Ep. 81 - The Magickal Jason Louv

[Music] People talk about the occult, the hidden, you know, and they put all these secret, you know, like robes and secrets and things like this. This is a secret thing that only a few people know about. It's not really relevant anymore. [Music] [Music] Welcome to Episode 81 of Synchronicity. My guest this week is Jason Louvre and Jason is someone who I've been a fan of since I first heard him on Duncan Trussell's podcast a few years ago. Incredibly interesting guy, someone who's at the cross section of kind of the occult and the mainstream, if not the underground of the mainstream. Also just the guy who really knows what he's talking about has put in the time, the research, the work, the thought, the focus into kind of understanding what's going on.

The reason this episode is called the Magical Jason Louvre, Magical with a K, is because we defined pretty early on in this podcast what magic is. And to Jason, that means any tool, resource, strategy, idea, concept that can shift the way we perceive the world as we regularly do. So that can include everything from psychedelics to creating sigils to investigating tantric practices. It really opens up the entire world. For the beginning of time, since we've been writing stuff down, we know people have been doing ritualistic magic type things. So this conversation is super, you can tell, right? Normally I talk about other stuff. I'm not even doing that here. Truly one of my favorite conversations I've ever had for a podcast or otherwise.

I'm super stoked to do another one of these with Jason. And what you're not going to hear at the end of this, you know, I'm trying to get Jason here to New York City for some live speaking stuff because there's just a whole rich array of things that we can talk about. And you'll hear that. So like some of the things we talk about, we talk about, like I said, we give a definition of magic. We talk about the spirit, the realm of the spirit, actually being the thing that creates in this world, even though we live in the 3D reality of matter and empirical science, which of course is valid. No one's discounting that at all. I'm not a science denier. But there's some other stuff going on too.

And where these things kind of interact with each other is what Jason and I are both very, very interesting and interested in. And you know, one of the reasons this show is called synchronicity is that's kind of something that pierces the veil, so to speak. And, you know, kind of clues people into what's going on. So we touch on things like NLP. We touch on Jason brings up a very cool thing that's going on in the occult world. And the occult world, just to be clear, I don't know a tremendous amount about two things have been popping up in my life recently in the past month and a half. One is this idea of magic, magical things happening, miraculous things happening, inexplicable things happening. That's one theme, right? The other theme that's been popping up, a ton is astrology.

It's really been making inroads into my consciousness and I'm not seeking it out. I just did this podcast with Adam Summer about plants and planets where we're talking about weed, cannabis and astrological stuff. And listener of this show, wonderful human being, Stephanie Princeip, recommended that we connect and I'm glad we did. But I also have some other astrology people who were pointed out to me, who got in touch, and those are coming up and also just been doing a lot of stargazing, looking up at the sky and at night. We have really clear views here and out. It's pretty cool. And so there's some planetary influence that's emerging in. So I bring that up because those are the two dominant themes of the past month and a half and they seem to be right now.

But Jason, one of the things that really does come up here is this idea of the left and the right of the occult world. And so you'll hear Jason explain this in the podcast, so I'm not going to do the whole thing. But basically, there's this idea that everyone has access to, magical ideas, rituals, concepts, things, and this other idea that it shouldn't be available to everyone. Not everyone is able to handle some of these kind of paradigm altering things. So that's a very interesting split. It manifests not only in the occult world, but is now making inroads into the political world. We've probably seen Pepe the Frog and all these memes. This stuff actually has very interesting roots in the occult, and some of the white nationalism and kind of populist ideas have fused with some of this magical occult stuff, which to me is fascinating, because it really does highlight that these two worlds intersect.

So another thing we talk about pretty early on is this idea of there being two worlds, right? One is this scene experienced day to day reality we have, and this other one is this kind of numinous, unseen world that still has an impact and where these things interact. As I said, we're interested in Jason makes the suit point, which is there's not really a separation between those two. Maybe we have filters on so we can't process it, but there's really not a separation, and I think that's an important point. I could go into very specific things that we talk about, but I think it's best if you just listen to the conversation. Also, another note, you will figure this out very quickly. Noah made a boo boo and didn't put on his microphone while he was recording this.

So you will hear me have worse audio quality than Jason, which is probably hopefully the first and last time that this ever happens. I don't know why my mic wasn't on, but you will hear that I do not sound great. I don't sound like crap, but I put some stuff so it doesn't sound terrible. You should have heard what it originally sound like, so I apologize for that. That will not happen again. Truly, it's something that bugs me, it probably won't bug you that much, but I think it's to a point where it's not only passable, it's decent. And I really, it doesn't detract from this conversation. So I'm going to get right to it. Thank you to everyone who's rating and reviewing. I'm seeing these reviews jump up or the ratings at least jump up on iTunes. I love that.

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, I forgot to almost mention this. I launched a Patreon page. Okay, Patreon in case you don't know is a way to support creators who are creating things. I fall into this category because I create this podcast. If you want to support the show, here's what we got. I got rewards going on on the Patreon page. It's patreon P A T R E O N dot com slash synchronicity. It's the name of the show that was available. So I got it. You'll see all these rewards. They started at $3 a month level. They go up to insanely high levels. If you just want to be a benevolent soul, you just got like money. You just got like M's, B's, lying around. You want to throw that my way. I will, I will gladly accept it.

But what it is is a way for us to kind of augment the community in a sense that if you are at some of these levels, we're going to do monthly hangouts. We're going to, you know, there's a level where any music that I make, you get immediate access to some other fun things going on. So if you are interested in that, you can go to patreon dot com slash synchronicity. There are also links on synchpodcast.com. I appreciate it. If you can support, I understand, you know, it's a free podcast. You don't have to do that. But truthfully, if you can go there, three bucks a month, that's like very little sense a day.

That would be cool. But I also understand if you don't, that's also cool. So that's it. That's my little spiel here at the beginning for myself. Let me say it in at least, as the least possible ego driven way I can. Truly, I would appreciate the support. The podcast appreciates the support. Everyone appreciates support it sometimes. You know what? You set up a patreon page. I'll donate to you to show you how, how serious I am about this being a new way of supporting things that we like. Okay. Now I'm really done. Without further ado, here is the Oso magical Jason. When the silver was up and active, I would just obsessively look at shit. I was like, I can't ever, I can't ever get myself to buy anything. I was just like, you know, you never tried it. So I have, I know people who have, I have not personally, and I say that truthfully.

It's not like I have a friend who who tried to know I never did. I just, I couldn't pull the trigger. Because like, it was so tempting though, right? You're like, Oh, this is too good to be true. This is like, Oh my God, you can get like this. Like this amazing E from Germany. Yeah. Like, but, but the thing was, it was like, okay, I can do tour. I can do a VPN. I can do Bitcoin. I can pass my Bitcoin through an anonymizer. I can do all this stuff. But, but at the end of all that, you still have to give them an address to send it to. That's what I'm saying. Like if that's in the government, like a lot of them were like, that doesn't mean shit, like your PGP and all this stuff. And I had Bitcoin. So I was like, I was locked and loaded and ready to go.

I saw, I remember I didn't swear that's on my budget, but I saw like a full gram of LSD for $10,000. It's like this purple. How many doses is that infinite? I mean, like, I'm pretty sure that can't even get my mind around. Well, what so like 150 micrograms is psychedelic dough. So, I don't know, infinite, essentially. I mean, it's like you're good forever. It was not put it in the water supply. Yeah. You've got your own town trip and balls now. So, yeah, it was pretty well. Let's consider this started, man. I think we touched touched on some cool stuff. So I'm really thrilled and happy to be speaking to you for a bunch of reasons. Your name was popping up. I tuned into originally when we were on Dunkin's podcast for the first time and it was one of my favorite episodes.

I hit him up. And I was like, this is awesome. You're welcome. I was like, this is such a good episode. He's so cool. And then on the most recent one, I think I had just been connecting while meeting in person for the first time tomorrow, Jen Soudini. And she had been, you know, I've been seeing the magic me stuff there. And it's like, everything was kind of coming to fruition. I was like, this is awesome. I'm going to have this dude up. What you do and what you talk about, I find particularly interesting because it really does seem to be at the cross section of kind of this unseen world that many of us do not interact with on a regular or daily basis or even have any conception that it's going on.

The actual world, the quote unquote real world that we engage with via politics and culture and, you know, every entertainment and everything else that's happening, which to me is like the most interesting cross section of these these work worlds penetrate each other. There are seemingly endless perspectives to be looking at any aspect of either of those two worlds at, but your particular perspective. I find intriguing because it makes a lot of sense and a lot of things you discuss and cover, but I'm not abundantly familiar with the world of magic. And kind of occultism, I, I have come at a lot of my kind of esoteric studies, primarily through Eastern philosophies and a lot of Western kind of mystics and then also I'm a huge Carl Jung fan so like I really subscribe to the collective unconscious and a lot of his theories but, you know, hearing about angels and, you know, magic piques my interest very much so but I don't know a lot about it so I'm just relishing the opportunity to speak to you about something.

Well, what an awesome place to start from this is great so we can start from let's start to take it all all the way back let's start from the beginning and I want to that's it's it's fascinating to hear you say that I think that it's interesting when thinking about okay there's two worlds, you know, that there's this mundane world that is quote unquote real of politics and clickbait and taxes and bills and all of that and then there's this idea that there's this other world of magic and fantasy and stuff like that and that's, you know, it's somehow less real or less important and this goes back, we all remember in school, our teachers telling us, you know, stop daydreaming that's not real, you know, like focus on focus on reality focus on solving quadratic equations, but I actually think it's, I actually think it's the opposite I think that it is the world of our internal world the world of our hopes, our dreams, the meaning we make out of life, our aspirations, our sense of logging for something higher for a greater meaning of spirit, even of religion of God if you want to call it that that's what's real the world of and that's what shaped because that's what shapes our behavior that's what shapes our approach to the world that shape that's what shapes what we really want out of life and at the end of the day when we're on our death bed that's what we're going to be left with and that's what we're going to remember and it's the world of this, you know, passing politics and whatever people are outraged on about on social media today or the news or the financial markets take three steps back, that stuff is so transient, it goes up and down and you wait, you know, it's like the weather, you know, if you don't like it, you know, just wait for a second, it comes in and goes and it goes up and down and if you, if you pay attention long enough and you're lucky enough to live long enough, you see that it's like a, it's very much like the each thing, I think of it, you know, there's or Taoism, it's just, it's, it's, it's dark and it's light and it's positive and it's negative and it corrects and it always comes to a baseline and it always seems to be kind of okay in the end so so it's as the, if you're familiar with the Eastern traditions, you know, the Hindus talk about the world of Maya, Buddhist talk about the world of some of some sorrow in Kabbalah, they talk about Malkouth and they're basically talking about the transient phenomena of the material world and that doesn't mean it's, you know, that doesn't mean to make the other mistake, which is to say that it's not important to say that it's not real because then you, then you're really in trouble, that you can't pay your taxes, then you can't, you know, feed yourself, but at the end of the day, it is the world of spirit that is true and lasting and eternal and, and constructed of eternal forms as Plato might have, might have said, or as Carl Jung might have said, our archetypes in the collective unconscious, it's the world of spirit that is unchanging and that we go to to be refreshed as, as human beings and that, and that is unchanging throughout the centuries in the millennia, we can go back and read writers from 2000, 3000 years ago, whether they're mystics or philosophers or just average people and we see that they're dealing with the same things as we are now, we see that they're asking the same questions and they're coming to a lot of the same conclusions and that particularly in turbulent times such as our own, I think is, is critical, you know, to, to remember what is true and what is eternal in the world of spirit, so that's how I see it Oh, and I think to add to that, which I completely within every way, shape way or there, the internal world that we experience the world of spirit actually shapes, or at least has some interplay with the external world and this I believe is the principle of magic and how to actually use kind of intent and will and maybe some what unseen principles to impact reality, this is something where one of my favorite I was talking about on this podcast a ton of times, Marie Louise, Bob Franz, Carl Jung's main translator, she basically translated and wrote tons of books is actually a much better writer than young and the people have read him know this guy is like, it's like fucking digging in some crazy like what are you talking about I had a reread this page like 20 times she's actually a very clear and lucid writer and it's taken many of his principles years down time and expounded on them and made great points and she wrote a book called psyche and matter which is essentially looking for this connection between the internal and the external and she goes into numbers being primordial archetypes and that, you know, you can drill down with these concepts and she starts, you know, 20 years before quantum physics was really validating, you know, wave particle stuff she's talking about how people will see this and that it's not what we think it is, what's interesting to me is that sometimes in these two world concept or this is a very innovative adopted concept right yes there's this interconnectedness and unity that underpins everything and there's no real difference between you and me and this idea of moving no and this idea of using Jason is really a construct that we're creating to navigate the world however, as you pointed out, we still function in this world there's still good and bad there's still light and dark there's still hot and cold so we have to maintain both of these kind of equilibrium I'm playing around with a friend brought this up to me because balance is so often indeed a valid is a very important thing and his take on it which I thought was very very good and as a musician I particularly appreciated this was that it's less balanced and more an idea of harmony because in a balance you may be making the mistake that everything gets the emotional amount of play when in a given situation that might not be what's called for if you're in a situation where someone's trying to kill you you don't want to be super compassion ability to kill that's what's going to happen that's going to be functional for me but this idea of harmony that you can have different expressions and kind of timbers and tones for what's going on and volumes that express itself allows a little more mobility and situations and a little more flexibility which is when things get a little rigid or dogmatic we know what happens when it's a religion we know what happens in institutionalized stuff so I like this kind of concept of harmony that gives a little more freedom and perceiving these things so but far I get too much of on a tangent I would love if you could give me kind of a primer I've taken your introductory magic course but kind of the principles and concept of what magic is where it's come from and how it is practically useful in our lives great okay sure so magic is a set of okay so I use magic in a very broad sense and I use magic to denote all of the techniques of esoteric spirituality from all around the world and lots of different cultures there is a very specific tradition called the western magical tradition which is Kabbalah her medicine and all of this but I use magic in a sense to to mean any technology that is capable of causing radical change in either your conscious or your unconscious mind and that you're in control of and so practically what that means is it's a set of tools for changing your beliefs changing your personality your way of viewing the world and radically changing the parameters of what is possible and the way that that's done is both by changing our conscious thinking our conscious habits our conscious personality but also where magic really shines in a way that something like self-help or more all of which is great but in a way that more available more known techniques do not do where magic really shines is allowing you to tap in directly into your unconscious mind and essentially recode your unconscious all the stuff that you're not aware of on a regular basis and when you do that the effects can be so dramatic and so overwhelming because the unconscious is so powerful in comparison to the conscious mind is like the tip of an iceberg or this mass of the unconscious mind contains not just what we're not thinking about but it contains our dreams, it contains all of our memories, it contains the collective unconscious, it contains our ancestral mythories, yes, mixed ancestral memories, our connection to our genetics it contains everything by definition is not conscious so to be able to swim in the waters of the unconscious and navigate and have a set of tools for navigating that that's what magic is and so the effects from whether it's using sigils which is a way of implanting desires into the unconscious that grow into realities whether it's interacting with God forms which is, you know, you might also say they're interacting with archetypes from the collective unconscious whether it's just interacting with the vast ineffable meaning of what it is to be alive as a human being and the storehouse of meaning that all the billions of human beings have lived on this planet and the billions of animals and animal consciousnesses and plant consciousnesses and all the meaning and all their experience, all that is there for anyone to tap into at any point just by the intention and with the right techniques, meditation, sigils, all of these things so that's what magic is, that's what magic is to me and so in the final summation it is, you know, a technique of fully embracing the universe and being alive and on all spectrum, not just the very narrow spectrum of what we were talking about which is the conscious mind and how to make money and all of which is very important but what we think of as ourselves, what we think of as our personalities, our jobs, our roles in this world is a tiny part of the spectrum of what it is to be alive so magic for me is technologies for tapping into that, I hope that experience is right, no that's the best description I've heard and I love, I mean, it fits in line with what I have experienced in my life relating to consciousness, altering states or experiences you know, I've had, what you're describing in terms of accessing whether you call it the collective unconscious or godheads or anything, I've had experiences both on and off psychedelics that have lasted substantial periods of time where I think I was in magical realms and I very much felt like I was shifting dimensions from months at a time which ultimately and I find this is giving me a tremendous amount of perspective on the mental health system in this country, at one point I was diagnosed as bipolar, because I had gone through a manic and then a depressive phase where I experienced either in my life and was in this isolated incident promoted by a normal dose of LSD, but it lasted for three months, I was essentially tripping, getting downloads every single day, waking up, knowing the Sanskrit names for all of the chakras, just like waking up and saying what they corresponded to, shit like this which is almost impossible to explain and more importantly, part of the reason this podcast is called synchronicity, everything was one giant synchronicity and I don't mean that in like some conceptual sense I mean if I thought of a person, I would see that, if I had a dream about a person who I hadn't seen in five years I would see them the next day and it was like a repeatable, replicable thing So I shifted into this world unintentionally, unprompted and unconsciously tripped, like I wasn't trying to get this happening, I had a lot of things come through that time, it's taken me many years since then to be able to unpack it and really understand the context of what's happening However, having some type of navigating tool or resource or map of the territory or the terrain would have been fucking invaluable at the time because I was growing in a culture where the only framework this could be looked at is like, this guy's bipolar and I'm not, I have to take in with him for shit eight years because I figured out that it wasn't, it was a psychological schism that I needed to be kind of dealt with, not like medicated to be like, oh yeah, now you're okay But it's amazing to me how little, at least in Western culture, more so now, more so now, that we don't really look at these psychological, spiritual or transcendent experiences through the lens of them being an appropriate or a valid experience for getting insight into who we are or what we're going through, I mean, we'll eventually get to the point of, you know, what you've discovered using all these tactics but I mean, I would love for you to kind of, you know, what are some of the things you've encountered as you kind of played around with or used resources, tools, tactics, methodologies and discovering kind of spiritual realms or whatever we want to call them like what are some themes that have come through over here, how long have you been doing this, by the way, to grow Well, almost 20 years at this point, I started as a teenager and I started, I was doing magic for maybe five or six years before I did psychedelics, but this is great, right, this brings up so much important stuff so let's break down some of this So I do exactly what you're talking about, right, it's psychedelic down, but this is the non-stop synchronous cities, I think so many people have had this experience, if you've had this experience and you're listening to this podcast, you know exactly what it's like, you know, those crazy synchronicities are just pile up and they're non-stop and there's no explanation, but if you haven't or if you're trying to explain this to somebody, they're going to be like, what the hell are you going to, what the hell are you talking about But if you talk about this to somebody who's had this experience, it's like, oh yeah, like I totally know what that is, it's like, yeah, it's like, it's like, you know, it's like, I guess, having sex or something like that Or had a psychedelic experience, it's like, oh yeah, totally, I understand what that is, whereas somebody who hasn't had this experience, they're like, what are you talking about?

And they look at all these magic books, and they're like, what is this, this is like, satanic, is this like, Pokemon, what is this, but if you've had these experiences, then you look at these books and the metaphor that I always love because I think it's the most accurate one is those magic eye paintings from the 90s, you know, it's like, if you know what to look for, or if you know how to look, it's just like, oh yeah, that's a picture of a duck, whereas if you don't, it's just noise, right, so if you've had experiences like this Or if you, okay, let me back up, if you haven't had experiences like this, it's really easy to look at all this stuff and get all kinds of weird ideas about what it really is, but if you had had experiences like this, then you look at it and you're like, oh yeah, like, I know what they're talking about, that's so calm, that's so obvious, which is so obvious, which is why Direct Experience is emphasized in every single esoteric school because otherwise it's a concept, it's an idea and you can do whatever you want with that, it's not a direct kind of, oh yeah, got it.

Right, right, right, totally, so it's really easy for, particularly even people in the so-called occult scene, you know, I think really, it's really easy to get into weird interpretations or kind of tied up into knots about interpreting these things that are really Kind of straightforward, you know, people get all the, and part of it is people get all these definitions from the media, whether it's movie or comic books and things like that, and so they mix in all this like Hollywood hammer horror stuff into it, which is just not relevant in a way, so But, okay, so let's talk about the psychedelic experience, right? Yeah, if you do, and I don't necessarily recommend this to anyone, I'm not at your own risk, you know, I'm saying for someone I know, or someone I met, you know, for entertainment purposes only, people who have had, if you've had a psychedelic experience or a hypothetical person has had a psychedelic experience, you get this incredible, you know, particularly with high doses of mushrooms or something like that, particularly mushrooms, right?

I think this intense like six hour experience where it just like you're in this other world and, you know, hopefully if you're not partying, but you have your eyes closed and darkness and that type of thing, and you are, as Terrence McKenna said, you know, like he had some great quote, where he said, you know, the living room floor, like the living room floor of your apartment with the curtains drawn can be like the ship of Magellan sailing plane or something like this. So, but you have this experience of the six hour download, where you're seeing all this crazy stuff and going into seeing all these gods and spirits and archetypes and your own past and, you know, kind of weird Aztec Mayan stuff, you know, ancestral, all kinds of crazy stuff, and you're in the magical universe.

And so you're seeing the territory. Now, what magic per se is the techniques of magic are approaching that in a way that you don't need substances, and you're having a very targeted and specific experience that last maybe like 10 minutes or 15 minutes of essentially self hypnosis where you're self hypnotizing yourself to go in and have an internal experience, but we have targeted with code and targeting systems, which is really what particularly ceremonial classical ceremonial magic is where you're saying, okay, I want to have this one experience. I want to have the experience of talking to the God Ganesh, and that only and nothing else, and I will not permit anything else to be there. I want to have the experience of speaking to earth elementals or I want to have whatever that actually is.

That's just a archetype, whether that's something in your mind, whether that's something that's been built up from the things, whether it's just you telling your brain to organize all of that information that stored in your head and show you a visual internal representation of that that can tell you something, you can learn something about yourself. So that's what magic is. It's a way of going in and having a targeted and specific experience. Usually, and it doesn't need to involve substances, particularly as you get better and better at meditation and the techniques of the techniques of sorcery, techniques of saying, okay, this is how I'm inducing this experience.

And so that's what magic really is. It's a way of navigating that terrain in a much more precise and clear manner. That's what I was going to say. It sounds like the specificity of some of the techniques are crucial element of what's going on. How does this. So I, 10 years ago, maybe a little longer now 15 was very interested in NLP neuro linguistic program. I was watching a lot of Danler and early, he's a character, but all of this stuff. And I saw kind of morph into, at least what I was watching, morph into kind of the pickup game, the pickup artistry, where it evolved into this like whole like social engineers.

I was just like, oh, this is not the fucking time for that shit. Just be a normal person. Like, you know, you have to construct it. Yeah, totally. I love it. I love it. I love it. I was like, did you ever consider like, you know, one of my one of my female teachers said to me once about all this time. I'm like, did you ever consider asking nicely? Yeah, just like a normal fucking person. And then even I remember there was like, I read Neil Strauss's book and I remember there was like a name they referred to as like, called like natural game. I mean, like, I was like, you mean being a fucking human being.

Not to come up with a name for that. It's crazy. But I did find and still see that people use some of the techniques and some of the insights that were gained through NLP, both for good and practical reasons. And then what I've been increasingly seeing, Bill Clinton is the first person I can ever remember doing the thumb thing, the thumb thing that's like this, this weird political mudra that every fucking person does. And like, I know because I fucking study the unconscious enough and have it on guard enough that like, I know symbols are being deployed against this unconsciously. I know how me and advertising, even if we think we're intellectually smart enough to be buffered against it, that when we see a certain ad in a certain context, that's triggering something well below our conscious special.

So I recognize that these, would you consider something like NLP, a magical technique, or is you would? Yes, I would. And I've been fascinated with NLP for a long time. And I studied NLP really deeply for maybe 10 years. I never went and did like the official certification training, but I don't think it's, I mean, you can pick it up really well from just books and things, and just and observing people who know how to do it well. And, and so I really like NLP, in fact, and I went, you know, as a magical exercise, I worked in advertising, I went to go work on Madison Avenue and an advertising. Oh, no she is.

Specifically as a magical exercise to see, you know, how can I, and, and I was using NLP and I was saying, how can this be deployed in a mass communications level and how, you know, what is, you know, what are the tactics of mass influence. And, and my, I do things like this all, I will immerse myself in situations, particularly of things that frighten me. And, and I'll immerse myself in these things to see what life is like from that spectrum of consciousness. And I almost always come out on the other side of those experiences saying like, Oh, like that's just an awesome thing. And like there's nothing to be afraid of there. And all these people that we think are like, Oh, like, you know, advertising is controlling us like Freemasons are controlling us.

You know, you go and hang out with these people and it's just like, no, they're just people who are, you know, there's nothing sinister there. And actually there's a lot of value there in terms of, and I think the real value with NLP is communicating more clearly. And not just communicating clearly, but thinking about how we communicate with ourselves, thinking about NLP is great for breaking down all of our, for instance, negative self talk, negative self images, negative patterns, negative thought processes. And so I think that NLP is, you know, it is clearly comes out of the magical tradition.

Studying NLP is great because then you can go back to magic and you can see why it works and what it's really doing. You can think about it in the language of, of, you know, particularly anchoring and things like that. So you can use NLP to deconstruct magic and say like, okay, what if this is actually real and why is it working as opposed to what of this is just kind of like spooky symbolism that was built up. Because magic, you know, most of magic is left over from the Renaissance. It's the most of the stuff, you know, and, and I know that it's, it's like really trendy for people to be into like older moors and stuff like this now and be purest and stuff like that, but it's like, look, that was magic in the 15th century.

That was the cutting edge in the 13th century. It didn't have iPhones and shit. Right. I mean, even you go back 100 years and people are like, right, you look at these theosophical books where people are saying like, Oh, yeah, you know, like magic allows telepathy and the ability to communicate with anybody all across the world and send out your thoughts. And it's like, well, you know, we have iPhones and social media. All of this stuff can be done by technology now. So it's like, so magic, magic evolves with magic should be a response to where you are right now here now right where you're sitting this moment.

It's a recent, it's a conversation between you and the universe. So you can study whether it's these older moors or whether it's NLP and or Kabbalah. You can study these things and they're really important and it helps you. It's kind of like training those to understand this mode of thinking. But really, it's magic is happening right now. And it's an organic response. Magic, I've been thinking particularly more and more the last couple of months. Magic is an organic. It is an emergent property of life. It's an emergent property of the universe. It's a universe. It's happening all the time. You go outside, talk to people, go into nature, you know, interact with the world with intention and consciousness and magic will happen.

And particularly when you come into the, when you come at the universe with the belief that it is an intelligent, positive entity, intelligence, and you approach it with that respect. Magic happens, it emerges and you can stop and try and break it down and say, you know, why do this? It's never going to happen. You know, it's like, you can't explain it. You can't explain it with scientific thinking. You can't explain it with NLP or magical thinking. It just happens. It's called magic for a reason. People tie themselves up and not thinking like trying to, you know, I was on a, I did a webinar with some of my students the other day where somebody was saying, what are the best books to read about magic.

And I had recommendations, but I also said that one of the common pitfalls that people fall into. Oh, no, excuse me, they asked, were you scared the first time that magic worked? Right. And I said, yes, because it's really frite. It's like, Oh my God, the universe is not what I thought. Yeah, exactly. It's like holy crap. Now I have to read, you know, what is this evil? You don't have to reevaluate all of my thinking. But I said that one of the common pitfalls people fall into is once they get magic to work, they're like, Oh my God, I don't. This is unpredictable. I'm totally uncertain. I don't have control over this.

This wigs me out. And I think particularly men can spend years trying to master the theory of it and reading all these books and whether or try to explain it with science or neurology. And it's like, but all that time is time spent not doing this, doing it. It's a skill. It's a practice. Let me have so many fucking awesome things you just said, and I would, I would maybe say too that as well as the emerging of magic, I kind of like the analogy of like a windshield that's dirty. And that that shit is always there. We just have kind of our filters and muck over our thing. We can't really see that this is an ever present thing, which validates those constant synchronous experiences that happen at every single time.

So it really is a thing. I forgot my other question and realized I was forgetting it as I was speaking, but I'm sure it'll come back to me. Well, as you remember, just to speak to what you said, I mean, that's what it's all about. It's about like stopping and slowing down. You know, it's like if I have one, my one bit, if I could have one bit of life experience or advice or magical advice to everyone, particularly magical advice, it's slowed down. It's slowed down and pay attention to your experience. How many times have we been in a conundrum or a quandary where nothing seems to be working and nothing is, you know, everything is so frustrating.

And then you realize you slow down for half a second. You realize that that solution or that person or whatever it was was right in front of your face the whole time, and you were just too tight up into your own thought processes to realize it. Yeah, and I change your perception and change your reality. That's right. So I want to talk about kind of the guiding. So the two things that have kind of been dictating of my decisions flow from these things when I decide whether I want to work on a new project or research something or build something or whatever it is, create something. I try to look at it from what is this sort of, what is the ultimate goal here, and the two kind of begins that I use are wisdom, which I define as clear seeing it.

It's not some weird, esoteric, like enlightened masters just clear seeing that's what I mean by wisdom and compassion. Slow down and pay attention. Slow down and pay attention exactly getting to the wisdom and then also this idea of compassion or real unconditional love that that word has been stigmatized too much those words. Compassion, just wanting yourself and all other sentient beings from the Buddhist cosmology to not suffer, to have things be easy, not stress. And we know we live in a world where that's not really going to happen at least in our lifetimes. We're here. Well, it depends how you look at it.

It's not just not suffer. It's because it's suffering is part of life and hard experiences are part of life, but they're learning experiences. Sometimes these things are necessary to grow. Now, I'm not saying this. Obviously, I don't want to fall into the new age thing of saying like, oh, you know, like, you know, your country's being bombed. You know, you didn't think positively enough, I guess. Right, right. Of course not. But I truly believe that the universe is an evolutionary process and all you have to do is just think back to 500 years ago, you know, the suffering that slave trade was still happening.

And it still hasn't totally gone away, but you know, black, black plague, things like this torture, the Inquisition, we face many problems in our world now. But, you know, to be pessimistic to think that to think that we are not growing, that we are not evolving, even if it happens on. And I think it happens on an incredibly quick timeline. Tell me about civilization. Civilization has only been around for what, you know, five, six thousand years, maybe 10,000 years at the most. What is that in geological time and how far has this species come since that, since then to the point where we're talking about colonizing space and creating a eyes and all this, you know, unbelievable.

And the fact that the fact that the people's quality of life now, compared to what it was, even a hundred years ago, no comparison, no comparison, get on Amazon or have things delivered to you. You know, and so, so I'm, I'm, I'm endlessly optimistic. And I think that the real core idea of compassion you touched on earlier, which is that other human other consciousnesses are part of a field consciousness. They're part of us. And so to want of the Dalai Lama says is to want other people to thrive, to grow, to wake up to ignite to live to their highest potential is the ultimate selfishness. In a good way, you know, yeah, that's the world I want to live in.

That's what I want my greater consciousness to be like. I don't want it to be shut down and cynical in this world. Yeah, I want it's part of me, you know, so I want my larger self to thrive, humanity, we are all part of one larger self. So, so why are we being, you know, let's, let's, let's get the party going, you know. Dude, I'm so fucking with it. And the other thing is that I want to point out here is that I have noticed something 10, 15 years ago when I'm having these conversations, there may be a few in part between and maybe a few people really I'm just talking about. We're talking about evolutionary process of the universe.

I mean, yes, I plugged myself into systems and have manifested, you know, these communities around me that encourage these type of discussions, but everyone fucking knows what I'm talking about now. This isn't someone weird fringe thing that isn't reaching me. This is validated by the amount of attention that tunes into the podcast on my network. This podcast, you know, people like Duncan, people like you, it's incredible to see how quickly this stuff really moves like it actually organically sprouts up and look at something like ayahuasca, just as taking a fringe element. Well, look at how this thing has blown up over the past 20, 30 years, 20 years ago, the only people I know talking about ayahuasca is I had a relative who went to a family reunion.

He was from France. He was one of the world's leading researchers on ayahuasca. He told my mom about it. She started going to the jungle in like the 90s eventually met my stepdad there. They got plugged into the wall scene, but to see where it is now, it's just fucking mind blowing and that was an organic consciousness, infusing thing. Okay, here's what I actually wanted to say before I get to up on that. What I love about this conversation, and this is the other thing I've realized from meeting so many people, is that the level of optimism. There's a direct correlation. The deeper people dig into the universe, the mystery themselves, the source, whatever you want to call this stuff is.

In my experience, these people tend to be some of the most optimistic people you will ever meet in life. And it's just a wonderful, I mean, almost in the face, like I remember when Donald Trump was elected, you know, I'm saying, I was recording just a short mini episode of this podcast. I was like, listen, it's not that bad. This shit had to happen. You have to look at this thing. That's the worst thing you can say for some people. Oh, my God. I have my fear world be in my world of anxiety. Oh, my God. It was just like, and like, so, you know, there would people who like, thank you for the perspective.

That's really helpful. But then there are just people, you know, that is, you're insulting their reality and their version of what's going on and how dare you. This is objective, objectively worse in every possible way. And, you know, I'm laughing and saying, like, I, particularly, one of you seriously, I respectfully disagree. And, you know, it's hard to communicate that I have like an inner knowing of why this would be the case and you can get into the specifics. But I do find that that is a constantly invigorating and refreshing thing to encounter when having these types of discussions, you know, collectively or, you know, just dialogues because it validates what you actually get in touch with as you do deeper.

It doesn't, it's not like one person's like, listen, I went as deep as anyone. I mean, shit is hell. We're in hell. Like, this is, Nietzsche was right. This is just a self regenerating horrible hell world for us. I haven't found people who really spend time with themselves and solitude, practicing things, investigating mysteries, building relationships and communities with other people who are in any way kind of just depressed or cynical about it. That, that comes from more of a limited viewpoint of what's going on. This multi-perspective view, which it feels like, I mean, you cultivated so many, it seems in your life is just a, it's a boom, really, to be able to do that.

Totally. Totally. Well, yeah, I mean, we look at this a few different ways, because I totally agree with that. And I think that Nietzsche and Hellrealm, I love that, you know, the universe is very accommodating. Okay, universe is going to give you whatever you want. Right? On a long enough time span with, with enough condition effort and, and openness to it. It's like, if you want to live in, in hell, here you go. Yeah. You know, some people love S&M, you know, like some people love to watch the Saw movies. You want that? There you go. It's all yours. But, but there is a choice. You know, if you want to live in a positive, in a positive universe, you know, if you get sick of Hellraiser, you don't, if you, and you want to watch, you know, if you want to watch Oprah instead of Hellraiser, there you go, you get that.

You know, everyone gets a reality. It's like Oprah, everyone gets a reality. You get a reality. You get a reality. You get a reality. If you want Hellraiser, there you go. You got it. You want, if you want out sentimental, like lifetime movie, you know, like there you go. You got it. I want spirited away. That's what I'm looking for. There you go. I just saw that for the first time, like three weeks, a month ago. And I was like, holy shit. This is where I want to be. This is the world I would like to live in. Right. So let's take it back because I agree with you, which is that, you know, 20 years ago, when I was first into this stuff, nobody, it was so, I mean, it's like people, and a lot of this affects the language.

You know, people talk about the occult, the hidden, you know, and they put all these secret, you know, like robes and secrets and things like this. This is a secret thing that only a few people know about. It's not really relevant anymore, but I remember when I first got into this, you know, I didn't know anybody and then I met a few people and at that point, really the only way to find out about it was joining these secret societies, which were, which are really cool and kind of not cool and kind of dysfunctional, but really the only way to find out about people about this stuff was kind of joining magical orders and meeting really intense and cool and weird and bizarre people, which we've kind of lost.

We have the internet now, but we kind of lost that in a way. And I kind of missed that experience where it was things like, you know, things like these magical orders were so central to the counter. We're in a back man. That's what we're trying to do. Yeah. Like that's what this podcast network is. We just had our first live event in LA and we didn't know what it was going to be like, but we're using as much digital technology and that's my day job, I've done a digital strategy for years now. And we're trying to cast these nets, pull people into interest groups who are really trying to fucking do this and then get them to live events and start building this web and communities.

And I mean, that is the fucking goal, man. It's transcending the barriers though. Yeah, totally. Sorry. I think that's good. No, totally. I think that's good because I think that, yeah, we're in a moment where it's almost like we take it for granted and things have spread so much. People are saying like, Oh, 2012 was bullshit like no, it wasn't slow down and pay attention. Right. Thank you. Look, what's happened, right? We live in a different world. Did you think dragons were going to come out of the sky? Jesus is shooting out of the ground and going to come back to you. Yeah. But all of a sudden we're living in this world that has more and more pure consciousness and that is manifested by just digital, you know, we're able to go all over the world with our mind and create things at a pure consciousness.

It's like, yeah, yeah, it was real. But look, I mean, every time there's a big advance forward in consciousness, there's always a pullback. You know, it's like, it's kind of like, when we see this on psychedelics, you know, it's like when people have fear reactions on psychedelics, I think it's kind of the same process on a larger scale. But I remember 9/11, right? It's like the late '90s were such a, there was this huge push towards, you know, something big was going to happen. You know, this is this time where people, you know, I remember just so much community had built up around Grant Morrisons, the invisible's comic and there were so many awesome things happening.

Doug Rushkop, all this stuff. And then all of a sudden, and it seemed like we were building to this, you know, awesome crescendo of the '90s where it was kind of like everywhere it was going to look like Burning Man, everywhere it was going to look like wave culture and instead 9/11 happened and it was just all of a sudden, you know, now the U.S. is torturing people, we're living in a saw movie and that process was, that was the forage in which my first book Generation Hex came out of and that was, you know, living in New York and just dealing with these awful experiences on a regular basis, you know, going through hell, going through the worst tells, going through the worst parts of consciousness, I spent so much of my 20s immersing myself in the darkest of the dark and the most broken of the most broken places and all the horrible life experiences and hard drugs and all this stuff and I do not recommend this process.

Yeah. You know, I've been there. I've been to the depths of the cliff off, you know, and- It's a little too tantric for me. I like a little bit of going into the world to learn to choose how to take like a half dose, please. There you go. Oh, I didn't know that. You read the, I have you read the, I'm sure the- That's about it. Oh my God. Those books. Yeah, but I linked up with the, you know, I spent a lot of time in India and Nepal as well. So I've linked up with a lot of these traditions. So it's like, yeah, the burning ground, right? And tantric Buddhism is big on this too, you know, the wisdom of no escape, the wisdom of horror, the wisdom of living in the hellraiser universe until you just see through it to the other side.

But we're at a similar moment now, I think, in terms of like 9/11, where it's like people are this Donald Trump narrative or this, the alt-right and things like this and people are, but it's kind of weird because even the alt-right is like weirdly conscious in their own way, where they're like all into magic and they're all into Julius Evella and like all this crazy, like death in June, Nazi occultism. So even- So can you talk about that just a little bit for people who don't know? Yeah. Let me- Yeah, no, I know. But before we get into that, let me wrap up my point, it's just like, look, when the world, you know, it's like the Hunter Thompson thing, when the going gets, when the going gets weird, the weird tripro, whatever it was, like this is the time to not be, this is the time to double down, this is the time to not go into the fear narrative, this is the time to not rest on our laurels, this is the time to remind people, because people always need reminding, they'll forget, they'll go on to the next thing, and then the next thing you know, you're living in Donald Trump's reality and that's, or reacting to it.

So much of this country is just caught into reacting to this one guy in his Twitter feed, and it's like, if you want to talk about magic, it's like, yeah, you know, like he's pretty good at it, but it's like how, you know, it's like people, it's like, look, step back, slow down and pay attention. Know yourself, don't be tied up into this, you know, like you still, you still matter, you still count, you still have a say, you can still create a reality, you don't need to be defined by his, create something better, don't be caught into reacting to this one, you know, like this one cranky, like Fox News, watching, you know, bigoted grandpa.

Yeah. It's just a lot, you know, are you, is your will so weak that you allow it to be controlled that quickly? And you know, mine was for about a week after the election, and then it's just like, yeah, but week after it. That's what it was for me too. It was a week after, but I mean, I know, and then I would say probably the first month I was tuning in, you know, the Muslim ban and stuff like that, I was getting sucked back in, but at a certain point, I knew this before it happened, I was like, I don't have the energy to sustain this level of interest in something I ultimately don't care about.

And like, I care about it. I'm aware of what's going on. Well, we can be care, but there's a difference between a counterattacking and building something better. Exactly. And that's how it's the idea of when you go and protest in the streets that if you have the rambas, then I say all the time, if you go out in the streets and don't have your own ship figured out and don't know what you're actually working towards, you're just going to be an angry person on the street yelling peace at someone, which doesn't do shit. Well, it does do something. There is, there's a real value to that. And I've spent, I spent so much time in the, and I spent so much time protesting and engaging and things like that, but I, at the end of the day, it does count because it is important to show people in the real world that you don't, you're not going along with their reality, you know, but I don't, I'm not saying you're like, you know, and I'm not saying blanket protesting, I've protested at the Supreme Court when Bush and Gore, that whole thing is going down.

I believed it. And I think there's tremendous value in expressing your views. My point was, is if you don't have your aspirations and intentions aligned about why your, your idea for protesting is to let your voice be known to raise cause and injustice. If you're an angry person and you go out and protest against an injustice, the chances of your anger seeping out from other aspects of your life and trans, you know, transmuting that kind of injustice, warranted response, that can put a lot of poison in the well in terms of what you're trying to communicate because it's hard to change people's minds just by.

It's hard to sustain emotionally for a long period of time. We see this with people who have been protesters for more than a decade or they've been involved in radical politics for more than a decade, it really breaks people. And I think part of it is staying in a mindset that is essentially controlled by opposite, you know, that is in opposition to other things, that it's, you're, you're giving your power away to the things that you're attacking. So now I don't say this to be like new age, like, Oh, like all is fine. It's all one. Don't protest. Don't do anything because that's also great. I think to not be engaged is also a trap that I think new age people fall into.

Absolutely. I ultimately, I go, I really take Buckminster Fuller's point where he says that, you know, reality, the future is not changed by attack counterattacking. It's changed by creating something better and creating something that's better and cool enough that other people want it. You know, it's like create a new story, create a new way of doing things. And that's something that I think people have lost particularly in the last year and people are just getting creamed by this new reality. And we saw it in the election, not to dig into that too much, but we, we, the, the lack of the Democratic party to create any type of meaningful vision.

Unreal. Is, is why, is why the elections are lost. So it's, it's unreal to me that that was something that actually transpired. I mean, I think I had a sense of it, but I woke up like a lot of people thinking that Hillary Clinton, we're going to have the first female president. I didn't see the rumblings, I didn't see any of the tactics that were being used. Could you, because I heard you talk about it on Duncan's podcast, I think it was Duncan's. It might have been Zach's actually, it might have been Zach's. But you were talking about the cross section of Keck, the alt-right and kind of some of these, you know, these whole crazy fucking scene of what's going on and this chaos Egyptian God and just, what, what exactly was, who's got, yes, thank you.

So there's so much there. I know. So we, so let's break it down to some core, some basics, right? What we're basically seeing right now is a conflict between the left and the right of the occult. So because there's always, you know, as I said at the beginning of this podcast, it's, it's the spiritual forces that really shape reality and the left wing of the occult is what we think of in people like Robert Nett and Wilson or Crowley or people like this, who are essentially, well, Crowley went back and forth. But this idea that kind of what we've been talking about on this show, which is like enlightenment for everyone, right, like everyone, like this should be available for everyone.

The whole human race should be empowered and, and the downside of that is often what happens is the techniques get watered down to be mass marketed and then the meaning is lost completely, right? The downside of the, of the open approach, the right wing of the occult is something that people have really not been aware of because it's been not been very well represented or people have not even known it has existed. I remember that in the, in the 80s or rather in the, in the, certainly in the, when I was involved in, in kind of the occult world in the late 90s and the early 2000s, there was definitely this kind of current of, of, of Nazi mysticism or this kind of death in June thing, Julius Evella, but it was very, very fringe, even in the occult world, which is already extremely fringe, which was not something that you came across very often.

Now it's incredibly popular. In fact, it's outpacing and popularity, everything else and the right wing of the occult is this, which is the idea that enlightenment should be reserved for a few and that those people should essentially be aristocrats that oversee society. And in that there are tied in to, tied up in that there are often ideas of race. There are often ideas of, well, there's really the, you know, the core of conservatism as I see it is the idea that the past was better. That's what conservatism is on whatever, wherever people are on the, on the right wing spectrum, the idea that there was a golden age.

There was, the tradition is better than, than egalitarianism. Right. And so, so there were a couple of writers. The first one was Rene Ganon wrote a book called Crisis of the Modern World and another one called the Reign of Quantity and the Sign of the Times, where he basically critiques the modern world. And he says that everything is watered down. Everything is, you know, since the French Revolution, the idea that everyone is equal has watered down society to the point that everything is meaningless. There's no depth, there's no, and, and because everyone is equal, that means that no one can actually make progress through a real hierarchy of attainment to actually better themselves and become a better, more integrated person.

And so, Ganon was a traditionalist. The traditionalist school of magic is the idea that, you know, you know, you know, forget this new age stuff, forget chaos magic, forget these ideas, you know, every man and woman is a star, forget all of that, the real thing is to get into a hardcore tradition, whether it's a date of Adanta, he really rated it or Sufism, or Orthodox Christianity, or, and I think that he eventually became an, eventually converted Islam, I think, which was kind of his ultimate, you know, ironically, kind of his ultimate expression of this hard masculine traditionalist ideal. Yes.

Yes. He was a great writer, he had a student named Julius Evola, who's kind of like this, his Sith apprentice in a way. And Evola is, has the, bears the rare distinction of being the only person who criticized fascism because it wasn't right-wing enough, and the Nazis didn't like him, and Mussolini liked him for a while, but eventually Mussolini got tired of him also. So Julius Evola took Gennon's ideas and he melded them with race, and he said that, the first thing that he did was he said, he kind of did this misinterpretation of Hinduism, where he said that we're in the Kali Yuga, everything is degenerated, everything is falling apart, there was a golden age, and that the true mode of initiation is for strong individuals to return tradition and to become aristocrats of the soul, I think, was his phrase.

And it's really, it's pretty pretentious and stuff. Yeah, sounds like it. And, but, this was his idea, but he also melded this to a racial narrative, and he said that, he actually said there are two types of race, there's physical race, and then the race of the soul, you know, that some people have a, their soul has a more- It's taken it to the next level. Yeah, so this guy has been essentially ignored for decades, but he has become largely the foundational thinker of the alt-right to the point where there was a New York Times article talking about Steve Bannon, who's now, I guess, out on the Allison of the Trump administration.

It's Steve Bannon, very inspired by Evola, and we look at the alt-right, and we see these core ideas, and, and so wrapped up into this has been this reaction against, I guess, identity politics, this reaction against social justice warriors, this type of thing. And so the alt-right, it has this very sophisticated intellectual veneer, and obviously, Evola was into magic and using the forces of magic to achieve his goals. And so, so with the alt-right, we basically have this idea of complex, but it's a real memetic complex where we have this wrapped up with all these ideas of standard American conservatives, and there's so many shades and gradations of it, it's wrapped up with this idea of me in magic, it's wrapped up with just straight-out white supremacy.

And so it is a, it is a memetic complex, which is totally opposed and totally a reverse in a way of certainly the more egalitarian and open and humanitarian version of magic that I've always been immersed in, and that we've been talking about on this show. And it's a new narrative about the world that is radicalizing young people, particularly young white men, and they are embracing it as a reaction to, you know, what web culture has been like. And so I think that that is ultimately, I'm more, okay, I think that ultimately these things cancel out, and things will return to balance, but I'm more concerned about this in a way that I am with Trump, because Trump's coming go, and Trump is just another fevered ego, as Bill Hicks put it, but what we're seeing with the alt-right is a new and trenchable, you know, it's like the, it is the radicalization of the young, just like ISIS does, you know, we're seeing a new entrenched belief system taking root.

And I think that particularly people who are involved in the spiritual or occult or New Age world have to really be aware of this stuff. I know people say, well, don't talk about it, don't give them a platform, don't give their ideas a platform, but I don't agree with that. I think that we need to see it and we need to see through it, we need to be aware of it, because so many people in the occult world in the New Age world are just falling to this, and we're seeing people, even websites that were previously only engaged with the more positive aspect of things have turned into websites, like Red Ice Radio is a good example of that.

They used to post on more like kind of fringy conspiracy and occult stuff and paranormal, and then they just became a hardcore white nationalist site. So this stuff is, I guess, people see it as new and exciting in a weird way, and so it's, but it's racist and anti-Semitic and dangerous, and it's the exact, people are tapping into the same pool of ideas and the same pool of energies that fueled the Third Right. These are the same ideologies that led to, that inspired the Nazis, and I don't say that as a, oh, like, people make fun of this, I don't say that as hyperbole, I don't say that to be like, oh, like, everyone I disagree with is literally, it's like, no, I'm not being, it isn't hyperbole, it's like, these are the same ideas structures, these are the same arguments, the same energies, the same band of consciousness that fueled the rise of the Third Right.

And my suspicions about why this is, I think it may, part of it may be, this is a mode of thinking and mode of consciousness that really appeals to amphetamine users and kind of speedy, the speedy consciousness rather than psychics. Like in spirits, a lot of conspiracy stuff, I noticed, when my mind would go very quickly, I remember I saw like JFK, Alvar Stone, I remember my, that sent my mind in a tizzy, and it just was like a constant thing, and I was reading all these conspiracy, and then at a certain point, I was just like, I don't have time to stay on this train and be like, okay, like, maybe it's happening, maybe it isn't, well, you know what, it's not affecting my day to day reality.

I think that's a very suit observation, but this kind of rapid intellectual, you know, left brain kind of logically analyzing, pouring over and making these constructs, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. Well, as you may have gathered from some of the things I've said on this podcast, I've explored a few altered states. But if you think back, I mean, one of the reasons why, why Nazi Germany happened was everyone was on crystal meth. They were distributing prescription methamphetamine to the whole populace, and everybody was on it. They were on it in the factories, the soldiers were on it, this is becoming more known.

Everyone was speeding, and we're in this situation now where all of our young people have been raised on Adderall for ADD and ADHD, and like, people are into the, you know, people have been on these speedy drugs for their whole lives, and they're just given out like candy. And if you're familiar, sorry to interrupt, but it's like, if you're to finish the point, I mean, if you're familiar with amphetamine consciousness or speedy consciousness, if you persist in it for long enough, you don't have empathy for other people. You only care about, you know, the idea of cleanliness and purity and getting everything perfectly right and just this kind of becomes more and more mechanistic and less and less empathic.

And that's what that's, you know, I think there really is a real chemical correlation. These touches on a few things here. One is that I think the Adderall and the Ritalins is kind of like a distillation of something that happened with our culture that kind of was the genesis of the slave trade, which was we as a society in Western culture got addicted to coffee, sugar, and salt. And those substances also speed up our biological functioning and the way we think, and it is integrated into our society. So as we kind of trace that forward, we're seeing more and more kind of hyper focus also. So what I would really relate this to is that for a long time, one of the downloads I got just ridiculous to refer to something like that, but one of the insights I had back when I was really doing quite a bit of psychedelics and exploring energetic states, kind of naturally not knowing what I was doing intuitively is that there was this sense of that the feminine energies have been suppressed for at least 2,500, 3,000 years, specifically by the Abrahamic religions, but culturally, in countless other ways, and it did feel to use the term kind of like a re-harmonizing or rebalancing, the shift is happening slowly but surely.

And that's when I say feminine, I mean, I mean, you know, empathic qualities, openness, but the other feminine qualities, destruction, all the things that, yeah, one of the, one of the, not to interrupt your problem, I mean, one of the really key points that feminism makes is the, I can't quote, I can't quote this too much detail, unfortunately, but one of the really core points of feminism is the, it is the nature of kind of patriarchal control to become angry and lash out at the feminine and that's not just women, it's the feminine energy. So we see men who manifest feminine energy or feminine patterns are, you know, that's also attacked, so, and, and it people attack the feminine within themselves and see it as lesser than or, or not, not efficient or whatever it is.

I mean, our culture, if you look at the things that are de-emphasized in our culture, yeah, we're, we're not really big on the feminine qualities in a lot of ways, and you could see this played out in any, any cultural area you like, you know, it doesn't have to be some esoteric thing, can be politics, it can be anything, you know, I was, I was just started watching this OJ show that everyone was talking about on Netflix, which is far more heavy handed than I thought it would be, but I mean, you can see she made some mistakes, but Marcia Clark, man, people just fucking hated her because she was a woman, they thought she was a bitch, where if, if a prosecutor had acted like that and was a guy, you would just be a good prosecutor, and so there's many different cultural layers to this, but I do think- Oh, of course, I mean, that's what I was going to start with, but it was political, it's the two in our face.

I definitely think that there is this kind of, something is percolate, something is happening whether people know it or not. I, when you were talking about kind of like an apocalyptic thing, another thing that I kind of occurred to me when I was in these more visionary states is that the people who could roll with the changes, the people who recognize the consciousness, whether digitized or otherwise because they're going to become more paramount in our lives and have more of a shaping factor in what we experience externally, the people who are able to kind of drop into that or accept it or roll with it, things weren't going to be so bad.

We'd have some incidents that was going on, but the people who are locked in to stone, rigid reality, materialistic paradigm, it is going to feel like a fucking apocalypse. It is going to feel like the world is being pulled away from you, and people are going to like a caged animal. People react very poorly when their entire world changes right in front of their eyes instantly. It's like the psychedelic state, if you get it too quickly, that ain't going to be a fun experience, and you're probably not going to react best. Yeah. I think, yeah. No, let's take it. It always comes back to the psychedelic experience.

Right, right. If you think about it, maybe it's just because I've done, yeah, I feel you, man, someone I know, someone I met, but it's like, look, if you trip, if you get good at tripping, you get this, you realize that it's all generated by your physiology, right, and if you take a mushroom and you clench down and you freak out and you don't breathe very well, and you haven't been paying attention to your physiology, maybe you've been eating poorly, but you panic a little bit and you freak out. You're going to have a bad trip until you let go, right, until you relax, and then as soon as you relax, as soon as you get to the point where it's just like, fuck it, I give up, like, okay, just whatever, like, I know this is going to be over in three hours.

It's just like, okay, do your worst, but as soon as you do that, the trip becomes amazing and beautiful and awesome, but then that's part of the learning curve of psychedelics is getting to the point where you're just like, okay, I just let go, I just give up, and life, it's not just psychedelic life will do that to you. Life will do that until you're just like, you know what, fuck it, like, my rigid ideas about the world, it's like, nah, life has been sucking for like three, four years, this is like, you know what, fuck it, like, I'm just happy to be alive, like, every breath I'm grateful for, like, it's cool, like, I'm not, I know I'm not going to become like, X, Y, and Z, you know, or like, whatever plan I had, it's like, plans are made to be, are made to be changed, you know, so, you know, so, so, so life does that.

That's what life, you know, life forces you to let go, and then as soon as you let go, you're like, whoa, I'm alive, this is fucking cool, like, this is awesome, you know, why am I, like, getting tied up in all these beliefs and structures that are, like, just taking me away from my experience and telling me that this is not what I want it to be, it's like, no, man, like, this is like, the greatest gift that could ever be in the whole universe, and so I think that, that's something that's like, you know, like, show you very rapidly, and that's why people, that's why it's such a crazy ride and why people can have bad experiences if they, if they haven't done the reading or they're not prepared to let go, or they, or they miss, they misinterpreted, but, but it's not just like, you know, like, life will do that, and I think that psychedelic show you in a very short period of time, what human nature is, and it shows you that if you're clenched down and afraid and holding on, it's like, that thing I always come back to you, that the movie about the Tibetan Bartow, Jacob's ladder.

Have you seen that movie? Oh, my God, you got to see that movie, it's all about this, but like, it's a horror movie, you know, but it's all of it, so it's crazy, it's insane, but it's, it's all about this, but there's a great, it's basically a horror movie about the Tibetan Bartow experience, but there is a quote in there, one of the quote characters paraphrases Meister Eckhart, where he says, if you're, if you're scared of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see demons tearing your life apart, but if you've made your peace, and you've let go, then you'll see they're really angels trying to free you, you know, it's like how much more true does it get than that?

So fucking true, I mean, that's, and just to give a practical framework of what that is, it's when you're going through shitty or quote unquote negative experiences in your life, when you get a little space, get a little time and distance from them, often you'll look back and you'll be like, oh shit, that was the most transformative, one of the most transformative periods of my life, I am actually incredibly grateful that happened, I wouldn't have changed a thing, even though it's all since it was happening, so that's alchemy too, and that's also magic. Okay, so I want to, I asked three questions at the end, three quick questions, and then one kind of longer one, Jason, I'd love to do this again sometime too, and super fun.

So, and recognize when I ask these questions, when I say favorite, it doesn't have to be a favorite, it can be whatever comes to mind. So with that said, what's your favorite color? Blue. Nice. Why? I don't know. I don't like it. I'm feeling on that too, man. What, well, there is this concept that, at least in Buddhism, that one would be incarnating, you know, if you take birth as a human, you gravitate to this pale blue light, that's where in the cyclical, cyclical existence, that's the one you gravitate towards. So some of us who may be a teeny fact like that, but I also love blue. What's your favorite number?

I just thought of mine for some reason. Wow. That's it. I like seven too. I know. I like both of those too. Pye. Pye is a good number. Pye is awesome actually. What is your favorite? Negative? No, I take it back. The imaginary, it's square root of negative one, just to be just to be a goofball. You're the first one to do any negative person. There you go. I love this. Because it's so weird. It's awesome. It's like, if you think about this for a second, I mean, like that's the, that just like breaks everyone's mind. It's like what? You need an imaginary, you need something imaginary to explain the universe.

It's like, yeah, yeah, you do. It's like the shit doesn't make sense. I love that. Fucking love that. You can't explain it all. It's not the best answer. I've gotten on my question. So you win that award. What is your favorite animal? Let's see. I like beavers quite a bit. I like them because they're cute and they can totally destroy human habitats overnight, but it's just, just because they can't and they got the teeth. So, all right. And last question is, what's a practical tip that you could share with people listening that has helped you in your life? This could be for any, any round. Well, the, I can go, you want better on that, which is I have a whole free course.

Yes. Yes. Not to, not to turn it into that, but no, I have a whole course that will give you all the basic techniques of magic. Oh, okay. Okay. Before I say that, my tip is what I said, which is slow down and pay attention, right? Slow down and pay attention. Slow down, pay attention, closer. So I do have a, so I have a free book and course on all the fundamentals of chaos magic. It's a, well, it does, there's sigils, there's, there's all the basics of meditation, the basics of how to become a magician, how to, how to interact with the universe, how to not make the common mistakes people make when they're getting into magic.

There's a whole like extensive daily meditation about how to, how to create sacred space and create a magical circle that you step into to become your greatest, most actualized self. There's, man, it's great. It's a whole, it's a whole, it's like a whole gift bag for everyone who's listening to this. It's just like, it's got everything you need to get started. You can get that at, I apologize as URL is slightly long, but it's free dot magic, which is M-A-G-I-C-K dot me slash offer. So it's free dot magic dot me slash offer free dot magic dot me slash offer and make sure to spell magic with a K. So M-A-G-I-C-K if you go that you will get everything and it's free. And I'm going to do you one better. I mean, I'm going to, I'm going to put links to all this stuff on both places. This podcast here is my iPod network and it's in podcast show notes, everything. And if there's anything else, you know, you want, I'll put that in the intro too.

Okay. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. This is a great conversation. I'm glad you liked this. Yeah. We'll, we'll do it again soon. And wait, you're working on a book too? Yes. Yeah. Well, is that in the pipeline? It's in the, well, it's, it's at the publisher right now. So I don't want to talk to you. No, I don't, I just, just run it to get that percolating people's imagination. Yes. I spend about a, I, I, I've kind of been missing from the internet because I took a year and a half off to write a book that just, just became, like literally every waking moment of my life was spent on it. Yeah. The original manuscript was a quarter of a million words. So it was, yeah, it was a tremendous amount of research that went into it. So that will be out probably next year. I don't want to say too much about it because it's still in the pipeline.

Totally. But there's going to be tons of more, there's tons of exciting stuff that's going to be coming out. I mean, obviously there is, uh, ultra culture is my, my blog, ultraculture.org. And then my course site, which is magic.me, uh, has tons of, of, of, you know, trainings and all this stuff, you know, the free, the free ebook, uh, gives you the basics. So that 's the place to start of all this stuff. But, uh, there's tons of new material coming in. And, and I'm getting into also, I'm getting into the, the, the wide and exciting world of being a YouTube personality, YouTube videos, but they won't, they won't monetize my videos because they think I'm like Richard Spencer or something like that. Because I talked about, I mentioned, uh, cause this whole PewDiePie controversy, you know, they think that all this alt-right stuff has been spreading on the internet. So like YouTube has been cracking down a monetization. So I did like a video about Donald Trump and they triggered their algorithm and they were like, you know, we're, we're not putting ads on this. This could be inappropriate. So, well, really easy way if you're interested to gain the YouTube system is to use their ad words, um, for YouTube and put in low amounts of money, like five or 10 bucks and advertise in, uh, non-English speaking countries like Indonesia, where the cost per click is incredibly low and it jacks up views. And then you have a crackload of views and the algorithm still funnels it in the same way. Yeah. Wait, it doesn't, so it doesn't matter if it's in English though. No, because well, because there's two things that going on here. Obviously if you're looking at it from a conversion standpoint where you want people to actually be engaged, that's not what's happening. However, you're jacking up views because the people who are watching it are just getting served it and they're clicking it and they don't really know what the fuck is going on. Maybe they're getting subtitles. However, when you have a video that's maybe getting like 500 to 2000 views and it goes up to 10,000, 20,000, 30,000s, you get start getting bumped up in the search algorithm. So you start showing up optimize your other videos with a secret keyword.

So if you use a secret keyword in all of your videos and the suggested videos in the right, what is a secret keyword? So a secret keyword is my secret keyword, if I was going to get it out, I use Hanuman 13, 13, 13, 13, it links internally all of my synchronicity videos that I upload. So when people go to the suggested videos on the right, instead of seeing a bunch of random other videos related to who the guest was or something else, they'll see my podcast because it's internally linked in the database. So you can basically kind of get the system to work for you. And then that way, you know, if you're monetizing in other ways, like your course or something, you can direct people gently to a place that has actually been more valuable. So yeah, that's a great tip. I'll try that out.

Cool. Dude, thank you so much. This has been. Yeah, thank you. Cool. We'll be in touch. All right. Please. Yeah. Well, thanks for tuning into this episode. How fucking cool is Jason go check out what he is doing. So he put together a free course and magic that you can check out. And I am going to get this right, even though he just mentioned it, I'm going to get this right. So you can go there. I've actually taken this. I took it like a year ago. I thought it was pretty cool. And just as an aside, I made a sigil, my first sigil about a week ago. Kind of already forget what it looks like. I'm letting it simmer in my unconscious. And I thought it was a pretty cool practice. And he has a lot of things on his website, ultra culture. You can check out and connect with him. But here, please, please check this out.

Take the time. Here's the URL free dot magic dot me slash offer. So magic in this case is spelled M A G I C K. So check that out. I'm going to have Jason on again soon. Really go check out his other appearances on Duncan's podcast. He has two of those and also on Zach Larry's. It's all happening. Thank you for listening past the music. I have some really fun stuff coming out in the music department soon reminder. If you're listening at this point, you're probably somewhat engaged, patreon.com slash synchronicity. There you can become a patreon, a patron of what I am creating, not just the podcast, music, writing other stuff.

That's the best way to support the show. I'm going to say at this point. Other than that, you're fucking awesome. Thank you for listening. And I will see you next week. The world's biggest soccer tournament has arrived and you can trade the entire tournament on calcium. Argentina is currently trading at over 8% to win it all, meaning a $100 trade pays out over $1,000 if they win soccer's biggest prize on calcium. You're trading against other people in a live market, no house, no wants makers for a limited time. Double the calcium app and use code hoops to get $10 when you trade 10 K L S H I calcium trade the beautiful game. Any less only restrictions and energy related requirements apply event content trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors, prices, values and available markets made different from those mentioned from more information to calcium.com/regulatory.

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