong.

So they, what they did do is they--

For a sampler though, right?

This is how they did it. It was a mixing desk and they would sample on, I think it might have been a melitron but they had a tape deck and they would sample from the radio, this orchestral stuff.

Yeah and they would play it.

Play it live mixing it in like it was an instrument.

Right, right.

It was fucking nuts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So like yeah, just crazy shit like that was blowing my mind but they were basically bouncing off each other like album for album 'cause they'd hear some shit that they did and they'd be like yo, we have to like, we just kept expanding it 'cause like the technology was, so now we find ourselves in an era and I remember 'cause like I literally got the first version of Ableton and to see where it came from 'cause I went to Berkeley right when it came out, they made us get MacBook Pros as part of like tuition and made us get Ableton. To see just where everything has come from when I started just on PCs with shit to where we are now, like if you can't be inspired by the technology, it's your hand, like it's not that, it's not thing.

It's some tuning up thing you need to do 'cause like this is infinite. The day I forget that I can't sit at a guitar and come up with something that changes my mood, that's the day that I'll start questioning like, is this maybe I've hit the end of this but like--

But you're never going to do that, that's never gonna happen.

Never.

Because the time that being went thick enough, I'm trying to be as complicated as possible. Like we were talking about the new "Tame Impala" album, which is fucking fantastic for everybody who's listening. But like this record is also so simple and so well put together, it's so simple like--

You know, I could sit at home and one thing that I actually hate doing is listening to music and then trying to write music. It gets very like it just kind of, you're trying too hard.

Separate them, let them simmer. Let them simmer and yeah, come back out.

Yes, you know, it's one thing if you're working on a record for somebody and they send me a track and they go, I want to sound like this and I go--

Okay, I understand where you're kind of coming from on that but with my own music if I'm like, if I listen to the "Tame Impala" song like a thousand times in a day and I'm like, can't wait to get home and remit. I'm gonna butcher it and it's--

You're trying, you're trying.

Yeah, I've kind of tried too hard.

And it's like, it's simple and he's just, he's just letting things roll. He's just letting things kind of, just kind of go, you know?

So good.

So you're never going to forget, or you're never going to stop, you're never gonna max out. You're never gonna cap it. You're never gonna like, run out of the wells, never gonna run dry.

No.

Yeah, you don't have to worry about that.

I think another important thing here too, what you touch on is like being able to be diverse in your musical expression is critical if you'll naturally have it coming out. If your styles are changing or you have different components, don't judge that. Don't try to conform into a fucking thing.

Yeah, yeah. 'Cause it's like--

I need there to beat drums. Like, real, I was like, I need to play drums on every song.

Oh yeah, you made it.

And then I just spent the whole fucking summer or that whole month playing drums. I wasn't recording anything else. I was just like trying to nail down drums, getting frustrated, you know, I was getting frustrated, whatever, walking outside, taking a lap, coming back, playing drums, taking another lap. Like it was just like this, it wasn't a failure. It was a total blessing. I totally realized something great. And I came back to New York with all these recordings and stuff of like, quote unquote failures that ended up making their way into like--

Of course, you got a lot of drums. You just delivered a shit with amazing drums yourself.

I also, I got a lot of crazy stuff out of me.

Drums will do that.

Yeah.

Drums will get you connected right down to the root.

I got a lot of negativity and craziness out of me. And by that last week of being in California, I was like, I can't wait to get back to New York. Like this is too, this is too much. Or it's been enough. I've been here for long enough. I'm ready to go back to New York. Now I'm like, I want to go back to California, but--

Yeah, I get into the feeling so they go and they haven't flown.

Yeah, I mean, my point is, I guess it's just that like, I went into it with too strict of intention and like I didn't let my pits breathe. I didn't, you know, I didn't air. I wanted, I needed to air out my shorts, but I couldn't.

Yeah, yeah, too tight man, too focused on the thing. That's, it's constrictive and it's okay. And one thing I'll say about that, is 'cause when we get into that and we can imagine that state of tightness, it's super important not to judge or react to that and be like, it's a bad thing. Like you realized ultimately like, whoa, what a fucking blessing and gift that I had this experience I can retrospectively look at. Now, the really mind-blowing shit is you can do that in the moment. When you fucking recognize it, guess what happens? It pops open and you can start to appreciate it earlier. You're still gonna do this shit, right?

This is a script we're inevitably playing out so you might as well fucking enjoy it if you did it. Or if you really don't like it, we also have the ability to change this shit. It's not like you're walking to some old imagine this thing. I did this thing and I only have to play it. It's like, that sounds dumb. Like, it's like not what I--

No, you're creating those walls.

Yeah, and it's like maybe don't do that because if you do, you're gonna get stuck in this rigid state of mind that's not gonna feel maybe the way you wanna feel. And again, that comes back to this being a choice and pre-selecting how you would like to feel not all of the time because you can't always nail that but enough of the time that it allows you to grow in the ways that you feel you need to grow, to be the person you feel you are.

And also just I can't just let you just chill the fuck out.

Chill the fuck out. Chill out. It's never serious.

Dude, it's just like, and I get frustrated. Bro, I get frustrated all the time. It's still like, I get frustrated. I was frustrated this morning. I mean, like, you know, whatever, but I just chill the fuck out and then even chill the fuck out.

Yeah.

But like, you were telling me that like you, you went to Berkman School music and like, now I hope that I'm not getting too deep if you want this certain kind of chord.

No, no such thing.

I have a few friends that went to Berkman School music, and their stories were like, if you don't drop out.

This is everyone's classic part. This is the meme. It's just a meme. John Mayer, other people. This is a meme. It's just a meme.

I don't really drop out or finish that. I think the point is that there's like a meme. You went to Berkman School music. Did you feel confined in those?

That's taking so much acid in mushrooms, dude.

Okay, so you were expanding.

Dude.

You were expanding your mind just thought, did you graduate?

Dude, yeah.

It took me five years, but yeah, yeah. Lost my mind in between there for three months. Legit, legit. Like legit had to drop out. Like whole big, yeah, I've talked about it a lot, but recalibrate and all that. I used to feel for, I bought into that meme for probably like five years, six years when I was making music after it. I didn't even make that much music right when I graduated for like three, four years, and then I really got back into it in New York. But it was very expensive in the sense that I don't want to say, I mean, I don't have any regrets and a lot of things played out the way they were supposed to, but looking back, I could have pulled the trigger on making music quicker.

And I'm perfectly where I'm supposed to be, but no regrets on it, but, yeah, but, but. Yeah, I did, thanks man. But the truth is, is that I didn't click into recognizing that what I learned at Berkeley was, it's so fucking critical right now. I consider all the psychedelics, all of my other approach to music, teaching myself now. Now I'm like, oh my God, I can quickly look at a chart and know what all those chords are. I can think about a music analogy where if I'm saying there's a dissonant chord, I can actually know what the notes are to be harmonious. I can understand polyrhythms, different fucking microtones, or I remembered it all.

So yeah.

So you just said things that, like, I'm polyrhythms. I haven't caught up polyrhythms in so long. But like, you know, so you're being flooded with education. You're being like, or no, I guess it's a question. Are you, were you feeling you were flooded with education or were you feeling like?

I bought into other people's memes. That's what it was. So basically what happens when you go to a music school like a conservator which Berkeley bought, they hit you with a very regimented and they do a pretty good job of not like totally making it like school, but like I had classes called ear training where literally you have to train your ears to identify different chords, notes, steps, all these things, I fucking hated it because it was super intense and at first I wasn't naturally good at it and there'd be savants. We're just like, E, A, C, and I'm like, fuck this. Diminished seventh and I'm like, fuck out of here.

Yeah, and it's amazing and I have friends who like that and now like, and I don't even judge it. I think part of the process that I didn't realize at the time is discovering that, like, how to do that and what chords sound like, what, that's fun. If you make it something like you have to read the book at school. So a lot of people react to that negatively while they're at Berkeley. Especially if they're really getting in touch with I think is the real essence of music is this emotional felt quality. They're not gonna really teach you that at Berkeley. You'll learn that in the ensembles, you'll learn that in certain ways but you can't teach that.

So people go the other way.

You're saying they can't teach what?

Like how to get in touch with the soul of music. You can't read, you can teach someone like, by doing something around them, but you can't like write it down necessarily and get like, this is what music is.

And if I can just form with that too. I mean, like we're all, I feel like--

Everyone has capacity, yeah. Like every once in a while, you beat some like, you know, some fucker that's like, I don't really like music and you're like, dude.

Please don't kill me, don't murder me.

Yeah, are you a sociopath?

Yeah.

I don't know what's happening here. But no, I think that, yeah, like even if you're like, if you're like snapping to the beat and you're off beat you can't even, you're still feeling something.

That's the point.

Right, so we're like, that's organic. But like the ear training stuff is like, that's the kind of stuff that like not everybody has right off the bat.

No, of course it's crazy. It's like a, and you need to know also, there's, what's weird about ear training is, there's this relationship between the note and the frequency and then what you're hitting that you know as A. Like that's a left brain process there. And it's right, so when you fuse them, it's pretty great. But, so yeah.

You have an image of you having a mental breakdown on L.S. and doing ear training. (laughing)

I gotta get this fucking A minor.

I wasn't though, when I was going, the breakdown was the most beautiful thing, one of the most beautiful things in my life. I wasn't going to school.

Yeah.

But what I'm saying is there's a lot of people who are really in touch with why they became musicians or like they feel compelled to do it. They react a hard 180 and especially if they didn't get successful after dropping out or even when they think there's some relationship like a half to drop out to do it or you know, there's something about Berkeley that'll make you a bad musician. They pivot hard to the other side which is I only want the essence. I only care about the essence, which is totally fine. You could look at any famous rock musician and they're probably only focusing on the essence.

Most of them weren't reading chord charts and knowing that's up however. Yeah, and there's nothing.

I don't even know how to do tabs.

The tabs I still don't fuck with though. Tabs are basically a never dove into any other form than just ears.

So what I started realizing is after school, that's what I did. I dropped everything. I did not fucking think about chords. I barely look at chord charts even when I tried, wouldn't work, so I couldn't do it. So then I dove back into the essence stuff. The thing that originally, I remember the moment I realized like I'm gonna be on a music pack. It was, I had already enrolled in Berkeley. I didn't even know before. It was on a train, an Amtrak train. Had a oxygen eight MIDI controller. One of the first ones, Ableton. And I had made this loop and it was live playing something on the train. I'm like, this is incredible.

I'm like, how this is incredible. I'm like, oh no, like, oh no. So yeah, man, but what I-

This is after you've already gone to school, right?

This was right after I enrolled. So I was just like fucking around with like reason and logic and Ableton all at the same time, rewiring. Right, we spoke about that. Yeah, it's great, it's all good, man. So yeah, it's perfect. Yeah, basically dude, the past like four podcasts are recorded like, there's like construction noise every single time. I just, you know, it is what it is. We're building foundations.

Yeah.

But these are really building some kind of foundation of it.

Exactly, literally.

Yeah, so you put it together. That's what I realized like now, like I recently got very, very into the band Ween. Like super into them. By the way, that show was the most-

There's a lock on your last podcast. I don't know when this podcast can be out, but last one that I heard was right before you-

Oh, dude. And you guys were saying-

Dude.

Some great things about Ween. I'm somewhat unfamiliar with it. I know one of them.

Same, same. That was what happened to me.

Oh.

Holy shit.

You're a jam man.

No, not even close. I don't like jam fans really. I don't even fuck with the dead too heavy. I like the dead 'cause my friends love them. So like I get the wave, but um. Oh, I love, that's the thing I love about the dead. It's the best, the spirit on the collective and the, no, no. And my friends who love the music like more than me when I'm around them, I love the music equally as much. Like I was watching John Mayer kill it on these flanks. I was just like, oh, like I became a huge John Mayer fan just from watching. They made me dude and he's slaying it. It's just fucking good, man. Yeah. Getting where you fucking fit in, man.

Ween though. So this is how I'll tie together the logical music and the, yeah. So I really got into them. It was like, let me look up some of the chords, just the chords 'cause I know how to play the chords of some of my favorite songs. And I kept doing it and I'm like, holy shit. This is the simplest shit ever. There's literally, these songs that are amazing and incredible, there's nothing to them. So then I'd look out, I fucking found the heart of the world by Neil Young when I was 37 years old. I've heard it before but I didn't, dude. That was like, let me look at those. These are simple too.

So what happened?

There's some fucking crazy thing.

You just like, 'cause you don't put it together but my quick understanding of harmony and melodies that I had learned in school became not a laborious, let me think about this thing, but it clicked into place. I'm like, oh my God. I know why this works conceptually and intellectually, but I can feel it working in these other ways. So I just kind of link those and I realize like for someone who's learning guitar, you can't always be like, just feel it.

Just feel it, bro. Just fucking feel it. Yeah, it's no big deal, just feel it. And like you can on one level, but if you just say, hey, here's how you play a C, here's how you play a G.

That's what I was just gonna say. Like you can't hand somebody who's never fucking played guitar before and just be like, just feel it out, bro.

You can't even just the dick.

Yeah, just feel it out. And then like, you know, they don't get it and you're like, just keep going, bro.

You gotta show them some shit.

Show them something.

Yeah man, show them just a little bit. Give them a taste and then they'll just be able to cook their own meal of the day. Like, you know, and especially if they're fucking in love with it too. I think that the most important thing is that like, you gotta just, you gotta just keep going with it and just keep trying new shit, you know? But it's like at the end of the day, man, like, you could hand me all the digital software to make music on or whatever in the world, but I'm still gonna pick up my guitar.

I miss it when it's over. - Yeah. I really miss it. Right now, I'm happy.

Well, you just got a real nice one. You were saying the other day. You just bought like a $1,200 or like a $4,000 or something.

I think like retail, like when this thing was brand new, it was probably like a 35, $3,700 guitar.

That's a fucking gift, dude. And then the price kept dropping. It was the craziest. I couldn't believe what was happening. I just accepted it. I didn't react. It was like, yo, if I start reacting.

That's gift, yeah.

Thank you.

Roll with it.

Oh my God. And it's just the way it sounds. It's up up state. I'll have it today. I'll bring it back.

Oh, nice. There you go. Yeah. And do you just find yourself just kind of sitting down and just playing acoustic guitar and just vibing out? Because that's what I love to do, man.

Yeah, that's what I do.

And I'll play the same chords for a month, dude.

Then I'll learn one and I'll be like, oh shit. Like I just found what, I don't even know what it is. It's like a C-Ad 9 or something. I'm like, what?

See, you know, you're getting my laugh at this, but I don't even know chords really. Like I know, I know a G, I know an A or something like that.

Yeah, it doesn't matter. You know the shapes? I show people music, like my band, when I show my band how to play my songs, I go, okay, check it out. It goes like this. You see what I'm doing here? You see this? That's what it is. And then I literally will get behind the drums and just show my drummer.

Your James Browning it.

I'm James Browning it, I guess. Yeah, thank the Lord for my guitarist, Kevin, who knows how to translate things better than I do.

Yeah, man.

He's the staple that puts all that shit together.

Yeah, it's the best. That's, we're all James Browning our lives at the end of the day. So you might as well do it with the music too.

Oh, definitely. Oh my gosh, yeah. I mean, yeah, I gave my little brother's guitars before I left. I had two guitars back in California. And when I was like, I'm moving to New York. I gave them a brand new amp. They're younger than me, 12 and 15. And now they're 12 and 15. And I just was like, actually Thaddeus is about to turn 13.

In March.

Wow, he's a great teenage years.

I gave them both their own guitars and an amp to share. And I just was like, just fucking go at it. And you know what, my dad plays it. And I'm like, even better, whoever cares. Guitars don't make noise until you pick it up and play it.

It's possible.

So it's up to you, you're the key holder. The guitar just sits there and just fucking collects dust. So you gotta pick it up and you strum a few chords and it's the best, you know?

Plus, like you were saying yesterday too, man, like those jazz chords, what? Like you think that you can play, there's no wrong. There's no right or wrong. It's only just what sounds good to you.

And if you have a sound in your head and you want it to sound a certain way, don't just work towards it. And then when it comes out, trust me, it's the most satisfying thing ever. And then I think you know this as well. What's even more satisfying than that is when you're just doing it and the shit comes out and you're like, yo, what the fuck was that?

One of the coolest experiences I ever had was was when I was doing electronic music, I was doing, I had a studio on my grandmother's property out in the woods. - Nice.

And it was really nice, man. I keep thinking back to it like now that I'm older and like just like on my own doing my own shit and like it's been like years of me just like on my own figuring out my life. - Yeah.

And now I'm at this point where I'm like, I've kind of, I'm not, I haven't figured anything out, but I'm just at a place where I'm like at peace. And I'm like happy, but I'm also wondering back to like memories and different areas that I've been in and like situations that I've built for myself. And that was probably one of the coolest situations I ever had. I had this full studio, drums, you know, monitors, tons of guitars and bass and keyboard and like all kinds of great shit. And so I was writing this record and it never came out. In fact, I've been wanting to put it out when it's right. I have it still. It's like, it was called, it was actually dude, so funny that I'm bringing this up because it was actually called, the record was called Infinite Fabric.

And it was this record that was all instrumental. It was electronic kind of flying lotus, beats, you know, flying lotus? - Of course.

Yeah, kind of like-- - Yeah.

Stroll projects, I believe.

Yeah, like that kind of shit. It was kind of Dilla S, kind of Lonnie Liston, kind of like this like bridge between electronic music and free beautiful like jazz, you know.

Love it. - Stuff like that.

And it was like the only time that I've ever blacked out while I was recording. - Right.

And it was literally like, this has not happened since, and I'm not pressuring it to come back and happen again. Like you can't force these things. Other great things can happen, but like this was significant 'cause I literally was recording all live instruments, shakers, goat hooves and everything and just making this crazy thing. And it was like this astral projection homage to like astral projecting and called Infinite Fabric, which was like my take on in this, it was my take on in this reality. There's a, it was kind of, I was young, but there's a sliver, there's a slit. Like if we live in this reality and this reality is a fabric, there's a slit that is microscopic, you can't see in everywhere you go.

And you can like stick your hands in as in you're like opening up something, you know, and you can just like hop through that fabric into a whole new reality.

Yeah.

It's the idea of like hanging up a sheet on a clothes line, cutting a hole, like cutting a slit right down the metal and then just hopping through it.

Yeah.

And saying that you're in a whole new--

No, that's how it worked.

That's the Infinite Fabric I think was like, what my point was, right?

Yeah, dude.

Crazy, right. So I blacked out recording drums one day and I had something on loop and I was just looping it and recording a drum piece for an hour straight. Like, and it was fucking crazy. And I was like, whoa, what happened? And I just like stopped and like, I stopped it and played it back. And I was like, this is insane. I gotta put out that record under a dude.

A hundred percent.

Definitely like that kind of stuff. It's crazy how much, and I'm sure you know this, but you write so much in the book.

Oh my god.

Fairly, I put out one EP two years ago through my podcast. People loved it. And yeah, it's still talking about music. And I took it down recently, just 'cause it was under my own name and it was like pretty electronically influenced. There's a couple tracks I'll release. It just was incongruent with the stuff I'm making now and I think the broader impact that'll have in terms of like reach and things like that. It just didn't feel, I'll put it out again. They're finished great songs that I'm totally proud of, but it just didn't feel shit shifted so much in how I was making music and who I was from then that I took it down just from the streaming sites.

And yeah, I'm about to put out a bunch of shit this year. Like a lot, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes it is, yes it is.

I'll release it.

Oh I know, release is the key fucking theme.

When you set your bowels, your urinary tract, whatever it is, release it and let it just dress. Let it dress.

Oh this is amazing. All right, I end with three questions. You'll, we'll do this again, I mean obviously.

I love talking.

Yeah, dude, I also, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of good stuff. I mean, that's my preferred methodology. Three questions, then one open ended question. What's your favorite color?

Lately, my favorite color has been like I really, I'm just gonna say yellow, really strong color for me. Like a, but not like a bright yellow, not like a highlighter yellow.

You did, more muted.

Like soft muted yellow, yeah.

I like it.

I love that and then I also have been really into green, which I've hated green my whole life.

Isn't it weird when you start to love the things.

Yeah, I thought green was like the worst color for so long and now I'm just.

So green is growth, nature, adventure, really expansion.

That's it bro, yeah.

That's fucking it.

I've been thinking about nature and growth and dude like in organic, organic everything. So much recently that I've just been, I've been wearing camo, like you know, not like military camo, my guy. I'm talking like just hunter camo, like we're gonna go, let's go mushroom hunting, like that kind of shit 'cause I'm orangey.

I'm gonna sip in.

The yellow is creativity and intellect and you know.

I'll take it.

Yeah, those definitely make sense.

I've never heard of any of those things but you know what, I'll roll with it.

What's your favorite number?

Whoo, my favorite number. I guess one thing that pops into my head is 11.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

Very interesting.

I think 11 is kind of--

11's great.

Is this?

Yeah.

11's kind of cool.

This is a great Julian Casablanca song, 11th dimension.

10 from zero to 10 for some reason.

Oh no, you're not limited by that, no.

'Cause I could say like 150 or something.

People get weird with it, Evan.

And I'll tell you why and this is just off top but it's because 11, it's like two people standing next to each other.

One, one, one, one.

Yeah, and like 11, 11, I'm not incredibly superstitious, I am, but like I like to make wishes whenever I see 11.

That's a wise idea.

Yeah, I just think of why not.

I have a song you're gonna like.

I know.

Oh really?

I saw it also when I started asking these questions, it was all one, one, one, one.

Oh really? It'll happen again.

Yeah, of course. Okay, 11, what's your favorite animal?

My favorite animal. Oh man.

I love how serious you're taking each one is perfect.

Well it is, it's very, you know, my favorite animal would probably have to be, shit man, it's, I don't, you know, I've raised a lot of animals on growing up on a farm. We raised a lot of different animals so I don't want to be really--

Discriminatory.

Yeah, discriminatory.

Sure.

You don't want to be animal races.

I don't want to be an animal race. I love chickens.

Wow, no one has ever said chickens.

I do, I love chickens because they just keep on giving and then they mind their own fucking business. They just mind their business and they lay eggs and they're like, go ahead, take them. I don't give a shit. I'm just going to run around and fucking eat the worms and shit and like, you know, it's, but then I also, I would say I love sheep, but I've had some terrible experiences with sheep.

They can be aggressive. Goats are cute, but they're pain in the ass to raise and take care of.

Yeah.

So, you know, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to just go with between like, any feline, like a cat and like a tiger or like a mountain lion or something, like a protector, yet a protector, yet like a cool protector, but also a somebody, they can fuck you up.

Yeah, don't fuck with them.

You don't want to fuck with them and you respect their space, yet they're like, you know, cats are like descendants of these things, you know what I mean?

I do know.

And it's like, you cuddle them and whatever. So there's cats and then there's chickens. So we're like, we'll leave it there with the animal.

Last question, what's a practical tip that's helped you in your life that you could share with people listening? Can be anything?

I'm going to say, I'm like, assuming you ask me this question again.

Yeah.

I will.

You can see how they've changed.

I do.

I would say a practical tip, is to give people the benefit of the doubt.

Wow.

It's way better to live your life, giving people the benefit of the doubt, rather than attacking them without, you know, like feeling like negative towards them.

Wow.

I've known a lot of people in my life that live their day-to-day in this sense of protecting themselves and boxing themselves in and not, or that's what I'm trying to say. It's kind of like just feeling very guarded. It comes from a place of fear. And like, I chose, I live side-by-side with somebody who is like that. And I was, I'm somebody who gives people the benefit of the doubt.

Benefit of the doubt.

And I will say that like, it will inevitably lead to disappointment. I promise you, you will be disappointed by somebody, but somebody will equally come and come and go to fuck up and just be there and just be so fucking cool.

It's spectrum.

Yeah, it's a spectrum. So you just have to let that yin, that yang, like kind of shine. So I'd say definitely just give people the benefit of that.

And you gain discernment from those experience too, like both of them, you know, the positive. And that's fucking amazing. Also, something else about what you're saying, struck me when you're saying benefit of the doubt, which is you're releasing those people from your conception of them, if you are doubting them. If you, you're binding them to an image in your mind of who they are, and if they're not capable of accepting it, and that's likely if they're in a bad, not in a not stable place, you're actually helping create the state that they're in, the mood that they're in. So if you just give them the benefit of the doubt, which is another way of saying, just like open yourself up to something else, like dude.

You're opening that lot, dude.

Like a flower.

That's something that you told me before too, like a couple days ago or whatever, saying you're imagination, you can imagine people what they are or what you're in.

Just them, it's their best versions. They're happiest, it's all good, dude.

You know what I'm saying? You're fucking, you meet somebody, and you go, oh, you're a fucking cool guy.

Exactly.

Exchange two, where's your cool guy?

You're the coolest.

Why wouldn't you wanna do that rather than, why would the fuck?

It's so funny.

Anybody and be like,

You're a shithead.

Probably a fucking dick.

And like that, how does that translate? That translates into them having to prove themselves to me?

Or you're, it's just so many things that get into that. It's just so much easier to be like, you know what, I can recognize objectively, maybe some things that I don't vibe with, or maybe I'm there, but like, you know, that's just where they are right now. They're totally the best. They're gonna, right around the next day, they'll wake up and they'll be like fucking great.

Yeah.

Yeah, man. Dude.

Yeah, I love it.

Dude, this has been--

It's been really great.

Incredible. High five, ah, ah, ah, ah.

Amazing.

For everybody listening, if you've made it to the end, my name's Emekai.

Where can people find you?

You can find me on Instagram @emekai, E-M-M-E-T-T-K-A-I, that's my real name, and everywhere.

Spotify, and all the places.

All the same shit, Emekai, E-W-M-E-W-T-K-A-I.

Fuck yeah.

You can put it on music all year.

Amazing, dude. Looking forward to this, yeah. Yeah. [MUSIC PLAYING] ♪ I've never seen a flight like this ♪ ♪ And you know I can really ride a field chance ♪ ♪ No, fuck the whole day, let's say ♪ ♪ People, let's stay toxic ♪ [MUSIC PLAYING] ♪ If you don't want to go my way, wait ♪ ♪ Kiss me a lot, baby ♪ ♪ Both got similar taste ♪ [MUSIC PLAYING]

That is a song by Emekai called Juicy. You can find it in all the places, Spotify, Apple Music, all the wonderful places. He's fucking dope, I told you, it's fucking amazing. So go check that out. Go check him out everywhere. Well, you'll be hearing more from Emek and I, just one of the coolest people I've come across recently. So I will see you next week, we'll have a solo episode in a few days. Regular stuff, there'll be a bonus episode and bonus things coming out on Patreon. That's really where you want to be, if you want to find the extra stuff now, if you need more, then the weekly stuff, that's where you want to be.

Okay, that's it. I will see you out there, happy imagining.