Deniz Kurtel

(upbeat music) ♪ Well, you are an inch evening ♪ ♪ I don't know where you're coming from ♪ ♪ Well, you are an inch dream ♪ ♪ I tell the world you seem to change ♪ ♪ What's wrong with you, what's wrong with your hand ♪ ♪ At name, I tell the world ♪ ♪ You seem to change ♪ ♪ What's wrong with you, what's wrong with your hand ♪

Welcome to Synchronicity. My guest this week is Denise Cortel. She is my love. This is an episode I've been teasing for a long time. We finally did it last night. We had recorded one of these earlier, but you'll hear me say in the beginning, completely not suitable. Basically, that's gonna go on the only fans. There's not actually an only fans yet. But this one, really good, really fucking good. So let me give a breakdown of who Denise is. She is a musician. She has two albums. They're fucking amazing. Go check her out on Spotify. Some of the best music I've ever heard. Really incredible. One of the many areas we overlap in in terms of what we love in life music.

Also just one of the best people I've found to discuss and explore kind of metaphysical concepts and spiritual things. And you'll hear a lot in this episode, but in future ones as well. She's kind of the opposite polarity of me. Same vibe, but she's very practical, earth-based. She's a tourist. She's got the kind of physical lockdown, which is very useful for someone like me who tends to get off up into the clouds and stays in the celestial dream space. So we have this nice dynamic where she's keeping shit real and I'm going off into space and it's nice. It works out well. This episode we talk a lot about data healing, which I had heard about before but didn't really know anything about.

It's this system developed by this woman, fuck, I forget her name. There'll be notes and all this stuff in the show notes, links to the Audible book that we were listening to and fell asleep to, so you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. But cool system, basically very, very similar to state akin to sleep. The Neville Goddard kind of twilight sleep where you go and you do your imaginal acts. It basically is designed to get you to be in this very, what's the word I'm looking for? Suspended kind of limbo state where you can like really do some cool, subconscious, imaginal stuff. So we listened yesterday.

I won't give too much away 'cause we talk about it in the episode but we listened to this thing and both of us immediately passed out like within like two minutes or like five and I slept through the whole thing. So that's why in this episode you'll hear me saying, "Oh yeah, I didn't know about that." She's basically explaining it 'cause she was conscious for more of it than I was. Really cool shit. It dovetails nicely with the imaginal stuff, a lot of other modalities that I've spoken about on this show, just a cool fucking episode, basically. Denise is the best. Go, she's doing a lot of other cool stuff.

She's building, she's in the process of building a huge pyramid on this property. We're at in upstate New York. It's fucking gonna be amazing. She's like did all these experiments with like copper pyramids for growing vegetables and plants and we have a garden that we started a few months ago before we left for Turkey. And yeah, shit is just, she knows what she's doing. She does a lot of other stuff, art installations. She has these trailers, one in Turkey, one in New York where they're like midi-triggered lights and sounds. She's the coolest person I've ever met truthfully and I'm lucky enough to be with her.

So that's fucking cool. You can find out more about her from the links in the show. I'll have links to her music and other things who can check out what she's doing. Very accomplished. She's not a DJ, very important to point out. She does live sets when she's played out in the past. Just the coolest fucking person I've ever met. Have I said that before? I said it. I love this episode. It's really cool. We were just talking, laying in bed, so, so fun. So great. I think that's all I wanna say about this episode. It speaks for itself. It's pretty fucking cool. Yeah, that's it. I have a solo cast coming next week.

Got bailed out from doing one this week for this episode, so that's awesome. And yeah, there's stuff going on in the Patreon. Guys, listen, I'm gonna talk about it here and I'll talk about it in the outro for people who have joined the crypto sync discord. When you join the Patreon at the $7 level, you get access to it. All I can say is join it if you wanna make money. At this point, we're in the cycle with crypto where shit just goes up. The mantra is number go up. Know my friend in the server has been dropping gems left and right, and it's just been a really fun atmosphere in there. So if you've been looking to get into crypto, this is probably the easiest way to do it.

It's a really nice community of people who just kind of wanna share what they've learned over the years, investing and getting involved in this space. Also, it's regular, you know, there's an imagination channel. It's all the regular Woo stuff that you would want in there too. It's a pretty active community. I think we're close to 400 people now. That's pretty sweet, so the easiest way to do that again is the patreon, patreon.com/synchronicity. You can find it, it's pretty easy. That's all I'll say about that. I think that's it. I don't know what I'm gonna do for this intro. Maybe we'll have some from music at the beginning of this?

I don't know, but there'll be links. Okay, that's it. Without further ado, here is my love, Denise Kretel. (upbeat music) We're alive. Oh my God. (laughing) The first one was not suitable for any other years, but we recorded of these. Right. I won't make you introduce yourself. I never do. I don't make people do that, I find it to be awkward. Cool. So, you'll be known by the time this is recorded. What are we gonna talk about? What is this gonna play silent? (laughing) What are we gonna talk about? Beta? Well, first of all, oh. What, first of all, what's first of all? No, no, I don't know, this is just a test.

Sure, tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself to be able to record. What are we gonna talk about? Do I have to say? No. (laughing) You have to do theta stuff? Okay. I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah, that was cool. We listened to the, what was it called? Theta healing stuff. That's what it was called, beta healing stuff? I mean, I don't know what it was called. Bandicouff, what was their narrator's name? I don't remember. I'll have the info. Doesn't matter. Well, it does matter. People that want to know. No, it matters what was in it. What was in it? Well, you don't know 'cause you fell asleep.

(laughing) Ten seconds in. What I can tell you what did happen is you listened to it and then fell asleep and then woke up and you're like, "Hey, do you want to listen to this?" And I felt like I slept for hours, but it was only like 15 seconds. And then we listened to it with headphone splitters and I fell asleep within three minutes and woke up to a part where they were talking about how I was prejudiced and hated a race of people. (laughing) Also that you thought you were meant to be born? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that I might feel bad about being born and that I deserve to be born. And I woke up in the middle of it and I also, the way I woke up, which I usually don't wake up like this, I went like, "Oh, okay, couldn't breathe."

But the point is is that it was pretty good. It was pretty, it put me into a sleep state in the middle of the day. Wow, and we were so relaxed. Yeah, for at least an hour or two afterwards. Yeah. It was pretty cool. So it's like some neuro-linguistic programming stuff with some woo stuff where you travel past the universe and above it to the 12th dimension. Well, then you go past the seven, layer of reality. What do they call it? Well, it's at the seventh state. Seventh plane of existence. Yeah, so from where you can call on this iridescent light, which is supposed to be the equivalent of God, energy.

Yeah, source. Or whatever you wanna call the source. Source, yeah. And you can observe the healing that takes place. You're just the observer instead of the healer yourself. I like that part of it because we've spoken about it, but where I think the best healing takes places for the people who don't call themselves healers, but they kind of facilitate the energy of healing because I feel like people can get caught up like I'm a healer, I do this, I do that. I'm healing you. And then the likelihood of kind of getting caught up in like an ego game, I don't want that word ego. But like, you know. Or even just getting drained because you think the energy's coming from you instead of through you.

So unless you like, you know, you're in the position of just being the conduit. Rather than you're gonna get really drained and pulled into whatever the person's going through or what. Yeah. Yeah, we spoke about that too for the readings that I do because if I felt like I was specifically doing something for someone like myself, then that would be draining. But the best readings are the ones where I'm like, oh, I'm just confirming something that they already know or there's like an energy around that I'm relaying to them rather than being like, will me fix your problems for you? Right. Although I do think the imagining stuff 'cause I have that thing on the site where, you know, people can ask me to imagine things for them and I get a bunch of them every day.

I do think. Oh, another, sorry, cool thing was she was talking about people who have a difficulty, like, have difficulty imagining certain things because they say that they just don't even know what that feels like. So in those situations, she was also calling on this light to download what it feels like to be loved or wealthy or healthy or whatever the person kind of desires but says that they don't even know how to visualize or imagine that because they don't even know how it feels. Which is common when people are saying like, I'm not sure what I want or I don't know what it feels like 'cause I haven't had it yet.

And then the other thing was when you, you know, in any healing work, they always say, you know, the person has to wanna get better, like, if they don't want to, then usually that's where they cut it. They're like, you can't help them, but this was going beyond that and saying if that's what you, what comes up, then you first do what a round of, you know, healing that. So you make the person wanna get better and then you do the healing, so--

Rather than fighting with them when they can't--

Or just giving up and saying that, oh, this person just doesn't wanna heal.

Which is never--

'Cause there's a reason why they come to you. Well, actually, some people really don't want to and sometimes other people bring them to a treatment and that usually, yeah, my cousin was in that situation.

What happened there?

Ultimately, I mean, she had brain cancer, she had a pretty tough, you know, growing up, she was always really like just angry in general at life and she was angry at her mom and angry at her husband. Like, she just, I don't know, some people are just, yeah, and she just wanted to die.

Right.

And then she, even when she got cancer, immediately, she just knew she was gonna die and her mom, you know, just took care of her for six, seven years, day and night, tried everything and--

Centered to like a special center where you went with her.

Yeah, all sorts of alternative and mainstream, you know, anything that they could do, but in the end, yeah, she just, she was even upset at her mom for trying because she was like, you know, I just wanna go and you're making me suffer for your own, like you just want me to, yeah.

Yeah, that emphasizes the point, you actually have to want to do the things, like whether it's living or just something that you want in your life, like the desire actually has to be there, you can't force yourself, but--

But then I guess if you do step into this like very divine creator role, like in this book where there's always room for healing because, you know, at what point do you then say, oh, okay, then I'm gonna step away and let this person wanna die, I mean, I don't know, I guess they're--

Yeah, but it can't really--

Everyone's running their own life. You can't just force it on someone. You could maybe give them as many options or perspectives as possible to see that maybe it's worth living, but I mean--

I guess ultimately whatever happens in the end is what was meant to happen to, like as hard as you try, maybe in the 10th try, something will click or one, and you know, at that point you have to accept that that's just--

Or her function, and other people's function who serve those roles is to show the other people who continue to live, you know, pretty powerful lessons about things, 'cause I think everyone would assume whether right or wrong that, oh, well, everyone wants to live all the time, but I do think there are instances, whether you wanna call it like leaving this timeline or like moving to a different dimension, where they're like, now this isn't for me, I mean, I know you and I were talking about this with the Corona stuff, where I was like, you know, there are people who don't want to be here anymore, like they didn't sign up for the reality where consciousness is creating things faster and faster and like kind of the walls between what, how things used to work or apparently how they used to work are gonna work in a fundamentally different way and they're just like, now this isn't it for me, like I wanna go to a different place, so--

Right, I mean, there are lots of different ways of, I guess, expressing that and, you know, some people who kill themselves, you know, they do it in a cool way and they, you know, it's like--

What's the cool way of killing yourself?

I mean, I don't know, where you qualitatively can tell that, you know, someone's kind of, you know, like, in Nepal, in 80, six-year-old guy, who's just like, I'm not gonna wait 'til I get sick and die, I'm just gonna go in the woods and stop eating and that's it, I'm checking out. That's kind of like--

That's kind of cool.

Seems cool and like coming from a strong place versus someone who's been depressed their whole lives and just like, you know, saying I wanna die, I wanna die, like--

Yeah.

There's a little bit of a difference that--

Oh, there's a root, there's a root cause of why. I mean, things, suicidal thoughts in and of themselves aren't bad, I think they're actually pretty healthy for people to experience those and encounter them, but I do think if you're assuming that everything is so bad--

Right.

And that's why you wanna die, that's not good. That's bad.

Right.

That's typically--

Yeah, that's kind of what I was trying to say.

Yeah, yeah, well, if you're gonna kill yourself, how would you do it?

Nepal guy in the woods?

Stopping to eat, I mean, that doesn't, well, I don't know, maybe buy that age if I don't have the same relationship to food.

I feel like drug frenzy is a pretty good one. Like, that's a pretty good way to go, like, you know, just like push it real. Yeah, just push it real far.

Yeah, but then you're not really--

No, you know what you're doing. Like, you're like, I'm gonna push this until I die. I'm gonna go on like a 10--

I probably do something like in nature that's like really dangerous.

Like a drug frenzy in nature.

No, not like-- (laughing) I don't know, like jumping off like a waterfall, like something that, you know, you don't really do 'cause you might die, but you might make it.

Yeah, that would be bad, that would be bad. That's like the people who like try to shoot themselves and like, they shoot out their cheeks or something. It's like--

Shooting is not as nearly as epic as jumping off a, you know.

Yeah, but if you hit those rocks and literally you're just like laying on the rocks and you're like, oh, help me.

That's not good, then a bear eats you. I guess if an animal eats you, that's kind of cool, but maybe not in the moment. That seems a little too much.

Yeah.

Would you rather be burned alive or drowned?

I think drowned.

No, wrong answer.

What?

It's a little much faster with burning alive. You lose your consciousness 'cause of the pain.

Okay, well, I don't know what part of my body's gonna burn.

No, like a witch.

Like you're in a pyre. That's how you do it.

I don't know.

Not in an incinerator. Like, you know, old school burnings.

I'm an incinerator is probably better 'cause it's more evenly distributed.

Yeah, I was just thinking like traditional burn, burnable deaths.

No, I don't want--

Drowning is horrible. They say that's like burning inside of your lungs. Like it feels like you're--

Drowning like in the water?

Yeah, they say it's like it feels like your lungs are on fire.

And it doesn't feel like that when you're burning.

Yeah, but you don't lose consciousness until your oxygen is depleted under water, which takes, is a very long process.

I thought drowning is like you kind of pass out.

Eventually, it's pretty bad, I think.

Are those the only two options?

Yes, those are the only two.

All right.

That's the only way you can go. Let's talk about that iridescent jelly, what was it?

No, okay, so the jelly one is the one we want.

Also, I want to be clear, the reason you're explaining this is you literally fell asleep for like 45 minutes. I don't even know anything you're saying.

Okay, so let's at least give half coherent explanation.

Okay, all right. Theta healing, one on one, explained by Denise.

No, no, I'm not, okay, not that coherent. I'm just saying, at least let's go from, you start by sending your energy down to the core of the earth, mother earth, and then it comes back up through your feet, up your body, through all your chakras, to your crown chakra, and then you go up to the universe and--

Pass the stars.

Pass it, that part sounds a little corny.

That means-- - It's like sector eight.

It's a little mistrust.

Yeah, all the stars that are in the universe, and then you go over the universe, then you go over some rings of layers of light, and then you reach this jelly like--

Iridescent?

No, iridescent is two steps later.

This is all the colors?

Yeah, where you see the order. This is like a jelly kind of thing.

Do you call it the laws?

The laws and the, yeah. So, like, basically how things are, I guess that's the bubble that's around your subconscious.

And you go through it.

And then you have to go through it.

There's like a door.

And then there's the golden light, and then you go through that, and then you get to the iridescent, like pearl light, white light, which is like--

Blue, pearly iridescent.

Not blue.

I thought she said blue.

No, she said--

She's a deep blue.

Don't go to the blue.

She's a deep blue. - She said go to the pink one, which is the compassion. Remember, then we said that's consistent with the--

Oh, yeah.

Sunset thing.

No, you made a really good point about the infrared and the ultraviolet. Can you talk about that?

Yeah, because I mean, I was just kinda interpreting the frequency of those colors because the red towards red is higher frequency. So, and you know, I guess that's where if love and change is in the same place--

Right.

You know, where you, and higher frequencies kind of make sense that that's where healing would come from.

Yeah.

And the more blue--

Magnetism she called--

Magnetism, right, so like, it's easier to get pulled towards that, but that's not word change.

Yeah, and that lined up with what I had heard. So, in Tibetan Buddhism, they have like, there's a good book, I know you love Buddhism. There is a book called the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, written by this guy, Sogil Rinpoche, who actually later got accused of quite a fair amount of sexual impropriety, which is pretty common. You know, they send these Buddhist guys over here, they have an had sex their whole lives, they send them all these pretty women and they expect them not to get boners. It's like, come on, it's gonna happen.

Oh, you got a boner, was that the problem?

No, I think he was like abusing his position of power to lure women in, you know, sexy times, not good. But this book is really, really good. And they talk about like one of the stages, there's all these basically like opportunities to realize like the nature of everything, that pure, they call it the clear light of awareness. It's very much related to like that state they were talking about, that golden light.

Mm-hmm.

And they talk about like in these Bardo states, which are these intermediate, intermediary states between lots of things, but life and death is one of them, is a Bardo state. And at a certain point, if you're gonna take a human birth, or like an earth birth, earth birth, you're gonna take an earth birth, what you get attracted to is this blue ball of light. And people have spoken about that, you know, maybe that is earth, like you from a distance, if you saw yourself as a soul, like incarnating in a realm, that's what earth would look like, this pale blue dot, like in the distance. So I thought it was interesting that they also said that that's the magnetism, attractive force, and don't go towards there, 'cause that's gonna bring you back towards some conception of self, which is why I think she said that, which was very interesting to me.

Yeah.

That's cool.

So then you call, she said it's a request or a command to send--

Put them up like this.

Sorry, healing.

Okay.

The healing, you know, to this person, and you remove yourself and you know, your understanding of the situation, like you make sure you don't project--

Yeah.

Any of what you think would be, you know, necessary, or like what this person's going through, you completely remove yourself, and which is also similar to the, what was that book I'm word?

Yeah, the Paul Sellings stuff.

Series.

I am word stuff, yeah, those are good.

Those are good stuff.

I think enjoyed more than me at a certain point.

Yeah.

You finished the--

I finished all of them.

The three series.

Yeah.

The first one was really good.

Yeah, that was my favorite.

So, yeah, and then you simply just observe the healing taking place.

Right.

And then you then go back up there and you rinse yourself with this light because I guess a lot of healers can still get affected.

Yeah.

The energy of the person they're healing.

Totally.

And then you stay with that energy and you just observe what it does to the person.

Yeah, I like that idea of cleansing or like showering yourself off with that.

And then you can do the same to yourself, obviously.

Yeah, yeah, 'cause I think that's a lot of people, that's where they kind of get like tripped up because they may notice that they have like an innate ability to like facilitate healing, but then they start doing it and then they're not aware of how much shit they're taking on from other people, like even after. I notice this sometimes, you've seen it most of the time after I do the readings, like I'm really energized, I feel really good, but then sometimes you can see like, I just got fucking like knocked out and I'm like super tired.

Yeah.

It's something that's important to recognize like how to like A, set up boundaries and like B, be able to know how to like clear yourself of everything that you just maybe engaged with.

Yeah, it works both ways. It's good for protecting yourself and also it's good for not projecting what you think is right or needed for the person that you're healing because that's something that a lot of people, yeah.

Yeah, that's a major distortion. It's especially I think when people are dealing with like personal issues, that's like the real, that can be a real challenge is 'cause like you have, this is what I tell people with the imagining stuff too is like don't get too attached to a specific outcome like in terms of ways and means and specific circumstances, you can do it sometimes if you're pretty clear about it and you're using it lovingly, but the feeling of just having like having the achievement is the only like specificity you need to bake into it. So like that means if even your idea of how it should have gone, if it goes completely opposite, that's you can't judge that.

You can't be like, oh, that's not right. That's not the way it's supposed to be.

Do you think that robot that we just saw who was talking to Tony Robbins, could she imagine an outcome? Even though she said she doesn't have feelings?

I don't know about that robot. I don't know about her. It was like I am Lola, what's her name or something and Tony Robbins was having a conversation. A, she was clearly CGI. So it wasn't like a real robot. So it was like, hey, I think that's--

Well, whatever it says as a concept though.

Yeah, I mean, my favorite kind of like exposition or like foray into the robot stuff is from Star Trek, the next generation, Data, who is like an android and like his whole dream is like the Pinocchio thing. He's like, he just wants to feel feelings. And then in one of the movies, I think, it might actually be from a show. Like they gave him an emotion chip and he's like goes nuts. Like he loses his shit. Like he can't just crying at weird things. And he's like, I don't know how you deal with these. I think robots could probably emulate emotions to the degree where they could imagine things happening.

But I liked what she said this robot. She said, you know how like, and this is a very like tarot thing. She said, the same way the moon doesn't have any light of its own, but it reflects the light back of the sun. That's how she viewed robots function that they reflect back like the consciousness or light that humans have. And it's a tandem thing, not like a, I mean, that's also, that's also what I would say if I was a robot and wanted to take over.

Yeah, but that you can also see that as an extension of just like how humans are creating robots. If we think of that as an extension of God also, a robot could also manifest things and it wouldn't take away from just 'cause it's not a human.

Oh, I don't have a problem with that idea.

It's also a totally valid part of consciousness.

Yeah, I mean, if you go back and boil it down to like, at least what I believe at the core, which they were talking about core beliefs, which is that everyone is kind of running their version of reality that everything within your field of vision or within your perception or awareness would be divine or God because it's your consciousness creating it. So if that's a robot, if that's a child, if that's a lizard or whatever it is.

Yeah, that's why they have a concept like robot rights, which even though they're not supposed to have feelings, it's not just because of the robot, it's because what it means for a human to subject a robot to certain things, like what that does to you or what that says about you.

Did you see that experiment they did where they let these robots interact with people like in their homes and then after a while, people started being really mean to the robots. Like a lot of them really mean to them. Hating them and shit, it's like whoa.

No, it's a very interesting experiment actually.

We do that though. I mean, people do that, not you and I, but I mean, maybe you and I at some points, but like, you know, with Goofy--

You're in such a--

Oh, you're not like like Goofy fucking idiot.

Oh, right. But then I apologize.

You do apologize to Goofy. The Goofy's like a Roomba. It's like a better Roomba.

And it's better actually.

The Roomba was--

And it's cheaper.

I, that actually is not true and that's been proven that there's the same price.

Oh, it's slightly cheaper, okay.

They're not, you told me it's like, it's like 80 bucks, literally the same price as a Roomba.

Almost, yeah.

But it is better.

But it is better, yeah.

The Roomba got stuck immediately. Stupid Roomba. See?

Yeah.

It's easy to treat robots like shit. But people treat humans like shit too. It's probably just a reflection of how they feel about themselves most of the time, right? And regardless of whether it's animal or not.

Yeah.

People do this all the time with like animals and stuff. Like there's someone who's like, so such an animal rights activist, you know, like they love animals so much and then like they treat like a person like piece of shit.

Right.

'Cause they're cute? That's like the George Carlin thing where he's like, you know, we like the cute animals. We like the cuddly ones. Like no one gives a shit about a cow 'cause it doesn't like fit our model.

Or a rat.

Or a rat. Well, some people do like rats.

Some people, very few.

My friend Paul, he's a big rat guy.

A rat pet.

Yeah, that's cool. That's like, yeah.

It's pretty cool. They're smart.

No, they're extremely smart.

Yeah.

But it's totally okay to kill them.

Weed octopi or octopuses?

That's a pussy.

I'm bringing it up 'cause they're like proven to be like one of the smartest and most intelligent animals and like weed.

Yeah.

No problem. Like I think they can feel like fear and compassion and all that stuff. Are we even in the water here? Yeah.

Yeah.

I do like the Theta stuff and it did seem to line up like that core earth thing you were talking about. I was telling you how the sound healer guy, Tom Kenyon.

Oh yeah.

Put me.

Madeline.

Madeline? Yeah, Madeline.

Yeah.

My sister's friend who came over and did the sound healing thing. We're talking about this product tube that is like this tube. It's like an ethereal tube that goes through your body, connects to the earth and like outside of your body up to like the celestial realms. I think it's an Egyptian thing based on the Ka and the Ba, which I believe the Ka is like your layer one, like ethereal body and the Ba is like the thing that's above it that's connected to like the higher stuff. It's really interesting that this Egyptian stuff is coming back.

Oh and what was the, like how I'm asking you, you didn't hear any of it, but there were four ways in which we'd be carrying like patterns. This is digging for beliefs. Okay, now I remember.

Digging for beliefs.

Digging for beliefs was the subtitle of the thing.

Chapter.

Chapter, so no, of the book.

Oh, the whole book is digging for beliefs.

Data healing, digging for beliefs, yeah. Anyway, we'll, you can put it in the--

Yeah, I'll put it in there.

So she was saying that there was the core beliefs, the, I think the genetic--

Ancestral.

Historic.

Historic.

And soul.

Got it.

These are the four, you know, I guess, angles that you have to cover when you do the healing, because like it has to be on all four levels to like actually stick.

I didn't know it had to be on all four.

Yeah.

Yeah, I just woke up when, you know, they're giving, she's like, whatever they call them, you know, like a, not therapist, but like someone who heals. And, you know, they're giving examples of all these things, which are very useful if you have--

And the one that you thought was insane was totally true for me.

I didn't think it was insane.

No, you were like, who thinks that? Why would anyone think--

No, first of all, that's not what I said. What I said was this is they, they're like reading transcripts of like the woman talking to like someone who's like, they're treating. And what I found weird is like not that someone would feel, like the example was that there was this guy and like he felt inadequate or like he didn't want money. It was related to money.

No, I'm talking about the one where he's like, I wasn't supposed to be born.

Yes, I'm telling you, it's the same one.

Oh, okay.

They were finding out basically that it started with like, he didn't like money, why, why didn't you like money? 'Cause money is evil. And they're like, well, why is it evil? And then it went back because like, you know, they couldn't, they didn't feel when they were born that they were worthy because they didn't deserve to be born. Like if they just kept going to layers and layers, I didn't take exception that someone would feel like inadequate or guilty that they were born.

No, but yeah.

It's that the way the guy was reeling at him, like I don't know anyone who talks like that who like so quickly is just like uncovering these root reasons and like explicitly saying them. Maybe that's just me. Anyway, so I thought that it was, you were just surprised that anyone would say, you know, I didn't deserve, so there's this thing about like if your oldest sibling died for whatever reason, then the youngest one, it's like a thing that they subconsciously, they feel like they took the place of the older sibling. So they feel guilty and yeah, that they were born which came up in one of my healing sessions like years ago, which I had no idea, but like it came up and the woman said that it's like a thing.

It's a relatively common thing for people who deal with that. Yeah, no, that's not the weirdest one. I just woke up when they were saying, so like again, they're going through these examples and I didn't hear the earlier part of it and I just woke up, I like (gasps) out of this deep, deep, theta sleep and it's like you're prejudiced against another race and I'm like, are they trying to brainwash me into like hating black people? Like what is this? And then she kept talking and it was basically talking about how, you know, like you had ancestors who had to like fight with other people or had to deal with like disingenuous people who are maybe like, you know, rivals, ethnically, that you might not have any, you know, racism or racist tendencies based on your experiences, but there may be these things that--

Something that you meant to transcend.

Exactly, yes. And I think there was something else that they said like, it's like if you feel thoughts that aren't yours and like you try to get to the root of them and like you just don't have any like experiences in your life that validate them, that that could be, they said it was related to like a fear or something. I don't remember, I'm doing a shitty job. I'm a granite, I was only--

I love how we picked like the thing you fell asleep to talk about, you know, very little about. But I did, to me the most interesting thing about it was A, how both of us, again, these weren't like meditations. Like, you know, you actually had downloaded this thing that was more like meditating and you didn't like it. But--

Oh, the other book.

The other book, but this wasn't like meant to put you as far as I know.

No, I actually kept rewinding. I'm like, I actually wanna hear this and then kept falling asleep.

Yeah.

And it was so, yeah, that's what the state of state is meant to--

It was real weird, I got it.

Yeah, it was really relaxing and yeah, we were--

Visuals, I got tons of visuals about like this. What I didn't know was iridescent, I didn't even know what it was, but then I saw it was like a pool, like a clear pool of water at like ocean and then like these lines came up and like they started cascading down into all these different colors. It's really interesting. But yeah, I thought that was pretty, prove is in the pudding type thing, like, you know. And you even mentioned like this is something that like, you knew about data healing, but it seems like a little not up your alley, but then I also think that's important like for a lot of this stuff, I noticed like, we've watched a fair amount of things in altered states, like on YouTube, where like, you know, even when I was into like relatively woo stuff, like five years ago, I would have been like, this is insane.

Like this is like totally--

Just talking about shapes and colors.

Yeah, just like weird shit, but like when it hits you right at the right time, it like weirdly and strangely makes sense, which I think is pretty cool.

Yeah, in general, I really like this like very, I don't know how to call it like, it's not vague, but removing you yourself completely and just having healing be the objective and no detail about like, you know, every, 'cause if you just address one part of it of your depression or even of physically, yeah, it becomes symptomatic. But also in the I'm Ward book, it's like you literally just step out and just let like the divine sort of light trying through you onto the situation. Because sometimes you're in certain situations where you feel stuck and you don't always know a way out and you're not supposed to know, it's not your job to know how a certain, the person should behave or what they should do or eat or like not do.

And it doesn't really matter. All you have to do is to want the best for that person. And then from the I'm Ward book, there was the concept of like wonder, which was really cool. And then you just step back and you have this feeling of wonder and you just wait to see what happens. So that to me was, I remember we were talking about like the imagination, like manifestation techniques. And I started thinking not even like a certain outcome, but like not even any feeling or anything. It's just, you know, you say, I'm Ward through this situation, I'm Ward through this person's confusion or I'm Ward through whatever, my depression.

And then you just have faith that like something incredible and amazing is gonna come out of it. And you just sit back and wait with wonder, like what's gonna happen. And I found that to be.

Yeah, that was something that I originally in the Neville Goddard thing where he didn't talk about this. But I was advising people and I still do when you're using like the basic technique of just like finding something you want going into that state of kin to sleep, which I, they called Sats, Sats.

So maybe that is the state.

The state, exactly what I was thinking. But if you attach, you know, your feelings and your visual and sensory input, but you also like load in that sense of like, oh my God, I imagine this for myself too, that state of wonder really does seem to be a trigger that like really propels it forward in like a pretty tangible way. 'Cause it is a feeling that everyone has access to, like even if they're like, I don't know what I want, like I don't know what I wanna be doing. They know like when they were a kid or like when something exciting happened, what that feels like.

'Cause even like a certain feeling that, you know, in a moment you imagine that this is what you want and that's what's gonna make you happy. Maybe it's not, you know? Like maybe you do a really good job imagining something and then you get it and then that's not it.

Which is really common for people.

Yeah, so then it just becomes sort of like a treasure hunt, you know, where you're like, oh, I imagine that and I'm manifested that and now I can do this and then what if that's not, you know?

Like you content or--

Yeah.

Well that's why I think focusing on those meta-states is pretty important because it tends to encompass all of the things that, like that's like one of the first questions a lot of people are asking me. It's like, well, I want all these different things. You know, like how do I, do I imagine each of them individually? And I think that is valid to an extent, but like if you pick like a meta-state, like fulfillment, contentment, bliss, you know on a subconscious level.

You're just using those scenarios as like--

Triggers to get to the state.

Yeah, exactly.

And don't be so caught up on the actual thing if it happens or not. It was just treated as like ammunition to get you to that state and be open to other ways in which you might--

And the cool thing is--

Feel it in the end.

Those things tend to happen and it would also be foolish to think that your conscious mind would have access to everything you truly desired. Like your subconscious is gonna actually feed you those things. You're only gonna be able to be so aware of it consciously what you would like. So if you just trust that, you know, you're going to give yourself the best things that you really want. You don't have to nail the specific outcomes and ways and means and bridge of incidents of what's going on. What, are you checking your phone?

No, I'm asking you lots of time days. (laughing)

It's the jeez.

I'm, this is an important part of, you know.

It is thought. I'm fully naked. It should be noted too.

Jeez.

I mean--

Why not?

What do you mean no I'm not?

Okay, whatever.

I mean, it's not like a part of the podcast. That's just the testament to how hot it is.

It's hot. It's really hot inside.

Yeah. Anyway, continue.

I don't know what I was saying. Something, something imagination. (laughing) They just do the podcast for me. It's just something, something imagination. Do you want to take a guess how long we've been recording?

No, yes, 45 minutes.

Well, that's pretty close, 38 minutes. That's pretty close. I thought it was like 20.

Really?

Yeah.

I was like--

Are we done yet?

Oh, really?

No, no, I just, I guess it was getting really hot, but I'm good to continue.

We both have a problem.

Continue.

More brains tend to shut down.

Yeah, that's scary.

Also, not great for me because I'm always kind of on the threshold of being hot. Yeah, you felt me. Like I've been like this since I'm a kid. I just run super hot and I literally--

Men are supposed to be a little warmer than women.

Yeah, that's what they say. I guess that's true. I don't know the physiological background of that. I think I read something it was about like fat cells or like something, but I don't really know what it is.

Maybe.

That's one of--

What else do we not know?

Well, quite a bit, and again, it doesn't prevent me from speaking about any of it, so.

I like it.

The perfect example is me falling asleep for 40 minutes of this thing and then getting on a podcast and talking about what you told me about it.

That's great.

Yeah. I do recommend that they say, well, also dovetails, something that I'm gonna talk about on the next solo cast, which is this idea of making a deal with yourself that you're gonna accomplish everything you wanna accomplish. We're gonna deep level when you go to sleep, which to me is just like an amazing hack in life because it means that if you encounter like a very difficult problem or issue or even emotion or circumstance, like instead of trying to consciously like slave away and figure it out, you can just go to sleep and get it done. And it really does work like, I.

Yeah, in the middle of a fucking, when we were literally about the tip and the boat in the middle of a storm, you went downstairs trying to take a nap so that.

Yeah, I did, and it, who used to say that's not the reason we didn't die? Who knows, yeah, oh, it was amazing that fucking boat ride. I spoke about it for the patrons. Jesus Christ, that boat, I really like it.

And I know that it sounds like we're totally exaggerating, but we actually weren't.

No, well, no one should trust me because that was really the third time I've ever been on a sailboat. I mean, I've seen what they do, I'm not like an idiot, but you grew up on a boat.

No, no, it was insane.

Yes.

Like we, yeah.

It's fucking crazy.

But we didn't die.

And we were in the middle of the open sea in the new moon, no light.

No light.

Huge storm.

Huge waves.

Once again, the level of danger, I'm shielded from it.

And there was a fire in the boat.

Yeah, there's a fire in the engine room.

And then the fire extinguisher would not go off, so it's actually thrown out.

Jesus Christ.

It was insane.

Yeah.

It was like from a fucking movie.

I'm very glad I didn't understand Turkish 'cause I couldn't get the details.

And the kids were screaming and crying, that didn't help.

I said that I gave them a full pass 'cause they were just outwardly expressing what was going on in my head. I was like, all right.

Yeah.

This is how I feel. They're just letting it out. Yeah, well, we didn't die.

We made it.

We did make it, and it was pretty good. A pretty good trip. We stepped back on that boat today.

Yeah, that was good, that was necessary.

It's not called parking a boat, right? It's called docking. What is it called when it's just--

Well, docking if you're on a dock.

Yeah, but what is it if you just drop an anchoring boat? Okay, I kept calling it parking. I'm like, that doesn't sound right.

I've never, well, some people say, I don't know.

I think it's wrong to say that. Frog is wrong.

Frog is wrong.

Yeah, well, we didn't die, so that was nice. Thanks for not killing me.

Well, I was dowsing all the time.

Yeah, that's--

We were working. I'm like, what are you doing? Do you hear about any shit? I feel like I'm the only one--

You're tracking, yeah. - Well, the best part of it, best being an optional word there is, everyone you could see had their freak out point. So first, it was like the kids. They're freaking out because it's a scary situation. Next was probably me, 'cause I'm pretty sure we're gonna tip, and that's bad in open sea. I'm pretty sure that's not what you want to have. It's a huge boat.

Oh, man. So then-- - So just to clarify, basically, the rope to release the main sail got stuck in a very crucial turn moment, so that's what happened, but--

Yeah, it got stuck on a turn. So what that sounds like is not a big deal. What it feels like is the boat wildly with it, and how tall is it? It's like 50 meter? It's like so tall, the mass to this thing. It's taller than any of these other boats around us. So it whips this huge, what is that thing called?

Like instantly-- - Oh, God.

We were sideways.

Yeah. And then the sail, yeah, he was horizontal. So I think what had happened is--

Well, he wasn't horizontal, he was vertical, because the boat was-- - Yeah, he was vertical. The boat was horizontal. He was still vertical, hanging on. Like the Titanic. I went to the back to smoke a cigarette, 'cause I was like, I think we had already had a dicey situation before that. So I was like, I'm calmed down.

Yeah, it was really bad stuff.

And then we tried to turn and dock.

Basically, we got to keep going, because we just couldn't take down the main sail, 'cause the weather didn't allow it.

Yeah, 'cause if you take it down, it'll tip. Or what I later found out is you told me that, "Oh, the mass will just break." And then your down--

I didn't say that, my sister, that's what she thought.

Okay, she really ate it to you, and then your dad told her that--

No.

That's not actually what will happen. What will happen is the front of the boat will just go under the water.

And then we would very quickly sink.

Yeah.

Which I didn't know, which is good.

It's just good, didn't know that.

Anyway, everyone was--

Anyway, it's just fine, so-- (laughs)

You're like enough about how much--

But one thing that came up with the dowsing was this thing about humor and courage. And then any time we were just doing stupid, funny shit and singing and stuff, things tended to be--

Ria was really good at raising the frequency. I mean, it was definitely nuts, and it was long.

Oh my God, it was so long.

But I mean, I was saying--

Nine hours, eight hours.

Not more than that.

No, I'm probably-- - 'Cause you didn't get there to like--

Tries, that's true.

But it was really interesting to see and even a very tense, long, tense, pressure-filled moment that I did go downstairs and I closed my eyes and I was like, there's no reason not to do this.

Right.

And you do what the dowsing, there comes a point where you just know that something worked and it happened and I've seen you do this a million times.

Oh, the cheering thing we were gonna say.

Yeah, yeah, the cheering thing, yeah, to explain that. Explain the cheering thing.

So, I, well, did you ever talk about dowsing?

No. - On this show?

Explain that, yeah.

So, dowsing is something that can be done with the pendulum, so you, there are many ways of doing it, but the way I do it is I just think about the situation and then the pendulum either swings counterclockwise or clockwise and if it swings counterclockwise, it means there is something that needs to be cleared first, like a negative energy that needs to be neutralized and then I just let it, you know, just turn and it just keeps going until it does its job and then when it's done, it just stops and then it starts turning clockwise on its own and that's when you like turn the dark energy into light and like, you know, into love and coherence, I usually use those words and sometimes, I mean, I do it for situations, for health stuff, for plants, all sorts of things and--

Internet.

Even internet connection.

Get the last episode up, that's how it's done.

Well, that was insane. It went literally down to 117 bytes per second.

Yeah, I've never even seen bytes in like 1997.

And he's like, that's it. Even if it goes below like 100 kilobytes or whatever it's done, it just gives you an error.

If it's the most finicky upload thing I've ever used, I don't have like a cloud system or anything, it just doesn't work.

That was insane.

And then it did work.

And then it just never worked for the rest of the day again.

Yeah, for everyone, you used all the internet in the area. So it does really work.

Oh, so every now and then, of course, mostly with plants for me for some reason, because it feels like so above my, you know, it's like nature, so big, and I feel not as, you know, like powerful for that stuff for some reason. So I have these moments of doubt, but recently I started imagining like this really super loud cheering, like that I'm almost like, you know, and you're in a stadium and you're in the cheering and like it's so loud and such high energy that it muffles the doubt and it muffles like every negative thought or like limiting beliefs that you have about a situation. And it's been working really well for me lately, so.

Yeah, that's a good one.

'Cause you were saying you could also just use it in your imagination stuff.

Yeah, I mean, I think anything that-

Like you're bouncing a ball thing, yeah. Like if someone throws, you imagine like, let's say you're going through like a challenging situation, like a boat's trying to kill you again. And you imagine someone throwing like a big weighted ball down towards you and you catch it and the force of the ball brings your hands down, but then you like, you know, put it through your legs and then use that momentum to throw it back up. That's basically the equivalent of kind of using the force of a situation and then creating some stimulus that reinforces that you're actually directing it where you want to go.

And the cheering sounds very similar to that. And I think it would be incredibly useful to use that in imaginal techniques just because anything that feels real, even if it's like, it's just a sense, like an audio sense of like hearing something is just incredibly powerful. 'Cause it's like, we know what it feels like to kind of be in that state. I also like the idea of, you know, you've played in clubs, you know what it's like, you know, when you're in a place where live music or electronic music is being played and like there's those moments where like the energy of the crowd is just like so fucking electric.

And it's like, you just, you know, you can have exciting moments but there's those special moments where it's like, holy shit, summoning that as a feeling too for stuff that you're trying to do is very potent and powerful as well. It's like the same type of thing as the change.

Yeah, muffling the doubt is the most important thing for me.

And recognizing doubt as a valid tool towards as something to be worked with. I mean, I really feel like I talk about this a lot during the readings too, which is like, you're not fucking up if you have doubts. Like, it's actually there to show you something. Like in the same way that like a lot of people who go through, or put themselves through challenging like situations in life, but you're not doing that 'cause you made a mistake. You're not doing it because you fucked up. You're doing it because you're showing yourself a polarity that when you transcend it, you'll be far more grateful for having encountered it if you just were like handed it, no problem.

You wouldn't appreciate it to the same or like someone.

Right, but when you have doubt, like deep down, you know that there's no reason why you should doubt it or there's no reason why you shouldn't have this thing or why this plant shouldn't be healthy or whatever, but like you still have this moment where you're like, oh, what if, and then I guess--

Not even moments, sometimes.

It's interesting, like the cheering, the weight, the probably one of the reasons why it works is because it is such a high frequency situation and you summon that energy and that helps you sort of, 'cause like doubts are pretty low frequency. So in a way, you're kind of transcending that through like, you know, putting some high energy stuff on it.

Yeah, I mean, I try to look at doubt as like--

'Cause if you think about it too much, then you get sucked into the doubt. Like mentally, it's difficult to get through it. I think it's, to me, it's more effective to like, not in a ignoring like, what's the word, a version type way.

Type way, but just kind of like healing in a healing way.

I still think it's a tool, like I have had this happen to me whether it's like a physical thing, like the dysentery or an emotional thing, like you use those circumstances as like, propellants, because they're really potent, like even if it's low frequency, like if it's dominant, it's strong, it could be a strong low frequency, like a base tone. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

And you sometimes, I guess, certain moments of doubt, you can always say, well, you know, there's a reason why this plant is sick and there's something I'm meant to learn about why it's sick and what I could've done and whatever. But like, about some things, you're just like--

I don't need this.

I don't need this.

No, that's important too.

And then I'm allowed to have a healthy plant and I don't need to know why--

That's what it takes for it to be healthy. I can use my time making music or whatever. Or like, whatever it is for you in that moment where you're like, I don't need a lesson from this right now. I just--

Yeah, tamp it down. Doubt, fear, worry, and anxiety aren't always productive states.

That's what I was trying to get at.

I do think that's true. I've just kind of embraced this mindset of like challenging circumstances often can be very powerful opportunities for transcending like a big thing. We've spoken about that, like, you know, when you're ready to transcend something, you get hit with it over and over and over again.

And maybe, yeah, maybe the role of that doubt is to teach you how to become a better dozer where you're just like able to do this in this situation where in another time you might be able to help someone with the terminal illness. Because you have so much practice transcending doubt.

Yeah, it's pretty good stuff. Yeah, the dowsing is really fucking incredible. I got a pendulum, I admittedly haven't used it that much. But you are also doing this thing where you were mentally dowsing.

Right.

That was cool too.

Yeah, just visualizing the spiral. 'Cause yeah, I think there really is something about that movement that's just how energy works.

Yeah, it spins.

Yes, that's what the shock risers are. They're spinning, the use of energy. I think that's where the root of the work actually comes from.

So yeah, visualizing it works too.

Yeah, it's pretty fucking cool. I mean, I've seen like a lot of crazy stuff that I've imagined come to pass with that bridge of like physicality, I think, is really important.

It's a good tool.

Yeah, 'cause it's-

And yeah, and then every time it works, it like gets stronger and stronger. So yeah, that's really cool.

Yeah, I've never really encountered anything quite as potent that I've seen someone else do. The internet, as trivial as it may seem-

That's insane.

It's so weird 'cause like everyone knows how internet works. Like it's not something that's usually like, it's like an immutable law. Like you don't have a connection. You don't have a connection to see it literally go from 117 bytes to like 263 kilobytes and like actually get the episode up. That was pretty nuts.

That was pretty crazy.

I think we nailed it. I think we nailed this episode.

Did we?

I do believe we did.

You were actually gonna use it.

I'm actually gonna put this out tomorrow.

Oh my God.

Is there anything, do you want people to find out? But most people usually are like, you know, I want people to work. Do you want people to know stuff? You make music, you've done all the cool things in the world building pyramids. We didn't even speak about any of this shit you're doing. We just spoke about stuff.

If I do anything interesting, we'll talk again. You're always doing something interesting. But I'll put links to your Instagram so you can get more followers.

Cool.

I know that's super important to you. (laughing) Thank you.

Thank you. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

Hope you enjoyed that episode. Go find Denise at all of the links in this episode. She's super fucking cool. She'll be on again in the not too distant future. We always have stuff to talk about. The conversations we don't record are also fucking amazing, but we'll try to get more recorded once out. Thanks for listening. The Patreon, like I mentioned, that's the place to be right now. The Discord server that we have there for the crypto stuff is fucking good. If you're interested, even in the slightest, here's the investment. You have to make $7.77. For one month, go check it out. See if you like it, if you don't fucking leave, you what, $7.

What do you spend $7 on, $8 on? Stupid shit, probably, all the time. This is probably gonna be one of the best investments. I know everyone who's joined in the past few months has more than made their money back for the year for everything, so it's a good place to go. I know I'm getting a lot more questions during the readings about what crypto is or people who are invested, what should they do? For those of you who know, I spoke about this extensively, there's a lot of stuff on YouTube back from 2017 and '18, and even 2013, it was my first YouTube video when I discovered Bitcoin, so you can go and find out a lot of free information if you don't wanna pay or say you don't have the money, which is just not true, you have the money.

Everyone has the money, no matter what. So that's it for this episode, and until next week, happy imagining.

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