Ep. 9 - Technology and Consciousness with Yaron Karasik

This is synchronicity. - This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity. - This, this, this, synchronicity.

This is synchronicity. - This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity. - This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity. - This is synchronicity.

Welcome to episode nine of Synchronicity. My guest today is Yaron Karasic. Before I get into Yaron, I wanted to talk about Christmas. Christmas is always an interesting thing as a bit of an outsider because, you know, yeah, we had Hanukkah, but as my mom is apt to point out, you know, we got like socks and stuff. It wasn't like a huge thing. When I was younger, I got a lot of He-Man toys. I got a lot of He-Man toys for like my birthday in Hanukkah, but as I got older, the gifts, you know, they started turning into socks, which I got some good pairs of socks, not complaining. But it was never the big kind of present time that other kids had, you know, under the Christmas tree waiting for that.

But that's not what I really want to talk about Christmas. I want to talk about my main man, Jesus Christ. So, and I mean that, actually, I really do. That is not said in any joking way. I'm a big Jesus fan, had some pretty powerful experiences in my life that not only lead me to believe that Christ consciousness, that Jesus was a person, but also some type of spiritual, like a saint of sorts, right? But like a big, a really big one, and an important one for this planet in the world. So I do believe in Jesus. I believe in a lot of the things that He taught, you know, really kindness, compassion, unconditional love to everyone, not only people in your family, but your neighbors, even animals, big, big animal rights activists.

So I really, it resonates with me. And I've had some other mystical experiences that I will go into at a later time that validate a lot of those feelings and way I feel about Jesus. It's someone who I do consider a part of my life. And I know that could be a little weird to some people, especially the way, you know, religion is conceived of and perceived, especially in this country. My point is this is Christianity in this country and in the West is clearly a bit tied up in other interests, whether it's financial interest or institutional interest. Also, when you organize different parts of religions, you know, you can get dogma can come in, right?

Something that hardens and kind of calcifies around some maybe really pure awesome ideas and concepts, but it gets a little tied up and bogged down and people get into it. And that happens with anything. This is not just Christianity. This is not just the Abrahamic religions. This is everything, you know, from Buddhism to Hinduism to anything you can think of. I'd also like to point out when I say Christianity, I'm not talking about every Christian. In some ways it's a disservice to speak in such broad general terms. But I mean, in a lot of ways, truthfully, let's talk about the real issue here.

I don't think it's anything inherently wrong with Christianity or any religion. I think that you always have a certain type of people or class of people who not saying they're necessarily evil or bad people, but they prey upon people's faith and beliefs and willingness to believe in goodness. And, you know, you can see this right now, obviously, with the Republican Party and how they're essentially latching on to people's fears and religious beliefs and kind of warping that into some weird, I don't know, fear, mongering, political values-based thing that is kind of directing people to do certain things.

But yeah, I'm not talking about if you're a Christian and you go to church and you love Jesus and you love God, I love that. I'm totally for that. So I wanted to make that clear. Okay, back to the show. My point is this. And so this year, it seems to me, and I was trying to think why, it seems like Christmas was less commercialized. Like, it seems like there was less. It didn't start so early. There wasn't Christmas lights everywhere right after Thanksgiving or before Thanksgiving. And I was trying to figure out why. And I realized it's because we don't have cable. We don't have a television anymore.

We just do the Netflix, Hulu, Prime, you know, combo. So we don't have any, like, commercials, really. And I don't know if this has been your experience this year. Yeah, so I'm talking to you. I don't, but it didn't seem like it was that big of a deal. And I think it's because we weren't being bombarded with advertisements saying that it's a big deal. But that's just kind of a weird thing in this country that I think it's lost sometimes is, you know, yes, you go home with family and this is a great time to get together and spend time with your loved ones and really try to make it like a fun time, you know, not like as a chore or something.

So that's a real positive of the holiday season. And there's also a lot of people who don't have that and can start feeling particularly isolated this time of year. So if you may know someone like that or you think you know someone like that, you know, it's a really good time to reach out to them and, you know, just say that you're there and you care about them and you love them too. You don't have to invite someone to get together or anything, but just to let people know you're thinking about them. It's always a good thing to do, not just the holidays. But back to the original point, which is Jesus and the relationship to what we have is Christmas now.

It seems like it's a harder, the connection there between who Jesus Christ was as a person or as a teacher and what Christmas the commercialized holiday is now, it's like pretty hard to see the link there in Santa Claus and all these things. But I do think there's still quite a bit of positive things about this time of year, regardless of the religion you're celebrating, but in particular Christianity, so it's a reflect on some of the things that Jesus stood for. And I'm not trying to be like an evangelical here, but I do think there's some really cool stuff in there that anyone could gain value out of.

Just like, you know, we talk on this podcast and I particularly lean towards a lot of philosophical and esoteric things that are not necessarily firmly rooted in the West. But, you know, the West has a lot to offer too. And I think one of the things I'm interested in doing for this podcast is kind of fusing a bit of those concepts. So let's all wish Jesus a happy birthday and, you know, tell people you love them and that's going to be my shot at giving advice. I'm not going to do that very often in the intros, but that's my advice. So today, your own, Karasic, Jewish. So it's nothing to do with Christmas really, but your own is super cool.

He's a mobile app developer. He's also a digital nomad, although he's right now based in Israel. You know, he has traveled the world kind of doing lots of his job before it's in the ability to kind of travel the world and do what he wants because he does something digital and you don't have to be in a physical location for that for any set period of time. So we go into digital nomadism. We also talk about, you know, what technology, what is the relationship between technology and spirituality too? Like, what are the ways that either or are impacting each other and how do they kind of fuse together and creating some systems, you know, that in media that really can help people, not just be what we see a lot of on, you know, the web or TV these days, which are trying to sell us something and make us feel better.

And, you know, it's kind of squirting the issues. Like, well, why don't you feel good? What are some real ways to actually make you feel better? Maybe we don't have to buy something. But we go into a lot of this stuff, really interesting conversation, Yaron, for what it's worth, he didn't, you know, he's like, well, why do you want me on the podcast? I'm like, yeah, you got, you have some cool stuff to share. So, and I think that'll be borne out as you listen to this. I want to mention that you can find Yaron on Twitter. His handle is greenwell, G-R-E-E-N-W-E-L-L. And he has a new app out, a new, very cool, if you're a basketball fan, NBA.

He's got a really cool new app called 24. And you can find it on the App Store. And it's pretty cool. It kind of aggregates conversations based on Twitter around the NBA. The NBA is actually really forward thinking in the way they approach kind of fans making media and talking about it too. Like, whereas the NFL kind of clamps down on any like gifts or like things, people sharing any media, they like don't allow that. The NBA is actually pretty encouraging of it. So, some cool things have come out of that. So, yeah, if you're into basketball, NBA, get that app. But yeah, I mean, enjoy the conversation here.

I think it's one of the more interesting, it's always interesting to talk to someone who's doing really high level work. In this case, it's app development, but also have a very real connection to kind of not so worldly concept. Also, maybe they're worldly, but more esoteric concept. So, without further ado, here is Yaron Karasik. (upbeat music)

Thank you so much for doing this, by the way. I really, I do appreciate your time in taking it out to do this. So, thanks again.

My pleasure.

Okay, so, I'm gonna do a whole intro, so you don't have to worry about me explaining who you are. I'm just gonna ask you questions. You relax, sit back, don't worry about it. Okay, so, I met you when you reached out to love server member to help with a mobile application, which is now the Be Here Now mobile app. So, that was my first experience with you. My first question is, is, A, what prompted you to reach out like that? And how did you get into Rhonda's or spiritual things, what was the trajectory there for you?

Yeah, it's a great question. So, I think all throughout my life from a very young age, I've always been interested in the mystic aspect of life, just figuring it out what it's all about, looking at things in a more deep way, and just understanding what's really going on. And initially, I went to places like philosophy and psychology, reading a lot of those materials, a lot of the classics in those fields, some spiritual teachers, some things related to that. And everything was really interesting, was really enlightening, was really intelligent, but it never really felt, it never clicked, it never felt right, it never really explained things all the way, it always left me with a bigger question, still intact.

And I came across, like I'd never heard of Rhonda's, it was about maybe nine, 10 years ago.

Okay.

And I think, I don't even remember exactly how, like I'd never heard the name before, and the name just popped up somewhere. I can't even say from where, and I just googled him, and I remember, I do still remember this moment exactly, when it came on is Wikipedia page. I remember that the picture there is him with the Rabbi Zalman Schechter.

Yes, yes.

Like I still have, I remember the exact day that I saw like the image on Wikipedia, and I started reading, oh, so this guy is, he's a spiritual teacher, he's also one of the first people to like experiment with LSD, this sounds really interesting.

Yeah.

Wow, how'd I never heard of him? So at that point in time, there was not a ton, like what we're doing today with my Padnett, and with the Rhonda's organization, there wasn't a lot of material there, so I was able to find one, like one collection of Rhonda's talks, called Experiments in Truth, which is basically a talks from various points in his life, and I'd always been attracted to India specifically. I'd been there twice, traveled there after leaving the Israeli army, and then another time, and so the fourth track was called Travels in Indian Beyond, and I didn't even know that the Rhonda's had been there, but that was the first track I heard.

I remember like I was at the gym some early morning, I still remember that, and just from the very first moment I listened to that, I was like, wow, this guy totally gets it, this is really, this is what I've been looking for, this is really the explanation for everything. And I continued listening, I heard Rhonda's story, I definitely connected because I think I come from a pretty similar background, and then I listened to some other talks, and suddenly like the whole web of Rhonda, with Maharaji, Nicaragua, and suddenly all the people that are already, that I had known about, that were connected to him, and it's like when you realize that something had always been there, but it was right in front of you, but you'd never, ever seen it.

Yes.

So the rest is history, I've been listening to his talks, and from him getting to a lot of other teachers, and it's really made a big, big, big difference in my life. So that's how I came to know, that was the first part of the question, how I came to know. - Yeah, yes.

And the second thing is, so I've been doing iOS apps for the last five years, and something I'm really passionate about, I feel that it's a very kind of unique experience that we have these days is using these apps, which are very, there's computer programs basically, but since they're on our little phone, and they have all this information about us, and they're connected to our social networks, then they become so personal. So I remember once I was just, oh, is there a Rambath app? I'm really interested in seeing, so I searched for that. And I found an app which was, I'm very sensitive to the technical level of how apps are done, and the design, and really making them as nice as possible.

So I did feel that it wasn't up to the level of the material.

Yeah, sure. Which prompted me to reach out to the foundation, and no, I mean, just the thought of being able to help, promote this kind of content, and the way that, and what I'm good at, what I'm good at doing, really excited me.

Yeah.

Yeah, that was the start of it.

Well, and I'll say this, I mean, since the very first day that you got in touch, it's just been a real pleasure getting to know you, and just the work you've done. We have, I'm sure you can imagine, a lot of people get in touch, wanting to help in a lot of different ways. And sometimes they're able to, but just from the very beginning, you had such a refreshing perspective on this, and really just your work spoke for itself. It was, it was, it's been awesome. But, - And for two.

You touched that, thanks, man. You touched on a couple of things here, when you were talking about how you were getting into spirituality that I want to delve into. One was, you said you, you had always, and much, I can relate to almost every single thing you said to the T, and we'll get into that, but you mentioned always being kind of interested in the mystical, or kind of the unseen aspects of reality, so to speak. What were some of the philosophers who you originally gravitated towards, before getting into Ron Vass and that stuff?

I think, you know, I haven't, like, I haven't read that stuff in so long, and it really didn't affect me that.

Yeah, yeah, I can't even remember. But as, you know, I started with, like, the classic philosophers, I remember reading Kent, and I read a lot of spiritual teachers, books by Krishnamurti, and Shubhinanda, and Satchitananda, and a lot of, I mean, great teachers. But I think that it was always kind of just this, I think like the Western philosophers were too much based in the intellect. They were always trying to reason and explain things, and they always came to, okay, so what's the reason behind that? Like, building all these kind of logical structures over something, but it was never something complete, and it never, you know, always, the big questions would always--

Be started, yeah, yeah.

Well, I love that you, one of the things I really enjoy about you, your own, is you clearly have this mystical kind of esoteric aspect of interest, but then where you actually work is such a highly technical, rational, like, I know it goes into it, we don't do completely dissimilar work, but you're very, I think that's pretty cool that you confuse those two things, and I think it's ultimately important because that's, not everyone is just gonna be able to relate to some of these things from a woo-woo perspective, for lack of a better word. Sometimes it does need to be a more practically-based, like stuff we see with the mindfulness movement in the West.

That is, this is purporting to have practical benefits, which is less than like, oh, you need a guru, and he's gonna solve all your problems. So I see the advantages to both sides, and I like that you've been able to fuse them in your own life. So you also mentioned being interested in India, and you went to India twice. What brought on that, that in your life?

So, again, the reason is not that, the actual next story is a little less exciting, but it turned out to be like, it's my favorite place in the world, and I'm always thinking of when is the next time I go back. But as you know, I'm from Israel, and in Israel, we all go into the army for a period of two, three, four, five years, depending on the type of service. And I had a great army service, I was in the intelligence unit, and then gave me a lot of background into what I'm doing today, technically. And then tradition in Israel, which has, it's been that way for the last 20 years, is that when you leave the army, you go on a long trip of between six months, a year, maybe a little less, maybe a little more, but it's something that every Israeli that leaves the army the age of 21 does.

The main reason I think is the army is kind of hard here, we go through some tough stuff, especially people who are dealing with, I was not on the front lines, not dealing with day to day issues like that, but it's kind of a little bit traumatic for everyone. So we all go and unwind. So the two most popular destinations are South America and in India or South East Asia. So, just before I was about to leave the army, I was okay, yeah, I'm gonna do this trip. And only then, like really, okay, so where do I wanna go? Then I started reading and really like learning and thinking about India and just everything sounded so magical and so interesting and just like learning about the religious beliefs and the different, the lifestyle there and the language and even the geography and the food and everything, really, really just something I was immediately drawn to.

And I just remember imagining from month on, I just really wanted to go on that trip and it was like definitely, it was as special as I imagined. So I've been there three times so far, I'm already thinking about the, yeah, about the fourth. And there's just something, I mean, this is pretty cliche, but when you just land there, it's just like, it's the closest thing that I've experienced to just going to another planet because everything is just different. People act differently, just different pace, different rhythm, different way of communicating with people. And when I learned a lot about the religious philosophies over there, it really makes a lot of sense that they just really look at, they have such a different basic understanding of what life is and what the relationships between people are and it's definitely something that you feel when you're there.

Yeah, I mean, I've never been, I've always wanted to go and I don't even know why I've already always wanted to go. It's just been something that has been in me from a very young age. I like you got into a lot of this mystical and kind of esoteric stuff through philosophy. And psychology, one of my biggest inspirations is Carl Jung who is just, oh God. And he had a very interesting take as you know, he traveled the world extensively, but he fundamentally realized that as he traveled the world, he was bringing his own Western perspective to each place. He could never truly experience it from the perspective of an Easterner.

And that's not a bad thing. He just said it's something he had to be aware of. And he made a very big note when he was in India of saying the way these people approach life and consciousness is so fundamentally different than the way it's evolved in the West. That it is, it's like another planet. And to be aware of that and realize there's things that are there but also to not exoticize them because they're different and foreign was a very important thing to kind of integrate in 'cause there's so much wisdom there. I mean, these traditions, just with Hinduism and Buddhism alone, have been around for so long and formed the pillars of so many other religions and philosophies, but at the same token, you need to approach them in a way that doesn't kind of make them so like it's a new exotic thing and oh, I'm gonna take this and do that, which I am as guilty of as anyone early on because it is.

I mean, you're seeing all these gods and goddesses, all these ritualistic things. It's eye catching for lack of a better word. But what I have found, and like I said, I've never been to India and I cannot wait to go. I sense that it's gonna be an amazing time when I do get there. But what I've sensed is that there is something you can relate to without having been or going to India that is still inside of everyone. There's what they're talking about, what is written about is so fundamentally inherent in everyone that there's a way to access that without physically having gone. 'Cause I know a lot of people in our community, the Ramdas and Nimkarolibaba community, a lot of people feel kind of bummed out that they didn't get to meet Maharaji in person.

A lot of people feel like that, like having gone to the retreats a couple times, it's one of the things you'll hear people say 'cause you're hearing all of these amazing stories, being with them in the body, like all these things. And you can see some people are like, well, you know, I wasn't alive or I didn't get there, I didn't know. And there's like a sense of longing. And I always make it a point. I made it a point to go up to people at these retreats and people feel like that say, listen, I was born long after 10 years after Maharaji left this body. I can tell you, I'm sure it was an amazing time being around this guy, but you don't, it's not necessary.

You don't actually have to meet the guru in the body to experience everything that's related to it. And this is coming from someone, I talked about it on the podcast before, three, four years ago, if you would have said any concept of a guru, I'd be like, get the fuck out of here. Like this is, I have no interest, it's weird, you guys are freaks, you don't understand, you're getting conned. And then over time, you mentioned in your story getting into spirituality is, you know, it's all these things kind of linked up at a certain point and they fell into place. And that is one of my favorite experiences in life.

When you realize all these seemingly disconnected events and little weird things here and there, when they kind of thread together and align, you're like, oh, that to me is just such an exhilarating feeling, I don't know exactly what it's related to. Part of me thinks it's something to do with reincarnation. Like, you know, when you go to a place, like you go, well, I had always, you know, kind of heard the name Rambas or it can't popped up. And then I went to India. Like these things tend to like synchronously, synchronicity wise unfold in such a unique way that it's amazing to me.

So exactly, yeah. And then I found out that my brother-in-law has always been into it for years. We just never talked about it, you know, Steve Joe, which is a big apple for adventure.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

The ashram and you know, and I'd read like Danny Goldman's books when I was like more thinking about the--

Psychological, yeah.

Stuff and it's like, oh, he was there too, so oh.

It's so funny. I mean, it's, to me, it's further confirmation of, you know, we're doing the things we're supposed to be doing. So I wanted to talk about a little bit 'cause I have some Israeli friends and I've never really been asked this question. What was it like being, because just from my experiences with you, if you weren't in Israel, I don't get the sense that you would actively be interested in being in an army or a military. Your personal experience, what was it like being in the military there?

Yeah, so yeah, I definitely see myself as a citizen of the world.

Yes.

More than a bit of Israel. And I actually, I grew up in Boston as a kid for four years and I just spent three years in New York. I've got back from there right now. So, and love traveling and I do feel that India is definitely the other planet. But any time you leave your, like your society and your day-to-day habits that are related to your society, your mind automatically opens and you're just learning so much and you're much more able to be yourself. But on the other hand, I do feel that, you know, you're dealt like a hand and you should work with that.

Yeah.

Part of my hand is being born in Israel and although the religious heritage, the national heritage, and it's just, you know, someone born in India, someone born in Israel, someone born in the States, you should work with that. That's like, it's all good. Like you can, if you're living in a capitalistic society in the States, there's a lot of like things you can learn from that. And if you're living in a complex nation like Israel, you can work with that. And so for me, the army was, it was never something, a lot of people are much more nationalistic than me. They're very much excited about going into the army.

There's a lot of patriotism around that. And also about like the fighter aspect of it.

Yeah.

I was lucky enough that I really did go to a place which really fit my, both my skillset and my philosophy. So the intelligence unit were basically not, you know, we're not in the field, we're not in combat. We're doing things behind the, you know, we're sitting in front of computers, we're doing like high-techy stuff. It was like the late '90s, early 2000s. So it was a great time to do like cool stuff in tech. And Israel, a lot of, Israel's known as like the startup nation, a lot of startups come out of here. And a lot of that is actually linked to the technologies that are being developed in the army.

So it was a great thing for that. To the point of where, you know, what the political situation is and being part of, you are part of that. I mean, you are, so there's no right answer here. I definitely feel, so I mean, yes, Israel does need to, does need to defend itself. Like you said, we're not in, we're in a very hostile area. We're surrounded by, I mean, I'm not gonna comment on, I think it's a complex situation.

It is.

Every side has, is right in their own way. But we do need to protect ourselves. So it's definitely something that I could connect to. I mean, it's where I grew up, it's where I, I have my home family, so I definitely connected that.

Well, I get it, man. What you just described of having your experience in the military and working there is a beautiful way of doing your duty, but also bringing the right and tent and perspective into a situation. I mean, it'd be one thing to say, ah, I come fundamentally, I'm opposed to war. This is no reason this should happen. I don't ever wanna see any harm or strife come to people. But then, let's think about the Bhagavad Gita a little bit, right? The Bhagavad Gita is centered around someone literally, Arjuna, saying that, saying like, I don't wanna kill my relatives. I don't wanna like, are you crazy?

And it is a metaphor, of course, but it also isn't a metaphor. I mean, this is something that he was specifically dealing with. So I really enjoyed your take on that. I wanna shift gears a little bit because you did something and you're one of a few people I know who do this. You did something you mentioned, you were living in New York. And then you did something I thought was so fucking cool. You then traveled in South America for an extended period of time while working remotely. But I just remember checking in, you'd be super tan, you'd be like, I'm here, I'm having a great time. Can you talk about not only the specific traveling that you did, but kind of what your career allows you to do on that front and what you think the benefits are.

I mean, I know there's people who listen to this podcast who have similar types of jobs that allow them remote freedom. And what was your inspiration or motivation to take a trip like that after living in New York?

Yeah, definitely. So I'm really interested in the digital nomad movement that's really reaching its peak right now. I think that it's a combination of, first of all, the just the communication, the fact that we're able to, like we're talking right now, across the planet and it feels like we're in the same room, there's so many collaborations where you can talk and work with anyone at any given moment. The work that a lot of us are doing is completely digital. It's obvious when we're talking about things that are like building apps or websites that's very naturally digital and something you can do from anywhere in the world.

But I think that we're seeing that all of these different, you know, occupations are going towards that. And it's really hard to think of anything that is going to actually require physical presence. (laughing) I mean, even like you think of something like a therapy. But people are doing that over Skype or you know, like the departure. People are, like the things that require the most intimate connection between people can be done via the web. And it's pretty seamless. So yeah, we had the living, me and my wife and the living in New York for three years, for two and a half years. And we'd actually, I'd not explored, like we traveled a bit in the States, but we love the city so much.

You know how it is. (laughing) I know. I believe every weekend does. Okay, we can fly there, we can go there, but there's so much to do. (laughing) And I was like, I was in my day job. So it was harder to take a longer trip.

Yeah.

But when we realized we were going back to Israel, it was a perfect time to take a few months. And so we traveled in Central America for about two and a half months. Start in Guatemala, through Belize, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rican, Panama. It was amazing. Just beautiful, beautiful places, combination of nature and people and food. And it was just great. And so my work is basically building apps and other digital properties, website, server side stuff, all of that. And I can, there's literally no difference as long as there's an internet connection.

Right, right.

From the world. I'm doing it in Israel right now. There's nothing, like I could hop on the plane and continue doing exactly what I'm working on right now. And I think it's a very special time where technology's allowing us to travel and to work on these things from anywhere, to work with other people. And I think that, so I'm a part of a lot, even now that I'm here for Israel for an extended period right now, I'm connected to a lot of the digital know-by communities and seeing what they're doing and how they're building out their lives. And I think it's a huge shift in how humanity is. I don't think it'll happen immediately.

No, no, I agree. But I also sense that I'm in my job is very much the same. I could do this from anywhere and have done it from anywhere. And it's been a real revelation when you realize that. So you're going into technology. I wanna talk about this 'cause we, as we mentioned beginning, are specifically working on some stuff from MindPod Network, a mobile application. We have one for Lipser for Member. I wanna talk about the relationship between technology and spiritual media. Just because I, five, six years ago realized the web to me and technology to me is inherently neutral. It is not good or bad inherently.

It is a thing that exists and can be used for good or for not so good. So you can have, you know, BuzzFeed articles that are really very not really adding too much to society and they're maybe distracting people. And then you can have mediums like, I would include rhombus.org here, where we're really trying to get information that we think can practically help people in their day-to-day lives. And I've noticed, and I'm a firm believer that now more than ever, we're able to create some systems here, we have the ability to create these systems to really change consciousness in a way that here's a four has not been possible.

And I would like to get your perspective on what you view as these evolving technologies and how they can be, you know, a tool for good and raising the awareness of everyone in the world and making the world a more connected and better place. We know the world is connected. I mean, anyone who's meditated long enough or taken enough psychedelics or studied enough, like they know, we're all very connected. Now with the internet and the web, we are digitally connected. Talk a little bit about that fusion of those two things.

Yeah, I feel that, you know, if you do listen to rhombus and he talks about how the universe is, you know, acting out itself through us and like we're all connected and then we go into these like disparate beings to explore and to build and to figure, to play and to figure stuff out, it feels like it's like, it's in a sort of a meta way. We're actually like rebuilding, we're reconnecting, not just spiritually, but like we're actually building out these networks in the physical world.

Yeah.

It's pretty crazy, like if you look at something like Twitter or other, I don't call them even social networks, they're like streams of consciousness.

Yes, yes, exactly.

So we're all connected. We're all talking to each other on these channels. We're all just shooting out information and everyone's reacting to that. You're retweeting that. So we're really like these neural networks, just people, you know, processing information. Everyone's a little different. Everyone has a little different take on things, has different abilities. We're processing out, we're shooting, we're doing it at a speed of light. Like I have these days when I'm literally like interacting with so many different types of media, I'm retweeting something here, I'm talking on Slack with someone else.

And I think that it's just, it's just getting more and more rich and quick. And I think the next step here is gonna be, things are related to virtual reality, where this is, you know, the Oculus stuff, which is one of the leaders in Facebook company, which is one of the leaders in virtual reality. They're coming out with their products early next year for consumers and you're actually going to be able to, very soon, like if you look how far, you know, digital experiences like gains or other stuffs have come over just 25 years.

Shh, yeah.

In 10 years, we're just gonna be like, whatever you want to experience, just put on a headset and then just connect even later without a headset, just connect directly to that and experience that. And I think there's definitely gonna be, like you said, there's gonna be a negative aspect to that. A lot of people will naturally use that for things that are negative to them and negative to others, but it will bring together some kind of very, some kind of connectivity there. So to come back to your question, I think that the technology is just bringing us like together in the physical world and eventually, you know, it could be where we're all just thinking together.

Like if it's connected to our minds, we're all just, you know, we're just shooting out thoughts. Other people are, you know, rethinking, re-tweeting our thoughts when we're talking to them. And, you know, it's early, like we never know, I think that if you look at science fiction that usually they get, like if you look at things that were written 50, 100 years ago, people really did predict these.

Yeah. - Is that crazy? Yeah, yeah, I know.

They didn't, I don't think they predicted like how it would actually, like no one imagined like the smartphones and how big a deal they would be. But I think like you don't imagine the actual like mediums, the media, the physical devices, but you do imagine the concept. So I think it's gonna be hard for us to like at this point to imagine what it's actually going to be like, but it's definitely just gonna be like this big mesh of thoughts that will operate the world basically. There might be no, like I might create, you know, how every very strong effect creates like a negative effect.

Yes, yes.

So this might create also, you know, another set of people that would, you know, totally disconnect and go back to nature. But yeah, I think it's definitely, and for me being an app developer at this point is, I definitely feel like I'm building the building lots for that it's kind of scary.

Yeah. (laughing)

Well, I'll say this. I mean, this is why I'm happy you're one of these people potentially building the building blocks here is because I a long time ago realized, and I know you know this, we could be doing whatever we want in the technology field and in our jobs. We could be working with Monsanto and all of these companies if we really wanted to focus on those things. But obviously we've gravitated towards a different arena. I am fundamentally, and I know you are too, interested in creating systems and networks that are actually designed not to expressly make money, not to expressly, you know, build something to co-op for something else, but to actually provide something to a large spectrum of people that can actually impact their lives for the better.

Because there's lots of stuff I do on the web. Some of it productive, some not so productive. But I know when I connect with something, and whether it's something like Humans of New York, right, a great example. This is something on Facebook that everyone, I mean, if you don't know Humans of New York, please check that out. Also, if you don't know Humans of New York, check out a podcast Michael Donovan did with the founder Brendan Stanton of Humans of New York. Great, great episode. But we see these things that I've been watching Humans of New York right for since his inception, basically. And one of the things that I realized, maybe two years ago, I was like, you know what?

Based on the comments, based on how people are interacting, it's only a matter of time before this thing serves as kind of a fun alert gateway to actually helping these people. Not just seeing a sad story, not just seeing, oh, well, this guy is down on his luck or this refugee is having problems. Oh, I feel bad, I wish I could. But actually seeing people being like, I will help you. I will help you. This is how I will help you. Do you need a job? I'll get you a job. Do you need help getting into the country? Let's get a petition going with a million people. So I see those things, you know, evolving slowly, very slowly, I mean, granted, I think there's a lot more we could be doing with crowdfunding and really making an actionable difference for a lot of people, but they're evolving in a way that gives me a lot of confidence that people genuinely want that stuff.

I think the reason that people don't engage with that stuff is it's not what is out there right now. What is running the web, for the most part, is a permutation of like the industrial commercial complex, right? I mean, it is advertising revenue. I'm a big Google fan. I am also very wary that companies like Google and Apple control a disproportionate amount of our web attention and technologies, which theoretically can be a scary thing. But there's a lot of shit on the web that's really not designed to improve our lives. It's to purport to improve our lives, but isn't. So I really am trying to build a lot of things out here that I think we'll be able to serve as kind of beacons for people to help with this stuff.

And I know you are too. And I'm just encouraged that there's people like you out there doing what you're doing and trying to make a difference. You have your incredibly skilled and could be doing whatever you want, but you did. You got the call to reach out to love serve and just help, save up, pure and simple. I mean, that was save up. There's no other way to put it. Save up meaning service for people who don't know aren't familiar with the term. Okay, last question. This is flew by, by the way, as I knew it would. Whenever you're having fun, it's super fun. So is there anything you're working on specifically now or do you have a desire to work on that is, you feel is very important.

I mean, I know you have an open palette here. You could do whatever you want. But what do you have going on now or do you hope to work on in the future?

Yeah, so I've been doing apps for five years working with clients and companies. And I'm really looking, what really excites me is in the connects to what we just talked about is really creating these experiences where people, you know, really it enhances their lives and you can see something that you can actually see people using enhancing their lives in some way and reaching their day to day, like less, you know, I'm less interested in taking people away from their, you know, real life experiences but more about enhancing them. So I'm definitely in a place where I'm looking for, I think, you know, the app, there are so many apps out there and it's definitely become, become like a very, very saturated market.

Yes.

And I don't think that, I think that like the interesting there's not gonna be like a new, no one's gonna be thinking of a new kind of app or something that does something new but really just finding these experiences where like the modern person can really find solace or connect to other people or enrich themselves in some way. I'm not sure yet. This is one of the reasons why I was so excited to work on the Ramdas app and the MPN app and because I do feel that, you know, the way that I discovered Ramdas and today it's, there's just so, like, if I mentioned that there was one, you know, one CD I could get 10 years ago, right now there's just, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Tens of thousands of hours of material which is all so interesting and so enriching.

Yeah.

And just to bring that to people and to connect them. So I'm definitely, yeah, I do have that open palette. I'm looking for those experiences. One thing we, so I'm working on these little, little projects on things that I do enjoy and I'm passionate about. So different, like something that's very different from what we talked about is me and a couple of friends launched an NBA app yesterday, it's called 24. You can find on the app store and it really, it is actually a little bit connected to what we talked about because with Twitter, it's really hard today. There's so much interesting information going on but it's really hard to connect it to something else that you're experiencing.

Yes.

And so what we looked at is, so you're watching a basketball game and you really, there's so much interesting stuff going on on Twitter, commentator talking about it. Fans are posting vines of dunks and the players are tweeting something before or after the game. And it's really hard to go into Twitter and focus on that, on a specific game.

Absolutely, yeah.

Celtics versus Cavs, give me the Twitter stream for that. So that's what we tried to do in that app. So we, it's basically based on curation. We created a bunch of these commentators, players, teams. And anytime, so if you tap into, so you can follow any game on this app and if you tap into the Celtics Cavs game, you'll see tweets that are related to that specific game. And it's something that is as simple as it may sound and you really can't do today, you can't go into Twitter and like funnel it onto that event and you're not going to follow all those players.

Right, right.

For a game, for a game, exactly, exactly. Well, I will say this, I've used this app and it's brilliant and I'm a NBA fan. I'm a much bigger NFL fan but I do love the NBA. It's, Twitter to me is one of the most fascinating things. You've lured me back into this conversation 'cause Twitter is, I've been on Twitter since, I think 2008 or 2009, maybe 2007. And I immediately keyed into what you've mentioned before which is this is a unique way of communication that heretofore has not been experienced even with chats. It is, you eliminate the verbal funnel for consciousness. You're just putting out these things.

And I think one of the things that a lot of people have problems with Twitter 'cause some people are like, I don't get Twitter, it's not intuitive to me, is you are ultimately responsible for curating your stream and identifying people who are going to provide with what you want. I am of the strict opinion. This is my personal Twitter ethos. I don't ever follow more than 100 people ever. And I know if I continue to expand my network that may become a little bit shakier but I do it because I wanna make sure I'm devoting enough attention to the thing I'm focused on and the people I wanna be focused with.

So something like your app where you rally around a specific event, which like you said, you're not gonna follow every golden state player and commentator and reporter just for one game you're watching between your favorite team or if they're your favorite team. But being able to have it aggregated in one place. I mean, the potential that's there, not just for MBA but for other stuff, it's brilliant. It's great. And I think you've done a really cool thing. I'm gonna have links to that and other things you've worked on because it's pretty cool, man. And sports is something I got into on a podcast I did with David Silver here.

I think sports play a very, very, very important role in our society and it's often overlooked and sometimes the negative aspects are focused on but there's something there that really brings people together, creates some sense of togetherness even if it's, you know, infighting because your team is losing to another team or whatever and I've had those things. So I think it's cool, man. I think it's really cool and I definitely encourage everyone to check it out. Cool, man. I had a great time doing this. I definitely wanna do it again. And thank you again. Thank you so much for doing this, man.

Thank you. I love the podcast. Great job.

Thanks. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

You're listening to the end again. Past even the song, that's some next level dedication. So that was, if you like that song, by the way, that is something you probably haven't heard before because it's actually a Prince song called Uptown but I made a little edit of it. I think I won't tell you exactly how I did it but if you listen to the song Uptown, you'll notice that it's a little bit different. I slowed it down a little bit, put the pitch down. It's got a nice little groove, I thought. So yeah, if you like that, you're welcome. I don't know. I'd need a vehicle to get some of the stuff I do creatively out.

So again, thank you for listening. Rate and review on iTunes. Send me a note. If you enjoy the podcast, truthfully, I'll write back and lampert at minepodnetwork.com. Yeah, I thank you again. All right, I'll see you next week.

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