Shane Mauss Pierced the Veil

(upbeat music)

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity. (upbeat music)

Welcome to synchronicity. This week, my guest Shane Moss returns. How would I say his name right this time, if you listen to the first episode I did with Shane, I called him Shane Mouse. That's not right. Same Shane Moss. All right, corrected that. I feel better about it. I felt bad when I first did it. I'm like, why did I say that? Anyway, neither here nor there. This episode, fantastic. Fantastic episode for so many reasons. I'm a fan of this episode. If I heard this episode, and it wasn't me, and it wasn't Shane, I would like it. And I'm saying that as objectively as possible, because I think it touches on at least from me so many experiences that not only have I personally experienced, that I've found many other people have experienced in some degree, on some level of the spectrum of weird experiences, people can relate to many of the things that we discuss here.

So for those of you who don't know, Shane, what did I call this episode? Pierce the Veil, who went over the edge, off the cliff, off the reservation. What are the other terms? Lost his marbles. And I say these with a happy tone, because I know I have a pretty good sense of who Shane is at this point, and hearing him candidly speak about this truthfully, having gone through a very similar experience in many ways as Shane, he's only nine months removed from the initial, what do we want to call it? We refuse to call these things breakdowns, psychosis, any of these things, because I think we're-- when you do that, you box certain characteristics or attributes or qualities together and label them, which is restrictive in a lot of ways.

Now, I really want to get this clear in the first part of this intro here, that when we're talking about things like mental illness or mental insibility, the first and very most important thing, no matter how esoteric or mystical or woo or grounded or practical or scientific or empirical about this stuff, is really important. Remember that if you're in any danger to yourself, physically, permanently, or others, that is a big time red flag for whatever state you're in. So if you're getting to self-destructive thoughts in any capacity that really you have any sense of acting on or anything, you talk to someone.

And just, I want to get this out of the way, too. Whatever self-medicating, mental protocol, psychological protocol you have for maintaining stability, psychologically, you can always use other modalities. It's always worth exploring. That's why I do this podcast. I like to hear from sound healers, from astrologers, from body people, from meditation people, from psychonauts, from rigorous science people, various mystical traditions. But there's so many different things that you can look at. And I think it's not that you go and sample all of them or are flighty about it. But you can see what resonates with you and what's worth sticking with.

So that's really important. I want to say that, because I don't want to be cavalier about taking psychedelics or anything else and not say that, yeah, man, you can go over the edge on these things, and not everyone comes back. I was just in Woodstock the other day with Eli and Alexis. And Woodstock is an interesting place. There's a lot of touristy people, and it's a cute little town. The weather was nice. But there are people who are residing in Woodstock, who probably came there in the late '60s and who never left. Maybe not by choice, but because they're gone. And they're not homeless. They're not degenerates.

They're not indigent. But they're gone. They are no longer in our dimension. And maybe that's great for them. Who are we to judge? But I'm saying if you have a desired integrate in with society in real life, you probably want to say somewhat tethered to this consensus reality, no matter how painful or disturbing or irritating that may be. So that's important. So getting back to Shane, if you remember, if you haven't heard the first conversation, I highly recommend listening to it, just because Shane was coming at-- and you'll hear him getting here. Shane was coming at this from a very different perspective.

He was really rigorously penetrating the universe. That sounded weird the way I said it. But investigating the universe via a scientific empirical lens, almost exclusively. And this is interesting because he was having really weird, and what I guess people call normal DMT experiences, which are just out of this world for lack of a better term. So it was an interesting conversation. I was like, oh, man, I wonder if when he's going to have something happen that kind of shifts that viewpoint, not because I thought I knew better, but because I know that that tends to happen, especially if you're really plunging into the psychedelic world.

So this did happen to Shane. I heard about it first, I think, on Duncan's podcast. Great episode. Check that out. Then Pete Holmes' podcast, which I listened to right before I spoke to Shane yesterday. And this was at the urging of a lot of people who got in touch with me was like, hey, I heard Shane on this podcast. I heard him talk about this. You said a lot of the same things in your synchronicity episode, the backstory, and all of that stuff. So I was like, all right, cool. And I listened to Duncan's episode pretty soon after it came out and was like, yeah, that's some shit. I get it. I totally get it.

And I was like, I guarantee you will do an episode in the future. And the timing worked out for this one. And we talk specifically, Shane shares his experience kind of his perspective now. I share as much as I can about my experience to kind of relay that there are many similarities and things that I find interesting and synchronistically. And also a perspective that I've kind of gained over the years, retrospectively unpacking what the fuck happened, which still takes-- there will be days where I just like, oh, man, that's what that could have meant. And you'll see, Shane has a very analytical mind, and he can toss ideas through his head over and over and over, not in a bad way.

It's actually a very productive thing to do for a lot of people. But if you kind of lose your bearing amidst that, it can be a really tough thing. So we're talking about a lot of things here in this episode. Again, mental health and psychological health and emotional health related to many of the experiences we talk about on this podcast, I think is really a big reason I do this. We want to make sure that people are-- you're going to go through some shit. Let's just be clear about that. This is just so interesting. When people talk about mental health and mental illness, about the only negative emotion that I think we permit as a society-- and a quote-unquote negative-- is something like grief.

If someone is grieving over something like a death, no one's like, what the fuck do you do? What's the matter with you? It's no big deal. And that person would be a dick, even if they had some enlightened perspective that it wasn't actually a big deal. We permit that. But a lot of other negative emotions, we don't really permit in society, or at least in social context. And some of those are really good. We don't want everyone running around yelling and screaming at each other all of the time, whenever they're slightly upset. But this also creates a tremendous amount of psychological strain on people, where they're repressing or pushing things down that can manifest in any number of ways.

And when we take psychedelics, what can often happen is a lot of that content comes right to the surface, and it can project as an outward manifestation or an internal mind state. Often the two are the same exact thing. So when we're thinking about that, recognize that no matter how stable, wonderful, everything is going for you, and this isn't like to freak you out or anything, shit happens in life. That's just what happens. So what we're trying to do is figure out how do we deal with that? How do we make that a positive? How do we take these shitty or not so great experiences, gain the nuggets of wisdom that are almost always embedded in those experiences, observe them, and come out of it with a new perspective, right?

The classic Kimberleian heroes journey, but for ourselves. And that's what we're talking about, ultimately. So officially, I think I've rambled on way too much. This episode speaks for itself. You'll hear what we speak about. And yeah, for anyone listening who's had similar experiences, I love to hear about them, and I understand sometimes it's hard to write and speak about them. It's okay sometimes to just get it out. I've had many of you do that. And if I only respond with like, that's really awesome, that's really cool, or like a heart. Know that I am not being trite. Usually it's just the time thing, but also like, I know when I used to write things like that, and think about things like that, and tell other people things like that, that that's probably all that I need to hear back.

That someone acknowledged what was going on. No one has all the answers related to all these stuff. There's certainly phenomena that seem to be increasing, and people are more willing to talk about it maybe. So yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about here. Thanks everyone listening. Thanks to the patrons on Patreon. Got that right. This time, Patrick Nemcek continues to be an awesome person for producing essentially every episode for the past gosh, no eight months or so. Crypto Sync, we're doing live question and answer session. So I have a YouTube channel. I'm not really promoting my YouTube channel.

I just, if anyone knows of a better way to get video content recorded quickly out there that I can have accessible, let me know. I know there's Vimeo, but I'm not gonna go through that whole thing, but I can live stream to YouTube, which works pretty well. Anyway, this is all to say, we're doing Q and A's related to crypto. So if you have questions, at least a couple of Thursdays a month, I'll be opening this up for anyone. So you can go on YouTube and you can ask questions, or you can submit questions in advance. This way, if you're just kind of annoyed about me talking about crypto, maybe you have enough money.

You don't have to worry about these things, or you just don't get how crazily paradigm shifting this will be, which sounds probably trite if you're not into it. But if you're somewhere in the middle and you're like, I don't know, I'm like paying for some server. I don't need to, I don't know about all this, but I do have a question. This is kind of a bridge for you to kind of like ask me what the fuck is going on and see if I have an answer that's suitable or interest you. So that takes place. You can sign up for the crypto sync mailing list or the synchronicity mailing list. Got all these things.

Listen, here's the thing about email. I hate email. I think at this point, officially I truly load it. So why am I having people sign up for an email list? I still think it's like the most effective way to communicate with people without being totally intrusive. A lot of people do text messaging, text this number and you gotta put on their text list. That's a nightmare. Anytime I've made the mistake of doing that and I'm like, oh, I got a text from a human being. It's like some fucking text messaging thing. It's like, oh, I now hate whatever this is. So I still think it's kind of the best way and all I'll be sharing on the email list for crypto sync is things related to cryptocurrency.

And for synchronicity, only things related to the podcast and once in a while, some crossover thing, I think it's important related to cryptocurrency, but very rarely. I'm trying to keep these things very separate. So I hate email, I'm sure you hate email too, sign up for my email list. Amazing, nailed it. All right, without further ado, here is Shane Moss. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Can you remind me when our last one was and what we talked about if you remember?

The date of the last one, let me check here. I actually don't have it. I'll just look at the podcast stuff. We were speaking about some pretty interesting things. I think it was right before you had some experiences and we were primarily discussing kind of this intellectual analytical part of the brain relative to the mysticism and kind of synchronicity unexplainable phenomenon. And it was kind of me cajoling you and being like, yeah, but there's this mystical shit that sometimes you can't explain it super weird. It happened to me and you're like, yeah, I kind of get that, I've had some things, but I'm not really sure.

And then lo and behold, you prod, it prods back.

Yeah.

Let me see the date here. This should be interesting for you. You'll have a better idea of what this means. Where are we? Half a dozen to 10 people hit me up after listening to you on various podcasts. Being like, yo, you gotta talk to Shane again. He had some shit happen that I think you can relate to. So episode 72 is no December 7th, 2000. No, that can't be right. Yeah, no, March 1st, 2017.

March 1st, 2017. Oh, yeah, okay. (laughing) I forgot one other thing. (laughing)

Oh, yeah, a lot has happened since then, for sure.

So, I mean, I loved it. What was going on when we were last with you? Like, what was happening in March 1st? I mean, we were talking about you gearing up. You were on tour. You were doing this, I think you were just beginning or in the middle of the documentary. And I know this--

I think I would have been just beginning the documentary at that time.

Just beginning, yeah. So, what was the trajectory? And let's just jump right in. How are you doing, by the way? How are you?

I'm good. How are you?

I'm wonderful. I can relate to, I think, a lot of what you've been through and not only related to psychedelics and psychological states and mystical states, but I was just listening to you on the Pete Holmes saying the recent one you did and this idea of just kind of being like, I think I'm done, not in like a nihilistic, kind of like a fuck this way, but just like, I'm keep accomplishing everything I want to accomplish and things keep happening. And it's like, all right, let's find kind of the thing here that's going on. And I think I have my own personal answer, but I'm super curious to kind of hear where you are about that and we'll get to that.

But for listeners maybe who last caught you, let's assume they've been under a rock since March 1st, 2017, what the fuck has been going on, man? Oh, not much. I, well, a lot. So yeah, so I started this documentary and I was like, at the same time, kind of wrapping up my psychedelic tour and I was going through depression at the time. So I used mushrooms for that, as I often do. And then I just started, because I was making this documentary, I was just kind of just doing way more psychedelics than normal and as reasonable. I was just trying to really capture the experience. Wasn't allowing much time for integration.

And well, the thing was that it was actually going like really fantastically well. It was helping with my depression and it was keeping me creative and all these great things or at least that's the story I told myself. And then I had kind of a, during this documentary I had, I mean, the short-ish version is, and I don't even know what a short version of the story is, I hadn't done DMT in a while because DMT was starting to get kind of spooky and it was starting to get less and less explainable. And certainly in terms of like, intellectualizing it in a rational kind of physiological, and neural science kind of way.

And so I kind of taken a break from it. And then I decided to do it for the documentary and DMT had been, lately it had been like making predictions. Like as soon as I arrived in the DMT space, it was like, it was showing me that it knew I was going to be there at that exact moment. Like in that space, like it knew like where I was on exactly, it was like, if I smoked DMT, it would at that time show me where I would be like three months from now. Like the next time I smoked DMT, but I wouldn't know until I smoked DMT. It would be like, see all these things that we showed you? It's the things that are in your room right now.

And so that's when it was like getting really weird and I was just like, I think I'm kind of done with DMT. And I felt like I had like a near, like I almost felt like I went into a seizure or something one time on it as well.

Yeah.

Like really, really pushing the boundaries of the maximum amount of DMT that I've been smoked. And so anyway, I smoked DMT on this documentary. I didn't even do that much really. And I was really kind of just doing it for show just to like

For the cameras.

For a scene and I get into high first face or whatever. And this right away, there's just like this thing that's like not surprised that I'm there or even like, you know, phased by the fact that I'm, and it's just like, okay, you see all of this? And it's just like controlling all of these different multi versus or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's just like, okay, now you got the cameras and now like tell people what this is and how it works. And it's not, I mean, it doesn't mean anything 'cause it's not like, it's not like the, unfortunately we don't have like MRIs that can DVR these DMT trips for us. So that other people can see like, no, this thing knew right then. It was like waiting for me to, you know, so I mean, I don't, I don't really, I don't really trust our own, yeah, I don't trust human perception, I don't trust human memory. And so I take most of this with the grain of salt, but it was, but it was, I mean, I have to admit, it was like at the time, I was like, holy shit, this, this God or simulator or program or something was just like giving me very clear instructions to like, I don't know, figure out a way of getting more people to explore this space, I mean, DMT is always, that any time I've been like in a DMT space and been like, okay, well, let's just say that this is real, right?

What do you want me to do with it? And DMT, if it does have some sort of anything that resembles an answer, is usually just like, we'll tell people, just tell people. And I, which is always like, tell them what.

Yes.

So like, I mean, it's so bizarre and just a complete like inverse relationship compared to our perception of this world and what the DMT space is just so foreign and different. There's like, there's not much to tell. I mean, it's just grasping at straws, really. I mean, and I say that being someone that I've talked about DMT for hours on podcasts like this, I've written about DMT, I've tried to articulate the experience. And I mean, it's not that that's not worthwhile. Great, we should capture as much as we can. But it does seem pretty futile. Like when you're in that space, in that moment, and you're seemingly being shown, the building and this universe and every other multiverse that I can't even imagine, all in the course of like 30 seconds.

I mean, what do you do with that?

No, you tell people exactly that experience, of course. I parse it into words. I mean, I always think of it like, it's just like a, it's like we're a piece of hardware and there's this advanced operating system that runs on this other form of hardware. We get a glimpse of it and now we have to translate, but and usually what it comes out as you probably know is the name ramblings of an insane person. And in experientially, in your mind, you're like, no, like I, this actually does make sense. Some people, especially psychonauts who really push in these boundaries and truthfully, the people who go over the edge and are able to integrate back, do develop this ability to communicate maybe not if with explicit words, the energy or whatever they're conveying when they're speaking does resonate with people.

And I think that's ultimately in a weird way when you meet these beings, and I've never done DMT, never done ayahuasca, I've done fair amount of LSD and psilocybin. But when you meet and have these experiences and they tell you to tell people about it, you, I think we like to egoically think, we're gonna, oh, we're gonna tell people about it, of course, and what inevitably ends up happening is this weird kind of like integration with our own psychology, our own physiology, our social dynamics, and lo and behold, what ends up happening. You maybe get a slightly different experience of telling people about it, but nevertheless, this is what happens.

People start hearing about these things. If I hadn't got on this podcast and mentioned what happened with me in terms of my month long schism from reality and going over where everything was a synchronicity, I wouldn't have had like the dozens, if not more people hit me up, be like, yo, that happened to me. That happened to me, and I thought it was crazy, and I kind of knew I wasn't, but I heard you explain it in a way that made me feel like I'm not crazy. And I think that's an important thing that we should address during all of this. Like words, yeah, I heard you say another thing on the Pete Holmes thing, which is I remember after my break with reality, and I got, I was manic in air quotes and got diagnosed as manic depressive and bipolar, had a depressive episode right afterwards, which was very jarring for me, 'cause I'm like you, that wasn't a familiar feeling with me.

I'd never been depressed, I'm like, what the fuck is this? Went through it, I think I mentioned before, got put on lithium, eventually went off of it with the consent of my psychiatrist and my mom, I just wanted to know people that I was doing this, like professionally, I didn't wanna just make decisions for myself laterally after having been kind of in a damaged state. But after I did that, I kind of began to be able to process what may or may not have happened. And I think when you go over the edge and are able to kind of integrate some of these experiences and put them into words for people in a way that makes sense.

It isn't just like a schizophrenic yelling on the street, like they're in my head, they're in my head. It's really fucking beneficial, however, to go back to your original point, words can really fall short of trying to communicate this really profound experience that for as much as our intellect and rational part of our brain wants to discount and say, oh, well, there's this explanation, there's that, maybe this happened. Once that's kind of burned out, you're like, all right, I have to decide, is this real? Am I gonna believe in this? Or is it gonna serve me in any way? So I just wanna point that out that I can relate to being told you must communicate something.

In my case, it was unconditional love, which is just like a horrible word to go around saying to everyone after never mentioning it before. I was like 20 years old. I'm like, unconditional love, guys, you don't understand. It's the meaning of everything. Everything is connected to like, all right, Noah officially took too much acid. He's lost his walk in mind.

Get away from me, pervert.

Exactly, it's like you were exactly, decades later, I'm like, oh shit, maybe I actually got a little bit of something and I was communicating in the best of my abilities now that I have a better understanding of it, maybe we can kind of flesh it out more. But not to digress, continue with your experience.

Yeah, I mean, I've had since talking about my experience on, I guess, Duncan Trussle's family hour and Pete Holmes, he made it weird or kind of the two. Bigger ones that I really went in depth and people maybe want a longer version. I would check those out, but I only mention it because I had the same thing where tons of people have written me sent, I've never heard anyone.

I don't read books about psychedelics and I don't like watch documentaries about psychedelics or anything, I'm like, I'm a little stubborn in that way. I just don't want to be influenced.

Sure, sure.

And so I have, and I talk with psycho nods and I have friends that do psych, and I've had plenty of psychedelic experiences with myself, of course, but with others. And I have never heard anyone have an experience come anywhere near resembling mine. And then, but since talking about it on the podcast, tons of people have written me saying that they, and so, like, I mean, yeah, well, it's nice when people are like, oh, I wasn't crazy, but I like, part of me was like, just, I mean, I go back and forth and I'll get it in the story in a minute, but I actually think it's important to lay down like some of the disclaimers about my feelings too, because we all have our many biases, and now it's been, especially it's been nine months since the start of this experience for me, I had another one. - Which isn't long, which isn't, yeah, and that's not that long, man.

You know that, right?

Right, right.

It probably feels like a long time because you're not in the exact hyper-acute state anymore, but like nine months, man, like this should happen to me in 2004, I'm still having days where I'm like, holy shit, that's what that was? Like, you know, the linearity of time really erodes over linear time, it's quite unusual. So that's not that long, but I mean, I get that it's space removed from the actual acuteness of the experience.

Yeah, yeah, and I mean, I also, so it's, I mean, it's been relieving for other people, I guess that has been through similar experiences, but it's also, I mean, part of it's interesting for me to read that other people are having these experiences. Part of it is like, troubling in a way, part of it is like, oh, I was actually just kind of finally talking myself into like, oh, I must have just been clean, you know, and none of that was real, or maybe I'm like making up these stories after the fact somehow without realizing it. That's almost a relief for me to tell myself that. And so, to have people be like, no, that's exactly what's happening, fuck.

Oh no, maybe it is. So after that DMT experience, which ultimately wasn't, especially by comparison, it was not that bizarre at all. I mean, DMT is just crazy, and there's always like, things at least as crazy as that happening in a DMT space. But it had also been nine months since I'd done DMT, so it was like, I had kind of forgotten how crazy DMT was. So anyway, I was, I'd only done Iowaska two times, I'm a DMT guy, and I had done DMT, Iowaska two times in the past prior to this experience I'm about to share, and they were really pretty mild. As big compared to smoking DMT, which is, I guess, you know, a concentrate of it.

It was, it just seemed like, I mean, different in its own ways, but in terms of like, intensity, it didn't seem much more intense or profound or anything like that than any mushroom trip, or regular or maybe a stronger mushroom trip, maybe a little more clarity than some of those stronger mushroom trips. But anyway, so I was just like not expecting much. So the unfortunate thing about it was like, we actually, we had gone to shoot me doing Iowaska at this place, and I ended up having such a strong DMT experience that we shot and some other things that we had shot at the same time that I just wasn't up for it.

But then I was like, I wanted to, I was like, oh, I'll go and do Iowaska, and that way I'll be able to like, have a slowed down version and figure out what's happening. And then I'll go and do an Iowaska experience like for camera, or I'll just like bring Iowaska home with me, and I'll do it like, because we were also having trouble, like, you know, a lot of these Iowaska ceremonies are in group setting, stuff that you don't wanna be recording, other people and everything else. So I was like, well, I'll just go and do a ceremony myself to get in the mindset, and then like, that'll help me prepare for when we record something on.

It's all unfortunate because I wish that this would have been recorded, which it would have been impossible to record 'cause there's other people there and everything else, but I may never record an Iowaska. So this might have been the only take at it. So I went and I did Iowaska and I had just these really kind of crazy synchronicities start afterwards, the Iowaska experience itself to do a very shortened version of it. I was just kind of getting these messages about how the, it was like to simplify it. I would say like, how history kind of repeats itself and works in these cyclical kind of patterns and there's these balances and these different kind of characteristics keep on popping up through history and forms of like great leaders or awful people or whatever it might be, these patterns keep on popping up of these different communicators through like Jesus being one of them, but also like Hitler and all these other different people through it through.

And this again, this was like, I'm sitting here having the Iowaska experience. There's nothing terribly crazy about it. I was like, you know, all of these things are like people that I know if I was raised Muslim, maybe it would have been, you know, Muhammad or Allah or whatever.

Sure.

And I, but Iowaska was saying that, so there was this DMT extended state study that I had interviewed this guy about for the documentary and Iowaska was saying that I like need to like kind of tell more people about DMT, Iowaska was specifically saying like DMT, like I was just kind of being like some spokesman for DMT or something like that. I'm not sure that's like exactly the case. This is all like metaphors for things.

Like an advocate, yeah. Yeah, but it was kind of like showing me, it was showing me that like I was, I was going to look really crazy but that would be, it would like be enough to grab people's attention and then I would be able to kind of explain these crazy experiences in a more grounded way. And that, but it was, it specifically was talking about this DMT extended state thing that I had had this guy on us that he's working on. I had on my documentary and you know, not that that means anything, but I also, I also had within that Iowaska experience I had, I'm going to forget another weird synchronicity thing I have, which I'll explain, I'll explain the synchronicities in a bit.

But another thing was out of nowhere, I thought of this one professor who I'm a fan of who has some like strong opinions about changing the education system. And I was kind of thinking about how humans have gotten away from the way that we used to educate ourselves like in the hunter-gatherer tribe of like the whole community of being together and learning from each other. And now we're like very isolated and posting these little groups and separated by age and everything else. And again, didn't think too much of any of that stuff but Iowaska was like, it was just like, okay. So are you ready for like this download or something like that?

And I was just like within a psychedelic experience, it's usually just within your benefit to be accepting of whatever experience comes your way.

Generally, yes.

So I'm just like, sure, you know? And that's fine. It was like, I didn't read the terms and conditions.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And this like, what felt like a lightning bolt. I thought, I actually thought that lightning hit this house is what I thought happened. But it felt like a lightning bolt in my mind or something. And I got the, and, but this, the house I was in just started shaking. And I just got these intense, intense messages of collective consciousness and how it can be shaped and influenced by just different, a lot of times, kind of a general consensus shapes a lot of this, but individuals can also influence, but it also has this big influence on each individual's life. And it was, it was kind of how like this collective conscious somehow exists on this like other plane of existence that we are somehow like tapping into like our--

Like interface with it, yes.

Yeah. And which is like different ideas than I'm used to, having or exploring in on like my science podcast.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Where I don't think we'll probably ever talk about collective conscious. (laughing) That's my science podcast. But anyway, good done with the ayahuasca experience. I'm like convinced that I kind of went into it being like, I'll do a bunch of ayahuasca and just like, you know, everyone sees like God or gets a message from God or whatever on Iowa. I'll do a bunch of ayahuasca just to like prove that you're not getting any message from God. And then I got like a very specific--

Yeah, no shit. (laughing)

Should have it.

And so after, and I was supposed to do another ayahuasca ceremony the following day, I was like, that's all that I needed. That was amazing.

Yeah, I wasn't scared, I was thrilled about it.

Yeah.

It was this beautiful experience. Gave me a lot to think about. One strange thing was that I was like, did anyone else feel the house shake during that? And then they're like, oh yeah, we felt like the people on my side of the room all felt the house shake. And we went and checked into it and there was just this enormous crack in the foundation of this house, like right under where my head was. That was like, that happened at the exact second that I had this like big down load. And that's, I mean, and that's all like, our consciousness can tell us stories and explain, like, you know, reflecting back on it, there's no reason to believe that, like, I didn't feel like a little rumbling first and my brain came up.

It was just a little, yep, yep.

The story of explaining this as it was happening before I was like consciously aware that, you know, this house was falling down. And there had been like rain there recently. It was part of like this hill pushing against the--

I heard you mention this intuitively. Do you think that those physical or potential physiological explanations or what happened? Or do you think there's probably some resonance between your internal state and the actual physical crack, intuitively?

I mean, intuitively, I think I put a crack.

No shit, all right, cool. We're on the same page, great, great.

But that's fucking crazy.

Yeah, no shit, man. And, but so, so then the next day, so I didn't have phone reception where that was. The next day, when I went down off of this mountain and I had phone reception, the first text message was from this guy with this DMT extended state thing. And he was like, hey, we're announcing this study in two days of this, and this get together that we're filming it for like Gaia TV or whatever. And we're wondering if you'll be like the first volunteer that should take part in this. Like we have everyone out, we have all the scientists and everything together, but you just need like something.

You're the missing piece, we need you, of course.

I'm like, what the fuck? 'Cause that's like what I'll ask what's saying was going to happen. And by the way, I mean, I'm not sure that that ever will happen. So it's not that it's necessarily meant anything anyway. Or maybe this is all that needed to happen.

Exactly.

It was for me to tell this stupid story.

Who's to say?

And then like the second thing that happened was I got a message from that professor who I'd written like three months earlier being like, hey, and this guy doesn't study like education systems or anything like that. He just has views on it. It's not like, I've never read any like any work of his on other than like some tweets of the education system. It just happened to influence my ayahuasca experience and he was in there and now I got a message from him the next day. He's just like, hey, I hadn't like I just got this or just had a chance to respond or whatever. And he's like, and good to hear from you.

Here's a, here's this article that I just wrote and it's all about like how to change the education system. And then, and I was like, I wrote him. I'm like, that's great. And I was just like putting myself out there and also a little manic at the time. And I was like, I was actually just thinking about you during an ayahuasca trip last night. And he's like, oh, that's weird. I wrote this on a mushroom trip. That's why I'm not saying his name 'cause I don't wanna hold him as a.

Sure, sure.

Illegal drug user. But, and so that was, you know, kind of crazy. And then, and then I just started. So like I kind of went to this thing that was about how, you know, talking about the study, like the main guy putting it together thinks that it's messages from the future, from like a different dimension that we can't perceive that's independent of time or whatever.

Sure.

And, and so I was kind of thinking about how to test that and how ideas could interact with us, like independent of time and, and then like as soon as I started thinking that, just like weird stuff would start, like I was staying at a friend's house and I would start having some idea about like these different characters popping up through different generations and different time, for example. Well, then I would like be writing about that idea and then, and then like my friend turned on like this new Sherlock Holmes episode, which was them instead of set in modern times, set back in like the 40s or 50s for some like a special episode or whatever.

But it was like exactly the sort of thing that I'm like writing about. But like any one of, like any one example of something like that wouldn't sound significant in any way, but, but they just kept on happening. Yes. And it just seemed like so much more than a coincidence. And I wasn't sleeping and I was pretty manic. And then, and then I went to this Roger Waters show about a week after my ayahuasca experience. And, and I was feeling great at this time. Yeah. I was sleeping, but I was feeling fantastic. I know the feeling, my friend, it's pretty fucking amazing. Yeah. I know. Coming up with great ideas.

And there were, and like truthfully for as much as I look back and like, oh, that was kind of insane. Genuinely amazing ideas and creative output that's like objectively good. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was at the time, staying with, with, because where I went to do the ayahuasca, I stayed with this scientist friend of mine who's like a very, very bright guy. And I was like, I mean, I was telling him my ideas and he's, and he's a very skeptical person, but he was like confirming that my ideas were like very, very intelligent and interesting. Yeah, awesome. And I, and so, and that's someone that, that person's never done a psychedelic before.

They're grounded. Yeah. Yeah, grounded. And so, the first week was really awesome. Then Roger Waters, I had gotten these tickets from a fan and we had already kind of planned on doing mushrooms and everything. And I, I felt like it wasn't, it probably wasn't a good idea for me to do mushrooms. You knew that, yeah. I've run up for a week, I'm manic, this is like, but we had all, I mean, it's like, my girlfriend and I is kind of anniversary and I was catching up with these friends and like late hours, we've been planning this for months. I kind of need to do these mushrooms. And I, earlier that day I came up with this idea that I was like, well, let's say like the DMT study is like this extended state is this way of getting information from, from the future.

Like how would you test that? Like non-locally, yeah, I get it. Yeah, like how, how could I, like, so if I were able to go in and talk with some being that lived outside of time or something like that, could I have it like influence, then influence like a past experience or that present? So could I have it like, have someone else give me, like once I come out of this DMT experiment, could someone like hand me an envelope that has contents that I couldn't know what they are, tell anyone to do that, but they would like be meaningful to me. And then I was like, well, what's to stop it from, like why would I need to wait that long if this is like time?

Or like why couldn't someone just hand me an envelope today? Right, of course. And this is just, I'm having a zillion ideas like this, that a none of them are like terribly meaningful or like right on or smart or anything like that. But that was just like a thought that I had that I expressed to my girlfriend who's getting more and more concerned with me and my ramblings. And we go this Roger Waters concert and this guy that works for the tour who got me the tickets comes like into the hospitality room or whatever we're at before the show. And he's like, oh, hold on, I have something for him. And he goes, and he brings this fucking manila envelope.

Amazing. I'm like, what the fuck is that? And I open it up and it's this autographed photo from Roger Waters is like my favorite musician and I'm wholesome and I'm like, what the? And I was like, I gotta, I gotta sit down. Like I just, I need to sit. But like I, that's like right then is when I started, I started like getting a little overwhelmed. Yes. I started and like, oh no, like what's actually happening right now? Am I losing my mind? And I'm just like, I'm trying to breathe and everything. And like, it wasn't like a exciting like, I'm a messenger. Yes. Like it was, I mean, it was intense and.

They're like, it's what, the way I describe that feeling and it can come in many different ways, it's what I refer to as a cataclysmic thought. It's something that upends the way you perceive reality or an experience that starts to transcend a psychedelic or like meditative experience. And when it merges with your consensus reality, you know, unless you have the benefit of just completely discounting it and be like, whatever. It really, it just shifts what's going on in your brain. And once that state is reached, at least for me and other people I've spoken to, that begins a very interesting part, journey for your mind.

You don't leave that instantly. Like you're kind of in that spot now and you kind of got to feel and group around for what's going on.

Well, yeah, now your brain just has to like relearn everything that I knew about life very quickly. And there's just it completely is like, oh, the rules have now changed and it's down and there is no time. And so, you know, you need to quickly reassess everything. And that leads to some problems.

What about you, Ken?

But yeah, so during this show, I mean, the show is very much the, this us and them tour that he did was very much an illustration of like history repeating. They took all of these old classic songs and applied them to like the Trump White House, you know? And it's just like, perfect. You would think that they came up with the song yesterday or something like that. But it's just these, there's these truism, truisms through time. And so there was like some of the artwork and stuff resembled some of the stuff that I had been kind of drawing, trying to make sense of how time works. And it was fucking crazy.

It was just like, and I just, I'm like, am I dying, right? Did I like already die? And this is a simulation and like, like, what is this? Like this isn't, I don't think that this is real. Like I just didn't think that it was real. And I was, and my girlfriend was like really scared for me. And that was like, so, and that became, so now I'm like having to manage her fear. Yes. You know, and which is like, it almost, the whole process almost would have been much easier just like by myself somewhere like out in the woods or around, or if I would have like, I should have, what I should have done is gone back to like the shaman's place that I, that I did, I then like just hung out there for a week.

Yeah. And sort and hashed it out with someone that's like new, kind of what the fuck is up here. We're talking about hyperspace and different dimension. Yeah. Yeah. And instead my girlfriend who's a social worker and deals with crazy people all the time is like seeing all of the eggs and having to be like, oh no, we need to get him to a hospital. And then I'm like, you know, worried that I'm going to be institutionalized for life. That's the thing with like being a psych ward, which I eventually ended up going to is they don't like tell you how long you're there, or if you're just like, like we're going to keep you here for life.

Which is like kind of a mind fuck. If you think about it, if someone's kind of going through a psychological schism, the not knowing if you're ever going to be. That's like what the fuck are you doing? Give me some idea of what the fuck is going on, please. You person in the code. Thank you. Yeah, man, that's crazy. I didn't get institutionalized. I mean, I, you know, I had a support system and friends and family and luckily my behavior was so out of character, even for being a weirdo like myself. Like I, it was just so objectively wrong. Like probably what happened with your girlfriend. And I, let me ask you this.

So, continue your story. You're still kind of what you would define, define as manic at this point, right? Cascading thoughts, like relatively up, even if not as pleasant, and like, exactly as before, still, I was still up. I was sleeping and it was just that, it was just that paranoia was starting to come in. I was, I was just, I was starting to really, I mean, also when you don't sleep for that long, it was just like my cognitive functions were just kind of falling apart. And in my sense of logic and everything else was just really starting to fall apart.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely can relate to all of that. Keep going, keep going. I don't know what I was gonna say. Just keep going with the story.

Well, I mean, there's more examples of synchronicities and everything, but I like, when I was in the psych ward itself, there was like a schizophrenic person that was like, I was having like weird vibes with and I was going to like draw these ideas on this white board. I thought I was having and then I said, I don't wanna look crazy. And so I decided not to, I went and took a nap and then this guy drew out all of my ideas. We weren't talking about my ideas. He drew everything that I was thinking, like better than I, he was like this graffiti artist or something and he did it better than I could have.

Like his, and what he drew, like advanced the ideas that I was thinking, like they were beyond, they were, it was like more thought out than my own ideas, which were, and it was like really bizarre all ideas passed through time and space and it exists in this other dimension on some other like mainframe or something.

Yeah.

And how that's possible and how ideas take shape and form and take on lives of their own. And so there was like things like that that were like and this was when I was, I was now on medication and I had slept, they like--

Still happening, still happening.

And it was still happening. And it didn't, so that was like, I went to the psych ward after like three or four weeks after ayahuasca, I think week three maybe. And then I was there for seven days. I fortunately talked to myself out of there, but I was then, I was still on a like, mushroom trip basically for like another like four weeks after that.

So like almost two months total, let's assume starting from the date of ayahuasca.

Just like tripping basically.

Hey man, I've been there, it was three months for me.

Yeah.

What's so interesting about a lot of the things you said is, so my synchronicities were never ending. There was no gap in normalcy between like, I had a synchronicity and then it was kind of like a shit was normal and it was synchronicity. It was unceasing through the dream state. Meaning like I had never had lucid dreams, I couldn't do great dream call, I spoke a lot of weed, it's a dream suppressant, still was smoking a ton of weed, but was literally synchronicity. Everything was synchronicity through waking reality, dreaming reality, the same type of insane phenomena with like physical manifestations of either people or objects, schizophrenics on the street, I lived in Boston, I went to Berkeley School of Music while this was happening, was walking down a boil stem.

And there was a famous homeless guy there, famous homeless guy, he was an infamous homeless guy who wouldn't talk to anyone, he was this black dude, really skinny, hung outside his store 24. And I was walking back at the inception of one of these LSD experiences I had that kind of was the genesis that kind of pushed me here. Walking down the street, this dude never said a word to anyone, he looked right at me and he goes, you know what I'm talking about.

Yeah.

And I knew he knew, I'm like, how the fuck did you know? Like what the fuck is going on?

I know, that shit was happening to me too. (laughing) People on the street all over the street.

Yeah, the street people, it still happens to me. You retain some of it, it happens to me. So my theory on that, this is just, you know, bear with me while I flesh it out. I think schizophrenics, what we label schizophrenics, and we have to accept that we're contextualizing people who have these symptoms within a made up word that we've kind of, you know, ascribed all these qualities and sort of ways of speaking and thinking to these people. I think kind of what happens with schizophrenics and why when you kind of go off in this other dimension or whatever the fuck it is and you're kind of in that space that I call the dimension, they're like thieves.

They pick up on all of this shit, but a lot of them either have been told that they're crazy, maybe we're institutionalized for a very long period of time, maybe drifted out of regular society, found themselves homeless and just disenfranchised and can't part, they can't go up to someone and say, hey, listen, I had this experience where I had a transcendental thing and this is what happened, I'm not crazy, I'm just picking up on information from other people and I have some valuable things to say, but they recognize and can pick it up when they get in proximity physically to people like you or me who have gone through these experiences and they're like, oh shit, this person gets it.

This shouldn't, maybe I can, they be, they are my lifeline to consensus reality, whether they're consciously thinking that or not. I remember specifically as I was, I, dude, I got indoctrinated into an entire subculture of homeless people in Boston. It was, there's a whole other world out there, like not another dimension, but there are people who are not in our reality who we see every day and maybe yeah, we think they're poor and alcoholics and whatever, they've experienced some other thing and this is their way of dealing with it. And I think it's interesting that you, in the psych ward, which is probably you will look back, probably at that experience as time goes on and be more and more grateful for being in that place because that's something that a lot of people don't get exposed to, especially the metaphor of being in a psych ward and being able to come out, talking yourself out, like that shit's a valuable thing, man.

Like I, it was just random schizophrenics on the street coming up to me, it still happens, but you know, they get, I think they get a little more sense I'm a little more grounded in reality now. So they don't swarm, so interesting, so interesting. Wow, that's so interesting, man. Yeah, so okay, you're in the psych ward, would you describe yourself, when was, there was a crash, right? An inevitable crash from the euphoria in mania or was it kind of like a slow? Well, I wouldn't call it a crash, I would just, the mania just kind of slowly, I mean, I was on medication, the mania just slowly was dissipating and then it just, and then it just like, after baseline, it just kept on dropping, it just didn't stop dropping.

I didn't like instantly crash into, I didn't like spelunk into the darkness, like I just slowly like gradually made my way down into like an exceptionally brutal depression. Yes, that's what I have for like two months or so. Used mushrooms to get back out of it again. Who would I assume, my friend? No, went really well and then, but then I had a month after that, I had another mushroom experience that triggered mania again, same sort of shit happened, I started taking meds right away this time. So it was like, it was, it really marginalized, or you know. Mitigated, mitigated. Mitigated, yeah, mitigated the mania quite a bit.

But then, but then going off the meds again, I, then that was another two months of depression that was like, you know, that that time it was like a couple weeks of mania. And, you know, I lost, I lost some work that time. I couldn't perform on stage. I was on stage and I was just like, I'm telling jokes and all of a sudden I'm realizing that I like created all of this simulation. (laughing) I created like these people in the audience to like sit and laugh at me. I'm like, what the fuck? And then I'm like, is this like a joke that I'm playing on myself? Like, is this some? And, and, and so I like, I just wasn't capable.

I just started like freaking out on stage. Like, I would just like forget all of my material 'cause I just lost in like, like, what the fuck is happening right now? So, you know, I mean, that at least for the, I think that one day I'll probably do something again for sure or, or dabble, start dabbling back into psychedelics. But it'll probably, it might be like a couple of years before I can do the end. And right now I have like, I have no real need or purpose for psychedelics at the moment. I've kind of like, I've also kind of resolved, you know, like the inner work of working on yourself and like figuring out your insecurities and stuff.

It's, it's not that I'm perfect now, but I, but I like resolved enough from 21 years of psychedelic use to, I mean, that's kind of been, for, for some time now, I haven't really been getting like huge therapeutic benefits from psychedelics.

It's good you can recognize that, man. Like that's, that's something that I think a lot of people struggle with, like, because it's such an alluring experience for people that to be able to recognize if it's not actually serving you or anyone around you to be able to be like, eh, oh wait, I mean, it's hard. That's, that's a hard thing for a lot of people.

Well, truth. - Yeah. I mean, I mean, fortunately, psychedelics are also a little bit self-regulating in the fact that they're fucking scary kind of work.

It's so true. - Maybe not in the experience, but the working yourself up to doing the experiences. It's not like, it's not like cocaine or something like that where it's like, I should wait. (laughing) You're not, it's the exact opposite, like, having for psychedelics, having to like, work yourself up into doing it.

That's so funny.

That's so true. So, and I mean, like personally, from my experience, after, and I used to take, I didn't know what a heroic dose was, but I was taking 10 plus grams of mushrooms at a time, you know, at least 500 mics of LSD. Like, I was going deep at the time. And again, it wasn't frivolous. I wasn't just doing this for no reason recreationally, but since that experience, my dosages of psychedelics have been very low. I almost exclusively only microdose. I haven't done a real macro dose of LSD since then. Partially because of fear, because I think once you kind of lose your mind, you get two things.

One is if you're able to kind of get it back, quote unquote, you develop either a faith or a confidence that it's possible to lose your mind and come back, which a lot of people, if they've never thought about losing their mind, if it starts to happen, it's quite a terrifying experience, and you don't actually know if you're gonna get it back. But also, there is a concurrent fear, which is, oh shit, could it happen again? And it could I not potentially come back?

Right.

So, when I look at your experience or when I hear about your experience, I haven't gone through very similar things and heard them from other people. To me, whether this is our human wanting to ascribe the meaning to an experience, to me they are meaningful experiences, and we can gain things out of those. We can't force the insights or knowledge or wisdom that we can get from them. But I think over time, they reveal themselves. And I think that's like, I'd be curious, like, now you're nine months away, which like I said, it probably feels like a long time to you, but not that long in the grand scheme of things.

Well, it's only been three months since my other manic episode at the beginning of the year, so.

Which was, what was that one? That was the?

Yeah, that was the mushroom.

That was the mushroom one. What was the mushroom one?

That was, I started feeling better and then I did mushrooms again at something in Romania.

What happened that sent you into Romania? Do you remember specifically what it was?

Yeah, I started having all these insane synchronicities. Again, I realized that shows that I've been watching where like actually messages to me had been created, like certain aspects of a show, like one lot.

I get it.

You know, like when you watch like a children's cartoon and like and you get to pick up on like these hidden meanings that like the children don't get, but it works on many levels. That's like what the universe does for people that are like tapping into these realms. There's like a, there's another layer.

So what is it like, how do you filter and process this at this point? I imagine you still have experiences of profound synchronicity from time to time. Like how--

I pretty much try to ignore any time that I have anything assembling a synchronicity at the moment. Just trying to, I still have them sometimes, but I immediately am like, nope, nope, not indulging in that. I'm not, and I need a break. I need a break from that for a while.

Yeah. - And I, I also mostly just because, you know, I don't get paid for thinking about these things. I get paid for doing stand up and have like projects with my science podcast and whatnot that I have to do. So I would, if I just focused a bunch of my effort into documenting and hypothesizing about these psychedelic experiences, I would probably be broke in like six months. So I have to separate myself a little bit.

So here's an interesting thing that's happening to me right now, and I've been mentioning this in podcasts, it's typically about conversations like this, but I deviated over the past six months or so, 'cause I've really, I've had Bitcoin since 2013, and I've been really heavily into cryptocurrency, and it's obliterated the concept of money from me. Like I don't, I don't work anymore. I just do, I take care of my kid, I do whatever the fuck I want because money has been shown to me not only as something like, conceptually that isn't real, but now we actually like, holy fuck. Like how we make money out of nothing now?

We trade magic internet beans, and I don't have to worry about my mortgage anymore. Great. It seems to me, and just to be clear about what you said about forgetting about it, two, three years at least after my experience, that's exactly what I did. I had to ignore it. You have to fucking integrate back in. You don't have to. I chose to integrate it, I got really back into football, just like regular meat and potato shit. So I wasn't just off in space 'cause I think that's important. Obviously, it never goes away, and you can retroactively look at it, retrospectively look at it. But man, I'm telling you, when you eliminate the financial, anything from your career, from your life, from anything, that's one of the reasons I love cryptocurrency so much.

People begin to think about this shit. People begin to think about like, fuck, I don't have to worry about bills. I don't have to worry about this. What the fuck is going on here? Like, what are those synchronicities? Is there a way for me to approach them without me getting caught up, or Lord? What I think happened to me, maybe this will resonate with you, during this very long episode, three plus months, is at first, it was almost a very pure experience. I was almost like a vessel and a channel that shit was just getting pumped through, and I was able to like just like take it. Then after like a month and a half, I was like, oh, it's me.

Like, I'm doing this. Like, I'm some special fucking person who's getting this information. I'm creating this. This people are for me, like exactly what you were experiencing on stage. And I think what happened was, is my adolescent 24-year-old, 23-year-old brain, an ego, was getting wrapped into a very profound experience, and I thought that I was the genesis of it. And I got very wrapped up in it, and that's when things started getting like kind of paranoid, a little bit of spiraling, kind of megalomania type of thoughts, all these things, if you would have given me at that moment infinite time to process that in that moment, I wouldn't have been able to realize that.

Six, seven years later, I started to be like, oh shit, like there's something valid to my experience that is outside of my personal experience of it. What is the meaning behind that? What purpose can it actually serve for either my life or other people? And I think those things naturally come. There's no one blanket answer, maybe there is, but there's not a blanket answer that you can say, oh, well, this is the meaning of your experience, Shane. This is why you went through that. I think part of it is I know in our last conversation, it was like, I was proposing the mystical side of things, you were the scientific analytic side of things, and I think what's so interesting to me is, now they kind of merge together, and we see they're not necessarily separate things, and I think we're probably like, truthfully man, like 10, 15, 20 years in linear time, ahead of people being able to actually have discussions, but like, oh yes, of course, Shane and Noah, we're talking about non-local archetypes and cyclical patterns, of course.

And it's like, no--

We're gonna be such fucking irritating hyperspace hipsters.

Totally, we were talking about it back then. Exactly, that's a great example. So I guess in wrapping this up in some regard, like, are you, are you, I don't know if happy's the right word, what is your kind of relationship to the experiences you went through? How are you contextualizing them for yourself?

I mean, I don't have like regrets about them necessary, and I'm not like a guy that's like, don't look in the past, no regrets, I don't have lots of regrets, tons of them. I'll have more by this time next week. And it's just not, I thought it was, I mean, my friends, some of my friends were a little worried about me, it's, you know, whatever, that was okay. My girlfriend is like, she'll get over it mostly, and like some of the stuff about it, she thought was like very, very interesting too.

Sure, of course.

Mostly it's just like, I wish that my family would have never gotten involved in knowing about it, 'cause this, I'm never going to explain to my Midwestern. Like I'm still going, I'm going next week to Jamaica to help with a psilocybin retreat. I was gonna be doing psilocybin as well, but no, no, I'm not going to, but I'll be there tripsitting and helping out and helping people integrate and whatnot. And, you know, I mean, as far as my mom knows, I might as well be like shooting crack cocaine into my ears or whatever she thinks drugs work.

Right, dude, you reminded me of something. So Jamaica, Jamaica is a very interesting place. I've been three or four times, it's one of the only places I've visited outside of this country. There's something about that place, and you mentioned something, I think it was on the Pete Holmes podcast, where you felt like you had been there before with those people for a ceremony you did.

It was really strange. I've done lots of mushrooms before, but the mushrooms there were like really strange. I was like, is there some fucking witchcraft going here? What the fuck is happening?

It's those high vibes, man. It's a really weird island, and there's a lot of weird history to that island, and the consciousness there is not our country at all, and I think that has a very overt influence on it, but I love those experiences when you kind of not psychedelic, kind of like, whoa, man, I feel like I've been here, but a very visceral, clear like, oh, I've been here. I know what this is. Those are some of my favorite experiences, and I think they're very much related to those synchronicities that we can have. They pierce the veil for the moment in time, as much as you and I like to talk about time not existing, it being illusion and not working the way we think, oh, we still have to get up every day, do our regular shit.

So there's just kind of like boundary that we try to cross over when we when we sleep, or psychedelics or whatever, but when you get those little piercings, whether it's psychedelics or not, I think it'll be interesting when you're a trip sitting in Jamaica this next time, what it feels like, 'cause I've noticed since my experience back in the day, in 2004 or so, man, if I'm around people who are tripping, I'm basically tripping these days. Like it is, it is just, it's nuts. And like, I mean, I'm tripping. Like it's not like, oh, I think I feel like I'm tripping. It's like, yep, I'm doing it. It's a very interesting phenomena.

You know, here's what I'll leave it on this note, at least with us. I think what we experience here, if we were put in another culture throughout time, they'd probably be like, oh, you're getting a calling to be a shaman. You're having these transcendent experiences that are not, everyone's not having them. They're capable of having them, but you're getting a very deep taste of this medicine or whatever you wanna call it. If you choose to pursue and follow that path, you take on a kind of the archetype of the wounded healer, someone who has really like been through the fucking shit, but has come out now with the wisdom of how to help other people through it.

It's a role that I've found no one willingly ever takes on. No one's like, yeah, I'm gonna get really fucked up. I'm gonna lose my fucking mind. Then I'm gonna be able to help people. It's like, I'd rather just help people. Can I skip all the bullshit? I'm like, you know, horrible stuff. But I mean, that's kind of the more distance I get from my specific experience. I do sense a greater more clarity, but also that related to where we started with this, these cyclical things in time, these archetypes, whether it's individuals or consciousness patterns, there is very much something to that concept.

And I think right now, in this point in time, and maybe everyone thinks this for their particular era or epoch, there's a lot of shit going on. This is a very hyper, I think there's a reason why, you know, DMT is telling you to tell other people about DMT and ayahuasca and these things. It's not, you know, some weird egocentric delusion. It's like, hey, there's something going on here. And I think people who are hearing that this is maybe some modality that can help them in some way is worthwhile.

Yeah.

All right, so let's, I have three questions at the end. I'm sure I asked you them before. I think you didn't want to give me answers on them, but you did reluctantly. What's your favorite color?

No, I can see why. (laughing) Right now, let's say purple.

We'll line these up with the last episode. What's your favorite number?

14.

Very cool.

I don't know what I mean.

Double seven? I don't know why.

Double seven, very interesting. Very, very interesting. And what's your favorite animal?

Ooh, um, ooh, can I do a fish instead?

Yeah, you can do a fish. It's an animal. I'm pretty sure.

Cuddle fish.

Cuddle fish, love it. What is the cuddle fish with the, the like, does it have like ribony?

It does, it also shapeshifts and can like resemble basically anything. It can, it could like look like a basketball if it wanted.

Could look like a Shane or an Ella. Very interesting.

Yeah.

Dude, thank you so much for coming on and talking about this. Like any, any time you have some weird shit going on, know that at least I am here, if you ever just want to shoot me a message, be like, yo, what the fuck? I don't have answers, but I can at least share my experiences and what happened being just a little farther removed from my own incident, whatever we want to call it, but dude, thank you so much for doing this.

All right, thank you. I appreciate it. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

But we have-- (indistinct) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (indistinct) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (indistinct) (indistinct) (upbeat music) (indistinct) (indistinct) (upbeat music) (indistinct) (indistinct) (indistinct) (indistinct) (upbeat music) (indistinct) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (indistinct) (indistinct) (indistinct) (indistinct) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (indistinct) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

Pretty good episode, I told you so, Shane, go check him out, he's still doing stand up, a highly creative person who just, I think also just a wonderful executor. He just does, gets shit done, manifests stuff, gets shit done. And I'm really excited that he's kind of, you know, been propelled onto this, not knowing, unexplainable, somewhat less empiric path, not that that's a better thing than anything else, but it's good to have multiple perspectives on this. And I'm glad to hear also that he treated his depression, with psilocybin, really found that to be useful in modality. I've not personally done that.

Like I mentioned in the episode, I'm not prone to depression. Circumstantial depression, which I think is, you know, we can argue what that really is in culture and everything, but for people who do experience that I've heard good things about that. Anyway, not for everyone, not encouraging anyone to do anything, but if you've got a calling for any of this stuff, you know, certainly worth keeping in mind. All right, I don't know what I'm talking about. The music, listen, like I said, Eli starts daycare in May, I'm gonna have a lot more time theoretically to get shit done. There will be music being released.

I promise you, I really do promise that. And I wanna say this, got this episode in under the gun. Almost didn't have guests this week, Shane came through in the clutch. If you have guests or people you wanna hear on the podcast, let me know, sometimes that's all it takes. I'll be like, oh yeah, that's a good guess. Let me hit them up. That's a good way to get shit done. Okay, that's it. See you next week.