Don't Turn A Blind Eye with Zach Leary

(upbeat music)

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity. (upbeat music)

Welcome to synchronicity. My guest this week is my first guest. Of all time, the original Zack Leary. Zack, as you may know, has a wonderful podcast called "It's All Happening." Go check it out. He also does the maps podcast. Really, just a cool dude who I've known now for Yeesh, five years, has it been that long? Wow, I really enjoy speaking with Zack for a few reasons. One is, he's incredibly intelligent. Which is no surprise given his father and just that lineage. But he's also in his own right, just an incredible thinker. And also, another reason I love speaking to Zack is, he has experience on what I would call both sides of the fence here.

The material, political, practical, earth realm, knowledge of what's going on here. As well as many different modalities of Eastern philosophy, mysticism, esotericism. So, being able to bridge those and bring perspectives from both to our current life situation, which is both, is always a treat for me. So, anyone who's kind of well versed in both of those areas, I always enjoy speaking to. So, this conversation is primarily about what the topic of my last podcast was about. Which is the ongoing immigration crisis, which is not really an immigration crisis. It's a hate crisis of what's happening to young children.

Some as young as a few months old, being separated from their families, many of whom are trying to seek asylum, which is a legal international right. And they're just, you know, either being caged. There's lots of reports of psychotropic drugs being pumped into them to sedate them. Very poor conditions and just really inhumane treatment. And as you know, from the last podcast, if you heard, it's been on my mind. And quite frankly, if you live in this country, if you live in a Western society and you like to think that we have some of our shit figured out and you're not paying attention to this, I don't know why you're into any of this stuff.

I don't know why you're into any spiritual concepts, any new age concepts, any Eastern philosophy, psychedelics, meditation, any of these things, if those are where your interests are. And if you're listening to this podcast, they probably are around those things. And you're not tuning into this, what are you doing? And this is a genuine, it's not even a rhetorical question. I recognize this is a podcast and you can't answer me back, but I'm a little concerned right now. And I've been having this conversation with people I know and trust, you know, and just think, I think have good perspectives on things.

And I'm a little, I gotta say, I'm a little concerned that a lot of people in the quote unquote spiritual scene aren't talking about this. And it does, it concerns me. And I don't really know how far I wanna go with this in terms of calling people out, probably not by name, but if you're using your spirituality or your compassion or whatever modality you're using and to explore your inner worlds and the inner worlds, and you're turning away or ignoring this type of suffering and this is not as far removed from us as we like to think. And one thing I will say on this topic is, if you're a white dude, living in the United States and you're not paying attention to this, that's your privilege, man, that's you not recognizing that you are in a position that is essentially, you're in this position because it's been built on the backs of other people through generations.

They've been talking about, I've been listening to Ron Churno's Washington biography. Ron Churno, by the way, oh my God, what a writer. But the juxtaposition between that and Trump, which you'll hear us talk about in this episode is obviously crazy and what's going on now, but Washington had to do this very interesting dance in his life and to his credit, he freed all of his slaves, which were a lot, for many reasons, he had so many, but he freed all of his slaves when he died. But he was conflicted his entire life about his economic, and he was going through basically hardships economically, his entire life, but that was the system in the South, particularly in Virginia, and he struggled with it.

And honestly, if you're gonna look at Washington and say he had big faults, the slavery issue is one that he did not fix until he died. And you can say that's like, well, he didn't have to deal with him then, so it's not that noble of the thing. If you don't recognize that you have some innate privilege as a white male in this country, if you're talking about things like meditation and psychedelics and all of these things, and not talking about what's going on in our border and not talking about people who are being marginalized and just discriminated against for lack of better term and so much hate directed their way, I consider it inauthentic, it's just that simple.

I made a tweet today, I thought about deleting it, but I didn't, and I hope that meditation teachers who follow me don't think I was talking about them, but I said, listen, Kanye West is more authentic than your standard pop meditation teacher, and I believe that. I, you don't have to like Kanye West, he's done plenty of stupid shit, I don't go to Kanye West for my political hot takes, so I don't really have a problem with him, but I think he's an authentic genuine person. I do, I really do, I think if you listen to his music, I think if you listen to him speak, you can say a lot of things about him, he's got a ton of flaws, but being an inauthentic person isn't one of them, and I guess what I'm saying is this, is I would rather someone be really just like, not intellectually smart, not really, you know, telling you the best things you should be doing with your life, you know, meditate and be compassionate, not embodying Dalai Lama like qualities, but if they're speaking their truth and have an open mind, that person is certainly capable of the type of action that's needed in these situations, as opposed to someone who's talking about meditation, talking about the self and all of these concepts, and doing quite frankly jack shit about any serious situation in a life, and yes, I'm a firm proponent of working on yourself before you go out into the world and try to take any serious action, that's a given, that's been my premise for this podcast and my life forever.

So I really do believe that, but if you are a persona out in the world and you have positioned yourself as someone who's wise, compassionate, has answers for people, and of course, all of us have answers, all of us have things that can help someone else, but if that's your shtick, if that's your thing, and you're able to stay silent and not deal with what's going on or not talk about or not clue people into what's going on, what the fuck are you doing? I guess that's where I'm kind of having this schism now, and I've spoken about it a little bit on this podcast, how I've been somewhat disillusioned by the spiritual new age communities and kind of the clicks and little groups and cult-like things that can emerge, and really it's just the glorified spiritual materialism, but I remain perplexed how in all walks of life, but especially the spiritual scene where people are trying to high horse themselves so often just can have this type of blind spot, and there is a contingent of people who I will not mention what I call bro-shamanism, bro-foe-spiritualism, that really freaks me out, tremendously, I've mentioned and I've joked that bros are my sworn natural enemies and they're not at bro-friends, but yeah man, this kind of tunnel vision, only paying attention to the spiritual or life improvement things that make the self better, that reinforce the ego, that reinforce your identity, I find this to be a troubling outgrowth of this scene, I feel as though spiritual materialism is gaining in popularity and without the acknowledgement that it's happening, and I also have to, just for clear transparency here, I have to reflect on this stuff a lot because I can quickly easily just devolve into going into the bitter, angry, fuck those people, what's the matter with them, I'm doing the right thing, I don't want to do that, that doesn't help anyone, it doesn't help me first and foremost, it certainly doesn't help anyone listening if I'm just spouting anger and dissatisfaction with certain contingents and people, but I do think it's important to say like, listen, we gotta call this shit out at a certain point, if this is the community that we're created, I have MindPod Network, I've worked with a lot of these people in previous and I have peers, I think it's very important when we continue to have these discussions, I love talking about psychedelics, I love talking about altered states of consciousness, I love talking about synchronicities and mysteries and things that we don't understand, and of course this podcast can continue to remain about this, but just like when Donald Trump was originally elected, what I was speaking about on this podcast with people like Vic is, my message then was, listen, don't freak out now, don't lose your minds now, we haven't seen what is going to happen, that doesn't mean we don't care at any point on this, and this is just illusion and we shouldn't care, every time some serious action is taken against people, whether it's the travel ban or the immigration thing or just the overt racism and sexism, we have to say something, because if we don't, and we're just in our little filter bubbles of our world and oh, I'm so spiritual and I'm meditating in this, that and the other thing, that does not help anyone, and in fact, it is counterproductive to what you're trying to actually do, if you are using any healing modality to try to improve your life and the lives of people around you, and you omit the suffering of the world, it's not gonna work, it's just that simple, it will not work, you can live on your own private, utopian mental headspace and be so happy that you've transcended your ego and are getting everything you want, but is that really the world you wanna live in, where a portion of the populace is completely discriminated against and I have trouble reconciling that, and I see when people are just caring about as business as usual, it's not that we dwell on these things, but action, we're getting to the point where action needs to be taken.

I am now a firm believer in getting out to vote, I think that will be an important thing, I am no huge fan of the Democrats, I consider them hardly progressive on many issues that are dear to my heart, but clearly the alternative of what we're dealing with and to my Republican friends, I don't know how you do the dance, I don't know how you justify some of the things that are going on, I know Kanye West has, I'm gonna go back to Kanye, Kanye has a line in his new song Yikes, and I think it's really poignant, and the way he says it more than the words themselves, really just communicate the veracity of it, which is 100 grand will make your friend turn to ops, and I think unfortunately, that is very, very, very, very, very true, which means that $100,000 can turn someone you trust and like who's a good friend of yours into an enemy very quickly if positioned that you're holding, any, that is a dynamic that exists, and if you don't believe it exists, you haven't been around long enough, but money can change people, and I think part of what's happening here is this world, this spiritual retreat, talk, book, lecture society has been plugged into the system of making money, which over time, decades, years, months, whatever it is, changes people, if I know I write an article about being a compassionate person, and that directly leads to money or opportunities for me, what does that teach me, Pavlonian wise, what does that teach me, I should be doing?

If I learn if I talk in a very voice like this, then it is very important to be aware of the suffering of the world, and people respond to that, and I get accolades and more money thrown at me, what does that teach me to do? If I learn that I don't have to say anything about injustice around the world, I don't need to deal with it, bring it up, everything is hunky-dory, we're all good, we have money, we have jobs, we're good to go, we're never gonna get arrested for immigration, what does that teach me to do when they're suffering around me that doesn't directly affect me in that moment? So these are the questions that I'm trying to deal with, I'm also trying to figure out what actions can we take to make this better, I don't wanna dwell on this and just get angrier and angrier, I think the polarized reactions, well typically I'm against them, I think there is a level of outrage, moral outrage that we need to be aware of, and kind of embody and deal with that, so we can figure out what the appropriate action to take is, and that's really important, but if we're just skirting that, I don't know, I don't think it's good to do, and it's something that I have been seriously reflecting on related to the entities I've helped create in the past, currently I'm heading, including this podcast, and this affects everything from getting people who have marginalized voices on this show, more women, more minorities, more stories we don't hear about, my biggest concern is that spirituality for some esoteric exploration distances us from the world we live in, right?

That's not what we wanna do. My dad's telling me a really interesting thing about Rudolph Steiner saying that Buddha went to Mars at a certain point and is helping out the planet by living on Mars, and what a concern was of, I think it was Christian Rosenkrantz who was talking about was that there was gonna be two classes of people. One, in the mold of Saint Francis the Assisi would be these withdrawn, spiritual kind of people who are aware of the grand, spiritual scenes, but have withdrawn from the world. And then on the other hand, there's gonna be these people who are materialist, hardliners who believe this is it, this is all we have, intellect, logic is all there is, and that's it.

And he said, it's a very interesting passage, I'll find a link to it, my dad sent it to me. Where Buddha has gone to Mars and is working on the war planet to kind of mitigate some of these troubles of people splitting off into these two different categories. Regardless of whether you think the Buddha is on Mars and all of this stuff, I think it's important to say that there aren't two classes of people. Yes, we may deviate to one end of that spectrum, but really at the end of the day, we're in both. We embody both of those worlds, and it's important for us to remember that while we're looking at these situations.

So be kind to each other, don't meet hate with hate, but also don't be afraid to say that no, it's not okay to compromise with people who are just espousing pure unadulterated hate. And it's really not okay to just tune this shit out at this point. If you're still in like, I don't really care, who cares, not a big deal, it doesn't affect me. And you're talking about meditation, any of this stuff. Fuck off. Seriously, that's that, and listen. I have friends who are doing this, and I don't mean that like they're terrible people, but I mean, really check what your priorities are in life because this could be us.

That's the truth, that's why this should matter. If not for any other reason, recognize that if an ice agent can go to someone who looks differently and say, "Hey, you're coming with me," and there's no due process involved, you know? Yeah, I guess if you're a lucky white guy, that's probably not gonna happen to you, but that could happen to anyone else in the street who you look at. It doesn't look like you. That should mean something to you, and if it doesn't, fold up shop. Don't do this shit anymore. Don't talk about any of these things anymore because you're not helping anyone else at the end of the day, truthfully, you're just gonna dilute them and you're not helping yourself.

And I have multiple people in mind when I'm saying this, and you probably don't know who they are, and that's the way I wanna keep it. I'm not in the business of calling people out directly for what they're doing. I think people should have their own ability to figure this out, but for general, for you listening, I think this is important shit. If you have friends who are just tuning this out and it's like, oh yeah, whatever, that sucks. Like, call 'em out on it, you know? They're your friends, they're people you care about. You don't wanna see them going down an ignorant path. So, anyway, I know this is a very long intro.

It does dovetail into this episode 'cause we pretty much talked about this the entire time. Zach is awesome. Please go check out his podcast. It's all happening. He does the Maps podcast. Like I mentioned before, he's just a cool dude. He's been working on a book for a while. I know when it's done, it's gonna be really, really cool. He's just a nice guy. So, you'll hear that in this conversation. I apologize for rambling at the beginning, but it is something that's been on my mind for quite some time, and still will remain to be, because I don't think we're getting a solution for this stuff in the next few weeks or months.

So, that's it. Patrons, thank you so much for supporting the show. I'm gonna try to do more Patreon exclusive stuff. I wanna keep it at a low enough price point that this isn't gated content, but enough that maybe I'll release some bonus episodes, some bonus hot takes for people who maybe are behind the wall and don't wanna hear me talking shit about people, every intro like this. I'll put some content there. I have music coming. I've made it a priority. So, there's good stuff on the horizon in that front. Just thanks for listening, keep your head up, try to remain compassionate in all aspects of life.

I don't do it every day. I forget all the time. So, don't think that there are these people out there who are just these wonder magic beings who will spout these spiritual aphorisms to you who are just perfect people. That may be a persona they're trying to portray. I guarantee they get in fights. I guarantee they yell. I guarantee they lose their cool. I guarantee they do fucked up shit to other people, 'cause people are people at the end of the day. Anyway, now I'm officially done. Let's get to the episode without further ado. Here is Zach Weir. (upbeat music)

Yeah, man. Well, let's get started. Is there anything specifically you don't wanna talk about or do like, the one thing that's been on my mind is this fucking border shit. I mean, like I can't not fucking think about this shit. It's insane to me. But is there anything you specifically wanna touch on?

Not specifically, no?

Cool.

Yeah.

Cool, man.

I'm good with anything.

All right, awesome. Well, thank you for coming on again. It's been a while. And I'm really stoked to talk to you. It's always fun.

Yeah.

As I just alluded to, I feel like the nation, at least our country and internationally, they've been, you know, two major things withdrawing from the UN human rights. Like, why would you do that? Number one, but number two, the more oppressing one is what's going on with the children, you know, families being separated. And just before we got on the air, Trump did this weird fucking like propaganda, Nazi propaganda conference where like he said, yeah, I'm signing it to end that. But it was like really this weird like round table of like all his cronies talking about how great Trump is. It was fucking crazy.

I guess like I'm curious because I know you were one who walks the path and looks at this stuff, you know, not as maybe like reactionary, like me in some sense, like, oh my God, how are they doing this? But also can look at it from different perspectives and be like, what, what is going on here? What's your take on this situation?

Well, the first part of it, you know, it goes more towards my practice, I guess than anything. I mean, yes, I do follow politics considerably, I suppose, but I mean, the first thing that comes up is obviously, you know, you just think about compassion. It's like, well, like it's the most uncompassionate, unkind, barbaric and unnecessary thing to do. It's like, what is the point here? And the point is just to be uncompassionate. It's just to teach these people a lesson. Just sessions even said that in a matter of words. It's like we are a nation of laws, therefore we are going to teach these people a lesson.

You shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't be showing up at the border asking for asylum with your family. And if you do, we're gonna show you. And then he quotes the Bible and saying, well, you know, God is, the government is ordained by God. So this is, I mean, he really, we've got pretty out there with the whole thing. So that's just the, you know, the first thing that comes up and it's just, and it's just so, so sad. And I kind of, you know, I'm not the most patriotic person in the world, but I am an American. So I do feel somewhat embarrassed. And I do live in Los Angeles, which is not a border town like San Diego, but we have, you know, one million undocumented people in Los Angeles, one million, you know.

And I went to school with many of them during high school and, you know, and many of my friends, and it's just, it's the community we live in here. You can escape at Los Angeles. So you just kind of stitch all the dots together and you're like, God, this is just, this is really a tragic unfolding of events. So that's the first thing. But then there's the political ramifications. And when, yeah, at first Trump was blaming it on the Democrats, because the actual, you know, wording of the immigration law, you know, was asked during a Democratic conference, which it's just, it's just so insane. Anyway, but what came up for me with that, the metaphor that came up with that for me, it's sort of like the equivalent of like a highway patrol officer who pulls you over for speeding.

Like you don't get a speeding ticket for going 68 in a 65.

Right, exactly.

Like ever.

Never.

Never, never.

Yeah, there's a level of discretion. There's some malleability to the letter of the law. You know, it's like no, you know, a highway patrol officer will give you a speeding ticket for a 68 in a 65. You can bend it, your best judgment here. And it's the same thing here. They've been doing it border patrol agents, they've been doing it a certain way for many, many years. And all of a sudden they got the zero tolerance mandate up on high and they just, you know, so there's a level of perception here and they're choosing not to go with that. They're choosing not to do that.

Right, right.

But still, at the end, I mean, I know, I said at the beginning, like they're trying to teach these people a lesson, but still that doesn't really feel like a compelling enough reason for the why. Like what's the why? I still don't even get it from their side. Why? Like it's just such a, how does this serve anybody? Obviously, this isn't, I mean, I don't know how it's polling. I haven't really checked.

Poorly, poorly. I mean, I think a mother report, right? Yeah, like pretty much, I mean, I think I saw one poll I didn't see the sample size and who was, but it was amongst Republicans. It was more popular.

Yeah, just stitch together, okay.

No, it's, it's certainly cool.

Amongst the Republicans, you saw a sample size.

I saw a sample size, yeah, that said Republicans, you know, more than not supported it. I don't know how big it was, but then I saw another one that basically said, amongst the entire country, that very few people, this was incredibly unpopular, which is like, I mean, kids are no kids. Like now that I have a kid, it's like torturous to just hear and read and watch these things 'cause you know what it's like, you know? Just like dropping my kid off a daycare is like, there's, there's a level of like, oh my God. So like it's, but it's very, very unpopular. And then you're right, like it's something I actually didn't consider like, what is the real?

I think it's just like a really shitty plan to kind of embolden what Trump considers the core of his base. And maybe that's just racist people who, you know, maybe they have some data points that say like, these people while the minority legitimately, you know, want to scapegoat people. And this is how we do it. And you know, I don't think they expected it to be this unpopular truthfully. I think they're just buffoons in a lot of ways.

Yeah, I think they're just buffoons. And to be honest, I think as with so many things that Trump does, I don't think he really understood what was going to happen here. It came from Jeff Sessions and Homeland Security and Border Patrol. And it came from, you know, the more--

The Jack, yeah, it came from them. I think Jeff Sessions was very aware of what was going to happen. But I don't think Trump was when, you know, you know, they come to him and they said, okay, we're going to put the zero tolerance, policy and real effect. And he's like, yeah, yeah, cool, cool, you know. He doesn't, you know, he doesn't read dossier's. He doesn't read, you know, he doesn't read the daily briefings. He, I don't know if you read "Fire and Fury."

Haven't.

Yeah, I actually did. I read about two thirds of it. Oh my God. And if you believe what's in the book and I'm going to choose to believe it, I mean, the guy, you know, spent time in the White House and really did his research. I mean, you know, Trump literally doesn't read.

Yeah, I know that. I mean, that's awesome.

He watches like six hours of television a day. He starts morning with, you know, Fox and friends and flips back and forth between that and CNN. And, you know, storms out in the middle of meetings. He has an attention span of like, you know, a child. He doesn't understand nuance. He doesn't understand details, you know. So I, as much as I, you know, can't stand the guy, I don't think he knew what was going to happen here.

Yeah, I mean, and he does seem like quintessential reactionists. Like, you know, he tries to get ahead of it, says, no, this is kind of a deterrent because there's enough people in his ear saying, you should say that. And then the next day he's like, all right. Ivanka told me we need to stop this. Melania told me we need to stop it. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty nuts though, because I think I read someone posted, you know, back before the election, you know, there are obviously people like, I'm not voting. There's no difference. And I am someone who's not any true fan of the Democratic Party at this point, you know, maybe certain persons in it.

But for the most part, really, just totally disillusioned. And I saw someone post like, you know, for people who thought there was no difference, like this may be one example where there would have been just slightly different. And that's important. I mean, that's like, it's emboldened me to think that political action is more powerful of a tool as, you know, a millennial like me, an old millennial like me, maybe would have cast aside before. 'Cause this is like, this is gut wrenching shit, man. Like this is not like, you know, I don't need to see a white baby be ripped from its arm. It's like any child is a fucking child.

Like we don't, you know, and then it's this close to home and it represents like, I don't consider, you know, I've been, I've been listening to my Ron Churno audio books, Hamilton and Washington and the juxtaposition between who those people were and what their just moral caliber was. And what we have now is just like, it's insane. It's just truly insane. And I wonder like, you know, on a more esoteric level, like what is this a symbol of? Like what's your kind of take on that? 'Cause I know you're so well versed in a lot of different kind of Eastern and Western kind of esotericism, mysticism, like, you know, especially giving your father, like what's your take on this stuff?

Well, you made a lot of good points there. One, I just want to back up for one second and how you did say that there is the difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Yeah, I mean, it is true that, you know, the Democratic Party has lost its way in terms in terms of corporatism and lobbying paths and war. There's no question about that. But there is a fundamental difference, though, you know? And this is a very, very, very good example. You know, another example is how the Trump administration is seeking to roll back all of the fuel efficiency standards that Obama put into place.

And, you know, automakers don't even care. They don't even care. It's not even driven by them. You know, the innovation, they're past the innovation now. It can be done, like he's doing it just to do it. Yeah, you know, and that's another one. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's, yeah, and it is great going back and reading about those guys. One of my favorite go-to sort of historical refreshers is the HBO series, John Adams.

Oh my God, that's so good. Paul Giamatti.

Oh. - Paul Giamatti. And the book, too, is great. But in some ways, the series, it just really kind of just takes you there too. - So good.

These guys, they really cared about the moral fiber. They really cared about the people. Yes, they were petty and also had arguments as well. But they were very, very smart people. You know, they were very well educated. They were very well read. You know, it was considered a great, you know, insult to your position and to, you know, the fabric of the country to not understand all sides and to not read about it and to go talk to the people and understand the nuances and the emotional, you know, the emotional character behind, you know, every debate that you're getting into.

Right.

And, you know, as simple as it is and as kind of shattered as it is, I mean, I don't think anybody really great wants to be in senior levels of government anyway.

Right. Right?

They just don't.

Isn't this like a, this void that we see in the legislative executive, the whole, the judicial, every single aspect of it, I mean, even the police force, right, which is more from a community kind of safeguard to, again, like SS troops like knocking down minority stores. Like it's really, it's almost like comically or well-ian at this point. It's like, that's where I just like sometimes just step out of it, you know, amidst the suffering and like, what the fuck is going on here? Like this is nuts. Like this is like this, especially in this country, which like, I know it seems like this distant, weird statue not living ideal of what a country was, but like the people who really did found this country and slavery is, we're not sidestepping the slavery at all.

Like this is why I find these characters so fascinating and love characters who are abolitionists and have the guts to be abolitionists back then. But like seeing how this country came to be in a world that wouldn't have thought twice of separating children from parents and the imperialist society, it's truly incredible. Like in 250 years, this is where we are. That's like not that many generations. And I just wonder, you know, I don't even have a theory on it. It's just the juxtaposition from going like, I'll be taking a jog or a walk or driving, listening to now, Washington's bio. And then I'll just, you know, get home, read Apple News or Twitter for five minutes.

I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Like this is insane.

What happened?

Yeah, yeah. - What happened? And then, I mean, if you especially just take a look at the presidency, it's just, you know, to kind of separate that concept and that office and the people who hold the office. I mean, you know, the American presidency and all of its kind of intellectual and patriotic rigor was really, it really ended with Kennedy. You know, I mean, Kennedy was like the, you know, the first thing that happened that destroyed the American presidency up until that point. You know, I mean, of course you can pick apart everybody who held the office, nobody was perfect, but it was still, it was a job that people wanted, you know?

And it was, and you know, the atmosphere around around the perception of the office and the atmosphere around the sort of adoration and knowledge that it took to hold the office was pretty, you know, it was pretty extreme. And you can see if you go back and look at polling data, like, you know, voter turnout up until voter turnout has petered off since Kennedy. It keeps going down with every generation and every decade, it gets less and less and less. Up until then, I mean, voter turnout was in 80 to 90 percentile.

Wow, really, holy shit. I mean, it makes sense, that's what it should be.

Yeah, yeah, I know. And it was, and now, you know, the cynicism and it's true. I mean, if you go and you look at your newsfeed or whatever, after listening to Washington's biography, the juxtaposition is, you know, it's pretty chilling. And I'm just curious though, what is the solution? Because I do, I am of the belief and sometimes not of the popular one that, you know, we still do need the fabric of government, least in the way that it's, we're currently structured in the way that this place currently, you know, moves and shakes and rotates, you know, we still need the fabric of government to sort of be, you know, firing in all cylinders.

And it's just a reactionary, like there's never any innovation, you know, they've just, they listen to polling data and they just, you know, they react just to certain segments and to certain soundbites and, I don't know.

Well, it's interesting because this is, this was, I was telling Alexis, I was like, there's two things that seem to have persisted since the inception of our government, as we know it. One is the terrible treatment of veterans, like just like the worst possible, like that started from the war. Like the flexing thing encountered, that's where it started. States didn't give a fuck, citizens didn't give a fuck, no one cared, they didn't get paid, they didn't get clothed, they didn't get fed, it was nuts. So that's one thing. And the other thing is, is Congress, for the most part, outside of the people who actually shaped, you know, like Hamilton being one who really shaped the government and created it, the people who are elected to Congress were usually totally idiotic, just like for the most part, the vast majority really didn't get shit done.

Like you said, it's kind of always been a reactionary thing. But to your point, I do think that we need, for as much as we want to shit maybe on the federal, federal centralized, which is the thankless job to probably never be something that's totally, you know, revered as someone who's done something great since George Washington. John Adams, FYI like, was hated during his time. Like he was a terrible president. Retrospectively, he's viewed much more fondly, but like truthfully, like no one liked him. Like so, it is a thankless job. But I do think there has to be some type of integration or I don't know, compromise between what we have now, which is just such a bought and sold.

It's past the meme, it's past people even doubting it, but corporations own everything. And people who genuinely look at a situation like this, and like it's hard to believe that like, it feels like social media and the outcry that happens from that and these donations funds has as much as anything to do with this actually getting changed in Congress, Congress didn't do anything. Like I get that the Republicans hold the Senate and I get that there's like a lot of things that they can't really do. But like for the most part, like this seemed from the people and I'm wondering if maybe Trump is kind of this, this horrible thing we need to take action, you know?

'Cause the truth is, I don't think Bill Clinton was separating families at the border, but he was a pretty fucking shitty immigration person too. Like it wasn't a, it was not zero tolerance, but it was pretty bad. So this is something that has maybe evolved over times and it seems like enough people cared about it. And I'm glad for that at least. It wasn't like, eh, whatever, business as usual, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, during the John Adams presidency, the Alien and Sedition Act.

Right.

Yeah, which were I think past in 1798, '95 or something like that. I mean, that if you look at historical context was equally as cruel.

Right.

And they made it harder for people to become citizens.

Yeah.

They like the president in prison and deport non-citizens were deemed dangerous.

Who could just like write something bad about that?

Yeah, it was just bad press. That's all that meant back. Ailing people who gave the president bad press. I mean, literally. So yeah, as much as you, you know, we can praise the wisdom of the Catholic scholars. I mean, this is sort of the, this is a tradition. (laughing) It's got gone on in the American story for quite a long time. Of course, with the addition of slavery, we'll went into that. But, you know, let's not forget what, you know, the Statue of Liberty says, you know, we will take your-

Right.

Your sick, your bowling and your poor and all of that. And, you know, Ellis Island was, you know, it was a famous, you know, a really symbolic, you know, symbolic and powerful metaphor for how everything in America sort of came to be.

Right.

You know, sees of people in spite of all of this, you know. And in spite of all of our cruelty and superiority complexes that seem to be woven into law and legislature, in spite of all of this, and what's even going on today at the border, it still confuses me deeply, but you still have to take note of it is how many people still want to come to this country.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, wow, still.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, there are, how many children are being held in separate, I think it's--

2300, the last was the last count.

2300, so, I mean, how many families is that? I mean, my God, and it's, and so, and you can basically assume that this is all recent.

Yeah, six weeks, six weeks.

Six weeks, right.

Yeah.

So thousands of families still showing up at the border, you know, every single week.

Yeah.

They know what's happening here. They understand the risks, and they're still doing it. So, I mean, what does that say about, you know, the appeal of the American dream from an international point of view? I suppose it's still alive and well. I suppose that it's still, even with this clown as president, it's still a better place to live.

Well, and it seems like kind of a broader theme that emerges when you look at this country is that there is a shadow side to this country that is deeply, deeply, deeply embedded, literally from its genesis that I think, like I don't think I know that we individually and collectively have to deal with, like we have to, or we will continue. I don't think we're going down the darkest timeline possible, but we're definitely like bumping up against it enough at the time, like where it's like, what the fuck? I mean, I truthfully like, I know that these are issues that people who never thought about this stuff before are now thinking about it.

So, if this is what it takes, 2300, like, you know, unfortunate souls who are ripped from their families, which is, truthfully, it's just so hard to even think about and imagine. If that's what it takes for enough people to collectively wake up and be like, what the hell? I mean, I don't know, is he the great waker upper in like the most weird way possible? Like, I don't, it's hard, yeah.

That's what a lot of people were saying, you know, during the election.

Yeah, I mean, good.

Yeah, and it was hard for me to subscribe to that philosophy. Like a lot of people were, yeah, you know what, this is, we're gonna get the America we deserve. I mean, it's finally gonna wake people up. And, oof, I mean, it's a tough pill to swallow because the damage done is considerable.

Yeah, and real, yeah.

And real, you know. And to roll back the damage done, you know, could take a generation just from, you know, immigration policy through climate control policy. I mean, this is serious, serious, serious stuff. That's, which is why, for those of you listening, why I maintain and will maintain that Hillary Clinton would have been a better choice.

Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, I voted for her begrudgingly, but that's really terrible.

I mean, it's a terrible choice. I mean, it is terrible that we were faced with those two choices. I mean, no one can not argue that, but for the reasons we just went over, I mean, it's gonna take generations. I mean, this immigration stuff is just absolutely awful, but legislatively, it couldn't be turned off very, very quickly, the climate control stuff, the climate change stuff is more troubling from a long-term perspective for me because that stuff, it--

It's harder to reverse. It's like-- - Hard to reverse.

It's like when you take a loss, you know, in investing or trading, when you lose a percentage, the amount you have to gain to get back is way more than you lost. Like, you don't, it sounds like that's not right, but it is, you have to get way more just to get back. So yeah, I mean, it's not, I mean, the environmental stuff to me is, it's like, it seems like we have actually, this again, harkens back to your point, like we have so many real problems, like real, real, real fucking problems that like, what does this even accomplish except for just like rage? It feels like someone who had a bad day and is just lashing out at like, their significant other, you know?

Like, that's what it feels like. There's no rhyme or reason to it.

There's no immigration problem. What is the problem with immigration, exactly? They're not taking anybody's jobs.

Definitely not.

Very, very clear on that. They're not taking anybody's jobs. If you want to look at anybody or anything that is taking.

Yeah, machines.

Machines, automation has taken way more jobs from the American middle class and then you're factoring sector than immigration has. I mean, exponentially more. You know, Trump loves to cite those M-13 gang members who speak their own kill people. Okay, well, a few of those happen.

There's also school shootings by citizens in this country.

There's also school shootings by citizens which is way more problematic. And that's just saying like, it's such a basic example. Like saying, well, if you have a break failure from a Volvo that you're gonna recall every single Volvo from here until it turns to you. No, you fix the problem and just building a wall around our country and making this into creating an atmosphere of fear once again. Really just like, oh my God, leveraging the fear machine and making it so juicy and explosive is distracting us from real promise we need to address.

Do you think it's a reflection of the people like Jeff Sessions and Trump's mind state or do you think this is a calculated, I know they're buffoons but do you think this is also just like, you don't have to be very smart to recognize fear and power together can get you more power, more money, whatever it is, like that's why like, I don't ever check CBS News, CNN, but when this shit was going on, I'm checking CBS and CS, so being know that, they're not totally a piece of, I don't, you know, allegedly he kept mine comf next to his dresser and I think that's, he may have even validated that in an interview, but like, do you get the sense that this is just purely them just reacting day to day and implementing things that maybe were born out of irrationality or that this is also just kind of like a calculated taking stock of the media landscape and saying, hey, we got a chance here to really enrich ourselves and push our agenda for whatever the reasons might be that we're not privy to.

Yeah, I mean, everything has a political association to it. I mean, nothing is done, you know, without looking at the political difference in how it affects the midterm elections, how it affects your polling rate. I mean, that is sadly how every move in Washington is made these days, especially from the executive side. So, I mean, there's no doubt that that played into it here because the midterms are not looking good for the red wave. I mean, it's certainly, if voter turnout can be increased, which it looks like it's--

This helps, this fucking helps. This helps, you know, the North Korea thing. It didn't do much at all. I think it was generally understood and agreed upon that it was nothing more than a photo op.

Right.

He didn't accomplish any sort of lasting, you know, international piece of any meaning, you know? So, he's not gonna get the Nobel Peace Prize.

Oh, he's not, Zach?

Well, for a while, I mean, I did, I do have to say, I did think that he did sort of stand a chance. I mean, like, sitting down with an North Korean meter was a big deal.

It's a big deal, but when you come out of it with essentially nothing, yeah. And like, it was hard to see how he was gonna come out of it with something, you know, like that's, yeah.

Yeah, so, I agree, and that is a very, very sad, state of affairs that, you know, our election cycles now are, they're so short, they're so crammed together that there is no lasting window of, you know, of government.

Right.

For the sake of government.

Right.

That's kind of a bummer. I do, you know, and to get into solutions for that, I am of the opinion that, and this goes, you can apply this theory to many, many things that go on with, within the Constitution, gun control, for instance. It was written in a very, very different time. When somebody who was in the House of Representatives had to run for Congress every two years, back in 1785, two years, you know, campaigning and, you know, and canvassing, you know, your district was, it was a very, very different cycle. Now, you know, we have to rethink these things. We just do, I mean, two years is much too short of a cycle now.

It means that everybody is constantly campaigning.

Yeah, just turnover. It's just the factory of campaigning, yeah.

Yeah, you know, the average federal Senator or Congressman, you know, they spend one working day of their week inside of the phone, the phone banks doing phone raising. One day, one fifth of their time on the phone trying to raise money to stay like, that is just startling. So, I mean, we have to fix that. And, you know, and I also think the same, thinking, I also think the same thing. The same philosophy applies to gun control. There is no way in 1776 that they knew an AK-47 would be available at the quarter sporting goods store.

Right.

If they did the law, the second amendment would have been worded.

Absolutely. And there's no question about that. They could not see that far down the line.

And that's how they were back then. Like that's the thing, I mean, especially with Hamilton and Washington at the very least, centralized government was something they were quite fond of. They wanted to walk the line between, you know, being a monarchy and being oppressive. But like, this wasn't small government shit. Like, they're like, yo, we need to control these crazy fucking people. Because we just freed ourselves from an oppressive regime. Like, if we don't handle this shit and get the states on the same page and the citizenry, like, they're gonna be a problem here. And then we got, we have Native Americans, we have frontiers, there's a whole complicated situation to think that the Constitution and granted there are amendments, but to think that one as big as the right to bear arms is all encompassing.

Like, what if we just had a weapon that could just like kill people by pushing a button, not drones or anything? But like, yeah, I don't like Todd today. Boom. Like, you know, like that's an arm. Everyone should own that, really? Like, we're cool with that. And obviously there are restrictions. We don't let anyone own a tank. You know what I mean?

Yeah, that's great. There's a line somewhere.

Yeah. And it's obviously enforced too. Like so, yeah.

Yeah, if you took it at face value, if you took it, like, if you looked at the wording literally, it means, yeah, I could own a tank. I could own a nuclear weapon.

Yeah, why not?

Because I think the right to bear arms, it doesn't say what kind of arms, right?

It's just, I just, and I also, I try to be solution oriented. And I think the only, that's why I say, like, maybe he is the great awakener in some capacity, not to bestow any accolades on him for that, but it seems like he's pushing people to band together. Like, this is something that this conversation is something that comes up with every single one of my friends. Like, when I reached out to you last week, I obviously didn't have the intention of saying, oh, we're gonna talk about, you know, Trump and policy and all this stuff, but like, it became omnipresent for people's lives. And I think that's a good thing.

And I hope that, like, this chain, you know, I hope that continues to be a driving force because the alternative is, like, very, very dark. Like, very dark that I think people really need to be aware of, like, to individualize it, like, we're on the precipice of, like, just, like, deciding whether we wanna murder someone. Like, do we wanna, like, go down that when you wake up from the dream, where if, like, you've done something horrible and you're like, oh, thank God, I was just a dream. Like, we're pretty damn close to this not being a dream if we don't investigate that. It's, it's nuts, man.

It is nuts, man. I, too, I try, I do try to kind of stay solution oriented by staring through the looking glass at possible, you know, scenarios that can fix this in the future. And, you know, radical change is going to have to, you know, come to the, to the dinner table in the form of really looking at some of the basic principles that have, you know, governed and moderated this country for the last 250 years. And some of them are gonna have to be rethought. I mean, things evolve, everything evolves. You know, so why shouldn't that? Yeah, I just don't understand why anything has to, you know, stay cemented.

Yeah. It's, it becomes dogmatic, it becomes distant, it becomes something people can't relate to. I mean-- Why people don't vote? That's why, that's why, you know, in the last election, I mean, this is still my favorite stat that I harp on my podcast all the time. 90 million people who could have voted didn't, 90 million, that is such a huge number, you know, that you just, and I'm not calling my lovely girlfriend out or anything, but she's one. And she was a really interesting person for me to understand and, you know, I've talked to her about it and kind of, I don't think I, I mean, take credit for changing her mind, but I did get her to register to vote.

But getting a millennial 30 one years old, getting like inside of like her and her friends and her culture's head, it was like, wow. Yeah, it's so, man, I'm on the cusp, right? Like I used to be really into politics as like a young, or around the turn of the millennium, then I got totally disillusioned with Gore. I protested at the Supreme Court, you know, the whole decision there. Then just like tuned out, you know, just like, fuck this, like I don't care anymore. Then I did not vote in either Barack Obama's elections. I saw them as foregone conclusions, and both of them was like, I was in a democratic state and it was just like, I don't care enough to do this.

So I've been on that side and I definitely voted for Hillary Clinton in the last one just because I was like, and I voted for Bernie in the primaries. But I, you know, it's something that at this point, I think if we're able to show, and I think there's a few things here that like might be on the horizon that shift my generation and certainly the generation younger than me, might shift their attention like weed. I know you're out there in California. It's like, seems insane that over here, we're in draconian times, but when this really starts to get legalized in every state and big other liberal East Coast states, like that's gonna maybe open some eyes to people, you know?

Like that's gonna be like, listen, this got done because of the legislative branch of the government. Like, you know, as much as we love this and been smoking weed this entire time, like this got done through government. So maybe it is a real valuable thing that we can look at for change.

And, you know, I just like to remind anybody who's still so cynical to the point of convincing themselves not to vote is that the voting process is incremental. And in that, well, I mean, with Trump, we certainly took several steps back. But let's just, for the sake of argument, forget that. So if you're voting for the next us to say the president, the big one, you know, it's, you know, he or she might only be 5% better than Trump, but that's still 5%. So the person after that will be 10% better than that. So that's 15% into, you know, into presidential administration. So it's just, it's incremental fits and starts, you know?

Nothing is gonna become, you know, this utopian panacea of legal pot and pro-immigration and, you know, electric cars overnight. It's slow little fits and starts that just trudge the road through the mud day in and day out. And you just have to remember it, it takes a long, long, long time to implement all this stuff. I mean, you know.

Yeah, man, and that one I'm thinking.

Yeah.

That's got to vote. It's very practical. It's just like, hey, you know, we got to chip away at the problem here. We can't just run away from it. It's just slowly chipping away at the monstrosity.

And I think the reason younger generations have such a problem with that is it runs so counter to how we meet our lives these days. It is nothing is slow. You get free, if your internet takes a second to load, you lose your shit. You're like, what the fuck is this bullshit? Why can't this image load instantly? You know, for those of us who remember pre-internet and like, you know, 14, four modems. And you're like, please let this image load. Like, dude, I was an adolescent when the internet was coming on. So that's where I was getting my porn, like on FTPs and shit. Do you know how long it took me to download one picture of porn?

Over, oh, one picture.

Holy shit, dude, I was just like, what is it?

And like a video file took over night.

Oh, dude, I would wait overnight. I would wake up in the morning and I'd be like, oh, thank God, finally. It was like, so it just runs so counter to how we experience and consume everything now. And I think this is like this weird kind of like dream nebulous zone where like, we do have to start integrating in these aspects of patience and longer and broader perspectives because it's not that that's the only approach. It's that it's truly like another valid approach if we're in linear time. Like not to just seek instant gratification, not that someone's gonna give you an answer right away, whether it's a president or a guru or whatever, but that this is a process that we go through and kind of like acknowledging and being okay with that is incredibly important.

I mean, that's really good that you bring that up with Bode.

Yeah, I mean, that is a huge one. And the other one is sort of like an air or an atmosphere of self-obsession, which I'm not gonna generally just, you know, throw every millennial under the bus into that. But the other thing that, you know, another kind of tangible side effect of the technological revolution, especially through the lens of social media is sort of this air of self-obsession. It's like the constantly broadcasting of your life, my life, selfies and gotta post, gotta, you know, share my opinions. It's kind of just you really exacerbate the movie of me, you know, it's on steroids. And taking a step back of that in combination with the instant gratification thing that you speak of and just kind of stepping back and knowing like, hey, if you're at all spiritual as well, like, these are my brothers and sisters at the border here who are being separated from their families.

If you really, you know, you like to wear that all one t-shirt that you got at the Venice Boardwalk, but you're not voting, you know, where's your chance to make that t-shirt come to life, dude? Like really believe we're all one, your brothers and sisters are being separated from their family, some are even saying possibly for life.

Right, right, no, no. I think the latest thing I read, dude, was like, no, they're pretty much guaranteeing that hundreds of these kids like for life. Like they're guaranteeing it. Like there's no way they can keep track of them.

Yeah, I mean, so, so there you go. I mean, this is why you have to vote because, you know, not only that, but, you know, pretty much everybody is complicit in the problem. If you pay taxes, you're complicit.

We're paying for it.

You're paying for this. You're paying for those detention centers.

That's why you should never pay your taxes, people. (laughing) Don't, in case anyone is like, big joke. I totally pay all your taxes all the time. But no, it's true. I mean, like, you are complicit in it in a lot of ways, let alone it being a representation of what's going on. And I think that's important to me. And like, a lot of people will use the spiritual bypass in these things. And I still see it all over social media. I mean, I was, I'm still very heavily involved in cryptocurrency too. And I have a lot of information coming in at me. And like, the fact that this isn't like, you don't want to sidestep this shit with esotericism.

You know, as much as I would have loved to come on this podcast and dive deep into the mind and psyche and all these other things, like this shit is like, this is what's going on right now. Don't sidestep it with, you know, love and grace and all these things. That's part of it. That's absolutely part of it. You bring it into your life, but don't think of this as some distant, you know, this, oh, it's such a big problem. It can't be solved. Like we do have tangible solutions to some of these things. And voting isn't just some weird antiquated notion of like, and I've done a full 180 on this in about like four, five years time, just to be clear.

It sounds like you have.

I truthfully have, and I, you know, this is my second 180 on this. So I've been on both sides plenty of times, but I really do think it's just one of those things like, this is crystallizing. This is a very present issue that we can look at that is easy for someone to look at who considers themselves a compassionate person. This isn't like there's some weird Jordan Peter, Peter Sonian, you know, hip no trick on people where like, oh, well, yes, but he's good stuff. No, like this is evil. This is bad. We can all objectively say that. I hope people would say that about Jordan Peterson too, but there's no like skirting what's going on here.

It's a bad thing, and we have to really address it and look at it and yeah, man.

I'm not a Jordan Peterson fan.

I wouldn't think you would be my friend. Our mutual friend Jason Louv has the funniest and most like astute stuff on Facebook. I love it. I love his take on Peterson. It's the best.

He's the best, he really, he really gets into the takedowns and then he's like, I hung out with him recently.

I love him.

A good time talking about it. So wait, I'm just trying to think about that when you were telling me about your 180 on this. So what episode of the podcast is this?

I don't know that it was like there was an episode, but I'm sure.

No, I mean, what episode is are we recording right now?

Oh, this is Jesus. Oh man, a buck 39, buck 40, something like that.

120 of them.

30 nine, yes. So I was episode one, is that right?

Yeah, man, you were the first one.

We weren't talking about Donald Trump at episode one.

No, definitely I was 2015. Like there was no way we were.

There was no, that was not... (laughs) You know, like that was not a visible nightmare.

No.

Quickly, this turned around. Two and a half years ago. Like that's, I think the actual in linear time. That's how much has changed. And that should be also like, that's how quickly things can change. And you know, we're talking about being patient about the voting process, but like, hey, you can speed up the process of change, even if it's incremental, but it requires you to tune in, pay attention, and truly just take some type of action. Some positive action, even if that's talking to people, like that's important.

Yeah.

Oh, Zach, thank you for doing this, man. Oh, oh, oh, oh. You know what we didn't do episode one is by questions, 'cause they weren't invented yet. So let's do them now.

Okay.

What's your favorite color?

Well, I'm really into kind of grays, muted, kind of grays and stuff, but that's kind of a drab color.

That's okay. That's okay.

It's just kind of like what I wear. I wear kind of just grays and lights and blacks. But it gets purple.

Ooh, I like it. What is your favorite number?

Eight.

Why eight?

It just always has been, it just, I'm not exactly sure why, it just always has been for like the longest times, my passwords had like eight eights in them for years and years and years.

Until you changed them all and now there's no eight.

No eight, but now, you know, what then when I started getting more into Eastern mysticism and stuff, 108 kind of, and my birthday is the 18th and 108, and eight always being my favorite number. So it always, it just made sense.

I love it. What's your favorite animal?

Well, well, I like my cat an awful lot.

Cats are so great. I love cats.

I like that.

I really love cats.

Cat and horses.

Horses too, cool. I like horses too. My aunt has a horse farm up here, I get to see horses often. I rode when I was young, okay.

Yeah, me too. (laughs)

I did that, no, it's cool, man. Last question, what's a practical tip that you can share with people listening that's helped you in your life? Could be anything.

Meditate for 10 minutes a day. You're talking right to me. (laughs)

It's just 10 minutes a day. If you can start with that, and at the very beginning, if you have no meditation practice at all, it's pretending that you're meditating in that day. And it's kind of the art of sitting and doing nothing for 10 minutes when you, you know, ideally early in the morning, before work, ideally, if possible, and start there, and that, you know, at first, the sort of, you know, acting as if, just sitting there and doing nothing, and for 10 minutes with your eyes closed, maybe sitting in front of something that has a, you know, a higher vibrational meaning to it, if that's an altar or a picture or something like that, those 10 minutes turn into kind of a more potent 10 minutes, and then it extends into 15 minutes, and maybe even into 20, and just the act of intentionally creating stillness before you start your day, to me it's just been, for myself rush, yet to me it's been just the most practical and valuable little tidbit that really makes a difference.

Well, you know, I'm gonna take that to heart, 'cause I've been wrestling with starting up again for various reasons, and I think you might've just given me that little push, that was really, really well put. Remind some people who you've had as guests on your podcast recently, 'cause I've been astounded. Name some of the names just recently to refresh people about it's all happening in the Maps podcast.

Yeah, we had Deepak Chopra on, which is pretty cool, took two years to set up. (laughs)

That's all. And it was great, we did it in person, which is a lot of fun. We had Michael Pollan on, who is very famous for his writings on food and agriculture, but recently a book on psychedelics, which is really sweeping the nation.

Oh, yes.

So that's been good.

Yeah, man.

Lama's sultrum Elioni was on. That was, I think those are the three most recent guests, but yeah, I guess Deepak and Pollan were some pretty big names, especially in the literary world. I mean, I've read he's seen, I mean, from the self-serving and talking a little bit about self-obsession, the self-serving side, what it's done for possible other guests already.

Oh, I love it.

It's been huge.

I love it, man. Well, you started a little bit before me, and I'm glad you're still doing it. It's great, and dude, thanks for coming on again, and I would love to see you if I'm out in LA or you come to New York. Let's try to get together.

I'd love to. Thanks, no?

All right, man. All right, bye-bye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

Thank you for listening to that episode. Reminder, it's all happening. Maps podcast, go check 'em out at Zachwiry.com. Good dude, really good dude. Genuine guy loves Zach. That's really all I have to say about that. Big thanks to Patrick Nemczyk for continuing to be a wonderful producer-level credit Patreon supporter. If you wanna join Patreon, it's patreon.com/synchronicity. Got that. I am going to make a concerted effort. Listen, here's the deal. I gotta figure out a lot of shit that's going on in my life. I gotta figure out what career path I wanna take. We're getting this at the end of this episode.

I don't really know exactly what I wanna do right now. I'm trying to figure it out, and I'm sure other people are in this position. I'm sure there are people out there who have a myriad of talents, things they like to do. I'm trying to align my interests in something that I think will make a positive change in the world. That will most likely be something creative and artistic, but I think something community-based that we can do to make change, rather than just talking about this stuff, but taking some type of action, I'm slowly getting towards that. I'm feeling a calling there. So bear with me as I get my shit together.

I'm sure you know what that's like. That's it. I love you, and I will see you next week.