Tess Lampert Has A List

(soft music)

Welcome to Synchronicity. Have a fun guest episode for you this week. My sister, Tess Rose Lampard, is my guest. She's been on the podcast. I wanna say two, maybe three times before this. We always have a good time talking, even though we are siblings. We disagree on a few things, at least. I wouldn't even say disagree. I think I would say have different perspectives on things. And she usually informs me about a lot of stuff that I didn't really know that was going on. And that's what this conversation is about today. We cover, we go into the weeds though. I'd like to be clear about that. I have kind of refrained from talking about, you know, political issues, especially what's going on in the Middle East.

We do not shy away from that for a chunk of this episode. My hunches, most people will agree with Tess. I find that I'm usually in the minority when it comes to global consensus, but we get into it and have a good time. She also brings up some interesting stuff about neurodivergency and autism that, quite honestly, I had never really considered before. So it was very nice to hear that and kind of see her perspective on what's going on there. She also has a book coming out, not coming out, it's out. It's a Mezcal and Tequila book for those who have listened to past appearances. And have gotten in touch with me or Tess about where to get Mezcal that's really high quality and just to learn more about it.

This is kind of like the perfect thing for you. The holidays are coming up. May I encourage you to support my sister in this, not just because it's my sister. Like she really like this, I say this with no ego, truly one of the smartest and best representatives from Mezcal in the United States. Like she has put in the work at the ground level in Mexico, has been doing this for well over a decade, you know, really, you know, she does this for a living. She teaches about this stuff and like is really sought after for her opinions and knowledge on these things. So if you are called to the spirit of Mezcal, you know, go check that out.

There are links to all of this stuff in the, what are they called, podcast page on the website, sinkpodcast.com, Instagram, all of the places. So please go and check that out and support my sister because she's doing cool shit and I think you'll enjoy it. Couple other notes. I just wanna get this out of the way before the episode. Christ Consciousness readings are open. So for people who are familiar with this, I do these once a year. I've been doing them for about four, is it four years now? Jeez, this might be the fourth year. I do these once a year. I only open them up in December. There are limited spots, it's limited availability.

I usually do not do a run of readings like this, but I set aside a few weeks of just like, this is what I'm gonna do, this is gonna be my focus. This is for people who are like fully invested or at least are interested enough in the idea that your imagination is the state that we would call Jesus Christ. Not a man, not a dude, but that Christ consciousness quite literally is your awareness of being the creator of your reality. So that's the type of reading it is, that's the type of space we come from. You can find out all details on that. syncpodcast.energy.com/energy. And I also for a limited time permitting and slots permitting opened up some audio tarot reading.

So I've been doing these on Instagram, but I figured a better way to do that was to let the fine folks who listen to this podcast know that if you would like an audio reading, so what this is is you sign up for one, you send me a quick note via email, DM, whatever is your preferred method of communication, you let me know a theme that you would like clarity, guidance, insight into. I am not a fortune teller. I'm not gonna tell you that this specific thing is gonna happen in your life. That's not what this type of reading is. I use tarot cards, use oracle cards. We get to the subconscious energy that you are emitting and we go from there.

And I would say most people have a pretty positive experience. My retention rate proves that. So if you're called to that, I send you back a 10 minute audio reading with the spread I pull for those tarot readings. And those are up as well. That's it for the reading stuff. I just wanted to give people a heads up who had been asking about those or who wait for those every year. I try to do about 20 of those every cycle. So that's usually how many people I find end up signing up. Weird how it works like that. And then the Patreon. The Patreon is fucking rocking. I gotta say, we have bonus episodes every week at this point if you were to sign up for the $5 level and get bonus episodes, you're already getting like, I don't know, six, seven bonus episodes that already exist from the past couple of months.

I'm going to be moving down the live streams. Like I was reviewing everything that I had been doing and I was doing these zodiac readings and it was just so much stuff. And I was like, you know, I know people like it, but it just feels like it's a lot. It's a lot. So I think I'm gonna bump it down to one live stream a month that is exclusively for patrons and then I will probably open up another live stream that's just for everyone. So you don't have to sign up for Patreon. We'll still do a live stream. So you can kind of get a sense of what those are about. They're pretty fun. We have music, we talk, there's cool people.

It's fun, hang times. But there's a ton of levels on the Patreon now. There's a crypto level. If you're just into the crypto stuff, I'm trying to just provide a platform for people to engage everything that's going on. And I'm not opening this up at the moment, but we are wrapping up the imaginal actualization kind of first track that we did with a group of nine people, 10, including me, for the month of November, that is wrapping up tomorrow. And basically, I will probably do another one of those I'm thinking in January. I'm not gonna do, I was the first to like, you know, maybe I should do these every couple of months.

It's probably gonna be like seasonal. So I'm thinking of doing the next one in January. Stay tuned for that. It's just group support. Like we get together in Zoom meetings. We talk about kind of our practices over the course of a 28 day period for a lunar cycle. And we just kind of go from there. The downloads I've been getting have all been kind of centered around group work and just like working with a community that's supportive and like we can share our experiences. 'Cause you know, it is an ebb and flow type of thing when it comes to creating our own reality. So that's been fun. I'm trying to think, is there anything else that I need to say?

No, that's it crypto, crypto course. I got that, you can go check that out. Basically, I'm resigned to the fact with the crypto course that like this is just how it always happens whenever like cryptocurrency like there is a tipping point where people just accept that like it's going up and it's not dead forever. And that's usually when people get interested in crypto again. I get it. It's a very natural and human thing to wait until consensus has established that this isn't a scam and that it's back. You know, getting ahead of the game is not the worst idea. If you had been paying attention since the beginning of this year, you know, you would have known that Solana was likely to go up, that Bitcoin was probably gonna go up, that there's other things that are kind of shaping up and taking place, whether it's the Bitcoin ETF or the Ethereum ETF.

There's just, there's movement. And you know, I know the economy, the economy. Crypto is a weird place. So for that, I also would point this out. This Thursday, 1130, November 30th, I am doing a kind of crypto in 2024 breakdown. You can check that out. For people who are not subscribed to my Twitch, that's where all the live streams happen. So you can get notified if you sign up and follow me there. You know, we got like 300, 400 people there on the Twitch. It's fun. That's where we do streaming stuff. So yeah, that's it. And as a reminder, I go on TikTok nearly every day. If you haven't caught me, don't worry.

I am there for free readings. I do free readings for 15 minutes a day on TikTok and it is fun and we have a fun time. Geez, long intro, so much stuff to get through. Oh my God. All right. That's it. Without further ado, here is my lovely sister, Tess Lamper. (gentle music) (gentle music)

Welcome to Synchronicity. I usually don't do that with a guess. So I don't think I need to do it. I do it before the thing. Okay. So I said, what do you wanna talk about right before you're gonna record and you said you have a whole list. So I don't have to talk for an hour. You go, go.

Okay. Well, the first thing I wanted to talk about was neurodiversity. So I don't know if you've talked about that here before.

I mean, I probably have only made passing reference to everyone that thinks they're autistic now, which I'm sure you have some thoughts about.

Yeah, I am definitely autistic. I have theories of everyone in our family, but.

I mean, at what point, like I used to think that the spectrum was like, you're either a little autistic or a lot autistic. I now know that's not what the spectrum is. It's like a, you know, cosmology of qualities and symptoms or affects someone can have. And depending on how many of those you have, that's the spectrum that exists. But isn't everyone, like everyone's weird? Like, I don't know any really normal people. And if anyone was like meeting every social standard of normal, they'd be the weirdest person. So it's like, who isn't autistic at that point? I'm not saying autism doesn't exist. Let's be clear about what my stance is.

It's just, isn't everybody at a certain point autistic?

That's a very reasonable question. I think the main confusion comes from autistic traits or human traits. So they're not different than what non-autistic humans experience as well.

Okay.

So in one way, what you're saying is, yes, all people experience what could be considered autistic traits, absolutely.

Yeah.

And no one is quote unquote normal. I'm not sure about that, but I think that people who feel like everyone is weird and we're all super quirky tend to be undiagnosed neurodivergent people.

I mean, I don't know anyone where if you really start to ask them questions, they won't identify as like feeling a little bit weird. I have not met that person. If you really get into like a deep conversation, you know, people can have better senses of identity. And like, I think that has a lot to do with it. I mean, even the identity of being someone who's autistic is a thing. So like, I understand like that could be something that's like a little more developed in someone in terms of like how they identify, but like, I don't know, is there someone who thinks they're just like a normal person at this point?

No.

And autism isn't based on if you think you're normal or if other people think you're normal. The way that it was categorized and the ultimate way to get diagnosed, I almost had certified.

Yeah, exactly. It's like your degree in autism is autistic now.

It used to be judged on your quote unquote social deficits. Even if we call them social differences, the way that we used to think about and diagnose autism is influx now on in a cultural and a medical way.

Okay.

So that's important to acknowledge. But there is something social about it. So what people would look at, you know, okay, you're sensitive to noise, you're sensitive to light. You might not be autistic. Plenty of people have those things that are not autistic. Where the line really comes in or it used to is what happens when you're in a social setting? Are you having an internal monologue where you are simultaneously thinking about the eye contact you're making, the volume of your voice, the position of your hands? Are you paying attention to what people are saying? Those types of things. But also when you think back on your friendships and relationships, have you lost friends and you don't understand why?

Do people often miss you?

No, I always understand why. I am very clear on the reason. I don't think I've ever been mystified if I am not a friend. That's never happened to me.

Right.

I don't know if that makes me not autistic or autistic, but I'm-- - I don't think you're autistic.

I'm very clear.

Okay, go into the first part and you can stop me if I was cutting off in the middle of a broader point. But at times in social situations, depending on my confidence level normally, that's what I would view as the gauge of my awareness of my social presence or limitations, right? If I'm not feeling comfortable, if I'm not feeling at ease in a situation, then I'm probably more aware of what I'm doing, how I'm coming off, how I'm interacting with people. If I'm very comfortable, then I'd almost pay no attention to that and just assume that this is the way to act. And it's almost like the difference between thinking about the music you're playing and just playing the music.

But it's not a consistent thing. To demonstrate autistic qualities, does that have to be a perma state for you all of the time? Or can you have situations where you're completely fine or certain other situations where it's like you're totally having a crazy time inside your head?

Well, it's unique to each person's experience. So it doesn't have to look one way, but I would say in general, it's all the time. It's even with people that I consider close personal friends, I often have an internal monologue, I'm because I'm trained in a way to appear normal to a certain degree.

But isn't that, then I'm autistic 'cause everyone does that, no?

Everyone does that and that's normal, right? Like we don't act like we act in our private home as we would in an office, right? We have different appropriate behaviors that we've learned.

Yes. - For autistic people, those are much more challenging, much more challenging. So it's not that if you're not autistic, you've never experienced things like masking or feeling uncomfortable or not knowing what the right thing to say or do is, but it is at a different level. So the fact that you don't understand that is kind of the case in point, right? Like non-autistic people don't really get it. And that's okay.

Yeah.

But the interesting thing about considering autism is it is a neurotype, right? Whatever we want to call it a disability, non-disability, those are interesting questions, but the more interesting point is that it is a way that the brain works. People can do brain scans on autistic brains and non-autistic brains, and there are different patterns, different parts of the brains light up, and that's cool, that's not nothing. So whether or not, you know, how we think about autism, if we can at least ground ourselves and like, it is a different processing system. I have a different operating system than other people.

We can call one divergent and one typical, that doesn't really matter. There's a distinction.

Is the standard like EEGs or other brain scans to determine whether someone's autistic or is it the symptoms that, or, you know, ticks people may have, you know, like if you're--

I understand your question.

You know, okay, also, and like just to, just, this is, obviously, ignorant, but when we were growing up, like, your idea of an autistic person was like severely handicapped. Like, it wasn't just like, oh, that person can function in society and like have, you know, regular interactions. Like, they were very sent, like, I mean, I'm sure everyone at some point has had someone in their school, if they've been in the public school system, where like, you know, that kid could not be with the other kids because they were so sensitive to the other things in the stimuli that were going on, and they were called autistic.

Yes.

And that is like, I think what a lot of people think of when they think of classically autistic, and obviously that's severely autistic, but--

We don't say severely autistic, that's okay.

I mean, it's something.

Sure, it's something, but that's not the language that we use.

What is it?

It's, we talk about support needs.

Okay.

So levels of support needs.

Okay.

Because also, just because I can mask way more--

It's not a value judgment, either. Like, it's not saying that that's like, that person is lesser than, or like, you know, can't do, there are people who, I won't use the term severely autistic, but who are more support needed, who are also savants. Like, you know what I mean?

That's right.

Like, they can do things that other people who would, you know, who seem like they don't have those qualities could never do, like in that type of fashion. So I mean, it's not a crazy system.

Autistic people are often have heightened intellectual abilities, and most autistic people do not have intellectual disability, which is something that we would have associated with autism when we were growing up, and because of ignorance. And now we have so much more information. The way that we think about autism is changing in real time, and to answer your question, right now for a diagnosis, which, you know, personally I'm not pursuing a diagnosis, of course, for myself, but it would be symptoms. It would be based on your lived experience.

So why not pursue a diagnosis? What's the difference between?

I wouldn't pursue a diagnosis because there's nothing in place that will really help me or improve my life, and it also is a liability. It would take away some of my rights, potentially.

I see.

So as, you know, I wouldn't call myself a high functioning autistic, I wouldn't say that. And I would call myself, to be honest, like a low to medium support needs person. I don't get me-- - So you need support me.

I need support. - What are support needs?

Some of my support needs.

Does the government give us money?

No. - I need support needs.

Yeah. - And I definitely need some support needs. - No, but I need ways to, I need to make sure that I can control certain sensory input, like noise and sound, and if I get overstimulated, I need to address that, otherwise bad things will happen.

Okay, well you like freak out?

Yeah. - Okay.

Yep. - I mean, I would, okay, but if you get diagnosed, then you take away your rights.

They can take away your rights, yeah.

Yeah, that's the problem with mental dyke. I mean, I don't know how, you probably don't know this, but I, my stance on mental illness and wellness is pretty non-traditional, just 'cause at one point I was diagnosed as bipolar. I went through the traditional medicine regimen and counseling and therapy for three, four years, four and a half years almost, then I decided to go off of lithium, not by flushing my pills down the toilet 'cause I didn't, you know, they're suppressing the happy thoughts, but with like, you know, our moms, my family's support, going through therapy, letting them know what my plan was, and you know, I haven't taken lithium in 10, oh no, so much longer, almost like 13 years or something.

And like, yeah, I'm subject to ups and downs and like personality, but it's nothing that I would accept as like a diagnosis of being bipolar. My issue, like going through that experience and seeing how a lot of people kind of get labeled something because of an aggregate of symptoms are witnessed or viewed and they're in medical journals that this is what it is, this is bipolar, this is schizophrenia, this is autism, it's not that those things don't exist, it's just how narrow are we getting in terms of what our definitions of what those are and how many of those can be addressed through different modalities, like a lot of people who would be going through isolated, what would appear to be schizophrenic or bipolar episodes, if that's once, you know, every 40 years are you really, or did you have like some weird spiritual awakening experience at two points in your life?

Like it's, you have to look at them through different lenses and this is a tricky subject because I do encourage anyone who is struggling with mental wellness and health, like get the support you need. I'm not against people who medicate themselves and not against people who seek traditional therapy, alternative therapy, acupuncture, whatever it is, it's just we're very quick to label things in modern society more so than even like when we were kids and I guess I get concerned that sometimes it becomes a restrictive force by kind of boxing people in into definitions in their head of how they react in certain situations.

So I mean, I don't challenge anyone who identifies as autistic. In the same way, I wouldn't challenge anyone who identifies as trans, like it's not my place to tell someone like, this is how you should feel, this is what there is, there's only man and woman, there's only normal and crazy, like that's not my binary stance on things. So I don't enforce my viewpoints, but based on personal experience and just seeing some other stuff going on with other people at various times, I'm reticent to like even begin to diagnose myself or anyone else, you know, unless they were exhibiting like clear signs of like this person needs like support.

And I almost went through this, you know, with my oldest kid, like he was at one point because the teacher didn't like him last year was like basically your kid has problems, you need to go get him some extra additional therapy. And then we switch into public school and he's like, amazing, it's like this teacher just wasn't, didn't have the tool. So I see how it can be used. Also, when we were growing up, they were putting everyone on Ritalin and Adderall and all this stuff. Like so like-- - I remember that.

So it's just like at what point do we offer support that allows people to maybe break out of definitions in their mind and their identity and, you know, develop a system for themselves or find support in whatever ways they need it to function in the way they would like to?

I think I agree with everything you're saying and I share a lot of those concerns. I think one of the coolest things and why, as you put it, everyone thinks they're autistic now. One of the coolest things about it is that it is a neurotype, it is a operating system for your brain. So now that people can share their lived experience and others can connect with that, not in a medical or diagnostic setting, but just listening to other people being like, "This is what it feels like to me." And being like, "Oh yeah, it feels like that to me too. "I didn't even know that was a thing." Like that kind of community support and validation is this new wave of people understanding neurodiversity, of understanding their own neurotypes and that feels really good.

What is, what are the neurotypes? Like how do you know, like who's the person who's out there who's like, "I'm, you know, hetero, neuro," like no one's normal. No, like I don't know, that's my point, that's my point, where is everyone's neurodivergent 'cause not everyone is the same.

I understand completely what you're saying.

Yeah.

So I don't know really 'cause I'm not a brain scientist.

Okay, but it is specifically based on areas of the brains that function differently.

Yes.

Okay.

And function differently and also the amount of information. So for example, even during sleep, but also awake. Autistic brains typically will be processing a significant amount more of information. So we are sitting in the same room, we're having the same sensory experience, except we're not 'cause we're individuals. So my perception of the lights and the sounds might be way more.

Okay, I recently say this 'cause I recently discovered Denise and I were talking and like she was asking me like what, you know, tiles are in my bathroom here. I'm like, I have no fucking idea. Like you could ask me that I couldn't answer this for a trillion dollars. Like I'm very low awareness of my surroundings in general. I've noticed like that is definitely compared to other people, a trait that I have. Is that autistic or not autistic?

No, that's not really a way we would--

What's low awareness of your surroundings?

Things around things.

I mean, probably ADHD.

Right, right, right, right.

But you know, like I can hear the electricity, right? The sound of the fridge might drive me crazy.

Yeah, those things can get to me too. Where I hear them, but they usually don't drive me crazy, but sometimes a sometimes a light can be painful.

Yes.

Sure.

You know, anyway, I just wanted to talk a little bit about that and the reason I wanted to mention it is because there is a lot of misunderstanding and I know that people have feelings about it, which is normal. And we, a lot of people who are like us in their middle age and older, especially, you know, we do have these antiquated ideas of what autism is. So I think it's nice for someone like me in my circles, in my communities. I'm a respected person. People wouldn't probably think of me quote unquote as autistic.

Yeah, as your brother, I don't think of you as autistic. I've known you, they can think of you as a lot of things, but not autistic. It's just that, it's not the word that comes to mind. And I guess like since it's something that you choose to self identify as or are diagnosed as, it is something that you present to others in a social setting that has some meaning embedded in it, right? It does mean at the very least it's your brain works differently than, you know, other brains.

Yeah, I don't mention it all the time. I don't, you know, I don't like bring it up out of context typically, or I try not to again, autism. But when I do mention it, sometimes I get some relief because like one of the places I work, I know the person who's my boss knows I'm autistic. She does. And that makes me feel relief because then if we ever have an email or she thinks I'm being rude or an interaction where like I seemed a little weird, then at least she's like, oh.

So it's basically like a free pass for being a dick.

No, it's not a pass.

So I can just.

It's like that Larry David.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So if I go and just say I'm autistic, I can say things to people and they won't be mad at me.

Definitely not. But my hope is that people don't think I'm being rude to them or I don't like them because so much of the time I'm like, oh, I really like that person. I'm being nice to them. I'm trying to be friendly with them and then they don't reciprocate and it could just be because they don't like me.

Right.

Or it could be that I'm not doing a good job.

You've sent a signal that is not understood.

Exactly.

Yeah, I see the benefits. (both laughing) I mean, I get it. I mean, I do understand, I started seeing the word and term neurodivergent maybe like three or four years ago is when it started becoming like prominent in my social media sphere. I mean, I don't even know what to call it these days, just whatever the algorithm and you demonstrate.

Our digital lines.

Yeah, I mean, it's like also at what point is like the fracturing off of like how we use a lot of these technologies adding to the traits that we would say are related to autism or OCD or ADHD, like, you know, we're kind of training ourselves. Like the dominant social media platforms right now are TikTok and Instagram and Instagram basically just copied TikTok in terms of the short term, short vertical video stuff that you scroll through. That's how everyone is like, I've seen it now. I've seen all generations, that's pretty much what they want. Like if they have access to it, that's what they're gonna consume.

I will say kids seem to be interested in a little less. They do seem still like longer form stuff. But, you know, that's not, it doesn't seem healthy. It doesn't seem like that's making people less autistic, you know, if you will.

It is.

I won't. (laughing)

Well, I mean, it is, there's gotta be some crossover between how our brains are functioning differently and the way we're training our brains, right? That seems to me that the brain isn't necessarily born with the specific, like phenotype of the way it's gonna be. There may be some genetic prejudice there.

In some ways, yes, and in some ways, no.

So it's all nurture, no.

As much as I understand, no.

All nature, okay. - It's both. But, you know, the same way that like, we're born with the genes that we have, like the shape, you know, I might go up and down 50 pounds in my life, but the shape of my body is the shape that I was born with.

Okay. Yeah, I get that. So the shape and operating system of brains are what they are and then we can nurture them.

Is that, is that how brains work? I don't know how brains work. I see the studies where, you know, like the longtime meditators have more gray matter in their brain and they have higher electrical signals 'cause they've sat and trained, you know, their minds for 50 years to focus on one-pointedness or whatever. So I mean.

I think you can change a lot of that. And again, using the body as an example, if I dedicate, you know, three decades of my life to yoga and changing the shape of my body, I can achieve that.

So I mean, and it doesn't, it's not just to the point that it needs to take a long period of time. I mean, that's where, I guess the reason I kind of like, buck against a lot of these like identity stuff things, all of them to some extent, just for me personally, not for anyone else's uses of them. It doesn't bother me. I don't care. It's like, interesting to me at the least. Is I don't like to get bound to an identity of anything. It just doesn't feel accurate. Like the only identity I'm genuinely like confident in. And it's not even like a cool one is like being a dolphins fan. Like that's the only thing like I genuinely would be like, yeah, I am really a dolphins fan.

Like there's no, there's all the evidence points that that's true. But even anything else in my life, no matter how much I focus, I mean like you are certain things based on your relationships. You're a father, you're a husband, you're, you know, a son, your daughter, all of these things, like those are, you know, identities, but I mean like what you choose to be in the world. I feel like that's a very malleable thing at the end of the day. And I worry that people get caught in certain kind of definitions of themselves as an identity. And that inadvertently can limit their experience of what their life is.

And this isn't to say like anyone who finds it impossible to stop having certain thoughts that there's something wrong with them or that they need to change that in some way. But I do think, you know, everyone for the most part wants to feel secure. They want to feel safe. They want to feel, you know, understood on some level. These are just basic human desires and anything you can do to help people kind of achieve that is like an important thing. And sometimes I feel like a lot of these mental or psychological diagnoses can tamper with that process. Because it's like, it's the same way I'm hesitant to even use the term like addiction with people.

If someone self identifies as an addict, they're an addict. I'm not arguing with them, it's not my job to convince them. But I do believe in the same way that like, you know, the tobacco companies were like one of the number one pushers of the propaganda that smoking was hard to stop. That was, they even went so far as to say, hey, we know this is bad for you, but it's so hard to stop it. Oh my God, even though it's bad for you, it's just so good, so hard to stop for you. It's not. There are plenty of people who have employed a variety of methods over the years or just realized one day, I don't want to smoke and they stop smoking.

But the narrative is out there that smoking is incredibly difficult to stop. And so people believe it. And so like, I'm very just like aware of when these, you know, ideas or memes or things are generated and then kind of like bought into full sale because it does sometimes feel like a limited conception of self or a self limiting belief. And again, if you truly feel in your heart of hearts that you're autistic, that's fine. That's totally cool. There's nothing wrong with it. For me personally, I've never really kind of like clung to any of these or looked at any of these identities and tried them on and be like, yeah, this is like, that's what I am for me.

Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I can say watching you over the years, you've done a good job of not getting sucked into any of the many identities that were thrown your way or imposed on you. And I also absolutely have thought about that a lot and struggled and, you know, been pulled one way or the other about the many identities that I incorporate including autism for sure. So it is really interesting. It's normal too. And I think everyone does that to some degree. Everyone is like, I'm not above it. It's not like I don't ever get sucked into like some aspect of identity politics. Usually it's in the past, like it was more prevalent when I was like growing up and like had like opinions on stuff and like really like believed in stuff so much.

But like, you know, I tend to be able to stay above the fray with that stuff just because it's usually just like a binary thing for people too. It's like a four or against or an understood or not understood or this side gets it, this side doesn't get it. It's, it doesn't, not just there are shades of gray, but I always kind of have like an outsider's perspective on a lot of those things and to see it evolve. It's the same approach I take with the trans stuff, honestly. Like, I don't fucking know. I don't feel trans. I'm also not like so close minded that like I wouldn't explore like everyone should be able to ask themselves the question like, am I gay?

Do I feel like a different gender in my body? Like be willing to ask yourselves those questions that the answer comes back. No, I don't think so. Maybe in a certain situation, like whatever the answers that come up, that should be good enough. And if you're like, yes, I am a different gender. I feel like I should be a different gender, go and do it. That's great. Have a good time.

I used to think everyone was a little gay. And then I realized, nope.

A lot of people, I would say this. Everyone is a little gay under the right circumstances. I really do believe that that is true. I don't mean that like you're gonna be like having sex with the same sex, but like this, you know, it's a wild world out there. People are into different things at different times in their lives. You never know what's gonna be going on. But I mean, everyone is probably a little gay. It's the people who are like, I'm not gay.

Like those are the gayest.

I know.

That's the weird part. And like they don't think they're gay. But like you have to be able to ask yourself these questions or like have conversations with yourself. I don't know, it's a fluid situation. But I mean, that's cool. Neurodivergency.

Yeah, okay.

Next on my list is my Mezcal book.

Oh, yes.

Yeah, I published a Mezcal, a tequila Mezcal book earlier this year.

People love when you talk about Mezcal. Each time I've had you on, we've mentioned it. And they always ask where to buy the Mezcal's you recommend. And it was always like some kind of, wasn't always the easiest thing to do.

It's not always the easiest. But I will say that in my book, there's a page. And I'll probably just put it on my Instagram for the holidays, but of my favorite or the best Mezcal's. My favorite Mezcal's, my favorite tequila's, which ones I would use for mixing into cocktails, which ones I would drink straight. So, you know, some of them you have to research, but most of them, honestly, you can buy them online and they'll ship if you're not in essentially like L.A., San Francisco, or New York City.

Yeah, or somewhere in Mexico.

No, honestly, a lot of these, not all these brands are even available in Mexico unless you like know the village.

Wow.

So, yeah, Mezcal, I mean, it's good.

Yeah, good sell, hard sell on the book. I mean, I would encourage also anyone to go back and listen to the previous episodes we've done, 'cause we spoke about Mezcal. I've said it many times, of all the alcohols, it's like in between for me, like alcohol and some other thing. It doesn't function like even tequila. It just feels like a different vibe. It'll definitely get you in a kind of like mist, it feels like a very mystical spirit, I should say, of all the ones that I've done that it seems to be most conducive, at least for me, for getting into that state. I remember doing acid and drinking a bunch of Mezcal in L.A., and it was a good time.

That sounds like L.A.

It was a really good time.

It sounds like it would be a good time.

It is different, it is different even than tequila. Really, traditional Mezcal handcrafted artisanal Mezcal is really more like a plant medicine type of experience than an alcohol experience.

Totally.

I don't even drink alcohol anymore.

Oh.

Like I pretty much, you know.

Interesting, yeah, me neither.

Every now and then I'll have a little bit of Mezcal, like maybe something else if I'm doing a class or an event, or I really want it, but Mezcal, I've been infusing Mezcal with cannabis.

That's cool.

And then I also infused it with marigolds, the Simba Succi, the flowers of the dead, for the other Los Muertos, because I have them growing in my garden together, and they smell really beautiful together. So I'm making a couple blends, and then I had a friend.

What's the weed Mezcal like?

It's really good. It's green, it's a little oily, it's kind of floral. Yeah, it naturally decarbs when you let it sit in the alcohol.

Mm.

It's like a jacked tincture.

Kind of, you know, it depends. I've had Mezcal that's just infused with cannabis, and then I've had it where it's distilled into it, and it's interesting because it has to be decarbed, but it will decarbed naturally in the alcohol, and there's different effects, and I won't have more than one or two ounces at a time, because it can be subtle and chill.

What's a shot, like an ounce and a half?

Yeah.

But I've overdone it and I was high for like 30 hours.

Oh shit.

Yeah, it was weird.

That's undistilled, not infused.

Yeah, I think that was distilled and infused.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Should sell that.

I mean, I would, it's illegal to sell.

I mean, if you made it and sold it over Instagram, there's drug dealers on Instagram. You know that, right?

I do.

I don't ever see them. That's cool, they follow you, they don't follow me. There's one mushrooms place that does, but like, kids are buying like fentanyl on fucking Instagram. It's insane.

Yeah, no, I don't know about that. I feel like I'm a secret goody two shoes or something.

No, it's not secret goody two shoes. I'm just saying like, that's what the kids are doing. Like, it's published on the internet for everyone to see. It's wild. I mean, they're doing it. It's crazy. I mean, most people would be like, don't. The cops catch them all the time, because it's like, you're selling drugs on Instagram. What are you doing?

Yeah, you gotta be careful. I do the Instagram for a cannabis company that I work with, and sometimes the posts get distracted. Yeah, you have to be careful about the language you use and can't sell anything. And I mean, that company, it's like whole plant medicines. And then, you know, I'm doing some edible stuff, but I just do that for private events.

I wonder what they went to make it like microbrewery laws. That's the hope, but probably-

That's what we're going for.

Maybe five years? Maybe faster?

By the time no one cares, and it's like Oregon, where it's like dirt cheap, and no one can make money anymore, then they'll get a real business.

I think that's where we're headed, yeah. But it's good, you know, people should be growing their own.

Yes.

Or buying from other, you'd like a farmer's market. I'm looking forward to when I can bring my homegrown weed and sell it at the farmer's market, or buy it from someone else who doesn't even better job.

You could probably do that now.

I was gonna maybe ask the Hyde Park market.

I mean, it's not even like, ask them. It's just kind of like wink, wink, nod, nod, like have two different types of chocolates, and like the ones for the kids, and like, you know, these other ones, you know what I mean? Like, these are infused, like with what? It's like, you know, flour, that type of thing. I don't know, it just seems like that should be a business that's open for a lot of people. It's like, you know, if someone made really good cookies, they should be able to open a cookie business.

There are people doing it in Brooklyn, for sure, that are just like operating in this gray area. I'm in a culinary cannabis class from CUNY, and we talk a lot about the laws, and the state of things, and what has to change, and one of the things that's happening, which I'm really excited about is the culinary people are organizing through these classes and everything, and trying to influence the legislation so that it is comprehensive so people can have more like, bake shops where they have infused food, and it's not the regulation so much, you know, for taxes on cannabis or anything, but it's for regular food safety, you know, making sure that the products are produced in the sanitary environment, and, you know.

Yeah.

'Cause, you know, you can't eat at everybody's house.

Right, no, you can't. But I mean, you know, people, like, there's people who open up like, you know, pizza places out of their, whatever, garages, wherever you hear about those, like, people do it. It's weirder with weed 'cause it's still like, it's pretty legal, but it's not like, fully legal in the ways that everyone would think it would be.

It's a great area for sure.

Yeah.

All right, what's next on your list? Go get your, I'll put links to the Mezcal book. I'm sure people will buy, I'm telling you, every single time I've had you on, people are always asking me to get in touch about Mezcal.

Yeah, the book, the book is really good, so I'll tell you a little bit about it.

It's, there's a lot of info, like a lot of one-on-one basic information about agave and how tequila and Mezcal are made, a little bit about their history, and information on where to learn about the culture. And then there's a cocktail section, a pairing section, lists of, you know, my favorites or my tops for certain uses. And then the bulk of the book is individual producer profiles. So information about a brand, their history, how they operate, and then tasting notes and ratings for the specific tequila's and tasting notes and comments for the specific Mezcal's. So there's 300 plus entries.

I would say like, if you're very interested in Mezcal and tequila, you definitely wanna get this book. And if you're curious about either of those two things, it's probably worth looking at and seeing if it resonates, just 'cause I mean, I say this not only as your brother, but like you definitely are probably one of the most knowledgeable people in this country when it comes to the Mezcal. And I know that sounds like kind of crazy, but like, you know, you were in New York, there's a lot of alcohol, savants and wizzes who come through and you were big in the wine industry. And then like the Mezcal industry was burgeoning just when you were getting into it and you would take all these trips back and come back with like some crazy stuff.

And I know like the relationships you actually formed with the people down there is pretty special too. So I mean, if people are hearing this and they're interested in it, it's like, it is unique. I don't talk about alcohol on this show very much. It gets unfortunately a very bad, like I'm just like, I feel like sometimes I'm just defending things that I don't even necessarily do or like enjoy all that much all of the time. But like alcohol has gotten this weird rap because so many people can't handle it because there are things like addiction weaved into alcoholism and the way it's marketed and sold and presented in a lot of ways culturally is destructive.

But alcohol is a tool like any others. Like it is best used in some level of moderation but it is like they call it spirits for a reason. There is a connection between why it is referred to as spirits and kind of the effect it has on people's psychology, emotions, creativity and those stuff. And for me, Mezcal is probably one of the only things I would like not bad an eye at like if it was being served to be like, I would drink that because it's like, it's a special thing. So that's cool.

Yeah.

All right.

So I wanted to talk about what I'm doing now which is not necessarily related to Mezcal or cannabis though. I am writing a little bit about the relationship between agave and cannabis, which is interesting. They're neighbors, right? Or no, cannabis came from India, right?

I think cannabis came from India and agave is from Mesoamerica.

Yeah.

But there's a lot of overlap in their histories, their cultural applications, even the way that the industries around them are right now. And of course, the people who are interested in them, there's a lot of overlap. There's so much there. It's very interesting. So I'm working on that and I'm working on a couple of other essays to release next year. And I'm also working on some books of poetry.

That's cool.

I've written poetry my whole life. A good friend of mine the other day said, I didn't even know you write poetry. And I was like, yeah, probably. I never talked about it.

That's like most poets are not talking about their poetry.

'Cause poetry is so cool.

It is, I know like ultimately poetry is really cool and it usually takes someone to discover that through like someone they really resonate with, but it is not traditionally looked at as like a very cool.

No, cool.

And I'm not doing it to be cool.

It had a moment with the beat mix where it's like, poetry man, hip jazz, cat poets. And then it's like, no, it's for artsy people who are sensitive. That's just what's thought of poetry. It's not true. Like some of like, you know, my favorite authors have written poetry, like Bukowski, like it's some of the best poetry that's out there. So I mean, it is cool.

Yeah, I mean, I admittedly like writing poetry a lot more than reading poetry. I don't have the same relationship with reading poetry as I do writing it.

But as an expressive modality, you find it to be satisfying.

I do.

That's cool. That's all that matters, really.

I have, I submitted, I have two poems in an online magazine called Handel.

Cool.

You can link to it.

Cool.

Yeah, send me all the links.

Yeah, so those two are out now. That was just released in their second issue ever. And then I'll be releasing, I don't know how many books, I still got to work it out, but early next year in 2024.

What's like the topics of the poetry?

Oh, my poetry is, the topics are really mostly limerants.

I don't know what the fuck a limerant is. Like a limerick?

No, it's not like a limerick. (laughing) Limorants is, it's thought of as like a type of love obsession.

Okay.

Yeah, if you don't know what limorants is and you look it up, you'll either be like, what the fuck? Or isn't that just normal having a crush on someone? Or you'll be like, oh my God, I didn't know this was a thing. And this just like stabbed me in the heart. And it might ruin some of your relationships. So I apologize in advance.

This is really selling your poetry well. It will ruin your relationships.

No, just the theme of it, if you look up limerants and you didn't know what it was before, if you're in like a limerant relationship, like if you have an unhealthy emotional attachment that is actually just a made up escape mechanism of your mind.

Are you just describing all relationships? No, I'm just kidding. I mean, that's, I mean, I think something that I've just kind of realized over the years is however weird I thought that I was, everyone is not in the same equal way of being weird, but like most people just don't talk about it. That's number one. So that's why like we have art and, you know, spiritual concepts and stuff. I have something I wanted to bring up with you that I was thinking about the other day and I'm sure you can appreciate this. But, you know, everyone is like, no one is as normal as they appear to be. No one, I don't, like I can count on my hand if that I even need that much.

Like people would be like, yeah, they seem to seem like they have it pretty together.

I don't know why we have to pretend to be normal with each other, it's exhausting.

It is exhausting. Some of us have chosen not to that succeeds in varying degrees at different times. But I think that's like an important thing because I think putting on errors that like we know like exactly what's going on and like what this is, it is exhausting. And I think that's kind of just like the season we're in right now and like where humanity is. It's like so macro, you know, cause them of it. But like people are clearly, it's a transitional period where like we don't know what is happening, like what it's gonna be like to be alive in the 21st, second part of the 21st century. Like we don't know.

We know it's not gonna be the same. We know in the same way that like, you know, the beginning of the industrial revolution wasn't like when personal computers came out. Like it's wildly different. It's like a massive, we can sense that whether it's AI or like space exploration or even spiritual kind of scientific ideas coming together and revealing different things about, you know, reality. That stuff is definitely like we're in it. And I think it is unsettling for people. I think for me, what I always kind of just come back to and even before I had a name for it, was that like it is just like external reality is always just gonna be a reflection of our individual and collective belief structures and systems, like that's all this is at any given point.

From like a very non-magical, non-numinous standpoint, like before the TV existed, someone had to have the idea for the TV. Like just like in a not like, whoa, the imagination creates, it's like, oh, like someone just had to think of this thing before it was implemented. That is quite literally how the world is created. I also happen to believe that it's a much subtler, you know, higher dimensional process than that that we can kind of play around with. But I don't know, I just feel like, you know, personal agency and recognition that that's kind of like the life we encounter seems to, I find to be an empowering thought.

Most of the time, sometimes it's really not fun. Sometimes it's like, why did I do this? Like why did I create this reality for myself right now? And not in like a despondent or like horrible way, but like we make mistakes. And like a lot of it is just kind of like learning along the way of, you know, forgiving yourself and other people and just kind of permitting yourself to learn shit about what is a dualistic experience. It's not just one thing. Even if we're striving for permanent ease, joy, happiness, you know, all the good stuff, you can live in that a lot of the time, most of the time, but it's not gonna be your permanent state.

That's not a human being's experience to the best of my knowledge. I haven't seen that lived out at any point by anyone.

Yeah, I think it's, I've always embraced kind of feeling because I feel so deeply that when something is painful or, you know, or tragic or something, like I allow myself to feel into that very, very deeply. And it does result in me appreciating the good times much more. And then also, you know, in terms of creating our own reality and all of that, it's nice to be able to have perspective and remind yourself to go back to the perspective of what you can create and then also external circumstances, especially for people who have PTSD or CPTSD and other traumas that, you know, maybe are circumstantial.

It's not like you created it from this state and being able to keep that in perspective and figure out, well, with what I can control.

Yeah, that's an interesting topic, right? This is like, you know, this is like a very common challenge to the idea that we're creating our reality, right? What about the people in Gaza or like what about the people in Yemen? Like the kids, you know, like you're a two-year-old, you imagine, you know, being in a desperate hopeless situation? What do you, like, it's not that you are consciously like willing experience like that, but who's to say an aspect of that being's identity wanted to experience that for some reason, that it was fundamental for their understanding of the world. And it's not that they're doing something wrong so they find themselves in shitty circumstances.

It's that at any point, the wisdom that you are creating your own reality is accessible by anyone, even in the most desperate situation, which is why you find, even in the most desperate and hopeless of situations, there are characters and figures who emerge, you know, whether it's like Anne Frank or like whoever it is, like these things in where there should be no hope or triumph or joy or compassion, they do emerge from like those places where conditionally they're not allowed. It's not to, again, blame anyone or, I mean, I personally think sometimes I actually just put myself through difficult times to remind myself that that's like part of the human experience and like as a relieving like kind of like my serial connection with like all that is, because like if you just self-identify, this is like always my problem with like pure love and lighters.

I love love and light. There's nothing wrong with love and light, but to deny the existence of anything besides love and light in a conditional dualistic world, like you're gonna run into some problems, like you're gonna bump up against some things that maybe don't make a lot of sense to you because you're living in a fundamentally like varied experience. Doesn't mean your intention or aspiration can't be to spread love and light, but you can't deny the existence of dark and shadow and tragedy, like those things are also part of it. I don't know, I'm generally optimistic though about stuff. I don't think that's common.

I don't think that's popular these days. Optimism is hard. I mean, I'm, I don't know where you stand, but I'm a free Palestine all the way person. No, I'm not, we fundamentally disagree on, I don't think that Palestine shouldn't be freed. I don't think that people should be, you know, in the situations, I don't believe it's apartheid. I don't, I don't believe it's apartheid. I think that the situation, if you're looking for like the original sin of Palestine and Israel and what's going on there, like the earliest you can go back to pinpoint it would be like 47, 48. And like, you know, like there was slavery in this country.

There's massive brutalization and takeover of Native American populations. No one's saying that those things are right, but like there's no real movement for everyone to give the land back to the Native Americans, not because it's not the right thing to do even, just because like that is not what the practical system and logistics of everything. It doesn't mean we don't honor it. It doesn't mean we're not aware of it. It doesn't mean we don't acknowledge what happened. But I don't think kind of like the reductionist argument that this is a simple of a group of people who just want their sovereign land.

That's all that it's about. That's all that it's ever been about is fundamentally accurate, just because listen, it's one thing if the rallying cry from the Palestinian people and the representatives of the Palestinian people is like, yeah, you know what? We want our own state. We just want our own state. We recognize like maybe we don't agree that Israel is a state, but like we recognize you're here and you know, this isn't our ideal situation, but we do believe in ourselves to be a sovereign, self-governing state. That's the rulership that the Palestinians find themselves under, whether they voted for them or not.

It's not blaming if they didn't or if they did. They don't want that. They want all of the Jews dead. And they're very explicit at saying, we want all of the Jews dead. And if the flip side is that, well, Israel is bombing and massacring and doing all these things in Gaza, it's like, okay, that is something that's happening, but also are there Arabs who live in Israel peacefully? Are there Christians who live in Israel peacefully? Is it a fundamentally liberal and progressive state? Does that mean that the hard core right wing Likud party is accurate? I mean, they were beefing with the state of Israel and the people of Israel before this, with the judicial stuff.

So it's like, do you take the United States and say, all the United States has ever been is Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and like Neocons. Or is there ever something else in the ethos of the United States that is worthy of kind of like admiration? Even if it was founded by people who had slaves and were fucked up. And like, it's always a nuanced thing. What kind of freaks me out about the Palestinian things right now, I've spoken about this a couple of times. Again, I'm always taking an unpopular opinion on this stuff in terms of at least what I see out there is that the optics and the propaganda of what Israel is doing, like they played into what a terrorist organization knew would be the optics of the situation.

And Israel has to like people who don't live in Israel have to ask themselves the question, if all of a sudden some people just came in and murdered all of your neighbors and like people you knew and maybe your family, are you really gonna be like, hey, international community, tell me more about how we need a ceasefire and how everything is fine and everything is great. And like that's what, there was a ceasefire. And then there was like a one of the most brutal attacks on any nation, you know, in modern times certainly. And it doesn't justify any kind of, you know, horrible offenses that are taking place in Israel.

There's not a justification no one wants to see lives taken, but there is a reality of war in this world that even if we believe it shouldn't exist or doesn't exist, it does exist and people are willing to go to war over certain held beliefs or convictions. And this is, I don't know what you do, I don't know what Israel is supposed to do as a nation that is legitimately been attacked like four or five times throughout its history, has had to repel sneak attacks at various points in like overt declarations of war. It's hard for me to get into the psychology completely of what that would be like.

But I mean, I don't like, I hear people chanting like from the river to the sea. And it's like, okay, I mean like.

I understand why that might be triggering to you.

I mean, it's just like, I found it triggering as well and I had to unpack that for myself.

And I hear people explain it and say, well, you know, it's not really about exterminating all of the Jews. It's just we want that whole region to be Palestine.

It's easier to say that if you're not a Jew.

That's my point.

But I'll say this, I am an anti-Zionist Jew.

That Zionism is a, Zionism is such a small aspect of like the state of Israel. If you just look at it like people going to Israel is what Zionism is, that's not accurate. Some people just want to live there and they have a spiritual connection with it and it doesn't make them purely fundamental Zionists. It means that they want to reside there.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying everyone who lives in Israel is Zionists.

Yeah, and our family is not particularly Zionist. Our family who lives there. They didn't move as settlers to Israel. They moved to Palestine and they were not Zionists. So I'm an anti-Zionist Jew. I agree with you. I find it confusing for the people who are anti-Israel but pro-USA, I find that to be hypocritical. But one of the things that in both cases, people don't seem to understand. I just want to clarify that land back is not, okay, now you own the land. Land back is this idea of returning the land as a relative to the people who stewarded it and have a relationship with the land as their relative.

That's what land back really is about.

But it also has to do with actual land and deeds and people's homes and like that's one of the-

From the colonial point of view. That stuff that has to be worked out.

Yeah.

But the people who want the land back want their relative back.

But then it's also like-

They want a path forward to be able to have a relationship with that land again.

Okay, here's the question. How far back do you go to determine whose land back it is? That's the question. 'Cause if you keep going back, a lot of-

People who still have the customs and traditions of that land, the Ashkenazi diaspora, you and I, you don't have those connections to that land.

I don't, I've never been to Israel. I mean, I even do both of them.

I have and I saw things that made me anti-Zionist.

No, there are aspects of the IDF, the liquid party, the right wing, hard wing conservative parties that are just objectionable and I don't support it in any way, right? That is like a firm point and it's not support unilaterally for anything that Israel does. That's not what my stance is. I don't know as a non-military operator or person who's even lived in Israel enough to make a decision that I understand the nuance of what's going on. One thing that I constantly hear from a lot of the pro-Palestinian like talking points is this many dead, 10,000 dead, 11,000 dead, 700 kids, 8,000 kids, whatever it is, that's Hamas.

You literally like, it's important to understand there's a militant wing of Hamas and then the organizational logistical aspect governance of Hamas, but it's Hamas. So the numbers being thrown out is just like pure facts of like three Palestinian lives for everyone. It's like, even if that is true, you can't know that that's true just because it's being presented to you. And outside of that, like, what do you do? The logic from Israel side is there are people right across our border who we need gone. We need them either because they need to flee and run and take safe haven in other places or we need to kill them.

That's their stance, for better or for worse, that is what their stance is.

I agree with you that that's their stance. I find that to be inhumane.

Okay, it's easy to call it inhumane. In normal social world, you can't just go murder people if they're wronging you in some way. Even if someone murders someone in your family, you can't just go murder someone in their family. That's not allowed, you will go to jail. It's illegal. But when it comes to war, and it comes to clear declarations of war in your charter statements or in your actions, you're not coming to the same negotiating table. You're not coming with one side being like, all right, how do we figure out how to get along and live together?

Well, it's the saying all's fair and love and war. I mean, there's a reason.

But that's what I mean.

Yeah, I understand.

So it's not that we're saying, it's just weird to me how all of a sudden like Israel got pegged as the aggressor of the Palestinians and unilaterally, right?

I don't think it's weird at all.

It does seem weird to me because there were so many different strategies employed. And like, you know, the PLO was close to signing an agreement that would have been a two state solution. And you know, Yasser Arafat famously got off the plane at Camp David and was like, no, I'm not signing this. And it's because he was pressured by more extremist versions of his compatriots who thought that would be conceding and basically defeat and letting Israel win. If someone is not for a two state solution and they're also a Palestinian supporter, to me it's hard to read that as anything other than, well, we kind of don't want the Jews there.

And we're not gonna say that part out loud, but that's kind of what our stance is because what are your other solutions? You think it's gonna go back to being Palestine? Like, no one thinks that. I mean, I think even the people who orchestrate these kind of events to like draw worldwide attention to it, I don't think anyone thinks the outcome is all of a sudden, they're just gonna give all of Israel back to some Palestinian Authority, let alone, you know, Hamas run Palestinian Authority. So it's like, what really is the conflict about at that point? Like, who's doing what for what reason? Right, I mean.

Well, we see very clearly who's doing what for what reason?

Okay.

Israel is genociding the Palestinian so that they're not a problem anymore. But in Gaza and the West Bank.

Do you think dropping leaflets and telling people that we're gonna be bombing and focusing on a certain area of where you're living and that you should go somewhere else where you're not gonna be targeted and you're not gonna be hit? And then also, let's be clear. Like, I don't hear a lot of people talking about this, but there are videos out there of Palestinians in Palestine being like, we don't have a problem with Israel. We tried to leave where we were and you can look on the streets. There's no bombs, there's no phosphorus gas, there are snipers from Hamas who are shooting every civilian who tried to go somewhere else so they weren't embedded with our population.

I've heard personal stories of that happening of Hamas not letting people leave.

So it's like--

We're sending them back to their home team.

So it's like, what do you do?

I understand that. - What do you do as a country who I do believe, not even as country, just as anyone has the right to protect themselves, right? What happened October 7th, no one deserves, but saying that that's exactly the same thing that's going on that Israel is doing now, like Israel doesn't embed with civilian populations their military outpost. Those are two distinct targets. If you're going to attack the Israeli IDF and military, they're clearly labeled, they're different people, their outposts are not near civilian populations, they're not embedded with them, what do you do? That's my question, like, do you just let it happen?

Do you just say, okay, well, we don't want to be perceived as doing anything wrong, so we'll just do nothing, we'll just tighten up security and hope that it doesn't happen. Again, that's what I haven't heard a compelling take from like someone who says this is genocide, this is apartheid, this is ethnic cleansing, this is inhumane, like, what's the solution for Israel? Just do nothing, is that?

Yeah, I mean, I think you can be anti-genocide without having the solution.

But calling it genocide presupposes that this is an intentional ethnic cleansing of a group of people.

It very clearly is.

So is this perpetrated only by Israel or by the other Arab states who are also refusing to help the Palestinians and have refused for decades to help them?

Sure, we can call them into it and have them be part of it as well. They're not the one supplying the weapons or doing--

Some cases they are.

Yeah, so--

Some cases they are supplying literally the weapons and logistical and military support to continue the conflict.

So they're supporting the genocide.

Okay.

Yeah.

But you don't hear the same cries against those countries that are perpetrating the conflict.

I'm not saying anti-Semitism isn't real.

No, it's not that it's not--

I'm not arguing that this is purely anti-Semitism.

But I'll tell you what--

Let me ask you clear, yeah.

Anti-Semitism scares me, right? It doesn't feel great. But on a my day-to-day basis, I am way less bothered by the rise, very real rise and very scary anti-Semitism than I am by knowing all of these innocent people are dying in this horrific way. I guess the a priori argument here is, you either believe those people are dying primarily because Israel is an aggressor, genocidal, homicidal state, or they're ruled by an extremist faction who literally uses provocation as a tactic to win a propaganda and digitally, you know, optically presented war to further their cause, which is clearly stated.

Israel's like, they don't have a charter that says, like, let's kill all Palestinians. The ruling party--

They do.

No, they don't, they don't. They do not have that in their charter. It does not exist in the Israeli government that it's-- There are Arabs--

I think there's something called the Israel Project where they made out the tactics they would use to get rid of Palestinians. And they're using those tactics now. There's clearly conflicting ideologies within Israel to present Israel as a unilateral state of people who want to cleanse. That is not the majority of people in Israel.

It's the same way that I don't identify as what I think of as the United States.

That's my point.

Yeah, I'm not--

But that's my point.

Right.

But that's why I'm not talking about the political angle of what's going on in Israel. I'm saying you're a normal person in Israel. You get your falafel, you go to the club, you go to a music festival, you do not wanna see Palestinians brutalize. You may even be someone who is against it and has protested the judicial system overviews and all these things. You all of a sudden and your friends are attacked and they're killed by literal terrorists flying over in like a movie fucking scene, which is like incomprehensible. What do you do after that point?

A lot of the people, there have been people who have had loved ones who are killed, who have come out and said, I don't want my loved ones murder to be used to justify what's happening now.

And I think that is a valid point, but you're also gonna have people being like, hey, my family was taken hostage, do whatever the fuck you need to do to get them back and make sure this doesn't happen again. And I'd be willing to think that--

Yeah, I understand that perspective. But most of the people who had hostages, who loved ones who were hostages, were not supportive of the actions of Israel's military because it's jeopardizing the hostages.

Well, I mean--

The hostages seemed well taken care of, the ones who were released.

Right, and not killed.

The one, right.

That's my favorite part of where the narrative, I don't know, to me, listen, I recognize by even saying this stuff publicly, like I spoke about it briefly, with Sean and Cass on their podcast, I don't think I've gone into it on depth on this one. I take incredibly unpopular opinions, like I do not think this is what the majority, I think the majority of people as sensitive, minded, caring, compassionate souls, look at this, and they just say, "Hey, that's genocide." It's as simple as that. These people are getting bombed, they're civilians, they're not letting aid in, they're these torturous monsters.

It's like, well, did you know when they withdrew in 2005 and 2006, they left like a bustling infrastructure of a place, and what the Palestinian authorities did is burn it all down immediately, and all the fuel that has gone in there, and this is true, they love greenhouses and everything, it was burned down by Hamas, these are facts, these are not like we-- - None of this makes it any less tragic, and I-- - It's not that it's tragic, it's just, if you frame the situation as two sides who just can't get along, it takes on a certain narrative. If you understand that one side at least over a 30 year period has floated the idea of, all right, you take your land, we'll take our land, like maybe we can just agree to disagree, one side has done that, and consistently on the other side, it's like, nah, we want what we want, and until then, we may have to kill some of you and to get that, I mean, also, I'm sure you remember this test, like, when we were growing up, you remember, like, suicide bombings in Israel were like a fucking thing?

I remember being scared of it when I was in Tel Aviv.

Suicide bombings used to happen all the time in Israel, and then what it is real decided to do, and this is what people would say is the open air prisms, Gaza and the West Bank, they said, you know what, we now are gonna separate places where we find it unsafe, and there is no sentiment against the occupation, as people would call it, so we're gonna quarantine these areas, and that has devolved into what people would call it a apartheid state, or, you know, military rule when it comes to the West Bank, but like, what's--

I think things get complicated because these, you know, religious ideologies and otherings of people can be imposed on the situation, but that's not the way that I see it, and I am, accidentally, and less and less, just literally terrified of the militarized army state of Israel and our relationship as the United States with them, I'm terrified of what's gonna happen at COPS City, where the IDF and the US police force are gonna co-train, because at a certain point, you know, who do you think they're gonna come for next, right? Like, I just feel like, as a Jewish person, we learned these lessons, and maybe because of the intergenerational trauma, and all of that, and decades of propaganda, we've lost a little bit of our humanity, and--

I don't think that, I don't think that at all.

I think that if there's any sort of, like, when someone says, like, oh, my heart is breaking for all these children who are dying in Gaza, like, if you're not feeling that right now--

Of course.

Then, yeah, I mean--

No one is suggesting that it's not, no one is like, I am for the bombing of civilians.

No, but--

Also, most people understand-- - People justify it.

But people, there's no justification for it. What I'm trying to say is, there's no real justification, what's a justification for war? Not being killed yourself, protecting what you view to be ethical values, like, there are clearly, at points, people have gone to war in the world, or in regional conflicts. Usually, it has to do with religion, sometimes it has to do with land, sometimes it has to do with the particular ideology, whatever it is.

Power, access to resource--

Of course, resources, you know.

I think that's what this is about, which is why it's so tragic to me. I don't think it's about being, you know, Arab or Palestinian or Jewish, or I don't think it's that at all. I think it's, we're just pawns in this power play of these settler colonial nations that want access to resources, and all these people are dying for it. And I'm not saying that Hamas is, you know, good or bad. I'm not saying that everyone in the Israeli government is good or bad, it's not even about those things.

Everyone in Hamas is bad. It's a terrorist organization, Tess. That's the problem. There's a false equivalency between the Israeli government, which has factions of people who are just as bad as Hamas. I'll say that clearly. They are equal to terrorist organizations, and it's likely Netanyahu is one of those people, okay? I wanna be clear about that. It doesn't mean everyone in Israel, or everyone in Palestine supports Hamas or--

Wait, exactly.

You support Hamas in any way, and you don't say like, nope, this is a terrorist organization, you're absolutely missing the point. There is someone who can be an advocate for Palestinian aid for getting, you know, better treatment, changing the situation in regards to the IDF, you know, making it a more livable place, really working on it. But like the truth of the matter is, the vast majority of the aid that has gone into Gaza, particularly over the past 10, 15 years, was funneled to a terrorist organization who did not have the best interest of its people at heart. And to disregard that and make it like, that's not a component of what Israel is trying to do now, I don't, I think misses the point fundamentally.

Who does have the Palestinians best interest at heart?

Truthfully, you know, like any no elected leadership from their side, very unlikely. There's probably more support for Palestinians, actual support in Israel than there is in Palestine, in terms of like people with any type of power. And you saw this happening, you see a lot of Israelis and a lot of Jews being like, this is wrong. This is the treatment of them, the policies, the way they're harassed, the way they're trying to keeping them by a institution of fear and suffering. People are like, this is wrong, it has to change. And you hear enough of it to know that it's a real thing. So you take that at face value, you believe people when they say that I don't believe in this, with, I believe those people who are able to see through the veneer and the bullshit that's presented from the Israeli side, a little more seriously than the people are like, nah, like we had Jews are okay.

We don't wanna destroy them, even though we do kinda wanna destroy them. That's where the problem is. And that's why like to frame it and just buy into it that it's just genocide.

I think that that anti-Semitism clouds the judgment of people.

It's not anti-Semitism, Hamas is an organization that literally in its charter says all Jews everywhere. No, what I'm saying is it's like, but that's all Hamas, that's not parts of Hamas, it's not--

Okay, but just even so, I don't think that this really has to do with, I think that that's like a red herring.

I think there's not a red herring.

I think the reason that the US is giving, you know, billions of dollars of weapons and aid to Israel to keep going is for oil deals off the coast of Gaza.

First of all, this is a separate, and again, much more nuanced geopolitical resource argument. Here's where I kinda get, like to boil this down, 'cause I think it can be an endless argument about a lot of this stuff, especially when people are passionate about it. Anything that seems easy to understand, such as genocide, apartheid, in the context of the Middle East, I can guarantee you isn't. I can guarantee you a catchphrase like from the river to the sea, or that this is genocide, or this is a human rights violation. Those are really, really, really like easy declarations to make about a situation that is infinitely complex, and that's harder for people to kind of process and look at and take time to kind of like unpack, and it's easier to let your emotions, like how many people, let me put it like this.

Let's say you saw a person kicking a dog, and you just see this dog getting kicked, and you're like, what a fucking monster who just kicked this dog, but then you get a different angle, and you see there was a little baby to the side of the leg of the person kicking the dog, and then they kicked the dog, and you're like, oh, they were doing it to protect the baby, and I'm not saying that's the equivalent of what the situation is. I'm just saying the Middle East in general is more like that than it is like, oh, we're just watching someone kick a dog. Like, it's a really bad analogy. I'm just saying like, there's so much more to this situation than what we're being presented, and emotions have traditionally been preyed upon by people who are compassionate, sensitive.

To me, this particular wave of pro-Palestinian support feels relatively superficial, because this was not something that was even mentioned or talked about by the majority of the people who are talking about it now until the eye was cast there, which if you look at why the eye was cast there, it was because of a terrorist act that was perpetrated, and Israel responded and continues to respond to it, and to think that wasn't purposeful or intentional by a terrorist group, I think, Mrs. The Point, at the very least before saying where it's like genocide, apartheid. Like, genocide is indiscriminate killing of a ethnic race.

You do not send leaflets. You do not encourage people to leave. You do not exercise restraint when it comes to hospitals, and whatever people think about the bombing of hospitals and schools. Al Shifra, before it was reported, or after it was reported that Israel struck it, no, they didn't. It's confirmed, verified by people, even in Al Jazeera, that this was a strike from inside of Gaza, by misfiring rockets that Gaza, like, Israel doesn't just go--

You're talking about the first hospital?

Yeah, the first hospital.

Not Shifra.

Al Shifra, yeah.

No, Al Shifra was the biggest hospital that was most recently occupied by the idea.

And then they went under, yep, because they found Hamas enclosures--

And a box of dates from Jersey.

Yeah, but I'm just saying, like, here's the thing, like, if people were actually in the situation, where they had their families killed and attacked, on either side, and this is not just about the attacks on Israelis, on either side, you're going to feel a different way and justified in the way you feel, whether that's through bloodthirsty revenge or not, you're gonna have a layer of justification from my perspective. If you're on the outside looking in, just buying into that this is genocide without really like, is it genocide?

I mean, we have relatives in Gaza right now.

Who?

I'm not gonna say.

Who? I mean, you don't have to say their names.

Yeah.

Family? - Yes.

What are they doing in Gaza?

One is a medic, one is driving a tank.

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you mean, like, from the Israeli side.

Yeah. - Yeah.

Yeah, no shit, I know that. I know that. My hope is not that someone, you know, is not to win an argument, of course. My hope is that people will start to see the real enemy is not, you know, Israelis or Palestinians. The real enemy are the systems that are oppressing huge quantities of people, most of whom just want to live in peace on the land and with each other. - That's true.

And once we can collectively, as humans, in our shared humanity, turn our attention toward the real enemies, which are these systems and the very few people who uphold them and our own actions, which unwittingly uphold them, then maybe we can start to make some progress.

Yeah, I think that's noble and valid. I think if I'm looking to that region and I'm looking at someone who would be a supporter of that cause, and I'm just doing like a quick scan, I'd likely say that Israel is probably one of the best places to find that type of ideology thriving amongst the population.

I would agree, but I think that's due to an extreme privilege, right, the people who are closer to the trauma. Now, of course, any Palestinian is traumatized for generations. - Not just Palestinians. I'm talking about, you know, other places in that region that if you're gay or you're a woman, like, it ain't what you think it is. It's not some progressive-- - That's most of the world still, but-- - I mean, yeah, it's a lot of the world, yeah. - I think that, you know, I don't know if you feel this, but in terms of intergenerational healing, I know what it feels like to not have a homeland. I know what it feels like to have no connection to the motherland, like, I know that when I eat beets and kasha and cabbage, my body likes it and I feel connected, but, you know, we were refugees there and not that many generations ago, the way that I do lineage through matrilineally, I'm fourth generation removed from being a refugee, from displacement.

That's not that many generations. And if you look at families and how trauma gets passed down and when healing can take place and when rest can happen, I think that you and I are the ones in our generation, well, for me matrilineally, where I can, like, rest and kind of stop some of these things and, like, you know.

I see that as a valid perspective, especially when you put it in the broader context of, like, intergenerational healing and, like, ancestral healing. I get that. My stance, I guess, on conflict in general, and specifically in this case, is I am always reticent to pile on, right? And maybe that means, I can't imagine it would, that I would have been like, well, maybe these Nazis aren't so bad.

You definitely would have been.

But I don't think I would have been because the way that Nazism spread, it's spread in similar ways to these other ideologies, whether you wanna call it, like, wokism or anything else. Like, that's how these things actually spread. We think they spread only through institutions and top-down government, but it's rarely how they spread. It usually comes from another place outside of that system.

Especially these days, social media is just, like, a gift.

So that's where I kind of, like, I don't think I would have been like, well, these Nazis don't seem so bad. I think I would have been like, oh my God, they seem like what they're saying is pretty bad. Like, that I will take at face value, but it's hard to argue that liberalism and progressive ideals have flipped so much in a 20, 30-year period that they border on absurd. They border on authoritarianism.

Yes, no, and to me, to me, and I wanna be clear about this, there's an aspect of the Israel-Palestine conflict that is converging with blokeism, which is wokism, and like, hey, one side is good, and oh, and one side is bad, and mm, it's like patriarchy, bad, matriarchy, it's like, no, how about there are good elements to each of these? They get perverse every single time there's been a matriarchal culture, it gets perverse one way. Every time there's a patriarchal culture, it gets perverse one way. Like, we're not shaming the actual things themselves, and that nuance is what I look for in these things, and I just have an alarm system that goes off, and I don't even think it has so much to do with me being Jewish.

I think it has to do with some of it, because I am aware of potential anti-Semitism, because you just see things about--

Do you remember our Zionist indoctrination?

No.

Okay, I do.

What?

All throughout Hebrew school, you don't remember being matriarch--

Yeah, they really want you to go to Israel. They want you to hang out in Israel.

And we had to write essays about Zionism. We were indoctrinated, and some of the stuff--

I don't, but I don't have any desire. I didn't even want to go--

But subconsciously, it's in there. I think it does affect, I think being of the Ashkenazi diaspora with generations of propaganda absolutely is affecting both of us.

I get it, I get it, but I mean, my stance, I'm not advocating for Zionism. I'm not advocating even for the actions that people could look at it on a different perspective.

That's what my--

I agree.

That's usually where I think I get lost in translation. It happened with Trump, it happened with vaccines, it's happening with this. People actually think that I love Trump, I'm anti-vaxx, and I now want the IDF to go stomp on Palestinian kids' heads. I don't want any of those things.

I believe you.

I saw the hilarity of Trump, and I think people are coming around on that. I saw the wackiness of the vaccines, which I think people are coming around on that. And I do think in however many years when we're reviewing these situations, we're gonna be like, "Huh, maybe it wasn't genocide. "Maybe this was like a really fucked up situation "that came to a head."

Well, it is genocide. Maybe there's a reason why you can contextualize it, but for me, I can't.

Okay, here's the question.

For me, it's genocide, and that's bad.

Which genocides do we choose to value then? Because no one's--

The ones that are on--

Nope, no one was saying shit about Yemen. No one was saying shit about Syria.

Yeah, no one's Congo.

No one's--

No one's--

No one's--

Absolutely.

But that's my point. Doesn't that raise some alarm bells for you?

For sure.

When this is the one, the only one where people are like, "It is so fucked up."

It is. It does raise alarm bells, and it raises alarm bells for me, but what I try and do with that is ask myself why. Like, why do I care about this? 'Cause it's more, it's closer to me. Sure, that's reasonable. But what, I care so much about this genocide, but other genocides, I'm like, "Oh, not today."

That's inconsistent to a level that makes me think it's not just about the thing, and there may be some vibrational and energetic thrust behind this that--

I think that there absolutely is, I agree with you, and I think that we're just being, our emotions are being used against us, 100%.

It's a manipulation, and I am sensitive enough to that point to at least bring up the other perspective. And I've been able to have very civil conversations with people who disagree on this, and I think that's important. That's why I actually bring this stuff up. I brought it up with Sean and Cass. They're very much aligned with you. I would reckon to say that 90% of people who listen to this podcast, or just I know in social media world out there, probably feel closer aligned with your beliefs on this than mine. I just bring it up because I'm like, it just feels weird to me. I'm just like, I don't know what happens here.

Well, it's not supposed, I don't think, it feels weird to me too, and that's okay.

Well, it feels weird to me in the sense that I know some other stuff about just the more recent and ancient history of the area to be like, oh, well, this is the Palestinian's land.

But whatever else is going on, just from a sheer humanity, from a human perspective, it's very sad. It's very sad, and it's very tragic. And I hope that we can all do whatever we can in our small individual ways and collectively to move toward a world where this is not just the status quo.

Yeah.

That's all, I mean, one of the other things that I did not that long ago was a death-dulla training. And one of the biggest impressions was at the end when the teacher said this is a grassroots movement of humanity, and that made such an impression on me because that's exactly what it is, and if we can collectively just hold on to those very clear, very few truths and stay grounded in our humanity when there's this shit storm, when our emotions are being preyed upon, of course we're gonna be emotional about it, but when other things that we can't see are going on and it does feel like a war in a lot of different ways, if we can hold on to our humanity, then maybe we can ground down and hold space so that other people can catch up and we can recollect and start moving in the right direction.

I guess then I completely agree with that. I think what I'm advocating then for is looking at the humanity on both sides. That's kind of where I feel like some of this gets lost in translation, and that's where I start to think that I can sense that other people out there who are like really advocating for Israel, like very heavily publicly, that's where they're getting pinged and that's where they're starting to feel the anti-Semitism come in because it is, it is one-sided, the question is it one-sided because that's the correct perspective or is that a perspective that's just being funnelled for various reasons.

You know, listen, I didn't believe necessarily in the all-cops or bastards movement and I know a lot of people think I'm not a huge fan of--

I'm an abolitionist.

Yeah, I'm not just because like I am pragmatic in like, you know, if your house is burning down or like someone-- - You call the fire-bin.

Okay, or like, you're getting some broken into, like, you know, I don't necessarily believe--

Fire-bin could probably handle that too.

No, I don't, what, are you gonna get them guns? You're just gonna make them the de facto cops? It's still cops, like, the thing is is like, these things all sound good in theory until you encounter a situation where you're like, you know what, I just got hit by a drunk driver. It'd be nice if a cop was here to verify that this person is drunk.

Someone like that does not need a gun.

It's not even to think, listen, they don't have guns in other countries and they still cops.

Well, if you take the guns away from our police system in the U.S., you change it radically. And it's no longer the police system.

That's a broader argument too. I also am someone who doesn't believe that guns by default should be banned or should be, you know, not a part--

I just want the militarized police to have less of the guns.

Militarized police is something I don't like. And I think that we are not moving in the greatest of directions when it comes to that, but also we have to be realistic about if you just like full sail abolish police, what that transition looks like and what would likely be an outcome. And rather than it potentially being a safer environment for people with mental health issues or things like that, or, you know, minorities, or it's like you'd probably end up with like weird gang wars and fucking private militias. Like that's probably what would happen. And trust me, no one wants that compared to like a fucked up cop system.

But I mean, I think it's important to talk about this shit.

I think if there's a confusion with that the same way there is like, with land back is, I think people who are saying abolish the police are not saying we should have no law enforcement.

No one's saying that they're saying they should not be cops. We should have social workers or people who are--

No, no, not even, not even. I'm not saying there shouldn't be law officers. I'm just saying the police department system that we have now, it shouldn't be that one.

What do you say to someone who would say like, what if the criminal has a gun and a police don't?

I think, I'm not even saying we should live in a world where law enforcement doesn't have guns. I'm just saying the police system we have now.

Yeah, I think that's fair.

We should get rid of that.

I don't think anyone's arguing that.

And any of the quote unquote good cops or people who actually want to serve and protect just be a part of the new system.

Right, but I mean, that's not how systems work. They don't just like, here's the new system. Now you can be part of it or not.

No, you'd have to train and actually want to be part of it.

Yeah.

But the, all I'm saying is abolitionists aren't necessarily advocating for like, we're all gonna be peaceful and everything's gonna be--

Some are unfortunately.

Okay, well, you'd be surprised how big of a faction of people actually really believe that like, you know.

But the real message of the movement of people who are actually advocating for the movement, it's again about this system is not a good one. It's not broken, it's working well. We need a new system. The same way, you know, we have to identify what the enemy is. It's not individuals within the system. It's--

Valid points. I'm not arguing with, I don't have, I'm not sticking up with the cops too. People just unsubscribe in droves. Well, it's been fun arguing with you for an hour and a half.

Yes it has.

It's nice, feels like Festivis. Is there anything else on your list?

We got through all of it.

Wow, was Palestine on there?

I'll read the list in list format now for you.

Yeah.

The list was neurodiversity.

Got it.

Go book posters, booklets and pairings.

Got it.

Cannabis as medicine and culinary applications.

Got through it.

Poetry and essays in 2024.

Got it.

And anti-Zionism find our way back to humanity and intergenerational trauma.

I brought some of these things up on my own.

I know.

Look at that. Well, it'll be good for the AI who summarizes these videos to get that in bullet point at the end. Thank you. Where can people find you all have links to everything, but what's the best place for people to connect with you?

Probably Instagram, Tess Rose, 211.

Cool.

Yeah. And then everything is, you know, linked there, whatever you can find me.

Cool.

Not hard to find.

All right, awesome. Great talking with you.

Thanks. (gentle music) (gentle music) ♪ The banker's heart tonight ♪ ♪ The city by the bay ♪ ♪ Has moved the stars ♪ ♪ And the girl's stars ♪ ♪ And soft decay ♪ ♪ The rumbling from distant shore sends me to sleep ♪ ♪ But the facts of life ♪ ♪ Can sometimes make it hard to dream ♪ (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music)

Thanks for listening to that episode. I hope you enjoyed it. A reminder you can connect with Tess on her Instagram. There are links to everything we spoke about in this episode, including her wonderful Mezcal book. If there's anyone in your life who's into Mezcal and Tequila and like you want them to be like not lame at it, definitely go check out her book. It's legit. She's super legit when it comes to this. I know like it's astounding how advanced she is in terms of her knowledge of all of this stuff. So please go check that out. It's great for the holidays. That's it. A reminder there's the Patreon.

There's all that stuff. Bonus episodes. Yada, yada, yada. You get it. You know what to do. Christ consciousness readings are open. You can go and check those out. Syncpodcast.com/energy. And yeah, that's pretty much it. I will see you next week with a regular episode. I didn't even apologize for putting out. That's how far I've come. I used to be like, I'm sorry. I did not get an episode out for Thanksgiving. I was busy as fuck. I made the turkey. I was in charge of having people at my place. Super busy. The fact that I got a bonus episode out was a miracle. So be thankful for that. But I have some really great guests coming up.

I'm recording another one or a couple this week. And I just think you guys are going to lack them. So stay tuned for that. Check me out. All the regular places, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, all night. At Franklin Sussex Hyundai, fun is in the driver's seat. We have your new Hyundai Elantra, Sonata, Tucson, Santa Fe, Palisade, Ionic 5, Ionic 6, and more at savings you'll love. Every Hyundai comes with America's best warranty, a 10-year 100,000 mile warranty, and the owner's insurance program. And if you need credit, we can help. Route 23 in Sussex. Shop online at Franklin Sussex Hyundai.com. All offers for approval.

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