Alex Grey

[Music] Welcome to Synchronicity. Fun guest is with Du-- I mean, you've clicked into the episode, you've tapped into the episode, both literally and figuratively. You know who it is. It's Alex Gray. I mean, I feel like, is there one person who's listening who doesn't know who Alex is? Is that possible? I don't know. But if you don't, if you're one of those people who don't know who Alex is, he is a visionary artist, a mystic, one of the coolest people I've now met, but have known about, is just doing some incredible work along with his amazing wife, Allison, over at Cosum, Chapel of Sacred Mirrors, and Enthion, which I was lucky enough to get a tour of the inside of it, because it's not open to the public yet, with Alex right before we recorded this, and I was just blown away. And a lot of the conversation stems from me just processing what they're doing there, how far this has come, what it's kind of going to mean for people who visit that. I mean, it's a pretty awesome place, and I could use as many superlatives as, you know, I like to do, but it wouldn't do it justice. So if you're able to get there, especially after it opens, I think you'll be really impressed and just kind of feel the vibe of the place. So when I got there, just to provide some background, I got there a little bit earlier, more early to everything.

I parked, I went and I've been to Cosum before for a full moon gathering, which are really cool, these night events where they build a big bonfire and there's music and there's this cool tent, this like planetarium tent. Anyway, it's really cool, but I haven't been there during the day and just kind of like been there when no one else is there. And it's just a very tranquil, peaceful, sacred place for lack of a better term. And I got to hang out with a lovely gray cat for about 20 minutes. We played and then I got a tour of Enthion and then went to Alex and Allison's studio. And man, there's some really cool stuff there, including an awesome painting he's working on of Ram Daz and Hanuman and Maharaji. It's really fucking cool. Anyway, it was just an amazing experience and it just imparted. It really conveyed to me how important it is to have people like Alex and Allison doing what they're doing. It's not easy just to be clear. I know several people who are trying to build these places, these physical spaces where people can commune and do it in like a really nice way, not just have it be debauchery and crazy and Dionysian orgies. Not that there's anything wrong with that if you want to do that, but also have it kind of be a dwelling for people who want to kind of explore their inner worlds and have something that helps facilitate that. And obviously, if you've seen Alex's work and Allison's work, you know that their art and their creativity really conveys a ton of that. It just carries directly through it. And you know we've had a ton of conversations on this podcast about art and creativity. And that's of course what this one is about. So before I go any further, I want to talk about something that happened towards the end of this episode, which you won't hear I edited it out. And I actually, I very rarely feel bad about just a situation. And I do in this particular one. And let me tell you what happens.

And my deepest apologies to Allison. So when I originally reached out to Alex and Allison, it was probably like two or three years ago to set this up. And it we've kind of stayed in touch here and there via email and social media. But somewhere in me setting this up, it got lost in the shuffle that I also wanted Allison to be a part of it. And so what ended up happening is I went upstairs to this little nook that Alex and Allison have in their studio and I recorded with Alex. And also they were getting ready to go to Yom Kippur services about an hour away from where they were. So there was a little bit of a time crunch, which I knew going in plus the tour of Enthion kind of cut into that. But anyway, I did the podcast with Alex. And unbeknownst to me, I thought Allison was doing something or was busy, but she was downstairs, I guess, listening to the podcast and felt excluded. And I truthfully went through painstaking efforts at the beginning of the process to make sure that I knew it. They both knew I wanted to talk to both of them. I think they're incredible people. And they are like this wonderful manifestation of feminine and masculine energies together as two separate people. So I felt really bad because she was hurt and she was upset. And I tried to explain to her that trust me, I really, really, really, really wanted you to be a part of this too. I really thought you had something to do. I don't know how much she was buying it. I think she was just thought I was making it up. So here's my request to everyone listening to this. If you see Allison, ever, and for the rest of your life, tell her that Noah is sorry. Noah from Synchronicity is sorry that somehow this got lost in the shuffle that she wasn't included. I obviously reached out to her immediately and told her that day that I would love to come back and do a podcast with her and the both of them. And what's weird is the whole encounter, while it was like a pretty intense situation, it just kind of felt like a family argument more than anything. Like she was very open and transparent about her feelings. And I really respect that.

And I just genuinely felt bad that she felt excluded. So you'll hear kind of the telling chips me and Alex are having a conversation and it's kind of like, oh shit, that's what happened there. Truthfully, I think they're both so incredibly great. I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. I'm honored and just feel very grateful to have spent some time with him and like, he's just a cool dude. So is Allison too. And I've hung with her at some events personally too. And she's very wonderful. So yeah, I think you're going to enjoy this episode. I'm glad it happened. Very glad it happened. And what else do I have to say kind of ran out of steam on that sentence and just kept talking. So this week, there's not going to be an ad for anything just because I'm too lazy to stitch the music in below it. But I will be doing ads. Also, I think like legitimately, I actually have a real advertiser. So I want to give one buffer episode. So it doesn't seem like I'm a making fun of the people who are doing it and be totally undermining my silly kind of satire of, you know, podcast advertisements. And just to be clear, I always said this multiple times.

I really don't have a problem with anyone advertising on their podcast. Some of my favorite podcasters run ads all over their shows, especially in the beginning. I think there's just a way to kind of do it that doesn't feel weird these days. And I think some podcasters really do a great job of that Duncan comes to mind of how he weaves his in. But at the end of the day, I just feel like there's got to be a better system for how to do it. So that's what I'm doing. I'm not taking shots at any particular people who are doing that. I just, you know, this me and Alex were talking about it a little before we recorded just the weirdness of the energy of money. It's just such an odd thing, especially when we start relating it to things like podcast and art and creativity. So, you know, I'm not do that ad this week. But I'll do fake ads all the time. Maybe I'll do a fake ad at the end. Who knows? Anyway, Patreon people love you. You're awesome. People who rate and review got in a really nice one. Whoever left that. Thank you. I appreciate it. It makes me happy when I'm reading who wouldn't if you if you want me to review you, just send me an email, know@sinkpodcast.com say, Hey, this is who I am. I'll review you give you five stars. You'll see how it feels. It's fucking wonderful. Okay, that's it. Big thanks to Patrick Nemczyk, who always just is the biggest supporter always. That's it. Let's get to this episode with Alex. Hopefully we will have Alison on soon. Big thanks to everyone listening. Lots of love without further ado. Here is Alex.

Thank you for doing this, by the way. I'm incredibly honored that you're taking your time to do this. And I know this is as much for the recording as anything else. But really, it means a lot to me that you're doing this. You bet. No. So I just got an awesome tour of Enthion and what's going to be in there. And it got me thinking also before I was hanging out with your cat, just admiring the tranquility of this place. Yes. And it made me think of what when you envisioned building a sacred space or having a sacred area. Did you imagine this specifically or did it kind of emerge over time that you had an idea to do it? Like, what was the genesis of Cosm?

Well, the genesis of Cosm really came about, I think, through Alison's and my getting together, ultimately, I'd have to say. And the kind of experience that we had back in 1985 on MDMA, first time we took MDMA, we got it from the guy who had just bought the sacred mirrors. Oh, sorry. Yeah. It was 85. We just moved to New York. And this collector was interested in the sacred mirrors. And so we thought, wow, awesome. It was July 4th. So we agreed to sell them to him. And then he said, you know, I'm going through some therapy with the substance. And I know you're into psychedelics. So maybe you'd be interested if you had never tried it. So that weekend we tried it. And both Alison and I had a vision of the chapel. And it was a round room and all the sacred mirrors were in it. And I saw the sacred mirrors had frames. They currently did not have frames. And so when we came out of this state, and I don't think of MDMA as really a visionary substance at all, but both of us had a glimpse of this round chapel.

And so we were really puzzling about it. But we both felt that he was a wonderful fellow, Marshall Frankel. And it turned out his he died shortly after, sadly. And but his daughter, daughters remain friends to this day. And she is a collector who donated back Gaia to be in Enthion. Wow. So she's been a remarkable, helpful person, Bec's Frankel. Great lady. It's interesting to me that it was on MDMA. I've only heard one other person say they had a vision on MDMA and it's my wife. She said she saw an angel. And this was in the lower side of New York, not where angels, you would think angels would typically be hanging out. But she was adamant that this is something she saw when she was a young girl. And she saw it right next to a police officer of all people, right? Yeah. And it always, you know, I've met a lot of people have done a lot of psychedelics. I've never until you just said this heard of anyone saying any vision or it's interesting that it's got the angelic kind of chapel theme to it. Yeah, it's very interesting. I never really, that's cool. I think it's fascinating. It's like what is what does love look like? Yeah. And so it took us a long time to realize that's what it's about. You know, a sacred space is about the love of individuals collectively brought together to worship through their offering, a gift to the future, really, because it's an activity that is a worshipful activity, simply building a sacred space. And I mean, it also sounds like a microcosm of what earthly existence is, right? Absolutely. I mean, that's kind of what, I mean, listen. It's a model.

It's a model. Yeah, exactly. Like it serves as kind of a reminder that, well, okay, so let me just shift gears radically, because on the way down here, I don't think I ever listened to the end of it. I was listening to Duncan's podcast that he did with you and Allison. And he was really, obviously, clearly in a creative right, he was really talking about resistance and a lot of these things. And what kept emerging from both you and Allison is this idea of embracing kind of love and letting that kind of guide not only your creative decisions in life as an artist or choosing to be an artist, but just your life. And it's not something you necessarily hear all the time from artists. I think that the trope or the myth that we hear a lot of in this culture is the suffering artist, right? One who, and there's not that they're mutually exclusive, but I don't think they're certainly not. You don't hear kind of the love behind the art.

It may be there and people resonate with it, but you don't hear the story or the narrative about it. And that's something that I just love so much about what both of you do is that you overtly and explicitly say, like, this is what's going on, yet you also do it in a way that's not overly kind of in people's faces where it shoves them away. And I think that's a tough thing to do. I mean, how do you? Okay, let's talk about this. How do you, how, when did it become apparent to you that love was kind of this omniscient, omnipresent force that really we all are part of? I think that both of us experienced it in our psychedelic experiences, individually, and we recognized in each other the opening of this kind of infinite love that is our source. And since it was something that we had both experienced, we could see the sacred mirror in each other, you know, that once one recognizes that that is the source and supply of your, you know, sort of soul, then that juice is what lights up your life. And you recognize that you're on a transformative path. And that by choosing to be together, choosing the path of relationship, it's a transformative path. It's not something you're going to remain the same once you enter into it. And that is also like psychedelics. Yeah, tell me about it. You, you are opening yourself up to embrace the where your soul is directed to find the meaning in life and what is the most positive and uplifting thing that you could possibly do with your life, you know, and, and what is a true gift to the world that you have that that's our whole thing is like each one of us is born with certain gifts and that it's really our quest, you know, our spiritual quest, creative quest is to discover what that is. And each artist goes through a certainly a very similar kind of thing there. They're trying to find themselves graphically and find themselves in whatever medium they're developing. What's their unique voice? Do they have a unique gift that they can offer the world?

Do you think that everyone has the potential to be an artist in? Absolutely. Everyone is an artist. Everyone is an artist. That's because every thought we think is a creation. Yes. We can't help but create stuff. We create thoughts constantly. Yeah, whether we want some of them are stupid, some of them are great, some are them are funny, some of them, you know, they're, they're creations. So we we can't help but be creative. That is true. I wonder I personally just it's a leading question so I could give the affirmation. I of course agree, but it feels like I remember a very early psychedelic experience I had with some friends in a hotel room. We're still in high school, I think, and I was telling one of my friends. I was like, anyone can do whatever they want in life. They just have to do it. And it was met with this was a babysitter. They weren't tripping. They're like, no, that's not accurate. Like, that's not how life it is. Like, no, like, I know it is. Like, I, I guarantee that's how it is. I'm not saying you can get immediately what you want. It's instant gratification, but like anyone, if they said, I remember specifically having the conversation, I was like, if someone really wanted to become an artist, like drawing, and it's not, I'm not an artist. I don't know how to draw that well. I was like, someone could do it. If that was what they wanted to do, they could. And I think, unfortunately, unfortunately, but one of the characteristics of our Western culture or culture in general, it just stamps that out or it feels like an oppressive kind of counterweight towards people recognizing that that's something that not only is that anyone can do or that they are an artist, but it's almost like a necessary thing that people need to do. I took me 30 years to realize if I don't make art, I lose my mind.

Like, it happens. It may be slow. It may be quick, depending on what is going on in my life, but if there's not that creative output, man. Well, you know, that's what Otto Rock said. Otto Rock was one of Freud's students, you know. And so he felt that neurotics were basically unexpressed creative people. And so that it makes you crazy if you can't get your creativity out in some way. So, there's so many ways now, you know, to work that. And as people work with their phones more and things like that and do become very harmful and considered in what they're doing, I think that the understanding that the right view on something really does matter.

And you can look at that all the way up or down. Yes, you can. I mean, it's absolutely true. I just feel that it feels to me that we're going through a cultural renaissance in a lot of ways, just not only in the art world and in the arts and humanities, but it just feels like people are now a have the ability to express themselves more than any other point in history. I mean, it's just incredible whether it's taking a picture with your phone, creating a song and a free program that comes with your computer or phone. It's insane. But then at the same time, we also kind of have this again kind of we're still operating off this weird operating system that everyone needs to go and get a job and do things like this. And that's why again, to tie this back to what you're doing here, it's so important. The idea of turning art and having it be a religion or religious experience, I think is probably the most true religion I can think of, right? And I'm a big Buddhist fan. I like lots of aspects of lots of different religions and philosophies. But the non dog, it's dogma proof, right? Isn't it?

Isn't art. Yeah, you get artists in there. None of them agree. Yes. And all of them have a great idea. So I mean, that's the art arena becomes an arena for the embrace of multiple points of view. And we wouldn't know about any of the great traditions, any of the great world religions, unless they had art. So if art was your religion, then you'd basically be adopting all world religions because they're all they all have creative expression. So in that way, you're part of the great sequential flow of historic cultural concrescences of sacredness in the beautiful temples, the beautiful teachings, the beautiful practices, all of these elements are creative expressions of the cultural soul. And through that model, we can go all the way back to the caves. We can go back to the Neanderthals. You know, when this white head, I think it was that said that, you know, the unit in order for a universe to exist, there has to be three things or something like that.

There has to be nothing. There has to be everything and the creative advance into novelty, you know, basically. And so this creative advance into novelty or evolution, you know, in our hands is basically, that's what's going on in the universe. Yes. We're creative. Yes. That's all we are. And so when we recognize it and we say, Oh, it's sacred stuff, that doesn't, it doesn't take that much of a leap and it's certainly no mythology. It's just what's happening. It's real. It is. It's what it is. Yeah. How, what do you view the earth realm? Like, what's your, where does earth fit in your cosmology? You're like personal, spiritual cosmology? Like what, what is earth?

School. Earth's great, right? Totally. Like we're saying, you know, it's the learning environment, it's the ultimate learning environment. And you know, it's my, I don't know, intuition that there are beings from all over the cosmos that come and want to incarnate like a ride, like a lion at meow wolf. They want to come and have a human incarnation and be able to experience God in the way that we can, because we're unique. We got this God detector. Yeah. And, you know, it isn't every kind of, you know, neural net that can process that. So I think that that's ultimately what we were designed to do to make contact with our Creator and to do it through acts of love, then and express it in the world as well. And to create the recreate the sacredness that we feel inside of us when we relate to the life web. So you, I mean, maybe the best I've ever heard it put just now. It's sometimes people when I ask that question, you know, they'll, I don't want to speculate this, that and the other thing. But I think it's important to be direct when we talk about some of these things, especially if we've come to these conclusions, not willy nilly because we read it in a book, but through personal experience because I think this is more and more people are sensitive to that kind of idea of what earth is and loves place in it and why we're here to the point where I don't hear the question from as much, at least internally, what's the meaning of life? Like, I think I get it. It doesn't mean like I've mastered it by any stretch of the imagination. But I think I get it. And I think the more that that's set out loud and kind of reinforced, it helps people recognize that and gives them some kind of, not just the theological perspective, but a personal perspective, because when you take that viewpoint, this becomes very sacred, the entire part of it. And when you can weave through that, just on a daily day-to-day, you know, when you can do that with the process, it's transformative.

Your whole life really does change. And I don't mean you're, again, it's not a wish-fulfilling jewel in a sense. I mean, it is, but it's not in the sense that immediately everything comes to you in your life is great and wonderful at the time. But it's just, it's incredible how dreamlike it can get when you kind of tap into it. I mean, yeah, you're laughing because you get it. I mean, it's nuts. And I think that I want to, I want to bring this down to a practical level too, because I've noticed on Twitter, you get into this. And I think it's really important. It's something that I've kind of returned to since I've had a kid, because I think you start thinking about the future a lot more in terms of linear time. What's going on today politically and kind of social activism-wise? I see the spiritual community kind of fractured, probably not too, probably a lot more, but people who actively recognize the importance of engaging, calling out, maybe not protesting all of the time, but really calling attention with whatever way they can to what's going on. And then another camp that is kind of using some of these spiritual level-ups or perspectives to kind of avert their gaze at what's going on. And it's easier to avert your gaze when you're a white, straight male, because you're benefiting from the system. So I wonder what is your personal outlook on kind of what we're being seen? I sense deeply that you're a very optimistic person. How can you not be when you recognize what love is? But what do you feel in terms of where we are in this point in history? What's going on right now? What the fuck is going on?

You're familiar probably with Groff's perinatal matrices. Yes, but explain it for people, please, not everyone is. Okay, Stanislav Groff, one of the world's great LSD psychotherapists and psychiatrists and has been researching psychedelics like all his life, basically, and integrating it with a system of psychology, transpersonal psychology, and things that's really extraordinary. But part of the things that he noticed in his thousands of settings that he sat with various people going through their journeys. One of the things that he noticed was that certain energies or would characterize certain phases of their journey. And he used the name perinatal because it similar to birth process. And so there were four stages that he noted. The first stage was the basically happy warm womb, everything safe and snuggly. You know how that feels in your bed and nice. And so then BPM number two is the feeling of now the walls are crushing me. Now what was safe before is no longer safe, and I am trapped. And so the sense of panic, the sense of fear, the sense of despair, the sense of everything having gone wrong. Sounds so familiar. Yeah, that this just can't be right. Oh no, I may be dying. I'm in the pits. So that's BPM2. It's basically the existential like nausea. Yeah. Okay. So now BPM3. So now what? Okay. This is when the violent expulsion of the body occurs from the womb and through the dangerous trajectory to birth out through the painful canals and everything like that. So no one's happy about it. It's a very violent and disruptive catastrophic disastrous apocalyptic battle fields. People go through these horrendous kind of like the walls are crashing in. There's a fire. There's you know, like whatever it is, it's a, it's a apocalyptic blizzard of apocalyptic kind of like sensations, you know, in this, that's birth perinatal matrix number three. Number four is a new world.

We're somewhere between two and three, I think. I was gonna say, I'm feeling two, three. Yeah. Two and three, I think. Two and three is where it is, which is, I think it's an amazing opportunity too, because we know when we're just, when we're relating it to the, the natal process, like three out of three into four is painful, but also incredible, right? That's, you need that process to get to this completely new changed experience. I want, we don't know what you don't know what's being birthed. So you know, that's, now, and this is the other terrifying thing to everyone, because we don't, and it's, and it's, and, but we, this is why we all have to pull from the best place in us. If we don't get engaged, if we don't engage our hearts and put them toward our best efforts, in what ways we can. Now, sometimes that's simply creating a positive atmosphere in your home. That's right. That's right. And in your workplace, just, it's like, keep a, keep a lid on it, my friend, you know, be, be mindful. You live in a world of, a social world of, of, people who are as troubled and as, uh, enraged, probably as yourself. And, uh, so be kind.

And, uh, this is, this is always what the Dalai Lama says, you know, it's like the best part of anybody's religion is the kindness, you know, just be compassionate for goodness sake. And, uh, so, and, and along with, uh, what, helping whatever individual causes we can, and we feel most, uh, drawn to and things, I think obviously, uh, voting is very important for Americans. And, uh, keeping our eyes and our, uh, you know, basically megaphones on, you know, to say, this is not normal, this is not right. We have been invaded. There's a poison amidst us, you know, Putin's poison has to be taken out as soon as possible. And, uh, you know, we'll try to heal our system. Yeah, I mean, and I like to, I like to think of it. I don't know if this is accurate is kind of like a vaccine, right?

And that's what I hope that this is what we're living in between two and three now is that you need a dose of the bad stuff to get inoculated from it. So if the real stuff comes, I mean, the one good thing I can say about Trump and company is they're idiots. Like they're just not that smart. It doesn't mean that they're not going to be successful. It doesn't mean that they can't do an incredible amount of harm, but they're not good at hiding it. I mean, the people you want to be afraid of or the people you don't know are doing the things that are fucking things up. Doesn't mean it's a good thing, but I hope that this is rather than depressing people or freaking people out, which I think is a kind of normal reaction in a lot of ways. It, it allows people to recognize like, you know, this is the time. Maybe I don't need to be out there screaming at people that Trump is an asshole constantly, but maybe I do need to do what you said. Try to not be like Trump. Like this is what I was trying to tell people get really angry at Trump. I said, I guarantee there's something you do on a weekly, maybe a daily basis. That's Trump like, and it doesn't mean you're Donald Trump, but maybe you get rationally angry at someone. Maybe you don't take accountability for something you did in your life. And if you're not at the point where you've completely stamped all that out, which I've met those people yet, you probably are better served just focusing exactly what you said on your immediate environment. Because then when you have the skills and kind of equanimity to go out in the world and talk about this stuff, you'll be in a better position for people to hear you rather than just seeming like, you know, your regular Joe Shmo angry, liberal, angry, Republican, whatever it is. And you know, I don't know though, it's weird.

We're in a very, very memetic society, M E M, and it's just things proliferate so quickly. And so it's, it's just astounding. And it's psychedelic. And I think that's why people, I've been saying this for 15 years. I had a psychedelic experience where I took LSD, had taken it plenty of times before, took it and I didn't come down for three months. And it wasn't like I was, oh, my life was changed. I was tripping for three months, just flat out, interdimensionally, somewhere else for three months. And it was an incredible experience. And I got a lot of downloads, a lot of cosmic stuff that, you know, has been validated after the fact. But one of the things that struck me is the people who would, who had been, had any experience like a psychedelic experience, something transcendental would be in a much better position in the coming decades to deal with what felt like an imminent, not chaos, but confusion, right, where things can shift so quickly, just like it does during a psychedelic experience, where you need that kind of preparation in some way to navigate just regular life now. It's not like, oh, yeah, you want to be have control of your mind. So when you go journey into your soul, you can navigate. It's like, no, just like getting up and surviving now is that again, why I think what you're doing is so important, where you bring people together who maybe, maybe know that intuitively, but haven't heard someone say it or haven't seen someone else do it and creating those places that space holding that space and creating a physical space is just that's, that seems to be where things are going.

It's an oasis and a lot of creative people are doing it. A lot of creative people are making alternative gathering places. There's a lot of living room churches. Yes. This is basically what we have at Cosum, you know, it's remarkable how everyone feels at home there. And it's a wonderful home. And it was a home probably unlike any of us ever had, you know, but we all feel at home together there. Yeah. Yeah. It's, and that idea of home is something that there's a feeling, I don't know if I, if I'm totally confident in calling it in grace, but it's, it's something that I experience plenty of times in my life. But when I went down to Maui and was at the Romdas retreats two times, I felt it and could remember other times feeling it. And it's certainly something I feel every time I come here. It is just this, it's a home feeling, right? And like, I don't live here. I've been here once, but I know that it's funny. It's amazing. And I think the more people who a can get maybe a first taste of that and then recognize that it's, you know this, like I know this, it's everywhere.

Yeah, absolutely. But the places that have that concentrated intention of making it one of those types of places, I mean, that's an antidote to a lot of the stuff we're talking about, the negative stuff. And I think it doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. Like it doesn't have to be, it's amazing that there are people like you now listen who are building this place, but there are people who can take that same kind of energy and do it. Absolutely. That's amazing. Yeah. Absolutely. And this is the, I think it's the people all over the world are gathering, maybe outside of the boundaries of the sacred traditions they grew up in. Yes.

But nevertheless, for a sacred purpose and for, you know, strengthening our souls, really, as we move into the future, which I think could be one of the brightest kinds of futures, if we can imagine a planetary civilization where creativity is the spirituality that we can all orient ourselves toward. And every tradition is welcome. And we could help to heal what we have left of the life web. And we could fix the messes that we've created in the atmosphere, if possible. We can do carbon mining. We can do all kinds of creative things with the renewable and sustainable kinds of relationships with the earth to really revision our relationship with the planet and with the web of life is really what's critical now. And I think that the more that are, and this is what I think psychedelics are here to do, is to wake us up before we snuff the planet.

I mean, basically, right? I mean, I look at it like this. I did LSD when I was 15. So it was adolescent. My mind was changing anyway. But I look at it like before that I had my head firmly at my ass. Like, I thought I was the center of the universe. I just thought whatever. I wasn't like a sociopath, but I just wasn't thinking of other people immediately once you get kind of that. And you've mentioned this before, the multi perspective. I mean, your art is obviously an example of that. It is the most game changing thing that a mind can process when you realize just how interconnected everything is, and that everything you do from just your basic thoughts, it can be scary even. But it's truthfully one of those things that just changes your life radically when you recognize that this is an opportunity here to connect with other people.

And using that to its full potential, that's what changes the world at the end of the day. That's really what does it. Yeah. Well, holding a place where that's possible, and being one of those nodes, we're very happy to be developing something. We think that once antheon gets open, it will become like a, well, I don't know. It's a accelerator for hopefully for one's spiritual life. It is. I mean, I think people can get drawn into various accelerators for spiritual life. I have in my life, of course, what can be a book, can be a teacher, it can be an experience at a festival, anything. But yeah, if you have the intention of kind of onboarding people onto themselves, into themselves, I think that's what this is. Absolutely. That's just a critically important thing that we've seen it done in the past through religious kind of context. But again, the dogmatic things that can seep into their it becomes about the everybody having to believe the same thing, which is not what we're about.

You know, we're about you finding your creative center. I do think that there are certain universals that we all have a skeleton. We all have a circulatory system. There are certain things that are common amongst us, and we all have a skin color. We all have an energy system. We all have consciousness. You know, we all have a relationship with higher essence as well. And so how do you portray that? The idea of the sacred mirror is something that is trying to reveal the multiple dimensions of the nature of selfhood, and suggests that everyone is divine. Not that only special, you know, saints and enlightened mediators. Yeah, everybody is divine. Everybody's got God in them. Everybody has a potential to awaken. Yes. And so this is, you know, if you're alive, if you're breathing, you know, you got God in you, you know. Yeah, I very much do. And I'm grateful every day that I'm reminded of that. And I, again, just grateful that there are people out there who are serving his nodes for this. And I recognize this podcast is is part of it, too. And I just think the more we can do to normalize kind of this stuff, whether people think it's weird or whatever it is, like, that's kind of the name of the game, right? Like, I think there are enough people like you and Allison and countless others who figured it out, so to speak, who kind of get like, not figured out life completely, but figured out, like, this is what we're doing, because this makes sense. This is following a divine mission.

As to best of our knowledge from our visions, you know, like, and, you know, discussions with the, you know, the higher worlds in multiple ways, you know, we're older people, you know, we're in our sixties, you know, so, you know, there's a lot of different ways to talk with spirit and get, you know, like, did you really mean that? I just want to make sure I'm going to ask a few different times here, God, I hope you don't mind, because I'm really, this is a big decision, you know, so, they took a lot to find this place, you know, I mean, we were looking for a long time, and this we founded on find the divine.com. Is that true? Yeah, what is that? That is a website that sells retreat centers. Is that right? All over. Yeah. And so the only one available in New York was Deerhill, which was, which our daughter had gone to. She had been here.

And then we found out, like, our neighbors are named Alex and Alice. Is that right, too? Sacred mirrors. I mean, that's insane. No, it's crazy. I love stuff like that. I mean, it's those are the things that, I mean, those are the things that when you tell people what you're doing, and a thousand people could tell you you're crazy, this makes no sense, but when you have those little instances. Those are the confirmatory. What are you going to tell your cosmic winks? Yeah, exactly. Little cosmic winks, you know, and so, and so many times now people who come here, and they just come in from the road, from Wheeler Hill Road, just into the driveway, and it's like, what? It's like you pass through some cosmic jello, or something, and you're in a fairy land or something, and I don't, there's an energy shift. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's very, it's very clear. I mean, listen, I, my experience today, I've been here at night, but my, I came up, went to a little wooden table, this cat, what's the cat's name?

The gray cat dude. Oh yeah, catarose, I think. Amazing. Kitty, it was just like, I'm like, this is magical. Like, I know a magical place when I'm in one, I don't need to be told. Like, I don't need someone to go, oh, this is a magical spot. I mean, it's just, it's cool to me that that's something, because you said something earlier that really struck with me. When I had that experience back in the day where I was three straight months of synchronicity, all I could fit, I was tapping into God every single day. It was insane. I could feel it. It was amazing. I was ecstatically crying about things, you know, keeping it relatively normal is not to freak everyone out. But all I could remember thinking is, how do I, how do I get this to other people? How do you share this?

What is the vehicle for that? And I remember listening to a ton of Stevie Wonder. And that's why what you're saying makes just so much sense. And I'm so happy to hear other people say it is, it does that future of a, of a world where everyone is working on their own creativity. And that's the reason we're here. That's the main focus. And everyone kind of knows that's the main focus. And if someone falls off the path, that's fine. They can get back on, they kind of know, I mean, imagining that we're collectively, we're working on the temple. Yes. Now, as a, as a model, okay, you've got your individual creative path, and you're working on the temple, the temple is the world. Yes. The, the sacred earth. That's the temple, ultimately. Yes. And our bodies. Yes, of course. Yeah, of course. So we have to acknowledge the world as this, you know, learning center and, and work it as best we can for the betterment of everyone. And that's, that's what the whole spiritual path in the Mahayana teaches you is that, you know, if you're only in it for yourself, you're not going to get very far in the spiritual world. And so you, you bump into that one pretty soon. And the whole notion of, of why are you in this in the first place? If, if you're sincere about wanting to become a more spiritually open and, and loving person, and he, you know, healed person, then you have to make some intention in that direction. Yes. And the whole bodhisattvic vow, you know, whether, you know, every day you're an example of it or not is at least a powerful intention to bring a benefit to the world for yourself, but for the sake of everyone.

Yes. Well, that's, that's the essence of the bodhisattva. You're staving off for people. Don't know, you're staving off your own enlightenment to return to the samsaric realms to basically wait until everyone's buried across. And then you say, okay, now, now I'll join you all and outside of this suffering realm. And I think that like, that's a really important, and I mean, we all obviously get reminders of this in our daily lives. Having a child is obviously one of the best ways to do that. But just kind of maintaining that perspective in as much of your day to day life. I think that's really what's emerging is kind of a religion. I'm seeing not a religion, but it's an ethos that I'm seeing emerge from more and more people. My personal stance over the past years, since a lot of this Trump stuff is, is essentially though to remind people though that stay active in the world too.

Yes. Don't, don't disengage. It's tempting to go often to your high-minded stuff, but absolutely, practically stay grounded too. Absolutely. What's your favorite color? Yeah, I, I can't really answer that. I love them all. That's okay. And I love black too. What's your favorite number? Number. I guess seven is good for me. That's one of my favorites. What's your favorite animal? Humans. I love that. No one said that yet. I normally would ask you a practical tip that you could share with people, but I'm going to wrap it up. We can do it next time. Let's get, let's get you to Woodstock. All right. Thank you, Alex. Much love.

Hope you enjoyed that episode. I'm sure you did. It was a pretty fun one for me. If you want to go check out anything related to Alex, you can go to, it's got to be Alex Gray.com. I'm pretty sure I haven't been there in a while, but let's just double check, did a little clicky. Yep. Alex Gray.com. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe it's Cosm.org. So let me just check that out. And yes, it's Cosm.org. Also, Allison Gray.com. Please go check that out seriously. If you've listened this far and you've listened to the end, when you see Allison, truthfully, it's a great kind of icebreaker too. You can show that you know someone she knows.

Just say, hey, Noah is super sorry that you weren't included in the first podcast. He feels bad about it. Just let her know. I would love it for the rest of her life. People were just coming up and telling her that because that's how bad I felt. I was like, Oh my God, I know what it feels like to be excluded. Everyone does. No one wants that. Let's make her feel like she knows that wasn't intentional in any way. Okay, that's it. Big thank you to everyone for supporting going to keep these episodes coming hot, fresh off the griddle. I think here's the deal. I could do these little bonus episodes and release them on Patreon or just release them inside of the context of the regular podcast. I don't know that you guys really want to hear them. I just want to make sure I'm not just yakking to the void about stuff no one cares about. I obviously have some insights into what resonates with when you're listening and what you like. But you can let me know seriously. Pretty open. Noah@syncpodcast.com and let's let's get it going. All right, that's it. I love you. I'll see you next week. Hey there. It's Wayfair here where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it.

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