Cryptosynchronicity Part 2 with Stephen Hadeed Jr.

(upbeat music)

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity.

This is synchronicity. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

Welcome to crypto synchronicity, part two. This is another cryptocurrency episode. My new friend, Steven Hadid Jr. joins me on this episode. We talk about crypto. We talk about a lot of different things. Some of his background, he's a really cool guy, looking forward to getting to know him a lot better in the coming months. Stay tuned for a podcast that may be debuting on MindPod Network centered around cryptocurrency with, and I shit you not when I say this, some really big industry insiders. So speaking of cryptocurrency, I kinda wanna talk about something, this episode is a couple of days late, and usually I'm like, oh no, it's late, that's not good, I've dropped the ball, but I'm kinda happy this episode is a little late.

I'm gonna tell you why. Since the past two weeks, you've heard me talk about cryptocurrency, good time to get involved, be careful, don't invest stuff you can't afford to lose. Well, here's what happened in the past two days. The market has done what some people refer to as a correction, some people may call it a bubble burst thing. For those of us who've had Bitcoin for a long time, this is just part of the course, this is what happens. Now that there is a burgeoning and much more robust altcoin market, a lot of people are freaking out. Bitcoin has plummeted almost 30%, as I'm recording this, it went from a high of 19,000 about a week ago to, I think we're around like, in the 11,000s now.

I know people who've bought Bitcoin at the high and now have seen losing thousands of dollars, lots of money. So I wanna take this time to talk about the whole reason, I keep talking about cryptocurrency, and it's not so we can get stupidly rich and do whatever we want and fuck off, that's not what it's about. To me, it's pursuing the idea of financial liberty. And that doesn't mean we have the money to do whatever we want, it means that the anxiety brought on by money is reduced, if not eliminated. And that may seem idealistic and it may be idealistic, but the truth is that's why I'm involved with this, that's why I got involved with it back in 2013, and that's why I will continue to stay involved with it, regardless of where the market is.

So I bring this up because I know a lot of friends, a lot of family, this is a nervous time for them. The market has gone down significantly, this looks like maybe it could be the end of cryptocurrency in Bitcoin. I'm here to tell you that my prognostication and take this with a grain of salt, we're fine. Just hold, just relax, just take it easy. I'm not saying this because I know that that's what's gonna happen. I'm saying that because this has happened before. And more importantly, I believe in the technology and the people and the kind of cultural revolution that can take place when we have some type of technology like this emerge.

It'd be one thing if I came here this episode and was like, nope, nothing's wrong, everything is great. And I'm just not gonna talk about cryptocurrency anymore 'cause I don't care as much, that's not true. I really care about it, I really believe in this. I just wanna remind those of you who have maybe invested in senior money go down in the past week, just relax. My strong advice is this, and again, not a professional, I've only been day trading for like a month, a little over, but don't sell it a loss. Unless you're convinced that this is all over, this is tulip mania, this is a bubble and everyone got suckered in.

If you're convinced of that, you probably haven't done enough reading, but if you are convinced of that, of course, do what you think is right. But my advice is the only time you take a loss is when you sell for a loss. And I know that can sound trite and like a platitude, but in markets that are as volatile as cryptocurrency, that's just kind of a golden rule. The other piece of advice I wanna give to you if you've invested in the past few weeks since hearing it on this podcast is don't look at the dollar value of your investments. I know this is like the hardest thing to do. It took me three weeks to be able to do it.

You should be looking at the Satoshi value of your investments because that, if you've invested in good coins, will maintain pretty much on par with Bitcoin's drop. So if Bitcoin drops 30%, and your Satoshi value drops 30%, not the worst thing in the world, if Bitcoin drops 30% and your Satoshi value only drops 10% like some of the coins I have, that's not that either. The other thing I wanna point out is that if Bitcoin shoots all the way back up, which I expect it to, your altcoins may drop in value as well. And that's just the name of the game. So I've been talking to a few people who are like, what do I do in this situation?

Do I move it to Bitcoin? Do I move it to Ether? You know, you can do what you want. I personally like to have a little Bitcoin reserved for when the market shoots back up because then it's, you know, you can get some cheap coins. But just do what you think is right. Personally, I'm also taking this as a blessing in disguise. When the market's down, guess what I'm not doing? Looking at it every second of the day. So I could use the mental break. I could use the time to hang out with my son a little bit more. And when he sees me on the computer during the day making trades comes up and hit me, hopefully that won't happen again.

So the truth is, is I just wanna remind people in times of panic, in times of unrest, whether it's Donald Trump, whether it's cryptocurrency, try to find that place of equanimity within yourself. And I know there can be a lot harder if you're looking at a red balance sheet and you're freaking out and oh my God, I bought into this stupid idea. Why did I do it? Noah told me to do it. First, don't blame me. But if you need to blame someone, you can blame me. But I am optimistic as I am in almost all things and I don't think this is the time for panic. Okay, with that said, let's talk a little bit about Stephen.

So Stephen is a very cool guy. I hung out with him in the city a few days ago. We had a great time. We were talking crypto all day long. Just kind of talking about the cultural implications, what this means, and you'll hear in this episode, this is how you know Stephen's a good dude. I really try to get him to give investment advice. I think I asked, if you had $500, where would you invest that money? And he doesn't give the answer that a dumb person would give, which is put it here, like me. I just put it here, put it this. This is a good place to do it. You'll be fine. That's not usually the best advice.

What he says is this, and I think this is the best thing someone could say. You should focus on two aspects of what you're investing in. The first is the technology, and the projects, and the products that you potentially be investing in. The second is the community. The community of the people who have surrounded it. Are they intelligent? Are they wise? Are they striving? Are they idealistic? Are they ethical? All of those things can give you confidence to invest in things. And then that's why, truthfully, I'm not freaking out right now. I've put my money and my investment profits into things I believe in.

So even if this stays down for three months, four months, five months, I have confidence that when the technology emerges, it's going to be a much better place for everyone. So that's kind of where I am with all of this at this point. I think you're going to like Steven a lot. Stay tuned for a podcast coming out in the new year on MindPod Network with Steven, with someone else who I'm very happy to introduce you to in the coming weeks. Basically, just relax. Have a good time. I'm sure you can hear I am not freaked out. There's a lot of panic going on in the world today. We don't need more of that.

And I can assure you my calmness is not because I'm delusional. And it's not because I'm on a lot of drugs. I'm not actually right now. So that's it. I'm really looking forward to you hearing this episode. Thank you to everyone who supported this show by donating crypto donations on the website or always accepted. If you've made some money and would like to give back, I'm always okay with that. Patrick Nemcek gets the show out. I usually say it at the end of the episode, but big, massive thanks to him and every Patreon supporter. One of the unfortunate things that's happened as I've been sucked into this crypto vortex is I haven't been making as much music recording it at least.

I've been playing a crap load of guitar, but I haven't been recording a lot of music. So I'm looking forward to getting back to that and sharing some things. I know there was supposed to be an EP that was coming out. That got kind of screwed up when I was taking care of Eli every day. But the new year holds many exciting things. Stay tuned and you shall be rewarded. All right, that's it. Let's get to the episode. Without further ado, here is Steven Hadid Jr. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

All right. We're recording. Welcome to Synchronicity, man. This is the first time we've met in person where we've been talking for a while.

Yeah. - Yeah.

We've had a fun past few hours. We, I'm referring to it as the crypto vortex. I think you've been sucked in far earlier than me. Give, (laughs) I know this podcast is gonna be so much about cryptocurrency that I wanna at least at the beginning attempt to talk about something more about you so people can get a sense because even in the past few hours, I found out that you voice a character in Hearthstone, which is insane.

World of Warcraft.

No, and it must be Hearthstone too though. It's the same guy though. It's the same--

Well, if the audio are carried over, then yeah.

It probably did. So in World of Warcraft, and there's also the character, it's Attesh, right? Attesh. - Attesh, Attesh.

Oh, it's Attesh. - Attesh.

Okay, I think I'm thinking of someone else. Maybe it's a different character.

Oh, regardless.

Hall of Origins, that's all I remember. He's in the Hall of Origins, and I'm a bad guy.

Okay, so my point is this. Let's try to tackle a little bit of a background of who you are. We know each other through my sister and through our mutual friend, Zach Mack, who's been on the show.

Oh, excellent. - He's always on an episode, and this recording, this very situation, this very same spot. Who are you, man?

Steven Hadid, Jr. I'm an actor. You know, that's kind of what I'm, primarily what I'm doing up here in New York.

Yes.

But, you know, born and raised in Trinidad and Tobago. And yeah, I kind of got excited about cryptocurrencies. Back in like 2012, 2013, very, very good friend, Gabriel Abed, who is, you know, he's out of Barbados, and he's the one of the co-founders of Bit. And he's telling me about this blockchain and Bitcoin and all, you know, it was kind of very new and fresh, and I hadn't heard about it at all. And I thought, you know what? I remember talking to somebody about it, and I said, you know what? I just don't wanna, I just wanna get left behind. And I started to kind of research it, and I thought, okay, well, this is actually, I can see usefulness and benefit.

And I was like, all right, well, let me kind of get involved. And I did.

And this was in 2013.

2013. I started mining Litecoins.

Mining Litecoins, which now, I think at the date, this will be released, are still over $300 Litecoin, which is insane, like talk, how much did a Litecoin cost when you started mining?

It was under a dollar, it was under a dollar. And the interesting thing is that, I mean, back then, I was such a novice, I kind of still regard myself as a novice.

Totally, yeah, and I do.

I, but I didn't really understand what was going on. And I think that it took a long, long time for me to kind of absorb the, not just the mining, but the whole movement of cryptocurrencies.

When do you think that clicked for you fully?

Probably at the end of 2016. I think that it took a long, long time. I think that they had a lot of ups and downs that I think were necessary.

Totally.

You know, I think it was 2015 when it kind of plummeted and did its thing. But at the end of 2016, you know, it kind of came back up in conversation. And then it kind of just has exploded since.

So there's a lot of different ways to look at this. Obviously, I think what attracts people to cryptocurrency at least right now is the financial benefit that can be reaped not only with something like Bitcoin and some of the other major ones like Litecoin and Ethereum, but some of these altcoins. That is something that's appealing to people that I can put my money in something. And then in, you know, two weeks or two years, it's going to be worth significantly more. Outpacing like a savings account or whatever. That's in a one very appealing aspect of it. But something we've been talking about today, but I think is equally, if not more interesting, probably more interesting, is that it's shifting the way our world works.

You know, we're joking about being able to use Bitcoin to pay when we go out to a restaurant. We still have to use cash and cards and antiquated. But in reality, another thing it's doing, and this is what's attracted to me, attracted it to me probably as much as anything recently, is that anyone potentially has the ability to liberate themselves from some of the pressures that people feel. And this isn't to say, it's just like, hey, put your money in this, you're guaranteed to go up. And I don't want this to be construed as financial advice. But the facts remain, you know a lot of people, I know a lot of people who have made more money doing this in the past year, two years, however long, then some people will work their entire lives.

Good people, you know, like great people who worked really hard but didn't really get, you know, a fair shake of what, you know, which is the basic level of happiness in the world. And that seems to be shifting. What's your take scene? You were into this, like you said, the end of 2016, that's a long time in today's world. You know, every day is like an insane adventure.

Yeah, we joke, we joke about four hours being, you know, like where you can see a, you know, a 25% correction and then a recovery in less than four hours.

It can be four minutes, depending on the thing. It throws the state of what the function of money has been in our world on its head in a tangible way that I think is hard. You know what it's like, this is the analogy I would give. You know, like social media just was like a thing all of a sudden, and I was in Boston when Facebook started, like so I had it before most of the country, the world. And you know, that wasn't like, it wasn't really a thing yet. But then all of a sudden, we were just on Facebook or on Instagram or on Snapchat, whatever.

And you saw the Facebook logos on everything.

And everything here, connect with Facebook, whatever it is, and that just became a thing. We didn't have time to process what that meant as a culture and as individuals into that kind of like paradigm shift. We just woke up and all of a sudden, Donald Trump is on all of our social media. All of a sudden, and that's our new reality. Those are things that we tend to react to. What seems different about the cryptocurrency thing, which is certainly everywhere now, you know, people are finding out about it everywhere, is we're involved in this process. It's not like we're looking at it from afar saying, "Hey, how do I get involved?"

Like anyone listening now, I know, because a lot of people have emailed from listening to the show, they're getting involved. They're figuring this out. They're not doing this to get rich quickness. I mean, that might be a motivation, but they're learning how this stuff works when they're principled.

Well, I think just because your question was, you know, what is my take on this thing?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, as, you know, because a lot of people have made a lot of money, I think that it is just not getting involved. I think that if you get involved in space, and you're kind of in it for the right reasons being, you know, to be part of the ecosystem, to be part of the movement, as I said earlier, and to try and, you know, build it from that organic grassroots perspective.

Yeah, it's--

And so therefore, if something is, if something, if the pie is small and people get on board in nurturing this pie and that pie grows, the people that were there before, you know, will reap a couple more benefits than the people that were, that would got in a little later. I mean, it's kind of--

And so this, and so people hearing this may think that sounds like a pyramid scheme or a Ponzi scheme. And in theory, that's exactly how a pyramid or Ponzi scheme works.

Yes.

I ran into an interesting discussion. We'll call it discussion. It was a disagreement online with someone I didn't know, who was basically making the point that whatever money you're making in cryptocurrency is someone else's money who's ported in from their fiat currency, which I obviously didn't argue with. But I said, that's how all money works. Like when you take someone's money, or someone pays you for doing a job, that's the same thing going on. The only thing that's different is you're ascribing the value of you working at that place at a different level of what that person has said. A lot of people don't like that because we like to just naturally assume that the world and culture we live in makes sense, and that there's a reason that dollars are worth what they're worth, and there's not some just (laughs)

on this or a specific person that's kind of screwing people too, that exists. When you're talking about an ecosystem.

Yep, I think that there's the element of utility.

Yes, yes.

That a lot of these very ambitious companies that have done crazy amount of work to build the platforms and systems and that can use the blockchain to its full potential, if you will. And I think that it's once that utility factor becomes more and more tangible. And there's more, not just adoptability, but that potential for use.

Useability.

Once that's there, I think that it's the tokens, the coins, they reap their value from, I think, well, not just obviously from speculation as well, but they reap their value from their usability.

The utilitarian purpose, which I know can all sound kind of vague and nebulous if you don't even know what the fuck we're talking about. Let's back it up so we can go from the beginner to an intermediate to kind of the in-between stage where we kind of think we know what we're doing, but we don't get it too cocky. It's been working, but yeah.

Yeah, I'm still very, I'm still very new.

No, I know, and I'm incredibly new. This is essentially a whole new venture for me in terms of actively trading these things. Let's talk about, let's say there's someone listening to this and they're like, okay, I've heard now for the past three or four episodes, you know, talk incessantly about cryptocurrency 'cause I have, and my guests too have also, I've forced them to talk about it too. And they're like, okay, I've heard you talk about Bitcoin, I've heard you talk about Ethereum, I've heard you talk about Litecoin. Then I think I've mentioned it last time, like Ayota and stuff like that. Let's say someone right now has money that they can afford to lose.

So we're talking about money that if someone stole it from them right now and you didn't have it in five minutes, you'd be upset, but it wouldn't be like a life-changing thing. Let's say they wanted to get involved today. And again, this is not advice from us, but I do wanna have kind of a roadmap because I personally, and I've told you this, I've onboarded eight, five to 10, eight people. I don't even know, I've lost count of my friends and family over the past few weeks. And having told them what to do specifically, but I gave them kind of the principles of what's going on, what would you say if someone, let's say, had $500 right now and they're living in a place where they can convert their currency into some type of crypto.

What do you think the best strategy is for me?

I think the best thing to do would be to invest some of that time into, I guess, a couple there. I mean, there are thousands of videos by now, I'm sure.

There's more than that. - On YouTube and whatnot. But definitely go and see what it's about because it is what they're trying to disrupt and by they, I mean, people, the people developing for these various blockchain companies and technologies. I mean, it really is something that can free up a lot of people. It can deal with de-risking all over the world and the unbanked people that don't have access or don't have the... - Ease of use. They live far away from a thing. - Or the infrastructure or the resources to be able to use that traditional, what we would call traditional type of economics.

Yeah. - And I think that those solutions just, they come in one after the other, the people that are looking at the real estate industry and how can we streamline the real estate industry? The music and art industry. - Yes.

Music and royalties. - Absolutely.

And put the royalties on the blockchain so that everything is exactly what it's supposed to be without-- - And you can see it.

You can see it without anybody interfering, without any central control. And I think once again, just to go back to put on that that use factor of what these things do, but do the research and see what excites you.

Exactly.

I mean, there's so many companies doing so many great things. Go and see what excites you, say. You know, there's so many to even name, to even try to name them, but go and see what excites you because there are a lot of companies doing a lot of great things. And I've been fortunate to kind of meet some of them in conferences. - Yeah.

There are conferences and gatherings and talks popping up all over the world. See what's in your, I'm sure that in your city, there's probably somebody where putting something on.

You mentioned, thank you for saying that too, because what I just tried to delicately pull out of you is telling people where to put their money, which, you know, we're happy to speculate, but I think you said the most important things, which are the key principles is doing your research and understanding why you're gonna put money into something should be a prerequisite when you do anything. I can also say the only times I've ever really lost money during trading over the past month is when I buy something that I don't really know what I'm buying, something happens to it that I don't really know why it's happening and I sell it.

That's how I've lost money. So research is a really big part of this and understanding why you're doing this. And some of the core principles that you mentioned, decentralization, providing support systems and economic systems for places they wouldn't other exist are really key principles of what cryptocurrency can offer. The other thing you said, which is equally important, and this is something that extends far outside of the realm of cryptocurrency is community. That's how I told you. I mean, we were talking about, you know, kind of how I've been doing this the past month and a lot of it is community based.

I go in and try to see digitally at least now, but of course meeting in person is a great way to get a gauge on someone. You really get a sense of why people are doing this. The other very interesting thing I point out with this stuff is a lot of people who have these cryptocurrencies, especially in mass, and now that they're actually worth something in dollars or whatever you're trading them into, money doesn't become this goal, this end-all be-all that is gonna be the panacea that fixes your life, because at a certain point you have it and you've hit those things and you have to start thinking about what else is going on in my life?

What other issues do I need to deal with? And to me, that's gonna be a very interesting place and obviously there are people who have hit that without cryptocurrency. There are billionaires, there are millionaires who, you know, face those issues in daily life. I had someone on this show, Gerard Powell, who sold, it was a real estate listing company, sold it for $94 million, was suicidal. Most miserable he had ever been, you know, the hookers, women and below and everything, was basically on the verge of killing himself and then went down to Puerto Rico, did ayahuasca, completely changed his life.

Opened a retreat center, which, Rythmia, which is an amazing place, Jen, who might be coming over later, Jen Soudini was recently on this podcast, has been there, I have multiple friends who've been there and you know, he's the happiest he's ever been. So there are different dynamics that emerge in life. I don't wanna, one of the things I'm consistently checking in myself with all of this, 'cause money is involved, is what is the function of money in our lives? What hold does it have over us? What does it allow us to do? What does it prevent us from doing? To me, what I'm kind of centering on at least in my personal life is, I feel if I get to the point where I don't have to worry about money, seriously, like don't have to worry about it, that's just an opportunity to pursue creative pursuits.

You were mentioning being a director, an actor, like I would love to talk about that stuff too, because to me, this is what this serves in our lives. It's not just I'm a billionaire, I can buy the dolphins or whoever, whatever, you know, crazy lambos and whatever people are talking about, it really is what does this open up in our lives? And then the other kind of cool thing about this is sometimes, not all the time, 'cause if you're hustling and working two jobs, you don't have the time to do some things you want to do, but can you do some of those things already? Is money actually the barrier for preventing you from doing the things you want?

I think these are liberating concepts that are provided through the lens of cryptocurrency, which is just nuts. This is a fucking crazy man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Somewhere there's a question in there, it's just insane.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, you know, I've kind of been somebody who's always done a million different things at the same time. For the last six years, I was working an operations manager position out of retail chain running a warehouse.

Yeah, not really.

Lifting up boxes all day. But I was also doing, you know, everything else. So, I mean, just for me, it's always just kind of what excites me. And I'm always asking what's next, what's next? I don't have an uncle that always talks about, you know, the true entrepreneur, which I've never really called myself.

Right, right.

But I guess there's some things, yeah, that's the way it's just always asking what's next.

You don't strike me. And this is a quality I've seen in a lot of people who are really interested in cryptocurrency too. Do you get bored? Do you get bored just in general? Do you find yourself bored?

Not really.

Right, people do. I don't either. I, it is almost, it's such a rare occurrence that I'm like, oh my God, I'm bored. Like, that's how rare it is. Yeah, it doesn't really happen for me either.

No, I could like, that sometimes I've just, I'm by myself all day.

Yeah, man, I mean, the truth is--

And I just, yeah, and I'm just fine.

I'm just looking at this because I have a hot mic. That's all, you're good. I'm doing the line out, don't worry about it. Dude, I also noticed that a lot of people getting into cryptocurrency just don't actively have that thing. It's a curiosity, you're referring to it as excitement, but that seems to be something that is kind of driving what we're seeing in this industry. So let me, let me ask you this, before 2013, what were kind of like some of the things you were doing? Like, what were you interested in?

Before that, I guess I was, I was, I was in New York before that.

Okay, so you've come full circle?

I was, yeah, and I'm back now. And I was in New York before that, and I was pursuing the acting thing, auditioning 10, 15 times a week.

Oh, was that a fun thing to do?

It is, I enjoyed auditioning. I enjoyed auditioning because I think that, I mean, not getting the part didn't really bother me.

Right, that's right.

So, you know, I got a couple of parts here and there, but yeah, I was just pursuing not working at a bar, doing the, you know, working as a host or a bus boy.

And we, were you living downtown then too?

I was living, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, man. Okay, so let me ask you this, at what point, how old are you, by the way?

33.

You're like, I'm 30, I'm gonna be 35.

33, yeah.

You grew up in Trinidad.

Yeah.

When did you move, did you move from Trinidad to New York?

I moved, no, I went to college at Montreal.

Where in Montreal? - McGill.

Is that where you met Zach?

That's where I met Zach.

Okay, all right, the pieces are coming together now. So you met Zach at McKitt, what did you go to McGill?

15 years ago.

I know, dude, don't even tell me. It gets, it gets sadder and sadder and it's time to go. So on, you'll be like 20 years, what the fuck? What did you go to McGill for?

Um, anatomy and cell biology, my pre-med stuff. Yeah, I was going, I was going to high school.

I'm so glad. I asked the question.

Yeah, and then I stopped doing the med school pursuits to do the acting pursuits. I mean, I've been an actor since I was 14. So that's kind of always kind of what I've got.

You're a constant, that's your creative.

And, and yeah, my parents were thrilled.

Yeah, I'm sorry, you were pre-med. How far did you get in?

Like just a few years in.

You say just a few years, like pretty fucking, I know it's not like eight years, but like it's still, that's a lot. - Just a few years.

Oh my God, were you into it?

Yeah, I loved it. I was, I was, I was basically cutting up dead bodies.

I was going to say that's the part that freaks me out by far the most of all of the medical stuff. The idea of helping people or like being a doctor, I think is cool.

But the learning part, I mean, it's, it was very interesting, especially if you like that kind of stuff. I mean, not that I necessarily liked it, but I was good at it. So I just, you know, I enjoyed that aspect that I was good at it. So I just started.

Just cutting up dead bodies for it?

And no, just kind of understanding the old thing. And you know, you'd walk in a class and to go and study and you'd have to go into a, but bucket of hearts or like livers or kidneys.

So you really delved into the physical sciences. What are you, if you have any metaphysical beliefs? Any? God, yay, nay?

I mean, I think that it's always a difficult one.

I mean, you don't have to, you're not gonna be held down for like, I would.

No, no, no, it's not that, it's not that. I just, I think that everybody, you know, should just chill out.

That's a good maximum.

I think that everybody can, can do their own thing. And we can all be chill. We just, everybody just needs to be chill. So that's my, that's my, that's my big message. Just everybody chill out. I'm now gonna completely acknowledge that you said that. But your personal beliefs, when you, when shit gets crazy in your life, or prayers being whipped out, is there some feeling that there's a universal?

Yeah, no, I mean, I think that there may be, you know, some sort of universal being of sorts. I was raised, I was raised Roman Catholic.

Okay.

And, and you know, I've, I've, I've definitely leaned on that in times. I can't, you know, I can't deny that. But I still think that there is, there is bigger things than just, you know.

Religion.

The different factions and the different religions and the different, this and that.

What do you think those things may be?

This is pure speculation.

Yeah, what, yeah.

I just, you know, just the, the environment. The fact that we're making the, the earth, you know, as unlivable as, you know, as, as we can, as fast as we can.

Yeah.

And, like that, for instance. And so when I speak of our religion, I kind of, and when I speak of that, it's, you know, everyone needs to chill. I obviously speak to the, to the, you know, the hate or the,

The contentiousness that can arise from death.

All the animosities that, that, and all the, the rivalries on this and that. So I speak against those things, just because it's, it's just so unnecessary.

It is, and I think the more kind of spiritual quote unquote, someone gets the more they kind of realize that the divisiveness there isn't really productive in any way, shape, or form, and any religion you find if you dig down. No one's saying, okay, fight with people. Be hateful and horrible.

But still, believe what you want to believe. I really have no problem with that. But, you know, I, I think that that, I think that it's, it's, it's something really nice that to, to have that, to lean on and, and do that. But I think that there is a lot of chilling out that needs to be heard.

Yeah, and I think that's, that's something that I think generally most people would agree about. And I think when religion does kind of serve, or not serve, but doesn't do service in your life where it makes you dislike things and hate people, it's not a helpful thing. The reason I bring up what are your metaphysical beliefs is, I've espoused this one plenty of times on this podcast. I personally believe through some comparative analysis, but really more intention, intuition rather than anything else that the world we live in and perceive as this reality is far less concrete and substantial than we perceive it.

And we know this is backed up by various just physical physiological perceptions. Like our eyes actually flip everything. Everything we're perceiving is actually upside down. We know that our neurons and our brain process and filter a tremendous amount of information out, otherwise we'd be fucking miserable and upset all the time. And we also know that we live in two physical worlds, at least in terms of how things work at the same time simultaneously, right? We have the Newtonian physics world where we have like gravity and you know, I jump off a building, I fall, you know, there's a speed of light theoretically.

And we also have the quantum world where things work completely differently. Things one one thousandth of an inch or smaller, the plank plank, don't work at all like how things work up on our level. Things can happen simultaneously. Things on opposite ends of the earth for that matter could have a direct impact on each other at the same time, which is theoretically impossible, depending on your observation of something it chains, whether it's a wave or a particle. So anyway, my point is this is, I think we're essentially living in a much more nebulous dream-like situation than we would like to believe.

It's kind of a scary thought, but also one that is a liberating thing. And I reason I bring it up relative to the cryptocurrency and kind of your life and your beliefs is I think this is in manifestation or an emanation of something that is happening. I see this kind of merging together where the dominant cultural force in our lives is money. And by proxy and what is gained by money is power, right? That's the direct relationship there. Most people aren't going to argue if that's how the world goes round. If you start to subvert that and talk about those kind of utilitarian cases that some of these cryptocurrencies can do, what starts to happen to our world?

That's kind of like, what do you see kind of this shift, this movement as you put it? What do you see a kind of, what are the cracks in the current foundation that may emerge? I'm sure you've thought about this a little bit.

I mean, sometimes when I think, when I get exposed to a new ICO or a new emerging blockchain company, sometimes when I'm hearing what they're trying to solve or slash disrupt.

Yes.

You know, sometimes I'll think of myself, well, you know, they're going to have issues, you know, whether it's jurisdiction issues, cross jurisdiction issues. And so it's kind of, I think it's on a case-by-case basis 'cause there's a lot of disruption on a lot of solutions being thrown out, thrown all around the place. And it's, I think it's fantastic. It's a great time to kind of get in because like I said before you can find projects that excite you and you can kind of do your research and say, oh, this is something that I could get behind a systematic change to the traditional in this way and you can literally get involved in that movement, in that specific way.

Which is very different than how stocks or other issued bonds or anything else would work because they're you're buying into something, you're not directly a part of it.

Well, yeah, the reason why, because it's a security and you're owning like an equity. Whereas-

Explain what an ICO is for people too.

Well, an ICO is an initial or internet coin offering.

Yes, yes.

And it's where, you know, a blockchain company will issue these tokens for I guess an X price of Ethereum or Bitcoin, which is how normally the contribution is given.

Right.

And these tokens will then have some sort of utility on a platform that can do, I mean, like I said, a varying of different functions.

Oh, yeah, which sounds-

I'm trying to make it as simple as an interest for this one.

It is about as simple as it's gonna get. An example, I'm trying to think of one that has like a very clear utilitarian. Okay, here's one that I'm not invested in, but listeners of the show will appreciate. There's something called potcoin, right? And what potcoin aims to do is essentially be a store of value in an exchange system for people who grow weed, cannabis, ideally in places where it's legal, where banks won't touch weed money in a lot of states. They're not, they can't, the government could go after them, theoretically, the federal government. So they can't store these coins.

Which is de-risking.

Which is de-risking, right? That's what we're talking about when you're saying de-risking. You're saying, hey, well, how do we do this? The problem is with, say, putting your money in another cryptocurrency like Bitcoin is, let's say something, buy something for like $5,000, you throw it in Bitcoin, it goes down 50%. That's not really a healthy exchange. So potcoin aims to be this kind of currency that mitigates some of this issue. Some of these issues that exist. So that's one of them. It's not something I own. It's not something that I think is particularly effective as long as I'm talking about it, but it aims to serve some type of purpose.

Some of them, as you mentioned, serve a variety of other aims, like the unbanked people. This is a huge problem with war. The majority, there are places with huge populations who cannot get access to money as we know it. Like that's-

There have been entire economies that are based on mobile digital transactions.

Yeah.

Because there's no banks.

This is something I wanna talk about, because I think something that happens if you've already invested in cryptocurrency, the question can come up, because you get a lot of this in the mainstream media. Is it a bubble, is this two-up mania? Is it gonna crash? And one of the questions is, this really gonna just have no value at some point. But then when you start to see that this is actually already, some of these cryptocurrencies are helping people do things that they couldn't already do, that kinda changes the way you're not, it changes the confidence level you should have that this isn't just some fad.

And I think that's something that, if you're looking to enter this, you're probably still concerned that this maybe is nothing, and that this is all just hype, and maybe it's penny stocks from the 80s. That's what people who don't wanna enter are here who are around back then. This is just penny stocks. But when you really, a lot of these things we're mentioning have white papers, extensive, long, detailed explanations about specifically what they're trying to achieve. I mean, I guess the best analogy I could give is like, before the internet, if someone tried to explain to you what the internet was, do you feel like, what are you talking about?

And I don't really see how that's possible. And all I think all we're saying is, this is a real thing. It's probably worth a little bit of your time to research to see if you're interested. And then once you're interested, I think the ability to see how this kind of shifts everything.

I mean, I've heard people refer to it as like .com 2.0.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, which scares people too, 'cause there was a bust, you know?

No, there was, but I mean--

The internet is still around.

And a bunch of those companies are still around. So I mean, I'm not trying to compare it to that, but I'm just, it's just, I think that there are a lot of people that are developing a lot of products and platforms that I think are going to be significant in the future to how we do things on an everyday basis. I hear about projects almost every day.

I know you do, you--

'Cause it's just really just about like find, find, you know, telegram groups or--

Discords or whatever--

Or discords or WhatsApp. So I mean, they're all over the place now. Slacks, a lot of, there's a lot of, a lot of these cryptocurrencies have a lot of slacks. You can learn things in no time.

All right, I want to get into one area specifically of cryptocurrency and be as candid as you can be or feel like being. Can we talk about Bitcoin Cash for a second?

Sure, I wish I had more knowledge.

You don't have to have a lot of knowledge 'cause I'm going to go out on a limb and say what my views are.

All right, all right, all right.

I already posted them all over the internet in case, and I never post shit on Facebook.

I may have read your own.

Yeah, because I've been, and just to be clear in case anyone doubts that, I don't know if this bolsters my credibility or hurts it, but I made money on Bitcoin Cash today. So I don't think that it has no practical, I guess, or actual trading value. I am just horrified that people think that this is actually a thing, and the reason I'm talking about it now is because this is, to me, the scariest thing about something like Bitcoin Cash is the elements of the traditional banking and Wall Street and kind of system that's rigged for lack of a better word, are some of the elements that are slowly, potentially, allegedly being introduced with Bitcoin Cash.

One of the key tenants of Bitcoin, and there are arguments to be made that Bitcoin could theoretically be centralized at a certain point, giving a certain amount of mining power. You could do it. But theoretically, that it's a decentralized economy, and a lot of other tokens and coins have come along that are truly decentralized in every sense of the word. Bitcoin Cash is a fork. So what a fork is, for people who don't know, Bitcoin was a thing, and at a certain block, and we've been talking about the blockchain, at a certain block number, a new currency emerged that had a change in it. And the change we're talking about is that it had a larger blockchain size that theoretically would allow for quicker transactions 'cause it wouldn't get cheaper fees, right?

Okay, so that is the theoretical use case of something like Bitcoin Cash. Now, people like me who owned Bitcoin for a long time got this for free. If I owned Bitcoin before the fork in August, I had it already. So I had this stuff, but I really didn't know what to make of it. Now, there are various characters, and I want to go and hold backstory of Bitcoin Cash, but what it seems to me is happening now, and I've come to this conclusion from personal experience, research, talking to other people. It seems to me like this market is essentially rigged and being manipulated. We don't know how deep this goes.

Coinbase theoretically could be involved based on something that happened. I did read, yeah, I read a bunch. I mean, I think we're gonna hear a lot about it, 'cause I think that things are gonna be, it's almost gonna be, because the space is so new, there's a lot of precedent that needs to be set. Agreed. And I think that there's gonna be a lot of people looking for that. Agreed, and I think one of the things that scares people about cryptocurrency is a lot of this stuff isn't regulated. I mean, will I say a lot of it? Mm, none of it. Outside of having to pay taxes if you pull it out into fiat.

That's pretty much it. I think we can expect that to change how efficient and possible that is. We'll see is to be determined, but the reason I bring it up with Bitcoin Cash is one of the reasons I bought Bitcoin back in the day was because of this idea that you were buying into potentially a system that wouldn't be rigged. It was peer to peer. It was held up not by a small kind of oligarchy of people. And truthfully, I'm quite concerned that a lot of people are going on to something like Coinbase, and I don't think it's opened yet. They announced it was open and immediately shut down for various reasons, are gonna go on, see something that's priced lower than Bitcoin, think it's potentially Bitcoin, or even worse, think it's just something that's better 'cause it's cheaper right then, buy it, pump up a currency that essentially is gonna be dumped by the people who actually own the majority of this.

And I think that's, I think that is what's up.

I agree, I'm just saying allegedly 'cause we don't have facts.

No, no, no, no, no, I know, but minus the, I'm not talking about the dumping, I mean, that's a lot of part of what you said.

Oh, right, right, right.

I moment people coming in.

'Cause people because I've had a lot of conversations where I would introduce people, they'd say, all right, how do I get involved? I'd say, all right, well, we're in the US, so download Coinbase.

Yeah, exactly.

Download, go to Coinbase, or Coinbase on your desktop or the app or whatever the case may be. And people open it. And the first thing they really see is the three prices of the three tokens, well now four tokens, but the three tokens that are available, Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin. And people instantly say, okay, well, Litecoin and Ethereum are cheaper, so I guess I'll just start there.

Yes.

And I think that to some degree that will happen with Bitcoin cash as well.

I mean, I think what everyone in the crypto world has kind of been closely watching is what coins Coinbase plans to add in 2018. And they first said, there's also a lot of shady stuff. They said they were gonna announce it in January 1. They said they weren't ever gonna add support for it, but even before that. And now all of a sudden their exchange goes through something where they show it's valuing $9,500 on an exchange. Meanwhile, everywhere else it's 3,200, and that pumps the prices. And a lot of weird things start to happen. To me, the reason I bring it up isn't to say that you should or shouldn't get it.

It's that those are elements that I think are important to avoid in this space because you then don't have that kind of democratized ability. And various coins do this in different levels, but that ability to kind of be like, I like this, this excites me. I believe in this. If I put my money here, I'm buying into this company and my value of start, whatever you want to refer to it, is goes up. That to me is like a really cool thing that I don't want to be kind of, see that fucked up because people want to make a lot of money. And they think this is a space where they can take other people's.

You know, I've kind of been, I've said, I've kind of like this saying that I've kind of brought up ever so often throughout my life.

Yeah.

And I realize that whenever money gets involved, integrity.

Yeah, man.

Always gets wavy.

Super wavy.

Sports, when sports betting became a thing. And I always have those, I kind of have those conversations 'cause that's kind of what, you know, what happens.

Yeah.

And I think that, you know, to some degree, I mean, cryptocurrencies not as, it's not, you know, sports betting, but I think to some degree, I think people do look at it in that way. And they're people that have the power to move things.

Yeah, I mean, 'cause we're talking about people who have accumulated a lot of this stuff when it wasn't very valuable. And now that gives them a lot of power to do things. I'd be remiss if I didn't bring it out because it's something that I've been talking with a lot of people about. And I think as more people listen to podcasts like this and other ones that are specifically geared to cryptocurrency and they don't just inevitably be, you know, end up being about it, they are gonna get involved in see Bitcoin cash. And I do think it's gonna move the market. You know, I just think fundamentally if you do your research on that as well, you might come to some other conclusions of the people who are behind it, maybe don't have the noblis of intentions, not that you have to buy into something that has only the noblis of intentions.

I like coins like that, but there may be something that just serves like a thing that's gonna help the environment a little bit better, or logistically by proxy of, you know, increasing efficiency with shipping things, it helps the environment. There might be little things in between that are still in the world of commerce that aren't like this perfect thing, but I think it's also best to kind of try to avoid the people and things that are like really shitty in the world and don't let those seep into it.

Yeah.

All right, so here's what we're gonna do. I asked three questions at the end and then one larger question, they're quick. What is your favorite color?

My favorite color is red.

What is your favorite number?

Two.

What's your favorite animal?

I mean, I wanna say a dog because I love my dogs, but like animals, like just all the animals, probably like a lion.

Okay, cool. When's your birthday?

August 2nd.

Okay, Leo.

Yeah.

That's what I asked. And last question, what's a practical tip that's helped you in your life that you could share with people listening?

Never stop learning. That's, it's, you know, I, if whatever excites you, you know, I, a couple of years ago, I wanna do a, I just randomly just thought to myself, you know, my grandmother used to bake bread and she still does to this day. And she's a baked bread and I used to be, you know, running around the kitchen eating fresh bread.

Yeah.

And I thought to myself, I wanna learn to make bread. So I called her up and I said, you know, I wanna learn to make bread. She said, okay, come, I'll teach you. So I went and I learned to make bread that day and I was like, okay, I can make bread. I was like, you know what? There's so many different types of bread. So then I looked up at the culinary school, you know, in my area and I went and did a bread, breads and muffins, of course. It's just what I'm trying to say.

What's your favorite type of bread to make though, is the real question.

I like to make like a traditional dinner roll.

Nice, man.

I made them for the, we had a time skipping.

Let's see.

You know this is a big debate. Some people don't need rolls and Thanksgiving, like my family doesn't give a shit about rolls. I, all I want is almost to give us the sandwiches.

Yes, correct.

I'll turn anything over.

I feel, and it's a huge love of stuff. (mumbles)

So we're back to the tip is--

Never stop learning, never stop learning. Hey, just, no matter what it is, whatever it excites you, whatever, you know, whatever. I kind of find this strong passion that just comes out of nowhere, just kind of--

Which can be many different things. (mumbles)

Oh man, thank you for coming on. I'm so glad we got to meet today.

Yeah.

Our day is about to broadcast it in, man.

Thanks a lot.

Thank you very much.

Cheers. (mellow music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)

Thanks for listening past the music. As I mentioned, I'll be having some new music on the show pretty soon. It's gonna be happening. Don't worry, it's going on. Really, if you like Steven, just buckle up. There's gonna be a lot of cool stuff coming on from our Cryptocier platform, which is officially launching in January. That's the business that Jennifer Soudini and Michael Phillip and I are starting. That's gonna be really cool. We're looking for some live events and speaking things in the city too that should be coming up. So stay tuned for that if you're in the area. What else we got going on, nothing really.

I just wanna say thank you to everyone who's reached out over the past few weeks. I've gotten more emails from this podcast over the past two, three weeks than I've ever gotten before. I'm getting like 20 emails a week from people interested in cryptocurrency and the kind of nexus point of cryptocurrency and consciousness. Please keep them coming. I love talking about this stuff. I'm here to help you in whatever way I can. I can't promise I can help you but that's why I'm doing this. So that's it and I will see you next week.